NationStates Jolt Archive

... in a lesson next week, and I want to be able to respond, because it is a standpoint I strongly disagreewith, that abstinence should be taught INSTEAD of condoms, etc, rather than ALONGSIDE condoms.

So I was hoping you guys could offer me some arguments I could use as to why teaching abstinence only is bad.

This is going to turn into a thread about whether or not abstinence is good..

This is going to turn into a thread about whether or not abstinence is good..
What else can you expect?

In our school we take a program called RSVP, (I doesn't stand for anything it's just sounds good i guess) and they basically preach bible based abstinence and scare you out of sex. They say, condoms don't work, and other nonsense. Abstinence only education will lead to more STD's basically cuz 1) Kid's have sex anyway and 2) Even though most kids know how to use a condom they could use a adult to tell them.

Knock a few chicks up. That'll teach the school board a thing or two.

In our school we take a program called RSVP, (I doesn't stand for anything it's just sounds good i guess) and they basically preach bible based abstinence and scare you out of sex. They say, condoms don't work, and other nonsense. Abstinence only education will lead to more STD's basically cuz 1) Kid's have sex anyway and 2) Even though most kids know how to use a condom they could use a adult to tell them.
In French, RSVP (commonly used) means répondez s'il vous plaît.

Here's the deal. If you're in school you won't be able to accomplish a thing. If you still feel compelled to say something be prepared to visit the principal's office. I would suggest starting off logically with some statistics on why condoms work well and are a good form of birth control if you are goin to have sex. CDC website has stats you can use. Use some stats on the pill too. NOW HERE'S THE IMPORTANT PART: expect them to get angry, freak out, and possibly ignore you. This is where you start screaming about how they're a bunch of idiots trying to brainwash you. It helps to be drunk at this point. Continue screaming and add in new phrases from your favourite literature such as 2+2=5. If they try to escort you out of the room do NOT be afraid to use your body weight against them. Fall to the ground and start convulsing or kicking or something. Make them drag you. Then you will know you have won.

How about havong sex in front of your teacher?

Here's the deal. If you're in school you won't be able to accomplish a thing. If you still feel compelled to say something be prepared to visit the principal's office. I would suggest starting off logically with some statistics on why condoms work well and are a good form of birth control if you are goin to have sex. CDC website has stats you can use. Use some stats on the pill too. NOW HERE'S THE IMPORTANT PART: expect them to get angry, freak out, and possibly ignore you. This is where you start screaming about how they're a bunch of idiots trying to brainwash you. It helps to be drunk at this point. Continue screaming and add in new phrases from your favourite literature such as 2+2=5. If they try to escort you out of the room do NOT be afraid to use your body weight against them. Fall to the ground and start convulsing or kicking or something. Make them drag you. Then you will know you have won.

Sounds like a plan!

... in a lesson next week, and I want to be able to respond, because it is a standpoint I strongly disagreewith, that abstinence should be taught INSTEAD of condoms, etc, rather than ALONGSIDE condoms.

So I was hoping you guys could offer me some arguments I could use as to why teaching abstinence only is bad.

You could say that it isn't the school's job to tell you what to do, it's their job to tell you the facts and let you make an informed decision. Out of curiosity, which country is your school in, and is it private?

Pull out your dick, wank off into the lap of the girl in the seat next to yours, and come all over her lap.

Then say, "It's not like I had sex with her. I abstained from having sex with her. You just told us she can't get pregnant."

... in a lesson next week, and I want to be able to respond, because it is a standpoint I strongly disagreewith, that abstinence should be taught INSTEAD of condoms, etc, rather than ALONGSIDE condoms.

So I was hoping you guys could offer me some arguments I could use as to why teaching abstinence only is bad.
Remember: Fire solves everything.

Remember: Fire solves everything.

So does the fire alarm.

Here's the deal. If you're in school you won't be able to accomplish a thing. If you still feel compelled to say something be prepared to visit the principal's office. I would suggest starting off logically with some statistics on why condoms work well and are a good form of birth control if you are goin to have sex. CDC website has stats you can use. Use some stats on the pill too. NOW HERE'S THE IMPORTANT PART: expect them to get angry, freak out, and possibly ignore you. This is where you start screaming about how they're a bunch of idiots trying to brainwash you. It helps to be drunk at this point. Continue screaming and add in new phrases from your favourite literature such as 2+2=5. If they try to escort you out of the room do NOT be afraid to use your body weight against them. Fall to the ground and start convulsing or kicking or something. Make them drag you. Then you will know you have won.
Except for the last part, yeah. Come informed and be persistant. DO NOT rely on anything from your head or logic. You'd think logic would work, but you're a student and their a teacher....pffft. Print out the fact sheets, bring in the sources. Be persistant and precise.(sp) Do expect to get in trouble, then make a stink but not a spectacle-if you do the latter you're protest will be dismissed out of hand.

