NationStates Jolt Archive

Okay, I was raised in a Southern Baptist house. I was told by my parents that being gay is a sin and whatnot. I don't believe it, so I left the Southern Baptist Church and am going to join a local Lutheran church. They too believe that being gay is a sin I think, but they don't send their kids to reparitive therapy places so they can be straight again and don't tell gays they can't be baptized.

What does your denomination and individual church think about gays?

Okay, I was raised in a Southern Baptist house. I was told by my parents that being gay is a sin and whatnot. I don't believe it, so I left the Southern Baptist Church and am going to join a local Lutheran church. They too believe that being gay is a sin I think, but they don't send their kids to reparitive therapy places so they can be straight again and don't tell gays they can't be baptized.

What does your denomination and individual church think about gays?
My ex-denomination (I never believed but was forced to go anyway) said that, and I quote - 'Gay is OK'. It was sort of C of E with a liberal vicar.

What does your denomination and individual church think about gays?


Metropolitan Community Church (MCC) - We are all made and loved by God and redeemed by faith in Jesus. Blesses same sex unions and has openly gay ordained ministers

Uniting Church of Australia - accepts people of all sexual orientations, but still some controversy about gays and lesbians in ministry positions.

The Church of Illspiritism (founded by me, God) is the only official church. All other churches are false, and only serve to blind humanity from me, God. As God, and as gay, I love everyone. Especially men. Cute men.

So, basically my denomination is completely acceptant of homosexuality because God, me, is one.

I do not have a Church, as I am agnostic, however, I go t Cistercian school. They're views are:

Homosexuals are disgraces to humanity, and should have no rights.

There is some church that has a commercial saying they accept gays

There is some church that has a commercial saying they accept gays
Wow. That's a first.

I'm atheist now, but was raised Catholic. Catholics disapprove of homosexuality.

EDIT: Jesussaves disapproved of homosexuality as well.

Wow. That's a first.

Yup, the United Church of Christ - it produced a TV commercial advocating acceptance of everyone, including gays, which was banned from lots of networks for being too "controvertial".

See http://www.ucc.org/

Okay, I was raised in a Southern Baptist house. I was told by my parents that being gay is a sin and whatnot. I don't believe it, so I left the Southern Baptist Church and am going to join a local Lutheran church. They too believe that being gay is a sin I think, but they don't send their kids to reparitive therapy places so they can be straight again and don't tell gays they can't be baptized.

What does your denomination and individual church think about gays?

Better to belong to an independent church. That way, there's no central asshole to give you grief. Believe it or not, there are Pentacostal churches that don't care if anyone is gay.

You could also go to a Unitarian church, some Methodist churches, some Episcopal churches. There are others.

Yup, the United Church of Christ - it produced a TV commercial advocating acceptance of everyone, including gays, which was banned from lots of networks for being too "controvertial".

See http://www.ucc.org/
Finally, not some stuck up religious people.

Hell yeah. If I weren't pretty sure of my Atheism, I'd be tempted to join that church.

I do not belong to any denomination of any religion, I am a "generic" Christian.

My stance against Gay Marriage is from a purely legal perspective, I don't consider then a "minority."

Hell yeah. If I weren't pretty sure of my Atheism, I'd be tempted to join that church.

The Unitarian Universalist Church welcomes atheists. They could care less what you believe (well, as long as you aren't into human sacrifice).

The Unitarian Universalist Church welcomes atheists. They could care less what you believe (well, as long as you aren't into human sacrifice).
Wait. They want you to go to church, even though your an atheist?

Better to belong to an independent church. That way, there's no central asshole to give you grief. Believe it or not, there are Pentacostal churches that don't care if anyone is gay.

You could also go to a Unitarian church, some Methodist churches, some Episcopal churches.

Correct. My father is a Methodist minister and the Methodist church accepts everyone regardless of sexual orientation.

Wait. They want you to go to church, even though your an atheist?

They want you to come there so they can respect your beliefs. As long as you respect the beliefs of everyone else who is there, they accept you.

You don't have to have any personal beliefs at all. Just respect.

They want you to come there so they can respect your beliefs. As long as you respect the beliefs of everyone else who is there, they accept you.

You don't have to have any personal beliefs at all. Just respect.
Oh.

In Islam, for a gay Muslim, they are tested with an inner Jihad to reject homosexuality. No individual is born gay. They stray off because of poor guidance and education. Everyone has a test in their life, for gay people, it is to overcome their homosexual feelings.

I don't go to church, but I suppose being an ex-catholic, we'd be against...however, I don't think I heard priest or whatever ever denouncing gays or shit. then again, I never liked to pay attention in mass.

