NationStates Jolt Archive

Many people on here have expressed that they are against welfare programs. I was just wondering how many people on here know people who rely on welfare programs and if so how many.

I'm on welfare, and I'll say this: $275 a month in food stamps isn't nearly enough for three people who are over 150lbs each. $350 might be enough.

I'm on welfare, and I'll say this: $275 a month in food stamps isn't nearly enough for three people who are over 150lbs each. $350 might be enough.

So you expect the Government to supply you with "everything" you need, when on welfare?

None of you are in any condition to provide for yourselves what-so-ever?

Sincerely,
Gaar

We don't have a welfare program, despite the left wing government.

We don't have a welfare program, despite the left wing government.

Would you supportit if you had it?

None. Mostly because I think it's rude to question others about their finances.

George W. Bush is the world's biggest welfare recepient, yet acts like he earned every single thing that's been handed out to him through history.

The Yale Admission (And he got a C in Business Management or so I heard,) the Air National Guard dodge... er deferment from Vietnam, three businesses which he bankrupted, the state of Texas, and even the White House were all handouts to Bush from various sources.

And yet he wants to cut off financial and welfare aid to people who truly need them- and are not as Republicans like to fantasize, lazy greedy parasites.

Only in America, can a hyprocrite label his opponent a flip-flopper and then do the exact same things with the country's blessing.

I get SSI because I have Cerebral Palsy.

I get SSI because I have Cerebral Palsy.

I'm sorry to hear that. My brother has it too.

So you expect the Government to supply you with "everything" you need, when on welfare?

None of you are in any condition to provide for yourselves what-so-ever?

Sincerely,
Gaar

You must think I'm a very gullible, spoiled person. I want to work. The fact is, my dad needs me and my brother to take care of him (he takes almost twenty different prescription medications EVERY DAY).

I find it funny that you still seem to think that all unfortunate people bring it upon themselves.

I got lucky its not that bad for me, I just walk a little funny and I get leg pains if I am on my legs too much.

I know multiple people recieving various kinds of assistance. Most recieve SSI. Some receive other benefits as well.

I have relatives who have been on SSI and SSDI.

(And I spent 3 years working for an attorney who specialized in Social Security disability cases. Heartbreaking what the system puts people through. Especially the cases where the clear policy is to try to delay granting benefits in hope the applicant dies. Sorry, but I'm on edge tonight.)

I got lucky its not that bad for me, I just walk a little funny and I get leg pains if I am on my legs too much.

I'm glad it is not as bad as it could be, but you still have my sympathy.

Hmm.

I have known people who were on welfare. Most of them were, in fact, lazy and predicated their world view upon information recieved from the Oprah show - or somesuch.

None of them were 'friends' however.

(And I spent 3 years working for an attorney who specialized in Social Security disability cases. Heartbreaking what the system puts people through. Especially the cases where the clear policy is to try to delay granting benefits in hope the applicant dies. Sorry, but I'm on edge tonight.)

:confused:

My mother was on welfare for a while when I was young. We were very poor. Living paycheck to paycheck wasn't as much an issue as meal to meal.
I remember not being able to go out and play in some of the neighborhoods I grew up in. In order to receive the necessary amount to pay expenses of raising children and taking care of oneself, you would couldn't be working. But at that same time, once you started working, you'd immediately lose the grant. The problem is that there is always a significant lag time between gaining a job and then becomming self sufficient. In order to get off the system she had to cheat the system by taking the welfare payments while getting paid for the job. After that she was able to become self-sufficient again.

The problem is that the current welfare system doesn't assist in any way of getting oneself out of welfare. The problem is that the system needs to be structured in a way to make it easier to become employed and make oneself economically self-sufficient.

He's correct, Laca. The Human Resources center in Harris County denies disability and welfare to over 70% of the people who apply for it. And almost 100% of that 70% really do need the money.

Me, for starters; well, up until 6 months ago. My father divorced my mother when I was less than one year old; he had been cheating on her for a few years, had become an alcoholic and had been abusing cocaine. They had three children together.

My mother had no job skills and no education beyond a high school diploma; she had been a house wife, pure and simple, and her parents had not permitted her to go to college. Then she suddenly found herself alone, without anyone to support her and and her three kids and no way to get a decent job.

We all ended up on welfare. My mother worked in shitty jobs until she finally landed a job in a printing company doing low-skilled graphic design. She always had a talent for art; she made some dolls for some friends for Christmas, someone saw them and paid her to make one for her. Today she makes $35,000+ a year as a dollmaker and craftswoman; she owns her own business and does all the work on her own.

We needed welfare. We got it. It helped. And our lives are better for it.

As for my father, his back was permenantly injured after a truck accident; he was a trucker, I should add. He is on permenant disability; he lives his life in pain, constantly on morphine. He has no one to care for him anymore. Without disability, he'd be dead in the gutter; and despite what he's done to me and my family, I don't believe he deserves that.

So that's 5 people I know, and all needed and deserved it.

My mother was on welfare for a while when I was young. We were very poor. Living paycheck to paycheck wasn't as much an issue as meal to meal.
I remember not being able to go out and play in some of the neighborhoods I grew up in. In order to receive the necessary amount to pay expenses of raising children and taking care of oneself, you would couldn't be working. But at that same time, once you started working, you'd immediately lose the grant. The problem is that there is always a significant lag time between gaining a job and then becomming self sufficient. In order to get off the system she had to cheat the system by taking the welfare payments while getting paid for the job. After that she was able to become self-sufficient again.

The problem is that the current welfare system doesn't assist in any way of getting oneself out of welfare. The problem is that the system needs to be structured in a way to make it easier to become employed and make oneself economically self-sufficient.

That is a good point there are certain programs that have very strict guidelines. Some programs only allow people within a rigid income guideline. Others, may disqualify people pending the entire employment situation of those living under the same roof. For these reasons, sometimes teenagers are not allowed to work without risking the loss of their parent's government assistance. Others give the illusion that people on programs are getting a ton of money because they may be making far more than other program participants are but are still recieveing assistance.

0 at the moment. but the way things are going i'll be on the fare soon. :(

He's correct, Laca. The Human Resources center in Harris County denies disability and welfare to over 70% of the people who apply for it. And almost 100% of that 70% really do need the money.

On the other hand, I live in Wisconsin and the Food Stamps program here is so lax, it's disgusting. There is a cut we could be making. The money in that program here is not getting to whom it should so we may as well cut some of its funding.

The irony of me receiving SSI benefits is my brother is very against any type of welfare, Well without SSI benefits that my mom got for me when I was baby we would of been living on the streets. I guess he would of rather lived on the streets. :rolleyes:

The irony of me receiving SSI benefits is my brother is very against any type of welfare, Well without SSI benefits that my mom got for me when I was baby we would of been living on the streets. I guess he would of rather lived on the streets. :rolleyes:

Yeah. That is very ironic. I think a lot of people who are against it are lacking knowledge. It is a good thing and it has NOTHING to do with how much money the government decides to spend on it. That is not going to solve any problems. The problems lie within the case workers who assign assistance to people. There are HUGE flaws within it.

On the other hand, I live in Wisconsin and the Food Stamps program here is so lax, it's disgusting. There is a cut we could be making. The money in that program here is not getting to whom it should so we may as well cut some of its funding.


I know what you mean :( My neighbor is a lazy pig, and he is getting food stamps, just for sitting on his worthless, low life ass :mad: I want to take a bat to him. But then he get his wish with disability :mad:..Heh, they need reforms NOW! We look like the Soviet Union with who gets Food Stamps :( I hope something gets done soon.

On the other hand, I live in Wisconsin and the Food Stamps program here is so lax, it's disgusting. There is a cut we could be making. The money in that program here is not getting to whom it should so we may as well cut some of its funding.

That's why every social program needs to be operated by a centralized government. Of course, it would have to be tailored for specific states (population issues, mainly).

Hmm.

I have known people who were on welfare. Most of them were, in fact, lazy and predicated their world view upon information recieved from the Oprah show - or somesuch.

None of them were 'friends' however.

I was a welfare case worker for 8 years in Texas (1988 - 1994), and since then I have continued to work in social work (work in placing people into job training and job placement programs). My girlfriend is on SSI (bipolar), her son is also on SSI (bipolar, asbergers and cerebral palsey, although the last two are mercifully mild). Plus she has two other children. The father of those children is disabled as well due to a genetic condition that showed up late in life but still works as best he can and pays what child support he can. My girlfriend is unable to work for any length of time. In addition, my exwife was on welfare for a short time (before she and I got together) while she went to training and now is a corporate Vice President of a large mortgage company.

Its supposed to be TEMPORARY Assistance to Needy Families (TANF) instead of welfare.

