NationStates Jolt Archive

Yesterday, this came out of the vatican:

THE POPE is “serenely abandoning” himself to God’s will, according to a senior Vatican cardinal.

Sorry, Pope... but after your comments about the Schaivo situation - you'd better get a long term rental agreement on a feeding tube and respirator.

No serenity for you!

Stained Glass Windows Keep The Cold Outside
While The Hypocrites Hide Inside
With The Lies Of Statues In Their Minds
Where The Christian Religion Made Them Blind

It's so simple, yet so complex. The Pope's the same as every other hypocrite fucker, and that is no lie.

Yesterday, this came out of the vatican:

THE POPE is “serenely abandoning” himself to God’s will, according to a senior Vatican cardinal.

Sorry, Pope... but after your comments about the Schaivo situation - you'd better get a long term rental agreement on a feeding tube and respirator.

No serenity for you!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1541316,00.html
Senior Roman Catholic sources in London emphasised last night that the comments referred to the Pope’s spiritual rather than physical health, but acknowledged that his health was deteriorating.

So the man knows that his time is running out. I think anyone that age would recognise that.

I still have the deepest respect for Pope John Paul II for all the good that he has done in the world in regards to uniting people and religions. I may not agree with the man on every issue, but I still look upon him as a good man.

Yesterday, this came out of the vatican:

THE POPE is “serenely abandoning” himself to God’s will, according to a senior Vatican cardinal.

Sorry, Pope... but after your comments about the Schaivo situation - you'd better get a long term rental agreement on a feeding tube and respirator.

No serenity for you!

wat did he say about the schiavo case?

wat did he say about the schiavo case?


exactly what all the other religious nutjobs are saying

exactly what all the other religious nutjobs are saying

which is

wat did he say about the schiavo case?

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/22/schiavo.vatican/

They say the procedure amounts to nothing less than a ruthless way to kill a person.

"It is euthanasia," says Javier Lozano, of the Pontiff's Council for Health...

While church officials say they are opposed to keeping a person alive at all costs -- especially if medical intervention prolongs the patient's agony -- the Vatican insists that artificially feeding and hydrating a person in a vegetative state does not constitute aggressive therapy.

A year ago, Pope John Paul II wrote that doctors have a moral duty to preserve life.

"The administration of water and food, even when provided by artificial means, always represents a natural way of preserving life... not a medical procedure."

But because the 41-year-old Schiavo has been pronounced brain damaged, not brain dead, Vatican officials say she must be kept alive.

"The end of life is a question only in the hands of God. This is our belief. It is not something that must be in the hands of politicians or in the hands of physicians... but in the hands of God only," says the Council for Health's Lozano.

Terri Schiavo was raised a Catholic and practiced her faith until the time of her illness. The Pope is her holy guide.

Yesterday, this came out of the vatican:

THE POPE is “serenely abandoning” himself to God’s will, according to a senior Vatican cardinal.

Sorry, Pope... but after your comments about the Schaivo situation - you'd better get a long term rental agreement on a feeding tube and respirator.

No serenity for you!

So because he thinks the girl should live because she is brain damage and he is ill (possibly and probably terminally) that he has no right to do what he is doing. You forget that humans have free will.

So the man knows that his time is running out. I think anyone that age would recognise that.

I still have the deepest respect for Pope John Paul II for all the good that he has done in the world in regards to uniting people and religions. I may not agree with the man on every issue, but I still look upon him as a good man.

You mean like calling same-sex marriage part of an ideology of evil, like talking about how terrible AIDS in Africa is at the same time as condemning contraception, and like being opposed to the ordination of women?

I'm sorry, but to do those things and still be a good man, he'd had to have no talked about relieving debt in the third world, but would have had to commit the majority of the Church's monies to said cause.


"The end of life is a question only in the hands of God. This is our belief. It is not something that must be in the hands of politicians or in the hands of physicians... but in the hands of God only," says the Council for Health's Lozano.

Uhm, sorry, I think the Catholic Church has missed something.

Namely, that if it were God's will she'd have died 15 years ago, because medical intervention contravenes God's will.

Why Schaivo who was only Terry's hsuabnd for three fucking years get's custody of her "descisions" I cannot fathom. OVER HER PARENTS!

I expected the goverment to treat people like furniture but those are her fricking parents. I hope the terrorists win..

And i'm not suprised one bit to see such disrespect towards the pope. But if they starve him to death that does it, i'm getting a gun and putting it towards SOMEBODY'S head. (Most likely Ronal Regan's son.. I hate that guy..)

