NationStates Jolt Archive


Guns in a War Zone? Who'd Expect That?

Myrmidonisia
25-03-2005, 15:16
Not Democrat Harry Reid!

From the AP:

WASHINGTON -- Sen. Harry Reid knew he was in a war zone, but he said the biggest surprise of his first trip to Iraq was seeing so many people walking around with guns.

"Every place we went, there were people with guns: men, women," said Reid, D-Nev. "It was remarkable."

As for security, Reid said he found it difficult to describe how tight it was.


Now we have proof that the Senate Democratic leader is out of touch with reality.
Kanabia
25-03-2005, 15:22
Is he meaning soldiers? or civilians? Seeing civilians walking around with rifles everywhere would be unnerving to anyone.
Monkeypimp
25-03-2005, 15:23
Is he meaning soldiers? or civilians? Seeing civilians walking around with rifles everywhere would be unnerving to anyone.

It would be to me, and I'm anyone.
JuNii
25-03-2005, 15:23
Is he meaning soldiers? or civilians? Seeing civilians walking around with rifles everywhere would be unnerving to anyone.assuming soldiers/police. cuz if the civilians are armed... then security is shot to shit...
Kanabia
25-03-2005, 15:25
assuming soldiers/police. cuz if the civilians are armed... then security is shot to shit...

I'd assume that too, but I wouldn't expect there to be many armed women patrolling the streets in the forces- They aren't allowed frontline duty, are they?
Davo_301
25-03-2005, 15:27
assuming soldiers/police. cuz if the civilians are armed... then security is shot to shit...

Then he would of said so poilce / solgers... not people???? or is my logic like my spelling flawed???
JuNii
25-03-2005, 15:27
I'd assume that too, but I wouldn't expect there to be many armed women patrolling the streets in the forces- They aren't allowed frontline duty, are they?well when the front line is litterally at your doorstep...
Eutrusca
25-03-2005, 15:28
Not Democrat Harry Reid!

From the AP: Now we have proof that the Senate Democratic leader is out of touch with reality.
ROFL!!! Kinda like "DUH" :D
JuNii
25-03-2005, 15:28
Then he would of said so poilce / solgers... not people???? or is my logic like my spelling flawed???[que sad violin player] but are not soldiers and police people? if you tickle them, do they not laugh? if you cut them... do they not bleed? if you wrong them, do they not get medival on your punk ass? [/que sad violin player]
Carnivorous Lickers
25-03-2005, 15:34
[que sad violin player] but are not soldiers and police people? if you tickle them, do they not laugh? if you cut them... do they not bleed? if you wrong them, do they not get medival on your punk ass? [/que sad violin player]


If one fires his gun in the air in a forrest, will you not hear it?
Rixtex
25-03-2005, 15:34
Is he meaning soldiers? or civilians? Seeing civilians walking around with rifles everywhere would be unnerving to anyone.

I'm sure he's talking about soldiers, both male and female.

Iraqi civilians are allowed one AK-47 per household for home/self-defense, but I doubt they parade around with them. They might be mistaken for bad guys.

And, I doubt Iraqi women are allowed to carry firearms.
Saige Dragon
25-03-2005, 15:36
"When I joined the corp, we were given two sticks and a rock. And we had to share the rock."
-Sgt. Johnson, Halo 2

Whoda thunk.........
Kanabia
25-03-2005, 15:37
And, I doubt Iraqi women are allowed to carry firearms.

And that's the reason I thought that it couldn't have been police, I wouldn't think women are allowed to over there.

Does anyone actually know for certain whether the US army has women on patrol duty?
Whispering Legs
25-03-2005, 15:42
Most Democratic Senators are hoplophobes. They fear the guns more than they fear people. Many believe that guns induce insanity, and that guns are capable of getting up and chasing you down and killing you all by themselves.
Rixtex
25-03-2005, 15:43
And that's the reason I thought that it couldn't have been police, I wouldn't think women are allowed to over there.

Does anyone actually know for certain whether the US army has women on patrol duty?