Over the years about one third of the people I have dealt with professionally who receive either TANF or Food Stamps (FS) or Medicaid have been disabled or caring for those who are disabled. Another third were working, but usually not earning enough to make it above the poverty level and their medicaid and food stamps made all of the difference for their children. A lot of times they worked but the absent parent wasn't sending the child support required (if at all). Only about one third of the people I have met were not working or disabled, and I would guess about half of those were on it for a short time (usually because of a divorce or death of a spouse, or somebody got laid off, or disabled for a short time)... enough for financial catastrophe basically.

All of the people above are what the programs were created for ... I studied the Policies back in college (in the 80s, I am an old fart) and remember when a lot of it was passed. Its supposed to be a leg up for a short time (relatively speaking).

So in other words, only about 1/6th of the people I have worked with who got welfare would even remotely fall into the "lazy" category so many critics seem to lump all welfare reciepients into. Thats what the Welfare to Work Program, and 2 year time limit is supposed to fix. It worked somewhat, as a lot fewer people are on it now than used to be.

In the years I have worked, only a few (maybe 10% or less) were what you would call the multigenerational receipients.... and fewere of those people are in the system now.

So when you make assumptions about people getting food stamps or welfare, remember all of this. Most likely the person getting it needs it, and if you knew the circumstances, you probably wouldn't pregrudge them the relatively small amount of aid they are receiving.

By the way, another reason the Food stamp program was created, and why it is under the jurisdiction of the US Department of Agriculture, was to create an additional market for basic foodstuffs like milk, wheat, cheese etc.. the original program is basically part of the US farm subsidy program (in disguise).

Welfare payments have been around since the late 1800s... generally they were pensions to Widows and orphans (it was cheaper than opening more homes for children)

The amount of welfare a person gets varies a lot from state to state.. basically there is a Federal minimum amount (which is under $200 for a parent and one child), and to this a state may choose to add additional money.

Welfare payments and Food Stamps are only about 1/3 of the total costs of the Human Services budgets though (state, federal and county)... nearly all of the rest is Medicaid premiums, Nursing Home care, and direct payments to medical providers.

And its climbing fast.

Yeah. That is very ironic. I think a lot of people who are against it are lacking knowledge. It is a good thing and it has NOTHING to do with how much money the government decides to spend on it. That is not going to solve any problems. The problems lie within the case workers who assign assistance to people. There are HUGE flaws within it.

Most of the caseworkers in Harris County are greasy bastards who'd probably like to gas every poor person they talk to. This one guy, Mr. Spittler, never bathes, hardly washes his clothes, and talks down to everyone he meets. And, if you so much as talk back to him in a way he thinks isn't friendly, he drops you.

He's correct, Laca. The Human Resources center in Harris County denies disability and welfare to over 70% of the people who apply for it. And almost 100% of that 70% really do need the money.

in an amusing coincedence, I worked for Texas Department of Human Services in Harris County....I am in California now though. Texas does not have State Disability Insurance, and the Welfare payment for an adult with one child when I left Welfare Casework in 1994 was a massive $158 a month, plus Mediciad, and about $300 a month Food Stamps on top of that, plus IF THEY COULD GET A PLACE IN THE PUBLIC HOUSING WAITING LIST, they could also get an apartment for about $40 a month.

Not very much at all. Texas at that time was 49th in the Nation in how much it paid out per case.

I was a welfare case worker for 8 years in Texas (1988 - 1994), and since then I have continued to work in social work (work in placing people into job training and job placement programs). My girlfriend is on SSI (bipolar), her son is also on SSI (bipolar, asbergers and cerebral palsey, although the last two are mercifully mild). Plus she has two other children. The father of those children is disabled as well due to a genetic condition that showed up late in life but still works as best he can and pays what child support he can. My girlfriend is unable to work for any length of time. In addition, my exwife was on welfare for a short time (before she and I got together) while she went to training and now is a corporate Vice President of a large mortgage company.

Its supposed to be TEMPORARY Assistance to Needy Families (TANF) instead of welfare.

Over the years about one third of the people I have dealt with professionally who receive either TANF or Food Stamps (FS) or Medicaid have been disabled or caring for those who are disabled. Another third were working, but usually not earning enough to make it above the poverty level and their medicaid and food stamps made all of the difference for their children. A lot of times they worked but the absent parent wasn't sending the child support required (if at all). Only about one third of the people I have met were not working or disabled, and I would guess about half of those were on it for a short time (usually because of a divorce or death of a spouse, or somebody got laid off, or disabled for a short time)... enough for financial catastrophe basically.

All of the people above are what the programs were created for ... I studied the Policies back in college (in the 80s, I am an old fart) and remember when a lot of it was passed. Its supposed to be a leg up for a short time (relatively speaking).

So in other words, only about 1/6th of the people I have worked with who got welfare would even remotely fall into the "lazy" category so many critics seem to lump all welfare reciepients into. Thats what the Welfare to Work Program, and 2 year time limit is supposed to fix. It worked somewhat, as a lot fewer people are on it now than used to be.

In the years I have worked, only a few (maybe 10% or less) were what you would call the multigenerational receipients.... and fewere of those people are in the system now.

So when you make assumptions about people getting food stamps or welfare, remember all of this. Most likely the person getting it needs it, and if you knew the circumstances, you probably wouldn't pregrudge them the relatively small amount of aid they are receiving.

By the way, another reason the Food stamp program was created, and why it is under the jurisdiction of the US Department of Agriculture, was to create an additional market for basic foodstuffs like milk, wheat, cheese etc.. the original program is basically part of the US farm subsidy program (in disguise).

Welfare payments have been around since the late 1800s... generally they were pensions to Widows and orphans (it was cheaper than opening more homes for children)

The amount of welfare a person gets varies a lot from state to state.. basically there is a Federal minimum amount (which is under $200 for a parent and one child), and to this a state may choose to add additional money.

Welfare payments and Food Stamps are only about 1/3 of the total costs of the Human Services budgets though (state, federal and county)... nearly all of the rest is Medicaid premiums, Nursing Home care, and direct payments to medical providers.

And its climbing fast.

Well, I used to do uncontested divorces for battered women as part of a pro-bono program. I guess I must have put several hundred through the mill before I finally became disgusted with the whole affair. Naturally, all of them were on welfare; and naturally all of the spouses were as well. They were also typically in their early twenties.

The whole lot of them, without exception, were idle workshy spongers. And most of them fabricated the battery claims to get a cheap divorce as well.

But the thing that really ticked me off was the sense of entitlement.

I won't address the fact that I know many sucessfull people with bi-polar disorder.

in an amusing coincedence, I worked for Texas Department of Human Services in Harris County....I am in California now though. Texas does not have State Disability Insurance, and the Welfare payment for an adult with one child when I left Welfare Casework in 1994 was a massive $158 a month, plus Mediciad, and about $300 a month Food Stamps on top of that, plus IF THEY COULD GET A PLACE IN THE PUBLIC HOUSING WAITING LIST, they could also get an apartment for about $40 a month.

Not very much at all. Texas at that time was 49th in the Nation in how much it paid out per case.

My brother, who's 20, is 6'1" and 205lbs. My dad, who's 55 this year, is 5'8" and 220lbs. I'm 17, almost 5'10", and weigh 158lbs. We get a total of $275 a month in food stamps.

The money runs out two weeks before the end of each month. Even a week before that, we have to start rationing the money.

Most of the caseworkers in Harris County are greasy bastards who'd probably like to gas every poor person they talk to. This one guy, Mr. Spittler, never bathes, hardly washes his clothes, and talks down to everyone he meets. And, if you so much as talk back to him in a way he thinks isn't friendly, he drops you.

back when I worked in Harris County, if a worker behaved like that, than most likely a coworker would report them to a supervisor, and the person they had to deal with certainly could do so. Texas didn't pay much, but we were supposed to treat everyone like people.

But I believe I heard that the State of Texas no longer directly operates the program, so I don't know what its like now.

back when I worked in Harris County, if a worker behaved like that, than most likely a coworker would report them to a supervisor, and the person they had to deal with certainly could do so. Texas didn't pay much, but we were supposed to treat everyone like people.

But I believe I heard that the State of Texas no longer directly operates the program, so I don't know what its like now.

I feel sorry for the people who have to deal with that Spittler bastard (he used to be our caseworker, but thankfully, he's not any longer). I've seen him yell at pregnant women who hardly have enough money to feed their kids, and he's turned down families of six just because he wanted to.

My brother, who's 20, is 6'1" and 205lbs. My dad, who's 55 this year, is 5'8" and 220lbs. I'm 17, almost 5'10", and weigh 158lbs. We get a total of $275 a month in food stamps.

The money runs out two weeks before the end of each month. Even a week before that, we have to start rationing the money.

Food Stamps are not based on how much food is required on an individual basis, but as an average for a household of that number (national wide average). They are also not supposed to make up the entire food budget for a household that gets them (thats the way the policy was created and that is the way it is still codified under the law). They are supposed to provide an extra cushion is all, and thats about all they will do. Benefit amounts are directly controlled by Congress, and increases are generally very small proportionally from year to year.