Be sure to include the increase in pregnancy and disease involved in their plan.

Either that or get a pack of condoms and enjoy all the fucking you'll get to do...

Remember: Fire solves everything.

A great philosophy to have in life!

I would suggest asking (and getting, perhaps, some other adults such as: your parents, and other reasonable folks to support you in this) that a representative from Planned Parenthood be allowed to come in and give a quick rundown on alternate methods of preventing pregnancy.

I know that certain churches, while they do encourage and teach "family planning" methods, will also compare them to medicinal and barrier methods as well.

Truly, though, I believe that it is really the job of the parent to educate their children about birth control, and barring that, any teen with any sense of independence/intelligence can get the information for him or herself by visiting www.plannedparenthood.org or by scheduling an appointment with his or her doctor. Preferably both.

I got sent to the principal's office for Saying my views on gay people once. but heres what you do. Before the lesson burn the lesson. that'll clear things up.

You could do what I did.
Ignore the class at school.
Ignore your parents.
Go to the library and look up what you need to know.

Pull out your dick, wank off into the lap of the girl in the seat next to yours, and come all over her lap.

Then say, "It's not like I had sex with her. I abstained from having sex with her. You just told us she can't get pregnant."
Knock that off.

Originally posted by C-anadia
I got sent to the principal's office for Saying my views on gay people once. but heres what you do. Before the lesson burn the lesson. that'll clear things up.

Burn it! Stick it in your pants and piss on it, that'll solve it. ;)

Pull out your dick, wank off into the lap of the girl in the seat next to yours, and come all over her lap.

Then say, "It's not like I had sex with her. I abstained from having sex with her. You just told us she can't get pregnant."
That's wrong.

Raise your hand and explain that a friend of yours has an unpleasant little problem. He's got a burning discharge and suppurating pustules on his johnson. Explain that it feels like he's got a red hot wire running through your urethra. Then say his urethra. This is all according to what your friend told you. Then scratch yer junk.

Viola! The teacher will be compelled to talk facts, because obviously abstinence-only has failed.

Originally posted by Jamil
That's wrong.

Funny, but wrong.

Raise your hand and explain that a friend of yours has an unpleasant little problem. He's got a burning discharge and suppurating pustules on his johnson. Explain that it feels like he's got a red hot wire running through your urethra. Then say his urethra. This is all according to what your friend told you. Then scratch yer junk.

Viola! The teacher will be compelled to talk facts, because obviously abstinence-only has failed.

You could also ask why your friend's girlfriend keeps gaining weight.

My suggestion is to ask questions at the aproperiate time. Ask questions that canot be answered with the standard abstinance-only propaganda. "Hypothetically, if I were going to perform cunilingus on a woman and abstenance were not an option, what would be the best way to prevent oraly transmitted STDs." Things like that.

Here's the deal. If you're in school you won't be able to accomplish a thing. If you still feel compelled to say something be prepared to visit the principal's office. I would suggest starting off logically with some statistics on why condoms work well and are a good form of birth control if you are goin to have sex. CDC website has stats you can use. Use some stats on the pill too.
Sounds good up to this point.

NOW HERE'S THE IMPORTANT PART: expect them to get angry, freak out, and possibly ignore you. This is where you start screaming about how they're a bunch of idiots trying to brainwash you. It helps to be drunk at this point. Continue screaming and add in new phrases from your favourite literature such as 2+2=5. If they try to escort you out of the room do NOT be afraid to use your body weight against them. Fall to the ground and start convulsing or kicking or something. Make them drag you. Then you will know you have won.
NOW HERE'S THE IMPORTANT PART: This is where you start listening to Cogitation. ( :p at Squirrel Nuts ) Remember that your teachers are authority figures, so they have to be respected. Nevertheless, you do have a contrary opinion, so be firm and confident, but respectful, in how you present yourself. "With all due respect, I disagree with the point-of-view you're presenting, and I disagree for the following reasons: ..."

