NationStates Jolt Archive

I just wanted to know what people thought about god, aliens, and evolution.
I beleive that there might be a god and i know aliens and evolution exist. And tell me where u live, just to compare. I live in atlanta georgia.

I do not know whether there is a God/gods, I do not know whether there are aliens, and I do not know whether macroevolution happened/happens.
I live in Vermont.

You do realize you have unlocked the Pandora's Box of this forum, right? You have doomed this thread to become a thread of flames...

BTW, there is no god(s), we are a relatively complex pattern of atoms that are on the macro level sentient, however stupid and ignorant.

I'm in West Virginia.

I just wanted to know what people thought about god, aliens, and evolution.
I beleive that there might be a god and i know aliens and evolution exist. And tell me where u live, just to compare. I live in atlanta georgia.


I think that the only people who know the truth are in no position to let us know. Personally, I think the dead are all a bunch of arrogant bastards for not letting us in on the secret. :p

I just wanted to know what people thought about god, aliens, and evolution.
I beleive that there might be a god and i know aliens and evolution exist. And tell me where u live, just to compare. I live in atlanta georgia.

I believe that there is a GOD. I am not so certain what I think about the existence of aliens and as for evolution...I just do not know.

I think that with the complexity of forms such as ourselves, there must have been some outside force manipulating our evolution.

I think that outside force is God. So the answer to your question is, yes I believe in God, I just have lost faith in most organized religion.

As for aliens. If the universe is truly as infinite as we believe, it would be arrogant to assume we are the only sentient life forms on it.

EDIT: I don't care if I just contradicted myself. I believe in God, evolution, and aliens...so nyah!

god doesn't exist, that is absolute
evolution exists, that is also ablsolute
and i find it hard to believe that some form of life may it be as small as archae didn't combine from the chemicals somewhere else in the universe.

You do realize you have unlocked the Pandora's Box of this forum, right? You have doomed this thread to become a thread of flames...

BTW, there is no god(s), we are a relatively complex pattern of atoms that are on the macro level sentient, however stupid and ignorant.

I'm in West Virginia.
THAT'S NOT TRUE!!!

Everyone in West Virginia is a guntoting, Biblethumping, zealot. I'm in Maryland, north of the border. Believe me. I know. The INS deported several hundred more illegal West Virginian immigrants just this week. I don't know why the hell they can't just stay in their OWN damn state.

But no. You can claim to be West Virginian, BUT I DON'T SMELL DEER PHEROMONES, LIAR!!!

God- unprovable, unnecessary (do we still exist if we find there isnt any?), so that's a good argument against it.

Aliens- In the Area 51 sense, probably not (it's too impractical to travel distances like that and not make it useful, as in more than surveillance!), but in life on other (extrasolar) planets, possibly. On microbial level, probably. There's no evidence for it, but it's strongly suggested by our knowledge of beginnings of life. Especially with those microbes living in extremely hot/cold environments that we found on Earth.

Evolution- very strong evidence towards, as in fossil samples that show life forms being different in different ages, as well as observable evolution happening in nature and in labs. Very strong evidence. Only reason not to accept it is if you're a creationist or don't know all the facts (or border on the line of ignorance or stupidity).

I know there is a God. I have no doubt in my mind.

I do not know if there are aliens, but I do know, without a doubt, that they have not visited us. (Be warned if you ask for proof, I've gone down this road before.)

I'm reasonably sure evolution is as natural a part of any developing species as breathing or mating.

I live in Texas.

I'm not too sure about God, but I don't believe in evolution. Because if we do evolve, then how did America end up with an ape for a President? Answer me that, you silly, Darwinians.

Do I believe in God? Well, Goddess, actually... :p

Seriously, God is a concept, but if it can help you be a better person and get through the rough patches, more power to you.

For the rest, I would agree with Yupaenu, evolution is an absolute and I can't believe that life hasn't sparked anywhere else.

I'm from Quebec.

Plutophobia, PLEASE tell me you're kidding...

Dr. Anthony Flew would disagree with you.

God? Maybe...
Aliens? Maybe...

Evolution... Do me a favour what a load of old pony.

aliens- yes

NJ

the rest is in my sig

Load of old pony? I'm tempted to do you a favor... and shoot you. or educate you. whichever works.

Believing or not believing in god is something one has to decide for himself. There is no absolute possibility to prove or disprove the existence of a supreme being, as it is a paradox. All you have to ask yourself is, is what you, personally, get out of faith. If it helps you, so be it. But isn't someone weak who has to rely on the spiritual strength of others or the belief in others to manage his problems? Anyway, I suppose that leads to far out ...

Aliens? As a matter of chance, it is highly likely that other beings exist in the universe. The propability that they are sentient is more on the low side though.

Considering Evolution, I believe in the theory that is able to most closely explain incidents on earth, which happens to be evolution right now. Someday, it might be replaced by another, better fitting theory, but until then, Darwin is the way to go.

I live in Germany.

Plutophobia, PLEASE tell me you're kidding...
You can claim George W. Bush is a human, but I don't want hearsay. I want facts. I've written to the White House, numerous times, asking them to subtantiate their claims that Bush is not, in fact, a sub-human primate, with some kind of scientific evidence. But so far, they've refused. Clearly, they've got something to hide.

I believe in god as the creator of this existance, in that it took its superconscious self and stressed it under natural laws that turned it into the subatomic elements that form all of the universe. I believe that god is not conscious of itself, and thus irrelevent in any organised religious sense.

I cannot believe that there are no extraterrestrial life forms of any sort. Partly this is because the universe is massive, and mostly because we have a very narrow viewpoint of what is alive. I feel that life can exist outside of carbon-bases.

I think that evolution is absolute, but possibly poorly explained by our ignorance of it. I completely believe in changing gene frequencies and alelles, as well as progressive adaptation. And I aquiesce that this is a belief as much as a Christian's belief in their God.

Red Deer, ALberta.

Dr. Anthony Flew would disagree with you.

Cute poem.

I do not believe in god(s). The thiestic hypothesis is non-falsifiable and thus not testable. The theory of evolution has been tested and confirmed in many different fields of scince. As for sentient aliens, they probably exist but none of us will live to see communication between Earthlings and aliens.

Believing or not believing in god is something one has to decide for himself. There is no absolute possibility to prove or disprove the existence of a supreme being, as it is a paradox. All you have to ask yourself is, is what you, personally, get out of faith. If it helps you, so be it. But isn't someone weak who has to rely on the spiritual strength of others or the belief in others to manage his problems? Anyway, I suppose that leads to far out ...

Aliens? As a matter of chance, it is highly likely that other beings exist in the universe. The propability that they are sentient is more on the low side though.

Considering Evolution, I believe in the theory that is able to most closely explain incidents on earth, which happens to be evolution right now. Someday, it might be replaced by another, better fitting theory, but until then, Darwin is the way to go.

I live in Germany.





amen, brother

I really dont know either way, honestly i just kinda hope that theres some sort of higher power, and to all the athiests, any chance i could have your souls, you dont think they exist, and i do, so neither of us can lose really. Oh, and http://www.smbc-comics.com/cgi-bin/showComic.cgi?id=54

oh, and i live in indiana

I just wanted to know what people thought about god, aliens, and evolution.
God: I don't know and I don't care. No one else knows either, but whatever.
Aliens: It seems quite probable that some other life exists in the universe. Whether they will ever impact live on our little blue marble is up for debate.
Evolution: It's still going on...

I live in Ontario, Canada.

How can people truly beleave evolution is fake...

look at the anceint bones?
look at the pattern the clearly shows one going to another.

People who do not beleave in evolution are blinde.

I'm pretty much an atheist, with one exception. I think it is possible that there is some form of afterlife where all the brain plasma leaves our brains and during solar flares, it is either returned to the sun or replenished on Earth. But that might be just because I'm really insecure about death.

Evolution is a fact, there are probably aliens but they are too far away for us to talk to.

Maybe I should start my own religion...naw, everyone will think I'm nuts.

And I'm from Manitoba, Canada

I'm pretty much an atheist, with one exception. I think it is possible that there is some form of afterlife where all the brain plasma leaves our brains and during solar flares, it is either returned to the sun or replenished on Earth.
What is "brain plasma"?

Technically that doesn't work ... plasma is a state where matter has reached the ionization point, making it veeeery hot. I'd rather not try that out as brain tissue.

As far as our research is able to tell so far, the brain is basically a gigantic network of nerves which form during our life, thus having no definite plan but rather being a little chaotic. Anyway, if these nerves go up into the sun after your death, well, there goes your little cult :>

Load of old pony? I'm tempted to do you a favor... and shoot you. or educate you. whichever works.


Pablo will educate you. (although I suspect your faith in evolution will leave you closed-minded to it's flaws.)

Consider the Fossil Record

Darwin believed that the fossil record would reveal thousands or millions of life forms which would demonstrate a gradual change from one kind to another (called transitional forms).

But the fossil record has been against the Darwinian theory from the very beginning. It's true that different kinds of organisms lived on the earth at different times. But what is not seen in the fossil record is the steady progressive change of one kind of thing into something completely different. Instead, if something new shows up in the rocks, it shows up all at once and fully formed, and then it stays the same.

If evolution means the steady progressive change of one kind of thing into something completely different, then the fossil record contradicts evolution.

Given the absence of transitional forms in the fossil record, evolutionists quietly acknowledge this is still a "research issue".

There is virtually nothing in the fossil record that can be used as evidence of a transitional life form When apparent examples of useful mutations are examined thoroughly, it becomes clear that no transitional creatures exist anywhere in the fossil record.

So many questions arise in the study of fossils (paleontology) that even many evolutionary paleontologists put little stock in the fossil record. Basing one's belief in evolution on the shaky ground of paleontology can scarcely be considered scientific.

"We are about 120 years after Darwin and the knowledge of the fossil record has been greatly expanded. We now have a quarter of a million species but the situation hasn't changed much. The record of evolution is still surprisingly jerky and, ironically, we have fewer examples of evolutionary transition than we had in Darwin's time." - Dr. David M. Raup, Curator of Geology, Museum of Natural History, Chicago

The lack of the hypothesized intermediates between one species and another is a significant criticism of Darwinism. If land animals truly came from sea creatures, there should be ample evidence of this, such as fossils of fish with their fins turning into legs. Darwin wrote in his Origin of Species that "innumerable transitional forms must have existed." The predicted large numbers of fossil intermediate forms have never been found.

You do realize you have unlocked the Pandora's Box of this forum, right? You have doomed this thread to become a thread of flames...

BTW, there is no god(s), we are a relatively complex pattern of atoms that are on the macro level sentient, however stupid and ignorant.

I'm in West Virginia.

I think that its comments like this one that causes and fuels the flames on forums.

when dealing with such concepts as alien life and exsistance of divine entities, there is no such thing as an absoulte answer or solution. Its not like dealing with numbers, or painting by numbers. You are dealing with abstract thinking, and in fields where there is little, if any 'proof' that can be verified. Its all based around theological thought, and personal experiances.

Until their is a divine revelation or aliens show up, which even if they did people would still argue about what it was, and if it was real or not, no one will ever have 'proof'.

I have my own personal belief structure that is centered around the G-d concept, though very different then most doctrine taught understandings. I am very anti-doctrine anti-organized religion, because I think it just screams hypocrisy, that and any organized religion has seen wars and bloodshed over which branch is 'better' then the other.

I think there could be aliens out there, but there is nothing that proves them, nor disproves them. I do think that if there are aliens out there, that they are simalar to us. And I would hope they would find us, or we would find them in the spirit of exploration, though I would think 'human' nature would kick in and we would start competeing with any other worldly races.