So it isn't Harris County that is being unkind, but the way the national policy that governs the program was set up.

You must think I'm a very gullible, spoiled person. I want to work. The fact is, my dad needs me and my brother to take care of him (he takes almost twenty different prescription medications EVERY DAY).

I find it funny that you still seem to think that all unfortunate people bring it upon themselves.

Did I say that unfortunate people bring it on themselves?

I am sorry to hear about your Father, my Father has been having problems also of late and I have been helping my sister attend to him. I know it isn't easy...

I can also sympathize with coming from modest means but have no tolerance for people who believe they are owed a living. I myself pick up a couple of his Bills while my sister has helped him with his Home, by buying it from him and making the payments herself so he doesn't have that as a living expense. He is living on a limited income and can't afford many things unless he is helped by those who love him.

And might I add...

That instead of sitting around in my 20's and wondering why I had it so bad, I went out and made something of my life, so that I could be in a better position to help those I loved as well as others.

I started a Charity in my mid 20's for stopping Child Abuse, having been abused myself by a step-father. In my early 30's I helped set up Computer Labs in the High School near where I worked in Bellevue.

So please, I really could do without the lectures on how bad it is and how no one ever helps...

I am sorry that may be the case in the situation you are living in, but it can't be all bad if you have a PC, Internet connection and the time to spend here posting.

I do hope things improve for you however, and might I suggest looking into local food Banks and Churches and the like, you can generally get a few of the staples of your groceries there and spread the food stamps out just a bit more. They usually had tons of cheese there, and it wasn't at all bad.

Sincerely,
Gaar

Food Stamps are not based on how food is required, and are not supposed to make up the entire food budget for a household that gets them (thats the way the policy was created and that is the way it is still codified under the law). They are supposed to provide an extra cushion is all, and thats about all they will do. Benefit amounts are directly controlled by Congress, and increases are generally very small proportionally from year to year.

So it isn't Harris County that is being unkind, but the way the national policy that governs the program was set up.

That's just fucked up, because my dad can't even stand for ten minutes without having severe pain. There's no way he could possibly work to supplement the food stamps we get.

And the really twisted thing is that they drop the amount of food stamps you get if you make even the slightest amount of money.

I know what you mean :( My neighbor is a lazy pig, and he is getting food stamps, just for sitting on his worthless, low life ass :mad: I want to take a bat to him. But then he get his wish with disability :mad:..Heh, they need reforms NOW! We look like the Soviet Union with who gets Food Stamps :( I hope something gets done soon.

Federal policy is that any able bodied adult getting Food Stamps must show proof of job search activity in order to recieve them for longer than a month unless exempt because of disability. You also aren't allowed to get them if you are a student unless you are in a short term vocational program.

If he is getting them, he is disabled, the local agency isn't doing its job, or he job searching. The average welfare worker has a caseload of about 100 to 150 cases though, so anything is possible.

:confused:

Is that a question?

This was a few years ago and I don't do that kind of work anymore, but here is how it works.

1. To recieve either Social Security Disability (SSD) or Supplemental Security Income (SSI), you must be disabled, as defined for those programs. The definition of disability under Social Security is different than other programs. Social Security pays only for total disability. No benefits are payable for partial disability or for short-term disability.

Disability under Social Security is based on your inability to work. The Social Security Administration (SSA) considers you disabled under Social Security rules if you cannot do work that you did before and the SSA decides that you cannot adjust to other work because of your medical condition(s). Your disability must also last or be expected to last for at least one year or to result in death.

There are lots more details about the criteria, but I would go into them here.

2. Social Security Disability Insurance pays benefits to you and certain members of your family if you are "insured" meaning that you worked long enough and paid Social Security taxes.

3. Supplemental Security Income pays benefits based on financial need.

4. The application process involves many steps, each of which can delay the process by many months -- sometimes more than a year.

1. Initial application. Response will be many months later. 60.6% are denied (in 2001). Applicant can give up, refile and start over, or request reconsideration.

2. Reconsideration. Response will be many months later. 88.2% denied (in 2001). Applicant can give up, refile and start over, or appeal.

3. Appeal. Many months later a hearing date will be set. Usually 30 days notice of hearing. Hearings usually last less that 1 hour. An Administrative Law Judge presides and hears testimony from the applicant, an appointed medical advisor (who hasn't examined the applicant), and an employment advisor. Many months later the applicant will learn the decision of the ALJ. In 2001, 77% at the ALJ level are approved.

(If the ALJ denies, there is one more appellate step within SSA. And then the applicant can file a lawsuit in federal court. Many years of delay.)

Overall, about 48% of applications are approved. But many require the years of delay to reach the ALJ level to suceed. It has been well-documented that the SSA has a policy of limiting approvals at the levels lower than the ALJ.

Of course, the applicant must be disabled this entire time. (If not, their application is rejected on that ground.) Many applicants are dying. Some die -- from conditions that qualify for benefits -- before they ever get approval. (In which case, no benefits.) Other applicants give up before hiring representation for a hearing. It is a deliberate, cynical winnoing process.

That is probably way more information than you wanted and more than enough rant.

That's just fucked up, because my dad can't even stand for ten minutes without having severe pain. There's no way he could possibly work to supplement the food stamps we get.

And the really twisted thing is that they drop the amount of food stamps you get if you make even the slightest amount of money.

I wish I could disagree with you, but you are right. All income is counted against Food Stamps.

In some states he would qualify for State Disability insurance (which as an employee you pay into when working and only get when you aren't working)... Texas doesnt have that. He could apply for Social Security Disability, but that is an extremely difficult process, takes anywhere from 3 - 6 months (if successful) and most people are still turned down (for various reasons) when they apply for it.

Pfff, my dad wouldn't be caught dead at a food bank. Don't ask why...

It's not all bad, but it would be a lot better if the government wasn't fucking us over.

I know what you're saying about going out and improving your life. But we have to stay at home and take care of our dad all day long, so any current plans for "improvement" are void.

Though things are looking better. We invested $3,000 from a bank account my dad had from his insurance days in a penny stock, and it's expected to reach a dollar soon (17,000,000 shares at a dollar per share equals $17,000,000). That would definately help us (or anyone, for that matter!).

However, I simply will not stop hating corrupt programs. I never will.

I wish I could disagree with you, but you are right. All income is counted against Food Stamps.

In some states he would qualify for State Disability insurance (which as an employee you pay into when working and only get when you aren't working)... Texas doesnt have that. He could apply for Social Security Disability, but that is an extremely difficult process, takes anywhere from 3 - 6 months (if successful) and most people are still turned down (for various reasons) when they apply for it.

He did apply for Social Security Disability. The judge appointed a doctor to examine him, and the doctor said that he definitely needed the disability. The papers were filled out, forms were signed, and things were looking to go up. Wrong. The judge didn't even review the doctor's papers. He threw the case out the window for no reason whatsoever.

Is that a question?

This was a few years ago and I don't do that kind of work anymore, but here is how it works.

1. To recieve either Social Security Disability (SSD) or Supplemental Security Income (SSI), you must be disabled, as defined for those programs. The definition of disability under Social Security is different than other programs. Social Security pays only for total disability. No benefits are payable for partial disability or for short-term disability.

Disability under Social Security is based on your inability to work. The Social Security Administration (SSA) considers you disabled under Social Security rules if you cannot do work that you did before and the SSA decides that you cannot adjust to other work because of your medical condition(s). Your disability must also last or be expected to last for at least one year or to result in death.

There are lots more details about the criteria, but I would go into them here.

2. Social Security Disability Insurance pays benefits to you and certain members of your family if you are "insured" meaning that you worked long enough and paid Social Security taxes.

3. Supplemental Security Income pays benefits based on financial need.

4. The application process involves many steps, each of which can delay the process by many months -- sometimes more than a year.

1. Initial application. Response will be many months later. 60.6% are denied (in 2001). Applicant can give up, refile and start over, or request reconsideration.

2. Reconsideration. Response will be many months later. 88.2% denied (in 2001). Applicant can give up, refile and start over, or appeal.

3. Appeal. Many months later a hearing date will be set. Usually 30 days notice of hearing. Hearings usually last less that 1 hour. An Administrative Law Judge presides and hears testimony from the applicant, an appointed medical advisor (who hasn't examined the applicant), and an employment advisor. Many months later the applicant will learn the decision of the ALJ. In 2001, 77% at the ALJ level are approved.

(If the ALJ denies, there is one more appellate step within SSA. And then the applicant can file a lawsuit in federal court. Many years of delay.)

Overall, about 48% of applications are approved. But many require the years of delay to reach the ALJ level to suceed. It has been well-documented that the SSA has a policy of limiting approvals at the levels lower than the ALJ.

