NationStates Jolt Archive

In the pathetically politically correct world we live in, something has come up gradually though time that's particularly disturbing: the idea that as a minority, you are more deserving that those of the majority.

First of all, I am not a racist, a sexist, or prejudice in any real form. I say real due to certain circumstances involving obesity, but that's not the main focus of this thread.

It seems that in today’s world, minorities of society want to have their cake and eat it too. Women glare at you for not holding the door for them, but yell at you for doing it as well, calling it chauvinistic. Many religions demand that Christian symbols be taken down across the nation, while in the meantime shoving their stars, moons, or pentagrams down your throat. The poor despise the rich, but expect the same people they can’t stand to support them through welfare.

The most horrifying aspect of my argument, however, is in regards to race. I am a true believer in racial equality, and I wish I could prove that if all social stigmas (blacks being more athletic, Asians being better at math, etc.) are thrown aside, and each person is raised similar, all people could be the same. (barring intellect naturally…but that’s just natural selection.) It seems, however, that many minorities do not wish for this same goal. For my example, I shall use the African American minority group.

Black people broadcast the fact that they are indeed black, separating themselves from society, and only fueling the baseless, but very real, racial rage against them. Most of this, as I’ve pointed out, is due to double standards. A “Miss Black America” is standard, but a “Miss White America” would be racist. “Jet Magazine” promotes black culture, but something like “Eggshell Magazine” would simply be a way of discriminating. BET, or Black Entertainment Television, celebrates African’s achievements in film, but if someone dared to make WET, they would be labeled a racist right off the bat.

Why is it that the black minority, and many others, decides to push the fact that they are in fact different, “better” in their views, “worse” in the minds of racists, instead of pushing the fact that they are equal to those around them? Is it all a big misunderstanding? No. Am I just a stupid racist with an uncommon intelligence? Hardly. It is because no ground truly wants equality. Each minority group is put in place to “one-up” the majority it is outnumbered by.

It is only when we cast aside our “black pride” or our “girl power” or our “rights of the working man” that we will truly come together as people, as humans, and not as black or white, male or female, rich or poor, or some other petty dividing factor between us. To put it simply, I’m interested in your response. This isn’t meant to be an essay, more of a rant actually, but it’s meant to inspire debate. Go ahead…post your replies and responses.

Hear Hear! Down with the idiocy that is Political Correctness! Down with the government-sanctioned racism that is Affirmative Action!

When I first saw the thread title, I thought "Wow, I thought Steel Butterfly had too much sense to be all racist and bigoted..."
Luckily, I was entirely wrong in what the thread was about.
Phew, that was a relief there.
It is only when we cast aside our “black pride” or our “girl power” or our “rights of the working man” that we will truly come together as people, as humans, and not as black or white, male or female, rich or poor, or some other petty dividing factor between us.
I agree.

Some people are making a big deal out of a difference in a similar way to what the bigots are doing, and it really doesn't make sense that they are fueling that bigotry in the same breath as decrying it. They are in the same mindset of bigots, the mindset that $RANDOM_GENETIC_FACTOR affects you in some profound way. It doesn't matter that they aren't using this mindset to discriminate others, they are using this mindset while they claim that $RANDOM_GENETIC_FACTOR doesn't matter at all, and that's hypocrisy purely for their own gain, whether or not they see it. Nobody need be proud of being born some way, nobody should get special rights or expect them due to being born some way, and nobody should be oppressed due to being born some way, because in reality, it really shouldn't matter.

Many religions demand that Christian symbols be taken down across the nation, while in the meantime shoving their stars, moons, or pentagrams down your throat.

I have never in my life seen a pentagram displayed in a US goverment building.(that includes public schools)
That is the only place that the Christian sysmbols are being removed from.
And it is mostly the athiest not other religions doing it.
I have never had anyone try to shove stars moons or pentagrams down my throat. But I HAVE BEEN attacked by christians for not being one of them.
I have come to learn that those christians represent a small % of the overall religion.
And I have never had I pagan or muslium or jew or athiest or hindu ect... knock on my door trying to convert me.
I dont have anything against christians I just cant stand it when they try to play the victim because they are not!


O and by the way everything else you said I agree with.

Psh, good luck.
Try this in any RL public area and you will most likely be lynched as a Nazi/Jew/Homophobe/Klansmen or something.

But I do agree with you.

Speaking of which, watch this flash cartoon - www.illwillpress.com

ahmen brother!

I dont have anything against christians I just cant stand it when they try to play the victim because they are not!

I'm not a christian per se (although i was raised Catholic) so I'm not trying to play the victim. Christianity is the majority religion in America and one of the "big three" in the world, thought. That's why I used it.

My complain, granted it I didn't go into it because it really isn't that important, is the fact that we get off school because of "spring break" and not "easter break". Everyone knows why we're getting off school. Why not just say it?

You know I'm actually surprised someone hasn't accused you of being racist or a bigot...I completely agree...The answer is I don't know...Or why is it there can be brown pride or black pride but not white pride? And that is coming for a Mexican. LOL

Psh, good luck.
Try this in any RL public area and you will most likely be lynched as a Nazi/Jew/Homophobe/Klansmen or something.But I do agree with you.

And that right there is the problem with out society. There's too much asskissing and not enough "cold hard truth."

It's because everyone's selfish, and no one gives a shit about anyone else. There ya go. The best thing to do is to try to avoid getting worked up about it all. Give it a few years you'll be an expert at this.

Black people broadcast the fact that they are indeed black, separating themselves from society, and only fueling the baseless, but very real, racial rage against them. Most of this, as I’ve pointed out, is due to double standards. A “Miss Black America” is standard, but a “Miss White America” would be racist. “Jet Magazine” promotes black culture, but something like “Eggshell Magazine” would simply be a way of discriminating. BET, or Black Entertainment Television, celebrates African’s achievements in film, but if someone dared to make WET, they would be labeled a racist right off the bat.

Why is it that the black minority, and many others, decides to push the fact that they are in fact different, “better” in their views, “worse” in the minds of racists, instead of pushing the fact that they are equal to those around them? Is it all a big misunderstanding? No. Am I just a stupid racist with an uncommon intelligence? Hardly. It is because no ground truly wants equality. Each minority group is put in place to “one-up” the majority it is outnumbered by.

It is only when we cast aside our “black pride” or our “girl power” or our “rights of the working man” that we will truly come together as people, as humans, and not as black or white, male or female, rich or poor, or some other petty dividing factor between us. To put it simply, I’m interested in your response. This isn’t meant to be an essay, more of a rant actually, but it’s meant to inspire debate. Go ahead…post your replies and responses.

This I really agree with alot. why does Black power = pride in ones self and race but white power = racist?\

But what really pisses me off is when black americans cry about slavery. Like they where the only slaves in history. Slavery was going on in africa before the europeans ever set foot in america.
Slavery happened world wide and is still going on in Asia. So why does Americas history of a few 100 years of slavery make them cry so much?

In the pathetically politically correct world we live in, something has come up gradually though time that's particularly disturbing: the idea that as a minority, you are more deserving that those of the majority.

First of all, I am not a racist, a sexist, or prejudice in any real form. I say real due to certain circumstances involving obesity, but that's not the main focus of this thread.

It seems that in today’s world, minorities of society want to have their cake and eat it too. Women glare at you for not holding the door for them, but yell at you for doing it as well, calling it chauvinistic. Many religions demand that Christian symbols be taken down across the nation, while in the meantime shoving their stars, moons, or pentagrams down your throat. The poor despise the rich, but expect the same people they can’t stand to support them through welfare.

The most horrifying aspect of my argument, however, is in regards to race. I am a true believer in racial equality, and I wish I could prove that if all social stigmas (blacks being more athletic, Asians being better at math, etc.) are thrown aside, and each person is raised similar, all people could be the same. (barring intellect naturally…but that’s just natural selection.) It seems, however, that many minorities do not wish for this same goal. For my example, I shall use the African American minority group.

Black people broadcast the fact that they are indeed black, separating themselves from society, and only fueling the baseless, but very real, racial rage against them. Most of this, as I’ve pointed out, is due to double standards. A “Miss Black America” is standard, but a “Miss White America” would be racist. “Jet Magazine” promotes black culture, but something like “Eggshell Magazine” would simply be a way of discriminating. BET, or Black Entertainment Television, celebrates African’s achievements in film, but if someone dared to make WET, they would be labeled a racist right off the bat.

Why is it that the black minority, and many others, decides to push the fact that they are in fact different, “better” in their views, “worse” in the minds of racists, instead of pushing the fact that they are equal to those around them? Is it all a big misunderstanding? No. Am I just a stupid racist with an uncommon intelligence? Hardly. It is because no ground truly wants equality. Each minority group is put in place to “one-up” the majority it is outnumbered by.

It is only when we cast aside our “black pride” or our “girl power” or our “rights of the working man” that we will truly come together as people, as humans, and not as black or white, male or female, rich or poor, or some other petty dividing factor between us. To put it simply, I’m interested in your response. This isn’t meant to be an essay, more of a rant actually, but it’s meant to inspire debate. Go ahead…post your replies and responses.

I agree with you... Except for the Rich and Poor part. Oh, and the part about Stars, Moons, and Pentagrams.

I'm not a christian per se (although i was raised Catholic) so I'm not trying to play the victim. Christianity is the majority religion in America and one of the "big three" in the world, thought. That's why I used it.

My complain, granted it I didn't go into it because it really isn't that important, is the fact that we get off school because of "spring break" and not "easter break". Everyone knows why we're getting off school. Why not just say it?

Ya I see your point there. My kids school had spring break before easter so they are calling yesterday and inservice day, instead of good friday. And yes I think that is just silly.

Many religions demand that Christian symbols be taken down across the nation, while in the meantime shoving their stars, moons, or pentagrams down your throat. The poor despise the rich, but expect the same people they can’t stand to support them through welfare.

I don't recall pengatgrams getting in Lucky Charms, you might want to have that checked.

In the pathetically politically correct world we live in, something has come up gradually though time that's particularly disturbing: the idea that as a minority, you are more deserving that those of the majority.

First of all, I am not a racist, a sexist, or prejudice in any real form. I say real due to certain circumstances involving obesity, but that's not the main focus of this thread.

It seems that in today’s world, minorities of society want to have their cake and eat it too. Women glare at you for not holding the door for them, but yell at you for doing it as well, calling it chauvinistic. Many religions demand that Christian symbols be taken down across the nation, while in the meantime shoving their stars, moons, or pentagrams down your throat. The poor despise the rich, but expect the same people they can’t stand to support them through welfare.

The most horrifying aspect of my argument, however, is in regards to race. I am a true believer in racial equality, and I wish I could prove that if all social stigmas (blacks being more athletic, Asians being better at math, etc.) are thrown aside, and each person is raised similar, all people could be the same. (barring intellect naturally…but that’s just natural selection.) It seems, however, that many minorities do not wish for this same goal. For my example, I shall use the African American minority group.

Black people broadcast the fact that they are indeed black, separating themselves from society, and only fueling the baseless, but very real, racial rage against them. Most of this, as I’ve pointed out, is due to double standards. A “Miss Black America” is standard, but a “Miss White America” would be racist. “Jet Magazine” promotes black culture, but something like “Eggshell Magazine” would simply be a way of discriminating. BET, or Black Entertainment Television, celebrates African’s achievements in film, but if someone dared to make WET, they would be labeled a racist right off the bat.

Why is it that the black minority, and many others, decides to push the fact that they are in fact different, “better” in their views, “worse” in the minds of racists, instead of pushing the fact that they are equal to those around them? Is it all a big misunderstanding? No. Am I just a stupid racist with an uncommon intelligence? Hardly. It is because no ground truly wants equality. Each minority group is put in place to “one-up” the majority it is outnumbered by.

It is only when we cast aside our “black pride” or our “girl power” or our “rights of the working man” that we will truly come together as people, as humans, and not as black or white, male or female, rich or poor, or some other petty dividing factor between us. To put it simply, I’m interested in your response. This isn’t meant to be an essay, more of a rant actually, but it’s meant to inspire debate. Go ahead…post your replies and responses.


Wow, reason and logic. In this PC world let alone this particular forum are you completely out of your mind?

If you would have posted this a few months ago, you would have been flamed to death. Thankfully, some of the more rabid people have either retired or purposely dropped.

And that right there is the problem with out society. There's too much asskissing and not enough "cold hard truth."
Indeed.
Perhaps we should go kick some minority ass...
>_>
<_<
What?

Well, I would say that there are two problems with your point.

The first is that you assume that blacks are trying to be seperate so they can "one-up" the white man, while the white man can't retaliate. I would reply by saying first that whites don't need to retaliate, because they have historically, and even today still have a disproportionate share of the wealth in this nation. Retaliation is to try to avenge a loss that has been incurred, yet I fail to see in the U.S. history books where whites lost anything. So I have nothing against the lack of a "White Entertainment Television" station when just about all channels could technically be termed "White Entertainment Television", since they almost all cater to middle class interests, and the middle class is overwhelmingly white.

The second is that you equate race and class interests, when the two are not the same and should not be conflated, except to say, for instance, that what is good for poor whites would also be good for poor blacks. The "working man" is not a minority, he is the vast majority.

It's because everyone's selfish, and no one gives a shit about anyone else. There ya go. The best thing to do is to try to avoid getting worked up about it all. Give it a few years you'll be an expert at this.

Good answer!

I am apart of a "minority", however I don't believe anybody should cater to me or treat me superior in any way. I do however experience discrimination on a daily basis. It may not be extreme discrimination, however it's little things like people thinking I work at a certain place when I'm in fact a customer, or I'm involved in janitorial work. I don't want special treatment, I just want equality. I just wish for people to stop assuming I act a certain way based on what they see on television. I don't want people to automatically assume I'm ignorant or work at some place just because of the way I look.

I speak distinctly and intelligently. I have a large vocabulary. I never use "Ebonics". I have developed communication skills, nor am I ignorant towards my appearance and behavior. I am just an intellectual mild mannered multi racial teenager trying to live life. I've encountered a few extreme cases of racism here and there, but all I've ever wanted was equality. When I experience racism, I feel as I did when I was a young kid. Bewildered and stunned at the fact that people hate me and they don't even know me. That's just how I feel.

My main problem with this is that minorities are disrespecting the fundamentals that our nations were built on. I'm sorry, but this is the West. While we may not be Islamic, we allow and support the practitioning of Islam. While we may not be Jewish, we support the Jewish faith.
Does that mean that you cannot say 'Merry Christmas!' when someone leaves your store? NO! But instead we have to say 'Happy Holidays', because of a group of people who are 'offended' by it. Well, I'm sorry, but if you were offended by that then maybe you shouldn't have come to a Christian-based society in the first place.

Our problem is that we as a people aren't protesting. We don't jump up when BET comes out and claim its discriminatory or offensive. We let it happen. However, whenever the tables turn, everyone jumps on every little thing.

Example: The Christmas tree couldn't be called a Christmas tree at my high school. Instead, it was the 'Tree of Warmth'. I'm goddamn offended by that, as would anyone who would be a practicing Christian or just with Christian roots; there comes a time when you just have to RESPECT other peoples cultures, without trying to change them. I feel like that Respect hasn't been a two way street, and I as a non-racist white male, am absolutely offended by it.

I agree with most of your post except for the last paragraph. You make a lot of unfair generalisations though.

Instead, it was the 'Tree of Warmth.'
That's the last straw - you really should take a stand against the Politically Correct assholes of your school.

Example: The Christmas tree couldn't be called a Christmas tree at my high school. Instead, it was the 'Tree of Warmth'. I'm goddamn offended by that, as would anyone who would be a practicing Christian or just with Christian roots; there comes a time when you just have to RESPECT other peoples cultures, without trying to change them. I feel like that Respect hasn't been a two way street, and I as a non-racist white male, am absolutely offended by it.
I think you should have stood just off the schools campus, gotten a bunch of friends together and started singing 'Oh Christmas Tree,' REALLY loudly.

Good answer!
I'm surprised this thread is still going after my answer...[/egotism]

*snip*

Wow. You've managed to mix a lot of prejudices together into that rant. You are so all over the place it is hard to respond.

This is indicative of your errors: you suggest the rich and poor should "come together as people." But the rich get to stay rich and poor get to stay poor. Definitely see why the rich would like that. Not so great for the poor.

The same theme runs throughout. Feel sorry for the oppressed rich white Christian man with power. Boo hoo. His privileges and advantages are being eroded. It's so unfair.

There are these little things called history and discrimination. Although race has little or no biological significance, it has had and continues to have enormous significance. As historian Roger Wilkins has pointed out, Blacks have a 375-year history on this continent: 245 involving slavery, 100 involving legalized discrimination, and only 30 involving anything else. And if you do not think discrimination still ocurrs you are living in a dream world. So do they have a bone to pick, yes. Black pride is a reaction to rebuild a people who are still struggling against de facto segregation. Signs of white pride are all around you. Whites simply do not recognize their own privilege.

Various degrees of the same story applies to all the minorities you target.

Affirmative action is complex. But the simple answer is you probably cannot accurately define it. AA does not require preferences for the unqualified or the less qualified.

Separation of church and state has nothing to do with oppressing Christians and is really pretty simple to understand. Religion is ubiquitous in the private sphere precisely because our Constitution keeps religion and government separate (mostly).

All you people claiming to not be sexist, racist, and etcetera are donig a pretty damn good job of classifying all people in a certain race, religion, or sex as believing or wanting stuff a certain way and are all against YOU. It is not the general minority that want stuff like that, it is the extremists. Just like the extremists white male Christians who claim everything should be done exactly the way they want then claim discrimination when it isn't. The general "minority" doesn't give two shits if it's called a Christmas tree or The Magical Tree of Holiday Bullshit, it's the extremists who care. Just like its the self-proclaimed neutral people bitching their asses off about the minority instead of shit that is actually happening and who it is being carried out by.

I've gotta admit, Cat, you just earned a lot of respect from me (as if you didn't have a lot already!).

Quote: And I have never had I pagan or Muslim or Jew or atheist or Hindu ECT... knock on my door trying to convert me.
I don’t have anything against Christians I just cant stand it when they try to play the victim because they are not!

