NationStates Jolt Archive

Canada in crosshairs as seal hunt activists threaten seafood boycott

Thu Mar 24,10:05 AM ET

MONTREAL (AFP) - In a new offensive, animal rights activists are threatening a boycott of Canada's fish and seafood exports, over an annual cull targeting more than 300,000 seals which starts next week.

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The hunt is the "the largest and cruelest slaughter of marine mammals anywhere in the world," according to dozens of groups, including the International Fund for Animal Welfare and the Humane Society of the United States.

Hunters scouring ice flows in eastern provinces of Quebec and Newfoundland are this year expected to bring the total of seals allowed to be killed under government quotas to 975,000 since 2003.

The Canadian government says there is an abundance of healthy harp seals and this year's allowance of 319,517 carcasses will hardly dent the population.

Every year, groups launch gory media campaigns depicting Canadian hunters bludgeoning young seals to death on snowy white ice flows.

More than 15,000 out-of-work fisherman in eastern Canada took part last year, earning 16 million Canadian dollars (13 million US).

This year, the hunt will kick off on March 29 in the Magdalen Islands and continue in Newfoundland through to April 12.

Geoff Regan, Canada's Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, said animal rights groups' claims of cruelty are completely wrong.

"The clubbing of seals, when properly performed, is at least as humane as, and often more humane than, the killing methods used in commercial slaughterhouses, which are accepted by the majority of the public," he said.

Regan accused opponents of seal hunting of using "sensational images and breathless rhetoric."

"It is especially disturbing that some organizations are seeking to damage a legitimate Canadian activity and Canada's reputation abroad in public-relations campaigns in order to raise money for their organizations," he said.

But, activists are unapologetic.

Despite failing to bring an end to the hunt entirely, similar campaigns in the early 1980s succeeded in forcing the Canadian government to ban the killing of whitecoats, harp seal pups less than 12 days old.

Embargoes on the sale of whitecoat skins in the United States and Europe caused a collapse in seal prices and nearly brought the industry to its knees in 1995.

But demand for seal skins has since rebounded, seal populations soared to more than five million, more than three times as many as in the 1970s according to Regan, and the commercial hunt resumed stronger than ever.

Tiring of this everlasting battle, defenders of the seals are now targeting the part-time hunters' main source of income: the fishing industry.

Canada sold 4.5 billion Canadian dollars (3.7 billion US) worth of fish and seafood in 2004, more than 60 percent going to the United States and 10 percent shipped to the European Union (news - web sites), making it the fifth largest exporter in the world.

While Japan imports more fish and seafood products from Canada than Europe, support for a boycott there is weak, so the campaign will not focus on it.

"The actual Canadian Seafood Boycott will start on the day that the first seal is killed," the activists said earlier this month in a call to arms.

They hope it will take less than four years to convince the Canadian government to reject the commercial seal hunt, but could not be sure even if the public will support a boycott of Canadian seafood.

And seal furs, reaching an all-time high of 70 Canadian dollars (57 US) recently, are back in vogue on fashion runaways from Paris to Tokyo.


Link (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050324/sc_afp/canadaenvironmentseals_050324150528&e=4)

Thoughts?

Well, if they are going to hunt and kill them they should use humane killers like those used on horses. Beating them over the head is needlessly cruel. Where the hell are they selling the fur anyway?

Damned brutal Canadians.. when will the violence end? It's just that culture up in Canada, the kids are raised bloodthirsty, and the politicians encourage it! :mad:

Would it be OK if they were rich baby seals?

MWAAHAHHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA
go nuts americans!!!

That starts on my birthday!
Someone get me a dead seal for a present.

Me thinks that I will start buying Canadian seafood.

Thoughts?I think it's vile :( :mad:

- k - i gotta joke - a baby seal walks into a club -

but yeah... its funny that those animal rights activists are threatening a boycott of Canadian seafood - as if they're not all vegitarians

Humans Eat Meat and use furs for clothing. get use to it.

Humans Eat Meat and use furs for clothing. get use to it.


I think Canada is a very violent society. To stop this madness I think we should get rid of all the clubs and blunt objects like baseball bats. Never mind that they are essential for a sport, all forms of violence can be stopped by removing the tools used!

Well, if they are going to hunt and kill them they should use humane killers like those used on horses. Beating them over the head is needlessly cruel. Where the hell are they selling the fur anyway?

Beating them over the head is a humane death in my opinion. One good hit will kill them instantly.

I think Canada is a very violent society. To stop this madness I think we should get rid of all the clubs and blunt objects like baseball bats. Never mind that they are essential for a sport, all forms of violence can be stopped by removing the tools used!
I hope you're kidding or retarded, because that would explain you...

If they're not endangered I can't be bothered to care.

Goddamn seals.

There's nothing cute or lovable about Harp Seals. They are aggressive, territorial, and not nearly enough of them are getting eaten by lucky Polar Bears to keep them from breeding out of control.

Let's repopularize seal pelts!

if those seals were AMERICAN seals- no one would care. anyhow- i would like to enlighten you to the fact that people kill things. they have since the advent of time and space. now whether its legal or illegal, animal or human, violence or humane, thats a debate that would rage for days. but the natives use the entire seal. its not like they are just beating their furry fat bodies mercilessly to a pulp, and leaving them on the ice.

Its bullshit that clubbing them is humane. One good hit and theyre dead?? What if youre a lousey shot and have to hit them 3 or 4 times? I saw a video once on it and it was horrible. Shoot them or something. Damn...

Its bullshit that clubbing them is humane. One good hit and theyre dead?? What if youre a lousey shot and have to hit them 3 or 4 times? I saw a video once on it and it was horrible. Shoot them or something. Damn...
That's true, but I bet that video was by PETA. PETA..... Stupid eco-terrorists. They say that faux fur is better then real fur, but faux fur doesn't biodegrade for hundreds of years.

- k - i gotta joke - a baby seal walks into a club -

but yeah... its funny that those animal rights activists are threatening a boycott of Canadian seafood - as if they're not all vegitarians

good point about them being vegies

Its bullshit that clubbing them is humane. One good hit and theyre dead?? What if youre a lousey shot and have to hit them 3 or 4 times? I saw a video once on it and it was horrible. Shoot them or something. Damn...

What video did you see? I've seen 'em done in with pickaxes, and it's gruesome, but quick. Maybe if they could kill more of 'em, they could refine their techniques and be more humane about it...you know, get some practice in.

Actually, common seals are listed as vulnerable.

We can already make synthetic fur, there is no need to brutally kill harmless animals. It shows nothing more than ignorance and it wil probably unbalance that particular ecossystem.

If you approve this, you also show nothing more than your ignorance on the subject.

What video did you see? I've seen 'em done in with pickaxes, and it's gruesome, but quick. Maybe if they could kill more of 'em, they could refine their techniques and be more humane about it...you know, get some practice in.

I dunno....it was something in college they showed us. Pickaxe??? :eek:
Sweet Jesus! How bout round them all up and put them in a gas chamber type thingy and put them all to sleep. No cleaning blood off the fur then.

stop whinning. Its called survival of the fittest, the ones that dont evolve die and the ones that do still die. Clubbing isnt a cruel death, its very fast and probably painless. Humans didnt kill all the neanderthals just to stay at the top of the food chain to be whacked down by animal activists most people dont like. By most people I mean me.

Not quite the same thing, but...
Link (http://pix.ryjones.org/POR/PicturePg.aspx?m=2&p=119&a=32)

Actually, common seals are listed as vulnerable.

We can already make synthetic fur, there is no need to brutally kill harmless animals just because some rich vain old women feel like using fur. It shows nothing more than ignorance and it wil probably unbalance that particular ecossystem.

If you approve this, you also show nothing more than your ignorance on the subject. And your lack of humanity.

And if you make sarcastic remarks like "Yes, canadians are raised violently because of the damn politicians and should be deprived of their arms" you are obviously nothing more than angry american rednecks that ride Bush's instrument and that cannot even think of removing the american flag that is blindfolding you.

It is fine to have pride in your country but when your nationalism makes you think you're in any way better than others then it becomes little more than ignorance.

Actually, common seals are listed as vulnerable.

We can already make synthetic fur, there is no need to brutally kill harmless animals. It shows nothing more than ignorance and it wil probably unbalance that particular ecossystem.

If you approve this, you also show nothing more than your ignorance on the subject.

Given my druthers, I'll choose natural, organic, biodegradable animal fur over synthetic fibres that release heavy toxins as they sloooooowly break down over thousands of years. Besides, what are those synthetic fibres made from? Petroleum byproducts (plastics).

If you really believe in this thing called 'ecology', you'll support the fur industry and the Seal cull.

Given my druthers, I'll choose natural, organic, biodegradable animal fur over synthetic fibres that release heavy toxins as they sloooooowly break down over thousands of years. Besides, what are those synthetic fibres made from? Petroleum byproducts (plastics).

If you really believe in this thing called 'ecology', you'll support the fur industry and the Seal cull.

hey dobbs, welcome back!

when are you going to invite me over for a seal clubbing?

Actually, common seals are listed as vulnerable.