Of course, the applicant must be disabled this entire time. (If not, their application is rejected on that ground.) Many applicants are dying. Some die -- from conditions that qualify for benefits -- before they ever get approval. (In which case, no benefits.) Other applicants give up before hiring representation for a hearing. It is a deliberate, cynical winnoing process.

That is probably way more information than you wanted and more than enough rant.the denial rate is probably higher now too. That would be my guess based on my experience dealing with people who have applied and not based on stats though. To get SSI you must have a permanent disability that prevents you from working AND either prevents you from doing or severely impacts a major life activity. You can only get SSI for five years before the case is completely reviewed (which requires updated medical checks for one thing), RSDI (Retirees, Survivors and Disability Insurance) or what most people think of when they think about Social Security is similarly hard to get.

SSI is considered welfare and those who get it get Medicaid as well (full medical insurance)

RSDI is considered a form of retirement and those who get it get Medicare (not as good medical insurance but do get a bigger check)

Pfff, my dad wouldn't be caught dead at a food bank. Don't ask why...

One of you can't go for the family?

It's not all bad, but it would be a lot better if the government wasn't fucking us over.

While I dislike the behavior with which some have treated you in trying to obtain the assistance you deserve, to say they are f'n you over isn't quite the case, is it?

I know what you're saying about going out and improving your life. But we have to stay at home and take care of our dad all day long, so any current plans for "improvement" are void.

One can't stay while another goes out and works even part time a couple of days a week?

Though things are looking better. We invested $3,000 from a bank account my dad had from his insurance days in a penny stock, and it's expected to reach a dollar soon (17,000,000 shares at a dollar per share equals $17,000,000). That would definately help us (or anyone, for that matter!).

However, I simply will not stop hating corrupt programs. I never will.

There ya go, now yer talkin'!

That's what I have been doing for the past few years, you can make some decent money in the Stock Market if you know how!

What stock are you guys looking at, I am always up for a "tip"... :D

Sincerely,
Gaar

There ya go, now yer talkin'!

That's what I have been doing for the past few years, you can make some decent money in the Stock Market if you know how!

What stock are you guys looking at, I am always up for a "tip"... :D

Sincerely,
Gaar

The stock is the reason we're not doing anything (and, if one of us starts work, the Human Resources Center will cut our food stamps again). The stock in particular is CMKX, a diamond mining company.

We're riding on it, and hoping it pays out...

He did apply for Social Security Disability. The judge appointed a doctor to examine him, and the doctor said that he definitely needed the disability. The papers were filled out, forms were signed, and things were looking to go up. Wrong. The judge didn't even review the doctor's papers. He threw the case out the window for no reason whatsoever.

This may be presumptuous and is based on limited facts, but I would highly recommend finding a good lawyer specializing in SSD claims.

Most applications are rejected at the first stage, and the second stage, but most are approved at the ALJ stage. I'm not clear if your father's application made it all the way to a hearing.

Worst case, he can apply again.

Nationally, good counsel are -- eventually --successful in 80-90% of cases. The attorney I worked for had about a 95% sucess rate -- and, during the 3 years I worked for him, we never lost an application. Although we had to take at least one that had been going on for years to the federal courts.

Most counsel will give an initial interview and some advice for free.

I don't remember exactly how it works, but the attorney fees are set up by statute. The attorney only gets paid if you get benefits and fees are only collected on the back end. The attorney gets 25% of the back benefits up to a certain limit set by law.

Back benefits can be sought back to the point at which it was proven your father was disabled, up to one year before his application was filed.

This may be presumptuous and is based on limited facts, but I would highly recommend finding a good lawyer specializing in SSD claims.

Most applications are rejected at the first stage, and the second stage, but most are approved at the ALJ stage. I'm not clear if your father's application made it all the way to a hearing.

Worst case, he can apply again.

Nationally, good counsel are -- eventually --successful in 80-90% of cases. The attorney I worked for had about a 95% sucess rate -- and, during the 3 years I worked for him, we never lost an application. Although we had to take at least one that had been going on for years to the federal courts.

Most counsel will give an initial interview and some advice for free.

I don't remember exactly how it works, but the attorney fees are set up by statute. The attorney only gets paid if you get benefits and fees are only collected on the back end. The attorney gets 25% of the back benefits up to a certain limit set by law.

Back benefits can be sought back to the point at which it was proven your father was disabled, up to one year before his application was filed.

Most cities and towns also have free resources to help you with in filing a claim. Most claims are rejected because the paperwork wasn't filled out correctly. I don't remember now who handles it in Texas (it has been over 11 years since I lived in Houston after all) but I would suggest talking to the people who run the Homeless Shelter in your area, they will know the resources available. You can also check with the Salvation Army, Catholic Charities, and as said above, you can reapply. As many times as it takes.

I get SSI because I have Cerebral Palsy.


SSI is not a welfare system. Just a note.

Is that a question?

This was a few years ago and I don't do that kind of work anymore, but here is how it works.

1. To recieve either Social Security Disability (SSD) or Supplemental Security Income (SSI), you must be disabled, as defined for those programs. The definition of disability under Social Security is different than other programs. Social Security pays only for total disability. No benefits are payable for partial disability or for short-term disability.

Disability under Social Security is based on your inability to work. The Social Security Administration (SSA) considers you disabled under Social Security rules if you cannot do work that you did before and the SSA decides that you cannot adjust to other work because of your medical condition(s). Your disability must also last or be expected to last for at least one year or to result in death.

There are lots more details about the criteria, but I would go into them here.

2. Social Security Disability Insurance pays benefits to you and certain members of your family if you are "insured" meaning that you worked long enough and paid Social Security taxes.

3. Supplemental Security Income pays benefits based on financial need.

4. The application process involves many steps, each of which can delay the process by many months -- sometimes more than a year.

1. Initial application. Response will be many months later. 60.6% are denied (in 2001). Applicant can give up, refile and start over, or request reconsideration.

2. Reconsideration. Response will be many months later. 88.2% denied (in 2001). Applicant can give up, refile and start over, or appeal.

3. Appeal. Many months later a hearing date will be set. Usually 30 days notice of hearing. Hearings usually last less that 1 hour. An Administrative Law Judge presides and hears testimony from the applicant, an appointed medical advisor (who hasn't examined the applicant), and an employment advisor. Many months later the applicant will learn the decision of the ALJ. In 2001, 77% at the ALJ level are approved.

(If the ALJ denies, there is one more appellate step within SSA. And then the applicant can file a lawsuit in federal court. Many years of delay.)

Overall, about 48% of applications are approved. But many require the years of delay to reach the ALJ level to suceed. It has been well-documented that the SSA has a policy of limiting approvals at the levels lower than the ALJ.

Of course, the applicant must be disabled this entire time. (If not, their application is rejected on that ground.) Many applicants are dying. Some die -- from conditions that qualify for benefits -- before they ever get approval. (In which case, no benefits.) Other applicants give up before hiring representation for a hearing. It is a deliberate, cynical winnoing process.

That is probably way more information than you wanted and more than enough rant.


Actually, I was confused as to why someone as intelligent as you was doing SSI work. (and I really mean that).

I would also note, that many people undeservedly slip through the net at item 1. (my ex's father for example). But perhaps things have tightened up since the 80's.

Most cities and towns also have free resources to help you with in filing a claim. Most claims are rejected because the paperwork wasn't filled out correctly. I don't remember now who handles it in Texas (it has been over 11 years since I lived in Houston after all) but I would suggest talking to the people who run the Homeless Shelter in your area, they will know the resources available. You can also check with the Salvation Army, Catholic Charities, and as said above, you can reapply. As many times as it takes.

Agreed. (And I agreed with your comments on my other post).

It depends somewhat on the basis of you father's claim. Usually, we advised people to handle the first stages of the application -- i.e., the original application and request for reconsideration themselves. We did provide some free advice and helpful material. If a claim was particularly urgent and clear cut (such as someone dying from a brain injury), we might assist earlier in order to see that approval was reached as early as possible. But unless the case fits such circumstances, no need to have the attorney fees come out of the initial award until you get to the hearing stage when an attorney is practically essential.

Anyway, I hope some of this helps. I feel for you.

I'm on Youth Allowance, but after reading the other posts in this thread, I don't think that's what you mean.

The first thing I'd like to adress is to Lacadaemon. bipolar disorder varies greatly in severity. It also varies greatly in how effective medication is.

I get disability for bipolar disorder. I sometimes can work for a couple of months, but then crash again. When you go through 4 or 5 part time jobs a year, it eventually becomes impossible to get hired anywhere. In spite of this I limped along for six years on part time unskilled work, getting no benefits at all, except for low cost medication. After being hospitilized eight times in one year I filed for disability. In order to qualify for SSDI you must have been totally unable to work for six months. I spent part of this time, three months, homeless. That's a hell of a lot of crap to put up with to dodge work. I'm not that lazy.