Christians are supposed to convert people, Jesus taught of it. To let our lights shine within the darkness of the world. The apostle Paul taught us all to be ministers of reconciliation. Why are the ten commandments being posted a bad thing, I've never heard anyone try to ban the constitution, which in part (I will admit not fully) based upon Christian values. Minorities have always been oppressed. Things like welfare and affirmative action are to level the playing field. If it weren't for government "caterings" as you put it, I would not be able to afford college. That's at no fault of my own. Why should I have to suffer because I'm not white or rich? The reason majorities should respect the sovereignty of the minorities has to do with history; I've never seen a "black only" sign. I've never heard of a middle-American holocaust or genocide of whites. To say we should put 'labels' aside and cast aside those labels like 'rich or poor' and unite would never work. The rich would just have the upper hand. If a college committee was comparing two equally merited individuals, one-dirt poor and the other rich, the one who has rich parents will win. Affirmative action, scholarships, and other government agencies insure that even the dirt poor have a chance. It's based on the idea my social status is not my fault. I'm not to blame for being poor, why use my parent's mistakes against me? I did nothing wrong. You think racism isn't still around? You must have never been to the south where racial divides are under the surface. Being in an all black community, you will be readily accepted? Vice-versa, all white, southern community and 'in walks a coon' you don't think there will be racial tension? What sort of liberal euphoria do you live in?

You know I'm actually surprised someone hasn't accused you of being racist or a bigot...I completely agree...The answer is I don't know...Or why is it there can be brown pride or black pride but not white pride? And that is coming for a Mexican. LOL

This forum has changed a lot since the US election. The rabid leftists have toned down or quit(Stephistan and I guess her husband but he always seamed decent). The conservatives have started speaking up more.

Like I said, a few months ago a post like this would have been denounced as incredibly biased and wrong and the poster would have been labelled a Nazi or some such.

This is just my opinion(obviously) but ginven the nov 2nd election and the Iraqi elections and all the other changes in the middle east, one sector of this forums population has decided that maybe they ought to re think their views or STFU.

At the very least they arent nearly so vocal / blinded as they were before

OMGNOES TEH WHITE MAN IZ BEING OPPRESSORED!!!!

What I mean is that white people have been in charge for most of the time and this recent pride in minorities is understandable. BET was created when blacks weren't in mainstream TV, but nowadays it isn't really needed now. Same story with Jet and Ebony.

The best option would be to just abolish all this special crap like BET, KKK, NAACP, etc.

What everyone needs to understand is that on a genetic level, there is only a .00009% difference between us...and that is a conservative estimate.

Kinda eliminates the whole "racial purity" thing huh? What race?

Human my friend...homo sapiens...

I am not racist or predjudiced in any way, except for that fat people thing, cause they CAN help it. Anyway I do wonder though, why does the NAACP exist? Wouldn't that be like a club that only blacks benefit from? And for it to be legal?? HELLO. Where else can you exclude the rest of the population? No where. I do understand that at some time it was necessary but with the worlds population growing as it is especially in the U.S. soon they will no longer be a minority. Then what happens? Are we going to repeat past mistakes? I hope not.

whitey is the real minority of the world they are tryin to keep their power over us but we are recovering the truth about black civliation albinos should cater to us

whitey is the real minority of the world they are tryin to keep their power over us but we are recovering the truth about black civliation albinos should cater to us

...What...?

whitey is the real minority of the world they are tryin to keep their power over us but we are recovering the truth about black civliation albinos should cater to us

Somebody is on their daily intake of crack. :p

I've said it once and I will say it again: There is nothing wrong with White Pride, Straight Pride, or Man Pride. Nothing at all. The problem happens because the people who want to celebrate White Pride are the same people who wear hoods and burn crosses and call for the deportation of all people of color. The same people who want to celebrate Straight Pride are the same people who want to hang queers from fences. The same people who would celebrate Man Pride are the same people who want all women either in the kitchen or biting a pillow.

If your pride stems from the hatred of those not like you, that's not pride and you will get no parade.

Deal with it or change it. If you're White and Proud, then be White and Proud. Just don't use your White Pride to mean White Nationalist Pride or you will get rocks thrown at you.

Capiche?

To the other person whom said noone respects Christians, do not be dismayed. It's a moot point, why are you so offended by the Christmas tree? Did Jesus have one? No. Did Jesus ever talk of the Easter bunny or Saint Nicholas? No. Christmas is as secular as Halloween or Thanksgiving. It may be American, but it isn't necessarily Christian. Jesus did teach, however, the world hated him and will also hate us. But he did overcome the world so that we may also. Be not friends of the world, for it is an abomination to God. Be in the world but not of the world. Will not having a Christmas tree at high school stop you from your eternal salvation? No. Does it offend God that you may not have a Christmas tree? Hardly. Should we be offended the world does not want our teachings in public? No. Jesus said "lend up to Ceaser's what is Ceaser's and what is God's to God". Seperation of Church and state a corrosion of Christian morals? Unless Jesus is a homosexual, vegan liberal, I would say not. (No offense to our 'liberal' friends, that is the stereotype.) I thought it was fair to stereotype since the originator of the post also did that. You are assuming every minority wants a hand-out when that is rarely the case. I've seen more lazy, white alcoholics on welfare than I have lazy, black addicts on welfare. There is a limit in most states of three years, so it isn't as if there are people perpetually on the system. How can you sympathize with the hungry when you have food? The miniorities when you are the majority? The poor when you have the money? Suffering when you're not. You can't. The only way to feel the fear of not having food tomorrow can only be sympathized when you have no money, no hope of tomorrow. Give your entire lively hood to charity and live on the streets. Have barely enough to scrounge for your next meal, if that, and see how fluid the economy is and see how many 'rich' people will push aside their differences and embrace you. See how fluid it is for those who are on the bottom of soceity.

This is just my opinion(obviously) but ginven the nov 2nd election and the Iraqi elections and all the other changes in the middle east, one sector of this forums population has decided that maybe they ought to re think their views or STFU.


Ermmm ... no ... contrary to popular belief, we have not laid down and died, nor have we re-examined our views. Bush's very narrow re-election means nothing and the elections in Iraq haven't done a damn bit of good ... the war rages on (or had you not noticed).

The best option would be to just abolish all this special crap like BET, KKK, NAACP, etc.

That's my main point, man.

whitey is the real minority of the world they are tryin to keep their power over us but we are recovering the truth about black civliation albinos should cater to us

Ah hell, not you again!

First of all: USE PROPER PUNCTUATION.

Second of all: I acknowledge that blacks have a rich history from Africa, so do the rest of the people on this planet. So get off your high horse.

Finally: Albinism is a real genetic ailment that effects ALL races and ethnicities. There are black albinos as well as white albinos. Classifying all whites as "albinos" is not only offensive...but scientificaly incorrect.

That's my main point, man.

Freedom of expression goes to those who want to get piercings and those who are narrow-minded and still cry "White Power". No one has right to oppress another, included you. You aren't any better than the Neo-Nazi's if you ban their views. Will censorship fix it? No, it'll make it more tumultuous. That is un-American. That is Middle-Eastern. Who are you to decide what someone does with their lives?

Only in America dude. People in this country are spoiled and think they deserve the world.

"I don't get ahead in life because i'm black!"
No, you don't get ahead in life because you're too busy "hanging with your homies" and smoking your crack-pipe. Try getting off your black ass and getting a job.

I don't blame "rascism" for my mistakes. I'm Mexican and never once has it heald me back, what heald me back was not going through school and having no ambition..

But what can I say, people in this country are so damn high and mighty that they want a pity party for every little thing that happens to them. Maybe I should stone the next Jew that bitches about his heritage. Hell, that's what happens to the lucky ones in Saudi Arabia..

I have no tolerance for people that make excuses to subject me to thier attention-whoring. It belittlles us both..

The inconvenient little problem with this white male backslapping is the assumption that if minorities would simply stop adovcating for themselves all would be well. Maybe for the majority.

Widespread discrimination and exclusion and their ripple effects continue to exist. Here are some (I know practically verboten here) facts:


Minorities and women remain economically disadvantaged: the black unemployment rate remains over twice the white unemployment rate; 97 percent of senior managers in Fortune 1000 corporations are white males; (28) in 1992, 33.3 percent of blacks and 29.3 percent of Hispanics lived in poverty, compared to 11.6 percent of whites. (29) In 1993, Hispanic men were half as likely as white men to be managers or professionals; (30) only 0.4 percent of senior management positions in Fortune 1000 industrial and Fortune 500 service industries are Hispanic. (31)


Blatant discrimination is a continuing problem in the labor market. Perhaps the most convincing evidence comes from "audit" studies, in which white and minority (or male and female) job seekers are given similar resumes and sent to the same set of firms to apply for a job. These studies often find that employers are less likely to interview or offer a job to minority applicants and to female applicants. (32)


Less direct evidence on discrimination comes from comparisons of earnings of blacks and whites, or males and females. (33) Even after adjusting for characteristics that affect earnings (such as years of education and work experience), these studies typically find that blacks and women are paid less than their white male counterparts. The average income for Hispanic women with college degrees is less than the average for white men with high school degrees. (34)


In 1994 alone, the Federal government received over 90,000 complaints of employment discrimination. Moreover 64,423 complaints were filed with state and local Fair Employment Practices Commissions, bringing the total last year to over 154,000. Thousands of other individuals filed complaints alleging racially motivated violence and discrimination in housing, voting, and public accommodations, to name just a few.


White males continue to hold 97 percent of senior management positions in Fortune 1000 industrial and Fortune 500 service industries. Only 0.6 percent of senior management are African American, 0.3 percent are Asian and 0.4 percent are Hispanic.


African Americans hold only 2.5 percent of top jobs in the private sector and African American men with professional degrees earn only 79 percent of the amount earned by their white counterparts. Comparably situated African American women earn only 60 percent of the amount earned by white males.


Women hold 3 to 5 percent of senior level management positions -- there are only two women CEOs in Fortune 1000 companies.


The fears and prejudices of lower-rung white male executives were listed as a principal barrier to the advancement of women and minorities. The report also found that, across the board, men advance more rapidly than women.


The unemployment rate for African Americans was more than twice that of whites in 1994. The median income for black males working full-time, full year in 1992 was 30 percent less than white males. Hispanics fared only modestly better in each category. In 1993, black and Hispanic men were half as likely as white men to be managers or professionals.


In 1992, over 50 percent of African American children under 6 and 44 percent of Hispanic children lived under the poverty level, while only 14.4 percent of white children did so. The overall poverty rates were 33.3 percent for African Americans, 29.3 percent for Hispanics and 11.6 percent for whites.


Black employment remains fragile -- in an economic downturn, black unemployment leads the downward spiral. For example, in the 1981-82 recession, black employment dropped by 9.1 percent while white employment fell by 1.6 percent. Hispanic unemployment is also much more cyclical than unemployment for white Americans. (39) Hispanic family income remains much lower, and increases at a slower rate, than white family income.


Unequal access to education plays an important role in creating and perpetuating economic disparities. In 1993, less than 3 percent of college graduates were unemployed; but whereas 22.6 percent of whites had college degrees, only 12.2 percent of African Americans and 9.0 percent of Hispanics did.


The 1990 census reflected that 2.4 percent of the nation's businesses are owned by blacks. Almost 85 percent of those black owned businesses have no employees


Even within educational categories, the economic status of minorities and women fall short. The average woman with a masters degree earns the same amount as the average man with an associate degree. (42) While college educated black women have reached earnings parity with college educated white women, college educated black men earn 76 percent of the earnings of their white male counterparts. (43) Hispanic women earn less than 65 percent of the income earned by white men with the same educational level. Hispanic men earn 81 percent of the wages earned by white men at the same educational level. The average income for Hispanic women with college degrees is less than the average for white men with high school degrees.


A study of the graduating classes of the University of Michigan Law School from 1972-1975 revealed significant wage differentials between men and women lawyers after 15 years of practice. While women earned 93.5 percent of male salaries during the first year after school, that number dropped to 61 percent after 15 years of practice. Controlling for grades, hours of work, family responsibilities, labor market experience, and choice of careers (large firms versus small firms, academia, public interest, etc.), men are left with an unexplained 13 percent earnings advantage over women.


Here is my source (http://clinton2.nara.gov/WH/EOP/OP/html/aa/aa04.html). Its the Clinton Administration's Affirmative Action Review: Report to the President. Please feel free to check its accuracy. In fact, read it. Learn it. Love it. Here are the footnotes (http://clinton2.nara.gov/WH/EOP/OP/html/aa/footnotes.html#aa28).

I'm going to go watch basketball for a while so I don't have an aneurysm.

http://www.stewartsynopsis.com/chapter_7.htm

whitey is caused by mutated albino africans inbreeding in eurape blond hair and blue eyes are both defects lik white skin

Ah hell, not you again!

First of all: USE PROPER PUNCTUATION.

Second of all: I acknowledge that blacks have a rich history from Africa, so do the rest of the people on this planet. So get off your high horse.

Finally: Albinism is a real genetic ailment that effects ALL races and ethnicities. There are black albinos as well as white albinos. Classifying whites as "albinos" is not only offensive...but scientificaly incorrect.


Black isn't scientifically correct either. Black is the absence of pigment wheras Black people have more pigment than do white people thus their darker color. You misspelt "scientifically". Either be correct when bashing other people or do not do it at all. "So get off your high horse". Proper grammar does not mean you're more intelligent. Most of the greatest poets of all time revolutionized the way we use grammer and punctuation, but in their own time they were grammatically incorrect.

This is indicative of your errors: you suggest the rich and poor should "come together as people." But the rich get to stay rich and poor get to stay poor. Definitely see why the rich would like that. Not so great for the poor.

The same theme runs throughout. Feel sorry for the oppressed rich white Christian man with power. Boo hoo. His privileges and advantages are being eroded. It's so unfair.

There are these little things called history and discrimination. Although race has little or no biological significance, it has had and continues to have enormous significance. As historian Roger Wilkins has pointed out, Blacks have a 375-year history on this continent: 245 involving slavery, 100 involving legalized discrimination, and only 30 involving anything else. And if you do not think discrimination still ocurrs you are living in a dream world. So do they have a bone to pick, yes. Black pride is a reaction to rebuild a people who are still struggling against de facto segregation. Signs of white pride are all around you. Whites simply do not recognize their own privilege.


First of all, the poor should strive to better themselves, just as all of us should. Everyone has a vice, most people many, and they should continuously try and improve upon their shortcomings. If a lack of money, or in most of their cases drive and education as well, then that's what you should try and improve.

I'm not saying to feel sorry for the majority or anything else you put into my mouth. I'm saying that reverse racism is as stupid as racism to begin with. Pointing out that you are different and making sure that difference is known is not the way to achieve equality. It's effect is directly opposite.

The last paragraph I quoted is nothing more than a defense of reverse racism. "We put down the black man so they have the right to do this." "Think of slavery! Who are we to say anything?" Their "bone to pick," if they actually have one, is irrelevant. It's detrimental to equality, and to what their real cause should be.

I hate affirmative action. Stupidest thing ever.

This forum has changed a lot since the US election. The rabid leftists have toned down or quit(Stephistan and I guess her husband but he always seamed decent). The conservatives have started speaking up more.

This is just my opinion(obviously) but ginven the nov 2nd election and the Iraqi elections and all the other changes in the middle east, one sector of this forums population has decided that maybe they ought to re think their views or STFU.

At the very least they arent nearly so vocal / blinded as they were before
One difference I notice between 2004 and now is that the conservatives back then were much more vicously partisan and immature. At the height of the election 'debate' I couldn't go a day without seeing someone on this forum (usually a conservative) actually threatening violence against another poster. Flames everywhere were the norm. The left-wingers seem to be pretty much the same, but some of the more immature/crazy/flamey ones have left (e.g. Chess Squares, MKULTRA).

I doubt that many of the anti-Bush crowd have changed their views since November 2004. I haven't.

Is there something in particular wrong with BET? I mean, if there was no demand for it, it would go out of business right? It's not publicly funded is it? It caters to the tastes of black people, whereas most stations cater to white people, so naming "White Entertainment Television" or something similar would be useless (fair enough, because white people are the majority in North America). It isn't as if white people can't watch BET either, my white brother does, but should it try to ignore the fact that it's based on black culture. What exactly is the problem? I don't ever hear Canadians whining about French television stations (which, by the way, are few and far between in English Canada).

My main problem with this is that minorities are disrespecting the fundamentals that our nations were built on. I'm sorry, but this is the West. While we may not be Islamic, we allow and support the practitioning of Islam. While we may not be Jewish, we support the Jewish faith.
Does that mean that you cannot say 'Merry Christmas!' when someone leaves your store? NO! But instead we have to say 'Happy Holidays', because of a group of people who are 'offended' by it. Well, I'm sorry, but if you were offended by that then maybe you shouldn't have come to a Christian-based society in the first place.

Our problem is that we as a people aren't protesting. We don't jump up when BET comes out and claim its discriminatory or offensive. We let it happen. However, whenever the tables turn, everyone jumps on every little thing.

Example: The Christmas tree couldn't be called a Christmas tree at my high school. Instead, it was the 'Tree of Warmth'. I'm goddamn offended by that, as would anyone who would be a practicing Christian or just with Christian roots; there comes a time when you just have to RESPECT other peoples cultures, without trying to change them. I feel like that Respect hasn't been a two way street, and I as a non-racist white male, am absolutely offended by it.


I agree with you completely. In England things have not gone as far as that yet, but it could get to that.
The main problem is that a lot of people are not happy about this kind of thing, but people are too afraid to voice their feelings for fear of being labelled a bigot or a racist or something similar.
However this is not true, and political correctness has gone too far. Why should we have to suppress and dismantle our culture just because there is the chance that someone may be offended by it? It is ridiculous.
I am not against equality at all, I strongly advocate it. However, I am strongly opposed to minorities getting special treatment and advantages over the majority.
I also fear that if something is not done to stop this type of favouring of the minorities over the majority, then in future it could lead to a strong backlash.

Freedom of expression goes to those who want to get piercings and those who are narrow-minded and still cry "White Power". No one has right to oppress another, included you. You aren't any better than the Neo-Nazi's if you ban their views. Will censorship fix it? No, it'll make it more tumultuous. That is un-American. That is Middle-Eastern. Who are you to decide what someone does with their lives?

Where am I advocating banning their views? If anything, I'm just "showing them the error of their ways."

I'd like you to explain to me how me advocating true equality is oppressing or censoring anyone.

Black isn't scientifically correct either. Black is the absence of pigment wheras Black people have more pigment than do white people thus their darker color. You misspelt "scientifically". Either be correct when bashing other people or do not do it at all. "So get off your high horse". Proper grammar does not mean you're more intelligent. Most of the greatest poets of all time revolutionized the way we use grammer and punctuation, but in their own time they were grammatically incorrect.

Jesus H. Christ I can't say anything anymore can I?