We can already make synthetic fur, there is no need to brutally kill harmless animals just because some rich vain old women feel like using fur. It shows nothing more than ignorance and it wil probably unbalance that particular ecossystem.

If you approve this, you also show nothing more than your ignorance on the subject. And your lack of humanity.

And if you make sarcastic remarks like "Yes, canadians are raised violently because of the damn politicians and should be deprived of their arms" you are obviously nothing more than angry american rednecks that ride Bush's instrument and that cannot even think of removing the american flag that is blindfolding you.

It is fine to have pride in your country but when your nationalism makes you think you're in any way better than others then it becomes little more than ignorance.

I heard you the first time, dude. Oh, and nice way to try to staunch discussion by throwing out the notion that anyone who approves the Seal cull is ignorant and lacking humanity. Niiiice.

Actually, common seals are listed as vulnerable.

We can already make synthetic fur, there is no need to brutally kill harmless animals. It shows nothing more than ignorance and it wil probably unbalance that particular ecossystem.

If you approve this, you also show nothing more than your ignorance on the subject.

You are ignorant. Humans unbalanced the ecosystem since they evolved. Humans are omnivores, they eat meat and nonmeat. All meat eating animals are superior in every aspect to the vegetarians and omnivores are the best. Brutally killing a harmless animal you say, alright i will send a squad of people in with their bare hands to punch the seals to death that would be less brutal and seals are not harmless, they are fat and can bite or swim away and drag us underwater to our deaths. That would make a good scifi movie except with a 100 foot killer elephant seal.

Besides if humans dont kill them killer whales will and killerwhales do it more painfully and dare i say dont follow the laws

I hope you're kidding or retarded, because that would explain you...

I see you failed to catch the sarcasm.

The title of this thread is missing the last part; seals need your help because they do not have opposable thumbs. They cannot wield a club and need your help clubbing.

Not quite the same thing, but...
Link (http://pix.ryjones.org/POR/PicturePg.aspx?m=2&p=119&a=32)

Yes, yes i would. Besides meat is the only thing they have up there, do you expect them to grow soy beans?

hey dobbs, welcome back!

when are you going to invite me over for a seal clubbing?

Y'know, I'm probably one of the only people here who's actually eaten Seal meat.

You and me, Legs - ice floe, pickaxes, and a case of beer back on the boat. Let's do this crazy thing... just leave the cameramen back on dry land...let 'em document the plight of uhh, sea urchins...poor little urchins...

stop whinning. Its called survival of the fittest, the ones that dont evolve die and the ones that do still die. Clubbing isnt a cruel death, its very fast and probably painless. Humans didnt kill all the neanderthals just to stay at the top of the food chain to be whacked down by animal activists most people dont like. By most people I mean me.

Yes, survival of the fittest. Have you ever heard of biodiversity? Your survival depends upon it too. You people can't think more than 10 or 20 years into the future.

If you see footage you'll notice that the "clubbers" whack and whack at the baby seals until they stop moving. It's a show of extreme violence and if it doesn't affect you then you have not a trace of empathy in you - also a tool of evolution. Without empathy we would never constitute societies.

Don't know what I'm talking about? Do some research and learn for a change.

Actually, common seals are listed as vulnerable.

We can already make synthetic fur, there is no need to brutally kill harmless animals. It shows nothing more than ignorance and it wil probably unbalance that particular ecossystem.

If you approve this, you also show nothing more than your ignorance on the subject.
wait. you are telling me that if i agree with the violent killing of animals i am ignorant? no. its just a position i support,you acorn eater.i know what it does to the environment and ecosystem. and i still support it.

And if you make sarcastic remarks like "Yes, canadians are raised violently because of the damn politicians and should be deprived of their arms" you are obviously nothing more than angry american rednecks that ride Bush's instrument and that cannot even think of removing the american flag that is blindfolding you.



Isn't the stereotype ussually that the "angry american rednecks that ride Bush's instrument" are the one's that want to hand out arms for free on the streets?

Yes, survival of the fittest. Have you ever heard of biodiversity? Your survival depends upon it too. You people can't think more than 10 or 20 years into the future.

If you see footage you'll notice that the "clubbers" whack and whack at the baby seals until they stop moving. It's a show of extreme violence and if it doesn't affect you then you have not a trace of empathy in you - also a tool of evolution. Without empathy we would never constitute societies.

Don't know what I'm talking about? Do some research and learn for a change.

And a fox shows empathy when it eats a caribu alive? Humans are smarter then you give them credit for. Most animals (cows) are too stupid to live with out human help. Do you expect the inuit to die since all there is for them to eat is whales, seals and occasional hoofed animal?

Societies were created with to construction of towns during the neolithic revlotution when we observed that plants can grow. It was probably seen by a women since the men were hunting mammoths (they are all dead, we killed them all and look no bad things happened). On the biodiversity thing, less seals=more fish, the system always balances out.

Yes, survival of the fittest. Have you ever heard of biodiversity? Your survival depends upon it too. You people can't think more than 10 or 20 years into the future.

If you see footage you'll notice that the "clubbers" whack and whack at the baby seals until they stop moving. It's a show of extreme violence and if it doesn't affect you then you have not a trace of empathy in you - also a tool of evolution. Without empathy we would never constitute societies.

Don't know what I'm talking about? Do some research and learn for a change.

Look, the Harp Seal population was at it's lowest in the 1970s. After getting all the bad press about the annual cull, Ottawa began sharply reducing the maximum number of kills as a PR scheme. Since then, the Harp Seals have gone far beyong their population levels thirty years ago, and the Grand Banks are now gutted beyond all recognition. Ever hear of the Grand Banks? Where there's been a fishing moratorium in pace for the last fifteen years, 'cause THERE'S NO FISH LEFT? WHERE THERE'S A HUUUUUUUGE, DISPORPORTIONATE POPULATION OF freakin' HARP SEALS, now?

Sheesh. Do your own research, and try to think of the bigger picture yourself. When Europeans first came across the Grand Banks, it was officially reported that the water was so teeming with fish that sailors had only to lower a bucket over the side of their tallships and scoop fish from the surface waters.

You don't restore ecological balance by leaving an aggressive species to their own devices. This enters into the realm of wishful thinking. It's not pretty, it's not a Kodak moment - but it's FREAKIN' necessary, buddha.

On the biodiversity thing, less seals=more fish, the system always balances out.
And more fish eat more of what they eat, which means less for the lower trophic levels. Without the lower level animals, the higher ones starve out. Game Over folks.

We have to hunt things for food, look at West Virginia: There is a little thing called hunting season. Why, you ask? Because if the hunters don't kill the deer, they overpopulate, eat all the grass, then starve to death and devastate the local environment.

Y'know, I'm probably one of the only people here who's actually eaten Seal meat.

You and me, Legs - ice floe, pickaxes, and a case of beer back on the boat. Let's do this crazy thing... just leave the cameramen back on dry land...let 'em document the plight of uhh, sea urchins...poor little urchins...

Of all the things that people have to worry about in the world.

I've noticed that people only get upset about the "cute" animals. The same person who will gladly stuff a bite of tuna fish in their mouth wants to save the dolphins and the baby seals.

It's not pretty, it's not a Kodak moment - but it's FREAKIN' necessary, buddha.
hahhahaha. it is for me.

And more fish eat more of what they eat, which means less for the lower trophic levels. Without the lower level animals, the higher ones starve out. Game Over folks.

We have to hunt things for food, look at West Virginia: There is a little thing called hunting season. Why, you ask? Because if the hunters don't kill the deer, they overpopulate, eat all the grass, then starve to death and devastate the local environment.

Humans go fishing based on the population of the fish. More fish=more fishing. more fishing=less fish but the fish will return since there is less seals

Of all the things that people have to worry about in the world.

I've noticed that people only get upset about the "cute" animals. The same person who will gladly stuff a bite of tuna fish in their mouth wants to save the dolphins and the baby seals.

Them specists.

I've noticed that people only get upset about the "cute" animals. The same person who will gladly stuff a bite of tuna fish in their mouth wants to save the dolphins and the baby seals.

Yeah, you never hear "Save the lab rat" campaigns

Canada is great. Better beer than the US, and seal meat.

Canada is great. Better beer than the US, and seal meat.
better looking guys too. and they are taller. oh, and better metal bands.

And more fish eat more of what they eat, which means less for the lower trophic levels. Without the lower level animals, the higher ones starve out. Game Over folks.

We have to hunt things for food, look at West Virginia: There is a little thing called hunting season. Why, you ask? Because if the hunters don't kill the deer, they overpopulate, eat all the grass, then starve to death and devastate the local environment.

Thats like the bio lab i did called oh deer. The others were lucky that i wasnt able to physically harm them. THe levels eventually bounce up.

Canada is great. Better beer than the US, and seal meat.


I'll be visting this summer and I'm gonna try the beer.....but I will pass on the seal meat thanks.....ick

Canada is great. Better beer than the US, and seal meat.

But they fine the church for not performing gay marriages.

How about the german beer?

Our survival doesn't depend on having rich women carry furs over their shoulders.

