NationStates Jolt Archive

For example will christains begin to take stuff like this literally from the bible?



If your brother, the son of your father or of your mother, or your son or daughter, or the spouse whom you embrace, or your most intimate friend, tries to secretly seduce you, saying, “Let us go and serve other gods,” unknown to you or your ancestors before you, gods of the peoples surrounding you, whether near you or far away, anywhere throughout the world, you must not consent, you must not listen to him; you must show him no pity, you must not spare him or conceal his guilt. No, you must kill him, your hand must strike the first blow in putting him to death and the hands of the rest of the people following. You must stone him to death, since he has tried to divert you from Yahweh your God. . . .(Deuteronomy 13:7–11)


How far are we from this happening? Is it hard to believe that extremist christains will begin to surface? Give your thoughts...

No, becasue the Bible makes it clear that old covenenat laws are past and that Jesus and the new covenant is present.

I have a better question. Will synnics ever learn the diffrence between the two coveants and stop thinking they have found something revolutionary when they discover that there are biblical endorcemts of capital punishment, despite the fact their in the old testemet, old covenent.

Somehow, I really don't think they will... It sounds rather absurd to me.

When it comes to religion anything is possible. Just because we live in a so called civilized world. Doesn't mean we behave civilized with our religion. Points to news for dozens of examples.

No, becasue the Bible makes it clear that old covenenat laws are past and that Jesus and the new covenant is present.

I have a better question. Will synnics ever learn the diffrence between the two coveants and stop thinking they have found something revolutionary when they discover that there are biblical endorcemts of capital punishment, despite the fact their in the old testemet, old covenent.
What about homosexuality? Still no go?

What about homosexuality? Still no go?

Condemned in both new and old testements

Condemned in both new and old testements
Show in the new?

Only if the scariest ones have their way. Most christians that I know well are more reasonable. Many are liberals, some aren't. But of course, I don't really associate with the nuts much.

There arent enough extremist christians to make a serious difference in any society in the world, europe is openly hostile to all fundementalism and the culture of the US is a function of companies which stand to make more money in a liberal secular society than they do in a theocracy.

No danger therefore whatsoever.

Show in the new?

In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men

Romans 1:27

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

I Corinthians 6: 9-10

Also Jesus mentions "sexual immorality" on many occations as being sinful. This in the original language means, amoungst other things, homosexuality.

SO the old testament will never been read or taken literally in any way?

sooner or later some nutcase will start up his own tiny denomination based on leviticus. i doubt it will go very far but charismatic leaders can attract followers for a while.

SO the old testament will never been read or taken literally in any way?

No. The Bible itself makes it very clear that the Mosiac laws are not applied in their entirity after Jeusus death. Anyone enforcing them is rather strange in that respect.

In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men

Romans 1:27

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

I Corinthians 6: 9-10

Also Jesus mentions "sexual immorality" on many occations as being sinful. This in the original language means, amoungst other things, homosexuality.

So Jesus never actually says Homosexuality is a sin. Thanks.

The Old is taken literally in that, Christians believe that it's history, like Adam & Eve and Moses and Abraham and Esther and all that, and that those laws in the old covenant existed.
But seeing as Jesus fulfilled the old covenant, by providing a different way to deal with sin (that wasn't based on what humans did, seeing as humans make mistakes a lot), a lot of the old laws weren't needed anymore.
But we still get guidelines in the new testament that reveal the character of God and what he'd like us to be like. And he still doesn't like us to steal, lie, be adulterous, or homosexual, or treat other people badly, no matter what they are like.

If some really angry rednecks of in Idaho have their way (The Militia Movement), then maybe. But the chances of them making any headway are slim to none.

Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson? No one takes them seriously so they're hopes and dreams for a "Christian" America are also nil.

Mainstream? Most Christians are reasonable enough that they won't revert to the dark ages of Inquisition, Witch Hunts and Excomunication.

That...And I wouldn't let them so long as my lungs drew breath...

dont try to write your own bible by scrutinizing jesus' teachings. What has the United states come to which was founded on CHRISTIAN BELIEFS been belittled to diminishing christianity for secular religion and paganism.
Yes the old covenant has passed but there are teaching there about steward ship and tithing in the church that jesus doesnt go over as much because it is given. So i recommend to everyone that reads this to go to church and listen and read the word and stop scrutinizing the christians for following the god that can lead us out of any thing Yeah and homosexuality is an abomination in the site of god. If you sit here and tell me you are a christian and are a flamming homosexual you might as well be burning in hell because you are a hypocrite. Go to church listen and read the word and give your heart to the lord I dont know how much i can stress this.