1. You are correct. Black is not correct either. I was using the term for simplicities sake.

2. Okay, I spelt a word wrong. Could happen to any of us. As for his punctuation: misspellings are easy to read in most cases, but run-on sentences are damn near impossible to read.

3. Bashing? No my friend, "bashing" would be me going, "O STFU U STUPID RACIST N00B!!" And I think I rebuked him rather well, seeing as how he said nothing to back up a rather inflamatory statement.

Oy! Bye bye!

First of all, the poor should strive to better themselves, just as all of us should. Everyone has a vice, most people many, and they should continuously try and improve upon their shortcomings. If a lack of money, or in most of their cases drive and education as well, then that's what you should try and improve.

I'm not saying to feel sorry for the majority or anything else you put into my mouth. I'm saying that reverse racism is as stupid as racism to begin with. Pointing out that you are different and making sure that difference is known is not the way to achieve equality. It's effect is directly opposite.

The last paragraph I quoted is nothing more than a defense of reverse racism. "We put down the black man so they have the right to do this." "Think of slavery! Who are we to say anything?" Their "bone to pick," if they actually have one, is irrelevant. It's detrimental to equality, and to what their real cause should be.

Poverty is a vice. Gotcha.

Segregation ended within my lifetime -- within the lifetime of anyone older than 30 -- but its irrelevant. Seeking equal treatment, seeking an equal footing would be "reverse racism" and we can't inconvenience the white man. Gotcha.

Now that you've told the minorities what they shouldn't do, have any suggestions about what they should do? They are not on equal footing. They have not been and are not now. What should be done? "Don't worry, be happy"?

don u ignore me - http://www.stewartsynopsis.com/chapter_7.htm
this link tells you how mutated albino africans inbreeded in eurape to become whitey

Originally Posted by Haverton
The best option would be to just abolish all this special crap like BET, KKK, NAACP, etc.



That's my main point, man.

Right there. Abolish means to ban, unless you didn't know that.

Right here also: 'Where am I advocating banning their views? If anything, I'm just "showing them the error of their ways."'. You preach 'equality' in terms of 'intolerance'. We have to respect everyone, including those who do not. If we love those who only love us, how are we better than they? We have to love those who hate us.

I am an iranian. I have experienced racism in the past with people asking about m "terrorist uncle muhhamad" calling me a "terrorist asshole" and many ohere things. I am a lI am an iranian. I have experienced racism in the past with people asking about m "terrorist uncle muhhamad" calling me a "terrorist asshole"

i am a liberal. i will wait to see how many of you assume i am islamic or that i hate america.

well the truth is that minorities dont really have all the options that you simple minded people have. Minorities have to endure serious adversity something that you would know nothing about in youre world. Besides youre looking at it the wrong way somethings like affirmative action (which by the way doesnt even exist anymore) its just a tool, an attepmt if you will to level the playing field. Minorities dont expect anything from anyone despite all the actions taken against them they still hang on and for that i salute them.By the way i take youre comment as a judgement and something my dad always told me was " before you judge any one remember they havent had the same adantages you have had" do you know what that means? Ill tell you When you judge it really says a lot about youre character. :sniper: :mp5:

Jesus H. Christ I can't say anything anymore can I?

1. You are correct. Black is not correct either. I was using the term for simplicities sake.

2. Okay, I spelt a word wrong. Could happen to any of us. As for his punctuation: misspellings are easy to read in most cases, but run-on sentences are damn near impossible to read.

3. Bashing? No my friend, "bashing" would be me going, "O STFU U STUPID RACIST N00B!!" And I think I rebuked him rather well, seeing as how he said nothing to back up a rather inflamatory statement.

Oy! Bye bye!

That doesn't mean you have to stoop to his levels. That was my point, friend, not trying to make you look like the aggresor or anything. Like he is posting for intelligent debate for his side? No, he could be, in fact, a white person trying to play upon the stereotype of the ignorant monkeys white supremicists preach about. He could be doing it for attention, or any other motivations. However, that doesn't mean you have to spark them. Keep it intelligent. Keep it respectful. Ignore those who do not. He did not back up his inflammatory remarks, so why pay homage to them? I'm not trying to be offensive but trying, humbly, to keep this a debate and not an ill-tempered shouting match.

Quote: By the way i take youre comment as a judgement and something my dad always told me was " before you judge any one remember they havent had the same adantages you have had"

I agree with what you said, but I have to poke fun of you anyway. Was your father, in fact, Atticus Finch? =P That quote almost was taken directly from "To Kill A Mockingbird" by Harper Lee. Your Father must be well read.

don u ignore me - http://www.stewartsynopsis.com/chapter_7.htm
this link tells you how mutated albino africans inbreeded in eurape to become whitey

:confused: Wha?

Theories...genetic imbalances...crayons? What in the...

Christmas is as secular as Halloween or Thanksgiving.

Thanksgiving? Secular? Bwuahahahahahahaaaa!!!

_________________________________

WHEREAS it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favour; and Whereas both Houses of Congress have, by their joint committee, requested me "to recommend to the people of the United States a DAY OF PUBLICK THANSGIVING and PRAYER, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness:"

NOW THEREFORE, I do recommend and assign THURSDAY, the TWENTY-SIXTH DAY of NOVEMBER next, to be devoted by the people of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being who is the beneficent author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be; that we may then all unite in rendering unto Him our sincere and humble thanks for His kind care and protection of the people of this country previous to their becoming a nation; for the signal and manifold mercies and the favorable interpositions of His providence in the course and conclusion of the late war; for the great degree of tranquility, union, and plenty which we have since enjoyed;-- for the peaceable and rational manner in which we have been enable to establish Constitutions of government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national one now lately instituted;-- for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed, and the means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge;-- and, in general, for all the great and various favours which He has been pleased to confer upon us.

And also, that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations and beseech Him to pardon our national and other transgressions;-- to enable us all, whether in publick or private stations, to perform our several and relative duties properly and punctually; to render our National Government a blessing to all the people by constantly being a Government of wise, just, and constitutional laws, discreetly and faithfully executed and obeyed; to protect and guide all sovereigns and nations (especially such as have shewn kindness unto us); and to bless them with good governments, peace, and concord; to promote the knowledge and practice of true religion and virtue, and the increase of science among them and us; and, generally to grant unto all mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity as he alone knows to be best.

GIVEN under my hand, at the city of New-York, the third day of October, in the year of our Lord, one thousand seven hundred and eighty-nine.

(signed) G. Washington

From here. (http://www.leaderu.com/humanities/washington-thanksgiving-original.html)

_________________________________

Back to the topic, I really have to agree with you.

In my ideal Nation there would be no destination of minority. Period. Their would be only be the Citizen, no more, no less, no destination.

:confused: Wha?

Theories...genetic imbalances...crayons? What in the...

He's obviously eaten too many of those mushrooms...

Ermmm ... no ... contrary to popular belief, we have not laid down and died, nor have we re-examined our views. Bush's very narrow re-election means nothing and the elections in Iraq haven't done a damn bit of good ... the war rages on (or had you not noticed).

Dont know what your so uppity about, you werent one of the people I was thinking about when I posted that. Though I dont agree with many(most I think) of your views, not agreeing is vastly different from other things that go one in this forum(or real life for that matter).

Disagreement is generally a way to refine arguments. Many of the people who arent interested in RATIONAL discussion(take no offense but IMHO they have mostly come from 1 side of the fence in the last 20+ years). Excuse be, but I can only think back to juniour high.

My views started back then when instead of answering my questions(based on simple math given the lecturer's numbers about homelessness), The lecturer and the entire teaching staff chose instead to simply ignore my question and not allow me ask another. I am sorry, if adults cannot justify a position(using their own numbers) to a 12 year old and deal with it by refusing to answer, there must be something really wrong with the whole ideology.

The question was about the number of homeless(using their numbers on mental defect, substance abuse, economic policy, bad luck). Turns out their numbers were grossly inflated, but even using the they couldnt answer basic question and instead refused to answer. Adults dont act this way to children, ZEALOTS do. Which is what I think of the left in the USA. ZEALOT being one who picks and chooses the information to believe based on whether it forwards their cause. That and the matter of mindlessly pursuing their despite contradictory information.

That side of the fence(the crazy left) has severely dropped posting(except for the lunatics(TRA's puppet ect) in the last few months. Their postings peaked during the weeks before the US elections and the Afgan then Iraqi elections. If you havent noticed it, I have.

i am a liberal. i will wait to see how many of you assume i am islamic or that i hate america.

My friend, not all of us thinks you hate America. But you have to understand many of us do not know much about the Middle-East and we didn't have to until September 11th. We are afraid because we do not know. We do not know the difference between Iraq or Kuwait. We do not realize the cultural differences between say Persians and Arabs. We do not understand why your Middle-Eastern culture does what it does, fights over what it fights over. Alot of our prejudice, although I do not condone it, is out of fear. We aren't used to having to see our flag burn, our President's image burnt, or the wide spread intolerance and what we deem 'inhumane' treatment in the Middle-East. Look at Africa, wide-spread genocide and mass killings, terrorists, etc. But America looked at it with a blind eye. We're not used to this. And now we are forced to stare into the car-wreck that is the world. Americans have always hated to get into battles...look at the late entries into both world wars. Afterwords, we wanted to prevent future wars and dictatorships and spread our prosperity and when we did we got disdain and hatred, both ways. Americans are deemed ignorant to anyone we do not agree with. We're being singled out and double standard. The insurgents can behead our troops, but a naked human pyramid is the biggest international scandal since Adolph. Do I condone it? No. I wish we could have peace throughout the world, but that isn't reality. Middle-America is ignorant, and I apologize for that. I am as oppressed as you are and my family has been living here since we crossed the land border from Sibera into Alaska and into North America. We know intolerance and bigotry, we know hardships.

Steel Butterfly, you are a mind-reader.

Long have I thought this, but saying it would get me labeled a racist. So FINALLY seeing someone say it is nice. I agree wholeheartedly.

don u ignore me - http://www.stewartsynopsis.com/chapter_7.htm
this link tells you how mutated albino africans inbreeded in eurape to become whitey
Right, usually the best way to deal with racists like you is in the most unPC way possible. So, if you claim that Negroid is the one true race tell me:
Hows Africa doing buddy?

Thanksgiving? Secular? Bwuahahahahahahaaaa!!!

_________________________________

Snip speech.

(signed) G. Washington

From here. (http://www.leaderu.com/humanities/washington-thanksgiving-original.html)

_________________________________



Yes, but his suggestion was roundly rejected. Thanksgiving did not become a nationally celebrated holiday untill Lincoln reconcieved of it as a way to unify the North and South after the Civil War. And most of the South continued to reject it for quite some time, considering it to be a tool of Northern oppression.

Thanksgiving? Secular? Bwuahahahahahahaaaa!!!

_________________________________

WHEREAS it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favour; and Whereas both Houses of Congress have, by their joint committee, requested me "to recommend to the people of the United States a DAY OF PUBLICK THANSGIVING and PRAYER, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness:"

NOW THEREFORE, I do recommend and assign THURSDAY, the TWENTY-SIXTH DAY of NOVEMBER next, to be devoted by the people of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being who is the beneficent author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be; that we may then all unite in rendering unto Him our sincere and humble thanks for His kind care and protection of the people of this country previous to their becoming a nation; for the signal and manifold mercies and the favorable interpositions of His providence in the course and conclusion of the late war; for the great degree of tranquility, union, and plenty which we have since enjoyed;-- for the peaceable and rational manner in which we have been enable to establish Constitutions of government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national one now lately instituted;-- for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed, and the means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge;-- and, in general, for all the great and various favours which He has been pleased to confer upon us.

And also, that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations and beseech Him to pardon our national and other transgressions;-- to enable us all, whether in publick or private stations, to perform our several and relative duties properly and punctually; to render our National Government a blessing to all the people by constantly being a Government of wise, just, and constitutional laws, discreetly and faithfully executed and obeyed; to protect and guide all sovereigns and nations (especially such as have shewn kindness unto us); and to bless them with good governments, peace, and concord; to promote the knowledge and practice of true religion and virtue, and the increase of science among them and us; and, generally to grant unto all mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity as he alone knows to be best.

GIVEN under my hand, at the city of New-York, the third day of October, in the year of our Lord, one thousand seven hundred and eighty-nine.

(signed) G. Washington

From here. (http://www.leaderu.com/humanities/washington-thanksgiving-original.html)

_________________________________

Back to the topic, I really have to agree with you.

In my ideal Nation there would be no destination of minority. Period. Their would be only be the Citizen, no more, no less, no destination.


Since we all have that memorized right? Since that's why we all watch football and gorge on turkey? The reason we commemorate thanksgiving, or Christmas isn't secular, but the way we do is. The Christian values in which those holidays were founded upon were commercialized and secularized. When's the last time there were any reference to "And also, that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations and beseech Him to pardon our national and other transgressions" in the superbowl, or at a Thanksgiving banquet? I've never seen Terrel Owens quote Mr. Washington, but forgive me when I thought the 'turkeybowl' and eating passed your waist-line of your pants Godly. Last time I checked, Almighty God frowned upon gluttony. Maybe eating until you have to unbutton your pants and then going for more pumpkin pie is Godly somehow. Since getting as many presents as possible in Christmas is Godly. That is so Christian.

Right, usually the best way to deal with racists like you is in the most unPC way possible. So, if you claim that Negroid is the one true race tell me:
Hows Africa doing buddy?

Oh...here comes a war...

Right, usually the best way to deal with racists like you is in the most unPC way possible. So, if you claim that Negroid is the one true race tell me:
Hows Africa doing buddy?
probably would be doing much better if it hadnt been ruthlessly exploited for several hundred years....

For the most part I agree, with the execption fo the religion part because its called seperation of church ans state. If you started a white heritage group you would be considered racist, but not if you start an Asiabn or African-American one.

probably would be doing much better if it hadnt been ruthlessly exploited for several hundred years....

By themselves? o.0

i Did not say all of you wou think i hated america i said that the chances were that some of you would. While i appreciate your explanation i do not feel oppresed and the only place i have encountered racism is on the internet.

Right, usually the best way to deal with racists like you is in the most unPC way possible. So, if you claim that Negroid is the one true race tell me:
Hows Africa doing buddy?
Oh fuckmonkey....you don't have any idea what you have done.

By themselves? o.0
better by themselves?

Right, usually the best way to deal with racists like you is in the most unPC way possible. So, if you claim that Negroid is the one true race tell me:
Hows Africa doing buddy?

I am curious to know who you think is the "one true race". Please, do tell.

I am curious to know who you think is the "one true race". Please, do tell.
Everyone KNOWS its the Morlocks.

Cat Tribes for President. I_Hate_Cows for House Speaker. I V Stalin for Great Leader.

That is to say, proactive attempts by minorities to gain rights - political, civil and economic - have been necessary, are necessary, and will be necessary. The idea that we can all embrace each other, get along and everything will by hunky dorey is naive at best.

Look through history. If you don't fight for your rights, you get oppressed. It's the law of the jungle, my friend.

i now have to leave to purchase chessmaster 10th edition

probably would be doing much better if it hadnt been ruthlessly exploited for several hundred years....
Well then being exploited as such knocks down his theory of a superior race now, doesn't it?

I am curious to know who you think is the "one true race". Please, do tell.

American. Anyone can join and we are as tolerant as anyone. We aren't perfect, by any means, but would like to be. We are continually trying to be more tolerant and open to others. We are very susceptible to small time squabbles like these on the internet, between Dems and Republicans, but still, at the end of the day, we still coincide. We live together, we work together. We can debate and have a slice of coffee cake. In other parts of the world, that is a luxury people are trying to die for. Still. In the last century and a half, we have abolished slavery, broken down racial barriers, and now are trying for the economic barrier. We are as equal as you'll find it in the world. Some parts of the world have been fighting the same barriers, the same ignorance and oppression to a given minority group since Moses. Liberal, conservative, man we have it good in America.

I am curious to know who you think is the "one true race". Please, do tell.
There is no one true race, the very concept of one is bullshit. I'm just pointing out Abdulkarim's bigotry.

One difference I notice between 2004 and now is that the conservatives back then were much more vicously partisan and immature. At the height of the election 'debate' I couldn't go a day without seeing someone on this forum (usually a conservative) actually threatening violence against another poster. Flames everywhere were the norm. The left-wingers seem to be pretty much the same, but some of the more immature/crazy/flamey ones have left (e.g. Chess Squares, MKULTRA).

I doubt that many of the anti-Bush crowd have changed their views since November 2004. I haven't.


I see it slightly differently.

1) during the run up the elections I was definately gonna emphasize my likes for GW over my dislikes. I was also gonna point out Kerry's flaws. The anti Bush/pro Kerry crowd was going to do the opposite.

There are many things I dislike(severly) about Bush's policies while I am sure that there were many pro Kerry people disliked a bunch of stuff about him.


I like many things Bush has done, well I am mostly/slightly indifferant. Tax cuts are always good, Afgnistan needed to be done I guess.,

But the things I admire hime for are

1) the Isolation of Arrafat
2) Iraq war. Showed all the dictators in the world that they better reform or else. Needed an Example and this was a good one(already had an open declaration of war, violations of the cease fire, a beat up military, a population that disliked their leader, and oppressed MAJORITY, tons of natural resources,...what better place is there to make a statement?)
3) No one here will believe it, Bt I would place GW, on at least the same pedastal as Reagan...

Now, If he would reform social security(even if all he did was get it out of politicians hands) and end the war on drugs and poverty and arrest every BATF agent I would worship him as a god.

Right, usually the best way to deal with racists like you is in the most unPC way possible. So, if you claim that Negroid is the one true race tell me:
Hows Africa doing buddy?
africa is the true homeland of humans whitey are genetic defects in that sithole call eurape tru african civliation has been hidden by whitey all great civiliations have been black africans

Originally Posted by Haverton
The best option would be to just abolish all this special crap like BET, KKK, NAACP, etc.



That's my main point, man.

Right there. Abolish means to ban, unless you didn't know that.

Right here also: 'Where am I advocating banning their views? If anything, I'm just "showing them the error of their ways."'. You preach 'equality' in terms of 'intolerance'. We have to respect everyone, including those who do not. If we love those who only love us, how are we better than they? We have to love those who hate us.

Abolish means to dissolve or get rid of. Even if you take it as ban, I meant the special groups, not the ideas themselves.

http://www.stewartsynopsis.com/chapter_7.htm

whitey is caused by mutated albino africans inbreeding in eurape blond hair and blue eyes are both defects lik white skin

You're warned for racial slurs.
Knock it off.

Having been made aware that this poster had already been warned for similar language and behavior in this thread, http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8532676&postcount=8, I am forumbanning for one week.