I'm not a vegetarian, I think eating meat is natural. But killing for stupid reasons such as vanity? Please. At least eat the fucking meat, maybe people could spare other animals that are killed for their meat.

As for killing animals because their populations grow over control, that's probably because their habitat was changed by humans. Probably because their predators have been reduced.

You people are too used to excess. To always have food on the table. You take everything for granted (most europeans do to, but not as much as you).

You should learn how to take just what you need. Maybe the consequences of our actions will bring us nothing more than misery.

But they fine the church for not performing gay marriages.

How about the german beer?

I think I've already posted on another thread (a long time ago), that I favor a certain German doppelbock. But German beer doesn't ship well. You have to go there and drink it.

Are the baby seals gay? Is that why you brought up gay marriage?

I've noticed that people only get upset about the "cute" animals. The same person who will gladly stuff a bite of tuna fish in their mouth wants to save the dolphins and the baby seals.

Okay, here's a great example: Panda bears. Holy Crap, what a freakin' evolutionary dead-end is personified by the utterly USELESS, and horribly CUTE, Panda bear.

If people didn't insist on trying to save this stupid, vegetarian version of the bear, it would have gone tits-up a loooong time ago. And maybe it deserves to do so - ever stop to look at it that way?

Hmmm, isolated species with an overwhelming dependance on one food source - poor reproductive record, even in the wild, and almost moronically stupid due to not having had a reasonable level of predation...fuck 'em. The world moves on, y'know? If they were worth their salt, they'd adapt and change. They don't, so they aren't. Turn the page. A la Dodo bird.

If people didn't insist on trying to save this stupid, vegetarian version of the bear, it would have gone tits-up a loooong time ago. And maybe it deserves to do so - ever stop to look at it that way?


Why aren't more of these people protesting the war? (not that I'm against the war myself, but it stands to reason...).

It would seem that people would be more in tune with trying to save members of their own species, as opposed to driving 1000 miles north to stand in the arctic waste and protest.

Yeah, you never hear "Save the lab rat" campaigns

Actually, I would prefer seeing murderers and rapists being tested on, than lab rats and dogs and such.
They would pay their debt to society by actually helping society. And it would accelerate the long process it takes for medicines to reach the public, since the effects of drugs on criminals are more close to the effects on humans than the effects on rats.

Our survival doesn't depend on having rich women carry furs over their shoulders.

I'm not a vegetarian, I think eating meat is natural. But killing for stupid reasons such as vanity? Please. At least eat the fucking meat, maybe people could spare other animals that are killed for their meat.

As for killing animals because their populations grow over control, that's probably because their habitat was changed by humans. Probably because their predators have been reduced.

You people are too used to excess. To always have food on the table. You take everything for granted (most europeans do to, but not as much as you).

You should learn how to take just what you need. Maybe the consequences of our actions will bring us nothing more than misery.

Ja i doubt you ever took a bio class. This is how the natural order works.

Moderate animal and food population
Plenty food creates more animal
more animals less food
animals die creating less animals and more food
plenty food creates more animals
more animals less food
animals die creating less animals and more food
repeats

seals are killed for their meat and if they deserved to live then they would have adopted. Humans act like animals since dare i say, they are animals.

What humans are animals and should act like animals with alot of free time, but arent we already doing that?

Why yes johny we are.

I think I've already posted on another thread (a long time ago), that I favor a certain German doppelbock. But German beer doesn't ship well. You have to go there and drink it.

Are the baby seals gay? Is that why you brought up gay marriage?

No if they were then they would all be ded. d e d. Ded

[QUOTE=Tribal Ecology]At least eat the fucking meat, maybe people could spare other animals that are killed for their meat../QUOTE]

I have eaten the meat. Will you?

[QUOTE=Tribal Ecology]As for killing animals because their populations grow over control, that's probably because their habitat was changed by humans. Probably because their predators have been reduced.[QUOTE]

Which doesn't alter the fact that you can't just leave the Harp Seals to overpopulate. Hey, wishful thinking - let's like, just let the oceans alone, right, and Mother Nature will solve all our problems for us...the balance will restore itself!

Talk about abdication of responsibilities. We ARE the ones who are ultimately responsible for changing the ecological balance, and it's time we stop acting squeamish about ACTUALLY putting things right before they get WORSE for all species concerned.

Okay, here's a great example: Panda bears. Holy Crap, what a freakin' evolutionary dead-end is personified by the utterly USELESS, and horribly CUTE, Panda bear.

If people didn't insist on trying to save this stupid, vegetarian version of the bear, it would have gone tits-up a loooong time ago. And maybe it deserves to do so - ever stop to look at it that way?

Hmmm, isolated species with an overwhelming dependance on one food source - poor reproductive record, even in the wild, and almost moronically stupid due to not having had a reasonable level of predation...fuck 'em. The world moves on, y'know? If they were worth their salt, they'd adapt and change. They don't, so they aren't. Turn the page. A la Dodo bird.

They are endangered because of humans destroying their habitat.
You obviously don't understand the importance of biodiversity. And what you say show nothing more than utter ignorance.
Don't be so certain in talking about things you know very little about. As for me, I had genetics classes in my biology course.

Actually, I would prefer seeing murderers and rapists being tested on, than lab rats and dogs and such.
They would pay their debt to society by actually helping society. And it would accelerate the long process it takes for medicines to reach the public, since the effects of drugs on criminals are more close to the effects on humans than the effects on rats.

I would (and everyone knows i would) like to see the econically useless and people who fight for animal rights yet lock animals up be experimented on. Although experimentations on humans are inhumane.

What the hell does inhumane mean, humans do inhumane things so that should make it humane but no we must treat animals like humans and humans inhumanly

Yes i know what the word means

Actually, I would prefer seeing murderers and rapists being tested on, than lab rats and dogs and such.
They would pay their debt to society by actually helping society. And it would accelerate the long process it takes for medicines to reach the public, since the effects of drugs on criminals are more close to the effects on humans than the effects on rats.

Which just goes a long way to confirm what I'd already picked up on from most 'do-gooder' nature freaks. The road to Hell is indeed paved with good intentions. Or rather, the road to a draconian police state is...

Talk about abdication of responsibilities. We ARE the ones who are ultimately responsible for changing the ecological balance, and it's time we stop acting squeamish about ACTUALLY putting things right before they get WORSE for all species concerned.

And what do you consider is pulling things right? Continuing to slaughter animals for their skin? Do you think that killing 300.000 baby seals - that have not yet reproduced - is straightening things up?

Imbecile

They are endangered because of humans destroying their habitat.
You obviously don't understand the importance of biodiversity. And what you say show nothing more than utter ignorance.
Don't be so certain in talking about things you know very little about. As for me, I had genetics classes in my biology course.

Biodiversity isnt all to important. Its the niche that is important and there are millions of animals that humans can replace their niche. Lets see them now,
monkey
lion
tiger
Not bears since they are related to dogs who are the only animals i dont hate
cats (lazy)
communists
seals
sharks
others

And what do you consider is pulling things right? Continuing to slaughter animals for their skin? Do you think that killing 300.000 baby seals - that have not yet reproduced - is straightening things up?

Imbecile
the meat is eaten, tree hugger. and, dont take any of the advice on this thread about you championing a REAL cause. i doubt you would make much sense, or be very helpful.

They are endangered because of humans destroying their habitat.
You obviously don't understand the importance of biodiversity. And what you say show nothing more than utter ignorance.
Don't be so certain in talking about things you know very little about. As for me, I had genetics classes in my biology course.

How obvious is my supposed ignorance of biodiversity? Why do you seek to degrade the discussion by calling into question my grasp of the matter-at-hand?

What the Hell use is a biodiverse Panda bear? They have a breathtakingl;y small gene pool, they are hopelessly inbred, and every indication is that even with human encroachment, the Panda's total inability to recognize the natural impingement upon their sole food sources by such factors as natural climactic shifting of their particular slice of the biome would have eventually led to their natural extinction, had it not been for the meddling of humans

And what do you consider is pulling things right? Continuing to slaughter animals for their skin? Do you think that killing 300.000 baby seals - that have not yet reproduced - is straightening things up?

Imbecile

seals have litters of around 5 or 7 pups so essencially 1 impregnated female's litter could replace 5 seals. Sounds good to me.

Which just goes a long way to confirm what I'd already picked up on from most 'do-gooder' nature freaks. The road to Hell is indeed paved with good intentions. Or rather, the road to a draconian police state is...

Actually I don't believe exactly that criminals should be tortured. Nor killed. Life in prison is a much worse punishment for them.

But the best would be rehabilitation. But that's "impossible", right?

You talk about the road to hell to someone that has never commited a crime, that has never even took a fucking chewing gum when no one was looking, that has never hurt anyone intentionally, that almost preaches for peace and knowledge. If hell existed, we would see who got there first, you or me.

How obvious is my supposed ignorance of biodiversity? Why do you seek to degrade the discussion by calling into question my grasp of the matter-at-hand?