There are female U.S. soldiers in Iraqi combat zones. Don't know if they patrol. Now that you mention it, I don't recall ever seeing any video with women on patrol, although I'm not sure why they wouldn't. After all, this isn't Saudi Arabia.

I doubt if the Senator was with a patrol, however. Those kind of visits are strictly controlled. Women could certainly be on a security detail.
31
25-03-2005, 15:44
I would assume Mr. Reid had said women simply as a reflex. It is so drummed into Democrats to be pc in their speech that to not say women when any ANY group is mentioned is unthinkable.
Kanabia
25-03-2005, 15:46
I would assume Mr. Reid had said women simply as a reflex. It is so drummed into Democrats to be pc in their speech that to not say women when any ANY group is mentioned is unthinkable.

And clearly, he didn't think of the children!
31
25-03-2005, 15:49
And clearly, he didn't think of the children!

won't somebody please think of the children? Where are their guns? If children's guns are outlawed only criminal children will carry guns.
Kanabia
25-03-2005, 15:51
won't somebody please think of the children? Where are their guns? If children's guns are outlawed only criminal children will carry guns.

They need a means of self defence. What are they supposed to do if someone holds them up in a sand-pit and takes their toys? The best deterrent is a weapon.
Portu Cale
25-03-2005, 15:55
Iraqui civilians, including women, have access to a shit load of weapons; The reason why they are authorized to have "one AK47" is that, well, they already had them even before the war, its a cultural thing.

The cops that my country sent (and thankfully retreated) there, were always nervous, because every time some Iraq throws a party, they all shot into the air; It was hard to know sometimes when you were hearing gunshots if it was a party or an attack.
Allanea
25-03-2005, 16:01
The reason why they are authorized to have "one AK47" is that, well, they already had them even before the war, its a cultural thing.

Apparently, some months before the war, Saddam repealed all gun laws and let them have at it. It seems that it wasn't enough time for them to prepare and learn how to use them, though. :)

There have been several cases of Iraqi civilians shooting insurgents, so I assume they readily do have access to weapons.

As to the previous comment about hoplophobia, I agree.
Allanea
25-03-2005, 16:05
And a mildly related poem:


Wake up in the morning, get showered and dressed
Before venturing out, some essentials I grab

A folding knife, a PDA, a pen, some chewing gum
My camera, a wallet, keys, and a holster with a gun

You ask why bother with the gun, in our day and age
When hardly any dangers lurk and life is pretty safe

This life is safe in part because we stand prepared to fight
And thugs, who wish to rape or rob, mind the heavy price

But let me grant that you are right, this land is not at war
We carry guns but don't expect to fight some hostile horde

We'd carry still as badge of rank, of status as freemen
For being able to go armed sets us apart from slaves.
Eutrusca
25-03-2005, 16:11
It was hard to know sometimes when you were hearing gunshots if it was a party or an attack.
And there are some similarities at times! :D
Al-Plotting
25-03-2005, 16:22
Before the american invasion:
http://www.informationwar.org/wars%20gallery/south-baghdad_25march2003.jpg
http://www.informationwar.org/wars%20gallery/Iraq-mosul_27march2003.jpg

None of these people holding weapons are military, they are in propaganda pictures but still they are civilian.
The former iraqui government used the natural arab taste for weapons to arm all its citizens into militia so you can bet there are weapons for everyone still today, and that is not counting the weapons depots that the "coalition" bombed and then left open for pillage. (If you think american culture is tolerant about having automatic weapons you must see the arab one. :) )
There are 25,374,691 (July 2004 est.) people in iraq, do you think some thousand of ground troops and their native litle helpers, do you think they can disarm the population?
And let's not forguet the social unrest: if someone dont have a assault rifle in his house or car you may bet he/she is dead meat. There is no efective police, one must fend for oneself.

And who cares if the american shot you dead for carrying a weapon? You just stay out of the american-patroled places.
Allanea
25-03-2005, 16:45
Al, those don't look like AK-47's to me. I think they are more likely Nagant rifles.

http://www.a-human-right.com/RKBA/s_taliban.jpg
Whispering Legs
25-03-2005, 16:53
This is just a classic case of a prominent Democrat and his abject unreasonable fear of firearms.