Cat Tribes for President. I_Hate_Cows for House Speaker. I V Stalin for Great Leader.

That is to say, proactive attempts by minorities to gain rights - political, civil and economic - have been necessary, are necessary, and will be necessary. The idea that we can all embrace each other, get along and everything will by hunky dorey is naive at best.

Look through history. If you don't fight for your rights, you get oppressed. It's the law of the jungle, my friend.
Big second.

Though in an ideal world, we could all leave the past behing and step into the bright and shiny equal future, the implication of historical inequality are much more challenging. I too often feel like telling people to call a spade a spade, and move on; this is particularly nessesary when an entire community's culture is largely based on some past oppression, not a very healthy state of affairs. And of course the idiotic "Warmth trees" and other politically correct jargon is ridiculous.

That being said, racial minorities still have alot of catching up to do, as The Cat Tribe eloquently said in her first post, and deserve the attention and strengthening they get. Cultural minority groups, on the other hand, should be encouraged to expres their individuality- multculturalism is not gentrified sectarianism, it is a mosaic. The concept of a copletely level, equal, homogeneous society may be attractive at first site, but a multicultural mosaic is much more interesting as opposed to the melting pot model.

I see it slightly differently.
3) No one here will believe it, Bt I would place GW, on at least the same pedastal as Reagan...



I'm going to take that one fragment out of context. Yes, I would put him in the same place, albiet it would not be a pedastal, as Reagan.

Both turned our country into a deep, economic termoil with trillions of dollars in debt. Both are stupid men who surround themselves with smart people. Both enaged in hypocritical wars. Both shunned the rights of it's people, Reagan could have prevented AIDS from being an pandemic within the United States but instead chose the route that said God hated the homosexuals and cast down a disease for them. Both seek to 'spread freedom' to others and both took away freedom within our borders.

Only Reagan was funny and charasmatic. The only reason we laugh at Bush's jokes is because he's such a pathetic man who is disallusioned at best.

And the biggest parellel of all is how the media caters to both and allows him to spin and polarize it so that no responsibility to either of their actions can stick. Bush is a pro-lifer who as govenor passed legislation to take the choice away from terminally ill parents and give it to insurance agencies. Choice cannot deem someone not fit to live, but their inability to pay can. That's the hypocricy of 'mainstream' Christians. They aren't Christians at all and their cloud of deceit taints the rest of us. Pro-life yes. Completely. Pro-choice, never, not even when the person cannot afford to pay. That's a Christian stance. Defend life, at all costs, EVEN when it's expensive. Something Bush or Reagan could not defend.

*snip*

No, but you will certainly not see that in a school as background material around Thanksgiving, you know, lest it offend. I'm sorry, but the day history and national culture are re-written or scrapped merely to satisfy the few with a reality problem is a phucking sad day my friend.

Abolish means to dissolve or get rid of. Even if you take it as ban, I meant the special groups, not the ideas themselves.


Funny, so does Ban. If a = b and b = c than a = c. Simple logical law. The special groups are there to spread the ideas. If you get rid of one you get rid of the other. You advocate racism but not racists?? How can you try to ban a group but not their ideal?

Right, usually the best way to deal with racists like you is in the most unPC way possible. So, if you claim that Negroid is the one true race tell me:
Hows Africa doing buddy?
africa is the true homeland of humans whitey are genetic defects in that sithole call eurape tru african civliation has been hidden by whitey all great civiliations have been black africans
Okay lemme first knock down the idea of great empires
Great Empires of the 20th Century
United States of America: White
South East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere:Asian
Union of Soviet Socialist Republics: White
People Republic of China: Asian
The fact is, Africa took it in the ass ever since it made contact with europe. I'm not going to treat a bigot like you any easier because your a black bigot. So I ask you again
Hows Africas Literacy Rate?
Hows Africas Life Expectancy?
Hows Africas Political Stability?
Hows Africas AIDS percentage rate?
Hows Africa doing buddy?

africa is the true homeland of humans whitey are genetic defects in that sithole call eurape tru african civliation has been hidden by whitey all great civiliations have been black africans
Hmmm if i think really hard i might be able to come up with a few non african great civilizations
Mayans
Azatecs
Romans
Greeks
Chinese
Japanese
Persian
British
American

Open your eyes. We live in a world saturated by Capitalism. The dividing force you speak of is not a minority-driven phenomenon. Black Entertainment Television is owned by Viacom. It cannot air one minute of television without the approval of its corporate master.
The next time you're tuned into BET and hear the Bling-Bling Whassap Nigga bullshit they feed to the youth of our country, keep in mind that each and every word is transmitted at the behest of the executive commitee of Viacom, populated exclusively by rich white males. They spend their hours figuring out how to tailor messages to specific audiences in ways that will ellicit the most profit from those audiences.
This is how they think black people are, and so this is how they instruct BET to protray them. And a lot of black people are pissed off about it, because the gaping stereotypes of these portrayals are insulting.
A lot of impressionable youth are bought up by gangsta portrayals (to the everlasting shame and embarrassment of their parents), as the message is meant to specifically target the male ego of inner city black kids. Be tough, be a thug, and you'll be cool and respected. Oh and while you're at it buy our thug-wear, at a discount of course.

This world is full of very manipulative and morally reprehensible people with power enough to efficiently control others. They're good at what they do, and can pull the wool over the eyes of the populace with the precision and accuracy of seasoned professionals.

But there's an old saying: you can't fool all the people all the time. I'd advise those who play "pin the tail on the minority" to consider this: the elite of your country are taking you to be fools, and playing you all like a finely tuned instrument. You have fallen prey to their mischief, and until you recognize this you will remain their lapdogs.

My main problem with this is that minorities are disrespecting the fundamentals that our nations were built on. I'm sorry, but this is the West. While we may not be Islamic, we allow and support the practitioning of Islam. While we may not be Jewish, we support the Jewish faith.
Does that mean that you cannot say 'Merry Christmas!' when someone leaves your store? NO! But instead we have to say 'Happy Holidays', because of a group of people who are 'offended' by it. Well, I'm sorry, but if you were offended by that then maybe you shouldn't have come to a Christian-based society in the first place.


I'd like to know how you "suppoprt" some faith in any way. And who exactly is "we"?? if you mean citizens of a western country, say, America, that all those people you don't want to support are paying the same taxes you are. That's what diversity is: different kinds of people living in the same place, following the same basic rules, and doing their own thing with their communities as well. Unfortunately, some groups had, and still have, an easier time doing their own thing than others, and levelling needs to take place.

Steel butterfy your inclinations toward racism ARE correct all races are different if you agree with that then you must realize that races cannot be equal.wether a race is superior or inferior is a matter of personal opinion personally i believe whites are the superior race,maybe it's because im white'maybe it's because that is what history has shown us.If you ask me who a superior athlete i cannot lie years of manual labor and jumping up and down in africa have given negroid's an advantage and who can live with the least amount of calories ?ethiopians,and asians.Who is best suited for the cold ?fat people.(o.k. that's alittle off balace,but true none the less)Let me ask you this do you believe in or support diversity?then you must be racist ,logic dictates that much.and if you must root for a team why not your own?everyone is trying to get a piece of the pie,except whites we want to give ours away.It's sad.

Okay lemme first knock down the idea of great empires
Great Empires of the 20th Century
United States of America: White
South East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere:Asian
Union of Soviet Socialist Republics: White
People Republic of China: Asian
The fact is, Africa took it in the ass ever since it made contact with europe. I'm not going to treat a bigot like you any easier because your a black bigot. So I ask you again
Hows Africas Literacy Rate?
Hows Africas Life Expectancy?
Hows Africas Political Stability?
Hows Africas AIDS percentage rate?
Hows Africa doing buddy?

My man, it's been taken care of. Katganistan has spoken. Don't stoop any further to his level.

There is no one true race, the very concept of one is bullshit. I'm just pointing out Abdulkarim's bigotry.

Well I'm glad to see you have common sense, but exactly what logic are you using by equating the notion that Africans can't possibly be the original race because of their current state?

No, but you will certainly not see that in a school as background material around Thanksgiving, you know, lest it offend. I'm sorry, but the day history and national culture are re-written or scrapped merely to satisfy the few with a reality problem is a phucking sad day my friend.


I personally celebrate Thanksgiving and Christmas, Resurrection (easter) in terms of Christ. I'm currently on a three day fast to celebrate. Christmas we join our congregation and call it "Happy Birthday Jesus" to take out the secularism. But that isn't the mainstream. Every atheist celebrates each holiday. I know countless agnostics that celebrate Thanksgiving, who doesn't? I know countless agnostics who give gifts on December 25th, who doesn't? But that doesn't mean, because they celebrate a holiday, they live the ideals or even commemorate them. They took out Jesus and subbed in a fat man and frosty. They took out the death and resurrection of Christ and put in an egg-laying rabbit. Can you deny those holidays are secular? I do not advocate, nor did I ever advocate scrapping our culture. But culture is always being shaped, if some culture wasn't merely scrapped then we'd be speaking some Native American tongue. Not English. We wouldn't be celebrating alot of the things we do if culture didn't change. When was the last time you seen God referenced on "turkey" day? on the main stream media or outside of any given Church? I personally haven't. Our world is just that, secular.

I'm not a christian per se (although i was raised Catholic) so I'm not trying to play the victim. Christianity is the majority religion in America and one of the "big three" in the world, thought. That's why I used it.

My complain, granted it I didn't go into it because it really isn't that important, is the fact that we get off school because of "spring break" and not "easter break". Everyone knows why we're getting off school. Why not just say it?

Spring break is always the third (or maybe second-to-last, don't remember which) week of March. Easter is the Sunday following the first full moon after the spring Equinox. When I was a kid I remember it was once on April 16, far removed from the break. Not to mention, we don't need a break to get a Sunday off.

Well I'm glad to see you have common sense, but exactly what logic are you using by equating the notion that Africans can't possibly be the original race because of their current state?
I'm not. But when someone comes onto the forum claiming whites are "Mutant albinos" and that "All great civilizations have been black", then well, I'm not going to let that pass, anymore then a white supremicist. If Abdulkarim really believes that blacks are the superior race, then maybe he can explain africas history.

Steel butterfy your inclinations toward racism ARE correct all races are different if you agree with that then you must realize that races cannot be equal.wether a race is superior or inferior is a matter of personal opinion personally i believe whites are the superior race,maybe it's because im white'maybe it's because that is what history has shown us.If you ask me who a superior athlete i cannot lie years of manual labor and jumping up and down in africa have given negroid's an advantage and who can live with the least amount of calories ?ethiopians,and asians.Who is best suited for the cold ?fat people.(o.k. that's alittle off balace,but true none the less)Let me ask you this do you believe in or support diversity?then you must be racist ,logic dictates that much.and if you must root for a team why not your own?everyone is trying to get a piece of the pie,except whites we want to give ours away.It's sad.
History has shown that whites are the superior race?
really what about thes statistics hmmm?

Greatest land empire? mongols
First declaration of human rights? Persians
First civilation? Sumerians
i could go on but i wont bother

This entire debate about racial and civilizational worthiness is pointless. It's like arguing over whether there's extraterrestrial life out there or whether Alpha Centauri has planets orbiting it.

If there is no way to know a thing for certain, why argue over it?? Neither side has any legitimacy because no one definitively knows the answer. So why waste your time? I see no reason to, unless you guys just like to argue moot points or something, in which case I'd suggest you join Model UN.

-snippy snap-
Good god man, don't use foul changed color text and strange size! The normal works for everyone else.

And I smell propaganda.

I'm going to take that one fragment out of context. Yes, I would put him in the same place, albiet it would not be a pedastal, as Reagan.

Both turned our country into a deep, economic termoil with trillions of dollars in debt. Both are stupid men who surround themselves with smart people. Both enaged in hypocritical wars. Both shunned the rights of it's people, Reagan could have prevented AIDS from being an pandemic within the United States but instead chose the route that said God hated the homosexuals and cast down a disease for them. Both seek to 'spread freedom' to others and both took away freedom within our borders.

.

Let me just deal with the AIDS thing.

I grew up as horribly misinformed as you did. I was less than 10yrs old when Reagan got elected. I remember growing up thinking that AIDS is a disease pread by sex. Heterosexual, homosexual..hell, back then people thought you could get aids by being spit on by a person who had it.

Its possible, but highly unlikey. Highly isnt even the right word to describe it. I remember growing up believing that. I also remember being to forced to go to dinner parties with my parents(both doctors) and all their friends are doctors(was the only way to get out of India in the 60's,70's,80's)

I remember one party when I had my firm belief(because of the Media and m teachers ect on AIDS) and sitting in the living room listenening to the adults. Somehow the topic came up and it was pretty funny cause being a mnority every was a Democrat and the party line of its a heterosexual disease.

One guy said I have never seen an AIDS case who wasnt in a high risk group. Another said the same. And again and again. Must have been 40 doctors in the living room, worked in different hospitals, differnt parts on NYC, and almost no one had seen and AIDS case unless the patient wasnt 1)gay, 2) an IV drug user 3) in a relationship with 1 or 2 or 4) the child of 1 or 2.


Wow, that a lot differnt than what I was told. I was told that some guy sleeping with some girl has a good chance of getting AIDS.

You know what. Thats complete BULLSHIT

AIDS in the US is a GAY and IV drug user disease. PERIOD. All you people that want to convince others otherwise.... question why you want to do this.

Even the Drug user part is minimal, but no one wants to talk about that.


How many deaths could have spare if the meda told people exactly how this disease was most likely to spread instead of being worried about "mainstreaming" some types of activities.

Should the media and various gay lobby groups be held accountable? I think so. Their public policy choices caused many deaths.

Personally speaking, I find the tenor of this thread distasteful. However, I will say this:

1) We owe many things in HUMAN HISTORY to many different cultures and peoples.

2) It's pretty sad that people try to define others by the amount of melanin in their skin.

3) Keep it civil, or I'll go medieval on your butts; and I am colorblind.

Personally speaking, I find the tenor of this thread distasteful. However, I will say this:

1) We owe many things in HUMAN HISTORY to many different cultures and peoples.

2) It's pretty sad that people try to define others by the amount of melanin in their skin.

3) Keep it civil, or I'll go medieval on your butts; and I am colorblind.
HUZZAH! HUZZAH! HUZZAH!

3) Keep it civil, or I'll go medieval on your butts; and I am colorblind.


This has got to be the best mod quote yet.

This entire debate about racial and civilizational worthiness is pointless. It's like arguing over whether there's extraterrestrial life out there or whether Alpha Centauri has planets orbiting it.

If there is no way to know a thing for certain, why argue over it?? Neither side has any legitimacy because no one definitively knows the answer. So why waste your time? I see no reason to, unless you guys just like to argue moot points or something, in which case I'd suggest you join Model UN.

To show what we personally stand for to broaden our points of view that may challenge what we hold as truth. Truth, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. To white supremicists, their supremecy is truth. To a black, maybe not so true. But the way we interact with one another, I've learned much in this debate, is never a moot point. We need to be as knowledgable as possible when dealing with groups of people. Somehow, I think people and the way we treat one another is definately not a moot point and more worthwhile than any extraterrestial life or random galaxy, moon, etc. Those are moot points. The way we live is not.

AIDS in the US is a GAY and IV drug user disease. PERIOD.You know what? You and this thread belong together.

Try being a pale indian working at a native casino. First off most think I'm white so even neighboring tribes treat me like dirt. Second, even if I am acknowledged as an indian I am not of the tribe I work for so I'm double dipped in it. I am supposed to uphold the rules and regulations of the casino to try and make money so they don't loose their timber they used to back their loan but that same tribe yells at me when I don't let them take food for free or a shirt off the rack for free. They run to their tribal government and tell on you but then also want the dividends as shareholders. This is what you call....a snake eating its own tale. The nicer I was to some tribal elders [who my mother taught me to respect] the more I got glared at. Loads of fun. I don't know how many times the haunting echo of, 'where's my tribal discount' will remain ringing in my ears.

Personally speaking, I find the tenor of this thread distasteful. However, I will say this:

1) We owe many things in HUMAN HISTORY to many different cultures and peoples.

2) It's pretty sad that people try to define others by the amount of melanin in their skin.

3) Keep it civil, or I'll go medieval on your butts; and I am colorblind.

My apologies Kat, for I never intended this thread to offend anyone. I'm not one to divide the sub-races of humanity and call one better than another, and to you all I hope I've made this point clear. This thread was intended to be civil, and I too hope it stays that way. It has my name on it afterall...and if it gets out of control, I'll be the first to report it.

Let me ask you this do you believe in or support diversity?then you must be racist ,logic dictates that much.and if you must root for a team why not your own?
As I was attempting to say before, muticulturalism=/=sectarianism and definately not racism. Acknowledging, and embraciong cultural differences is a polar opposite of hatred. We will NEVER have a completely egalitarian, homogeneous, no-lumps society...that is a mere fantasy utopia, and a very borring one at that.

Here in Canada, we succeed in embracing many different people without encouraging racism, contrary to Steel Butterfly's claims to the contrary. People are not "equal"; they are different.

Good god man, don't use foul changed color text and strange size! The normal works for everyone else.

And I smell propaganda.

Methinks you have a sinus infection.
It's too bad my style meets with your disapproval. If I cared enough, I'd probably tell you not to be so stiff.

Let me just deal with the AIDS thing.

I grew up as horribly misinformed as you did. I was less than 10yrs old when Reagan got elected. I remember growing up thinking that AIDS is a disease pread by sex.... AIDS in the US is a GAY and IV drug user disease. PERIOD. All you people that want to convince others otherwise.... question why you want to do this.

You are misinformed.

http://www.unaids.org/en/default.asp
Regional analysis

Overall, an estimated one third of new infections are occurring through heterosexual contact. In the United States and Canada, about 25% of newly acquired HIV infections have been attributed to injecting drug use. Sex between men accounted for 42% of HIV transmissions in the United States in 2002.

In the United States, around half of the approximately 40 000 new infections annually are occurring among African-Americans (12% of the country's population), with African-American women accounting for an increasing proportion of new infections. Many of the women do not engage in high-risk behaviour, but are contracting HIV through unsafe sex with their male partners—a significant share of whom also have sex with men or inject drugs.