In Islam, for a gay Muslim, they are tested with an inner Jihad to reject homosexuality. No individual is born gay. They stray off because of poor guidance and education. Everyone has a test in their life, for gay people, it is to overcome their homosexual feelings.


and yet, there are growing numbers of gay Muslims who are speaking out against intolerance and discrimination, and forming organisations to raise awareness and celebrate their spirituality

and yet, there are growing numbers of gay Muslims who are speaking out against intolerance and discrimination, and forming organisations to raise awareness and celebrate their spirituality
I guess because homosexuality is frowned upon in Islam and they aren't willing to change. They aren't being submissive to Allah. Those who discriminate should get their act together and try to help gay brothers instead of being cruel.

I guess because homosexuality is frowned upon in Islam and they aren't willing to change. They aren't being submissive to Allah. Those who discriminate should get their act together and try to help gay brothers instead of being cruel.
Help them do what? Suppress their sexuality so they can live a miserable life?

Help them do what? Suppress their sexuality so they can live a miserable life?
Drunks are addicted to alchohol. They get addicted by excessive drinking because of a miserable life. If someone helps them suppress their addiction and get off the stuff, would they return to having miserable life or would they turn it around for the better?

I was raised a Catholic in a rather liberal environment. I know that "officially" the Catholic Church considers homosexuality to be a sin, but I never had that preached to me by our priest.

I've actually had several good discusions with the man about homosexuality and different religions. He condemned neither, rather stating that people find God in different ways (Catholic just happened to be his) and that homosexuality is just a simple deviation from the norm, nothing more.

Drunks are addicted to alchohol. They get addicted by excessive drinking because of a miserable life. If someone helps them suppress their addiction and get off the stuff, would they return to having miserable life or would they turn it around for the better?
Some drinkers honestly enjoy alcohol and use it responsibly, ie on their own time and never when driving. Making them quit drinking would only make them unhappy. Gays are harming nobody through their behavior, and it makes them happy. Why should it be anybody else's business?

Some drinkers honestly enjoy alcohol and use it responsibly, ie on their own time and never when driving. Making them quit drinking would only make them unhappy. Gays are harming nobody through their behavior, and it makes them happy. Why should it be anybody else's business?
Allah created men and women for eachother so it's Allah's business.

I guess because homosexuality is frowned upon in Islam and they aren't willing to change. They aren't being submissive to Allah. Those who discriminate should get their act together and try to help gay brothers instead of being cruel.

Looking back across history - the major religions have proscribed homosexuality - yet, where gay and lesbian people have had the courage to not put up with being shunned and have chosen to not give up their religion, they have formed communities in which they can continue to practice what they believe and celebrate their spirituality. The pronouncements of religious leaders (whether they be Popes, Archbishops, Imams, Rabbis) cannot disrupt someone's personal relationship with his/her God(s)

Allah created men and women for eachother so it's Allah's business.

I don't believe in Allah. Please provide an alternate answer from a non-religious point of view. Ta.

Looking back across history - the major religions have proscribed homosexuality - yet, where gay and lesbian people have had the courage to not put up with being shunned and have chosen to not give up their religion, they have formed communities in which they can continue to practice what they believe and celebrate their spirituality. The pronouncements of religious leaders (whether they be Popes, Archbishops, Imams, Rabbis) cannot disrupt someone's personal relationship with his/her God(s)
Which is alright with me.

Allah created men and women for eachother so it's Allah's business.
Only if you beleive allah exists.

I don't believe in Allah. Please provide an alternate answer from a non-religious point of view. Ta.

Given that this is a thread about what your religion thinks of homosexuality - don't you think your request is a bit off?

For those religions (Islam being one, various Christian denominations and others I'm probably not aware of) who follow a holy book which explicitly forbids homosexuality, homosexuality is obviously wrong, and it is hypocritical for members of those churches to try and change the church. If they don't like it, go United.
As for everyone else, be gay. As Trudeau once eloquently stated, the state has no place in the bedroom- therefore don't discriminate against gays. However, religion is by its very nature discriminatory, so don't expect it to be otherwise.

For those religions (Islam being one, various Christian denominations and others I'm probably not aware of) who follow a holy book which explicitly forbids homosexuality, homosexuality is obviously wrong, and it is hypocritical for members of those churches to try and change the church. If they don't like it, go United.


Literalism in relation to scripture has been addressed heaps of times in my time here - but a quick question:-
If all the Christian denominations are based on the same holy book - how can they have such divergent views on the acceptance of homosexuals in their congregations, and in some cases, as ordained ministers?