My SSDI, which is based on previous work history and amount made, is too high to qualify me for SSI. I get some food stamps. I also get Medicaid, since Medicare doesn't cover prescriptions and they cost more than I make per month. I used to get Section 8, but I now have roommates, so I don't need it. My roommate pays for the internet connection. I bought my computer in 1995. It's a slow MF. My disability claim was granted the first time. I also have fibromyalgia, lupus and severe arthritis in my right wrist, moderate arthritis in my hips and right knee.

My mother and two of my aunts recieve SSDI. My mother is in end stage renal failure. She's on dialysis three times a week, has had two heart attacks and a stroke in the last six months. She has severe arthritis and can barely walk to the bathroom on her own. She used to clerk for the Department of Agriculture.
One aunt, who is only eight years my senior, has severe epilepsy. She has anywhere from five seizures a week to five a day. She is now having experimental brain surgery in hope she'll be able to work again. If they can't slow down the seizures, she may suffer irreversible brain damage. She used to be a speech pathologist.
Another aunt started having strokes in her late thirties. She used to be an English teacher. She has lost 90% of her vision and can barely walk. She can't find her way around her own house.

Since I've spent so much time in the hospital and at low cost mental health clinics, I know plenty of people who are in need of these services. I know some people that cheat on welfare, but mostly because it's not possible to make it otherwise. I know very few people who are just not motivated to work. (Admittedly one of these people is my own cousin) But it's a long way from the norm.

Actually, I was confused as to why someone as intelligent as you was doing SSI work. (and I really mean that).

I would also note, that many people undeservedly slip through the net at item 1. (my ex's father for example). But perhaps things have tightened up since the 80's.

Well I can't speak for him, but I work in the field because I have a calling to do so, I am good at it, and I help a lot of people who need it. Probably the same reason he did.

SSI is not a welfare system. Just a note.

technically it is considered Welfare under the Federal Legislation that funds it

its not the same as RSDI (see previous posts for details)

Yes, SSI is welfare. SSDI may not be, but SSI is supplemental and income dependent.

I lied earlier I dont know if I am getting it yet (I just turned 18) and I have an appointment April 1st to determine if I will get SSI benefits and how much. But it did go to my mom when I was a minor.

That's why every social program needs to be operated by a centralized government. Of course, it would have to be tailored for specific states (population issues, mainly).
Because, of course, centralization would stop waste and inefficiency. In all probability centralization would make things worse.

Because, of course, centralization would stop waste and inefficiency. In all probability centralization would make things worse.

I believe most Charities have to give at least 80% to their "recipient" in order to be a non-Profit...

How many Government Programs do you believe are 80% efficient at getting the resources to those they serve?

I believe the private sector would be more efficient, hands down.

U.S. citizens are more likely to get the accountability they demand for their Charitable contributions from the private sector than from the Government, don’t ya think?

Regards,
Gaar

None. It doesn't exist here.

Oh now that I think of it, my cousin in Melbourne's on welfare. She got sacked recently. I think she should be getting a job soon.

I know more than 4-5 people on welfare, but that's because I work at a grocery store. Some people just plain out don't deserve it. If you can afford a dozen necklaces and rings on every finger and pull out a wad of twenties from your pocket, while being on welfare, you are likely a drug dealer. You don't need to leech off of welfare as well. Furthermore, when they ask I use the cash side of the food stamp card (the side where the state provides money for taxable stuff like toilet paper) and ask me to get them a carton of cigarettes, I get annoyed. Some people justly deserve food stamps...some people give everyone else a bad rep.

I know countless people on SSI - which is not welfare. Even my parents are on ssi. Living in a retirement community just about everyone receives a check.

I've known people in public housing, foodstamps and welfare. They all used it apropriately. It was a brief need while they got back on their feet. They did not need it for one year, let alone years. The current system of workplace training and limited benefits is an excellent idea with spectacular results.

Poverty is supposed to suck, if it didn't then nobody would ever try to escape it.

The USA has a disproportionatly high number of people who move from poverty to middle class, and middle class to wealthy. The studies which show a growing poverty rate are based on a flawed presumption - a static population. They do not consider immigration - which tends to be the poor moving (or sneaking) here for financial opportunity - which they find at a rate that is faster than the rate people immigrate at. The US has the highest immigration rate in the world for a reason...

My brother, who's 20, is 6'1" and 205lbs. My dad, who's 55 this year, is 5'8" and 220lbs. I'm 17, almost 5'10", and weigh 158lbs. We get a total of $275 a month in food stamps.

The money runs out two weeks before the end of each month. Even a week before that, we have to start rationing the money.

Dont take this the wrong way, but why dont either you or your brother work? I dont know what disability your father has but I doubt it requires TWO people to take care of him full time. You could continue to collect welfare but at least 1 person would be earning additional money and developing the work skills needed to get a high paying job later in life.

I think what strikes me as so hilarious is that all of the same people who have made ignorant comments about the lazy poor and would deny something basic as food to a family simply because they do not make $100,000 per year are the exact same people who jump in the Terry Schiavo threads and bitch about her being denied food, even though she is the most famous welfare recipient in the country - Medicaid.

Ah well ... I guess these are also the same people who would try to bring a sandwich to a woman who can't swallow.

I think what strikes me as so hilarious is that all of the same people who have made ignorant comments about the lazy poor and would deny something basic as food to a family simply because they do not make $100,000 per year are the exact same people who jump in the Terry Schiavo threads and bitch about her being denied food, even though she is the most famous welfare recipient in the country - Medicaid.

Ah well ... I guess these are also the same people who would try to bring a sandwich to a woman who can't swallow.

Oh, Keruvalia, how can I not love you? I wondered that myself. :)

I know multiple people recieving various kinds of assistance. Most recieve SSI. Some receive other benefits as well.

I have relatives who have been on SSI and SSDI.

(And I spent 3 years working for an attorney who specialized in Social Security disability cases. Heartbreaking what the system puts people through. Especially the cases where the clear policy is to try to delay granting benefits in hope the applicant dies. Sorry, but I'm on edge tonight.)

While my ex and I were still married, he had several heart attacks and ended up with quadruple heart bypass. As he is diabetic, the arteries that were transplanted weren't in much better shape than the ones they replaced. His cardiologist gave him less than 9 months to live. He applied for his social security disability and was denied. They suggested that he was able to return to his job...driving a truck cross-country. Upon appeal, the SS administration put the case on hold for a year to see if his condition improved. :rolleyes: He and I worked together on his diet and his overall physical fitness. He walked and walked and walked... When the transplanted arteries eventually failed, he had built up enough collateral circulation that the new and improved blood vessels were able to carry the blood flow. After 3 years he was finally granted his social security benefits. That was 13 years ago, he's now 68 and diabetes and other ailments are taking their toll, but he still gets out to walk and play a few holes of golf a few times a week.

I know countless people on SSI - which is not welfare. Even my parents are on ssi. Living in a retirement community just about everyone receives a check.

*snip*

:headbang:

Try to follow along.

SSI -- Suplemental Security Income -- is not Social Security retirement benefits. From the Social Security Administration website (http://www.ssa.gov/disability/):

The Social Security and Supplemental Security Income disability programs are the largest of several Federal programs that provide assistance to people with disabilities. While these two programs are different in many ways, both are administered by the Social Security Administration and only individuals who have a disability and meet medical criteria may qualify for benefits under either program.

Social Security Disability Insurance pays benefits to you and certain members of your family if you are "insured" meaning that you worked long enough and paid Social Security taxes.

Supplemental Security Income pays benefits based on financial need.

Unlike Social Security retirement benefits, SSDI and SSI are not based on age. They are based on disability. You can get SSI if you are over 65, but only if you have limited income.

Unlike Social Security retirement and SSDI, SSI is not based on the amount of Social Security taxes one has paid. SSI is based on financial need. Among other things, an individual may be able to get SSI if his/her income is no more than about $666/month and his/her resources are worth no more than $2,000. A couple may be able to get SSI if they have an income of no more than about $973/month and have resources worth no more than $3,000.

Welfare generally means government assistance based on financial need.

If your parents receive SSI, they are either (a) disabled or over 65 and (b) have limited income and resources.

SSI = welfare.

QED.

Oh, Keruvalia, how can I not love you? I wondered that myself. :)

I like to think of myself as one of the last surviving champions for common sense in the United States.

I like to think of myself as one of the last surviving champions for common sense in the United States.

Well I hope I can live up to that.

Though things are looking better. We invested $3,000 from a bank account my dad had from his insurance days in a penny stock, and it's expected to reach a dollar soon (17,000,000 shares at a dollar per share equals $17,000,000). That would definately help us (or anyone, for that matter!).



I wish you the best of luck with your investment, it sounds like it would really make a difference in your life.