I don't believe in mainstream evloution, and I don't believe in cross bread adaption, one species leading into another. Its a personal view point though, and there is always, as with anything in this world, I could be wrong. I think mankind is a different breed, so to speak. I don't think we are animals, though we share much with them. We may have adapted, or we may have just been more diverse in the past, and have slowly interbred to a much more 'normalized' view of what we are today. That is evident with modern man, as 'races' mingle, skin color and such will blend into one more unified look.


I live in Iowa, USA

The lack of the hypothesized intermediates between one species and another is a significant criticism of Darwinism. If land animals truly came from sea creatures, there should be ample evidence of this, such as fossils of fish with their fins turning into legs. Darwin wrote in his Origin of Species that "innumerable transitional forms must have existed." The predicted large numbers of fossil intermediate forms have never been found.

Rhetorically speaking, it is a dead end to proclaim "No transitional forms have been found.". Yes, they are a pain in the ass for evolution at the moment, but because forms are missing and not because there are none. Archeopterix would be classic example.

Anyway, as I said earlier, I believe in the theory that is able to most completely explain reality. Thus far, that is evolution. If you present me a better one, I'm on your side ... with the slight problem that there is no better theory right now, and don't believe I stopped looking for one once I came across evolution ...

btw pablo ees not a creationist... pablo just doesn't think the whole one species arising from ze other passes ze bullshit test... plus it breaks the second law of thermodynamics

God - Unavoidably omnipresent
Aliens - Statistically likely.
Evolution - Speculation

Rhetorically speaking, it is a dead end to proclaim "No transitional forms have been found.". Yes, they are a pain in the ass for evolution at the moment, but because forms are missing and not because there are none. Archeopterix would be classic example.

Anyway, as I said earlier, I believe in the theory that is able to most completely explain reality. Thus far, that is evolution. If you present me a better one, I'm on your side ... with the slight problem that there is no better theory right now, and don't believe I stopped looking for one once I came across evolution ...

why believe a theory just because it is the best one. I say right now there is no theory that explains it to pablo so pablo ticks the don't know box...

I could do the Occam's Razor thing here but people usually just get mad...

I think mankind is a different breed, so to speak.

What is your reason to believe that? Any logically argumented statement is absolute and true until the end of time, so I'm alway interested in other people's argumentations. I do agree we can't prove or disprove god, but the above statement does seem a bit subjective to me ...

But isn't someone weak who has to rely on the spiritual strength of others or the belief in others to manage his problems?

Only if that is all they are doing. To rely on others than your self is done with other humans, why not on a more supreme being for those things byond anyone's ability to help?

I believe that there is indeed a "Supreme Being". I refer to Him as God and in the masculine more out of habit than anything else. I do not truely believe that God actually has a gender per se' and He is so vast and powerful that it is not inconcevable that he can have controllable "split personalities". I don't believe or trust any of the organized religions. I do call Christiananity my belief system, but there is no one denomination that I can settle into.

In going along with that I can see absolutly no reason why God could not have created everything through an evolutionary process. It would make sense that He would set things up so that it would be as self sustaining as possible. And by setting up the "Laws" such as the Laws of Physics, he allowed Himself to be able to do miracles (If He created everything, I think he's allowed to break His own rules). Evolution does NOT preclude God's exsistance. There is just too much evidence to support evolution and it's all way to complicated with repeting pattrens to have not be done by design.

With Aliens, anyone saying they are an absoulte is fooling themselves. There is no conclusive evidence whatsoever. However, I also cannot believe we are alone, no matter how "unique" hardline "Christians" make the human race to be. If they're smart enough to have FTL travel then I'm willing to bet they're smart enough to contact us when we're ready to know about them. Otherwise there is just toomuch distance between us and the nearest ones to have discovered them yet.

sheesh... maybe pablo will pretend to believe in evolution so he doesn't end up classified with ze happy clappys

What is your reason to believe that? Any logically argumented statement is absolute and true until the end of time, so I'm alway interested in other people's argumentations. I do agree we can't prove or disprove god, but the above statement does seem a bit subjective to me ...

mankind is completly different than any other 'animal' in the world. The way we think, act and play. We have consious thought, which some people argue is just another step on the ladder, but I think its deeper then that. I don't know how or why humans are different, but I feel that we are.

Another point that I will state is that logic isn't always the only way to look at things. There are many things that seem to defie logic, doesn't mean they are false, just different ways of looking at things. Logic, intuition, knowledge, instinct, all different ways to see things, and to explain things in a common ground that others can understand. Yet the core of every mind is unique, and so we even have to conform our thinking to ways others understand. Our unique minds show through, in forms of art and the multitude of languages.

My viewpoints and understandings are my own, and they may not work for others. They are 'truths' that I know, but may not be known or true to others. Every person seeks the path in life that is for them, many find it, others don't, we never know, until its too late to change it, and then we pass to what ever is or isn't out there.

why believe a theory just because it is the best one. I say right now there is no theory that explains it to pablo so pablo ticks the don't know box...

I could do the Occam's Razor thing here but people usually just get mad...

You don't happen, by any chance, be mentally ill (or of royal blood :p )

@ KShaya Vale

Yes, yes, but the point is, WHY do you believe. Does nobody question himself? Don't you question your moral system, that of your country, that of mankind?

What is your reason to believe?

btw pablo ees not a creationist... pablo just doesn't think the whole one species arising from ze other passes ze bullshit test... plus it breaks the second law of thermodynamics
No, it does not break the second law of thermodynamics.

How can people truly beleave evolution is fake...

look at the anceint bones?
look at the pattern the clearly shows one going to another.

People who do not beleave in evolution are blinde.

Not necessarily. There are still missing links out there. Steps in the evolution process of man that they've theroized but not yet found.

My *personal* theory is as follows. Note taht you have to have some belief in the Old Testement/Torah in order to accept this.

There is a section (no I'm not going to look it up right now) that talks about angels coming down and falling in love with human women and having kids by them. These off spring were considered monsters. What is there are false starts to some of the primates developing to higher orders of primates that failed, and the few steps from the missing periods to present aren't evolution but DE-evolution due to those unions?

And for the record, no human goes to heaven and becomes an angel. They are a diffrent species from us and , per Revelation, we will be given dominion over them.

Of course there's a god. His name is John Lennon.
As for aliens, sure. I'd buy that. As for evolution, it makes me happier to think we came from monkeys then everyone being related having been parented by Adam and Eve. That means there's a whole lot of incest goin' on then just in the state of Alabama.

NJ.

Not necessarily. There are still missing links out there. Steps in the evolution process of man that they've theroized but not yet found.

My *personal* theory is as follows. Note taht you have to have some belief in the Old Testement/Torah in order to accept this.

There is a section (no I'm not going to look it up right now) that talks about angels coming down and falling in love with human women and having kids by them. These off spring were considered monsters. What is there are false starts to some of the primates developing to higher orders of primates that failed, and the few steps from the missing periods to present aren't evolution but DE-evolution due to those unions?

And for the record, no human goes to heaven and becomes an angel. They are a diffrent species from us and , per Revelation, we will be given dominion over them.


The Nephimlim (sp?) the "fallen ones" or "those that have fallen"

angel/human crossbreeds, according to the book of enoch they are the cause of the worlds falling into sin and thus the flood came and destroyed the 'world'. Goliaith is one of the further descendents of these giant people, though only one in like 3 angel/human parings even had the giants be born. And something like 200 'watchers' fell at this time too, the watchers being the angels that constructed Eden

Rhetorically speaking, it is a dead end to proclaim "No transitional forms have been found.". Yes, they are a pain in the ass for evolution at the moment, but because forms are missing and not because there are none. Archeopterix would be classic example.

The bigger problem is that every time a new find comes up it doesn't help evolution. Take the "hobbit" recently found on a Island in the South Pacific, it's discovery "forced a rewrite of evolution." The problem? What evolutionists previously held to be true and defended with dogmatic fervor was wrong, and this certainly isn't the first time. Evolutionists have laid the same dogmatic fervor on a pig's tooth, and on the Neanderthal that has only recently been "proven" to NOT be our ancestor after all. It turns out that it was more closely related to a "dwarf-like" creature. So for it has given us hobbits and dwarfs (elfs and fairies are just around the corner >.>) but nothing close to a Human.

Darwin knew damn well that the better portion of his theory was speculation on his part and no progress has been made since him. In fact the blunders in the evolutionary model that so many put their faith in have far outweighed any progress made with the most glaring flaw in evolution.

Micro-evolution I hold to be true, it effects Humans and everything else still today. Macro-evolution still takes a bit too much faith for my taste.

mankind is completly different than any other 'animal' in the world. The way we think, act and play. We have consious thought, which some people argue is just another step on the ladder, but I think its deeper then that. I don't know how or why humans are different, but I feel that we are.

Another point that I will state is that logic isn't always the only way to look at things. There are many things that seem to defie logic, doesn't mean they are false, just different ways of looking at things. Logic, intuition, knowledge, instinct, all different ways to see things, and to explain things in a common ground that others can understand. Yet the core of every mind is unique, and so we even have to conform our thinking to ways others understand. Our unique minds show through, in forms of art and the multitude of languages.

My viewpoints and understandings are my own, and they may not work for others. They are 'truths' that I know, but may not be known or true to others. Every person seeks the path in life that is for them, many find it, others don't, we never know, until its too late to change it, and then we pass to what ever is or isn't out there.

What governs our reality and defines it are the laws of physics, based on the laws of math. Pure reason is based on math, thus reason explains physics and explains reality. Any incident, whichever kind, can be explained using math, physics and reason.

Only those truths that are up to interpretation ("The car is red") have many truth, because their experience differs. Considering der wavelength of a particular beam of light, there are no different truth. It has but one wavelength, and that's it.

I can see why people might believe in god, to gain strength out of the futile belief something might help them, but to believe that man is special despite a sheer lack of arguments is foolish in my oppinion, and serves only to prove man's ignorance. I am not in the position to critisize your viewpoint - I've long given up on trying to chance something - but having a certain oppinion out of the belief that it is right seems lame to me.

btw pablo ees not a creationist... pablo just doesn't think the whole one species arising from ze other passes ze bullshit test... plus it breaks the second law of thermodynamics
In the words on MC Hawking:
“Creationists always try to use the second law, to disprove evolution, but their theory has a flaw. The second law is quite precise about where it applys. Only in closed systems must the entropy count rise. The earth’s not a closed system, it’s powered by the sun”
Oh diz-am you got served.

You don't happen, by any chance, be mentally ill (or of royal blood :p )



Yes... and uh Yes... :D

What governs our reality and defines it are the laws of physics, based on the laws of math. Pure reason is based on math, thus reason explains physics and explains reality. Any incident, whichever kind, can be explained using math, physics and reason.

Only those truths that are up to interpretation ("The car is red") have many truth, because their experience differs. Considering der wavelength of a particular beam of light, there are no different truth. It has but one wavelength, and that's it.

I can see why people might believe in god, to gain strength out of the futile belief something might help them, but to believe that man is special despite a sheer lack of arguments is foolish in my oppinion, and serves only to prove man's ignorance. I am not in the position to critisize your viewpoint - I've long given up on trying to chance something - but having a certain oppinion out of the belief that it is right seems lame to me.

The laws of phisics, do we even understand them? I have read about particles that go against the law of phisics. Particles of 4 neutrons. There is the placebo effect, as well as other things in this world that can not be put into physics, math, logic and these things.

