NationStates Jolt Archive

This is something I can't understand, the rest of the world is doing cars like for example the Brera (http://autosuper.ru/pub/photos/brera.jpg) or even the Volvo S80 (http://www.svend.com/volvo/Resources/index5.jpeg). Seems the best reply the American car industry can come up with is the Chrysler 300 (http://www.chrysler.com/300/features/exterior_features/img/main_exterior_features.jpg). Don't know about the rest of you, but this, along with seemingly countless other American cars, seems to be fashioned out of a brick.
Past styling now, moving onto safety instead, (using the NCAP crash tests results). Just to compare a few cars.
Ford Mondeo (http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=3&id2=115) against a few rivals. This got four stars, compared against Citroen C5 (http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=3&id2=205), -Renault Laguna (http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=3&id2=90) and Volvo S40 (http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=3&id2=195).
Even in a different class America is outdone. Jeep Cherokee (http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=9&id2=174) didn't match cars like the Volvo XC90 (http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=9&id2=160) or BMW X5 (http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=9&id2=157).
One last category, looking at fuel consumption. I compared three cars using fueleconomy.gov and the results were:

2005 Subaru Forester AWD 2005 Honda CR-V 4WD 2005 Jeep Cherokee 4WD
Fuel Type Regular Regular Regular

MPG (city) 22 22 20

MPG (hwy) 28 27 24

MPG (comb) 25 24 22

Annual Fuel Cost $1236 $1289 $1406

American cars are crap.

German engineering is the best.

I guess that's why in Daimler-Chrysler, the only part of the company that's not in the red is Chrysler.

I would agree that most US car styling is from the Retarded School of Styling, and it does seem that all the people from the styling department of American Motors ended up over at GM (some of their current line is atrocity in motion).

But it would seem that the Japanese are kicking everyone's ass now. European car makers are taking a beating - not from the US, but from the likes of Lexus and Toyota and Honda.

I guess that's why in Daimler-Chrysler, the only part of the company that's not in the red is Chrysler.

I would agree that most US car styling is from the Retarded School of Styling, and it does seem that all the people from the styling department of American Motors ended up over at GM (some of their current line is atrocity in motion).

But it would seem that the Japanese are kicking everyone's ass now. European car makers are taking a beating - not from the US, but from the likes of Lexus and Toyota and Honda.
Let me ask you. Would you rather drive a Mercedes (http://www.autogazeta.com/g/415/Mercedes.jpg) or a Lexus (http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/09/sc43003_03_800.jpg)

I think its more a matter of personal taste and as construction techniques get better the gap will close, but after having driven a couple of american cars (Dodge Intrepid and a Jeep cherokee Laredo, both rentals) I didn't like a couple of things about both, that said, they were both distinctly better than some european cars i have driven.

Let me ask you. Would you rather drive a Mercedes (http://www.autogazeta.com/g/415/Mercedes.jpg) or a Lexus (http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/09/sc43003_03_800.jpg)

Lexus. There have been documented quality control problems with Mercedes and BMW cars over the past few years.

I think its more a matter of personal taste and as construction techniques get better the gap will close, but after having driven a couple of american cars (Dodge Intrepid and a Jeep cherokee Laredo, both rentals) I didn't like a couple of things about both, that said, they were both distinctly better than some european cars i have driven.
Such as?

Let me ask you. Would you rather drive a Mercedes (http://www.autogazeta.com/g/415/Mercedes.jpg) or a Lexus (http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/09/sc43003_03_800.jpg)

I'll have a 3 pointed star please bob :D

Lexus. There have been documented quality control problems with Mercedes and BMW cars over the past few years.
No quality problems. I wouldn't know aboutBMW, but I've had a Mercedes for 3 years, nearly four, and I've never had a prob. with it. After three years, it's starting to have electrical problems, but that's about all.

I'll have a 3 pointed star please bob :D
What's a three pointed star?