So Jesus never actually says Homosexuality is a sin. Thanks.

Erm, did you not read what I said?

Also Jesus mentions "sexual immorality" on many occations as being sinful. This in the original language means, amoungst other things, homosexuality.

Won't it be fun when all the old religions (I'm including all of them) are discredited and people start making decisions for themselves for once?

It is better to die on your feet than live on your knees. I say this should apply to religion as well.

I wouldn't be too sure about a small number of extremists not making a difference.

Look at groups like Al Quaida (spelling?). They are not the majority by any means, and yet people come to stereotype Muslims by them. In the same way, it tends to be the zealots that create the stereotype for any race or religion.

dont try to write your own bible by scrutinizing jesus' teachings. What has the United states come to which was founded on CHRISTIAN BELIEFS been belittled to diminishing christianity for secular religion and paganism.
Yes the old covenant has passed but there are teaching there about steward ship and tithing in the church that jesus doesnt go over as much because it is given. So i recommend to everyone that reads this to go to church and listen and read the word and stop scrutinizing the christians for following the god that can lead us out of any thing Yeah and homosexuality is an abomination in the site of god. If you sit here and tell me you are a christian and are a flamming homosexual you might as well be burning in hell because you are a hypocrite. Go to church listen and read the word and give your heart to the lord I dont know how much i can stress this.

Hey, dingleberry, that arguement has been discredited a thousand times. The country was not founded on christianity.

Hey, dingleberry, that arguement has been discredited a thousand times. The country was not founded on christianity.

I disagree, gee lets become modern

dont try to write your own bible by scrutinizing jesus' teachings. What has the United states come to which was founded on CHRISTIAN BELIEFS been belittled to diminishing christianity for secular religion and paganism.
Yes the old covenant has passed but there are teaching there about steward ship and tithing in the church that jesus doesnt go over as much because it is given. So i recommend to everyone that reads this to go to church and listen and read the word and stop scrutinizing the christians for following the god that can lead us out of any thing Yeah and homosexuality is an abomination in the site of god. If you sit here and tell me you are a christian and are a flamming homosexual you might as well be burning in hell because you are a hypocrite. Go to church listen and read the word and give your heart to the lord I dont know how much i can stress this.
To say it was founded on Christian beliefs is just retarded. Even if it where, do you honestly think that we've succeeded? Fine, you want to be all cloistered and ignorant and burn homosexuals at the stake, you think THAT is being Christians?

You're "ignoring the log in your eye," a "Christian nation" wouldn't militarize the border patrol (welcome the stranger.) It wouldn't cut social welfare programs (feed the hungry.) It wouldn't fry people in the chair (visit the imprisoned.) Why not be consistent, you frikin Jesuslanders. So what if homosexuals have the same rights as you? If you're really such amazing, bible-thumping, I'm-saved-and-you're-not Christians, you'd ignore that and instead HELP those that need help. ;)

(And don't tell me you want to help gays; you just want to subjugate them.)

I don't know...don't you guys have that phrase 'In God we trust'? Like, when I studied politics and law stuff, a lot of it is built upon biblical standards. Don't steal, don't give false testimony, don't murder...

It's just the usual problem..perfect ideal, imperfect people who (try to) implement it...and people get confused and then..'aren't we supposed to kick homosexuals in the shins?'...'doesn't the bible say to be mean to people who have abortions'? They have made the mistake of listening to persuasive people who mix God's ideas with their own, instead of basing their actions right on the bible.

People might not have so much of a problem with Christians if we didn't taint God's laws with our own confusions..:p

Eh, people might not have so much problems with Christians if there weren't any... how's that sound (also no religions)? Everyone having no religious barriers, so we can all agree and not argue over whether certain texts are history or mythology, and then we wouldn't argue on whether those mythological texts should be followed, and then people wouldn't disagree using disputable sources and superstitious ideas. i dunno where I'm going, but it sounds good to me...

"Will christains revert back to the dark ages?"

your question seems to imply that Christians left the Dark Ages at some point. i'm puzzled.