Belief in a divine, or belief in man's being differnt, are person things. I didn't say that mankind was better, yet you read those into my words. We are not the same as any other animal, and we have traits only found in mankind, we are unique. Just like the DaddyLongLeg is uniuqe, being tossed in with spidars and yet not matching the scientific parameters needed to be called an arachnid.

In all my life, I have asked tons of people who told me they believe in god, why they believed in god.

I never got a straight answer. Neither the Witnesses of Jehova could tell me, nor a catholic priest.

Why do you believe in god?

In all my life, I have asked tons of people who told me they believe in god, why they believed in god.

I never got a straight answer. Neither the Witnesses of Jehova could tell me, nor a catholic priest.

Why do you believe in god?

I believe in G-d because I have felt 'him' I've felt his touch upon my skin, and I've heard his voice in my mind. I've seen things that could be described by nothing I could think of, and I've found understandings in myself that have lead me to 'find' my god. Too many times people will 'find' faith because they feel they have to. They feel the obligation to do it. Legalistic viewpoints on religion almost always counter the religion. I have found the outter G-d, from searching my innerperson. That is why I say my path may not be 'truth' for others, but my place isn't to proove others wrong or right, merely to share.

The laws of phisics, do we even understand them? I have read about particles that go against the law of phisics. Particles of 4 neutrons. There is the placebo effect, as well as other things in this world that can not be put into physics, math, logic and these things.

Belief in a divine, or belief in man's being differnt, are person things. I didn't say that mankind was better, yet you read those into my words. We are not the same as any other animal, and we have traits only found in mankind, we are unique. Just like the DaddyLongLeg is uniuqe, being tossed in with spidars and yet not matching the scientific parameters needed to be called an arachnid.

With laws of physics, I dont mean necessarily those laws taught in school. They are only the replica of physics.

And I understood you quite clearly - even if man is different (which it is from a genetic point of view), I don't see why that is important. Dolphins and some species of apes are aware of themselves, it is only a matter of brainpower.

I think that the only people who know the truth are in no position to let us know. Personally, I think the dead are all a bunch of arrogant bastards for not letting us in on the secret. :p
We dead have a saying. Life is wasted on the living.

I believe in G-d because I have felt 'him' I've felt his touch upon my skin, and I've heard his voice in my mind. I've seen things that could be described by nothing I could think of, and I've found understandings in myself that have lead me to 'find' my god. Too many times people will 'find' faith because they feel they have to. They feel the obligation to do it. Legalistic viewpoints on religion almost always counter the religion. I have found the outter G-d, from searching my innerperson. That is why I say my path may not be 'truth' for others, but my place isn't to proove others wrong or right, merely to share.

I share nothing of that.

I only know what I see, and my beliefs are solely based upon reflections in quiet hours and discussions with other people. I don't know anything beyond that, but I'm not sure if I missed something then or you are going down a false path.

God: I don't know
Aliens: I don't know but I'm betting on yes.
Evolution: I don't know but I'm betting on yes.

@ KShaya Vale

Yes, yes, but the point is, WHY do you believe. Does nobody question himself? Don't you question your moral system, that of your country, that of mankind?

What is your reason to believe?

The problem is that the reason I have can't be considered "evidence" but any true sense of the concept. i.e. I've experianced the events that cause me to believe as I do but there is no way to prove that they have occured or are relavent to each other. BUt I will strive to gove examples. And yes I constantly question myself and my belief system.

Anything that I've truely wanted (this sets aside all the whim wants) I have gotten even when occasionally I had started working towards them yet. Finding my Lifemate would be a good example of that. Another piece of personal evidence is that no matter where I go, no bad natural event has occured, even in area that would have them. There were no major snowstorms while I was posted in various regions of the northeast although there were before and after I lived there. There was no hurricanes or tornados in the region of the South I was stationed at during my time. And since I've moved home and prior to my having left it in the first place, nothing. Again, could be just coincidence.

But there is also the evidence in my "heart". Things that I feel are right. It's like when I do something that may be socially taboo and the religious ones say is sinful. I worry about it being wrong in my head, but I don't FEEL it to be. And there are things that FEEL wrong even when there are no laws or rules aginst it. That says to me that there is a guiding spirit. Then there are things that are just so spiritial that I have no words for them.

But I never blindly following anything as being absolute. A large part of my faith is that the creator, whatever He/She/It/They may be is still so far above and away from my ever being able to understand in this form or life that I could be partially or wholely wrong.

I share nothing of that.

I only know what I see, and my beliefs are solely based upon reflections in quiet hours and discussions with other people. I don't know anything beyond that, but I'm not sure if I missed something then or you are going down a false path.

one man's strength is anothers weakness. One person's truth is another's challange. Points of view in this world lead us all into different understandings, and we all see the same things from our own observations. One man may see an explosion, but another may see a series of chemical changes and energy transfers, which leads to the changing of pressure fields. That doesn't mean that either is wrong, just standing on two sides of the same thing, and seeing them different.

In all my life, I have asked tons of people who told me they believe in god, why they believed in god.

I never got a straight answer. Neither the Witnesses of Jehova could tell me, nor a catholic priest.

Why do you believe in god?

Because I should not win so much at Roulette.

(And make out as well as I have in life, without a little intervention now and again. Someone's keeping the karmic ledger... and is munificent.)

@ Slinao & KShaya Vale

Thanks you two for your postings. Although I do not share your experiences, I can now see what your reasons have been. As I see it, both your faith is based on your experiences and intuition ... about what happened to you. Me having had a different past (as everyone else had) this is naturally difficult to comprehend for me, but it has been most interesting nonetheless.

And now, I'm going to bed -.- It's almost 4am ...

Micro-evolution I hold to be true, it effects Humans and everything else still today. Macro-evolution still takes a bit too much faith for my taste.

erm... Macro-evolution is a long term expression of micro-evolution. To accept micro-evolution and deny macro-evolution is paradoxical.

@ Slinao & KShaya Vale

Thanks you two for your postings. Although I do not share your experiences, I can now see what your reasons have been. As I see it, both your faith is based on your experiences and intuition ... about what happened to you. Me having had a different past (as everyone else had) this is naturally difficult to comprehend for me, but it has been most interesting nonetheless.

And now, I'm going to bed -.- It's almost 4am ...

sleep well. I thank you as well for your conversation. You have brought interesting statements and points of view, and from that I will reflect and learn what I may.

I just wanted to know what people thought about god, aliens, and evolution.
I beleive that there might be a god and i know aliens and evolution exist. And tell me where u live, just to compare. I live in atlanta georgia.
Methinks Kabuton probably is on target (as many others are apt to be) about Pandora, but oh well, we could argue some other superficial thing.
The thread name caught my attention, of course. There's potential for some very cool replies. At this reading, i haven't finished the rest yet, just started - i may chime in - but i didn't feel like resisting. So, *ahem* ...
I don't know if aliens exist but i have seen two UFO's myself. I have seen much evidence for mutability of species and there is current ample evidence to supply it (anopheles, et cetera) and since it's merely "static earth" interpretation to lead one to think that evolution doesn't exist in spite of the evidence, i don't have much a problem with it being the case for early hominids - Afarensis and the newer ones from Ethiopia do a pretty good job on that. I guess that would mean that those two things are mutually appreciable, the odds seem pretty good about aliens. I couldn't say no to it.
As for god, i don't know enough about the true parameters of the universe and its levels of existence and interaction to be so foolish as to declare there isn't one - however, in my own experience and the parameters given me by evidence i can grasp, i strongly disagree with the "christian" idea of god and/or old testament ideas of god. I have also experienced things on levels of power that strongly dissuade me from an impersonal universe concept, however, but that may be just a limited understanding again.
So someone might flame that but that's okay, i could get into my "game mode" mentality.
BTW, i live in Alaska. Not next to the missile silos or HAARP.

I think that the only people who know the truth are in no position to let us know. Personally, I think the dead are all a bunch of arrogant bastards for not letting us in on the secret. :p
Well, what about scapulamancy?
:confused:

I think that with the complexity of forms such as ourselves, there must have been some outside force manipulating our evolution.

I think that outside force is God. So the answer to your question is, yes I believe in God, I just have lost faith in most organized religion.

As for aliens. If the universe is truly as infinite as we believe, it would be arrogant to assume we are the only sentient life forms on it.

EDIT: I don't care if I just contradicted myself. I believe in God, evolution, and aliens...so nyah!
Given discourse and topic nature, i don't personally see how you have contradicted yourself. Appreciable candor.

I believe there is a God, and He is Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. I believe he sent his Son Jesus to die for our sins that we might be saved and have eternal life.

Aliens? My guess is no...just due to the fact that it seems inconsistent with God's plan. But hey, that's just my guess. :D

Evolution is a possibility, althought if it did happen, I believe it was directed by God. Being a biology and science major for 8 years, I don't see any logical (or probable) way that random undirected mutations can create order of the magnitude we see in the human body, not to mention abstract ideas like love, hate, philosophy, religious thought, etc.

I believe all this, but still respect others' rights to their own beliefs. I'm not pushing my beliefs on others, just answering the post. :D

God - I believe in God - I can't prove he exists by the scientific method though, anymore than someone can prove he doesn't exist.

Evolution - There is strong evidence to support the theory of evolution and natural selection - to what extent it has led to earth as we know it, no one can say, it is all theory - evolution and God do not cancel each other out though.

Aliens - OK, assume there are 10 billion stars/suns in the universe (there are actually many more, but, for the sake of this post, assume it is only 10 billion). If only 10% of those could support a planetary system that leaves 1 billion and if only 10% of those do have a planetary system, that leaves 100 million and if only 10% of those could support life, that leaves 10 million and if only 10% of those do support life, that leaves 1 million and if only 10% of those could support intelligent life, that leaves 100 thousand and if only 10% of those do support intelligent life, that leaves 10 thousand planets with intelligent life on them. Extropolate from there. The distances and time involved in intergalatic travel though make it highly improbable that alien beings have ever been to earth, even if they know of it.

I'm in Arkansas.

I know there is a God. I have no doubt in my mind.

I do not know if there are aliens, but I do know, without a doubt, that they have not visited us. (Be warned if you ask for proof, I've gone down this road before.)

I'm reasonably sure evolution is as natural a part of any developing species as breathing or mating.

I live in Texas.
M'kay, you warned me ... just how the hades would you or any other human actually KNOW for a fact that aliens have not visited us? Even the bible alludes to it a few times and many, MANY period artworks include them. If you don't feel like winding it at me, pass me a thread ref or something.

I know this is going to change now that I'm saing this,but.....

I'm actually quite plesently surprised that no flames of any real sort have come across here. A couple of crude comments at worse.

Allow me to correct this oversight so that we can have it done and over with....



How could you POSSIBLY BElive that? Only a Moron and a fol have those believes! You wouldny know the truth if it cam up and nit you and kicked you in the ******. OF all the &*%)(#&$%%@ idiots!


Note: the above generalized flame was written complete with bad spelling, puncuation, and capitolization, as well as cursing bulit in. We strive for accuracy! ;)

You can claim George W. Bush is a human, but I don't want hearsay. I want facts. I've written to the White House, numerous times, asking them to subtantiate their claims that Bush is not, in fact, a sub-human primate, with some kind of scientific evidence. But so far, they've refused. Clearly, they've got something to hide.
They're too busy trying to cover up each others' bullsh*t to respond to an average (pardon me) citizen.
Now if you sent papers about his candidacy for (the) ANTICHRIST, well, you might get more of a response.
;)

I know this is going to change now that I'm saing this,but.....