The moral fiber of this country has degenerated into nothing, so what the hell do I care..

Why Schaivo who was only Terry's hsuabnd for three fucking years get's custody of her "descisions" I cannot fathom. OVER HER PARENTS!

I expected the goverment to treat people like furniture but those are her fricking parents. I hope the terrorists win..

And i'm not suprised one bit to see such disrespect towards the pope. But if they starve him to death that does it, i'm getting a gun and putting it towards SOMEBODY'S head. (Most likely Ronal Regan's son.. I hate that guy..)

The moral fiber of this country has degenerated into nothing, so what the hell do I care..

Johnny? Is that you?

Why Schaivo who was only Terry's hsuabnd for three fucking years get's custody of her "descisions" I cannot fathom. OVER HER PARENTS!

ummm....

that's part of marrige.

it's written in the marrige contract, and you are legally bound to it when you get the marrige lisence.

Yesterday, this came out of the vatican:

THE POPE is “serenely abandoning” himself to God’s will, according to a senior Vatican cardinal.

Sorry, Pope... but after your comments about the Schaivo situation - you'd better get a long term rental agreement on a feeding tube and respirator.

No serenity for you!
Well I have admit this is not what I expected. Although I must appluad you for being able twist this to work. I must agree with you on this case, as rediculous as it is. But hehehe It may be easier for me since Im not at all Christian hehehe. :p

You mean like calling same-sex marriage part of an ideology of evil, like talking about how terrible AIDS in Africa is at the same time as condemning contraception, and like being opposed to the ordination of women?

I'm sorry, but to do those things and still be a good man, he'd had to have no talked about relieving debt in the third world, but would have had to commit the majority of the Church's monies to said cause.

Like I said, I do not agree with him on everything. But he has done much to encourage peace between religions, and was a major proponent to Vatican II, which abolished alot of the dogmatic bullshit that spewed forth beforehand.

I wish he had helped in Africa and worked towards the ordination of women. It looks like that will not occur within his lifetime now. But as a warrior of peace, I respect the man.

Like I said, I do not agree with him on everything. But he has done much to encourage peace between religions, and was a major proponent to Vatican II, which abolished alot of the dogmatic bullshit that spewed forth beforehand.

I wish he had helped in Africa and worked towards the ordination of women. It looks like that will not occur within his lifetime now. But as a warrior of peace, I respect the man.

You're right, he has done some good things, but that doesn't necessarily absolve him of the bad, IMO. I mean the AIDS crises could be significantly alleviated if the Pope said contraception = permissable (Heck it would help other countries with problems as well.).

Does anyone know whos in line to be the next pope yet, a hint even?
I love this papacy stuff.
Munches popcorn happily outside the Vatican.

You're right, he has done some good things, but that doesn't necessarily absolve him of the bad, IMO. I mean the AIDS crises could be significantly alleviated if the Pope said contraception = permissable (Heck it would help other countries with problems as well.).

Unfortunately, it's not going to happen. The only contraceptive they're okay with is abstainence and that's the way it's going to stay.

Unfortunately, it's not going to happen. The only contraceptive they're okay with is abstainence and that's the way it's going to stay.

At least that is until Vatican III, which I'm willing to bet with all the trends we've been seeing is most likely going to happen in our lifetimes.

Things that need to be addressed in Vatican III

-AIDS in Africa and use of contraception and condoms.
-The role of women in the Church
-Homosexuality
-Child abuse

The Pope can do no Wrong!

At least that is until Vatican III, which I'm willing to bet with all the trends we've been seeing is most likely going to happen in our lifetimes.
Things that need to be addressed in Vatican III
-AIDS in Africa and use of contraception and condoms.
-The role of women in the Church
-Homosexuality
-Child abuse

Definitely child abusers inside the Church, the scum should be handed straight over to the police, better to suffer alittle embarressment than hiding them.
Im cool with everything else the Papacy stands on or against, except I think priests should be allowed to marry and have familys.

The Pope can do no Wrong!

Actually, the Pope can do PLENTY wrong...as he is only human.

That's cruel to say. The Pope has every right to die if he so wishes. He has probably expressed his wishes to his chamberlain and his inner circle.

It's so simple, yet so complex. The Pope's the same as every other hypocrite fucker, and that is no lie.
How is JP2 a hypocrite? I disagree with his conservative opinions, but he's consistent, which is more than can be said for many American conservative Christians.