;) j/k

In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men

Romans 1:27

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

I Corinthians 6: 9-10

Also Jesus mentions "sexual immorality" on many occations as being sinful. This in the original language means, amoungst other things, homosexuality.
These passages are subject to interpretation, just like most of the bible. I can easily read "inflamed with lust for one another" as the actual sin of the first passage (lust), "homosexual offenders" as the sin of rape, and "sexual immorality" as an analogue to violating the Safe, Sane and Consentual guidelines of modern human sexuality (anything from rape to "cheating").
dont try to write your own bible by scrutinizing jesus' teachings. What has the United states come to which was founded on CHRISTIAN BELIEFS been belittled to diminishing christianity for secular religion and paganism.
Yes the old covenant has passed but there are teaching there about steward ship and tithing in the church that jesus doesnt go over as much because it is given. So i recommend to everyone that reads this to go to church and listen and read the word and stop scrutinizing the christians for following the god that can lead us out of any thing Yeah and homosexuality is an abomination in the site of god. If you sit here and tell me you are a christian and are a flamming homosexual you might as well be burning in hell because you are a hypocrite. Go to church listen and read the word and give your heart to the lord I dont know how much i can stress this.
Actually, the United States was founded on the idea of religious freedom. That's where we got the concept of separation of church and state. The founding fathers wanted people to be free from religious persecution. They recognized that no religion can be forced on someone who doesn't believe in it. So, even if one religion is right and all the others are wrong, it would do no good to adopt a national religion, or to legislate religious ideals.

The reason so many Christian ideas show up in our laws, our constitution, etc. is not because the people who created our nation wanted us to be Christian. It's because a lot of their concepts of how people should treat each other came from the Christian teachings they were exposed to when they were young.

To say it was founded on Christian beliefs is just retarded. Even if it where, do you honestly think that we've succeeded? Fine, you want to be all cloistered and ignorant and burn homosexuals at the stake, you think THAT is being Christians?

You're "ignoring the log in your eye," a "Christian nation" wouldn't militarize the border patrol (welcome the stranger.) It wouldn't cut social welfare programs (feed the hungry.) It wouldn't fry people in the chair (visit the imprisoned.) Why not be consistent, you frikin Jesuslanders. So what if homosexuals have the same rights as you? If you're really such amazing, bible-thumping, I'm-saved-and-you're-not Christians, you'd ignore that and instead HELP those that need help. ;)

(And don't tell me you want to help gays; you just want to subjugate them.)

it's amazing how an atheistic-like person tries to destroy a religion without learning or studying it...

first of all, ignore anything that anyone has said about "burning homosexuals."
sure, the practice of sexual immorality is banned by christian practice. sure, it mentions that sexual immorality is a sin. that doesnt mean that any christian should go and burn all of the homosexuals just for being that way. christians dont burn people for sex out of marriage, burn people for killing someone else, burn people for committing adultery, etc. we accept it, and we try to change it. Church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum of saints.

second... your faulty claim of our nations' religious beginnings. most of the founding fathers (those that wrote and signed: dec. of independence, articles of confederacy, constitution) were christians. the only reason why we did all of the bad things that a "Christian nation" wouldn't do is because we arent a christian nation anymore. we've nearly outlawed all of the christian symbols in public places (including the LA city seal). we outlawed christian idols and symbols in new jersey schools while allowing muslim, jewish, and other idols and symbols. face it. we aren't a christian nation anymore. we're dominated by scared politicians and lobbyists in congress that are afraid of facing outright hatred by small ahtheistic (or such) groups.

thirdly... "under god" was added to the pledge in the 50s (i believe) by an ATHEIST to seperate the united states from the communist soviet union and their "pledge of alliegance"

and, finally, to discredit your "log in your eye" argument... that analogy basically means that you should not worry of other people's problems, but of your own. not only do you take it and try to turn it on the bible and christians, you go against it yourself!!! you shouldn't talk smack about the bible or christians themselves when, evidently, you neither study the bible (or the basis of christian religion), nor go to church a christian.

btw, "christian" means "christ-like"...

In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men

Romans 1:27

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Actually, homosexuals in this instance was originally effeminate in the greek. Now, effeminate in ancient greek did not mean gay, it meant one who does not contribute to society. It has nothing to do with homosexuals.

I Corinthians 6: 9-10

Also Jesus mentions "sexual immorality" on many occations as being sinful. This in the original language means, amoungst other things, homosexuality.
Considering there wasn't even a term for homosexuality until rather recently...:roll:

Erm, did you not read what I said?
Yes, I did. It says nothing specifically about Homosexuality.