What the Hell use is a biodiverse Panda bear? They have a breathtakingl;y small gene pool, they are hopelessly inbred, and every indication is that even with human encroachment, the Panda's total inability to recognize the natural impingement upon their sole food sources by such factors as natural climactic shifting of their particular slice of the biome would have eventually led to their natural extinction, had it not been for the meddling of humans

There natural food source is also grown in a different country from what i heard.

Actually I don't believe exactly that criminals should be tortured. Nor killed. Life in prison is a much worse punishment for them.

But the best would be rehabilitation. But that's "impossible", right?

You talk about the road to hell to someone that has never commited a crime, that has never even took a fucking chewing gum when no one was looking, that has never hurt anyone intentionally, that almost preaches for peace and knowledge. If hell existed, we would see who got there first, you or me.

You. you go around wishing for the whole inuit population to die from starvation and speak about the worst possible punishments.

And what do you consider is pulling things right? Continuing to slaughter animals for their skin? Do you think that killing 300.000 baby seals - that have not yet reproduced - is straightening things up?

Imbecile

Why don't you look out for your own species? Go protect the humans being killed in Darfur.

Not bears since they are related to dogs who are the only animals i dont hate

Considering that hugging trees is worse than hating animals then you certainly arent' normal.

And I don't hug trees. I just understand how nature works, so sue me.

And what do you consider is pulling things right? Continuing to slaughter animals for their skin? Do you think that killing 300.000 baby seals - that have not yet reproduced - is straightening things up?

Imbecile

So, buy Seal meat. Vote with your pocketbook, baby - it's one of the only REAL votes you can count on to mean anything in this day and age. I own some seal pelt - on the sporran of my kilt. Lovely stuff. Wouldn't mind a hat or coat made of the same material.

Yes, I do think killing 300, 000 baby seals goes PART of the way to straightening things up, but I'd prefer it if we reduced the overall population to pre-1970s levels - and then rigorously keep it that way. That'd go much farther to us behaving like responsible people, and properly managing our oceans.

Or do you propose we all hold hands and wish for the best instead? Maybe sing a few bars of 'Kumbaya'? Or really help out the environment by having four-colour print jobs of bloody baby seal carcasses printed on polyester shirts?

I won't bother calling you an imbecile. I'm too humane for that.

Considering that hugging trees is worse than hating animals then you certainly arent' normal.

And I don't hug trees. I just understand how nature works, so sue me.

tis natural for me to hate animals.

Humans are natural killers and dont really like trees to much anymore.

I never said you were a tree hugger

I never said i was normal, in matter of fact i believe i am the last person in my style of thinking.

Why don't you look out for your own species? Go protect the humans being killed in Darfur.

This coming from someone that claims that pacifists are pro-fascists...

Actually, I'm anti-fascist. That's why I hate Bush, your honorable leader.

Yes, I do think killing 300, 000 baby seals goes PART of the way to straightening things up, but I'd prefer it if we reduced the overall population to pre-1970s levels - and then rigorously keep it that way. That'd go much farther to us behaving like responsible people, and properly managing our oceans.

The oil is running out. Not too long from now, we'll be down to about a billion people total, no matter what anyone does. We'll also be living with 19th century technology.

http://dieoff.org

I just understand how nature works, so sue me.

Oh do puhleeeeze enlighten us, o great and noble uberman. How duz nature work, we small-minded troglodytes would just loooooove to hear your pontification on the matter...

This coming from someone that claims that pacifists are pro-fascists...

Actually, I'm anti-fascist. That's why I hate Bush, your honorable leader.

bush fascist?

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHA.

I am a fascist and bush is clearly democratic thats why he was voted into office and if he was fascist then he would reorganize the McCarthyists.

I'll say only this: Imposing a boycott of Canadian seafood will hurt many people that are not at all involved in, and may even be opposed to, the seal clubbing.

Not that I think these people are going to be able to boycott us effectively anyway. If someone cares that much about animals, chances are they're already a vegetarian.

The oil is running out. Not too long from now, we'll be down to about a billion people total, no matter what anyone does. We'll also be living with 19th century technology.

http://dieoff.org

Maybe if instead of spending money on damn wars the government spent money on research of more effective clean energies that wouldn't happen.

And nuclear energy, even though it has many risks, is much better than what we are doing now.

This coming from someone that claims that pacifists are pro-fascists...

Actually, I'm anti-fascist. That's why I hate Bush, your honorable leader.

George Orwell was right. And Bush isn't a baby seal, so stay on topic.

Oh do puhleeeeze enlighten us, o great and noble uberman. How duz nature work, we small-minded troglodytes would just loooooove to hear your pontification on the matter...

The way to enlightenmment is paved with blood.

Besides you know more about the enviroment then he or any other Green Peace (My mortal foe. Trying to save the whales from the japanese by putting their rubber raft infront of the japanese harpoon gun). Besides knowledge is power and he seems to be a power hungry &*^*(%%$*&@

Oh do puhleeeeze enlighten us, o great and noble uberman. How duz nature work, we small-minded troglodytes would just loooooove to hear your pontification on the matter...

Very funny.

But I won't it would be like preaching to doors.

Maybe if instead of spending money on damn wars the government spent money on research of more effective clean energies that wouldn't happen.

And nuclear energy, even though it has many risks, is much better than what we are doing now.

Dick Cheney's energy policy is based almost entirely on a massive program of fission power plant construction, and a move to a hydrogen economy - with the hydrogen extracted from water by using the power from nuclear power plants.

Of course, you can guess which party opposes that idea...

And the US is spending billions of dollars on two fusion energy concepts - the National Ignition Facility and Magnetized Target Fusion.

But you can guess which party wants to kill funding for fusion research...

So, my prediction is that 5 billion people are going to die in the dark sometime in the next 40 years - and the rest of the people will wise up and try to live within the limits - and they'll still be eating seal meat.

Maybe if instead of spending money on damn wars the government spent money on research of more effective clean energies that wouldn't happen.

And nuclear energy, even though it has many risks, is much better than what we are doing now.

so you like energy that kills the land and creates explosions worse the hiroshima and nagasaki when they explode but you want to save the seals

I like nuclear energy but there is one energy source that is much much better called annihilation but we cant do it too much with our current technology.

The way to enlightenmment is paved with blood.

Besides you know more about the enviroment then he or any other Green Peace (My mortal foe. Trying to save the whales from the japanese by putting their rubber raft infront of the japanese harpoon gun). Besides knowledge is power and he seems to be a power hungry &*^*(%%$*&@

You're the self-proclaimed fascist with a bunch of a people on rubber boats for mortal foes and I'm the power hungry characters...

And the way to enlightenment is only paved with blood in the thoughts of the violent.

Oh, and that last comment? Very wise.

Oh do puhleeeeze enlighten us, o great and noble uberman. How duz nature work, we small-minded troglodytes would just loooooove to hear your pontification on the matter...
d00d!! like OMG!!! LOLZ!!! i am, like waiting, 4 him 2 tell us Y we sh00d, like, luvvvv da seals!!!! 1 g00d reason. puhleaze, like, OMGGGGG!!!!

If you're really concerned about the environment, stop buying that non-biodegradable 'fun fur' crap. Yeah it's fun now, but in five years or less, it'll be out of fashion, and even if it gets a second lease on life through a thrift store, eventually the dyes will oxidize, the lay of the fabric will alter, it'll look like shit, and it'll get chucked. Yep, chucked into the landfill. As it ever so slowly breaks down, it will contaminate the immediate area with toxic chemicals, which will in turn slowly make their way down into the water tables, and into the foodchain, promoting such lovely things as cancer in humans.

But apparently animal rights activists are either indestructible and incapable of developing cancer, or they just place an especially low value on human life.

Sweet.

Dick Cheney's energy policy is based almost entirely on a massive program of fission power plant construction, and a move to a hydrogen economy - with the hydrogen extracted from water by using the power from nuclear power plants.

Of course, you can guess which party opposes that idea...

And the US is spending billions of dollars on two fusion energy concepts - the National Ignition Facility and Magnetized Target Fusion.

But you can guess which party wants to kill funding for fusion research...

So, my prediction is that 5 billion people are going to die in the dark sometime in the next 40 years - and the rest of the people will wise up and try to live within the limits - and they'll still be eating seal meat.

how would 5 billion die?
China is 2 billion and poor
america and europe wont suffer
africa would be killed

So important people wouldnt die

You're the self-proclaimed fascist with a bunch of a people on rubber boats for mortal foes and I'm the power hungry characters...

And the way to enlightenment is only paved with blood in the thoughts of the violent.
with that said- when you are conducting your lab research on murderers and rapists, just make sure your court system KNOWS they are guilty.

They shouldn't kill that many baby seals. It would be wrong.

Especially since it's against the law. The seal hunt is for killing adult seals. The baby seals are just the ones that the opponents to the seal hunt bring up because they're the ones that are actually cute. People do still kill baby seals, but that's not the fault of most hunters any more than a shooting death is the fault of every gun owner.

how would 5 billion die?
China is 2 billion and poor
america and europe wont suffer
africa would be killed

So important people wouldnt die

Go here and learn something: http://dieoff.org/page224.htm

You're the self-proclaimed fascist with a bunch of a people on rubber boats for mortal foes and I'm the power hungry characters...