I'm actually quite plesently surprised that no flames of any real sort have come across here. A couple of crude comments at worse.

Allow me to correct this oversight so that we can have it done and over with....

How could you POSSIBLY BElive that? Only a Moron and a fol have those believes! You wouldny know the truth if it cam up and nit you and kicked you in the ******. OF all the &*%)(#&$%%@ idiots!

Note: the above generalized flame was written complete with bad spelling, puncuation, and capitolization, as well as cursing bulit in. We strive for accuracy! ;)

Iraq!

Bush!

I like veal!

Iraq!

Bush!

I like veal!
:confused:

what did I miss?

A god?

Of course... Me! Now on your knees and bring me your gifts, mortals!

I believe in god as the creator of this existance, in that it took its superconscious self and stressed it under natural laws that turned it into the subatomic elements that form all of the universe. I believe that god is not conscious of itself, and thus irrelevent in any organised religious sense.

I cannot believe that there are no extraterrestrial life forms of any sort. Partly this is because the universe is massive, and mostly because we have a very narrow viewpoint of what is alive. I feel that life can exist outside of carbon-bases.

I think that evolution is absolute, but possibly poorly explained by our ignorance of it. I completely believe in changing gene frequencies and alelles, as well as progressive adaptation. And I aquiesce that this is a belief as much as a Christian's belief in their God.

Red Deer, ALberta.

Interesting post!
*bows*

:confused:

what did I miss?

You started with:
I'm actually quite plesently surprised that no flames of any real sort have come across here. A couple of crude comments at worse.

Allow me to correct this oversight so that we can have it done and over with....

But that's no way to go about it. Trust me. Bush/Iraq/Veal will get flames flying much faster. ;)

God: Yes in one shape or another, the divine is somewhere. Do I clame to know what shape and form its in, or what role it plays? Absolutely not. I believe its not proven because it cant be proven, anything less would be undivine.
Aliens: Possible, largely irrelevent
Evolution: Might as well debate the colour of the sky. Yes, evolution has/is/will happen/ed/ing

God - Unavoidably omnipresent
Aliens - Statistically likely.
Evolution - Speculation
Experience itself precludes whether anything being brought up here qualifies as speculation or not.
*critique*

I believe there is a God, and He is Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. I believe he sent his Son Jesus to die for our sins that we might be saved and have eternal life.

My G-d is based on the god of moses and abrham as well, Shaddai, and his son is HaMashiach ben Yoseph, and will become HaMashiach ben David upon his reture to the world and restoring the throne of David upon the earth. Yeshua was the name that we are given as the name of HaMashiach, and that through his death and revelations we have found freedom from sin and death.

We have evidence that Jesus existed. So...yeah. Anyways, I'm pretty sure all of you non-believers are going to burn in hell. I'd convert to Christianity if I were you, just to be safe. I mean, God and Jesus' forgiveness only goes so far. The Jews might get into Heaven because they believe in God, just not Jesus, and maybe Muslims, but the rest of you are out of luck.

There might be a god. But i sure dont beleive in the bible. It was written ny man and we know how men are(liars). You might as well beleive in a god because when u die u will find out, just in case there is one then what harm would it do to beleive. better to be safe then sorry.

Believing in God is like believing in Santa...your parents told you He was real, so you believed. No different than the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, or the Boogie Man. They're all make-believe things for the weak-minded, also referred to as "children."
If you claim yourself to be a mature, intelligent person and still believe in God, you are even more childish than I give you credit for.

Iraq!

Bush!

I like veal!

dare i say LOL

Believing in God is like believing in Santa...your parents told you He was real, so you believed. No different than the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, or the Boogie Man. They're all make-believe things for the weak-minded, also referred to as "children."
If you claim yourself to be a mature, intelligent person and still believe in God, you are even more childish than I give you credit for.
And it's exactly that kind of attitude that's going to earn you a spot in the burning depths of Hell.

You started with:
I'm actually quite plesently surprised that no flames of any real sort have come across here. A couple of crude comments at worse.

Allow me to correct this oversight so that we can have it done and over with....

But that's no way to go about it. Trust me. Bush/Iraq/Veal will get flames flying much faster. ;)
VEAL??!!?!?!?
AARRGGGH!
*tears into a phone book with his teeth*
*promptly reminds himself of his need for a dental checkup*

We have evidence that Jesus existed. So...yeah. Anyways, I'm pretty sure all of you non-believers are going to burn in hell. I'd convert to Christianity if I were you, just to be safe. I mean, God and Jesus' forgiveness only goes so far. The Jews might get into Heaven because they believe in God, just not Jesus, and maybe Muslims, but the rest of you are out of luck.
Yay! Only page 6!
*offers Heikoku's pseudo-christian thread for reference*
That's the spirit!

If u beleive in god u might as well beleive in santa and other creatures because in order to accept the belief in god u must be able to accept other "made up" creatures

Anyways, I'm pretty sure all of you non-believers are going to burn in hell. I'd convert to Christianity if I were you, just to be safe.
The problem here is all the other religions saying exactly the same thing...
It makes it rather difficult to pick.

Bu that's probably a matter for another thread entirely.

I just wanted to know what people thought about god, aliens, and evolution.
I beleive that there might be a god and i know aliens and evolution exist. And tell me where u live, just to compare. I live in atlanta georgia.

Science is my god ^^

Aliens? I'm sure they do exist somewhere out there, but they sure as hell aren't visiting us.

Evolution? A sure thing!

Northern California, deep, deep in the redwoods, some of the most beautiful scenery on earth :)

God - only before Neitzsche
Aliens - I exist (oh, you don't mean immigrants), Very very probable
Evolution - The best current theory

And it's exactly that kind of attitude that's going to earn you a spot in the burning depths of Hell.

A) By his logic there IS no hell, and therefore no need to worry.
B) If being in heaven means being with people who think beleiving in a difficult to accept stipulation is reason to condemn someone to the depths of hell, perhaps hell is preferable?
C) If the people who throw around hellfire and damnation are the ones going to heaven, would you suffer more in heaven than in hell? Methinks so...

Believing in God is like believing in Santa...your parents told you He was real, so you believed. No different than the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, or the Boogie Man. They're all make-believe things for the weak-minded, also referred to as "children."
If you claim yourself to be a mature, intelligent person and still believe in God, you are even more childish than I give you credit for.
To be fair, the whole Santa thing works really well as an intermediary for the parents, since often a kid wouldn't like a gift they got but will be blaming Santa for it as long as the attention span works, then the kid might hear of other kids getting good presents from Santa, and then the whole "he knows when you've been bad or good" rigmarole kicks in, and voila, parents have managed to have their child's discontent directed at a pervasive and untouchable source. You're right, that does sound a lot like the believing in god thing, in a way - with the other examples too!
*cringes in the corner and evaluates upbringing*
*searches desperately for security blanket*

VEAL??!!?!?!?
AARRGGGH!
*tears into a phone book with his teeth*
*promptly reminds himself of his need for a dental checkup*

Yes... and someday I'd like to have a veal dinner with George Bush in Iraq!
(In 10-15 years once the place is stable.)

Note: This post is entirely tounge and cheek. If you take it seriously, your toaster will break tomorrow.

Northern California, deep, deep in the redwoods, some of the most beautiful scenery on earth :)
Amen to that!!
*bows*

I guess it doesn't matter anymore, but I am a faithful Christi- wait, I can't say Christian and make it sound real anymore, can I?

Hold on, let's start again.

I am a saved follower of Christ the Lord Jesus. Evolution, in the sense that animals (including humans) DO adapt to differing climates over time, is real. And, finally, I believe that aliens CAN exist. And I have Biblical proof that they do, but they just may be humans living on a different planet: The Tower of Babel story in Genesis, where mankind was scattered. No reason for men to be scattered among the stars as well, right?

Oh yes, and I live in Orlando, Florida.

God - Not a chance
Aliens - Yes; Sentient ones? Not sure
Evolution - Is the sky in Western Washington grey half the year? Yes.

Im in Washington.

Yes... and someday I'd like to have a veal dinner with George Bush in Iraq!
(In 10-15 years once the place is stable.)

Note: This post is entirely tounge and cheek. If you take it seriously, your toaster will break tomorrow.
That is SO creepy. That's exactly what my horoscope says!
*shiver*
:eek:
So, maybe they ought to include prognostication on this thread?

:EDIT: Might want to steer clear of the pretzels. ;)

That is SO creepy. That's exactly what my horoscope says!
*shiver*
:eek:
So, maybe they ought to include prognostication on this thread?

:EDIT: Might want to steer clear of the pretzels. ;)

Nah. I'll just stick to writing fortune cookies. :D

Evolution, in the sense that animals (including humans) DO adapt to differing climates over time, is real. .

See pablo doesn't have a problem with that... But that is not evolution, that is natural selection

evolution involves one species turning into another... take the bat... supposedly evolved from the shrew... but it would have had to be some freaky mutation to be boprn with wings and sonar at the same time. without both, it would have been a non-starter... ie a shrew with sonar would have had no advantage and therefore would not have lived on and a shrew with wings and no sonar would have crashed into stuff... ipso facto res ipsa loquitor :P

See pablo doesn't have a problem with that... But that is not evolution, that is natural selection

evolution involves one species turning into another... take the bat... supposedly evolved from the shrew... but it would have had to be some freaky mutation to be boprn with wings and sonar at the same time. without both, it would have been a non-starter... ie a shrew with sonar would have had no advantage and therefore would not have lived on and a shrew with wings and no sonar would have crashed into stuff... ipso facto res ipsa loquitor :P

No... The bat and the shrew share a close COMMON ANCESTER. That means that some time not too long ago (in comparison...) a species became the modern ancester of shrews and the modern ancester of bats.

Believing in God is like believing in Santa...your parents told you He was real, so you believed. No different than the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, or the Boogie Man. They're all make-believe things for the weak-minded, also referred to as "children."
If you claim yourself to be a mature, intelligent person and still believe in God, you are even more childish than I give you credit for.

Then how do you explain the dozens of people who I know who grew up in non-religious homes and are now Christians? How do you explain the people I know who grew up in religious homes who are now Athiests? If your parents decided your faith for you then how does faith differ between parent and child?
By your last statement I take it to mean that Copernicus was an absolute fool. As was Gegor Mendel, Albert Einstein, Isaac Newton, Martin Luther King Jr., Ghandi, and countless others who have had extremley strong faith and were not "weak-minded".

Just so everybody knows, I'm fine with you all having different religions (or no religion) I'm just saying that you'll burn in Hell for following them. I'm trying to do you a favor here people. Anyways, I figure Heaven'll be great, I bet that each person gets their own version of Heaven when they get up there, you could probably choose to go back and be a dinosaur for a week, or something like that. I wonder if you get to have sex in Heaven? Hmm...

Then how do you explain the dozens of people who I know who grew up in non-religious homes and are now Christians? How do you explain the people I know who grew up in religious homes who are now Athiests? If your parents decided your faith for you then how does faith differ between parent and child?
By your last statement I take it to mean that Copernicus was an absolute fool. As was Gegor Mendel, Albert Einstein, Isaac Newton, Martin Luther King Jr., Ghandi, and countless others who have had extremley strong faith and were not "weak-minded".
Oh, what now Hitler?