No ones likes the bearer of bad news, but I feel obligated to point out the following(I used to a stock broker for a bit and I am still in the business)

1) Penny stocks are not investments, they are gambles.
2) This stock trades on the pink sheets so its hard to get a real current price, but yahoo is showing this company to be trading at around 1/100 of a penny. Looks like it was run up to 1/10 of a penny a while back(jul 04).
3)By run up I mean a classic pump and dump.(Broker corners a significant portion of the float and then runs the stock and dumps it on unsuspecting people.
4)Because it is traded on the sheets, the broker can pretty much make up whatever price he wants. Thats why your average price is around 17.5 cents.

I hope I am mistaken and this company finds diamonds and debeers come around and buys them out.

You have some recourse however.

Given your situation, there is no way you should have been qualified to trade in penny stocks in this manor. You just dont pass the suitability requirements and it was un ethical for the broker to have put you in this position. Do you remember your brokers name and the company he worked for? If you do, you can look up his record on the NASD Broker check site and check for any past or pending actions against him. http://pdpi.nasdr.com/PDPI/

Its best to take action sooner than later because of these firms close down and re open under a different name.

Best of luck

Well I hope I can live up to that.

Oh it's very simple! It takes only a few simple steps:

1. Stop. This is essential. If you fail to do this step, the rest of it will break down and you will fail. The proverbial "moment of pause" is key to common sense.

2. Listen. That's right. You don't know everything about anything. I mean *anything*. There is nothing in this world that you have 100% knowledge about, including yourself. If you cannot accept this, then you're not fit for civilised society.

3. Think. Not a difficult thing, really. Take your time, breathe deeply, and call into your mind every bit of knowledge and experience you have on the topic at hand. If you have none, then either ask questions or move on to another topic. The more you practice thinking, the faster you get at it.

4. Think again. Is there anything you left out? Perhaps. We all leave little gaps here and there, but it's ok. As long as you've done steps 1 and 2 properly, then you'll be ok in any discussion. However, double checking your work is always important. This is quality assurance.

5. Speak. This should always be the last step. Unfortunately, 9 times out of 10, this is the only step people take. It's what makes the internet so amusing and sad at the same time.

All that for free! :D

I know countless people on SSI - which is not welfare. Even my parents are on ssi. Living in a retirement community just about everyone receives a check.

I've known people in public housing, foodstamps and welfare. They all used it apropriately. It was a brief need while they got back on their feet. They did not need it for one year, let alone years. The current system of workplace training and limited benefits is an excellent idea with spectacular results.

Poverty is supposed to suck, if it didn't then nobody would ever try to escape it.

The USA has a disproportionatly high number of people who move from poverty to middle class, and middle class to wealthy. The studies which show a growing poverty rate are based on a flawed presumption - a static population. They do not consider immigration - which tends to be the poor moving (or sneaking) here for financial opportunity - which they find at a rate that is faster than the rate people immigrate at. The US has the highest immigration rate in the world for a reason...

It is also based upon INCOME and doesnt take into account govt BENEFITS/PROGRAMS.

This is just stupid. Income is a very poor measure. Income doesnt account for so many things, like someone who is living on his savings until he finds another job. Or people who have started a business and will be losing money in the begining but planned for this by putting enough money aside. Or simply people who have retired but own their own homes(no mortgage), poverty level income is more than enough to pay for basic bills then. Spending would be a much better indicator of poverty levels.

Oh it's very simple! It takes only a few simple steps:

1. Stop. This is essential. If you fail to do this step, the rest of it will break down and you will fail. The proverbial "moment of pause" is key to common sense.

2. Listen. That's right. You don't know everything about anything. I mean *anything*. There is nothing in this world that you have 100% knowledge about, including yourself. If you cannot accept this, then you're not fit for civilised society.

3. Think. Not a difficult thing, really. Take your time, breathe deeply, and call into your mind every bit of knowledge and experience you have on the topic at hand. If you have none, then either ask questions or move on to another topic. The more you practice thinking, the faster you get at it.

4. Think again. Is there anything you left out? Perhaps. We all leave little gaps here and there, but it's ok. As long as you've done steps 1 and 2 properly, then you'll be ok in any discussion. However, double checking your work is always important. This is quality assurance.

5. Speak. This should always be the last step. Unfortunately, 9 times out of 10, this is the only step people take. It's what makes the internet so amusing and sad at the same time.

All that for free! :D

Wow. You could make a movie out of that. Like Tony Robinson. Lol.

Or simply people who have retired but own their own homes(no mortgage), poverty level income is more than enough to pay for basic bills then. Spending would be a much better indicator of poverty levels.

Hrmmm ... ok ... just wanted to address this real quick.

Let's take a family of 5. The reason I say a family of 5 is because, well, I belong to one.

We own our home ... no mortgage. Fine.

Breakdown of our basic monthly expenses (things needed, rather than wanted):

1. Landline telephone - $35
2. Cellular - $40 (yes, this is a necessity for emergencies, etc)
3. Electricity - $130 (based on 12 month average)
4. Vehicle fuel - $280 (yes, that is accurate, based on 6 month average)
5. Food Groceries (not eating out) - $575 (based on 8 month average)
6. Non-Food Groceries (toiletries, etc) - $250 (based on 6 month average)
7. Medical Care - $185 (based on 12 month average, and we're damn lucky since we're uninsured)
8. Water/Sewer/Trash collection - $35
9. Clothing (for kids for school) - $100 (we're lucky because I sew)
10. General home maintenance - $75
11. General vehicle maintenance - $60

Monthly total: $1,765.00
Annual total: $21,180.00
2005 Federal Poverty Level for family of 5 - $22,610.00
(Source (http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/05poverty.shtml))

The amount I would be able to save for any bigger medical emergencies, vehicle breakdown, potential funeral expenses, natural disaster, terrorist attack (very unlikely, but hey), angry neighbor attack, or general smiting by Allah: $1,430.00 per year.

Yeah ... poverty must rock like no other. I'd also like to point out that if I made poverty level income, I would not be able to have afforded my house as my monthly mortgage payments would have put me deep in the red.

Would you supportit if you had it?

No. I moved from a country that has an excessive welfare program to one that has none. By choice.

It is also based upon INCOME and doesnt take into account govt BENEFITS/PROGRAMS.

This is just stupid. Income is a very poor measure. Income doesnt account for so many things, like someone who is living on his savings until he finds another job. Or people who have started a business and will be losing money in the begining but planned for this by putting enough money aside. Or simply people who have retired but own their own homes(no mortgage), poverty level income is more than enough to pay for basic bills then. Spending would be a much better indicator of poverty levels.

Expenses have nothing to do with it. People above the poverty line can spend realtively small amounts of money. As well as people below it. Savings should be counted as income. That's my opinion. I also do not believe that people who own their own houses should be disqualified from welafre programs of any kind.

I know about poverty first hand since I was raised in poverty (not so much anymore) and I live in an area where most people are living in poverty. I wish some people could have been in my shoes before and I'm then they would have a change of heart.

Expenses have nothing to do with it. People above the poverty line can spend realtively small amounts of money. As well as people below it. Savings should be counted as income. That's my opinion. I also do not believe that people who own their own houses should be disqualified from welafre programs of any kind.

I wasnt making any statement on who should or should not be qualified to receive welfare or ssi food stamps ect. I was addressing how poverty was assessed. Meaning how the country figures out how many people are poor.

For this measure income is an absurd statistic because I would be counted as poor today though I have a live in cook/houseboy and driver(granted I dont live in the US anymore).

For that matter, I would have been counted as poor in 2002 because I lost money to the market overall. It didnt change my lifestyle though, I still had a sports car and a garage by my apartment and one by work because I refused to take the public transport system anymore(Manhatten, NYC). The parking alone was over $800 per month, dont ask about the apt, yet I was technically below the poverty line that year.

Hrmmm ... ok ... just wanted to address this real quick.

Let's take a family of 5. The reason I say a family of 5 is because, well, I belong to one.

We own our home ... no mortgage. Fine.

Breakdown of our basic monthly expenses (things needed, rather than wanted):

1. Landline telephone - $35
2. Cellular - $40 (yes, this is a necessity for emergencies, etc)
3. Electricity - $130 (based on 12 month average)
4. Vehicle fuel - $280 (yes, that is accurate, based on 6 month average)
5. Food Groceries (not eating out) - $575 (based on 8 month average)
6. Non-Food Groceries (toiletries, etc) - $250 (based on 6 month average)
7. Medical Care - $185 (based on 12 month average, and we're damn lucky since we're uninsured)
8. Water/Sewer/Trash collection - $35
9. Clothing (for kids for school) - $100 (we're lucky because I sew)
10. General home maintenance - $75
11. General vehicle maintenance - $60

Monthly total: $1,765.00
Annual total: $21,180.00
2005 Federal Poverty Level for family of 5 - $22,610.00
(Source (http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/05poverty.shtml))

The amount I would be able to save for any bigger medical emergencies, vehicle breakdown, potential funeral expenses, natural disaster, terrorist attack (very unlikely, but hey), angry neighbor attack, or general smiting by Allah: $1,430.00 per year.