Analyzing data from 11 states, a recent US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention study found that 34% of HIV-positive African-American men said they had sex with both women and men. However, only a small proportion of HIV-positive African-American women reported knowing that their partners also had sex with men. The secrecy surrounding such overlapping risk behaviour seems rooted mainly in the stigma that remains attached to homosexuality. The costs are steep: AIDS is now the leading cause of death for African-American women aged 25–34. According to the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention, some 90% of young urban HIV-positive African-American men who have sex with other men are unaware of their seropositive status. Overall, it is estimated that fully one-quarter of the 850 000-
950 000 people living with HIV/AIDS in the USA are unaware that they are HIV-positive.

Source: AIDS Epidemic Update 2003 and the 2004 Report on the global AIDS epidemic

Let me just deal with the AIDS thing.

I grew up as horribly misinformed as you did. I was less than 10yrs old when Reagan got elected. I remember growing up thinking that AIDS is a disease pread by sex. Heterosexual, homosexual..hell, back then people thought you could get aids by being spit on by a person who had it.

Its possible, but highly unlikey. Highly isnt even the right word to describe it. I remember growing up believing that. I also remember being to forced to go to dinner parties with my parents(both doctors) and all their friends are doctors(was the only way to get out of India in the 60's,70's,80's)

I remember one party when I had my firm belief(because of the Media and m teachers ect on AIDS) and sitting in the living room listenening to the adults. Somehow the topic came up and it was pretty funny cause being a mnority every was a Democrat and the party line of its a heterosexual disease.

One guy said I have never seen an AIDS case who wasnt in a high risk group. Another said the same. And again and again. Must have been 40 doctors in the living room, worked in different hospitals, differnt parts on NYC, and almost no one had seen and AIDS case unless the patient wasnt 1)gay, 2) an IV drug user 3) in a relationship with 1 or 2 or 4) the child of 1 or 2.


Wow, that a lot differnt than what I was told. I was told that some guy sleeping with some girl has a good chance of getting AIDS.

You know what. Thats complete BULLSHIT

AIDS in the US is a GAY and IV drug user disease. PERIOD. All you people that want to convince others otherwise.... question why you want to do this.

Even the Drug user part is minimal, but no one wants to talk about that.


How many deaths could have spare if the meda told people exactly how this disease was most likely to spread instead of being worried about "mainstreaming" some types of activities.

Should the media and various gay lobby groups be held accountable? I think so. Their public policy choices caused many deaths.


That is so not true at all. Not one shred. Was Magic Johnson gay? No. He contracted the disease from casual sex. Casual HETEROSEXUAL sex. Reagan could have prevented it but he did not. He condemned people to die. People got AIDS from blood transfusions. It originated in Chimps, but it's the gay people's fault? It was widely spread in homosexuals because of casual sex. Do you think the virus really cares the preference of it's victim? To say heterosexuals cannot contract AIDS or they are not as accountable is a gross inaccuracy and will further spread the virus.

"Many of the 6285 cases reported were obviously infected while they were still teenagers . This persistent, relatively high rate of homosexual spread of HIV disease clearly demonstrates the bankruptcy of current public health policy which relies almost exclusively upon education and condom distribution to stop further spread of the epidemic.... rather than utilizing routine, voluntary testing of the population, contact tracing and partner notification as was used so successfully against the syphilis epidemic in decades past.
Among girls, HIV reporting statistics reveal that the primary means of spread of HIV disease is heterosexual. 42% of all HIV cases in girls 13-19 and 40% of all cases in girls 20-24 were acquired by heterosexual contact"

Oh also, I can't forget about tribal preference. You can have a bachelors or masters degree but a toothless cousin that simply needs a job can become your manager.

snip
please, can you tone down the ego? the font really is a bit annoying.

Here in Canada, we succeed in embracing many different people without encouraging racism, contrary to Steel Butterfly's claims to the contrary. People are not "equal"; they are different.

Bah...races are equal...people aren't. Read my first post again.

People are seperated by looks, intelligence, personality, and the society they are brought up in. I never said all people are equal, hell, most people on NS call me arrogant to be exact, and that I put myself above others. In regards to equality, I just said that race shouldn't be a determining factor either way, white to black or black to white.

As fun as it was, I'm off. My morals and quotes are based upon my personal beliefs and faith. This is starting to get out of hand due to ignorance and moot squabbles such as font color or size. If font color is such a big deal...then how can anyone preach skin color isn't? It's that type of thinking that brought up the subject.

To those intellects, thank you for your insights, as I will welcome you to mine.

To those ignorant...you're ignorant.

Bah...races are equal...people aren't. Read my first post again.

People are seperated by looks, intelligence, personality, and the society they are brought up in. I never said all people are equal, hell, most people on NS call me arrogant to be exact, and that I put myself above others. In regards to equality, I just said that race shouldn't be a determining factor either way, white to black or black to white.
Your aspiration is commendable, and I share it. But as you say abouve, people are seperated by various factors...where they were brought up and looks being two of them; those two things being historically related. We are not at a point in history where race is irrelevant to a person's prospects, and when we reach the point that it is, some measures won't be nessesary anymore.
On a slightly diffferent topic taht some posters have raised, I maintain that cultural practices should be preserved, not obliterated in the name of equality.

Funny, so does Ban. If a = b and b = c than a = c. Simple logical law. The special groups are there to spread the ideas. If you get rid of one you get rid of the other. You advocate racism but not racists?? How can you try to ban a group but not their ideal?

Oh for christ's sake get off it. Stop trying to nitpick my words and look at the big picture.

I'm not for racism. I'm not racist. I'm not for "reverse racism." I'm not, and couldn't be, a "reverse racist." I'm neither a fan of the KKK or the NAACP, for while the later is more civil and learned in their approach, they all spread a message of classification by race.

I'm fine with black people, or any other minority, wanting to be equal. This is the ideal that I "wouldn't want to ban." However, most minority or majority groups don't have this goal in mind, so I say to hell with them. As I said, racial equality isn't "one upping" someone else, it's what it is: racial equality.

Your aspiration is commendable, and I share it. But as you say abouve, people are seperated by various factors...where they were brought up and looks being two of them; those two things being historically related. We are not at a point in history where race is irrelevant to a person's prospects, and when we reach the point that it is, some measures won't be nessesary anymore.

My point is, the "measures" that are being taken only reinforce the racial differences between the various groups. Why celebrate "black history" at all? Why not celebrate all history, side by side?

fuckmonkey

That is my new favorite word.

That is my new favorite word.

The post which I quoted in my new favorite spam quote. Stay on topic. Post what is relevant.

Steel Butterfly, of all the responses that you have received and will continue to receive on this thread, I hope you take special note of mine. This issue is quite troubling and I agree with you entirely.

There is not one thing in your statement that I find false or difficult to accept. The very term "cater to minorities" I have used time and time again - it is refreshing to find someone else in this twisted liberal network who has a correct understanding of the idiotic social concept of "political correctness."

As a determinist, a cohesivist, and a conservative, I salute you for a very original statement.

Yes, why have a "Black History Month" or an "Hispanic History Day," or whatever the stupid thing is called? It doens't make sense.

Also, why bother having idiotic things in universities like "women's studies," "black studies," "Native American" studies - what the hell? What, people can't do math, so they pass on pandering garbage like this?

Gi'me a break...

You know what? You and this thread belong together.

I dont even understand if you mean that as an insult or not. I am assuming you do because that is the first reponse of everyone I ever said this to.

If You fail to accept reality, thats your issue. The stats a easy enough to google. The reality is easy enough to google.

The harm isnt so easy to google because it happened before google and yahoo. It happened when I was growing up and there was no world wide web and the media stressed that certan types of behaviour didnt lead to increased risks.

They didnt point out that unproctected anal sex hax man multiples of magnitude greater probabality of AIDS transmissions than anything else. They said this even years after they knew better because they didnt want to stigmatize homosexual behaviour. So instead thousand must die because certain people they dont want to point out the risks of certains types of behaviour.

Wow, wont god(in whom I dont believe) be pleased by their actions. Thousands should die so a certain type of behaviour is not asked to adjust their behaviour(wearing condoms).

I suppose gay men and women dont deserve to be told the hold truth, because they couldnt handle it. I dont sympathize with homosexuals and I thing thats a bullshit argument(people are people nothing more or less), yet its okay that the media spins you a long one.

Which one of us is biased BTW? the ones who spin fairy tails or the ones who deal in reality?

My point is, the "measures" that are being taken only reinforce the racial differences between the various groups. Why celebrate "black history" at all? Why not celebrate all history, side by side?
Being from canada, I've never seen BET or some of the other minority media and such people have objected to. Still, I don't understand why Black history should not be studied, just as Jewish history, women's studies, chinese mideivalism, and other particular feilds are. These groups have unique stories that are linked to their religion, culture, and even perception by others, whatever, and I see no problem in recognizing that! I don't think homogenization is a worthy social aim, and frankly "celebrating all history sisde by side" is just as meaningless and unproductive statement as some of the absurd politacally correct catchphrases flying around.

What, people can't do math, so they pass on pandering garbage like this?

Watch yourself, lol. I'm a political science major. Math isn't my...ahem...strongest class.

Steel Butterfly I think I understand what you are trying to say in your post. It seems to me you are saying that the world is too small for us to be concerned just with our own narrow personel needs and concerns, that we should have a world embracing vision, that we need to realize that humanity is interdependent and linked in almost everyway economically, socially, genetically and politically (Do I have too many l's in those words?).

I believe Steel Butterfly that you are asking us to put aside our differences, to see all humans as our brothers, to sacrifice our selfish, personel needs for the greater needs of the whole. You are speaking in truly altrustic terms; and I applaud you for your thoughts and ideas. I fact over 150 years ago the founder of the Bahai Faith called upon all of humanity to begin to act and think in a similiar manner. I call upon all NSers to take up service to humankind as the primary focus of their lives.

"That one indeed is a man who, today, dedicateth himself to the service of the entire human race. The Great Being saith: Blessed and happy is he that ariseth to promote the best interests of the peoples and kindreds of the earth. In another passage He hath proclaimed: It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."

(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 249)

Steel Butterfly I think I understand what you are trying to say in your post. It seems to me you are saying that the world is too small for us to be concerned just with our own narrow personel needs and concerns, that we should have a world embracing vision, that we need to realize that humanity is interdependent and linked in almost everyway economically, socially, genetically and politically (Do I have too many l's in those words?).

I believe Steel Butterfly that you are asking us to put aside our differences, to see all humans as our brothers, to sacrifice our selfish, personel needs for the greater needs of the whole. You are speaking in truly altrustic terms; and I applaud you for your thoughts and ideas. I fact over 150 years ago the founder of the Bahai Faith called upon all of humanity to begin to act and think in a similiar manner. I call upon all NSers to take up service to humankind as the primary focus of their lives.

"That one indeed is a man who, today, dedicateth himself to the service of the entire human race. The Great Being saith: Blessed and happy is he that ariseth to promote the best interests of the peoples and kindreds of the earth. In another passage He hath proclaimed: It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."

(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 249)
You may have gotten Steel butterflies ultimate agenda down, and an admirable one it is, but why do your comments too often turn into sales pitches?
(BTW the Bahai gardens in Haifa are one of the more beautiful places i've ever been to)

Oh for christ's sake get off it. Stop trying to nitpick my words and look at the big picture.

I'm not for racism. I'm not racist. I'm not for "reverse racism." I'm not, and couldn't be, a "reverse racist." I'm neither a fan of the KKK or the NAACP, for while the later is more civil and learned in their approach, they all spread a message of classification by race.

I'm fine with black people, or any other minority, wanting to be equal. This is the ideal that I "wouldn't want to ban." However, most minority or majority groups don't have this goal in mind, so I say to hell with them. As I said, racial equality isn't "one upping" someone else, it's what it is: racial equality.

I am sure minorities are glad that you are "fine with [them] wanting to be equal." As you have made clear that minorities don't understand what is best for them, I ask you -- once again -- how you would achieve this equality to which you claim is "fine." Apparently advocating for one's oppressed people isn't acceptable. How would you solve the serious and pervasive racism and sexism that exists?

I'm curious as to what exactly the NAACP has done to be classified with the KKK or to spread the "message of classification by race."

It is easy to give lip-service to equality why bashing those who strive to achieve equality. Try giving even the slightest inkling that you aren't merely mouthing the words in order to justify bashing minorities. The NAACP has a noble history of seeking equality for all. You don't. You'd better explain.

hear hear!! Right on Cat.

You may have gotten Steel butterflies ultimate agenda down, and an admirable one it is, but why do your comments too often turn into sales pitches?
(BTW the Bahai gardens in Haifa are one of the more beautiful places i've ever been to)

Call it a sales pitch if you want. But it is my opinion that I want to share. So many of the questions that come up here have answers, solutions that if they were applied the world would be in much better shape. If I did not mention the source of the ideas I would be depriving people of a chance to decide for themselves. They don't have read if they don't want to.

I was in Haifa this past June and lovely it certainly is. Built with money only contibuted by Bahais. Have you seen photos of the temple in India? It is breathe taking.

All you people claiming to not be sexist, racist, and etcetera are donig a pretty damn good job of classifying all people in a certain race, religion, or sex as believing or wanting stuff a certain way and are all against YOU. It is not the general minority that want stuff like that, it is the extremists.

Just like the extremists white male Christians who claim everything should be done exactly the way they want then claim discrimination when it isn't. The general "minority" doesn't give two shits if it's called a Christmas tree or The Magical Tree of Holiday Bullshit, it's the extremists who care. Just like its the self-proclaimed neutral people bitching their asses off about the minority instead of shit that is actually happening and who it is being carried out by.

Well spoken truths. Too bad they have been ignored.

(Please excuse my editing them for emphasis.)

Only in America dude. People in this country are spoiled and think they deserve the world.

"I don't get ahead in life because i'm black!"
No, you don't get ahead in life because you're too busy "hanging with your homies" and smoking your crack-pipe. Try getting off your black ass and getting a job.

I don't blame "rascism" for my mistakes. I'm Mexican and never once has it heald me back, what heald me back was not going through school and having no ambition..

But what can I say, people in this country are so damn high and mighty that they want a pity party for every little thing that happens to them. Maybe I should stone the next Jew that bitches about his heritage. Hell, that's what happens to the lucky ones in Saudi Arabia..

I have no tolerance for people that make excuses to subject me to thier attention-whoring. It belittlles us both..

Thank you for proving that racism and hatred are alive and well.

Thank you for proving that racism and hatred are alive and well.

It always will be, just natural for humans, who cares anyway, theres alot worse things than racism.

It always will be, just natural for humans, who cares anyway, theres alot worse things than racism.
oh cripes. not you....AAAAnyway, would you mind qualifying your rather bold statement?

It always will be, just natural for humans, who cares anyway, theres alot worse things than racism.

Looks like you've shown your true self...

This I really agree with alot. why does Black power = pride in ones self and race but white power = racist?\

But what really pisses me off is when black americans cry about slavery. Like they where the only slaves in history. Slavery was going on in africa before the europeans ever set foot in america.
Slavery happened world wide and is still going on in Asia. So why does Americas history of a few 100 years of slavery make them cry so much?
I will say this yes there are several dozen loud-mouthed blacks/arabs/orientals out there that are pushing this viewpoint and keep themselves and the "so-called issue" in the limelight. These people are usually doing it more for themselves and not for the "cause". I know and am friends with several dozen others who have no such hang-ups, though given about half of them are new immigrants, and would be unlikely to take part in a black-pride parade.

This should of course be taken in the context that I am A Canadian and we in Calgary have celebrations for several ethnic groups through out the year and a week dedicated to all ethnic groups who are willing to put up a "booth"/tent/etc.. and show stuff about their culture and their foods etc...

Cat Tribes for President. I_Hate_Cows for House Speaker. I V Stalin for Great Leader.

That is to say, proactive attempts by minorities to gain rights - political, civil and economic - have been necessary, are necessary, and will be necessary. The idea that we can all embrace each other, get along and everything will by hunky dorey is naive at best.

Look through history. If you don't fight for your rights, you get oppressed. It's the law of the jungle, my friend.

Thanks, Trammwerk. :D And well said. :cool:

And thanks also to Potaria and Kreitzmoorland. :D

This thread literally made me puke. :( So, your words of encouragment and your views (along with similar views expressed) were most welcome. :D

Thanks, Trammwerk. :D And well said. :cool:

And thanks also to Potaria and Kreitzmoorland. :D

This thread literally made me puke. :( So, your words of encouragment and your views (along with similar views expressed) were most welcome. :D

Don't mention it, man. I would've posted a lot more in this thread, but I really can't stand to be in it longer than I have to.

hear hear!! Right on Cat.

Once again, the whole only post when you have something meaningful to say thing is still in effect. I don't care what forum this is, you don't spam.

As for the rest of you, this isn't "pat each other on the back" time. Grow up.

I'm curious as to what exactly the NAACP has done to be classified with the KKK or to spread the "message of classification by race."

What does the NAACP stand for? The advancement of colored people. Why not all people? Why only try and advance african americans? Why pick out people, by race, to help?

I agree, SB. Whenever people (such as myself, I am afraid) take pride in how they are of Slavic Descent, everyone is "Go you!" Whenever someone tries to be proud of their Aryan Heritage, they are run out of town as racists.

Well spoken truths. Too bad they have been ignored.

(Please excuse my editing them for emphasis.)

I_Hate_Cows' "truths" couldn't be further from the truth. While I obviously cannot speak for everyone, every word in question has been a purposeful generalization. Obviously people are all different, but just as the fact that a few blondes are dumb doesn't prove that sterotype, nothing disproves my generalizations.

Haha. This thread is friggin hilarious. Where would you get the idea that minorities think we should cater to them? If I'm not mistaken, the government enforces affirmative action, the government enforces welfare. I guess all the white Republicans decide to pass on voting for these issues.

This thread literally made me puke. :( So, your words of encouragment and your views (along with similar views expressed) were most welcome. :D

Aww. How...pathetic. You're too blinded by society to realize what I'm trying to say. Instead, you like all the others are nitpicking my words and the words of others through your quotes and whatnot.

Haha. This thread is friggin hilarious. Where would you get the idea that minorities think we should cater to them?

Open your eyes and take a look around. Oh...and I'm glad you find racism such a...happy topic.

Once again, the whole only post when you have something meaningful to say thing is still in effect. I don't care what forum this is, you don't spam.

As for the rest of you, this isn't "pat each other on the back" time. Grow up.

Hardly spam. Complain if you like. Threatening is just sad.

If you would provide any meaningful defense of your views, perhaps dialogue could move forward.

You have yet to respond to the multiple challenges by myself and others to explain how you would solve the existing problems of racism and sexism.

It appears you are in fact doing little more than asking the oppressed to keep quite.

rac·ism Audio pronunciation of "Racism" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rszm)
n.

