NationStates Jolt Archive

This (http://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?threadid=9420) is very interesting. I thought I would share it with you folks, if you haven't seen it like this already.

Already knew that, but thanks.

Good to know that the credit and debt-management industries are doing well. Its nice also to see that people have not yet learned to live within their means.

what, exactly, are you trying to show here?

it's certainly nice to see that we're improving, but you're not taking the information and trying to prove a point with it, you're just displaying the information

Yes, I'm just displaying information. I didn't try to make a point.

Oh, I'm sorry, this is NationStates. I suppose I'm supposed to make some sort of rude, inflammatory remark that has nothing to do with reality or honesty so that people can come here and make their own rude and inflammtory remarks, right?

I should be shouting my opinion as loud as I can so that everyone can agree?

Pffbbtt. You didn't even study the charts.

Oh, I'm sorry, this is NationStates. I suppose I'm supposed to make some sort of rude, inflammatory remark that has nothing to do with reality or honesty so that people can come here and make their own rude and inflammtory remarks, right?

I should be shouting my opinion as loud as I can so that everyone can agree?
Uhh yeah....

If you've been here long enough to realize this, you should know better by now. :p

The trade deficit is bad. The Credit Dept (red on chart 2) is also bad.

However, the home mortgage parts are *good* -- more people are buying and owning their own homes.

The money supply could be good or bad... depends on how you want to look at it.

The trade deficit is bad. The Credit Dept (red on chart 2) is also bad.

However, the home mortgage parts are *good* -- more people are buying and owning their own homes.

The money supply could be good or bad... depends on how you want to look at it.

Much as I would like to say that home ownership is entirely a good thing, it also represents the latest "fad" in spending by consumers already burdened by considerable debt.

Remember the chart represents the amount of money people are borrowing to buy houses; not exactly the same thing as first-time home owners striking out into the market, no? If the housing bubble that many fear bursts we could see a significant loss for many investors.

The reason why the US has been on such a spending spree is because its economy is too strong. It can't be blamed for succeeding, but other nations can be blamed for not growing. There has been a savings glut in the rest of the world, and in Western Europe and Japan, growth remains sluggish. The areas that are growing, such as China and Eastern Europe, are growing because of production increases, and not because of consumer spending. We need the bigger, more mature economies to grow their economies and encourage spending a bit more.

That is probably an accurate interpetation there. The money supply issue is a big one. The more money=less worth. The consumer debt will be offset by home ownership. The trade defecit is the biggest problem. We have to tackle it I believe first.

The reason why the US has been on such a spending spree is because its economy is too strong. It can't be blamed for succeeding, but other nations can be blamed for not growing. There has been a savings glut in the rest of the world, and in Western Europe and Japan, growth remains sluggish. The areas that are growing, such as China and Eastern Europe, are growing because of production increases, and not because of consumer spending. We need the bigger, more mature economies to grow their economies and encourage spending a bit more.

Indeed, though I think this raises questions on just how much of this borrowing binge is a good thing, and how much will prove destructive to long-term sustainable growth. The rest of the world is saving too much money, but is the US bound and determined to make up for everyone by spending everything it has a more? This growth comes at a cost we will have to pay for eventually, especially if this saving glut continues.

When things even out, it may be that the US is on the losing end of the disparity.

Much as I would like to say that home ownership is entirely a good thing, it also represents the latest "fad" in spending by consumers already burdened by considerable debt.

Remember the chart represents the amount of money people are borrowing to buy houses; not exactly the same thing as first-time home owners striking out into the market, no? If the housing bubble that many fear bursts we could see a significant loss for many investors.

It's not a zero sum equation. Often, a mortgage could be cheaper than renting. I'm not saying no one gets burned -- some people do buy more house than they should. But just because you might have a few thou in student loans and a car loan is no reason to not buy a home if it is possible.

Yes, if/when that happens, there will be losers.

Indeed, though I think this raises questions on just how much of this borrowing binge is a good thing, and how much will prove destructive to long-term sustainable growth. The rest of the world is saving too much money, but is the US bound and determined to make up for everyone by spending everything it has a more? This growth comes at a cost we will have to pay for eventually, especially if this saving glut continues.

When things even out, it may be that the US is on the losing end of the disparity.
But I believe that, in capitalism, there are never losers in the long run. If we borrow to much, it will result in a weaker dollar, and hence, a stronger manufacturing and export sector. Besides, what we buy now will be an investment for the future.

But I believe that, in capitalism, there are never losers in the long run. If we borrow to much, it will result in a weaker dollar, and hence, a stronger manufacturing and export sector. Besides, what we buy now will be an investment for the future.

If only we were actually spending that borrowed money on investments. We're not. A weaker dollar will in the short term make for a stronger manufacturing and export sector. In the long term it will lead to inflation, higher prices and basically bad things.

Just to drop a source link (http://www.prudentbear.com/) in here.

The mortgage debt is not a good thing. The reason for this is that it doesn't simply represent new homeowners, it also represents people borrowing against owned property. The Federal Reserve reports that 45% of refinancing homeowners liquidated some of their equity, which turned into higher monthly payments for 40% and longer loan life for 80%. It's at federalreserve.gov under the bulletins.

The mortgage debt is not a good thing. The reason for this is that it doesn't simply represent new homeowners, it also represents people borrowing against owned property. The Federal Reserve reports that 45% of refinancing homeowners liquidated some of their equity, which turned into higher monthly payments for 40% and longer loan life for 80%. It's at federalreserve.gov under the bulletins.

Ok, but how much of that was for home improvement? or education? or another home?