No... The bat and the shrew share a close COMMON ANCESTER. That means that some time not too long ago (in comparison...) a species became the modern ancester of shrews and the modern ancester of bats.

sure but either way there was a non flying non sonaring thing and then a flying sonaring thing and that is one heck of a leap... and the real point is that the "transitional" thing would have had to develop all the characteristics at once or there would have been no survival advantage... and that is one heck of a mutant

Then how do you explain the dozens of people who I know who grew up in non-religious homes and are now Christians? How do you explain the people I know who grew up in religious homes who are now Athiests? If your parents decided your faith for you then how does faith differ between parent and child?

That's being disingenuous. Parents are a major force in religion, but not the only influence. Your surroundings, your culture, your genetic make up, and your own intelligence and intellectual environment (I.E. what kind of facts have you grown up around.) are also large contributors.


By your last statement I take it to mean that Copernicus was an absolute fool. As was Gegor Mendel, Albert Einstein, Isaac Newton, Martin Luther King Jr., Ghandi, and countless others who have had extremley strong faith and were not "weak-minded".

Albert Einstein? He was religious later in his life, but mostly for political reasons.

All I can really say to that is: Even the best of us make foolish decisions sometimes. These very intelligent men were influenced by their surroundings. They made choices that forsook logic and good sense, but everyone makes mistakes some times.

Just so everybody knows, I'm fine with you all having different religions (or no religion) I'm just saying that you'll burn in Hell for following them. I'm trying to do you a favor here people. Anyways, I figure Heaven'll be great, I bet that each person gets their own version of Heaven when they get up there, you could probably choose to go back and be a dinosaur for a week, or something like that. I wonder if you get to have sex in Heaven? Hmm...


Do you mean to be mocking the beleifes of the christian religion, or are you simply unaware of how ignorant you sound. Your tribalistic, small minded, arrogant attitude certainly provides an accurate charicature of some of the more dogmatic religious folk I've met, but it seems a bit over the edge. Frankly, harping on the whole "burn in hell" thing is obnoxious, silly, and not likely to change anyone's mind if they have chosen atheism. Your gloating only makes us even less likely to take you seriously. Have fun with your dinosaur.... Though I'm not sure I want to know what you intend to do with it.

sure but either way there was a non flying non sonaring thing and then a flying sonaring thing and that is one heck of a leap... and the real point is that the "transitional" thing would have had to develop all the characteristics at once or there would have been no survival advantage... and that is one heck of a mutant
Suppose it eventually evolved wings and it flied diurnally, instead of nocturnally, and then later some individuals gain sonar, which presents the advantage of flying at night, to avoid competition. Or maybe they gained sonar to hunt at night, and later wings to fly?

I'm agnostic, but creationism seems too far-fetched, whereas evolution seems like a process I can follow (well, not literally, as it takes too long, but I can at least look at the past's evolutionary changes).

"No sane person can be a true athiest, as no sane person can truly believe in God. For to do either, implies a surety of ideas that can not exist in a rational mind."

-Louis Hobbs-

"Evolution is most assuredly valid in explaining the current shape of life on Earth. It fails, however, to conclusively account for the origin of life on Earth."

-Louis Hobbs-

"There can be no doubt whatsoever that life alien to Earth exists. Whether that life has the means, motive or inclination to take a trip to Earth - That's a whole new barrel of Thargnoks."

-Louis Hobbs-

Suppose it eventually evolved wings and it flied diurnally, instead of nocturnally, and then later some individuals gain sonar, which presents the advantage of flying at night, to avoid competition. Or maybe they gained sonar to hunt at night, and later wings to fly?

I'm agnostic, but creationism seems too far-fetched, whereas evolution seems like a process I can follow (well, not literally, as it takes too long, but I can at least look at the past's evolutionary changes).

I agree creationism is far fetched where we seem to disagree is that I think evolution (as explained to me anyway ) is equally far fetched.

trouble is i should probably stay out of the discussion because

1. I have nothing better to offer
2. Evolutionists are like religious fanatics they will not countenance alternative opinions
3. you get lumped in with creationists by default.

Just so everybody knows, I'm fine with you all having different religions (or no religion) I'm just saying that you'll burn in Hell for following them. I'm trying to do you a favor here people. Anyways, I figure Heaven'll be great, I bet that each person gets their own version of Heaven when they get up there, you could probably choose to go back and be a dinosaur for a week, or something like that. I wonder if you get to have sex in Heaven? Hmm...
Hah! You're a riot!
I >imagine< heaven would be great, "up there", where what if i chose to have sex with a dinosaur? Could i contribute to evolution in a quicker fashion?

2. Evolutionists are like religious fanatics they will not countenance alternative opinions
\


Show me one please. There are a distinct lack of them. Just like I accept Newton's theory of gravity because it is the best explaniaiton of a natural phenomenon, I accept evolution. If you can provide a more beleivable scientific answer to the question of speciation, feel free to contribute.

\


Show me one please. There are a distinct lack of them. Just like I accept Newton's theory of gravity because it is the best explaniaiton of a natural phenomenon, I accept evolution. If you can provide a more beleivable scientific answer to the question of speciation, feel free to contribute.

It's still evolution, I suppose, but Lamarkism (http://www.eternism.com/LivingEternons/livingeternons16.htm) . The criticisms of it apply equally well to Darwinian Evolution.
Oh, and Newton's theory of gravity does not explain anything, it just describes behaviour of objects under the effect of gravity. No explanation whatsoever of what gravity is, (Einstein gave us some form of explanation, but ti is still not very clear.)

It's still evolution, I suppose, but Lamarkism (http://www.eternism.com/LivingEternons/livingeternons16.htm) . The criticisms of it apply equally well to Darwinian Evolution.
Oh, and Newton's theory of gravity does not explain anything, it just describes behaviour of objects under the effect of gravity. No explanation whatsoever of what gravity is, (Einstein gave us some form of explanation, but ti is still not very clear.)

Gravity wasn't a good example I know, but I couldn't think of a better one off the top of my head.

Lamarkism has been disproved. There is no mechanism that would promote his evolution by use and disuse. We HAVE found a mechanism that promotes evolution: DNA and genes which provide strong support to natural selection, and in correlation, to Darwinian Evolution.

The point I was trying to make is the reason that Evolutionists are "closed" to ideas is because they have not seen another explanation for speciation which can be prooved by the scientific method. It's not so much "closed" as not seeing a viable alternative.

Why do you believe in god?

Because Allah has revealed "himself" to me. Probably the same reason you believe in your parents.

Dont think there is a god but dont know if I can prove it one way or another so agnoistic ... think evolution is going the right way may not be there yet but unless there is a lot of contradictory data ... and yeah lol

Pablo will educate you. (although I suspect your faith in evolution will leave you closed-minded to it's flaws.)

Consider the Fossil Record

Darwin believed that the fossil record would reveal thousands or millions of life forms which would demonstrate a gradual change from one kind to another (called transitional forms).

But the fossil record has been against the Darwinian theory from the very beginning. It's true that different kinds of organisms lived on the earth at different times. But what is not seen in the fossil record is the steady progressive change of one kind of thing into something completely different. Instead, if something new shows up in the rocks, it shows up all at once and fully formed, and then it stays the same.

If evolution means the steady progressive change of one kind of thing into something completely different, then the fossil record contradicts evolution.

Given the absence of transitional forms in the fossil record, evolutionists quietly acknowledge this is still a "research issue".
Really?

http://www.bible.ca/tracks/ape-man-line-up.jpg

Really?

http://www.bible.ca/tracks/ape-man-line-up.jpg
Not to mention in essence EVERY form is a transitional form but would appear as a final form depending on when ya looked at it

No.

"No sane person can be a true athiest, as no sane person can truly believe in God. For to do either, implies a surety of ideas that can not exist in a rational mind."

-Louis Hobbs-

"Evolution is most assuredly valid in explaining the current shape of life on Earth. It fails, however, to conclusively account for the origin of life on Earth."

-Louis Hobbs-

"There can be no doubt whatsoever that life alien to Earth exists. Whether that life has the means, motive or inclination to take a trip to Earth - That's a whole new barrel of Thargnoks."

-Louis Hobbs-

Sweet, sounds like he and I could get along. Reference to books/website/etc. that can provide information on him?

Then how do you explain the dozens of people who I know who grew up in non-religious homes and are now Christians? How do you explain the people I know who grew up in religious homes who are now Athiests? If your parents decided your faith for you then how does faith differ between parent and child?
By your last statement I take it to mean that Copernicus was an absolute fool. As was Gegor Mendel, Albert Einstein, Isaac Newton, Martin Luther King Jr., Ghandi, and countless others who have had extremley strong faith and were not "weak-minded".

Ah, Ike Newton. He had to petition the board of Cambridge University when he was studying there so he wouldn't have to take theological studies. He didnt want to do it. that suggests to me he didnt have a very strong faith.

i know that there is a god. evolution and aliens do not exist. i may not have proof for anyone else (except the Bible), but i have seen god work through so many people, including myself. i do not care what other people say, because it will not convince me that there is no god.

Jesus Christ is my lord and savior.

God: No

Aliens: Seems very likely given how big the universe is but I have no way of knowning I think there probably are Aliens.

Evolution: Yes

By the way since when did Einstein have "Strong Faith" ?

You know what would be funny? If there were equal numbers of religious people and athiests, with us, the agnostics, in the middle - would that make the forum, as a whole, agnostic? :)

I agree with Bolol: "I think that outside force is God. So the answer to your question is, yes I believe in God, I just have lost faith in most organized religion."

I believe there is a god, or many, just not in the sense we have now, also christianity is the most screwed up contradicting religion there ever was.
The bible is all about peace and loving your neighbour. Explain the crusades?
The bible says you should go out and show everyone the love of christ. That's why christians keep to themselves.
Also christianity is the only religion over history which has fought amongst itself and is the religion which has cause most religious wars. Although Islam is quickly following suit.

Therefore I believe in god, although do not agree with most organized religion. All gods in all religions may be the same, but worshiped in different ways. Therefore find the religion who's ideals you agree with most and follow it.
Aliens, most definatly exist, and probably have there own respective gods which also exist.
Evolution is a bit shady, it exists although what evolved from what is completely screwed. Humans most likely evolved from pigs than monkeys. Most of our organs are very similar or the same as that of a pig.

By the way since when did Einstein have "Strong Faith" ?
Einstein has been quoted as saying:
"God does not play dice."

And

"Religion without science is blind, science without religion is dull."

I don't exactly know what Einstein's religious beliefs were. He was extremely skeptical of the Bible's infallibility, and wrote that it was quite obvious that the accounts given clearly weren't true. He was born Jewish, but I don't believe he was devout. But he certainly wasn't an atheist, either. Probably a deist.

Einstein has been quoted as saying:
"God does not play dice."


I believe the proper quote is, "God does not play dice with the universe," which really is more about a set system of rules rather than whim and chance ruling how the world acts - and thus in favor of a set system of physics, shich is kind of necessary for a physicist.

no god or creator
no afterlife
no hocus pocus or superhuman abilities
maybe aliens yet they never been here and won't come here (universe too big)

dunno, dun care. if there is a god/dess, why hasnt s/he shown their face recently. last time was when muhammed supposedly meditated and got told the koran. for all we know, he might have been smoking the strong stuff ;)

okay, i appologise to anyone insulted by that last comment. for me, i believe god/dess or gods/desses are just an embodyment of self-hope. some can call it false hope, but hope is a strong thing that can keep people going

btw, originaly Pt Pirie (South AU), via Roxby Downs(again, bloody South AU), currently Sydney (New South Wales..... hell yeah, glad to be out of that state....)

