NationStates Jolt Archive

Do you think a baby's mind is:

None of the above.

An infant reacts to stimulus, same as anyone.

70% Nature, 30% nurture in those who are not driven
98% drive, 1% nature, 1% nurture in those who are driven.

Of course the true question for me is where drive comes from. Nature, or Nurture? I'm not sure on that one.

I think that a lot more of our personality is based on hardwired than most of us would like to admit. Upbringing and enviroment can mitigate or encourage certain traits, but I think we're all born with the basics already there.

Loads of tendencies are built into us. I think alot of the variation you see between different humans stems from the environment though.

We just don't really know though.

Until we evolve into uber-humans or gods, we will never know what exactly is on the mind of a newborn, thus I voted "dunno"

I'm not voting for any of those options. You put a baby's mind. Fact is that babies most likely don't act due to their gender. Most children from 0-2 behave in similar ways, that are not differentiated by their gender but more by their individual motor skills, etc. Look at a baby carefully. They react to stimulation; touch, color(though it's argued), seeing, repetition, etc. Children do not start behaving in distinct ways of their gender until they're about 2. From about 0-2, babies have similar mindsets,that are comprised of learning about their worlds through stimulation.

If you want to read a rather interesting and sad book that makes a statement about nature vs nurture, read "As Nature Made Him : The Boy Who Was Raised as a Girl"


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060929596/qid=1111559237/sr=2-1/102-6762865-0544946?v=glance&s=books

I'm not voting for any of those options. You put a baby's mind. Fact is that babies most likely don't act due to their gender. Most children from 0-2 behave in similar ways, that are not differentiated by their gender but more by their individual motor skills, etc. Look at a baby carefully. They react to stimulation; touch, color(though it's argued), seeing, repetition, etc. Children do not start behaving in distinct ways of their gender until they're about 2. From about 0-2, babies have similar mindsets,that are comprised of learning about their worlds through stimulation. I wasn't meaning this to be about infancy in particular, but whether a person ends up being masculine/feminine because it's build into thier biology from birth or encouraged and taught.

I think almost everything is 50:50 nature and nurture (apart from things like eye colour and stuff), you can never say that something is just down to nature, or just down to nurture, even things that are genetic can be triggered by environmental factors.

Why do they have to be at odds? What's wrong with nature via nurture? Or vice versa?

If you want to read a rather interesting and sad book that makes a statement about nature vs nurture, read "As Nature Made Him : The Boy Who Was Raised as a Girl"


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060929596/qid=1111559237/sr=2-1/102-6762865-0544946?v=glance&s=books
just to give people a reason to click the link and think about it...

after a botched circumsicion the decision is made to raise the mutilated boy as a girl. his parents are instructed to raise him by strict gender stereotypes

the doctor who advised this made quite a name for himself. he put out books and papers touting how successful it had been and how the "girl" had completely adjusted to her new gender

the truth was that she was never comfortable as a girl and when she found out the truth she changed back to being a "boy" as best she could. he lived a sad life and ended up killing himself last year. (or the year before)

you cant think that gender is all a social construct after reading what this man went through. nothing about being a girl appealed to him. he rejected it from the time he was a toddler no matter how hard his parents tried to force it on him.

nature is more important in some things

If you want to read a rather interesting and sad book that makes a statement about nature vs nurture, read "As Nature Made Him : The Boy Who Was Raised as a Girl"


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060929596/qid=1111559237/sr=2-1/102-6762865-0544946?v=glance&s=books
Another good book might be Matt Ridley's Nature Via Nurture: Genes, Experience, and What Makes Us Human (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060006781/qid=1111597205/sr=8-2/ref=pd_csp_2/104-1693859-4248731?v=glance&s=books&n=507846).

i would love to know the answer, but i dont have it


well, the one thing i can say is that my parents always tried to bring me up as a stereotypical boy, playing sports, getting messy, playing with cars and trucks, getting in fights, climbing trees etc

but despite all that, i feel that i am a girl. so nurture cant be all of it...

Another good book might be Matt Ridley's Nature Via Nurture: Genes, Experience, and What Makes Us Human (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060006781/qid=1111597205/sr=8-2/ref=pd_csp_2/104-1693859-4248731?v=glance&s=books&n=507846).
I haven't read that one, but I've read some of Ridley's other books, and he's a rather good writer, so I'd bet that that book is fairly interesting.

If you want to read a rather interesting and sad book that makes a statement about nature vs nurture, read "As Nature Made Him : The Boy Who Was Raised as a Girl"


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060929596/qid=1111559237/sr=2-1/102-6762865-0544946?v=glance&s=books

Another book with a similar theme, although fictional, is Middlesex.
Middlesex on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0312422156/qid=1111601185/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-0022160-9290343)

Another good book might be Matt Ridley's Nature Via Nurture: Genes, Experience, and What Makes Us Human (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060006781/qid=1111597205/sr=8-2/ref=pd_csp_2/104-1693859-4248731?v=glance&s=books&n=507846).

Thank you! Just ordered it! :)

Thank you! I guess that would make it more interesting to check the link!

just to give people a reason to click the link and think about it...

after a botched circumsicion the decision is made to raise the mutilated boy as a girl. his parents are instructed to raise him by strict gender stereotypes

the doctor who advised this made quite a name for himself. he put out books and papers touting how successful it had been and how the "girl" had completely adjusted to her new gender

the truth was that she was never comfortable as a girl and when she found out the truth she changed back to being a "boy" as best she could. he lived a sad life and ended up killing himself last year. (or the year before)

you cant think that gender is all a social construct after reading what this man went through. nothing about being a girl appealed to him. he rejected it from the time he was a toddler no matter how hard his parents tried to force it on him.

nature is more important in some things

Another book with a similar theme, although fictional, is Middlesex.
Middlesex on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0312422156/qid=1111601185/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-0022160-9290343)

Hmmm I just might add that to my never ending list! Thanks! :)

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