Before the class, you may want to see if anyone else in your class agrees with you and takes your opinions seriously; it should be a friend whose body language, typical attire, and tone-of-voice don't suggest any degree of desperation to get laid. Don't give your teacher any unnecessary opportunity to dismiss you by ad hominem attack. If you're told to sit down, then you sit down and your friend stands up and attempts to continue the logical argument. "With all due respect, I think he/she is right. There is still the matter of...." Note that I said "logical argument"; do not misconstrue "argument" to mean any kind of fight.

Except for the last part, yeah. Come informed and be persistant. DO NOT rely on anything from your head or logic. You'd think logic would work.... <snip>
Agreed.

I would suggest asking (and getting, perhaps, some other adults such as: your parents, and other reasonable.... <snip>
Agreed.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."

So I was hoping you guys could offer me some arguments I could use as to why teaching abstinence only is bad.
Tell them that you don't want to make the sexual experience poor for both parties and then have a baby off one climax, so you need some safe 'practice' :D They can't disagree with that :p

EDIT: Hey Cog, did you dock some of my posts?

Show them this: http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1498328/20050321/index.jhtml?headlines=true

Or this: http://www.technicalvirgin.com/

You should ask the teacher if she ever had sex before marriage, that'll work. :D

*feels the need to take a shower after reading this thread*

a recent study came out showing that teens that pledge to abstain have a rate of STDs similar to those who dont take the pledge

put "abstinence stds" into the google news search and youll get plenty of results

Texas did this, and that didn't work. They have the largest number of teenage pregnancies and abortions.

You could also ask why your friend's girlfriend keeps gaining weight.

You could have a new friend every week, each with a textbook-perfect case of jock-dot or some exotic nether flora/fauna. You could be like a guest lecturer. One week your friend's got crabs, the next he got himself an anal fissure. Then his girl's got an ectopic pregnancy. Bad times for your friend, but at least the class might learn a thing or two.

My suggestion is to ask questions at the aproperiate time. Ask questions that canot be answered with the standard abstinance-only propaganda. "Hypothetically, if I were going to perform cunilingus on a woman and abstenance were not an option, what would be the best way to prevent oraly transmitted STDs." Things like that.
Nice idea, but it needs work. You need a different way to word that. Technically speaking, abstinence is always an option (unless you're thinking of rape). What we want to emphasize, here, is that abstinence is not the only viable option and the reasons why abstinence is not the only viable option.

My personal opinion: Abstinence is the best option. But, if you're going to play around, then you should at least know what the hell you're doing.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."

EDIT: Hey Cog, did you dock some of my posts?
No, I haven't. Further inquiries on this should be made in "Technical or "Moderation". If something happened to your postcount, then I don't know what happened.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

You could have a new friend every week, each with a textbook-perfect case of jock-dot or some exotic nether flora/fauna. You could be like a guest lecturer. One week your friend's got crabs, the next he got himself an anal fissure. Then his girl's got an ectopic pregnancy. Bad times for your friend, but at least the class might learn a thing or two.

Oh, like how that cold sore on your friend's lip is suddenly itching like hell on the tip of your....

Do what WL suggested.

Or, alternativerly, say that the other students are too weak and Godless to ever listen to the teachers, and that it would be prudent to promote other methods for their sake, and the sakes of their potential children, as these innocents do not deserve to suffer because of their parent's weakness. (Of course, this won't actually work because Christianity is quite happy with the concept of inherited guilt. =/)

I dunno. I think being calm, sensible, and having sources will all help you out. I don't know if you can win or not, but I damn well hope you try.

Oh, like how that cold sore on your friend's lip is suddenly itching like hell on the tip of your....

...

Knock that off.

... in a lesson next week, and I want to be able to respond, because it is a standpoint I strongly disagreewith, that abstinence should be taught INSTEAD of condoms, etc, rather than ALONGSIDE condoms.

So I was hoping you guys could offer me some arguments I could use as to why teaching abstinence only is bad.

Kudos on having the intelligence, guts, and knowledge to seek more sex education information!!

Although I think schools have an important role to play in sex education (but not by teaching abstinence only), I heartily endorce Katganistan's advice.