Yeah ... poverty must rock like no other. I'd also like to point out that if I made poverty level income, I would not be able to have afforded my house as my monthly mortgage payments would have put me deep in the red.

I dont understand your point at all. Who is saying poverty rocks? I am saying that your expenses in your state given that you own your own home look incredible differant from someone in another state with different expenses who might not own their own home. But people who talk about poverty dont take this into account.

Would you say you are more or less poor by the fact that you own your own home(no mortgage)? I think people who have to pay a mortgage vs people who have already paid it off are in significantly worse shape. Yet that is not accounted for. Nor are savings accounted for. Nor are some lifestyle choices accointed for(example: some people might offset their grocery bills by hunting 1-2 deer a year). Or, in more rural areas, maybe they raise some animals or grow their own food(or parts thereof). Yet this isnt accounted for in poverty descriptions. This is the point I am trying to make.

A man who has a small family only farm is not in the same boat as one who has to pay grocery store prices. Yet, the govt views them as one and the same with regards to poverty. It views them the same because it loks only at income rather than lifestyle/spending.

:headbang:

Try to follow along.

SSI -- Suplemental Security Income -- is not Social Security retirement benefits. From the Social Security Administration website (http://www.ssa.gov/disability/):

The Social Security and Supplemental Security Income disability programs are the largest of several Federal programs that provide assistance to people with disabilities. While these two programs are different in many ways, both are administered by the Social Security Administration and only individuals who have a disability and meet medical criteria may qualify for benefits under either program.

Social Security Disability Insurance pays benefits to you and certain members of your family if you are "insured" meaning that you worked long enough and paid Social Security taxes.

Supplemental Security Income pays benefits based on financial need.

Unlike Social Security retirement benefits, SSDI and SSI are not based on age. They are based on disability. You can get SSI if you are over 65, but only if you have limited income.

Unlike Social Security retirement and SSDI, SSI is not based on the amount of Social Security taxes one has paid. SSI is based on financial need. Among other things, an individual may be able to get SSI if his/her income is no more than about $666/month and his/her resources are worth no more than $2,000. A couple may be able to get SSI if they have an income of no more than about $973/month and have resources worth no more than $3,000.

Welfare generally means government assistance based on financial need.

If your parents receive SSI, they are either (a) disabled or over 65 and (b) have limited income and resources.

SSI = welfare.

QED.
I abbreviated Social Security Income. I try to do that since typing is dificult w a nerve injury to my left hand. It is an easy enough miscommunication on your part. ssi isn't the same as AFDC imho - though they are often lumped together. http://www.law.cornell.edu/topics/welfare.html

Many people on here have expressed that they are against welfare programs. I was just wondering how many people on here know people who rely on welfare programs and if so how many.
With one exception, all of the people I have ever known who were on welfare came off within a relatively short period of time. The exception was someone who was dying of cancer, had three children, and whose husband had left her.

I wouldn't cast judgement on anyone else here as I have no idea what their personal situation is.
I can only speak for my own experiences. I was raised by my Grandmother under less-than-wealthy circumstances. We had a strictly fixed income each month, and did fine by sacrificing what we didn't need. I wore clothes from the 70's and early 80's all through Elementary. Never knew what it was like to have Nike's or brand name clothes of any kind (unless you really consider used "Member's Only" items brand-name technically :D ).

My brother and I didn't sweat it, and neither did our peers, although it gave us all a lot of laughs. We were the "Garage-Sale Gang".

Dinner was low-class Mac N' Cheese, hot dogs, etc.. Going out to eat meant McDonalds. We didn't mind this either.
Thank god I had this experience. I made less than $8k/yr for 5 years during coolege and while starting my own business. I was extremely thin, eating a meal a day and saving anything I could toward my future goals.
I knew what sacrificing was all about already, and knew exactly how to make lemonade with my lemons. My Grandmother was raised by non-English speaking immigrants during the depression, so I had a great teacher when it came to doing without.

I've worked at everything from ditch-digging to telemarketing to meet bills during college and biz startup. I worked with men and women who were doing this everyday who had the most God-awful disablities you can imagine, psychological and physical.
But they had one asset: Their pride.

Last year I cleared 6 figures, and now I mostly make my money from passive streams of income I've built, and sold a partnership last week for 5 figures.
This is coming from a guy who dropped out of high school and college.

Some of the people here, I've gotta wonder:
What the hell makes you so special that you deserve to do better than I did, on everyone else's paycheck? Honestly, why can't you work @ a shitty job, get a shitty trailer, and live on one meal a day like I did for years?

Unless you're literally writhing in pain, or so mentally screwed you're utterly delusional, you're better off than many Americans who are in the workforce. That's a fact. There are many people working that have much worse situations then you. How do you think they should look at you, respectfully and with pity?

Save small children, sounds to me like a lot of people are just spoiled, entitlement-deluded, excuse-laden leeches who don't know how to do without.

Notice I'm not talking about those with severe disabilities. In a civilized society, they should be helped. But I'm afraid that, by the standards I've placed on myself in the past, most individuals on welfare don't deserve it.

I abbreviated Social Security Income. I try to do that since typing is dificult w a nerve injury to my left hand. It is an easy enough miscommunication on your part. ssi isn't the same as AFDC imho - though they are often lumped together. http://www.law.cornell.edu/topics/welfare.html

I am sorry about your hand. You have my sympathy.

But your response still confuses the issue.

There is no federal program known as "Social Security Income."

SSI is a common government-used abbreviation for Supplemental Security Income.

Your cite correctly identifies SSI - Supplemental Security Income -- as a welfare program.

The entire discussion here referring to SSI was clearly labled discussing Supplemental Security Income.

So, do you mean by "SSI" to refer to Social Security retirement benefits? You are correct that is not a welfare program per se. It is a social safety net. An important one. (And you have a whole thread on this elsewhere so you need not re-debate it here.)

SSDI is also a safety net. An essential one.

Supplemental Security Income is a welfare program. And a damn good one.

I wouldn't cast judgement on anyone else here as I have no idea what their personal situation is.
I can only speak for my own experiences. I was raised by my Grandmother under less-than-wealthy circumstances. We had a strictly fixed income each month, and did fine by sacrificing what we didn't need. I wore clothes from the 70's and early 80's all through Elementary. Never knew what it was like to have Nike's or brand name clothes of any kind (unless you really consider used "Member's Only" items brand-name technically :D ).

My brother and I didn't sweat it, and neither did our peers, although it gave us all a lot of laughs. We were the "Garage-Sale Gang".

Dinner was low-class Mac N' Cheese, hot dogs, etc.. Going out to eat meant McDonalds. We didn't mind this either.
Thank god I had this experience. I made less than $8k/yr for 5 years during coolege and while starting my own business. I was extremely thin, eating a meal a day and saving anything I could toward my future goals.
I knew what sacrificing was all about already, and knew exactly how to make lemonade with my lemons. My Grandmother was raised by non-English speaking immigrants during the depression, so I had a great teacher when it came to doing without.

I've worked at everything from ditch-digging to telemarketing to meet bills during college and biz startup. I worked with men and women who were doing this everyday who had the most God-awful disablities you can imagine, psychological and physical.
But they had one asset: Their pride.

Last year I cleared 6 figures, and now I mostly make my money from passive streams of income I've built, and sold a partnership last week for 5 figures.
This is coming from a guy who dropped out of high school and college.

Some of the people here, I've gotta wonder:
What the hell makes you so special that you deserve to do better than I did, on everyone else's paycheck? Honestly, why can't you work @ a shitty job, get a shitty trailer, and live on one meal a day like I did for years?

Unless you're literally writhing in pain, or so mentally screwed you're utterly delusional, you're better off than many Americans who are in the workforce. That's a fact. There are many people working that have much worse situations then you. How do you think they should look at you, respectfully and with pity?

Save small children, sounds to me like a lot of people are just spoiled, entitlement-deluded, excuse-laden leeches who don't know how to do without.

Notice I'm not talking about those with severe disabilities. In a civilized society, they should be helped. But I'm afraid that, by the standards I've placed on myself in the past, most individuals on welfare don't deserve it.
*Applauds and cheers*

I wouldn't cast judgement on anyone else here as I have no idea what their personal situation is.

*snip*

Some of the people here, I've gotta wonder:
What the hell makes you so special that you deserve to do better than I did, on everyone else's paycheck? Honestly, why can't you work @ a shitty job, get a shitty trailer, and live on one meal a day like I did for years?