Erm, did you not read what I said?
Can you show a passage that is not up to interpretation or suspicious translation in the least? Or that say, wasn't written by Paul?

Can you show a passage that is not up to interpretation or suspicious translation in the least? Or that say, wasn't written by Paul?
of course not. you know as well as i do that there is not one single passage in the Bible which directly and clearly condemns homosexuality. Of course, Neo hasn't read the actual Bible, he just reads bits and pieces from corrupted modern translations, so let's see how long we can keep the gerbil wheel spinning :).

of course not. you know as well as i do that there is not one single passage in the Bible which directly and clearly condemns homosexuality. Of course, Neo hasn't read the actual Bible, he just reads bits and pieces from corrupted modern translations, so let's see how long we can keep the gerbil wheel spinning :).

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV): "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters, nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

Genesis 13:13: "But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly." (their sins were that of sodomy)


note the presence of "homosexual offenders" in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10.....
so there

of course not. you know as well as i do that there is not one single passage in the Bible which directly and clearly condemns homosexuality. Of course, Neo hasn't read the actual Bible, he just reads bits and pieces from corrupted modern translations, so let's see how long we can keep the gerbil wheel spinning :).
Was he the kid who admitted to never havign read the entire bible? Or was that another homophobe who was using the bible as justification for his hatred?

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV): "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters, nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

Genesis 13:13: "But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly." (their sins were that of sodomy)


note the presence of "homosexual offenders" in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10.....
so there
Note my earlier mention of improper translation of this passage.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV): "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters, nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

Genesis 13:13: "But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly." (their sins were that of sodomy)


note the presence of "homosexual offenders" in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10.....
so there
newsflash for the terminally slow:

according to accredited Biblical scholars and translators of the original biblical texts, the word "HOMOSEXUAL" is NOT an accepted translation of any word found in the Bible. any passage you find in your Bible that has the word "homosexual" in it has been mistranslated.

Note my earlier mention of improper translation of this passage.

note that "sexually immoral" means those that don't confine to the laws that God laid down for marriage.

those included marriage between a man and a woman. not a man and a man. or a woman and a woman. no matter how much society tries to okay it.

note that "sexually immoral" means those that don't confine to the laws that God laid down for marriage.

those included marriage between a man and a woman. not a man and a man. or a woman and a woman. no matter how much society tries to okay it.
unfortunately for you, the Bible isn't very clear on that subject. in fact, some of the people who hold degrees in What The Bible Means don't agree with your perspective...no offense, but i believe the theology PhD who used to be my minor advisor a hell of a lot more than i trust some quacks over the internet. and he was a Catholic!

I disagree, gee lets become modern


Dont you mean postmodern ;)

I'm a devout Catholic. I celebrate Lent, and I stick to it, even when someone waves a Bacon Cheeseburger in my face. But of all the teachings of the Church I could never agree to banning same sex marriage. No matter how much my Pope says that its bad.

it's amazing how an atheistic-like person tries to destroy a religion without learning or studying it...

first of all, ignore anything that anyone has said about "burning homosexuals."
sure, the practice of sexual immorality is banned by christian practice. sure, it mentions that sexual immorality is a sin. that doesnt mean that any christian should go and burn all of the homosexuals just for being that way. christians dont burn people for sex out of marriage, burn people for killing someone else, burn people for committing adultery, etc. we accept it, and we try to change it. Church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum of saints.

second... your faulty claim of our nations' religious beginnings. most of the founding fathers (those that wrote and signed: dec. of independence, articles of confederacy, constitution) were christians. the only reason why we did all of the bad things that a "Christian nation" wouldn't do is because we arent a christian nation anymore. we've nearly outlawed all of the christian symbols in public places (including the LA city seal). we outlawed christian idols and symbols in new jersey schools while allowing muslim, jewish, and other idols and symbols. face it. we aren't a christian nation anymore. we're dominated by scared politicians and lobbyists in congress that are afraid of facing outright hatred by small ahtheistic (or such) groups.

thirdly... "under god" was added to the pledge in the 50s (i believe) by an ATHEIST to seperate the united states from the communist soviet union and their "pledge of alliegance"

and, finally, to discredit your "log in your eye" argument... that analogy basically means that you should not worry of other people's problems, but of your own. not only do you take it and try to turn it on the bible and christians, you go against it yourself!!! you shouldn't talk smack about the bible or christians themselves when, evidently, you neither study the bible (or the basis of christian religion), nor go to church a christian.

btw, "christian" means "christ-like"...

WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK OF YOURSELF? BY ONE POST YOU THINK YOU CAN DETERMINE MY EDUCATION AND UPBRINGING?!

I was raised in a Vatican I family!!! Granted, perhaps that is what got me to break loose, but telling me that I never studied the bible is utter B*LLSHIT! I simply learned to think on my own, and do what I do for the sake of humanity, civilization and progress, and NOT because I fear an angry God will send me to hell!

Oh, just to let you know, simply because the founding fathers were Christian does not mean that they advocated a Christian nation! They were against Caesaropapism and EVERY person who is learned on the matter knows that!

Now, I'm not going to lower myself to your level of petty personal attacks (oops, perhaps I just did, O well!) But (obviously paraphrased) 'noticing the thorn in your brother's eye while ignoring the log in yours' does have a connotation of double standards.

Now please, in the future, do not attack people, assuming their stances on everything when all you've heard is one post. It makes you look stupid, which I'm sure you're not.

I thought this thread had nothing to do with homosexuality?

I thought this thread had nothing to do with homosexuality?
you must not be around General very much...these days EVERYTHING has to do with homosexuality.

Romans 1:27

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.


...

Just a curious aside, why is there mention of male, but not female prostitutes?

...

Just a curious aside, why is there mention of male, but not female prostitutes?
the God of the Bible is a big fan of female prostitution, particularly when it involves the permanent sale of young girls to "husbands" who will keep them constantly impregnated.

THE. US. WAS. NOT. A. CHRISTIAN. NATION.


In fact, both Madison, who wrote most of the Constitution, and Jefferson, who wrote the Declaration of Independence, were Deists, along with Washington, Adams, and Franklin. Deism is the belief in a god, but no particular one, and is not equivalent to Christianity.

Actually, homosexuals in this instance was originally effeminate in the greek. Now, effeminate in ancient greek did not mean gay, it meant one who does not contribute to society. It has nothing to do with homosexuals

Considering there wasn't even a term for homosexuality until rather recently...:roll.

http://robgagnon.net/articles/homozenitharticlerevised.pdf

Read this, it explains what your talking about.

Ok, from what I've read, most people here have a valid point in and of themselves.

My answer to the original question is this:
I do not believe that Christians, true Christians, will revert back to the "stone age." The problem with a lot of so-called, self-proclaimed "Christians" is that they don't take time to educate themselves before storming off on the proverbial moral "ji-had," for lack of a better term. As I have read from other relpies, a few others here have already made the point that modern translations of the Bible are not completely accurate. With this I agree. For one, The Bible was not originally written in Old English (King James), as I have heard from SO many people in the southern US (where I have lived since I was 8) who SWEAR it is the ONLY translation worth reading. Neither was it originally written completely in ancient Greek. Much of it was written in Aramaic before translated. The problem with all these different translations, especially from ancient dead languages, is that the actual meanings of different words have been lost or changed. Unless we find some way of travelling TO THAT TIME, we have no absolute way of knowing EXACTLY what the meaning was nor in what context to use it. I personally don't believe this, but for all we know, Jesus, his desciples, and all the prophets could have all been talking to aliens, saying it was the "word of God." The problem with all of this is that the "Good Book" was written not by God, but by Man. And Man is fallible.
I have Christian-based beliefs, but they are beliefs that I have questioned myself, and not gone on blindly believing just because someone dude standing in a pulpit told me I should believe them. On the other hand, I don't think Christianity is the one "true" religion. If you do your research, all religions worth their weight teach love and mutual respect. True Muslims included, even philosophies such as Bhuddism. They just have their own way of doing it.
Anyway, all I'm saying in the end, take it or leave it, with a grain of salt or straight, is that whether or not Jesus Christ is the "Messiah," (the Jews don't believe so) he still was an amazing human being and his teachings should be heard.

The stupidity of this thread is mind-boggling.

It's a good thing we have all of you Biblical scholars here to discern the semantics of each of these highly-nuanced quotes.

Or not.

the God of the Bible is a big fan of female prostitution, particularly when it involves the permanent sale of young girls to "husbands" who will keep them constantly impregnated.

Yes, that seems to be the impression i'm getting too.