Such as?

In terms of space and quality, they beat a new volvo estate hands down, more comfortable and the ride was smoother, but the volvo was a better drive, more efficient and to my mind, a lot more fun.

But having driven my dads (now sold) Merc E240, both of the US cars paled in comparison. The ride, handling, comfort (esp the seats) were a lot more appealing. Also the build quality, like no real tacky plastic dashboards, was superior in the Merc.

Nicely done Heilingkeit, now let me do a comparison like yours.
Would you rather drive a Mercedes (http://vnexpress.net/Vietnam/Oto-Xe-may/2004/06/3B9D3F98/A_3_cua_1B.jpg) or a Lexus (http://www.automarketreview.com/graphics/reviews/lexuslfs.jpg)?
(note: I'd take the Lexus anyday;))

Let me ask you. Would you rather drive a Mercedes (http://www.autogazeta.com/g/415/Mercedes.jpg) or a Lexus (http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/09/sc43003_03_800.jpg)
an Alfa Romeo (http://users.belgacom.net/bn647098/pics/Alfa-8C-Competizione-4.jpg)

What's a three pointed star?

Its the badge of Mercedes...its a 3 pointed star.

In terms of space and quality, they beat a new volvo estate hands down, more comfortable and the ride was smoother, but the volvo was a better drive, more efficient and to my mind, a lot more fun.

But having driven my dads (now sold) Merc E240, both of the US cars paled in comparison. The ride, handling, comfort (esp the seats) were a lot more appealing. Also the build quality, like no real tacky plastic dashboards, was superior in the Merc.
Ahh, I'm glad you like them. When I'm on the Autobahn with my Chrysler, I can barely breach the 90miles/hour limit before my engine starts making oodd sounds.

Now, I trake my Mercedes. Ever gone 170miles/hour?

Nicely done Heilingkeit, now let me do a comparison like yours.
Would you rather drive a Mercedes (http://vnexpress.net/Vietnam/Oto-Xe-may/2004/06/3B9D3F98/A_3_cua_1B.jpg) or a Lexus (http://www.automarketreview.com/graphics/reviews/lexuslfs.jpg)?
(note: I'd take the Lexus anyday;))

Isn't that Lexus a concept at the moment though?

Nicely done Heilingkeit, now let me do a comparison like yours.
Would you rather drive a Mercedes (http://vnexpress.net/Vietnam/Oto-Xe-may/2004/06/3B9D3F98/A_3_cua_1B.jpg) or a Lexus (http://www.automarketreview.com/graphics/reviews/lexuslfs.jpg)?
(note: I'd take the Lexus anyday;))
That is such an unfair comparison. I compared two sports cars. You compare a family car with a jigh tech sports car. I'm for the Mercees anyways. I know people and can't be seen in a Lexus.

Isn't that Lexus a concept at the moment though?
Yeah, it is. :( It will become a production model though. :)

Its the badge of Mercedes...its a 3 pointed star.
Oh...I see.

Ahh, I'm glad you like them. When I'm on the Autobahn with my Chrysler, I can barely breach the 90miles/hour limit before my engine starts making oodd sounds.

Now, I trake my Mercedes. Ever gone 170miles/hour?

The E240 was limited to 155mph, and I only ever hit 135mph on the autobahn, but having been in a TVR Tuscan, i know what speed is :D didn't get to drive it though :(

Lexus, was originally named TOYOTA lexus, before they split the range.

And I have always found since the 1980's Merc's have got tinny (except the 500)

So I'd rather a BMW. I have always found them much better to drive, especially if you can drive them hard :D

I had 120mph out of a 1992 BMW 520iSE with 4 Adults and luggage, when I was late for a ferry (The tyres etc is rated to over 150mph, or I wouldn't have tried)
And didn't realise how fast I was going (I thought I was around the 90mph mark)

That is such an unfair comparison. I compared two sports cars.
You compared one relatively compact CC, against a big sporty coupe. Big difference. Thats like comparing the SL55AMG against the Smart Roadster.