For those that are disrespecting the Pope. Think about if you want your own religion/personal beliefs disrespected. I am not a Catholic and I even find this offensive to do. There are certain people and or things that you don't trash. I am just curious, how do you feel about Mother Theresa?

You mean like calling same-sex marriage part of an ideology of evil, like talking about how terrible AIDS in Africa is at the same time as condemning contraception, and like being opposed to the ordination of women?

I'm sorry, but to do those things and still be a good man, he'd had to have no talked about relieving debt in the third world, but would have had to commit the majority of the Church's monies to said cause.
Yes the Pope's views on contraception and homosexuality are ridiculously outdated and unrealistic. As I said, I don't agree with them.

He is in favour of relieving third world debt. I don't think that he has direct control over church monies, and I doubt that the central Church could afford to subsidise Africa like governments can. But I do know that there are hundreds of Catholic groups working in Africa to improve the lives of the people there. There are thousands more Catholic charities around the world funding their cause.

And i'm not suprised one bit to see such disrespect towards the pope. But if they starve him to death that does it, i'm getting a gun and putting it towards SOMEBODY'S head. (Most likely Ronal Regan's son.. I hate that guy..)

The moral fiber of this country has degenerated into nothing, so what the hell do I care..
Yes, because shooting people in the head is such are moral, decent thing to do. :rolleyes:

Actually, the Pope can do PLENTY wrong...as he is only human.
Actually no he cant!

I am just curious, how do you feel about Mother Theresa?

Since you're curious.... I agree with Chris Hitchens when he wrote:

"MT was not a friend of the poor. She was a friend of poverty. She said that suffering was a gift from God. She spent her life opposing the only known cure for poverty, which is the empowerment of women and the emancipation of them from a livestock version of compulsory reproduction. And she was a friend to the worst of the rich, taking misappropriated money from the atrocious Duvalier family in Haiti (whose rule she praised in return) and from Charles Keating of the Lincoln Savings and Loan. Where did that money, and all the other donations, go? The primitive hospice in Calcutta was as run down when she died as it always had been—she preferred California clinics when she got sick herself—and her order always refused to publish any audit. But we have her own claim that she opened 500 convents in more than a hundred countries, all bearing the name of her own order. Excuse me, but this is modesty and humility?"

Yesterday, this came out of the vatican:

THE POPE is “serenely abandoning” himself to God’s will, according to a senior Vatican cardinal.

Sorry, Pope... but after your comments about the Schaivo situation - you'd better get a long term rental agreement on a feeding tube and respirator.

No serenity for you!
Ignorance is Bliss, ain't it, buddy.

It's not the same situation at all. The pope is elderly, and is ready to meet his maker. He is not being starved to death.

Terry Schiavo was possibly put into her state by her husband who, seven years after she fell ill, and after he got engaged to another woman, suddenly states that she wanted to die, and won't allow an autopsy to determine the cause of her situation.

Uhm, sorry, I think the Catholic Church has missed something.

Namely, that if it were God's will she'd have died 15 years ago, because medical intervention contravenes God's will.

How's that?

You don't believe that Medical Intervention "is" sometimes God's Will?

Why not?

Regards,
Gaar

The Pope isn't asking anyone to kill him...

Since you're curious.... I agree with Chris Hitchens when he wrote:

"MT was not a friend of the poor. She was a friend of poverty. She said that suffering was a gift from God. She spent her life opposing the only known cure for poverty, which is the empowerment of women and the emancipation of them from a livestock version of compulsory reproduction. And she was a friend to the worst of the rich, taking misappropriated money from the atrocious Duvalier family in Haiti (whose rule she praised in return) and from Charles Keating of the Lincoln Savings and Loan. Where did that money, and all the other donations, go? The primitive hospice in Calcutta was as run down when she died as it always had been—she preferred California clinics when she got sick herself—and her order always refused to publish any audit. But we have her own claim that she opened 500 convents in more than a hundred countries, all bearing the name of her own order. Excuse me, but this is modesty and humility?"

Thats real sad...

Why Schaivo who was only Terry's hsuabnd for three fucking years get's custody of her "descisions" I cannot fathom. OVER HER PARENTS!

I expected the goverment to treat people like furniture but those are her fricking parents. I hope the terrorists win..

And i'm not suprised one bit to see such disrespect towards the pope. But if they starve him to death that does it, i'm getting a gun and putting it towards SOMEBODY'S head. (Most likely Ronal Regan's son.. I hate that guy..)

The moral fiber of this country has degenerated into nothing, so what the hell do I care..

Please tell me this is a joke post.