I don't believe in Allah. Please provide an alternate answer from a non-religious point of view. Ta.
Men are in no position to force homosexuals to do anything. Like I said, it's a personal battle for gays to sort this issue out for themselves. It's simply the matter of right and wrong. In Islam, homosexuality is wrong.

Only if you beleive allah exists.
That's why we're discussing gay Muslims.

That's why we're discussing gay Muslims.
That's why I'm not pressing the issue anymore.

Okay, I was raised in a Southern Baptist house. I was told by my parents that being gay is a sin and whatnot. I don't believe it, so I left the Southern Baptist Church and am going to join a local Lutheran church. They too believe that being gay is a sin I think, but they don't send their kids to reparitive therapy places so they can be straight again and don't tell gays they can't be baptized.

What does your denomination and individual church think about gays?
Being gay is a sin. Do you not read your Bible?

My denomination is United Church of Christ (The same church that put out the add accepting ALL people). It made me SO ANGRY that networks which profit from will and grace and queer eye for the straight guy have problems with a body of faith expressing love and acceptance for everyone, including gays. TOO CONTROVERSIAL???? AGH! We were saying not,
"We think pedophiles are just great," or anything like that.
We just happen to beleive that jesus would not care about age race, sex, or sexual orientation, religious affiliation, nationality, or anything else. The whole wonderful, redeeming, amazing thing about Jesus is that he gives unconditional love, and all you have to do accept it. You don't have to stop sinning, you don't have to DESERVE eternal grace and forgiveness. You just get it anyway because he loves people no matter what!


And on a legal note: If our country denies to the minority something which they grant to the majority (right to marry) than we are in serious ideological trouble.

Being gay is a sin. Do you not read your Bible?

If all the Christian denominations are based on the same holy book - how can they have such divergent views on the acceptance of homosexuals in their congregations, and in some cases, as ordained ministers?

If all the Christian denominations are based on the same holy book - how can they have such divergent views on the acceptance of homosexuals in their congregations, and in some cases, as ordained ministers?

Because different churches interperet the book differently. It's similar to when Bush says "we're spreading democracy" even though there was only one statement, some people hear "oil grab" and others here "God Bless those altruistic Americans". It's up to individuals to decide which interpretation they agree with.

I attend a southern baptist church. We believe that sex outside of marriage is sinful regardless of whether it is gay sex or straight sex. We do not believe in gay marriage, so gays are pretty much expected to remain celibate unless they can settle for marrying a partner of the opposite sex.

Because different churches interperet the book differently. It's similar to when Bush says "we're spreading democracy" even though there was only one statement, some people hear "oil grab" and others here "God Bless those altruistic Americans". It's up to individuals to decide which interpretation they agree with.
Look, I don't know how you can interpret this differently...
Romans 1:27
"Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, mem with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due."
This is talking about the wrath of God that was delivered to homosexuals in places such as Sodom and Gomora.


Looks pretty clear to me.

Allah created men and women for eachother so it's Allah's business.

Then why are you dealing with Allah's business?

Catholic. They don't like them.

I don't really practice anymore. Got rather disgusted by the pedophillia scandle.

The reason so many Christian Churches have heretical views on homosexuality is because, obviously, only one of them is correct. That Church being, of coarse, the one founded by Christ: The Roman Catholic Church.

I am a devout Catholic, and am hoping to join the Cistercian seminary in Dallas in a few years. Our teaching on homosexuality has been the same for thousands of years, and seeing as the truth never changes, still is: God made man and woman for each other, and instituted a sacred method in which they may bring other humans into the world. That method should not be abused for sinful pleasure under any circumstance.

I agree with the Muslim, and with each passing day see still more similarities between Islam and Christianity. :)

To the atheists: I too was once an atheist, and found God through philosophy. May I suggest Descartes' Discours to you?
Also, Hans Kung is a good current philosopher/theologian to read.

How does the fact that a few priests did some horrible things change God's truth?

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

2357
Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity (Cf. Genesis 19:1-29; Romans 1:24-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9; 1 Timothy 1:10), tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered" (Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Persona humana 8). They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358
The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359
Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

How does the fact that a few priests did some horrible things change God's truth?

If the "true" Church had a program to hide their actions, then how can they be trusted?

The reason so many Christian Churches have heretical views on homosexuality is because, obviously, only one of them is correct. That Church being, of coarse, the one founded by Christ: The Roman Catholic Church.

Who said Jesus founded the Roman Catholic Church? I remember something about most of them not believing in the resurrection, but I could be wrong.

How does the fact that a few priests did some horrible things change God's truth?
Very true, a certain man's actions cannot judge his tribe.