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.I've always found it funny how people don't consider affirmative action racism. It is. That's a fact.

Seems some people consider the definition of racism to be:
"Discrimination or preducide against a minority based on race"

Hardly spam. Complain if you like. Threatening is just sad.

If you would provide any meaningful defense of your views, perhaps dialogue could move forward.

You have yet to respond to the multiple challenges by myself and others to explain how you would solve the existing problems of racism and sexism.

It appears you are in fact doing little more than asking the oppressed to keep quite.

Most definately spam, I obviously complained because I wanted to, and I don't see any threats.

I have provided meaningful defense of my views...but you're right...I haven't given a solution.

In reality, it's not my problem...but I've made it my problem and I can accept that. I don't, however, think that a solution is so simple I could post it here in this thread as the "end all." I had thought that I was being responsible for not throwing half-assed solutions out to the table, or at the very least saving myself from some more pointless criticism. Now I'm not completely sure what you want, other than someone to feel better than.

Oh, and thank you Kiwikrog. Further proving my point. The NAACP is an advocate of Affirmative Action, which has now been proven, by definition, as being racist.

Aww. How...pathetic. You're too blinded by society to realize what I'm trying to say. Instead, you like all the others are nitpicking my words and the words of others through your quotes and whatnot.



Open your eyes and take a look around. Oh...and I'm glad you find racism such a...happy topic.

How is that being racist? What I would find racist is your title. Do you really think that this is the attitude of "minorities"?

What does the NAACP stand for? The advancement of colored people. Why not all people? Why only try and advance african americans? Why pick out people, by race, to help?

Do you know anything about the NAACP or do any uppity organizations offend thee? It is just the name that causes you to equate the NAACP with the KKK? I hoped there was more to your view than simple ignorance.

As to the name, it has historical significance. The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People was established in 1909. I hope you have enough sense of history to find the name itself unobjectionable at that time.

Similarly, the historical mission of the NAACP has been laudable. I hope you at least concede that during the period of legal segregation of blacks (and lynchings and other oppression) it was more than a bit reasonable for blacks to seek to advance their own freedom.

Nonetheless, if you think the NAACP trys to advance only African-Americans, you are mistaken. The NAACP has members of all races -- myself included. Here is what the NAACP stands for:

Mission Statement
The mission of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People is to ensure the political, educational, social and economic equality of rights of all persons and to eliminate racial hatred and racial discrimination.

Vision Statement
The vision of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People is to ensure a society in which all individuals have equal rights and there is no racial hatred or racial discrimination.

Objectives
The following statement of objectives is found on the first page of the NAACP Constitution:

The principal objectives of the Association shall be:

To ensure the political, educational, social and economic equality of all citizens

To achieve equality of rights and eliminate race prejudice among the citizens of the United States

To remove all barriers of racial discrimination through democratic processes

To seek enactment and enforcement of federal, state and local laws securing civil rights

To inform the public of the adverse effects of racial discrimination and to seek its elimination

To educate persons as to their constitutional rights and to take all lawful action to secure the exercise thereof, and to take any other lawful action in furtherance of these objectives, consistent with the NAACP’s Articles of Incorporation and this Constitution.

The NAACP has been instrumental in advancing equality for all races. Its legal victories alone form a vanguard of our equal protection jurisprudence.

Here is the NAACP website (http://www.naacp.org/index.html).

Unless you have a specific charge, your vague slander of a nobel institution seems routed in deliberate ignorance and demagoguery.

I've always found it funny how people don't consider affirmative action racism. It is. That's a fact.


rac·ism Audio pronunciation of "Racism" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rszm)
n.

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

Seems some people consider the definition of racism to be:
"Discrimination or preducide against a minority based on race"


I mentioned earlier that anyone attacking affirmative action probably could not accurately describe it. My point is proven.

As we appear to wish to reduce civil rights to dictionary definitions, Here is the definition of Affirmative Action from your same source:


affirmative action
n.
A policy or a program that seeks to redress past discrimination through active measures to ensure equal opportunity, as in education and employment.

....

Main Entry: affirmative action
Function: noun
: an active effort (as through legislation) to improve the employment or educational opportunities of members of minority groups or women

Where, pray tell, does it say anything about discrimination or prejudice against anyone on the basis of race or any other characteristic?

And if you are going to say that is what Affirmative Action means in real life, you'd better back that up with reliable sources.

Still, I don't understand why Black history should not be studied,

There's no such thing as "black history," because there are so many topics - why concentrate on such a generic term? South African, African-American, Ethiopian, Nubian... there isn't just a "black history" unless you're implying all blacks are the same. Thats why theres no such thing as "white history" because there's Russian history, English history, French history.. and why the idea of a white race is laughable - Russian, British, French, Spanish, Irish, etc etc.

The post which I quoted in my new favorite spam quote. Stay on topic. Post what is relevant.

I already did ... there were no replies to it. Anything else would just be repeating myself or repeating something someone else already said.

There is nothing new or fresh or relevant to add to this thread. Trust me. I'm right.

I already did ... there were no replies to it. Anything else would just be repeating myself or repeating something someone else already said.

There is nothing new or fresh or relevant to add to this thread. Trust me. I'm right.

Haha. Keruvalia are you still going to give your kids candy today? :)

It seems that in today’s world, minorities of society want to have their cake and eat it too. Women glare at you for not holding the door for them, but yell at you for doing it as well, calling it chauvinistic.
not to be a pain, but women aren't a minority. depending on exactly where you live, the majority of people are women. so wouldn't that mean that men are the minority expecting the majority to cater to their wishes when they insist that women shouldn't get to have their cake and eat it to? i mean, if the majority rules, then women should get their way on this, and men should shut up and quit expecting to be treated fairly, right?

not to be a pain, but women aren't a minority. depending on exactly where you live, the majority of people are women. so wouldn't that mean that men are the minority expecting the majority to cater to their wishes when they insist that women shouldn't get to have their cake and eat it to? i mean, if the majority rules, then women should get their way on this, and men should shut up and quit expecting to be treated fairly, right?

She's right. There is approximately 2% more females than males. Before dish out some more BS, BS, you should look up the word minority and majority. Perhaps the reason you feel this way is because you are a white male.

Here's an interesting question:

Vegetarians are in the minority, so a call from them to ban meat-eating would be laughed at (probably). If vegetarians were in the majority, would they then have the right to ban meat-eating?

This may have been said already, but if you are in the true minority it is usually the practice of:

" He who makes the most noise gets the prize"

My opinion is that, those in the majority assume they will always get their way, but when they don't, that's when they start making noise, it's too little too late then.

You are misinformed.

http://www.unaids.org/en/default.asp
Regional analysis

Overall, an estimated one third of new infections are occurring through heterosexual contact.

Source: AIDS Epidemic Update 2003 and the 2004 Report on the global AIDS epidemic


Okay, its possible that I am mistaken. What I would like to know is how many of that 1/3 is in a high risk group? As in drug use or having a partner who uses IV drugs. Prostitutes, or partners who visit prostitutes. Though, given widespread condom use I bet that route is much safer now.

Though my statement about aids in the USA was harsh, I did not mean it to imply that transmission cannot happen through heterosexual sex. The point I was making was that if you or partner arent in a high risk group and dont sleep around with people who are, then AIDS should not be a big fear in your life.

And as far as the media back in the 80-90s, I think that if AIDS was dealt with like every other infectious disease, the impact on lives would have been drasticly reduced. Instead, people were more concerned with stigmatizing gay people. I would have preferred a little more stigmatization if it would have meant saving lives.

Democracy, by any stretch of the imagination, is dangerous when there is absolute majority rule. The majority has a moral and ethical duty to provide, within reason, to the minorities of the nation. Should gays need additional protection due to rising trends in violence, is that catering to a minority that needs something? I think not. I think that is just being a good citizen. Same goes for anything really. Of course, the majority rarely caters to the minority. There is a reason why there is a majority, and that is that they have been there for sometime. But given current population trends...Well, the perceived majority in many nations is changing ;)

That is so not true at all. Not one shred. Was Magic Johnson gay? No. He contracted the disease from casual sex. Casual HETEROSEXUAL sex. Reagan could have prevented it but he did not. He condemned people to die. People got AIDS from blood transfusions. It originated in Chimps, but it's the gay people's fault? It was widely spread in homosexuals because of casual sex. Do you think the virus really cares the preference of it's victim? To say heterosexuals cannot contract AIDS or they are not as accountable is a gross inaccuracy and will further spread the virus.

Are you kidding me? Magic Jordan was in probably the highest high risk group of them all. He slept with like 10,000 women. In effect sleeping with all the people they slept with and so on.

Of course I dont think AIDS is gay peoples fault. How can a disease be someone's fault?

I am not saying NOR did I mean to imply that heterosexuals CANNOT contract AIDS. I am saving that its most prominent vector is people in high risk groups the main one being homosexuals and IV drug users. Why, because AIDS spreads through blood transmission more readily than anything else. And there is greater chance of tearing and blood during anal sex. While I dont know the percentage breakdown anal vs vaginal sex among heterosexuals, I am pretty sure its extremely high with homosexuals.


And how exactly could Reagan have prevented AIDS? What could he have done? He might have been a bit slow on the uptake, but in the 80s when I first started hearing about it, no one knew what the hell it was. What it did and how it was transmitted. There were no easy tests for it. Symtoms might not show up for years. Some people(mostly women) can carry HIV and never show symtoms at all. This is RL, not all information is magically available. People work with the information they have, not the information they will have 10-20 years later.


"Many of the 6285 cases reported were obviously infected while they were still teenagers . This persistent, relatively high rate of homosexual spread of HIV disease clearly demonstrates the bankruptcy of current public health policy which relies almost exclusively upon education and condom distribution to stop further spread of the epidemic.... rather than utilizing routine, voluntary testing of the population, contact tracing and partner notification as was used so successfully against the syphilis epidemic in decades past.
Among girls, HIV reporting statistics reveal that the primary means of spread of HIV disease is heterosexual. 42% of all HIV cases in girls 13-19 and 40% of all cases in girls 20-24 were acquired by heterosexual contact"

Do you know why these methods werent used? Because people did not want to stigmatize one group(gays). If it was treated like every other infectious disease, its spread could have been much more effectively contained.

As to the last part, I would like to know how many of those girl slept with people in high risk groups

*bows deeply* Amen, sir. Amen indeed.

And I -have- heard of school(s) in California forcing children to learn the Islamic faith, even to the point of making them do the daily prayers. And these are -public- schools.

I am not saying NOR did I mean to imply that heterosexuals CANNOT contract AIDS. I am saving that its most prominent vector is people in high risk groups the main one being homosexuals and IV drug users. Why, because AIDS spreads through blood transmission more readily than anything else. And there is greater chance of tearing and blood during anal sex. While I dont know the percentage breakdown anal vs vaginal sex among heterosexuals, I am pretty sure its extremely high with homosexuals.
It is transmitted just as easily and readily through vaginal intercourse because about the only fluid that doesn't transmit AIDS is saliva. It is not solely a magical blood only disease

Democracy, by any stretch of the imagination, is dangerous when there is absolute majority rule. The majority has a moral and ethical duty to provide, within reason, to the minorities of the nation. Should gays need additional protection due to rising trends in violence, is that catering to a minority that needs something? I think not. I think that is just being a good citizen. Same goes for anything really. Of course, the majority rarely caters to the minority. There is a reason why there is a majority, and that is that they have been there for sometime. But given current population trends...Well, the perceived majority in many nations is changing ;)

I disagree with your statement that Democracy is dangerous, but agree with you when it is governed by an absolute majority. The reason that Democracy works in the U.S. is because there is the opportunity to make change through voting.(that issue is another debate on a different thread) Hopefully the majority is balanced out by removing from office those who would only follow the majority and who would follow what the people want. (There is a difference.)

"The majority has a moral and ethical duty to provide, within reason, to the minorities of the nation." I agree with this statement as well, but within reason. I feel that all to often the majority does this to gain politically, and to remain in power, rather than for what is morally right.

Man should care for his fellow man. Jesus was the greatest caretaker of people. He provided them with the love and worldly things they did not have. You shall follow his example. If he did not care, you would not be here.

Man should care for his fellow man. Jesus was the greatest caretaker of people. He provided them with the love and worldly things they did not have. You shall follow his example. If he did not care, you would not be here.

As I'm not a descendant of Jesus, I'm pretty sure I'd still be here.

People can only be equal when they are striped of all their personal oppinions, classes, religions, races, and returned to the animal state we all were once in our evolution. In truth the only way for people to truly be equal is if we are all slaves of the state. This proposal, yes a proposal, not a proposal to tear down you existing government or the like, but instead, to think about it.

Which countries have the least amount of racial crime, religious crime, or ethnic crime. The answer is always and will alway be an Oppressive Communistic State.

I'm not saying that Democracy is a failure, it has it's strengths and weaknesses, mostly the government can't protect you from another citizen.

But I ask you to read up on any Communist Country, past, present, if you have the source ... future. And think why is it that in a Democracy, we can't react as quickly to crime as in a Communism. I personally beleive that the Ideal of Communism is perfect, the only matter is that most Communisms turn corrupt. But then again which government doesn't experience corruption?

To end my rant I will state:

Communism= Equality
Democary= Freedom

That is the truth, even within the names meaning.

As I'm not a descendant of Jesus, I'm pretty sure I'd still be here.

Jesus should the world people could care. If no one cared, no one would be here.

It is transmitted just as easily and readily through vaginal intercourse because about the only fluid that doesn't transmit AIDS is saliva. It is not solely a magical blood only disease


It is my understanding that salivia and sperm/discharge can transmit AIDS, though very very poorly.

And no, vaginal intercourse does not transmit AIDS as easily and readily unless the guy is very BIG and the girl is very small.

Blood is the main source, and both parties generally need to bleed. (I think)

ok folks ive read all these pages of this thread and heres my question some of you sounded blatently racist and i am guessing not all of you were white...heres my question why dont you just come out and say it? I mean who really cares if bobby doesnt like joey? Its not like the whole worlds gona end because some people are just a bit more stupid than others... :headbang:
oh yea one more thing i'm from backwood its whiter here than bag coke, but my lord were still pleasent to anybody that walks by us. Which is alot more than I can say for some of yall.

In response to the initial post in this thread:

Absolutely incredible. My thoughts are identical to yours and you were able to put them here so perfectly. I agree with you whole-heartedly as this is the truth and nothing but it.

Man should care for his fellow man. Jesus was the greatest caretaker of people. He provided them with the love and worldly things they did not have. You shall follow his example. If he did not care, you would not be here.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... :rolleyes:

I have never in my life seen a pentagram displayed in a US goverment building.(that includes public schools)


I think he's British. The "removal of Christian symbols" thing is very prevelant over here. There was some outrage over the angel of the North, a minority of paranoid Muslims thinking it was a subliminal cross.

I dont have anything against christians I just cant stand it when they try to play the victim because they are not!


I think you should know that Chrisitanity is the single most persecuted religion in the world. There is more governmental outlawing of Chrisitanity than any other religion and the persecuted church is just as large, if not larger (in fact proberbly much larger) than the free church.

There is nothing new or fresh or relevant to add to this thread. Trust me. I'm right.

Then it's simple. Don't post.

africa is the true homeland of humans whitey are genetic defects in that sithole call eurape tru african civliation has been hidden by whitey all great civiliations have been black africans

I wouldn't call them "defects" just adaptations. Defects medically speeking would imply something disadvantogous or an error causing serious life threatening problems.

Then it's simple. Don't post.

Your responses are, like your rant, one-sided.

You have not once told anyone of those who agree with you to stop the backslapping or to stay on topic.

You rarely respond to dissent except to tell people who don't agree to go away.

Hmm, that is rather like what you tell minorities. You have no solution for discrimination except lip-service that we should all be equal. But minorities should be quiet about pervasive inequality so as not to annoy you.

Those uppity minorities are sure inconvenient.

It is my understanding that salivia and sperm/discharge can transmit AIDS, though very very poorly.

And no, vaginal intercourse does not transmit AIDS as easily and readily unless the guy is very BIG and the girl is very small.

Blood is the main source, and both parties generally need to bleed. (I think)

Did you just overlook Katganistan's post or did you deliberately ignore it because it was inconvenient?

Read (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8535555&postcount=116) and learn. Read (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8535555&postcount=116) and learn.

You might also try looking at some facts sheets from the Center from Disease Control:
A Glance at the HIV Epidemic (PDF only - 80 KB) (http://www.cdc.gov/nchstp/od/news/At-a-Glance.pdf) (Note: 23% of new HIV infections are men and women infected through heterosexual sex.)

Young People at Risk: HIV/AIDS Among America's Youth (http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pubs/facts/youth.htm)
"In 2000, 1,688 young people (ages 13 to 24) were reported with AIDS, bringing the cumulative total to 31,293 cases of AIDS in this age group. Among young men aged 13- to 24-years, 49% of all AIDS cases reported in 2000 were among men who have sex with men (MSM); 10% were among injection drug users (IDUs); and 9% were among young men infected heterosexually. In 2000, among young women the same age, 45% of all AIDS cases reported were acquired heterosexually and 11% were acquired through injection drug use." Note: that 26% of men and 43% of females the source of infection was unknown.

HIV and Its Transmission (http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pubs/facts/transmission.htm)

Preventing the Sexual Transmission of HIV, the Virus that Causes AIDS: What You Should Know about Oral Sex (PDF only - 25 KB) (http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pubs/Facts/oralsex.pdf)

There is lots of easily accessible, reliable medical science on this issue. Educate yourself.

Your responses are, like your rant, one-sided.

You have not once told anyone of those who agree with you to stop the backslapping or to stay on topic.

You rarely respond to dissent except to tell people who don't agree to go away.

Hmm, that is rather like what you tell minorities. You have no solution for discrimination except lip-service that we should all be equal. But minorities should be quiet about pervasive inequality so as not to annoy you.

Those uppity minorities are sure inconvenient.

Bah...sorry I have a life outside of the internet. It's also easter...so excuse my absense of an essay response.

Well this is the first post I've ever read on this forum, and it's a damn good introduction to said forum! I absolutely agree with you - couldn't have put it better myself although I've certainly tried in the past. Now printing off your message so I can read it to all my friends :p

I have provided meaningful defense of my views...but you're right...I haven't given a solution.

In reality, it's not my problem...but I've made it my problem and I can accept that. I don't, however, think that a solution is so simple I could post it here in this thread as the "end all." I had thought that I was being responsible for not throwing half-assed solutions out to the table, or at the very least saving myself from some more pointless criticism. Now I'm not completely sure what you want, other than someone to feel better than.