He's also convinced that firearms are only bad. He's obviously not up with the idea that perhaps a firearm can be used to defend yourself.

That, and he's culturally ignorant. It's not just Iraqi culture where people shoot in the air - it's most of the Third World.

I'm sure he would defy political correctness and oppose multiculturalism in a grand way - and impose his own view of guns on the entire Third World if he could.

What a wuss.
Suklaa
25-03-2005, 17:10
As much as I despise the Democratic Party and the blithering idiots they represent, I still have to defend this guy.

I have many family members that have come to see me and they are always overawed at the security coming on base. I'm stationed at King's Bay in GA, so anyone that's in the know at all, knows why this is important. It's just a different atmosphere altogether to see some pissed off marine staring down the barrel of a 50 caliber gun at you as you VERY SLOWLY drive by. I can't imagine how much worse it is over in an actual war zone. :mp5:
Myrmidonisia
26-03-2005, 00:40
As much as I despise the Democratic Party and the blithering idiots they represent, I still have to defend this guy.

I have many family members that have come to see me and they are always overawed at the security coming on base. I'm stationed at King's Bay in GA, so anyone that's in the know at all, knows why this is important. It's just a different atmosphere altogether to see some pissed off marine staring down the barrel of a 50 caliber gun at you as you VERY SLOWLY drive by. I can't imagine how much worse it is over in an actual war zone. :mp5:
The thing is that Harry has been complaining about the war, the peace, and everything else connected to Iraq for quite a while. To be astonished at the fact people carry guns is just another indication that he hasn't a clue.

Mentioning the Ma-deuce reminds me of the time I was in Kuwait. We had consolidated our position on the airport and were catching some Z's. So was my 50 cal gunner, unfortunately. He nodded off and let loose a burst of BMG rounds into the desert. We were up and ready to fight again, but he fessed up right away. We had some particularly nasty chores for him when we returned to the U.S.
Allanea
26-03-2005, 00:57
Myrmidonisia, your sig PWNS. I happen to know what it is. ;)
CanuckHeaven
26-03-2005, 01:06
Is he meaning soldiers? or civilians? Seeing civilians walking around with rifles everywhere would be unnerving to anyone.
It couldn't be the citizens carrying guns because Paul Bremer's Orders (http://www.iraqcoalition.org/regulations/index.html#Regulations) introduced gun control into Iraq:

"Recognizing that weapons control (http://www.iraqcoalition.org/regulations/20031231_CPAORD3_REV__AMD_.pdf) is necessary in order to ensure a secure environment for the people of Iraq and to promote public order and safety,"
Arenestho
26-03-2005, 01:43
I'm sure he's talking about soldiers, both male and female.

Iraqi civilians are allowed one AK-47 per household for home/self-defense, but I doubt they parade around with them. They might be mistaken for bad guys.

And, I doubt Iraqi women are allowed to carry firearms.
*ahem* "AK-47's for everybody!" - C&C Generals

To be serious, that's rather sad.
Armed Bookworms
26-03-2005, 01:52
It couldn't be the citizens carrying guns because Paul Bremer's Orders (http://www.iraqcoalition.org/regulations/index.html#Regulations) introduced gun control into Iraq:
If you read the particular order it basically defaults for civilians to the previous laws in place. It does not describe the laws it references so I can't say whether it's strict gun control or lax.
Vilius
26-03-2005, 04:40
There are female U.S. soldiers in Iraqi combat zones. Don't know if they patrol. Now that you mention it, I don't recall ever seeing any video with women on patrol, although I'm not sure why they wouldn't. After all, this isn't Saudi Arabia.

I doubt if the Senator was with a patrol, however. Those kind of visits are strictly controlled. Women could certainly be on a security detail.

There probably aren't any women on patrol because it wouldn't be army protocal to place female soldiers in such an offensive position. They don't like the idea of women serving on the frontlines. I think if they had their way, they'd rather not recruit them at all.