However, I wouldn't say God's TRUth...That is skeptical

Look, I don't know how you can interpret this differently...
Romans 1:27
"Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, mem with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due."
This is talking about the wrath of God that was delivered to homosexuals in places such as Sodom and Gomora.


Looks pretty clear to me.

It seems clear to me too. I think homosexuality from a Christian perspective, is wrong. However, I've found that others have different viewpoints, and although I think they're wrong, I have no problem with them all running off and joining the United Church. It has nothing to do with me. I belong to a religion that forbids homosexuality.
That said, people in such religions who expect the church to conform to their views should go join a different church.

What program? I do not deny that Bishops covered some of these things up, yet the "program" was their personnal sin, not a doctrinal error.

Who said Jesus founded the Roman Catholic Church? I remember something about most of them not believing in the resurrection, but I could be wrong.
Well, I have it on good authority that they are a bunch of pagan Mary and the Saints worshipping polytheists, but in my catechism classes when I was a catholic boy they told me jesus did get resurected.

What program? I do not deny that Bishops covered some of these things up, yet the "program" was their personnal sin, not a doctrinal error.

The program of moving these animals around. In fact they would send them to other countries.

An Irish Priest kidnapped a kid, tortured him, and sexually assulted him.

Once he was discovered, he was sent to Canada.

It seems clear to me too. I think homosexuality from a Christian perspective, is wrong. However, I've found that others have different viewpoints, and although I think they're wrong, I have no problem with them all running off and joining the United Church. It has nothing to do with me. I belong to a religion that forbids homosexuality.
That said, people in such religions who expect the church to conform to their views should go join a different church.
You don't have a problem with people joining some religion that believes in who knows what? I specifically remember a verse that tells Christians to go into every nation and teach the people about Jesus and what He did. Just letting people fall to some other religion is by far what that means.


By the way...I'm a Southern Baptist, and we don't hate homosexuals, we just hate what they do, because it is sin.

They preached the resurrection.

"You are the rock upon which I shall build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against you."
--Christ naming Peter the first Pope

Well, I have it on good authority that they are a bunch of pagan Mary and the Saints worshipping polytheists, but in my catechism classes when I was a catholic boy they told me jesus did get resurected.
Accoridng to religion class, they ask those people to give their word to God, and they only admire them. They do not worship them.

I am an Atheist and a Communist and I see nothing wrong with homosexuality which is a completely natural aspect of humanity and I am disgusted by the fascists and religious extremists who want to treat people differently because of their sexuality.

Accoridng to religion class, they ask those people to give their word to God, and they only admire them. They do not worship them.
I was kidding. It was a takeoff on Jesussaves' old posts.

By the way...I'm a Southern Baptist, and we don't hate homosexuals, we just hate what they do, because it is sin.
Then, couldn't I just say that hertosexualism is a sin?

Well, I have it on good authority that they are a bunch of pagan Mary and the Saints worshipping polytheists, but in my catechism classes when I was a catholic boy they told me jesus did get resurected.
ok, i gotcha

like i said, i wasn't sure

I was kidding. It was a takeoff on Jesussaves' old posts.
Oh, sorry. I take these debates seriously.

WoW!! Someone else from Dallas!!
You go to Cistercian, don't you?
I'm Nathan Helms!

Then, couldn't I just say that hertosexualism is a sin?
You could, but it's not backed up by scripture: at least not the Bible anyways.

WoW!! Someone else from Dallas!!
You go to Cistercian, don't you?
I'm Nathan Helms!
Oh, it's you Nathan. John-Henry is in my class.

You could, but it's not backed up by scripture: at least not the Bible anyways.
Back yours up with a scripture.

Mt family attended an Assembly of God church. They are pretty much down on homosexuality also dancing, movies and don't even think about touching that can of beer, Jesus drank grape juice boy!!
I stopped going when I was sixteen, my parents stopped when I turned 18. I still have my faith but believe that the idea of denominations and church buildings, ministers, priests, deacons and bishops served only to detach us from God.
Our faith should be a personal thing, it should be nurished by our own study and by small groups meeting held in houses and led by no one. Just friends getting together to talk about the religion and give support and encouragement to one another.

Homosexuality is a sin. However, I also being a sinner in different ways have no right to reject, condemn or hate homosexuals. I will treat them just like I treat everyone else. It is for God to decide about their life once they go before him, just as he will decide about mine.

That is just crazy.

That is just crazy.
What is?

Back yours up with a scripture.
Romans 1:27
I mentioned it earlier.