I would argue that it definately is your problem, as this is one of those issues that shapes the society we live in. As a majority we have the power here, and the responsibility to spread it around untill its no longer concentrated with us. THAT IS STILL NoT THE CASE. I've said repeatedly (at the risk of redundancy, but I have yet to see a good response) that your utopian vision of a homogenized society will probably never happen, thus nessesitating special interest groups: cultural, religious, whatever. When those groups are historically and currently mistreaated, they WILL advocate for their own rights.
Your suggestions that "The [insert activity here] of all people should be celebrated/advocated/encouraged" are laudable, in an ideal world. but this advocacy/encouragement is much more nesessary in some areas than others, and what you would end up with is a shallow survey of every community without the opportunity to go into anything in depth. Often issues are extremely localized, and unique: the issues faced by latino women aren't the same ones faced by WASPs, though both may be impotant and serious.

There's no such thing as "black history," because there are so many topics - why concentrate on such a generic term? South African, African-American, Ethiopian, Nubian... there isn't just a "black history" unless you're implying all blacks are the same. Thats why theres no such thing as "white history" because there's Russian history, English history, French history.. and why the idea of a white race is laughable - Russian, British, French, Spanish, Irish, etc etc.
AHH! I agree! any specialized feild of study is fine with me. I was just responding to Steel B.'s assertion that all history be celebrated together- something that's clearly impossible. There was a time when one person could have a handle on most of the available current knowledge available, but not anymore. There is way to much information out there, and expertise is how academia works nowadays, like it or not.

By the way, Steel Butterfly, I've enjoyed this thread on the whole, and sorry about that one post, since it bothered you. Won't happen again.

Personally, I don't see a problem in taking some pride in one's race or origins. I take pride in being Irish, Scottish, and Brit, for example. But to claim that one is superior over the other... rubbish.

As for race stereotypes... unflattering ones should go, but the flattering ones should be taken with a little bit of humour. Lighten up, as long as it isn't part of some veiled racist insult.

I think Howard Stern once said it best about black men and the rumour that they are more 'endowed' than most other men when he said, "I wish I had a stereotype like that!" (Howard Stern's Private Parts)

Wow. You've managed to mix a lot of prejudices together into that rant. You are so all over the place it is hard to respond.

This is indicative of your errors: you suggest the rich and poor should "come together as people." But the rich get to stay rich and poor get to stay poor. Definitely see why the rich would like that. Not so great for the poor.

The same theme runs throughout. Feel sorry for the oppressed rich white Christian man with power. Boo hoo. His privileges and advantages are being eroded. It's so unfair.

There are these little things called history and discrimination. Although race has little or no biological significance, it has had and continues to have enormous significance. As historian Roger Wilkins has pointed out, Blacks have a 375-year history on this continent: 245 involving slavery, 100 involving legalized discrimination, and only 30 involving anything else. And if you do not think discrimination still ocurrs you are living in a dream world. So do they have a bone to pick, yes. Black pride is a reaction to rebuild a people who are still struggling against de facto segregation. Signs of white pride are all around you. Whites simply do not recognize their own privilege.

Various degrees of the same story applies to all the minorities you target.

the so called "privileges" you say we get dont indicate notions of pride.... and id like some of these privliages described as a middle class student who grew up in a very diverse enviornment going to school with spanish, africans, and asians. (I might add im exposed more to this "minority pride effect" then say the white people who live in white communities in the south and mid-west).

[QUOTE=The Cat-Tribe]Affirmative action is complex. But the simple answer is you probably cannot accurately define it. AA does not require preferences for the unqualified or the less qualified.

Firstly.. it essentailly does.. it takes people in less fortunate circumstances and equates them with children/young adults of higher education expecting them to preform the same because they are put in the same enviornment. In fact in education most studies show that those children placed in IVY league schools because of AA are unprepared for the ciriculum and eventually take 2 to 3 years more to graduate or failout/dropout as a result. These schools are challenging even for children given the "proper" educational background.. how can we exect students with inappropriate educational backgrounds hope to compete.. its unfair to them and unfair to the children of whom were rejected to meet that "quota".

The same can be imposed in the workplace..

Most of your arguements have had their time and place.. But in todays society Im of the firm belif we have largely met a satisfactory level of equality. While I in no way feel we should stop fighting for more, I feel we have reached a point where things like AA and out spoken minority pride are donig more damage then good. None of the white people here speaking out against minority pride feel as though their rights are being infridnged upon or lessened... but they do see the extreme hipocracy the africian american community exersices as they praise things like BET but something like a WET would be blasphemy. And yes many networks do feature whites (we are 60% afterall) but they do NOT celebrate the skin color or their European roots.. they celebrate if anything AMERICANISM.. that is the difference. And americanism includes all minorities, races, and cultures.

Also yes most of our history is not favorable for blacks today.. but that dosn't mean we should be catering to the 15 year old black boys spewing every obsenity imaginable on how he has been treated unfairly because his great great grandparents migth have been slaves... People all throughout history have endured discrimination racsims and enslavement.. why arn't we catering to them... need I mention the jews ? They more then any in this country and around the world have been treated unfairly... why arn't we running to their aid ? why arn't they crying for equality ? or proclaiming the superiority of their culture ? Why doesn't this minority have the needed to be so outspoken as latinos and africans ?

This is quite interesting. Damn my changeable brain!!! Everytime I hear a good argument for a particular moderate opinion I'm convinced.
Perhaps fierce racial pride/advocacy has indeed outgrown its usefullnes. It is often distateful...but still important, I'm inclined to think. I think the situation in Canada has a rather different dynamic, so its hard for me to understand exactly what everyone is referring to.

This thread was going pretty good for a while 'till the people who are blind to reason came in.

Most of your arguements have had their time and place.. But in todays society Im of the firm belif we have largely met a satisfactory level of equality. While I in no way feel we should stop fighting for more, I feel we have reached a point where things like AA and out spoken minority pride are donig more damage then good. None of the white people here speaking out against minority pride feel as though their rights are being infridnged upon or lessened... but they do see the extreme hipocracy the africian american community exersices as they praise things like BET but something like a WET would be blasphemy. And yes many networks do feature whites (we are 60% afterall) but they do NOT celebrate the skin color or their European roots.. they celebrate if anything AMERICANISM.. that is the difference. And americanism includes all minorities, races, and culture
I do not agree with AA; however, I will not pretend that we have a "satisfactory" level of equality. The very fact you are saying that means there is no equality, the only "satisfactory" level of equality is equality itself, there are no different degrees of equality. I must reiterate what I said on page THREE, it is not the general minority whining about this shit, the general minority does NOT care. It is the extremists who complain and whine, and it is the hypocrites who claim to not be racist or sexist that sit around whining against it. None of the people speaking out against minority pride feel their rights are being infringed upon? Then why the hell are they speaking out? If they don't feel threatened, what is the basis for speaking out against minority pride?

The only hypocrites here are the ones sitting around saying "I'm not jealous or feel threatened, nor am I racist or sexist or prejudice in anyway; HOWEVER, I don't think we should recognize minority rights or allow minority pride."

This thread was going pretty good for a while 'till the people who are blind to reason came in.
do you have anything to add in terms of enlightening reason, then?

Down With Political Correctness!!!

Most of your arguements have had their time and place.. But in todays society Im of the firm belif we have largely met a satisfactory level of equality.

Those two sentences are the biggest flaw in your entire line of thinking.

I already gave ample evidence that, no, we aren't anywhere near a satisfactory level of equality, here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8535004&postcount=44).

If you wish to dispute the fact that discrimination is widespread, pervasive, and serious, I will provide more evidence.

Try to reconcile your views with reality and we'll talk.

I'll getting really sick of whites (predominately white males) declaring they know better than minorities how minorities should act and think. It is not pretty.

In the pathetically politically correct world we live in, something has come up gradually though time that's particularly disturbing: the idea that as a minority, you are more deserving that those of the majority.

First of all, I am not a racist, a sexist, or prejudice in any real form. I say real due to certain circumstances involving obesity, but that's not the main focus of this thread.

It seems that in today’s world, minorities of society want to have their cake and eat it too. Women glare at you for not holding the door for them, but yell at you for doing it as well, calling it chauvinistic. Many religions demand that Christian symbols be taken down across the nation, while in the meantime shoving their stars, moons, or pentagrams down your throat. The poor despise the rich, but expect the same people they can’t stand to support them through welfare.

The most horrifying aspect of my argument, however, is in regards to race. I am a true believer in racial equality, and I wish I could prove that if all social stigmas (blacks being more athletic, Asians being better at math, etc.) are thrown aside, and each person is raised similar, all people could be the same. (barring intellect naturally…but that’s just natural selection.) It seems, however, that many minorities do not wish for this same goal. For my example, I shall use the African American minority group.

Black people broadcast the fact that they are indeed black, separating themselves from society, and only fueling the baseless, but very real, racial rage against them. Most of this, as I’ve pointed out, is due to double standards. A “Miss Black America” is standard, but a “Miss White America” would be racist. “Jet Magazine” promotes black culture, but something like “Eggshell Magazine” would simply be a way of discriminating. BET, or Black Entertainment Television, celebrates African’s achievements in film, but if someone dared to make WET, they would be labeled a racist right off the bat.

Why is it that the black minority, and many others, decides to push the fact that they are in fact different, “better” in their views, “worse” in the minds of racists, instead of pushing the fact that they are equal to those around them? Is it all a big misunderstanding? No. Am I just a stupid racist with an uncommon intelligence? Hardly. It is because no ground truly wants equality. Each minority group is put in place to “one-up” the majority it is outnumbered by.

It is only when we cast aside our “black pride” or our “girl power” or our “rights of the working man” that we will truly come together as people, as humans, and not as black or white, male or female, rich or poor, or some other petty dividing factor between us. To put it simply, I’m interested in your response. This isn’t meant to be an essay, more of a rant actually, but it’s meant to inspire debate. Go ahead…post your replies and responses.

I've said something to this effect in public on stage for a presentation and people actually threw things at me. I had a couple of people come after me with chairs...thank God for security.

Jesus should the world people could care. If no one cared, no one would be here.
Actually, I think if nobody cared the world would be a lot better. When everyone only cares about themselves and acts in their own self interest, everyone knows where everyone else is coming from. Total indifference would completely eradicate any hatred in the world. If everyone left each other alone, nobody's toes would be stepped on, nobody would be offended, and nobody would care what the next person did or did not have.

ok folks ive read all these pages of this thread and heres my question some of you sounded blatently racist and i am guessing not all of you were white...heres my question why dont you just come out and say it? I mean who really cares if bobby doesnt like joey? Its not like the whole worlds gona end because some people are just a bit more stupid than others... :headbang:
oh yea one more thing i'm from backwood its whiter here than bag coke, but my lord were still pleasent to anybody that walks by us. Which is alot more than I can say for some of yall.
Huh, you best not be talkin bout me, eccspecialy sence I was talkin bout Communism being the answer to racism, but doubt you were, so I'll leave it at that.

Black isn't scientifically correct either. Black is the absence of pigment wheras Black people have more pigment than do white people thus their darker color.
YES!!! They should be refered to as maximum pigementets.

The only hypocrites here are the ones sitting around saying "I'm not jealous or feel threatened, nor am I racist or sexist or prejudice in anyway; HOWEVER, I don't think we should recognize minority rights or allow minority pride."

I am jelous, mostly of the rich, I feel threatened around those that call themselves "Hard Core Latinos", I hate the french for reasons beyond explanation and I have my own personal veiw on sexism, as if you could acctually hate the other sex, come on makes no sense to me.

But you do have to admit, the reason there is racism is because of those etremists out there inciting the masses into radical ethnic pride. Look at Africa prime subject for over zealous ethnic pride. Or as I like to call it, Ethnic Cleansings. Ethnic pride is good and all, but when it starts changing who you naturally are, or starts hurting those around you, then it's gone too far and must be put to an end.

And last time I checked minorities don't have any right we don't allready have as the majority, so why call it minority rights? Just makes no sence and makes you think if they're getting some right you aren't.

YES!!! They should be refered to as maximum pigementets.

Cant they just be refered to as Africans. The Black people in the Carabian were originally Africans so no problems there. We call Indians/Pakistanis/Shrilankian as genericly 'Asian' and French/German/Italian/Spanish genericly 'European' (note, not Britain, I think Britian does a good job of being distinctly un-european compared to the others)

YES!!! They should be refered to as maximum pigementets.
Or we could just not. If they're ok with you calling them black or African American, then that's cool, but you shouldn't force a title on people. Like caucasians, I hate being called white. Hell last time I checked if you where white then that ment you were an albino.

nobody would care what the next person did or did not have.The problem with this is that I wouldn't care if someone is attacking you, or if you didn't have adequate healthcare and were dying of cancer. Because, hey, it's not my problem.

Ultimately, we should care about the plight of our fellow man.

Cant they just be refered to as Africans. The Black people in the Carabian were originally Africans so no problems there. We call Indians/Pakistanis/Shrilankian as genericly 'Asian' and French/German/Italian/Spanish genericly 'European' (note, not Britain, I think Britian does a good job of being distinctly un-european compared to the others)

Lumping people into general groups is what causes people to feel unequal. Everyone is an individual and thus it only takes away from peoples' individuality by placing them in groups. Grouping creates minorities and majorities.

Hooray for society's need to be politically correct, huh? We'll claim a race if it so suits us at the time. I'm part Hispanic (I know... not a race... just really an origin) and part white, but I always shoot for the Hispanic option because it seems to suit me more at times. But I honestly don't care. Call me white if you want, I don't give a tiny rat's rump. Symbolic ethnicity is a great thing, as is politcal correctness.

Cant they just be refered to as Africans. The Black people in the Carabian were originally Africans so no problems there. We call Indians/Pakistanis/Shrilankian as genericly 'Asian' and French/German/Italian/Spanish genericly 'European' (note, not Britain, I think Britian does a good job of being distinctly un-european compared to the others)
Not really, Pakistanies, like to be called Persan.as for the rest they prefer to be called by nationality. As for Idians, they like to be called Idian, call an Idian man Asian, and he'll go off on you. "I am not chinese you fucking kid, so don't call me Asian, I am Idian ..." So on and so on, Sorry Ashlin, my bad.

The problem with this is that I wouldn't care if someone is attacking you, or if you didn't have adequate healthcare and were dying of cancer. Because, hey, it's not my problem.

What you say is true, but it is an unfortunate side effect. Those who can take care of themselves will, those who can't will be removed from the gene pool.

Greatest land empire? mongols

That would be Britain.

I hate to be politacally correct so I normally don't bring race into a conversation, unless they do first.

Cant they just be refered to as Africans.
No. Thats racist. You pigmentally challenged devil of lighter skin color you.

No, he's right, the Mongols did have the largest land empire, that means that all there lands where connected together by land, not sea.

the UK or Britan as it was known, was a Naval Empire.

Or we could just not. If they're ok with you calling them black or African American, then that's cool, but you shouldn't force a title on people.
You un PC bastard. From now on you will refer to them as:
Black african american maximum pigmented colored negroes.

No. Thats racist. You pigmentally challenged devil of lighter skin color you.
Ah go to hell you pagan fire dancer, if they don't mind being called african then go ahead and call them that.

No, he's right, the Mongols did have the largest land empire, that means that all there lands where connected together by land, not sea.

the UK or Britan as it was known, was a Naval Empire.
Still the landmasses added up to one another was bigger then the mongol one.

You un PC bastard. From now on you will refer to them as:
Black african american maximum pigmented colored negroes.
Ah, blow me. I'll refer to them, as what ever they want to be refered as, if that's black, ok, African, better, Niggar, then that's up to them, no me.

Ah, blow me.
Now you start to discriminate against our rectaly interested citizens, otherwise known as gays, too?!!???!!!

Still the landmasses added up to one another was bigger then the mongol one.
Doesn't matter, the British were still considered a Naval Empire, because they used the seas and oceans to get to their colonies.

because they used the seas and oceans to get to their colonies.
No. They used ships.

No. They used ships.
Yes, but what do they float on, water, and what are seas and oceans made of? Water.

Lumping people into general groups is what causes people to feel unequal. Everyone is an individual and thus it only takes away from peoples' individuality by placing them in groups. Grouping creates minorities and majorities.

It is human nature to group things together. I bet you you can count how many times a day you catch yourself grouping things just in your own mind. Society doesn't exist without groups.

Okay, I've read some of these posts and they had me irked. I'm in a Race, Gender, and Class course right now (political science major here :) ), and let me share with y'all some great definitions that we were given:

Minority: Distinguished physically or culturally, at a socially DISADVANTAGED position.

Dominant/Majority: Distinguished physically or culturally, at a socially ADVANTAGED position.

Institutionalized Discrimination: Described as when discrimination permeates social patterns or institutions.

Individual Discrimination: Unequal treatment of a person by another.

Okay... we can agree that half the world is women, and actually, I believe that it was stated that there are actually more women than men in the world. BUT, even so, women are a minorty as they do face more prejudices in the world than a woman would. Another example would be Black Africans in South Africa. More of them are in that country, however, it is the White Africans that enjoy the dominant privelige there.

To say that the minorities are just being whiney and are just demanding unreasonable things from the majority is ignorance. You have to live the life of a person in the minority to really realize what it means to be disadvantaged. And believe me, the minority does care. You just have to live the life.

Not realy, I'm telling you, to commit an act of oral sex upon my penis, that is what I am tellin you. It also means, shut up.
You can't silence the truth you oppressive, rectaly interest hating pigmentally challenged devil of lighter skin color.

Yes, but what do they float on, water, and what are seas and oceans made of? Water.
And salt.

Yes, but not all seas are salt water, just as not all lakes are fresh water. But that's beyound the point, The british were a naval power, a naval empire, not a land power, not a land empire.

Yes, but not all seas are salt water, just as not all lakes are fresh water. But that's beyound the point, The british were a naval power, a naval empire, not a land power, not a land empire.
But still the biggests.

You can't silence the truth you oppressive, rectaly interest hating pigmentally challenged devil of lighter skin color.
You're white aren't you?

But still the biggests.
Yes, but look at you now, you barely got Ireland left, how sad. Even we Americans held onto our "Colonies".

It is human nature to group things together. I bet you you can count how many times a day you catch yourself grouping things just in your own mind. Society doesn't exist without groups.

There's a difference between me creating groups to make my thought processing more efficient and creating groups that are adopted by society.

Hypothetically, if I want to group Chinese and Japanese people together, that's okay. If society views the two different peoples as one and the same, then it becomes a problem.