Stained Glass Windows Keep The Cold Outside
While The Hypocrites Hide Inside
With The Lies Of Statues In Their Minds
Where The Christian Religion Made Them Blind

It's so simple, yet so complex. The Pope's the same as every other hypocrite fucker, and that is no lie.
Gee, I wonder how fast this would have been deleted if it refered to say, John Kerry?
:rolleyes:

They say the procedure amounts to nothing less than a ruthless way to kill a person.

"It is euthanasia," says Javier Lozano, of the Pontiff's Council for Health...

While church officials say they are opposed to keeping a person alive at all costs -- especially if medical intervention prolongs the patient's agony -- the Vatican insists that artificially feeding and hydrating a person in a vegetative state does not constitute aggressive therapy.

A year ago, Pope John Paul II wrote that doctors have a moral duty to preserve life.

"The administration of water and food, even when provided by artificial means, always represents a natural way of preserving life... not a medical procedure."

But because the 41-year-old Schiavo has been pronounced brain damaged, not brain dead, Vatican officials say she must be kept alive.

"The end of life is a question only in the hands of God. This is our belief. It is not something that must be in the hands of politicians or in the hands of physicians... but in the hands of God only," says the Council for Health's Lozano.


if you read that quote carefully you will find that the pope has said nothing about the schiavo case. he is too ill.

last year he put out a statement saying that the administration of food and water by machine may be considered a natural way of preserving life. which it may well be.

catholics are expected to live their natural lives. no early departure permitted. but it is not necessary to artificially prolong life if there is no hope of getting better

so the pope is preparing himself for the natural end of his life. as any of us will do if we get the chance to anticipate that we wont live much longer. he is not required to go to all extreme measures to keep himself alive. no one is.

Actually no he cant!


The Pope can be wrong and can sin. He's human. Only God is perfect.

The only time the Pope can't be wrong according to Catholic doctrine is when he is in a period of spiritual revelation, while fulfilling a very long list of required criteria. That's the consept of the infallability of the Pope.

Check a catechism if you don't believe me...
---
Not accepting medication when there is no hope of recovery is not against Catholic teachings. The question in Sciavo's case is whether food and water is medicine. The Pope isn't announcing his intent to fast himself to death.

"they are opposed to keeping a person alive at all costs -- especially if medical intervention prolongs the patient's agony"

Yes the Pope's views on contraception and homosexuality are ridiculously outdated and unrealistic. As I said, I don't agree with them.
They're no more outdated than the idea of democracy. You don't have to be a Catholic. But if you are, you play by their rules.

Hey, who is anyone to say that the Pope should live or die? That's arrogant. I'd say it is between himself and god. Nobody else.

Same for Mrs. Schiavo. But i'd say to god to not make anyone suffer needlessly.

.....this is insane.....terry has not been proven to have said she wanted to die....obviously the pope has.....how is that so hard to fathom?

How's that?

You don't believe that Medical Intervention "is" sometimes God's Will?

Why not?

Regards,
Gaar

Likewise, perhaps stopping nutricion is also God's Will?

Does anyone know whos in line to be the next pope yet, a hint even?
I love this papacy stuff.
Munches popcorn happily outside the Vatican.

I'm applyling right now... Though I don't know if they will accept me. I have to take a tough test and write an essay. How do you spell "prepubescent ass monkey?"

fuckin' pope.

.....this is insane.....terry has not been proven to have said she wanted to die
She can't. She's brain-dead. The entity that was Schaivo is dead. Only a husk remains.

Half of you are just being ridiculous.
1. The Pope can prepare for his own natural death, whenever God wants it to happen.
2. There is no proof Terri Shiavo ever actually said she didn't want to use an artifical food source. So lets not starve the lady to death
3. The Pope's views, in my opinion, are almost all right. Homosexuality is a sin. Irresponsible mothers shouldn't get to kill their kids because they wanted a little somethin. AIDs is a problem in Africa, but that could be helped if they listened to other advice from the Pope.
4. Here is an idea, have one partner in your life, only have sex with that partner, that partner only have sex with you. Now there is no need for condoms to prevent the spread of AIDs. Now we don't use contraceptives and we don't spread disease.

I happen to not by Catholic, I don't approve of the catholic belief that other non-catholic christians will be going to the abyss, but his moral beliefs are right on.

I was just going to say that - Ogalalla - doesnt make sense to blame the pope and call him a bad man for AIDs in africa - abstenence works better then condoms for preventing the spread of AIDs

I was just going to say that - Ogalalla - doesnt make sense to blame the pope and call him a bad man for AIDs in africa - abstenence works better then condoms for preventing the spread of AIDs
It does. If people practice abstinence, and all the data shows that they say they'll be abstinent, then go out and have sex anyways, only without using a condom.