Homosexuality is a sin. However, I also being a sinner in different ways have no right to reject, condemn or hate homosexuals. I will treat them just like I treat everyone else. It is for God to decide about their life once they go before him, just as he will decide about mine.

How can homosexuality be a sin?

You, and me are born as hetrosexuals.

They are born has homosexuals. They cannot choose. Your saying that they are plagued by sin for their whole life, because of something they cannot change?

How can homosexuality be a sin?

You, and me are born as hetrosexuals.

They are born has homosexuals. They cannot choose. Your saying that they are plagued by sin for their whole life, because of something they cannot change?
Don't even get started on the no choice thing. A guy posted the other day with scientific evidence saying that they can choose. It may be an upbringing thing sometimes, but no one is born homosexual.

Look, I don't know how you can interpret this differently...
Romans 1:27
"Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, mem with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due."
This is talking about the wrath of God that was delivered to homosexuals in places such as Sodom and Gomora.


Looks pretty clear to me.

No. God never said that what they did was sin. he said they are shameful.

Don't even get started on the no choice thing. A guy posted the other day with scientific evidence saying that they can choose. It may be an upbringing thing sometimes, but no one is born homosexual.
So no one is born hetrosexual?

Don't even get started on the no choice thing. A guy posted the other day with scientific evidence saying that they can choose.
No, he posted with a claim that it was non-biological. Nowhere in it did it prove that homosexuals choose, and I am very suspicious of the truth of the entire article, as it doesn't seem to have gotten into any peer-reviewed journals, and if it were really proved it would be a fairly big discovery.

No, he posted with a claim that it was non-biological. Nowhere in it did it prove that homosexuals choose, and I am very suspicious of the truth of the entire article, as it doesn't seem to have gotten into any peer-reviewed journals, and if it were really proved it would be a fairly big discovery.
I doubt it is true as well.

So no one is born hetrosexual?
Yes, everyone is born heterosexual. We are all created in God's image, but due to the fact that we live in an imperfect world with sin, we can't go on continuing to live in His image without redemption from Jesus.

The verse clearly states, "receiving in themselves the penalty of the error which was due".

Yes, everyone is born heterosexual. We are all created in God's image, but due to the fact that we live in an imperfect world with sin, we can't go on continuing to live in His image without redemption from Jesus.

The verse clearly states, "receiving in themselves the penalty of the error which was due".
A penalty. God's penalty to Eve was pain in birth. No sin when yo gave birth

I was baptised a Catholic, and we all know what they think about gays.

I personally don't have anything against them as I gave a big "fuck you" to the church and religion a long time ago.

A penalty. God's penalty to Eve was pain in birth. No sin when yo gave birth
Eve's pain was a penalty FROM HER SIN. When she and Adam disobeyed God in the Garden of Eden, that was a sin. The ground was cursed against Adam, and Eve was inflicted with birthing pain.

Eve's pain was a penalty FROM HER SIN. When she and Adam disobeyed God in the Garden of Eden, that was a sin. The ground was cursed against Adam, and Eve was inflicted with birthing pain.
The sin was the fruit. The punishment was birth.

I was baptised a Catholic, and we all know what they think about gays.

I personally don't have anything against them as I gave a big "fuck you" to the church and religion a long time ago.
Thank God. Some intelligent people.

How can homosexuality be a sin?

You, and me are born as hetrosexuals.

They are born has homosexuals. They cannot choose. Your saying that they are plagued by sin for their whole life, because of something they cannot change?

It is a sin because it is declared one by the apostles in the New Testament. Being born that way or not is not relevant. It is not for us to decide what is a sin or what is not a sin, it is for God to decide and the only way we can know what is a sin is to rely on what was written.
Why are people so offended by the idea it is a sin? Because you feel stigma is attached? I clearly said that the idea it is a sin will not change my behavior toward a homosexual one bit.

Then if it is a choice, I choose being a happy fag over being an unhappy, repressed X-tian.

It is a sin because it is declared one by the apostles in the New Testament. Being born that way or not is not relevant. It is not for us to decide what is a sin or what is not a sin, it is for God to decide and the only way we can know what is a sin is to rely on what was written.
Why are people so offended by the idea it is a sin? Because you feel stigma is attached? I clearly said that the idea it is a sin will not change my behavior toward a homosexual one bit.
Fuc* apostles. They were just weak, pathetic humans.

Then if it is a choice, I choose being a happy fag over being an unhappy, repressed X-tian.
Can you say that in English please?

The sin was the fruit. The punishment was birth.
scripture?

No need to flame.

Can you say that in English please?
In English, it says:
"If homosexuality truly is a matter of personal preference and not of biological nature, I believe I would choose to continue to engage in homosexual relationships and be content as a result of that rather than become a repressed Christian."