Unless you're literally writhing in pain, or so mentally screwed you're utterly delusional, you're better off than many Americans who are in the workforce. That's a fact. There are many people working that have much worse situations then you. How do you think they should look at you, respectfully and with pity?

Save small children, sounds to me like a lot of people are just spoiled, entitlement-deluded, excuse-laden leeches who don't know how to do without.

Notice I'm not talking about those with severe disabilities. In a civilized society, they should be helped. But I'm afraid that, by the standards I've placed on myself in the past, most individuals on welfare don't deserve it.

Said you wouldn't pass judgment and then rushed to do exactly that. Nice

I'm glad you already admit to being an arrogant prick.

Said you wouldn't pass judgment and then rushed to do exactly that. Nice

I'm glad you already admit to being an arrogant prick.
Woah! How is he being an "arrogant prick???" :(

Some here are saying why don't people get a shitty job and build their
'future' that way. That's just fine, unless it's imbossible to find a job.
I don't know about any other country then Finland. So I'm telling the situation
in Finland. Country of 5 million, over 200000 people without a work. That's
9,2% of the working population. Currently I know one person on welfare - my mom. But I've met them
before so I have some idea how they think of the system. Everyone of them
wanted to get jobs - but no hope. Low education and old age(40+) isn't
something employees look for. The money you get from govt(here in finland)
is some what higher than avarage in world. But getting just what you need
isn't really living. We have things good here, but the system could use some
new ideas.

Said you wouldn't pass judgment and then rushed to do exactly that. Nice

I'm glad you already admit to being an arrogant prick.
Sounds like you're passing judgement, not me. I'm just hearing sob stories and amounts of money that make me wonder... are you too stupid that you don't know how to survive on $20 of groceries a week? I could do fine with half that (and have).

You didn't respond to my post at all, or answer any of the questions concerning entitlement. Like a typical lawyer, you spun the issue.

Why do you have such a problem posting on topic?

Oh, and by "here", I meant America, douchebag.

Woah! How is he being an "arrogant prick???" :(
Poppy, that's coming from a lawyer.

And I'm so not joking. :rolleyes:

So you expect the Government to supply you with "everything" you need, when on welfare?

None of you are in any condition to provide for yourselves what-so-ever?

Sincerely,
Gaar
No offense, but I hope you die a lonely death without a penny to your name in a homeless shelter, that should teach you a lesson.

And that also goes to anyone else who thinks people deserve what they get and all poor people deserve to be poor and shouldn't be helped.

PS. I find it amusing that many of the people that think like this claim to be "Christians."

No offense, but I hope you die a lonely death without a penny to your name in a homeless shelter, that should teach you a lesson.

And that also goes to anyone else who thinks people deserve what they get and all poor people deserve to be poor and shouldn't be helped.

PS. I find it amusing that many of the people that think like this claim to be "Christians."
And I find it disgusting that you feel the need to place the blame for everything you see as wrong with the world on Christians. Talk about bigots! :(

Poppy, that's coming from a lawyer.

And I'm so not joking. :rolleyes:
I don't know many lawyers who have had to actually struggle to survive from day to day. Hard to empathize when you've never had to suffer I suppose.

I have nothing but admiration for those who work their way out of poverty or deprivation. Not everyone can do it, but some who could just plain won't. :(

Woah! How is he being an "arrogant prick???" :(

Oh, maybe the part about "sounds to me like a lot of people are just spoiled, entitlement-deluded, excuse-laden leeches who don't know how to do without."

And, in another thread, he bragged about being an arrogant prick. Hence my careful choice of words.

Sounds like you're passing judgement, not me. I'm just hearing sob stories and amounts of money that make me wonder... are you too stupid that you don't know how to survive on $20 of groceries a week? I could do fine with half that (and have).

You didn't respond to my post at all, or answer any of the questions concerning entitlement. Like a typical lawyer, you spun the issue.

Why do you have such a problem posting on topic?

Oh, and by "here", I meant America, douchbag.

I've been on topic. You are the one who decided your life story entitled you to bash others who've been on here.

You raised no substance whatsover or raised any questions that weren't purely rhetorical.

I'm a lawyer. Deal with it. I'm not ashamed to represent people who need help. (And some high-paying corporations that don't. :D ) As such, I'm familar with overblown, unsupported rhetoric and lack of relevance. AKA, bullshit. And your little rant was full of it.

And, BTW, I have also worked digging ditches, as a ranch hand, as a telemarketer, as a janitor, etc. It doesn't make me morally superior. Nor does it make you. Similarly, I now earn 6 figures. Again makes neither of us morally superior.

If you want to talk about whether we need welfare, fine. I am sure you can contribute something worthwhile.

But attacking the character of those who receive assistance -- particularly those NSers who have explained there situations here -- is out of line. You only make clear your lack of decency.

But attacking the character of those who receive assistance -- particularly those NSers who have explained there situations here -- is out of line. You only make clear your lack of decency.
Congratulations! You're now one out of three people on all of NS who've made my ignore list!
I'm not going to be able to see your posts anymore, so you're free to excersize your pussy-tactics as you please, behind my back and without my knowing it.
I've spent too many unproductive posts back-and-forth with you in pissing contests, and unlike you, I'm not a liar... err, lawyer who enjoys that as a passtime. Day after day. Post after post.

Save it for the courtroom, which I'm beginning to suspect you don't see often enough.

In the future, why don't you try less to prosyletize from your liberal ivory tower, and speak from your own viewpoint and experience.

Congratulations! You're now one out of three people on all of NS who've made my ignore list!
I'm not going to be able to see your posts anymore, so you're free to excersize your pussy-tactics as you please, behind my back and without my knowing it.
I've spent too many unproductive posts back-and-forth with you in pissing contests, and unlike you, I'm not a liar... err, lawyer who enjoys that as a passtime. Day after day. Post after post.

Save it for the courtroom, which I'm beginning to suspect you don't see often enough.

In the future, why don't you try less to prosyletize from your liberal ivory tower, and speak from your own viewpoint and experience.

Typical response of somebody who's losing an argument. Well, somebody with anger management problems. You were in fact the one who was pissing on his face, when he was the one giving information on the subject. If anything, he should put you on his ignore list.

Typical response of somebody who's losing an argument. Well, somebody with anger management problems. You were in fact the one who was pissing on his face, when he was the one giving information on the subject. If anything, he should put you on his ignore list.
I have mixed feelings about this guy.

I have mixed feelings about this guy.

I used to think that he was a decent person. It's beginning to look like he's just a typical Republican drone. That, or he's got bipolar disorder.

Woah! How is he being an "arrogant prick???" :(
well, his views are in conflict with cat tribes so he must be an "arrogant prick". [/sarcasm]

I used to think that he was a decent person. It's beginning to look like he's just a typical Republican drone. That, or he's got bipolar disorder.
Hey, don't be comparing bipolar with republican drones! :D

Congratulations! You're now one out of three people on all of NS who've made my ignore list!
*snip*

Fine. I'll cry myself to sleep.

And *sniff* he called me a lawyer again. Like I'd be insulted by my chosen profession.

I almost feel sorry about this, but the insults are a bit hard to swallow.
And there is a history here I won't go into.

well, his views are in conflict with cat tribes so he must be an "arrogant prick". [/sarcasm]

Of course. Anyone who disagrees with this arrogant prick is one. :D

*Applauds and cheers*

I'm a little disappointed in you. Eichen said "Unless you're literally writhing in pain, or so mentally screwed you're utterly delusional..."
I suppose if the government bought my aunt a computer and paid for education and provided transportation, she could learn to work at home. But she doesn't have the money for a computer, is a speech pathologist by training and doesn't know that much about computers. She can't drive and there is no public transportation. Most empoyers don't hire people who have several seizures a day.
And I'm sure my mother will be able to work, she only needs dialysis three days a week. All she needs is a job where she's not required to walk, see or stay awake more than 4-6 hours at a time.

But me, I just prefer not too work. I like not being able to have my teeth worked on, because I like toothaches. The whole idea of being able to get a computer that's less than ten years old turns me off. I was homeless for three months because I was experimenting with alternative lifestyles. I enjoy medication that makes me spacy and apathetic. Think of a time when you were on pain medication and how easy it is to think coherently. I like not taking it even better. That way I can attempt suicide, get thrown in jail, wreck my car and do just everything that might briefly pass through the human mind. :rolleyes:

I know loads on Youth Allowance and Rent Assistance, and my aunt was receiving benefits while she was looking for a job. It was that or not pay rent. Well, ok my parents would have paid her rent, but she wouldn't have liked that.

My grandma back in South Africa gets a pension. I know how hard it can be, even though she's very conscientious with money AND receives an increased pension since her husband worked for the government.

funny thing is that for the first time ever on any forums i suddnly felt like putting at least 3 people on my ignore list...

funny thing is that for the first time ever on any forums i suddnly felt like putting at least 3 people on my ignore list...

I understand completely.