You'd think a man with that amount of faith wouldn't cling to life so needily. Oh well. Plus I don't think I'm gonna touch the Terry Schiavo dilemma with a 40 foot pole.

It does. If people practice abstinence, and all the data shows that they say they'll be abstinent, then go out and have sex anyways, only without using a condom.
So the best way to deal with bulemia is to give them access to laxatives?

Half of you are just being ridiculous.
1. The Pope can prepare for his own natural death, whenever God wants it to happen.
2. There is no proof Terri Shiavo ever actually said she didn't want to use an artifical food source. So lets not starve the lady to death
3. The Pope's views, in my opinion, are almost all right. Homosexuality is a sin. Irresponsible mothers shouldn't get to kill their kids because they wanted a little somethin. AIDs is a problem in Africa, but that could be helped if they listened to other advice from the Pope.
4. Here is an idea, have one partner in your life, only have sex with that partner, that partner only have sex with you. Now there is no need for condoms to prevent the spread of AIDs. Now we don't use contraceptives and we don't spread disease.

I happen to not by Catholic, I don't approve of the catholic belief that other non-catholic christians will be going to the abyss, but his moral beliefs are right on.


I agree completely. I'm not Catholic either but religion, for the most part, supports the moral beliefs that would benefit everyone. Whether you believe in the religion or not, the beliefs they teach, and that the Pope has been preaching, could solve many problems in this world.

So the best way to deal with bulemia is to give them access to laxatives?
What. The. Fuck?! Is this night of the high NS posters or something? You aren't making any sense.

I happen to not by Catholic, I don't approve of the catholic belief that other non-catholic christians will be going to the abyss, but his moral beliefs are right on.

Catholicism is kind of washy on this subject. Sometimes it looks like they hold that anybody who seeks to do the right thing and tries to understand God goes to heaven, sometimes they restrict it to bible-believing christians only (in other words, cutting out Mormons, Christian Scientists, and non-christian religions). I havn't seen anything looking like a condemnation to hell of all noncatholics. I'll try to find an official statement on this....

Watch this space.

EDIT: Can't get much more official than www.vatican.va.

Defining Catholic...
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p123a9p3.htm#III

Catholicism on Heaven and Hell...
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p123a12.htm#II

Especially interesting to note is:

1037 God predestines no one to go to hell;618 for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want "any to perish, but all to come to repentance"

Then you've got the quote of Jesus, from Luke I think: "I am the way, truth, and life; no-one comes to the Father except through me."

Looks to me like to go to hell, one has to willfully renounce God, and to go to heaven, one has to believe in Christ. I'm not sure what happens with the ones in between... Anybody help me out here?

Half of you are just being ridiculous.
1. The Pope can prepare for his own natural death, whenever God wants it to happen.
2. There is no proof Terri Shiavo ever actually said she didn't want to use an artifical food source. So lets not starve the lady to death
3. The Pope's views, in my opinion, are almost all right. Homosexuality is a sin. Irresponsible mothers shouldn't get to kill their kids because they wanted a little somethin. AIDs is a problem in Africa, but that could be helped if they listened to other advice from the Pope.
4. Here is an idea, have one partner in your life, only have sex with that partner, that partner only have sex with you. Now there is no need for condoms to prevent the spread of AIDs. Now we don't use contraceptives and we don't spread disease.

I happen to not by Catholic, I don't approve of the catholic belief that other non-catholic christians will be going to the abyss, but his moral beliefs are right on.


1. Whatever, not gonna bother with this one.
2. There is no proof that Schiavo would want to live in a vegetative state for fifteen years, whilst being nothing more than a burden of false hope to her family.
3. One's religious beliefs should not be pushed upon others. Homosexuality may be a 'sin' to you, but it may be merely a gender-identity to others. Also, don't get started on the abortion crap again. Finally, have you heard the myths in Africa? One in particular has been perpetuated -- men are told that having sex with a virgin will cure them of AIDS. Also, some children are born with AIDS/ HIV. At times, this can lie dormant into adulthood, and even married, monogamous relationships can spread AIDS.
4. I believe I addressed this in #3.

exactly what all the other religious nutjobs are saying
slight problem, the pope can't talk n e more.

Irony Update:


Evidently, the Pope does need a feeding tube.


http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/rssstory.mpl/front/3106365