Then if it is a choice, I choose being a happy fag over being an unhappy, repressed X-tian.
Most people who are Christians live happy lives. Eternal life should be your joy if you are a Christian. I'm not repressed...I'm straight.

Being gay is a sin. Do you not read your Bible?


And genocide is condoned!!

Can you say that in English please?

X-tian, a fairly derogatory way of saying "Christian", similarly to "Xmas."

And genocide is condoned!!
How is genocide condoned? No one said anything about killing anyone or treating homosexuals badly.

Most people who are Christians live happy lives. Eternal life should be your joy if you are a Christian. I'm not repressed...I'm straight.

By your various oppressive comments, I'd say your upbringing has been highly repressive.

Most people who are Christians live happy lives. Eternal life should be your joy if you are a Christian. I'm not repressed...I'm straight.
You have missed his/her point.
S/he is gay or lesbian, and would rather continue to do so than attempt to repress his/her true self and act as though s/he were a Christian.

scripture?
Romans 1:25

By your various oppressive comments, I'd say your upbringing has been highly repressive.
not so much

I wasn't told to be straight or I'd die, but I was simply told what the Bible says, and I believe it to be the utmost truth. I've never had homosexual feelings, and I don't disown anyone who does. Are they living in a righteous way? No. Are they unforgiveable? No.

You have missed his/her point.
S/he is gay or lesbian, and would rather continue to do so than attempt to repress his/her true self and act as though s/he were a Christian.

Many thanks for expressing in Generalite terminology.

i'm gone to class now, commence the gossip about me

How is genocide condoned? No one said anything about killing anyone or treating homosexuals badly.

God did both of those things.

i'm gone to class now, commence the gossip about me
Why would we? We respect your views and opinions. What yiu believe in is not our role to judge.

not so much

I wasn't told to be straight or I'd die, but I was simply told what the Bible says, and I believe it to be the utmost truth. I've never had homosexual feelings, and I don't disown anyone who does. Are they living in a righteous way? No. Are they unforgiveable? No.

...You fit my definition of repressed. I fit your definition of unrighteous. Neither are going to convince the other of their point of view. I see myself as right, you see your bible as right. One can be proven/disproven through science. One cannot. Only time will tell if homosexuality is a choice, or not. If it is proven to not be a choice, then it is by it's very definition as part of your god's creation perfect.

Thanks for the translaton, I've never seen X-tian being used as an abbreviation for Christian, but I s'pose it does make sense when I think about it...

Anyway, what is the Catholic church's position on homosexuality? I was under the impression that informed conscience gave you a get-out clause from almost everything, as long as you could square it between yourself and God.

And the current pope, God bless him, is 84 years old, in the terminal stages of Alzheimers, and in no fit state to be conveying messages from God.

Thanks for the translaton, I've never seen X-tian being used as an abbreviation for Christian, but I s'pose it does make sense when I think about it...

Anyway, what is the Catholic church's position on homosexuality? I was under the impression that informed conscience gave you a get-out clause from almost everything, as long as you could square it between yourself and God.

And the current pope, God bless him, is 84 years old, in the terminal stages of Alzheimers, and in no fit state to be conveying messages from God.
The Catholic Church resents homosexualism.

Who cares about the Pope?

You said...

Being gay is a sin. Do you not read your Bible?

Hence reading the bible...you will find genocide condoned.

Your response.....

How is genocide condoned? No one said anything about killing anyone or treating homosexuals badly.

Have you not read your bible?? I suggest you read the book of Joshua......

Morality isn't to be found in the bible.....

Fuc* apostles. They were just weak, pathetic humans.

Well, that certainly changed my mind.

I am from a Catholic background, and attended a fairly liberal Catholic school. Most Catholics I know tolerate homosexuals. The church itself does not.

They want you to come there so they can respect your beliefs. As long as you respect the beliefs of everyone else who is there, they accept you.

You don't have to have any personal beliefs at all. Just respect.
They want you to go there so you can pay up. Protestant churches are like little businesses. A man sets himself up as a pastor by paying his 50 bucks, then he gets all your tithings. Plus his pick of the more comely members of the congregation.

Well, that certainly changed my mind.
sarcasm?

They want you to go there so you can pay up. Protestant churches are like little businesses. A man sets himself up as a pastor by paying his 50 bucks, then he gets all your tithings. Plus his pick of the more comely members of the congregation.
That's every church.

im part of a conservative synagogue synagogue, but i would be reform if there was one close enough to me. im pretty sure we're gay tolerant, but no one ever talks about it.

sarcasm?