And the way to enlightenment is only paved with blood in the thoughts of the violent.

Oh, and that last comment? Very wise.

Green peace is against the state.

Fascism is for the state
all enemies of the state are imprisioned

And no i am not an antisemite

Dick Cheney's energy policy is based almost entirely on a massive program of fission power plant construction, and a move to a hydrogen economy - with the hydrogen extracted from water by using the power from nuclear power plants.

Of course, you can guess which party opposes that idea...


I am not the biggest fan of democrats either.


And the US is spending billions of dollars on two fusion energy concepts - the National Ignition Facility and Magnetized Target Fusion.

But you can guess which party wants to kill funding for fusion research...

So, my prediction is that 5 billion people are going to die in the dark sometime in the next 40 years - and the rest of the people will wise up and try to live within the limits - and they'll still be eating seal meat.

Why will people die in the dark? People lived without energy for thousands of years. And a big part of the world's population doesn't use energy anyway. They live off tha layeend. Something that visionaries such as the ones found on this thread are destroying.

IWhy will people die in the dark? People lived without energy for thousands of years. And a big part of the world's population doesn't use energy anyway. They live off tha layeend. Something that visionaries such as the ones found on this thread are destroying.

Most of the world's food is produced in the US or developed nations that use fertilizer.

Fertilizer is responsible for the Green Revolution. It's what allows India to make a lot of food.

Most of that food will disappear when the oil runs low, because it will be too expensive to turn petroleum into fertilizer and throw it on the ground.

Imagine a world where 80 percent of the food goes away. And most of the world's transport system grinds to a halt.

Oh, and the wars that come over oil before all that - wars that have already begun in 1991.

die off is just a theory. There was a greater population during the industrial evultion not because of energy but the amount of food and the comfert level of the working class.

with that said- when you are conducting your lab research on murderers and rapists, just make sure your court system KNOWS they are guilty.

If you read the rest of the thread you would see that I don't support that idea of torturing criminals either.

And how many times did the US government kill innocents?

Most of the world's food is produced in the US or developed nations that use fertilizer.

Fertilizer is responsible for the Green Revolution. It's what allows India to make a lot of food.

Most of that food will disappear when the oil runs low, because it will be too expensive to turn petroleum into fertilizer and throw it on the ground.

Imagine a world where 80 percent of the food goes away. And most of the world's transport system grinds to a halt.

Oh, and the wars that come over oil before all that - wars that have already begun in 1991.

The haber process isnt just for explosives anymore

die off is just a theory. There was a greater population during the industrial evultion not because of energy but the amount of food and the comfert level of the working class.

What allows us to grow the amount of food we have today?
What allows us to ship it all over the world where people don't grow enough to live?

I am not the biggest fan of democrats either.



Why will people die in the dark? People lived without energy for thousands of years. And a big part of the world's population doesn't use energy anyway. They live off tha layeend. Something that visionaries such as the ones found on this thread are destroying.
i said nothing about destroying land. i thought the thread was about seal slaughter? which, is done by, and the benefit of, a largely native population- who live quite rurally.

die off is just a theory. There was a greater population during the industrial evultion not because of energy but the amount of food and the comfert level of the working class.

The ammount of food and comfort levels are directly related to energy production.

And if the population declined to 1 billion, good riddance.

If you read the rest of the thread you would see that I don't support that idea of torturing criminals either.

And how many times did the US government kill innocents?

You contradict yourself: Rapers and other should be experimented on rather then the bubonic plague spreaders and shouldnt be killed since it isnt a good punishment and should be imprisined in life since it is the worst punishment you can get
I dont support torturing criminals

see the link?

Go here and learn something: http://dieoff.org/page224.htm

So, the Amish should have died off long ago. There are more sources of energy than the remains of dead animals and plants. If the republicans want a progressive energy plan, then why haven't they increased the CAFE standards for automobile efficiency? 20 MPG average was the standard in 1970, it's now 22.5, huge difference.... :rolleyes:

What allows us to grow the amount of food we have today?
What allows us to ship it all over the world where people don't grow enough to live?
and just remember- the people on this thread rejecting fertilizer, and the way developed nations produce food, are also the first to criticize the US when we dont feed a starving country quick enough, or give aid to tsunami victims, or offer up all sorts of goods for free to third world countries.

The fun would be in getting down to 1 billion. We started the process in 1991. The only question is how many will die in war, and how many will starve.

Time for some genetic cleansing. Not genocide or anything, just plain wipe out whole sections of people, that will make things all nice and perfect. :rolleyes:

So, the Amish should have died off long ago.

No, you'll notice that the Amish are a very small population group.

The rest of the world relies on petroleum to live. And it sold for less than it was really worth - just the cost of pumping it and distributing it - not what it was really worth.

We ignored the warnings that it was running out. The peak of production came in 2003 - and after that, there's only going to be less petroleum and more demand.

Converting the vast oil shales of Canada and converting the coal of the US is not going to be enough to save the whole world. It is likely that wars will be fought over the remaining oil - that countries will hoard food they produce - and very, very likely that billions will perish.

You contradict yourself: Rapers and other should be experimented on rather then the bubonic plague spreaders and shouldnt be killed since it isnt a good punishment and should be imprisined in life since it is the worst punishment you can get
I dont support torturing criminals

see the link?

See the sarcasm? It was a test to see what you would say about my idea.

Time for some genetic cleansing. Not genocide or anything, just plain wipe out whole sections of people, that will make things all nice and perfect. :rolleyes:

Genetic cleansing is called a genocide.

Why will people die in the dark? People lived without energy for thousands of years. And a big part of the world's population doesn't use energy anyway. They live off tha layeend. Something that visionaries such as the ones found on this thread are destroying.

And have you had to 'live off the land' anytime recently? Have you ever had to do so? Y'know, you can - but y'know what else? It bites, man. It bites big time.

It bites having only a campfire to see by at night. It bites having to go out and rustle up roots and nuts and berries whenever you're hungry, which is a lot of the time, considering how tough it is to catch an animal. So you get used to being hungry a lot. If you want something for a headache, sure, you can chew asper gum, but first you've got to find a willow tree. And know what to do with it once you find one.

There's nothing 'visionary' about living off the land - just something slightly retarded. The whole point of human civilization has been to get us the Hell out of the woods, so we didn't have to live hand to mouth on subsistence diets, so we'd have the food energy we'd need to organize ourselves to change our environment in order to accomodate one species - us.

You're starting to sound like the next bit of drivel to fly off your fingertips is going to be an endorsement of the old big fat lie about how native North Americans were totally sypatico with nature, and never did anything untoward to living creatures. O the noble Red Indian myth of the 1800s...how unlike they are to us, how unlike we are to nature, how cruel and unusual we of European descent are...self-indulgent HOGWASH, coupled with still more wishful (and wistful) thinking.

I was wrong to abdicate responsibility earlier on; you ARE an imbecile, of the highest order. Gods help us all.

Actually, I would prefer seeing murderers and rapists being tested on, than lab rats and dogs and such.
They would pay their debt to society by actually helping society. And it would accelerate the long process it takes for medicines to reach the public, since the effects of drugs on criminals are more close to the effects on humans than the effects on rats.
f you read the rest of the thread you would see that I don't support that idea of torturing criminals either.

does anyone else see the problem with this?

It is likely that wars will be fought over the remaining oil - that countries will hoard food they produce - and very, very likely that billions will perish.

What the hell do you people get on your tvs?

Iraq anyone?

Oh, and wars are likely tol be fought over fresh water more than over oil.

And have you had to 'live off the land' anytime recently? Have you ever had to do so? Y'know, you can - but y'know what else? It bites, man. It bites big time.


The best part is that he'll have to eat seal meat.

Genetic cleansing is called a genocide.

No, Ethnic cleansing is genocide, what I sarcastically mentioned is psychotic. See, there is no discrimination of any sort.

The best part is that he'll have to eat seal meat.
now that was awesome.\m/

does anyone else see the problem with this?

I DID AND STATED THAT

What the hell do you people get on your tvs?

Iraq anyone?

Oh, and wars are likely tol be fought over fresh water more than over oil.

That's what I was trying to say. Kuwait. Iraq. It won't be the last, either.

does anyone else see the problem with this?

Did anyone else read this:

"Actually I don't believe exactly that criminals should be tortured. Nor killed. Life in prison is a much worse punishment for them.

But the best would be rehabilitation. But that's "impossible", right?"


It smells like shit in here. Stop talking.

No, Ethnic cleansing is genocide, what I sarcastically mentioned is psychotic. See, there is no discrimination of any sort.

A genetic cleansing is the killing of a specific group of people such as Blacks Whites or Mongoliods

Genocide
geno-looks like genetics does it not
Cide-to kill

genocide-to kill a specific group of people ie Jews, Muslims, Catholics, Irish, Germans, Vikings etc

See the sarcasm? It was a test to see what you would say about my idea.
see that? any one who portays idiocy and uncollected thoughts, and blames it on a test is very immature, quite uneducated, and not worth the time. i say we all leave the thread, and commit the ultimate psycological assault on Tribal Ecology- leaving him/her alone.