I just wanted to know what people thought about god, aliens, and evolution.
I beleive that there might be a god and i know aliens and evolution exist. And tell me where u live, just to compare. I live in atlanta georgia.

God is a vague term. I won't rule out the possibility that anything from ourselves, our immediate environment or this entire universe, was made by a conscious being or group of conscious beings with a purpose in mind. If so, the technology used is so far beyond our own that we cannot find evidence for it, or even detect it if they intervene in our universe in some way, unless they reveal themselves in a way that could not be coincidence or faked. Which has not happened so far, so the point is moot.

Aliens definitely. If you look at the number of stars, there are bound to be some that have planets that can sustain life, in spite of the small odds. Whether there is any chance of them being able to communicate in such a way we can understand it, or close enough to make contact, is another matter.

Evolution and natural selection itself is a principle. It can be shown in simulations, and therefore exists. Genetic mutation has been observed as well. From fossils, we have also concluded that biological evolution has occasionally occurred in nature.
The theory that all life on Earth evolved from one (or at least very few) single-celled species has therefore encountered no solid counter-evidence, and a lot of supportive evidence, though it cannot be conclusively proven yet. I believe it, mainly because (see 'God') it is the simplest explanation for our existence, and thus supported by Occam's Razor.

I also do not believe any of the above mentioned beliefs can be termed "knowledge" in my case. The first because I have no evidence for either side, the second because I have not observed them, and the last because I lack the factual knowledge to prove it. If a biologist claims to "know" evolution is true, that is more valid than if I claim to "know" it.

Of course there's a god. His name is John Lennon.
As for aliens, sure. I'd buy that. As for evolution, it makes me happier to think we came from monkeys then everyone being related having been parented by Adam and Eve. That means there's a whole lot of incest goin' on then just in the state of Alabama.

NJ.

Sorry buddy, but they did ancestry testing and the majority (they never found a descenting sample but did not test everyone) decended from a single man, and just to burst the bubble of racist purists, he was light brown skinned.

I just wanted to know what people thought about god, aliens, and evolution.
I beleive that there might be a god and i know aliens and evolution exist. And tell me where u live, just to compare. I live in atlanta georgia.
Oh, please, not AGAIN!

Sorry buddy, but they did ancestry testing and the majority (they never found a descenting sample but did not test everyone) decended from a single man, and just to burst the bubble of racist purists, he was light brown skinned.
actually, the ancestry testing that has held up best can't even trace through men, it uses the mitochondrial DNA which is inhereted from the mother. thus, the line actually started with a brown-skinned WOMAN. how's that for bursting some bubbles! :)

I just wanted to know what people thought about god, aliens, and evolution.
I beleive that there might be a god and i know aliens and evolution exist. And tell me where u live, just to compare. I live in atlanta georgia.
i believe no human being can possibly know whether or not God exists. i believe it is better to base one's life and one's values upon the known, rather than on vague theories about the unknown, so i believe it is inappropriate to tout "faith" as a virtue. because of this, some people seem to believe i am atheist, but i am not.

By the way since when did Einstein have "Strong Faith" ?
he didn't:

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." - Albert Einstein

I do not know whether there is a God/gods, I do not know whether there are aliens, and I do not know whether macroevolution happened/happens.
I live in Vermont.

There is no God, statistically there has to be Aliens & evolution happens.
I live in Wellingtøn, New Zealand.

Regarding the question, "Is there a God?":

I regret that none of you are authorized for this information.

There is no God, statistically there has to be Aliens & evolution happens.
I live in Wellingtøn, New Zealand.

Hmm. But there are 3 kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics!

Saying there is no God is a damned lie, and Aliens & evolution are statistics, which are lies...

Ergo, there is a God, the only Aliens are illegal, and evolultion may happen. :D

actually, the ancestry testing that has held up best can't even trace through men, it uses the mitochondrial DNA which is inhereted from the mother. thus, the line actually started with a brown-skinned WOMAN. how's that for bursting some bubbles! :)

I'm pretty sure male ancestor testing does work, although i dont know how effective it is. I heard a story on the news a while ago about a single male ancestor several thousand years ago, there might have been a female too but i dont remember that.

God(s) - I don't beleive. But In my opinion it's not the problem. Organized
religion is. I've seen 'faith in god' giving people streght and so on. It doesn't
proof anything, but if it helps people then it's more good than bad. Organized
religion is another thing...

Aliens - Most likely. And we don't necessarly have to go too far. Some scientists
say that one of the jupiters moon (Europe I think) is covered with ice, but under
the surface is happening vulcano eruptions and other (Don't really know).
Anyway they say there could be life "of some sort"

Evolution - I beleive it. Humans are 98% same as apes. 2% isn't much in
5? million years. But again I can see why people don't beleive the theory.

Really?

http://www.bible.ca/tracks/ape-man-line-up.jpg

More to the point::)
http://www.ahajokes.com/crt145.html

http://www.400monkeys.com/God/index.html

there is no god. but there is fate.

The short answer is .....yes there is a God.....the long answer is that you will have to wait until you get the ultimate truth. In the meantime, enjoy life, but not to the detriment of your fellow humans.

some of us have less time than u think

I just wanted to know what people thought about god, aliens, and evolution.
I beleive that there might be a god and i know aliens and evolution exist. And tell me where u live, just to compare. I live in atlanta georgia.
I believe that there is a god, that there is alien life and that the theory of evolution does indeed exist.
I live in Canada.

\


Show me one please. There are a distinct lack of them. Just like I accept Newton's theory of gravity because it is the best explaniaiton of a natural phenomenon, I accept evolution. If you can provide a more beleivable scientific answer to the question of speciation, feel free to contribute.

Um well there's you when you said on page 7
"Evolution - Is the sky in Western Washington grey half the year? Yes."

there is also these people
page 1 Garabedian "i know aliens and evolution exist"
page 1 Yupaenu "evolution exists, that is also ablsolute"
page 1 The Chocolate Goddess "I would agree with Yupaenu, evolution is an absolute "
page 2 Italian Korea (in response to me saying evolution was a load of old pony) "Load of old pony? I'm tempted to do you a favor... and shoot you. "
Page 2 RipTide Monzarc "evolution is absolute"
Page 2 38 "The theory of evolution has been tested and confirmed in many different fields of scince."
Page 2 Soviet Hinata "How can people truly beleave evolution is fake...look at the anceint bones? look at the pattern the clearly shows one going to another. People who do not beleave in evolution are blinde.
Page 2 Latouria "Evolution is a fact"
Page 6 Great Beer and food "Evolution? A sure thing"

Most people say (more or less) "meh it's unproven but I choose it as the best option available..." I guess I'm like that but more like "meh It's unproven and a bit too far fetched for me and I'm comfortable not knowing, so so I'm just gonna say I don't know. "

see Pablo uses the principle of parsimony to evaluate scientific theories and when I see a theory that says we started with dirt and chemicals, and then something happened that we don't know what it was and a single cell organism was created, and over millions of years stuff happened that we think was mutations that increased the chance of that organism breeding we got the marmoset and the girraffe. and for a while everything was a fish but some things discovered they had a better chance of surviving if they grew legs... of course the fish survived too... and although evolution takes a long long time we don't seem to see the mutations anymore but oh well....

I say hmmm you are asking me to accept too many assumptions there, so I'll say I'll take a rain check on that one thanks...

of course their isnt a god. just as there is no father christmas, tooth fairy, or easter bunny. hes just a tool to get foolish adults to do what other evil adults want them to. to all those who say god has revealed himself to them... dont be silly. its called a hallucination. besides, why only reveal himself to a handfull of select people? is he not powerful enough to reveal himself to everyone? why do it so personally? why not have the words "oi, athiests, i am real, actually! appear on the moon overnight in all languages? that would convince me. white lights appearing in my vision and booming voices leading me to weep at its beauty would only make me think id had too much of whatever i was having. also, why make people like me, people who are repulsed by the very idea of a god, who if they met him would try and throttle him for ruining everything so badly, putting everyone through this crap (especially those poor caterpillars eaten inside out by parasite wasps. fortunate for them god loves them too, or he might make them suffer. at least they can take comfort in that as they see a baby wasp burst from their abdomen (or rather, insect abdomen equivalent)) all so that he can test us to see whether we will be fitting slaves in heaven, or whether we need eternal punishment for not doing exactly as he says. but why need to test us? surely he knows what we will be like, as he is allegedly all knowing, so why bother with a damn test?! hes not a smart fellow, this god of yours, is he? but im drifting quite off topic, which i probably did several lines of angry rant ago...

their is almost certainly aliens. they probably havent bothered to visit this crappy, war ridden hellhole though, least of all to kidnap and probe cows and drunk hicks who want publicity. its probably best we dont advertise our planet, as they may think, "now, we advanced past violence millenia ago, but these stupid little monkeys really need a good smack" and evaporate us all.

evolution is true. of course it is. only creation "scientists" disagree, and thats because they are crazy fellows in the pay of the church, much like those who deny global warming are in the pay of oil companies and the US government.

and if you want to criticise me, please dont use damn silly words like n00b (not even a word). im sure i inadvertantly contadicted myself at least 13 times, so you can just pull it apart through that anyway. have fun.

Regarding the question, "Is there a God?":

I regret that none of you are authorized for this information.
Come, come! I regret that you simply didn't send in your cereal box tops to get your super-duper secret decoder ring in the mail!
Groovy! :gundge:

actually, the ancestry testing that has held up best can't even trace through men, it uses the mitochondrial DNA which is inhereted from the mother. thus, the line actually started with a brown-skinned WOMAN. how's that for bursting some bubbles! :)
You rock.
Eggers-on in this department should take a few notes from Bottle.

I'm pretty sure male ancestor testing does work, although i dont know how effective it is. I heard a story on the news a while ago about a single male ancestor several thousand years ago, there might have been a female too but i dont remember that.
there is some male ancestor testing that is being used, usually by following a Y chromosome, but it's not as good (so far) as tracking mitochondrial DNA. this is partly because the Y chromosome (like the X) will be recombined and modified slightly in each generation. mitochondrial DNA is more of a closed system.

the moment you ask yourself if God exists, He is knocking at yout head/soul

I heard that we use max 20% of our brain. If we are made "like Him" it means that when we'll use 100% of it, we'll be same as Him. But the problem is that when we progress in using more of our brain, the capacity of the brain grows also.... and we'll find ourselves in the situation of a climber that climbs a mountain which also grows continuously.

Thats pretty deep man, but i belive without a doubt that there is a God (only one). I dont belive in evolution because i didnt come from a monkey you can all belive that but i didnt.

Thats pretty deep man, but i belive without a doubt that there is a God (only one). I dont belive in evolution because i didnt come from a monkey you can all belive that but i didnt.
you didn't come from a monkey? neither did I. But the human race evolved. As to whether there's a god, who cares? It makes no difference one way or the other.