Yeah. I don't like to use the rolling eyes thingy.

Yeah. I don't like to use the rolling eyes thingy.
How about TEXT?

How about TEXT?

Or, you could just be British.

Or, you could just be British.
lol, or that :D

They want you to go there so you can pay up. Protestant churches are like little businesses. A man sets himself up as a pastor by paying his 50 bucks, then he gets all your tithings. Plus his pick of the more comely members of the congregation.
Now that's a nice scam. Plus it's tax free!

I go to a assembly of God chucrch and they say that being gay is a sin and then they tell you if you don't change you'll go to Hell.

How about TEXT?

For example: [sarcasm] Yeah, I love his dress. [sarcasm]

that's too time consuming to write.

I go to a assembly of God chucrch and they say that being gay is a sin and then they tell you if you don't change you'll go to Hell.
How misinformed you are.

When I was in the junior high youth group one day they devided the girls and the boys and marched the girls to another room. What the told the girls remains a mystery to me but what they told us was just rich.

The speech made by the pastor was this: If you masturbate you will move on to *shudder* kissing girls! If you kiss girls you will move on to HEAVY PETTING!!! Heavy petting will lead to real sex!!!! NOOOOO!!! Then, this will not be enough and soon you will be trying to pick up men at the local gay bar and engaging in wild orgies of sodomy!!!

I remember thinking that since everybody pretty much masturbates why wasn't the vast majority of the world homosexual? It was speeches like this that convinced me to stop going to services and to sneak by to my folks car and read a book.

When I was in the junior high youth group one day they devided the girls and the boys and marched the girls to another room. What the told the girls remains a mystery to me but what they told us was just rich.

The speech made by the pastor was this: If you masturbate you will move on to *shudder* kissing girls! If you kiss girls you will move on to HEAVY PETTING!!! Heavy petting will lead to real sex!!!! NOOOOO!!! Then, this will not be enough and soon you will be trying to pick up men at the local gay bar and engaging in wild orgies of sodomy!!!

I remember thinking that since everybody pretty much masturbates why wasn't the vast majority of the world homosexual? It was speeches like this that convinced me to stop going to services and to sneak by to my folks car and read a book.
That's wrong. Your pastor mst have been coocoo

Bet he masturbated too.

That's wrong. Your pastor mst have been coocoo

Yeah (no sarcasm) that is pretty much the conclusion I came to at the time. I was 13 and I thought more clearly than him. Blew me away the number of guys who walked out of there thinking that they would be gay in a few years.

Well, I'm a Greek Orthodox Christian (All Orthodox churches have Autonomy, but the only real difference is what language they speak in Church). Anyway, the Orthodox and Catholic churches used to be one, the Katholikin kai Apostolikin Ekklesia which, when translated from Ancient Greek mean the "Catholic and Apostolic Church". (On a side note, Catholik [Katholikin] is Ancient Greek for "All-encompassing"). Anyway, they used to be together, but the Eastern churches didn't believe that a man could/should have complete control over the entire church, but rather, that should be God's role, and they as men were to work together to try and understand what God means. That's why when decisions need to be reached, the churches hold synods, councils, etc., just like Congress can conviene when needed. It's a very democratic Church, and for our refusal to recognise the pope, both churches exiled eachother. In addition to this, the modern differences between Orthodoxy and Catholocism are much more apparent than the differences of 1000 years ago. The Orthodox churches have changed very, very little in their 2000 years, the priests dress the same and follow the same rules, the Churches look the same, and the topics preached in the Churches are still the same, whereas the Catholic church has changed drastically, and the two religions now seem very different.

For those that want to learn more about Orthodoxy, as I know many haven't heard of it (even though there are over 200 million Orthodox Christians), this is a very interesting read, for Christians and non-Christians alike: http://www2.cytanet.com.cy/gogreek/miracle.htm Or just google "Orthodox + Holy Flame" or "Orthodox + Holy Fire". Whether you believe or not, it is still very intriguing.