The ammount of food and comfort levels are directly related to energy production.

And if the population declined to 1 billion, good riddance.

Again proving my point that most do-gooding environmentalists are closeted fascists who are Hellbent on controlling everybody else's lives, and this one uncaring enough to want to see his fellows used for medical experiments, and further, uncaring for the fate of 5 billion of his fellows.

Yeah, sign me up for PETA and Greenpeace, where apparently people who don't give a damn about other people can get together and tell us all what pieces of shit we are, and tell us how to think and feel and act - but who'd sooner see all of us dead anyway. Great way to get people on-side, buddha.

People will fight more for honor and basic VITAL supplies than oil. It's not very hard to convert an automobile to use alternate sources; it's just not economically viable at this moment. After all, what's the point if oil is cheap and abundant?

People will fight more for honor and basic VITAL supplies than oil. It's not very hard to convert an automobile to use alternate sources; it's just not economically viable at this moment. After all, what's the point if oil is cheap and abundant?

Yes, we'll fight over food.

Go ahead, find a substitute for petroleum based fertilizer. Enough to keep food production at current rates.

A genetic cleansing is the killing of a specific group of people such as Blacks Whites or Mongoliods

Genocide
geno-looks like genetics does it not
Cide-to kill

genocide-to kill a specific group of people ie Jews, Muslims, Catholics, Irish, Germans, Vikings etc

Would it be killing a person SOLELY because of race, religion, creed or gender? NO. There is nothing more than chance that would wipe out a person.

From Dictionary.com:
The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group.
As I said, CHANCE is the only factor, nothing else. Besides, it was just a sarcastic reference to another person's post. Don't dwell on it.

Yes, we'll fight over food.

Go ahead, find a substitute for petroleum based fertilizer. Enough to keep food production at current rates.

Haber Process
Haber Process
Haber Process

Did i get my point across
Ammonia based fertilizer

Just because he was a nazi and used this to create explosives and also made the gas for the chambers doesnt mean the Haber Process wont work for fertilizer that is ammonia based

Haber Process
Haber Process
Haber Process

Did i get my point across
Ammonia based fertilizer

Just because he was a nazi and used this to create explosives and also made the gas for the chambers doesnt mean the Haber Process wont work for fertilizer that is ammonia based

It takes energy to pull nitrogen out of the atmosphere. It takes decades to build the nuclear power plants (or anything else we'll use to replace the fossil fuel plants).

Most nations don't even have the technology to replace their fossil fuel plants.

There will be fighting for freshwater by about 2012, if not, then certainly there will large-scale movements of humans to sources of freshwater. In wealthier parts of the world, expect to see major projects devoted to the distribution of water emplaced, in order to forestall such large-scale movements of human populations.

It takes energy to pull nitrogen out of the atmosphere. It takes decades to build the nuclear power plants (or anything else we'll use to replace the fossil fuel plants).

Most nations don't even have the technology to replace their fossil fuel plants.

You know what why dont we use annihilation.

How about cow feces? Granted, it alone won't be enough, but how do you think fertilizer is made? DECOMPOSING THINGS. Anyone in the world is able to make it. Throw your trash into a big pile and aerate it now and then. BINGO, fertilizer. You can also harvest METHANE gas off the decomposing stuff, which in turn is a much more efficient energy source than other fossil fuels can ever be.

There will be fighting for freshwater by about 2012, if not, then certainly there will large-scale movements of humans to sources of freshwater. In wealthier parts of the world, expect to see major projects devoted to the distribution of water emplaced, in order to forestall such large-scale movements of human populations.

Larger, wealthier nations with high tech militaries and nuclear power will probably survive in some form - although a lot of their current power will be diminished (assuming they aren't destroyed in war).

The rest of the world will perish.

see that? any one who portays idiocy and uncollected thoughts, and blames it on a test is very immature, quite uneducated, and not worth the time. i say we all leave the thread, and commit the ultimate psycological assault on Tribal Ecology- leaving him/her alone.

Whatever. But I'm already alone here.

Again proving my point that most do-gooding environmentalists are closeted fascists who are Hellbent on controlling everybody else's lives, and this one uncaring enough to want to see his fellows used for medical experiments, and further, uncaring for the fate of 5 billion of his fellows.

I don't want humans or whatever to suffer. But population needs to decrease. I just hope we don't bring the rest of the environment down with us or that billion will be living in the barren desert that was once Earth.
I do care about humanity. And I would prefer seeing population go down in natural ways, like people having less children. But I'm afraid it won't happen.

And what do you mean controlling everyone elses lives? I say that everyone should live how they like and do whatever they like as long as they don't mess with the lives or futures of other humans. And by messing with nature you are messing with my future and your children's futures.

There will be fighting for freshwater by about 2012, if not, then certainly there will large-scale movements of humans to sources of freshwater. In wealthier parts of the world, expect to see major projects devoted to the distribution of water emplaced, in order to forestall such large-scale movements of human populations.

Right...
That is why we use water for energy and even have a process for desalting salt water we use on 3rd world countries
we use solar power
water power
wind power
we have many sources that can give us energy.

There will be fighting for freshwater by about 2012, if not, then certainly there will large-scale movements of humans to sources of freshwater. In wealthier parts of the world, expect to see major projects devoted to the distribution of water emplaced, in order to forestall such large-scale movements of human populations.

Dude, the Middle East, especially Saudi Arabia is completely dependent on desalinated water. They have NO natural sources of clean freshwater.

There will be fighting for freshwater by about 2012, if not, then certainly there will large-scale movements of humans to sources of freshwater. In wealthier parts of the world, expect to see major projects devoted to the distribution of water emplaced, in order to forestall such large-scale movements of human populations.

The best way to prevent this, or at least alleviate it, is by taking care of soils (prevent their destruction and pollution) and to stop the reckless deforestation that is going on all around the world, especially in the amazon forest. Forests recycle air and water and maintain soils doing what they do.

We all depend on nature for living. But it seems that a mahogany table would look very good in the dining room... Hmm, yes...

As for alternate energy sources, look up companies such as GE, Samsung, Toshiba, and Honeywell. They are the pioneers in alternate sources.

Right...
That is why we use water for energy and even have a process for desalting salt water we use on 3rd world countries
we use solar power
water power
wind power
we have many sources that can give us energy.

Solar, water, and wind power don't solve the requirement for industrial power, nor do they solve the problem for the power demands of a Western society. Nor do they solve the problem for mobile power - something that petroleum is especially good at. To produce the amount of power necessary to separate the hydrogen for fuel cell cars to replace our current gasoline cars in the US, we would have to produce twice as much power as our stationary power plants currently produce. There aren't enough dams, wind farms, or solar farms you could build in the US to produce that level of power.

Solar, water, and wind power don't solve the requirement for industrial power, nor do they solve the problem for the power demands of a Western society. Nor do they solve the problem for mobile power - something that petroleum is especially good at. To produce the amount of power necessary to separate the hydrogen for fuel cell cars to replace our current gasoline cars in the US, we would have to produce twice as much power as our stationary power plants currently produce. There aren't enough dams, wind farms, or solar farms you could build in the US to produce that level of power.

Tax incentives on solar panels in the home, and make it a requirement that all homes have solar on them will substantially reduce the need for power plants as it is. New market- New economy

Tax incentives on solar panels in the home, and make it a requirement that all homes have solar on them will substantially reduce the need for power plants as it is. New market- New economy

You can't produce enough power for most homes with solar panels on the roof, or in the yard. In most areas of the US.

You can't wave your hands, and for no cost, in no time, replace the petroleum economy with something else.

Just to replace the transportation, we already face a need to double commercial power production. To replace the fertilizer, you can just triple it.

Solar and wind aren't going to fill that gap. Ever. Not until billions of people die first.

We all depend on nature for living. But it seems that a mahogany table would look very good in the dining room... Hmm, yes...

Assumption really is the mother of all fuckups, no? I gave away my glass-and-metal dining room table last fall. I prefer eating on the coffeetable, even if I don't watch the TV anymore. A chacun son gout, n'est-ce pas?

But I'm sure you'd be happier if people were free only to buy products proscribed by Greenpeace to be acceptable to...uhh, Greenpeace. Right?

Ever get the feeling you're headed towards a totalitarian mindest?

You can't produce enough power for most homes with solar panels on the roof, or in the yard. In most areas of the US.

Keywords, "substantially reduce the need" It's used to ease, not replace. Having a home provide most of its power is much better than completely needing it. All we would have to do is increase efficiency of our machines and appliances. Something we neglect to do.

Keywords, "substantially reduce the need" It's used to ease, not replace. Having a home provide most of its power is much better than completely needing it. All we would have to do is increase efficiency of our machines and appliances. Something we neglect to do.

The way the need will be reduced is by removing the people.

Well, that would be my #1 plan, but that won't work. Then you will be called a crazy left-wing, liberal, pro-hippie, (insert political insult here).