No quality problems. I wouldn't know aboutBMW, but I've had a Mercedes for 3 years, nearly four, and I've never had a prob. with it. After three years, it's starting to have electrical problems, but that's about all.

I have two Dodge Intrepids. One is a 1994 model, and the other is a 2002 model.

I have never had a single problem of any kind with either.

Neither is in the same class as a Mercedes or BMW for styling, or even for performance. But what I needed was a car that had four doors, got good gas mileage, and I didn't want to be in the shop - ever.

Probably the most expensive thing I ever had done was putting in Bosch platinum spark plugs when I bought them.

The 1994 model has nearly 300,000 miles on it, and it still runs well (so quietly that I have to look at the tach to see if it's running when I'm idling).

My brother-in-law, over the same period (since 1994) has had to get rid of eight BMW models - because of mechanical problems.

an Alfa Romeo (http://users.belgacom.net/bn647098/pics/Alfa-8C-Competizione-4.jpg)
Nice. That looks very similar to the corvette (http://www.motordesktop.com/wallpaper/sportscars/Chevrolet%20Corvette%202005%202%20-%201024x768.jpg)though.

The E240 was limited to 155mph, and I only ever hit 135mph on the autobahn, but having been in a TVR Tuscan, i know what speed is :D didn't get to drive it though :(
It's an E240. I take either my S 55 AMG or my CLK 320

This is something I can't understand, the rest of the world is doing cars like for example the Brera (http://autosuper.ru/pub/photos/brera.jpg) or even the Volvo S80 (http://www.svend.com/volvo/Resources/index5.jpeg).
Volvo is actually owned by Ford now.

You compared one relatively compact CC, against a big sporty coupe. Big difference. Thats like comparing the SL55AMG against the Smart Roadster.
Mine was fairer than yours though.

Ahhh Lexus is crap. The only thing you have to worry about is what the Germans and Italians are offering. Or if you have the money to pay for the repair bills go with what the Brits offer. I'll take the BMW M5, Astin Martin DB9 Zagato, and lets go with a Ferrari F-40 for some whoop-ass....

Ahhh Lexus is crap. The only thing you have to worry about is what the Germans and Italians are offering. Or if you have the money to pay for the repair bills go with what the Brits offer. I'll take the BMW M5, Astin Martin DB9 Zagato, and lets go with a Ferrari F-40 for some whoop-ass....
Amen

This is something I can't understand, the rest of the world is doing cars like for example the Brera (http://autosuper.ru/pub/photos/brera.jpg) or even the Volvo S80 (http://www.svend.com/volvo/Resources/index5.jpeg). Seems the best reply the American car industry can come up with is the Chrysler 300 (http://www.chrysler.com/300/features/exterior_features/img/main_exterior_features.jpg). Don't know about the rest of you, but this, along with seemingly countless other American cars, seems to be fashioned out of a brick.
Past styling now, moving onto safety instead, (using the NCAP crash tests results). Just to compare a few cars.
Ford Mondeo (http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=3&id2=115) against a few rivals. This got four stars, compared against Citroen C5 (http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=3&id2=205), -Renault Laguna (http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=3&id2=90) and Volvo S40 (http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=3&id2=195).
Even in a different class America is outdone. Jeep Cherokee (http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=9&id2=174) didn't match cars like the Volvo XC90 (http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=9&id2=160) or BMW X5 (http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=9&id2=157).
One last category, looking at fuel consumption. I compared three cars using fueleconomy.gov and the results were:

2005 Subaru Forester AWD 2005 Honda CR-V 4WD 2005 Jeep Cherokee 4WD
Fuel Type Regular Regular Regular

MPG (city) 22 22 20

MPG (hwy) 28 27 24

MPG (comb) 25 24 22

Annual Fuel Cost $1236 $1289 $1406

Sorry Sanc, you know I love you... but youre comparing apples and oranges for the most part here. ie: This last comparison, its hardly fair to put a Cherokee up (Full size) up against cars that although they are in the same class outside of NA are in a midsize class over here (the Cherokee is twice the size of a CR-V!) Also, you might want to get numbers for a Chevy Blazer etc. and compare - you'll find the number gap narrows substantially.