I heard that we use max 20% of our brain. If we are made "like Him" it means that when we'll use 100% of it, we'll be same as Him. But the problem is that when we progress in using more of our brain, the capacity of the brain grows also.... and we'll find ourselves in the situation of a climber that climbs a mountain which also grows continuously.
the "we only use 20% of our brain" thing is a total myth. we only UNDERSTAND a small percentage of what our brain does, but our technology has long since enabled us to conclusively determine that the entire brain (in a normal person) is doing SOMETHING. we just don't know what.

the "we only use 20% of our brain" thing is a total myth.
A terribly terribly false myth, too. I can't believe that there are still people around who believe it. It gets even worse when people think "oh, 20% of brain=20% of potential" and writes an idiotic pop psychology book about it. Fuck, do I hate those stupid books![/rant_mode]

Thats pretty deep man, but i belive without a doubt that there is a God (only one). I dont belive in evolution because i didnt come from a monkey you can all belive that but i didnt.

evolution isn't that humans came from monkeys, the theory states that both humans and monkeys evolved from a common ancestor.

the "we only use 20% of our brain" thing is a total myth. we only UNDERSTAND a small percentage of what our brain does, but our technology has long since enabled us to conclusively determine that the entire brain (in a normal person) is doing SOMETHING. we just don't know what.
We do know what it is. Mostly processing and storing memories, language use, motor skills, maintaining bodily functions, controlling limbs, muscular control, processing sensory information, etc etc etc.
Those idiots who believe that 20% bullshit obviously don't have a clue about what your brain does. And they're obviously using far less than their '20%'.


As for is there a God?
Well, you are conversing with Him. Mainly me.
At the last election, I put down 'Deity' as my occupation on the voting paper, and it was accepted. Which means, as far as I know, I'm the only person who is a State-recognised Deity.

I dont belive in evolution because i didnt come from a monkey you can all belive that but i didnt.
oh dear god people, READ A BLOODY BOOK. the statement "people come from monkeys" DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION. at least learn what evolution IS before you start rambling.

Thats pretty deep man, but i belive without a doubt that there is a God (only one). I dont belive in evolution because i didnt come from a monkey you can all belive that but i didnt.
Quite right that you didn't come from a monkey. However scientific opinion is divided over whether monkeys may have come from you.


You did mean 'come from a monkey' and not 'come with a monkey'?

Only wondering.

A terribly terribly false myth, too. I can't believe that there are still people around who believe it. It gets even worse when people think "oh, 20% of brain=20% of potential" and writes an idiotic pop psychology book about it. Fuck, do I hate those stupid books![/rant_mode]

Just because you didn't and they are now much richer than you. I hate those stupid books too, but I have to admire the authors for their business acumen.

As for is there a God?
Well, you are conversing with Him. Mainly me.
At the last election, I put down 'Deity' as my occupation on the voting paper, and it was accepted. Which means, as far as I know, I'm the only person who is a State-recognised Deity.

No, I'm God. Who do you think is screwing up your life every day?

Just because you didn't and they are now much richer than you.
If I wrote a book on psychology, I would use TRUER lies than they did!

:D
I hate those stupid books too, but I have to admire the authors for their business acumen.
You have a point. It took a lot of business savvy to sell some of those, I'd bet.

Here are my views:

Aliens: Yet to see a case I couldn't disprove with science/wheather.

Evolution: Possible, but I think it is flawed. Read Darwins Theory and then read a few books about creation and you should get a slight idea of how we really evolved.

As far as God goes, there is definately a God. Scientist at the Central European Reaseach Center(CERN), have proven that it is possible for a Universe to be created from nothing but pure energy, which looks like white light, and is known as photon. So basically assuming that God is made of photon he could create a universe by simply clapping his hands together. And if we look at the Bible, and people accounts of near death experiences we would see that God is desribes as bright white Light. Just conicidence maybe, but to say there was no higher being would be naive.

Think of this:

If there is no God, and we believe in him, we lose nothing, but if there is a God and we don't we lose everything.

*looks in mirror, touches himself*

Yup, I exist.

Well if you think you are God, and really act that arrogant in real life, good luck getting friends.

Well if you think you are God, and really act that arrogant in real life, good luck getting friends.
i'm fairly sure he was joking...

Well if you think you are God, and really act that arrogant in real life, good luck getting friends.

I forgive you for your trespasses, son, but yer dang lucky I haven't added "failure to understand sarcasm" to my 7 Deadly Sins list...yet.

Well if you think you are God, and really act that arrogant in real life, good luck getting friends.
That says more about what your idea of God is than his. ;-)

Think of this:

If there is no God, and we believe in him, we lose nothing, but if there is a God and we don't we lose everything.

if there is no god, and we believe in him, we lose a big amount of thought into the rest of the world, like scientific reasearch and philosophy.

As far as God goes, there is definately a God. Scientist at the Central European Reaseach Center(CERN), have proven that it is possible for a Universe to be created from nothing but pure energy, which looks like white light, and is known as photon. So basically assuming that God is made of photon he could create a universe by simply clapping his hands together. And if we look at the Bible, and people accounts of near death experiences we would see that God is desribes as bright white Light. Just conicidence maybe, but to say there was no higher being would be naive.
Of course, judging by those circumstances alone, it would also be naive to claim that there was definately a higher being, using only that evidence.
Think of this:

If there is no God, and we believe in him, we lose nothing, but if there is a God and we don't we lose everything.
Ah, Pascal's wager.

Well, first off, how do we know what to believe in? There are hundreds of religions, and most of them say if you believe in one of the others, you get cast into some horendous pit of torture. Even within Christianity alone there are many sects claiming the others are damned. How do you choose?

Next, how do you know that your idea of a God is correct? How do we know he doesn't cast people into Hell at random? How do we know he won't damn the believers for the sheer hell of it? Your idea presupposes the God of the Bible being the one in question.

I believe that God created walruses to watch over all over lifeforms on earth. and there are aliens but walruses watch over them as well. :)


But seriously i believe there is a God and i believe there are other life forms out there. not neccisarily little green dudes. but some type of self-aware kind of species out there.

I live in Calgary, Alberta.

There is a God, and He loves you all.

There are no aliens, if there were God would have told us.

Micro-evolution exists, that is small changes in a species, but macro-evolution (the coming into being of new species through does not.

I believe that God created walruses to watch over all over lifeforms on earth. and there are aliens but walruses watch over them as well. :)


What's funny is that as a tenet of faith, it bears scrutiny. :)

In response to the questions:

Yes, I believe there is a God who loves everyone.

As to aliens I can't say either way but it'd be cool if there were.

I believe evolution was part of God's way of creating the universe so yes I do believe it exists.

In reply to previous posts. As a Christian I don't believe God sends anybody to hell, it is a natural result of people's decision in life not to believe in Him. I don't think that hell is all flames and stuff like that - I just think that it's separation from God which to me is much worse. I also don't think that you can talk about heaven or hell in earthly terms. Heaven isn't pleasure and joy on earthly terms it's infinitely and exponentially better and hell isn't torture like being poked with pitch forks it is spiritual death.

Anyway - long explanation over - I'm from Leicester UK.

As for aliens. If the universe is truly as infinite as we believe, it would be arrogant to assume we are the only sentient life forms on it.

There universe is not infinite. Check it up in any good physics book.

I think there is big contradiction about a God as Christians believe in.
First: how can God be good and almighty although there definety is sorrow and pain?
Second: Don't Christian always say we cannot understand God? Why then do they dare to say he is good and almighty?

I think there is big contradiction about a God as Christians believe in.
First: how can God be good and almighty although there definety is sorrow and pain?
Second: Don't Christian always say we cannot understand God? Why then do they dare to say he is good and almighty?

First: There is no reason he can't be good and almighty because of sorrow and pain. Why would he intercede to make the world perfect? Who knows his plan?

Second: We cannot understand the ways or the motivations or the plans of God. That doesn't mean we cannot believe him to be good and almighty.

I think there is big contradiction about a God as Christians believe in.
First: how can God be good and almighty although there definety is sorrow and pain?
Second: Don't Christian always say we cannot understand God? Why then do they dare to say he is good and almighty?

I suppose to answer this (as a Christian) if you don't mind I would say that although God is good and almighty there is sorrow and pain because He allows us to do what we want and that often includes hurting other people in wars etc.

I think we dare to say that God is good and almighty because we understand that those are tenets of his character. However the extent of his goodness and power is beyond our understanding. There are also other parts of His character that are beyond understanding but if every part of Him was beyond understanding then we would have no basis for belief/relationship.

Please feel free to attack this or ask anymore questions if I've contradicted myself.

I believe in God. To me, logically, I can't NOT believe in God. The universe had to have formed somehow. Energy can't be created or destroyed physically, so how did all the matter that created the universe come about? Simply: by a metaphysical agent. How did all the laws of physics arise? They can't have happened naturally. An outside force MUST have created the universe. It may have used the big bang, may have used evolution, who knows.

After that, it's really a matter of faith. I believe in the Christian God, but I'm not going to go into detail.

There is only one God and his name.... is BAL-GORA!!!

http://theturkishzoo.tripod.com

lol, I found that site one day, man it's fucked!

Micro-evolution exists, that is small changes in a species, but macro-evolution (the coming into being of new species through does not.

So humans were alive when the atmosphere was full of carbon dioxide and methane?

Oh yeah, myself in response to the first post, I belive there is no God- that I do not know at all but believe with all my heart, I believe that there is evolution due to outstanding evidence, and I believe there are aliens, through my reasoning, although I am least sure about that one.

I suppose to answer this (as a Christian) if you don't mind I would say that although God is good and almighty there is sorrow and pain because He allows us to do what we want and that often includes hurting other people in wars etc.

So why does He want us to decide ourselves if this necessarily leads to pain and sorrow?
We are limited in what we can do in some cases (e.g. we cannot kill everyone with a simple glaze or something like that) so we could as well be unable to harm anyone, but we are not. God (if He exists) gave us the possibility to harm.

Define "god"

Of course there are aliens. One of them does my garden.

Evolution certainly seems likely...

Define "god"

Of course there are aliens. One of them does my garden.

Evolution certainly seems likely...

*dirty mind engages* When you say the alien 'does' your garden...

Second: We cannot understand the ways or the motivations or the plans of God. That doesn't mean we cannot believe him to be good and almighty.

You can believe Him to be good and almighty, but if He exists, His idea of good is likely to be very different to yours, so He will not behave in a way you would define as being perfectly good.

There is only the ANTIHIPPI :D

You can believe Him to be good and almighty, but if He exists, His idea of good is likely to be very different to yours, so He will not behave in a way you would define as being perfectly good.

So then you cannot say he is "good". You could only say he is "something I want to call good, but which does not really fit my definition of good".

There is definitely God.

Think of this:

If there is no God, and we believe in him, we lose nothing, but if there is a God and we don't we lose everything.

That's called Pascal's Gambler's Argument, and I don't think God would be too chuffed if you only believed in Him for the payoff of Heaven and the threat of Hell anyway.

Anyway, my views:

God? No.

Aliens? Duh (there was a guy back on page five who did some demonstrative maths on this), but they're not travelling hundreds of light years just to wind up farmers on lonely Alabama roads. Even if they do have teenagers.

Evolution? Probably. Occam's Razor (the simplest explanation is usually right). Which is simpler, trial and error or a God who conveniently ignores the laws of physics?

And another point; evolution by means of natural selection and God are irreconcilable. Because natural selection involves the deaths of many innocent animals to produce anything, its unkind for God to do things that way when He is also capable of doing the whole thing in an instant. With an omnibenevolent (all-loving) God, the only way He can create our planet is as it is now. So for God to 'control' evolution, He must cause the deaths of all these creatures, and we've already seen He can't.

In other words, you can't be a Christian and support evolution. It's Darwin or Genesis, to put it simply. (And Genesis is in fact a Hebrew poem, and is INTENDED to be figurative)

That's called Pascal's Gambler's Argument, and I don't think God would be too chuffed if you only believed in Him for the payoff of Heaven and the threat of Hell anyway.

Anyway, my views:

God? No.

Aliens? Duh (there was a guy back on page five who did some demonstrative maths on this), but they're not travelling hundreds of light years just to wind up farmers on lonely Alabama roads. Even if they do have teenagers.