Assumption really is the mother of all fuckups, no? I gave away my glass-and-metal dining room table last fall. I prefer eating on the coffeetable, even if I don't watch the TV anymore. A chacun son gout, n'est-ce pas?

But I'm sure you'd be happier if people were free only to buy products proscribed by Greenpeace to be acceptable to...uhh, Greenpeace. Right?

Ever get the feeling you're headed towards a totalitarian mindest?

Actually I think that we should use nuclear power, something that Greenpeace is against.

And you should check my nationstates country to see how "my little playthings" are unhappy.

As for living off the land - Do you think that people were unhappy when living in tribes and such? They were miserable?

Nuclear power is amazing. To top it all off, it is the most efficient energy source we have at the moment. Screw burning dead animal remains.

Well, that would be my #1 plan, but that won't work. Then you will be called a crazy left-wing, liberal, pro-hippie, (insert political insult here).

No, that's what the free market is going to do - initially. Then, as people panic, they'll do the left-wing thing and try to force people to eat less and consume less energy. They'll have to kill people, eventually, in order to "stave off disaster" in the interest of the "greater good".

Both right and left will get their share of the credit for wiping out the majority of the human race.

You know, powered by that same enlightened interest that drives some to protest the killing of baby seals.

In the future, some of those protesters may be forced to eat seal meat - because it will be that or starve. I wonder what choice they will make - shoot their children to save the seals, or eat the seals to stay alive.

All I know is, that when the petroleum economy fails, and we revert to the Goat-based system, I'll be a King. :)

Also, my milk farm grows fine without fertilizer... meh.

Do you think that people were unhappy when living in tribes and such? They were miserable?

Yes, I think they were so wretchedly unhappy and miserable that they had an incredible impetus to cut down the woods, stop foraging and start sowing crops, and otherwise remove themselves from the bloody wilderness and start building human cities.

Otherwise, why would anyone have bothered to hang around civilizations? Why wouldn't cities have been abandoned for the noble life of the hand-to-mouth scrounging tribe? Why?

Because living hand-to-mouth freakin' BITES, buddha - and I surmise you've never actually tried doing it for real, otherwise you'd know how much of an ivory-tower dipshit you're sounding like right now.

No, that's what the free market is going to do - initially. Then, as people panic, they'll do the left-wing thing and try to force people to eat less and consume less energy. They'll have to kill people, eventually, in order to "stave off disaster" in the interest of the "greater good".

Both right and left will get their share of the credit for wiping out the majority of the human race.

You know, powered by that same enlightened interest that drives some to protest the killing of baby seals.

In the future, some of those protesters may be forced to eat seal meat - because it will be that or starve. I wonder what choice they will make - shoot their children to save the seals, or eat the seals to stay alive.

Assumption really is the mother of all fuckups, no?

Imagine there's no heaven,
It's easy if you try,
No hell below us,
Above us only sky,
Imagine all the people
living for today...

Imagine there's no countries,
It isnt hard to do,
Nothing to kill or die for,
No religion too,
Imagine all the people
living life in peace...

Imagine no possesions,
I wonder if you can,
No need for greed or hunger,
A brotherhood of man,
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say Im a dreamer,
but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.

Just imagine. It isn't possible, but imagine.

Yes, I think they were so wretchedly unhappy and miserable that they had an incredible impetus to cut down the woods, stop foraging and start sowing crops, and otherwise remove themselves from the bloody wilderness and start building human cities.

Otherwise, why would anyone have bothered to hang around civilizations? Why wouldn't cities have been abandoned for the noble life of the hand-to-mouth scrounging tribe? Why?

Actually, it's not as hard as you expect. In a hunter/gatherer civilization, the typical person works about 20 hours a week. Whereas in America, the work week is 40+. Also, in those hunger/gatherer groups, people don't kill themselves. If the stock market crashes, oh well. Nothing to die over. It was the lack of animal resources in certain areas (Europe, Asia) that expedited farming in some areas. It's in a book I have by an Anthropologist who Ph.D'd in this stuff.

And there is nothing wrong with farming. If made intelligently it doesn't do any wrong.

It's all relative. There is no perfect economic system. Whatever suits a group won't universally suit others. There are still hunter/gatherer groups in the world today. Dobbs thinks differently.

I think I'll start by responding to the original issue.
From what I know I can not see any reason for a person to oppose the seal hunt for any reason other then they think the seals are cute and should not be killed. The ecosystem in the Gulf of St. Lawrence, Grand Banks region(east cost Canada) is of balance an very out of wack because of human actions- populations of fish (perticualarly cod), and whales are drastically decreased from what they were before Europeans arrived in North America. Overfishing-due to unregulted industry and more efficient technology(not habitat loss and destruction) has meant many fish populations are below the levels they should be. Whale populations are also not as high as they should be. Seal populations are (to my knowledge) generally where they should be- meaning they are out of touch with the other creatures in the ecosystem. If left alone the seal population would increase(there not being enough orcas(killer whales) and polar bears(who I believe actually only eat them in spring) to kill the seals off-mainly because they don't reproduce as quickly. By letting the population soar it would even come down again because of desease and starvation-but not before ruinning several already struggling fishing industries and ruinning the economies of, and perhaps elliminating, several fishing communities. This -despite the fact there is a demand for the prducts-is why there is a seal hunt. Humans messed up an ecosystem giving seals an excellant chance to thrive-humans try not to continue messing up things too much by controlling the seal populaiton.
If you have a problem with how they are killed being cruel and not the deaths itself petition the regulator(Government) not the hunt. I remember hearing somewhere that they were experimenting using tazers to kill. Although I could be wrong because electricity and water don't mix well.

the other that's worth responding in this-energy and how humans are doomed. I believe the point of the site that was linked was to get people to realized that we need to change our habits now and not when industries tell us the oils gone. So the adjustment is more like running down a steep slope instead of jumping of a cliff.
First I'd like to point out that 6 Billion people would not be able to switch to hunter/gatherer lifestyle and survive-there is simply not enough to hunt/gather while maintaning its population so we can continue to hunt/ gather.
Energy change away from oil isn't just going to be about changing to solar, wind energy.biogas(capture methane from cow, pig,chicken, ect. crap-makes good fertilizer too), or even fusion energy(when the tech viably exists) It will be about changing our lifestyles so we are less dependent on petroleum products(oil, gas, plastic, asphalt!!!) and other non-renewable or toxic sources. I have no numbers, but by adding 'green energies' now, we will make our oil supply last longer-likely long enough to find better solutions(all green techs have become more efficient in the past years) The main problem is mobility- not much food is actually eaten very close to where its grown-presuming of course it hasnt been shipped between a number of processing plants in its processed life. Plus the fact nearly all North American farms use tractors. But this point isn't hopeless either, there was a groupof university students who drove a bus accross Canada last year. They had adapted it so that although it started with diesel, once going it ran on recycled vegetable oil-apparently the exhaust smelled like McDonalds'. There's also some people working on something called biodiesel- putting organic waste(chicken guts ect.) under intense pressure and heat to make diesel fuel. Although currently it uses more energy then it produces it exist as an option.
It will take lifestyle changes, and there will likely be less moving round then before-but we would survive (with computer technology we probably won't need to move around as much anyway)


Franctly I'm more concerned with humans realiance on metal then oil.

Very good post.

But if the seal population increased, it would also probably allow the polar bear, orca and other predator population to increase.
If they are in bigger number than they should be, it's probably because of humans, or else nature would take care of it. It happens all the time and pushes evolution.

Not necessarily evolution, but natural selection. Just look at the peppered moth situation in England.

Not necessarily evolution, but natural selection. Just look at the peppered moth situation in England.

Mmm.. peppered moth.

Would it be OK if they were rich baby seals?
Yes.
DOWN WITH THE BOURGEOISIE CAPITALIST PIGS...erm...SEALS!!!

Killing seals can be depicted by this
seal =:fluffle: :sniper:= evil man
its as bad as killing Tink

Not necessarily evolution, but natural selection. Just look at the peppered moth situation in England.

No, it allows for natural selection, thus pushing evolution. (If the weak are being killed it will make other generations be the ones that are fast or better at surviving and the next faster, etc.). And when the prey evolves, the predator also should.

Canada in crosshairs as seal hunt activists threaten seafood boycott

Thu Mar 24,10:05 AM ET

MONTREAL (AFP) - In a new offensive, animal rights activists are threatening a boycott of Canada's fish and seafood exports, over an annual cull targeting more than 300,000 seals which starts next week.

Photo
AFP/BELGA/File Photo


More Than Mail
How to master the popular information manager. Plus, great Outlook alternatives, and apps to expand the program.



The hunt is the "the largest and cruelest slaughter of marine mammals anywhere in the world," according to dozens of groups, including the International Fund for Animal Welfare and the Humane Society of the United States.

Hunters scouring ice flows in eastern provinces of Quebec and Newfoundland are this year expected to bring the total of seals allowed to be killed under government quotas to 975,000 since 2003.

The Canadian government says there is an abundance of healthy harp seals and this year's allowance of 319,517 carcasses will hardly dent the population.