Okay, this thread has been hijacked by flamers, but I'd just like to offer that I find these discussions very interesting and involving. Sadly, my mind has been made up on this issue long before I opened this forum, so I was unable to be convinced by the arguements of the forces of "anti-reverse discrimination". But I'm glad that this issue was addressed and considered with a mostly respectful air.

You're white aren't you?
No. Why?

There's a difference between me creating groups to make my thought processing more efficient and creating groups that are adopted by society.

Hypothetically, if I want to group Chinese and Japanese people together, that's okay. If society views the two different peoples as one and the same, then it becomes a problem.

That wasn't the point I was going for necessarily... it's the reasoning behind WHY you put things into groups the way you do... is it based on color? Is it based on shape? Is it based on composition? We apply the exact same thought processes to societal groupings. Can't avoid it. It's human nature that creates society that thereby creates the societal groups that people hate so much and wish we can get rid of. It will NEVER EVER EVER happen and therefore, things like racism and other forms of prejudice will continue to occur. You can offer up that we need to do away with such grouping, but as "logical creatures" we cannot, and therefore, it's truly pointless to make such a statement.

That wasn't the point I was going for necessarily... it's the reasoning behind WHY you put things into groups the way you do... is it based on color? Is it based on shape? Is it based on composition? We apply the exact same thought processes to societal groupings. Can't avoid it. It's human nature that creates society that thereby creates the societal groups that people hate so much and wish we can get rid of. It will NEVER EVER EVER happen and therefore, things like racism and other forms of prejudice will continue to occur. You can offer up that we need to do away with such grouping, but as "logical creatures" we cannot, and therefore, it's truly pointless to make such a statement.

First off, people group things differently than other people. Not everyone groups things the same way.

I can easily understand where you're coming from. However, human nature is supressed all the time in society. Murder and theft, for example, are surpressed by society. Its human nature to take what you want or need, or remove things (such as people) that get in your way. People supress these urges all the time, it's human nature, but we don't necessarily act on our natural reactions.

First off, people group things differently than other people. Not everyone groups things the same way.

I can easily understand where you're coming from. However, human nature is supressed all the time in society. Murder and theft, for example, are surpressed by society. Its human nature to take what you want or need, or remove things (such as people) that get in your way. People supress these urges all the time, it's human nature, but we don't necessarily act on our natural reactions.

Purely stating that this is one thing that you cannot ever supress no matter how hard you try. Grouping happens regardless... nothing like murder and theft... those are things you do consciously... you must make a decision within your own mind to think of it, to plan it out, and execute it. Most of the time, unless COMPLETELY diliberate, grouping in society is subconscious for the most part and the way that you do it is, oddly enough, dictated by the society that you live in. This is something you can never supress and the groups will still remain.

Purely stating that this is one thing that you cannot ever supress no matter how hard you try. Grouping happens regardless... nothing like murder and theft... those are things you do consciously... you must make a decision within your own mind to think of it, to plan it out, and execute it. Most of the time, unless COMPLETELY diliberate, grouping in society is subconscious for the most part and the way that you do it is, oddly enough, dictated by the society that you live in. This is something you can never supress and the groups will still remain.

I'll agree, it is subconscious. I know that sometimes I'll think a stereotype to myself when a certain person passes by me. I then immediately try and ponder why I associate that stereotype and make a conscious effort to try and remove that thought from my head. If society cannot helping creating groups, because it is the natural thing to do, society can dispute those groups once they are created.

First of all: I am a straight white Jewish male.


Big deal, over 100 years ago, white christian men oppressed everyone. However MODERN white christian men don't. So why do they have to suffer. And any signs of white pride are considers racist KKK. For example, one black kid came to "Blast from the Past Day" to our high school as a Black Panther. For those not good with history, Black Panthers are just like KKK but black. How come I can't (not that I specifially want to) come in a white hood, since he can come as a black panther?

And what I hate the most, is affirmative action. Why does a black guy, who has the same SAT scores, same extracuriculars, and same GPA as me get to go to a college while I don't, simply because he is black? You assume that he is oppresed, but how? How are black people oppresed in NYC? Sure, some live in neighborhoods with a lot of crime, where high schools are bad, and people who study a lot get beaten up. But he doesn't have to live there. What, they jsut assume that because he is black he lives in a bad neighborhood? How is that not stereotyping?

I agree.

there something in particular wrong with BET? I mean, if there was no demand for it, it would go out of business right? It's not publicly funded is it? It caters to the tastes of black people, whereas most stations cater to white people, so naming "White Entertainment Television" or something similar would be useless (fair enough, because white people are the majority in North America). It isn't as if white people can't watch BET either, my white brother does, but should it try to ignore the fact that it's based on black culture. What exactly is the problem? I don't ever hear Canadians whining about French television stations (which, by the way, are few and far between in English Canada).
The problem with BET is that it is BLACK Entertainment Television. WHy is it BLACK Enterntaiment Television?

Seeking equal treatment, seeking an equal footing would be "reverse racism" and we can't inconvenience the white man. No, giving black people advantage simply based on the color of their skin is reverse racism.

Right, usually the best way to deal with racists like you is in the most unPC way possible. So, if you claim that Negroid is the one true race tell me:
Hows Africa doing buddy?
Africa is doing bad, because they experienced a sequence of unprepared revolutions, and collapsed economy. Not to mention the tribal lifestyle, dometicated economy, and AIDS.

Btw, another question. How come it's "African American", "Mexican Amercian" "Native American", but when it comes to white, it's just "Caucasian"? We are not americans?

Look through history. If you don't fight for your rights, you get oppressed. It's the law of the jungle, my friend.
Exactly, and since white people barely fight for our rights, we get oppressed.


whether Alpha Centauri has planets orbiting it.
Yes it does, they saw them through Hubble.


*SNIP

I saw an HIV infected woman who got it from her boyfriend. With my 2 eyes.

Here in Canada, we succeed in embracing many different people without encouraging racism, contrary to Steel Butterfly's claims to the contrary. People are not "equal"; they are different
I've been in Canada. It's like the issue doesn't even exist there. It's amazing. Cheers for Canada.

Hear Hear! Down with the idiocy that is Political Correctness! Down with the government-sanctioned racism that is Affirmative Action!

concordi!

I am jelous, mostly of the rich, I feel threatened around those that call themselves "Hard Core Latinos", I hate the french for reasons beyond explanation and I have my own personal veiw on sexism, as if you could acctually hate the other sex, come on makes no sense to me.

But you do have to admit, the reason there is racism is because of those etremists out there inciting the masses into radical ethnic pride. Look at Africa prime subject for over zealous ethnic pride. Or as I like to call it, Ethnic Cleansings. Ethnic pride is good and all, but when it starts changing who you naturally are, or starts hurting those around you, then it's gone too far and must be put to an end.

And last time I checked minorities don't have any right we don't allready have as the majority, so why call it minority rights? Just makes no sence and makes you think if they're getting some right you aren't.

1. Racism only exists because of excessive minority pride. :headbang:

2. Minorities shouldn't ask for equal rights, because it makes the majority think they are discriminated against. :headbang:

AFFIRMATIVE ACTION IS NOT RACISM! It is designed to make sure that minorities could get jobs when there were none in the inner cities where they lived. It, in no way, is supposed to keep perfectly qualified people out of the position, but in a close tie of qualification between two applicants, the one with a minority standing is to be given the position granted the hiring firm has a lack of minority representation. And even then, it was more meant for WOMEN to recieve fair treatment in the workplace! I swear... no one has a freaking clue what AA really is, but are sure that it can't be good cause it does favor minorities in some occasions...

All the government tries to do is make it so that ethnic minorities and women can recieve more equal treatment... and if you look at the stats that come out of the Labor Department, then you'd see that inequality IS there... and the majority will inevitability bitch and moan about their "rights being infringed upon and thier group being discriminated against" News flash... you're in the MAJORITY! SOCIETY FAVORS YOU! There will be VERY VERY VERY few times you can actually claim discrimination, and if it does happen, which is very little, then go on and raise a stink. Otherwise, sit there and enjoy the other forms of privelige the majority enjoys... little old women not looking at you funny and clutching their handbags, thinking you're gonna steal them... security in airports not eyeing you more suspiciously becuase you are of Middle Easten descent... not being followed by store security more closely because you are "high risk for theft"... face it, AA is just a little cut into what is an unfiar society. Deal with it.

Are you kidding me? Magic Jordan was in probably the highest high risk group of them all. He slept with like 10,000 women. In effect sleeping with all the people they slept with and so on.

Of course I dont think AIDS is gay peoples fault. How can a disease be someone's fault?

I am not saying NOR did I mean to imply that heterosexuals CANNOT contract AIDS. I am saving that its most prominent vector is people in high risk groups the main one being homosexuals and IV drug users. Why, because AIDS spreads through blood transmission more readily than anything else. And there is greater chance of tearing and blood during anal sex. While I dont know the percentage breakdown anal vs vaginal sex among heterosexuals, I am pretty sure its extremely high with homosexuals.


And how exactly could Reagan have prevented AIDS? What could he have done? He might have been a bit slow on the uptake, but in the 80s when I first started hearing about it, no one knew what the hell it was. What it did and how it was transmitted. There were no easy tests for it. Symtoms might not show up for years. Some people(mostly women) can carry HIV and never show symtoms at all. This is RL, not all information is magically available. People work with the information they have, not the information they will have 10-20 years later.



Do you know why these methods werent used? Because people did not want to stigmatize one group(gays). If it was treated like every other infectious disease, its spread could have been much more effectively contained.

As to the last part, I would like to know how many of those girl slept with people in high risk groups

You did say that it was a homosexual and drug (iv) user disease, period. I can only go by what you say. Now who's flip-flopping? Andwho is Magic Jordan? Obviously you didn't pay enough attention to the news....Magic Johnson was the biggest name in basketball until Michael Jordan. Obviously you have some sort of news filter or something.

It is human nature to group things together. I bet you you can count how many times a day you catch yourself grouping things just in your own mind. Society doesn't exist without groups.

Okay, I've read some of these posts and they had me irked. I'm in a Race, Gender, and Class course right now (political science major here :) ), and let me share with y'all some great definitions that we were given:

Minority: Distinguished physically or culturally, at a socially DISADVANTAGED position.

Dominant/Majority: Distinguished physically or culturally, at a socially ADVANTAGED position.

Institutionalized Discrimination: Described as when discrimination permeates social patterns or institutions.

Individual Discrimination: Unequal treatment of a person by another.

Okay... we can agree that half the world is women, and actually, I believe that it was stated that there are actually more women than men in the world. BUT, even so, women are a minorty as they do face more prejudices in the world than a woman would. Another example would be Black Africans in South Africa. More of them are in that country, however, it is the White Africans that enjoy the dominant privelige there.

To say that the minorities are just being whiney and are just demanding unreasonable things from the majority is ignorance. You have to live the life of a person in the minority to really realize what it means to be disadvantaged. And believe me, the minority does care. You just have to live the life.

Thank you. A voice based on education and reason. :)

Don't worry -- they will either ignore you or attack you.

Being from canada, I've never seen BET or some of the other minority media and such people have objected to. Still, I don't understand why Black history should not be studied, just as Jewish history, women's studies, chinese mideivalism, and other particular feilds are. These groups have unique stories that are linked to their religion, culture, and even perception by others, whatever, and I see no problem in recognizing that! I don't think homogenization is a worthy social aim, and frankly "celebrating all history sisde by side" is just as meaningless and unproductive statement as some of the absurd politacally correct catchphrases flying around.
There should we women's studies, Jewish history, black studies, as well as white history/studies.

I am sure minorities are glad that you are "fine with [them] wanting to be equal." As you have made clear that minorities don't understand what is best for them, I ask you -- once again -- how you would achieve this equality to which you claim is "fine." Apparently advocating for one's oppressed people isn't acceptable. How would you solve the serious and pervasive racism and sexism that exists?

He agrees that minorities should be equal to, and strive to be equal to white straight men. I don't see what's wrong with that statement. However, equality is not achieved by giving minority advantage simply because they are a minority.

Cat Tribes for President. I_Hate_Cows for House Speaker. I V Stalin for Great Leader.

That is to say, proactive attempts by minorities to gain rights - political, civil and economic - have been necessary, are necessary, and will be necessary. The idea that we can all embrace each other, get along and everything will by hunky dorey is naive at best.

Look through history. If you don't fight for your rights, you get oppressed. It's the law of the jungle, my friend.
Oh please. People would only vote Cat Tribes because he is black, and black's are "oppressed", so naturally, he has to be the president, not the one who is better qualified. (If Cat Tribes is actually black)

How is that being racist? What I would find racist is your title. Do you really think that this is the attitude of "minorities"? Yes. Minorities in US, as was already stated, are very spoiled, and think that the whole world owes them because 100something years ago, they were opressed.

AFFIRMATIVE ACTION IS NOT RACISM!
Yes it is. We already proved it.
rac·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rszm)
n.
The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
Since affirmative action discriminates against white people, it is racism.

To say that the minorities are just being whiney and are just demanding unreasonable things from the majority is ignorance. You have to live the life of a person in the minority to really realize what it means to be disadvantaged. And believe me, the minority does care. You just have to live the life.

However, how come everyone conviniently ignores all the inequalities against whites? Such as affirmative action, praise of black culture promotion organizations and tv stations, but booing of white promotion equivalents, etc.

AFFIRMATIVE ACTION IS NOT RACISM! <snip> Deal with it.
Mexibainia, you are most welcome to this thread (and back to the forum).
As has been said, afirmative action is meant to reverse EXISTING IMBALANCES, and ensure reasonable representation of diverse groups in powerful positions: employment, government, or educational.

Mexibainia, you are most welcome to this thread (and back to the forum).
As has been said, afirmative action is meant to reverse EXISTING IMBALANCES, and ensure reasonable representation of diverse groups in powerful positions: employment, government, or educational.
I dont care what it is meant for, it is still racism, because it gives minorities a greater advantage simply based on their race.

1. Racism only exists because of excessive minority pride.
And "racism" will only cease to exist when the races seperate.

I dont care what it is meant for, it is still racism, because it gives minorities a greater advantage simply based on their race.
Well said.

Yes it is. We already proved it.
rac·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rszm)
n.
The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
Since affirmative action discriminates against white people, it is racism.

Oh very good... twisting the logic... however Doom, my friend... you are wrong again. Read the whole post AGAIN... it is meant to help aid in discrimation BY the MAJORITY on the MINORITY. Mainly in the case of Affirmative Action, it was women trying to get a helping hand in the hiring process against men, and then it later applied to ethnic minorities after the government found racist hiring policies within the corporate sector. The hiring process was nothing but institutionalized discrimination until AA came along, so in actuality, while the minority my recieve SOME... not really a lot... of favor with AA, the majority still recieves other less well known benefits that you'd have been able to see had you truly read what I had written.

First of all: I am a straight white Jewish male.

Good for you.

Big deal, over 100 years ago, white christian men oppressed everyone. However MODERN white christian men don't. So why do they have to suffer. And any signs of white pride are considers racist KKK. For example, one black kid came to "Blast from the Past Day" to our high school as a Black Panther. For those not good with history, Black Panthers are just like KKK but black. How come I can't (not that I specifially want to) come in a white hood, since he can come as a black panther?

Sorry, but (a) white christian men legally segregated blacks during the lifetime of most Americans and (b) whites and males do continue to discriminate.

And I had white students at my high school (long ago) come dressed to school dressed as KKK, slaves (w/blackface) & slave owners (w/whips). Real cute. And they were not disciplined, told to change, anything. My sister, however, is black and was suspended for a week from the same school for calling another student a "honkey." Perhaps your generalizations don't apply everywhere in the US.

And there is a tad bit of difference between the Black Panters and the KKK. Read a little history.

And what I hate the most, is affirmative action. Why does a black guy, who has the same SAT scores, same extracuriculars, and same GPA as me get to go to a college while I don't, simply because he is black? You assume that he is oppresed, but how? How are black people oppresed in NYC? Sure, some live in neighborhoods with a lot of crime, where high schools are bad, and people who study a lot get beaten up. But he doesn't have to live there. What, they jsut assume that because he is black he lives in a bad neighborhood? How is that not stereotyping?

If, as you say, this hypothetical black man has the same SAT scores, same extracurrical activities and same GPA as you, why do you assume you get to go to a college and he doesn't?


Exactly, and since white people barely fight for our rights, we get oppressed.

Yet another oppressed white male. So sad.

Are you really so misguided as to think your plight is equal -- let alone worse -- than the average black person in this country?

They have these things called books. Read a few on the subject of racism.

And "racism" will only cease to exist when the races seperate.
Way to take Cat's ironic statement WAY out of context.
I dont care what it is meant for, it is still racism, because it gives minorities a greater advantage simply based on their race
Not a greater advantage, it stives to level levels of privelage. The concept of "privelage" goes beyond the isolated incident where AA is employed; it is merely an (imperfect) mechanism to redress existing inequalities.

Oh very good... twisting the logic... however Doom, my friend... you are wrong again. Read the whole post AGAIN... it is meant to help aid in discrimation BY the MAJORITY on the MINORITY. Mainly in the case of Affirmative Action, it was women trying to get a helping hand in the hiring process against men, and then it later applied to ethnic minorities after the government found racist hiring policies within the corporate sector. The hiring process was nothing but institutionalized discrimination until AA came along, so in actuality, while the minority my recieve SOME... not really a lot... of favor with AA, the majority still recieves other less well known benefits that you'd have been able to see had you truly read what I had written.
No, you read the thread again. It doesn't matter what it's meant for. The Holocaust was meant for improving humans, which is, if taken independantly is a good cause, but not by the means of genocide. It can be meant for giving all orphans food, for all I care, it still gives a certain group an advantage simply because of their race/gender/sexuality/religion.

Oh very good... twisting the logic... however Doom, my friend... you are wrong again. Read the whole post AGAIN... it is meant to help aid in discrimation BY the MAJORITY on the MINORITY. Mainly in the case of Affirmative Action, it was women trying to get a helping hand in the hiring process against men, and then it later applied to ethnic minorities after the government found racist hiring policies within the corporate sector. The hiring process was nothing but institutionalized discrimination until AA came along, so in actuality, while the minority my recieve SOME... not really a lot... of favor with AA, the majority still recieves other less well known benefits that you'd have been able to see had you truly read what I had written.

Minorities should have no special treatment whatsoever. Afterall, they are in someone elses' country for Christs sake.
Do you honestly think you should be able to go to somone else country and demand to be treated the same as them?

Way to take Cat's ironic statement WAY out of context.

I took nothing out of context, what I said was the truth....and any educated person can see it.