Evolution? Probably. Occam's Razor (the simplest explanation is usually right). Which is simpler, trial and error or a God who conveniently ignores the laws of physics?

And another point; evolution by means of natural selection and God are irreconcilable. Because natural selection involves the deaths of many innocent animals to produce anything, its unkind for God to do things that way when He is also capable of doing the whole thing in an instant. With an omnibenevolent (all-loving) God, the only way He can create our planet is as it is now. So for God to 'control' evolution, He must cause the deaths of all these creatures, and we've already seen He can't.

In other words, you can't be a Christian and support evolution. It's Darwin or Genesis, to put it simply. (And Genesis is in fact a Hebrew poem, and is INTENDED to be figurative)

I don't believe in evolution, and I don't think Genesis is 100% correct.

God: Maybe, maybe not. I dont care.
Aliens: See above.
Evolution: Seems like a pretty good explanation, but not my field of expertise. Ultimately, i dont care.
Seems like i aint interested in the big questions in life, eh? ;)
I am from Cologne, Germany.

In other words, you can't be a Christian and support evolution. It's Darwin or Genesis, to put it simply. (And Genesis is in fact a Hebrew poem, and is INTENDED to be figurative)
There is a denomination, you may have heard of it, they call themselves roman-catholics, who believe that Genesis is figurative and evolution the way God works.

So why does He want us to decide ourselves if this necessarily leads to pain and sorrow?
We are limited in what we can do in some cases (e.g. we cannot kill everyone with a simple glaze or something like that) so we could as well be unable to harm anyone, but we are not. God (if He exists) gave us the possibility to harm.

I think He wants to give us the choice about whether to believe in/have a relationship with Him or not because any relationship in which you are forced is not a relationship of love that I think God wants with us.

If God is the source of everything good then necessarily choosing not to believe in Him will lead to pain and sorrow because these things are not good. (Distancing myself from the arguments about whether Genesis is strictly literal or not) when the first humans chose to disobey God this allowed in pain and sorrow because they separated themsleves from God by choosing to disobey Him.

Anyway guys,
Better go - it's getting quite late here in the UK. Good thread though - I like hearing views that contradict my own - it broadens my mind.

*dirty mind engages* When you say the alien 'does' your garden...

*idly wishes his name was "garden"*

I don't believe that the human mind is capable of completely comprehending what God truly is, does and so on. I do believe that science, specifically Quantam Physics will one day prove the existance of a multi dimensional energy force that is responsible for binding ..or keeping atoms in place, thus forming what we see as the universe, our planet..everything. That force or energy is what I call God. I refuse to call call God him or her..God does not have genitals. God is intelligent...but not the way in which we interprit intelligence... God does not have a brain. God may be relevent even on a personal level because like god..people regulate energy. God is an energy force and the officer of all energy throughout the universe. Thats about the best I can put it. Read up on why scientists can't explain what holds atoms together...what keeps us from falling apart.

Aliens..sure.
Evolution....of course
Organized religion..."fear is the mind killer"

DENVER

There is no god, just various manners of accepted and unaccepted religious cults. I doubt there are aliens. Evolution? Why the hell does it matter anyway. Live today, quit obsessing over hypotheticals.

Aliens ... YEEAH!

Evolution ... NAAH!

Organized Religion ... ISLAM!

Please Read This Book (http://www.dhm.de/lemo/objekte/pict/zarathus/200.jpg)

Then we can talk about the concept of god. :)

I think god does not exist (it never does anything so it doesn’t have the right to exist) and alien's they have never said hello or anything so I don't bother myself with pondering if they do (if they do exist they would be enemy’s what with abducting people and killing cows) as you can see my philosophy is if it doesn’t help get rid of it.

this does seem like flamming but these are just what I think!

I live in east anglia England

Please Read This Book

I prefer Antichrist to Thus Spake, but whatever, it's all good.

Please Read This Book (http://www.dhm.de/lemo/objekte/pict/zarathus/200.jpg)

Then we can talk about the concept of god. :)

:confused:

I've always taken a rational approach to religon, which leads me to believe that there might be a "God" or even "Gods", but I can't prove it so I can't really hold any belief.

However, aliens are different, since their existence can be calculated solely by either the Drake Equation or be confirmed by the sheer size of the universe. Reading Carl Sagan also helped in this regard.

I prefer Antichrist to Thus Spake, but whatever, it's all good.
The nice thing about Thus Spake Zarathustra (and Beyond Good and Evil, which is also good) is that they really highlight the possiblity of there still being a god - but also the possibility of there not being a god (or several gods for that matter).

It really dives to the depths of existentiallism, and helps a person to ask themselves if there is really anything that they can 'beleive' in, without questioning it.

I know, I've read all three. I just didn't like Thus Spake because of the whole "Thus Spake" parts. Granted it was inventive, but it still wasn't my cup of tea. Beyond Good and Evil is, perhaps, his best work. I don't know why I forgot that one to begin with.

Nj.

I know, I've read all three. I just didn't like Thus Spake because of the whole "Thus Spake" parts. Granted it was inventive, but it still wasn't my cup of tea. Beyond Good and Evil is, perhaps, his best work. I don't know why I forgot that one to begin with.
The inventive nature of the book is what made it so accessible though, and why there is such a divide between philosophers old and new who argue its value towards both extremes. It was a ground breaking book, and the first to really touch on many of the ideals that later became associated with the definition of existentiallism. Of course that shows my opinion of the book, I truly love it - and can't get enough. Though, the 'Maxims and Interlude' section of Beyond Good and Evil really got me thinking on tangents. An excellent book.

To anyone who has not read these definitive works on existentiallism, and wants to discuss the concept of god; these books should be written down post haste!!

I would also suggest liberal doses of Kierkegaard and Sartre. :)

I usually stay away from threads like this because the beginning of wisdom is to acknowledge that we KNOW nothing. Nothing is for certain, so the premise in the question is faulty. Now, do I believe that there is a God? Sure I do. Can't prove it to anyone because everyone has varying concepts of who or what God is. I do think that if we try and treat others better than the way we want to be treated, and don't rain on anyone's parade, you can have a good life. I think you would be more useful to God than someone who believes he exists, yet treats people like dirt. This isn't exactly consistent with the bible, but God makes the final decision anyway, so at least have a good resume if you don't believe. That's my 9 cents(tax added).

A God could not exist according to the laws of physics. Just because a few billion people cling to the idea of such a thing existing doesnt make it right either. The human desire to have purpose and be watched over and have great direction and point to life over-rides cold logical and science anyway.
It all comes down to what people would rather belive, it's easier to stomach and understand the concept of the existance of a creator God, and indeed there's not a 6yo who couldnt understand biblical creation...
But, you must remember life isn't as simple as you may belive.

Aliens, well, perhaps. But given the odds of contact they may as well not exist. That or we are the first life forms to evolve in the galaxy (kind of answers the next question too...)

But I think it's just narrowminded to assume that evolution does not exist because it is written in a religious textbook that the earth was created in 6 days.
Religious text books and scriptures were never intended to be used as scientific journals were they? So why should people be so blind to follow them that way, without questioning how and what everything is, and pushing for further understanding. We would be naught but worthless sheep. Without an independant question or indepedant judgement.

As einstien said:
"Without science, religion is blind.
Without religion, science is lame."

Plus nothing makes sense in biology if you don't apply natural selection and evolution.

("fear is the mind killer" Haha! Another person who's read the Dune books? ;))

You can believe Him to be good and almighty, but if He exists, His idea of good is likely to be very different to yours, so He will not behave in a way you would define as being perfectly good.

Right. Ergo:
"We cannot understand the ways or the motivations or the plans of God. That doesn't mean we cannot believe him to be good and almighty."

:D

Thats pretty deep man, but i belive without a doubt that there is a God (only one). I dont belive in evolution because i didnt come from a monkey you can all belive that but i didnt.
Of course, you were fully cognizant at your conception and everytime on, just like when you'd soil yourself with that little amused smile on your face, or when you'd spit up your mom's milk all over your cute little pudgy face and the whole time you were being one full diaper away from a rash, "man, i'm sure glad i didn't come from a monkey. I got all my ducks in a row already."
And then you presumably figured out how to dress yourself and work on syntax and maybe with or without some help you figured out how to use your interface to leave this message ... and in so being a little augment here and there and surely enough, you changed. :rolleyes:

At the last election, I put down 'Deity' as my occupation on the voting paper, and it was accepted. Which means, as far as I know, I'm the only person who is a State-recognised Deity.
Right on!!
So, if you aren't doing anything on Thursday, my neighbor is complaining that her daughter needs some focus ... maybe you could come down in the form of a shower and take part in one of those old-school pantheistic intervention scenarios and she can really get her life in order! Ole`!
Please? I could sacrifice something for you ... but i won't specify what here.
;)

*looks in mirror, touches himself*

Yup, I exist.
Boy, howdy! I exist A LOT, and how!

:fluffle:

I think there is big contradiction about a God as Christians believe in.
First: how can God be good and almighty although there definety is sorrow and pain?
Second: Don't Christian always say we cannot understand God? Why then do they dare to say he is good and almighty?
It also says pretty specifically that god shall confound the wise.
So i guess that means that only the idiots and lowbrows really understand god (nature abhors a vacuum?) but if they didn't i imagine they wouldn't know that they didn't, and i would also have to suppose that many of them say they do in a compensatory fashion. Et cetera, ad nauseum.
I might reference you to Heikoku's "Come n'get me, pseudo-christians" thread, in the archives. It's big but quite expansive on your first point, as people's opinions go.

First: There is no reason he can't be good and almighty because of sorrow and pain. Why would he intercede to make the world perfect? Who knows his plan?

Second: We cannot understand the ways or the motivations or the plans of God. That doesn't mean we cannot believe him to be good and almighty.
Good of you to point out an excellent example of the difference between "understanding" and "believing".

*dirty mind engages* When you say the alien 'does' your garden...
It sure LOOKS like the aliens' legs are covered with "pollen" ....
Hmmm just thinking this inspires me to sneeze. And itch.

There is definitely God.
...yeah, what about the OTHER TWO POINTS?
Or is that "yes" for all?

Can we prove that anythign here really exsists? I mean hypothetically, this entire "real world" business could just be a big sham set up by your consciousness.

How can we validate anything without multiple perspecitves, and, if we can't (which is indeed the case) how does one get a second perspective when everythign is seen through one's own eyes?

Right on!!
So, if you aren't doing anything on Thursday, my neighbor is complaining that her daughter needs some focus ... maybe you could come down in the form of a shower and take part in one of those old-school pantheistic intervention scenarios and she can really get her life in order! Ole`!
Please? I could sacrifice something for you ... but i won't specify what here.
;)
Oh, feel free to sacrifice either Belgian chocolate, or your first-born. Whichever's easiest for you.

But sorry, I don't do requests.

No, I'm God. Who do you think is screwing up your life every day?
Now that's a trick question. I know it's me that's been screwing up my life. As of course it would be, me being God and all.

Good of you to point out an excellent example of the difference between "understanding" and "believing".

Thanks. After all, belief requires faith. Understanding requires knowledge. Two very different things. :)

Think of this:

If there is no God, and we believe in him, we lose nothing, but if there is a God and we don't we lose everything.
Well, if there is no God, we'd gain several hours a Sunday not having to go to Church. The ones of you who do anyway. Also no more are the problems of being annoyed early Saturday Morning by bloody Mormons or Jovvies.