Every year, groups launch gory media campaigns depicting Canadian hunters bludgeoning young seals to death on snowy white ice flows.

More than 15,000 out-of-work fisherman in eastern Canada took part last year, earning 16 million Canadian dollars (13 million US).

This year, the hunt will kick off on March 29 in the Magdalen Islands and continue in Newfoundland through to April 12.

Geoff Regan, Canada's Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, said animal rights groups' claims of cruelty are completely wrong.

"The clubbing of seals, when properly performed, is at least as humane as, and often more humane than, the killing methods used in commercial slaughterhouses, which are accepted by the majority of the public," he said.

Regan accused opponents of seal hunting of using "sensational images and breathless rhetoric."

"It is especially disturbing that some organizations are seeking to damage a legitimate Canadian activity and Canada's reputation abroad in public-relations campaigns in order to raise money for their organizations," he said.

But, activists are unapologetic.

Despite failing to bring an end to the hunt entirely, similar campaigns in the early 1980s succeeded in forcing the Canadian government to ban the killing of whitecoats, harp seal pups less than 12 days old.

Embargoes on the sale of whitecoat skins in the United States and Europe caused a collapse in seal prices and nearly brought the industry to its knees in 1995.

But demand for seal skins has since rebounded, seal populations soared to more than five million, more than three times as many as in the 1970s according to Regan, and the commercial hunt resumed stronger than ever.

Tiring of this everlasting battle, defenders of the seals are now targeting the part-time hunters' main source of income: the fishing industry.

Canada sold 4.5 billion Canadian dollars (3.7 billion US) worth of fish and seafood in 2004, more than 60 percent going to the United States and 10 percent shipped to the European Union (news - web sites), making it the fifth largest exporter in the world.

While Japan imports more fish and seafood products from Canada than Europe, support for a boycott there is weak, so the campaign will not focus on it.

"The actual Canadian Seafood Boycott will start on the day that the first seal is killed," the activists said earlier this month in a call to arms.

They hope it will take less than four years to convince the Canadian government to reject the commercial seal hunt, but could not be sure even if the public will support a boycott of Canadian seafood.

And seal furs, reaching an all-time high of 70 Canadian dollars (57 US) recently, are back in vogue on fashion runaways from Paris to Tokyo.


Link (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050324/sc_afp/canadaenvironmentseals_050324150528&e=4)

Thoughts?


Ah, damn... I thought they needed help getting in! :rolleyes:
You know, they really ought to upgrade their technique to using something like the "Kill Hammer" sheep farmers used in the 19th Century. swift, accurate, and fairly clean.
(then again, there's also the .22 blank-powered piston-gun...)
:sniper:

This probably makes me a horrible person, but I swear when I saw this thread I though it was a flash game. Something about clubbing baby seals for points. And honestly, I'm a little disappointed its not.

Damn I'm evil, I'm still playing the last sadistic flash game talked about on this board. The one where you smash into a guy with a bike to see how far he'll fly. 50,000m so far! ;)

No, it allows for natural selection, thus pushing evolution. (If the weak are being killed it will make other generations be the ones that are fast or better at surviving and the next faster, etc.). And when the prey evolves, the predator also should.

You have it all wrong, these animals ALWAYS have these genes in the gene pool. These different ones normally look like a flaw under normal situations. Natural Selection DOES NOT push evolution. All that shows is that the "freaks" are now better suited for reproduction, which allows a disproportionate amount of the "freak" group to stay alive. On the contrary, the "normal" ones die off more often than the others. Read up on the peppered moth situation in England. There are 2 types of the peppered moth: light, and dark. Normally, without human interuption, the light colored moths lived, because they could blend in with the trees, the birds couldn't spot them as easily, thus, natural camoflage. But, during the Industrial Revolution, England burned huge amounts of soft coal, wood, and dirty energy sources. The nearby trees became covered in soot, making them very dark. Now the dark ones were better protected from the evil birds. The moths NEVER mutated, changed, evolved, grew laser beams out of their eyes, only the ones with the dark genes survived MORE OFTEN. There were equal numbers of each color of moth born the whole time. And, to prove even more, when the English government imposed cleaner air standards, the trees were lightening up again, due to less soot being blown at them. Light colored moths appeared more frequently again, because the dark ones were getting eaten disproportionately again. Thusly, the light ones were better off again. If you still don't understand, or if you are still inclined on believing it's a direct result of evolution, go to a local library and check books out on the subject.

OH NO! NOT BABY SEALS! NOOOO!

But really, who gives a DAMN about "Poor baby seals?"

I dont see what the fuss is about, a few hard hits to the creatures head, and its dead instantly, its pretty humane really, compared to dying in a trap for hours in agony.

Canada in crosshairs as seal hunt activists threaten seafood boycott

Thu Mar 24,10:05 AM ET

MONTREAL (AFP) - In a new offensive, animal rights activists are threatening a boycott of Canada's fish and seafood exports, over an annual cull targeting more than 300,000 seals which starts next week.

Photo
AFP/BELGA/File Photo


More Than Mail
How to master the popular information manager. Plus, great Outlook alternatives, and apps to expand the program.



The hunt is the "the largest and cruelest slaughter of marine mammals anywhere in the world," according to dozens of groups, including the International Fund for Animal Welfare and the Humane Society of the United States.

Hunters scouring ice flows in eastern provinces of Quebec and Newfoundland are this year expected to bring the total of seals allowed to be killed under government quotas to 975,000 since 2003.

The Canadian government says there is an abundance of healthy harp seals and this year's allowance of 319,517 carcasses will hardly dent the population.

Every year, groups launch gory media campaigns depicting Canadian hunters bludgeoning young seals to death on snowy white ice flows.

More than 15,000 out-of-work fisherman in eastern Canada took part last year, earning 16 million Canadian dollars (13 million US).

This year, the hunt will kick off on March 29 in the Magdalen Islands and continue in Newfoundland through to April 12.

Geoff Regan, Canada's Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, said animal rights groups' claims of cruelty are completely wrong.

"The clubbing of seals, when properly performed, is at least as humane as, and often more humane than, the killing methods used in commercial slaughterhouses, which are accepted by the majority of the public," he said.

Regan accused opponents of seal hunting of using "sensational images and breathless rhetoric."

"It is especially disturbing that some organizations are seeking to damage a legitimate Canadian activity and Canada's reputation abroad in public-relations campaigns in order to raise money for their organizations," he said.

But, activists are unapologetic.

Despite failing to bring an end to the hunt entirely, similar campaigns in the early 1980s succeeded in forcing the Canadian government to ban the killing of whitecoats, harp seal pups less than 12 days old.

Embargoes on the sale of whitecoat skins in the United States and Europe caused a collapse in seal prices and nearly brought the industry to its knees in 1995.

But demand for seal skins has since rebounded, seal populations soared to more than five million, more than three times as many as in the 1970s according to Regan, and the commercial hunt resumed stronger than ever.

Tiring of this everlasting battle, defenders of the seals are now targeting the part-time hunters' main source of income: the fishing industry.

Canada sold 4.5 billion Canadian dollars (3.7 billion US) worth of fish and seafood in 2004, more than 60 percent going to the United States and 10 percent shipped to the European Union (news - web sites), making it the fifth largest exporter in the world.

While Japan imports more fish and seafood products from Canada than Europe, support for a boycott there is weak, so the campaign will not focus on it.

"The actual Canadian Seafood Boycott will start on the day that the first seal is killed," the activists said earlier this month in a call to arms.

They hope it will take less than four years to convince the Canadian government to reject the commercial seal hunt, but could not be sure even if the public will support a boycott of Canadian seafood.

And seal furs, reaching an all-time high of 70 Canadian dollars (57 US) recently, are back in vogue on fashion runaways from Paris to Tokyo.


Link (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050324/sc_afp/canadaenvironmentseals_050324150528&e=4)

Thoughts?
OOOh! Do they need help clubbing the seals? I'm there!

I dont see what the fuss is about, a few hard hits to the creatures head, and its dead instantly, its pretty humane really, compared to dying in a trap for hours in agony.
Or compared to being starved for up to 2 weeks, all in the name of "husbandly love."

Or compared to being starved for up to 2 weeks, all in the name of "husbandly love."

She should be clubbed too or something, much more humane.

She should be clubbed too or something, much more humane.
Apparently the husband clubbed or strangled her, leading to her condition. That would also explain why he wants her cremated immediately upon her death.

Apparently the husband clubbed or strangled her, leading to her condition. That would also explain why he wants her cremated immediately upon her death.

Actually she had a heart attack, causing lack of oxygen to her brain.
And if her husband even had done that it would be well known I think.
On this, its strange that America seems more caught up with whether she lives or dies, but the manner of her death, starvation doesnt seem to worry the authoritys at all, the future will judge you as barbaric for this. If someone has to die, then it should be as quick as possible, and yes Im a strong supporter of Euthanasia, its not murder.
Also I believe everyone and I mean everyone should be made to sign a form giving permission for loved ones to agree to their termination if they have remained in a vegetive state for more than a year.