Anyway, about the homosexuality thing, here's some quotes from www.goarch.org:

The moral teaching of the Church on this matter has been unchanging since its foundation. In sum, the sanctity of marriage is the cornerstone of sexual morality. The whole range of sexual activity outside marriage - fornication, adultery and homosexuality - are thus seen as not fitting and appropriate to the Christian way of life.... (http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7101.asp)

Generally stated, fornication, adultery, abortion, homosexuality and any form of abusive sexual behavior are considered immoral and inappropriate forms of behavior in and of themselves, and also because they attack the institution of marriage and the family. Two representative statements, one on abortion and another on homosexuality, from the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of North and South America follow. [Discussion on Abortion removed, see the link below if you want to read more]The position of the Orthodox Church toward homosexuality has been expressed by synodicals, canons and patristic pronouncements beginning with the very first centuries of Orthodox ecclesiastical life. Thus, the Orthodox Church condemns unreservedly all expressions of personal sexual experience which prove contrary to the definite and unalterable function ascribed to sex by God's ordinance and expressed in man's experience as a law of nature. The Orthodox Church believes that homosexuality should be treated by religion as a sinful failure. In both cases, correction is called for. Homosexuals should be accorded the confidential medical and psychiatric facilities by which they can be helped to restore themselves to a self-respecting sexual identity that belongs to them by God's ordinance. In full confidentiality the Orthodox Church cares and provides pastorally for homosexuals in the belief that no sinner who has failed himself and God should be allowed to deteriorate morally and spiritually. Psychiatric reconciliation is bound to prove short-lived. (http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7101.asp)

For those that are all gung-ho about the Seperation of Church and State, and think that Governments based on religion cannot work, the Byzantine Empire was basically run by the Orthodox Church, and it lasted for, oh, 1200- years. The unification of Church and State can work, but not in the US. The US Constituion clearly allows the freedom of any and all religions, so doing this in the US is a tad hypocritical. If they wanted a Christian nation, they'd need a vast majority, and I mean vast majority of Christaians in the country, and those that weren't would have to accept the government as is. The Church is still very powerful in Greece, but then again 98% of Greeks in Greece are baptized in the Greek Orthodox Church, about 1% are other types of Christians, and the last percent, everything else.

For those that are all gung-ho about the Seperation of Church and State, and think that Governments based on religion cannot work...

The separation of Church and State, in the US, was due to Henry VIII. He was denied a divorce by the Pope so he broke with the Church of Rome and became the head of the Anglican Church. He persecuted Protestants and Catholics("The Reformation", by Will Durant).

I know, I was just saying how it seems like the US is trying to become a religious state again, with a lot of the things going on currently. While, the religious aspects of the Bush administration is THE ONLY THING I like about them, I still don't think it can work very well in the US. Nor do I think he's doing it for his own spiritual reasons, rather for his own benefit in polls and such.

Wow. I leave, come back, and then my topic has 9 pages! Woohoo!

Anyways, interesting replies so far! Anyone know the Presbyterian views on the subject? Notice the churches also never talk about bisexuals. Hmmm. That's odd.

Wow. I leave, come back, and then my topic has 9 pages! Woohoo!

Anyways, interesting replies so far! Anyone know the Presbyterian views on the subject? Notice the churches also never talk about bisexuals. Hmmm. That's odd.

Bisexuals are assumed to be either gay or straight at first glance, and treated accordingly.

I was raised Presbyterian. I believe homosexuals are slightly tolerated, but believed to go to hell. Keep in mind that I haven't been to church in at least 10 years, and I have never once heard this topic mentioned, for all I paid attention. I think the church is slightly liberal on that standpoint though.

Again, I don't know for certain. Don't quote me on it.

Good topic.

I go to a Revival Lutheran Church. It's more Pentacostal or charismatic with some slight Lutheran teachings.

Concerning gays, we think it's a sin and it's a psychological sickness.

But we don't harbour on sins. Nor do we condemn sinners. For there is no more condemnation in Christ. Once you accept Jesus as your Lord and saviour, he washes you of all your sins, and you may enter into heaven.

It's a sin. Firstly hands down. But We don't believe there is such thing as a measurement of sin. Whether you tell a lie about your wife is the best in bed, you cheat the vendor for 10 cents, you stole your neighbours wife, you have sex have homosexual sex with another partner. It's all the same. Sin is sin. There is no 'worser sin'. And God's measure is perfection. It's either

1) Your a sinner
2) Your perfect like Jesus(which you are definitely not)

Hence you need Jesus.

We believe it's a psychological sickness. In that it needs to be treated.. Not condemned. We treat gay people like their having a problem quitting drugs, or quitting cigarretes. We tell them it's not right. But we don't condemn them.

We bring them into the church and tell them about the goodness and grace of our Lord Jesus. And what he has done for you, and what he has instore.

If you want to change to live a normal better life that God has plan for you, we'll pray for you and help you whatever way we can. But if you still want to live in your sin, it's up to you. Most important is that your still saved and that your going to heaven.

But you wouldn't live your life to the fullest, and enjoy what God has in plan.

My denomination doesn't say anything specific about gays. Then again my religion doesn't say anything specific about a lot of things. I still haven't gotten around to writing that holy book I was planning on.