Here are a mix of sources providing sex education information, information about sexuality aimed at teens, supporting comprehensive sex education, and/or critiquing abstinence-only programs:
Tell Me The (Whole) Truth - School Supplies to Get Real Sex Education (by the Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund) (http://www.lambdalegal.org/cgi-bin/iowa/documents/record?record=1126)
Centers for Disease Control - Healthy Youth! - Sexual Behaviors (http://www.cdc.gov/HealthyYouth/sexualbehaviors/index.htm)
Planned Parenthood Federation of American - Teen Health resources (http://www.plannedparenthood.org/pp2/portal/medicalinfo/teensexualhealth/;jsessionid=A78C2484CE5B2442840E465DEFA46DAE)
Advocates for Youth - Comprehensive Sex Education (http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/sexeducation.htm)
Teenwire - Sexuality and relationship info you can trust from Planned Parenthood® Federation of America (http://www.teenwire.com/index.asp)
Sexuality Information and Education Council of the United States (http://www.siecus.org/)
Rethinking Schools Online - Sex (http://www.rethinkingschools.org/sex/)
Report for Congressman Henry Waxman on "The Content of Federally Funded Abstinence-Only Education Programs" (This report by Congressional Democrats documents examples of errors in abstinence-only programs.) (http://www.democrats.reform.house.gov/Documents/20041201102153-50247.pdf)
Sex, Etc. - a web site for teens by teens (http://www.sxetc.org/)
Avert.org - information for young people (http://www.avert.org/yngindx.htm)
Centers for Disease Control (http://www.cdc.gov)
CDC - Adolescent Pregnancy and Births (http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/up_adolpreg.htm)

I hope these links are not overwhelming. You may wish to start at the top and work your way down by briefly looking at whether the type of information you are looking for is easily found. These should be some of the better sites on the internet, but you may have to dig around a little. Most also contain links to other resources if you don't find what you need.

Feel free to ask for help locating specific information.

I dunno. I think being calm, sensible, and having sources will all help you out. I don't know if you can win or not, but I damn well hope you try.
No, I'd stick with the questioning of morals and emotional tactics and logical fallacies

Well - you could carry on & disrupt the class with various juvenile antics, organized protesting, etc. This will just get you in trouble, annoy a load of other people, & your concerns will never make it back to the people who are responsible for the changes needed.

Or - you might start off by not attacking the messinger. Go to the people whos' job it is to deal with this sort of controversy! If you want to change the educational system then talk to the local PTA. Work on your local representatives, the mayor, your board of chosen freeloaders, etc.

Welcome to Democracy. It's a lot of work; but, hey, if this is *really* worth doing. Otherwise - Good luck! yer gonna need it.
:headbang:

I'm reading these and I am stunned that we dont see other connections. I figure the best type of teaching for this sort of thing is parents at home. Let school teach the Three "R"s. Hell I never knew what a blow job or anal sex was until sex ed. For that fact I never knew alot about sex when they started teaching it in school. I mean, do we really need our 8 year olds worrying about this? Now I know the argument could be made that with all the stuff on TV and in public exposure to this is inevitable. Well shit, I wasnt allowed to see R rated movies or MTV or any of that growing up. I do now that I am a grown ass man, but my parents took a little responsiblity and taught me what I needed to know when I needed it. At the time of my marriage I had only been with that person.

... in a lesson next week, and I want to be able to respond, because it is a standpoint I strongly disagreewith, that abstinence should be taught INSTEAD of condoms, etc, rather than ALONGSIDE condoms.

So I was hoping you guys could offer me some arguments I could use as to why teaching abstinence only is bad.


Abstinence was taught in Ireland to up till fairly recently, but we were taught about different methods of contraception, with a strong emphasis on 'Abstinence is the best form of contraception', being strongly Catholic and all. There's a high rate of teenage pregnancies over there, but it's dropping all the time because people know the old wives tales about not getting pregnant the first time, etc are nothing but BS.
Use this arguement -- young people will experiment sexually regardless of how much abstinence is emphasised, it's better to arm the youth of today with useful information about guarding themselves against STD's and pregnancy, because sexual education is a lesson in life, not just something to scare young people off sex. Young people should be taught how to be smart about their sexual encounters.
I've never picked up an STD or gotten pregnant in the many years I've been sexually active, then again, I knew how to protect myself. Pick up information leaflets from your doctors office, or look up different methods on the internet, the supply of information is endless

Does it really matter what they teach in a school? I spent my high school days ignoring much of what teachers said and getting the information for myself if I really wanted to know about it. I read history books in most classes when I didn't want to listen to the teacher. If they only teach abstinence and you don't agree with this simply tune the instructor out, go home and get on the internet and find the information you want. Or, go to the library or speak with your folks to get the information.
Its like worrying about them teaching only creationism or evolution in schools. As if this is the only place in the world students can receive information on the subjects. There is an entire world of ideas and places outside of schools and we just need a little energy to go look.