Not to mention that anyone who knows SUV's will agree that indeed the CR-V and Forester are in a totally different function group - while they might be equally as comfortable in the urban jungle as the Jeep, I'd shudder to see someone try and take that little Honda on half the trails I've seen domestics on! When it comes to true outdoor functionality - most (with the exception of certain Toyotas and Land Rovers) of the vehicles imported into NA simply can't cut it. They simply aren't tough enough to handle the abuse - I know, I've seen enough of them stranded on the side of the Crowfoot and had to help them off the mountain. They might do ok on flat ground... but put them on a decent incline where the engine glows red hot on the way up... and the brakes glow red hot on the way down... then we can talk! ;)

There are quite a few of the 'urbanite snob wagons' over here (completely useless excuses to make it look like you have a bigger... bank account) like the Escalade, Navigator etc. But there again - they happen to be in a class of their own (and at that, not one which I am particularly fond of). In the end, the vast majority of SUV's fall into this category (which I call 'suburbanite trend following yuppie wagons'). :p

You compared one relatively compact CC, against a big sporty coupe. Big difference. Thats like comparing the SL55AMG against the Smart Roadster.

SMART Roadsters rule! Esp. the Brabus ones...they go like hell :D

SMART Roadsters rule! Esp. the Brabus ones...they go like hell :D

I just want a Cooper Mini.

You may not be the fastest thing on the road, but you feel like you're going fast when you're that low to the ground.

There are quite a few of the 'urbanite snob wagons' over here (completely useless excuses to make it look like you have a bigger... bank account) like the Escalade, Navigator etc.

We got some of the Man Utd squad near me and one of them (Wayne Rooney) has one of them (Navigator)...talk about fookin fugly! It looks awful...almost as bad as wayne... :D

I just want a Cooper Mini.

You may not be the fastest thing on the road, but you feel like you're going fast when you're that low to the ground.

And they are often much more fun to drive too! Which is why i like the roadster, sports coupe, stylish, efficient, fun and compared to others for its performance, cheap too.

I just want a Cooper Mini.

You may not be the fastest thing on the road, but you feel like you're going fast when you're that low to the ground.
Mini is owned by BMW

Mini is owned by BMW

Doesn't come off like one, though.

Doesn't come off like one, though.
Is that good or bad?

Let me ask you. Would you rather drive a Mercedes (http://www.autogazeta.com/g/415/Mercedes.jpg) or a Lexus (http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/09/sc43003_03_800.jpg)
lexus all the way!!!! :p

Is that good or bad?

IMHO bad, the inside feels very crap and the dials and such are not as good quality as in a normal BMW. Plus the back seats are a joke.

IMHO bad, the inside feels very crap and the dials and such are not as good quality as in a normal BMW. Plus the back seats are a joke.
Good.

Volvo is actually owned by Ford now.
'Tis owned by ford, yet it is still Swedish.
My family owns 2! :D

'Tis owned by ford, yet it is still Swedish.
My family owns 2! :D
But it has been disgraced, just like Jaguar.

Good.

Drives like a beast though, esp the Cooper :D

We got some of the Man Utd squad near me and one of them (Wayne Rooney) has one of them...talk about fookin fugly! It looks awful...almost as bad as wayne... :D
Thats the funny thing - for as much as people spend on these tubs - they really arent getting much. I dont even come close to understanding the concept behind the CR-V, look at the sub-frame and rear axles on that thing, then ask yourself: Seriously, why did they make this thing a 4X4... isn't that an oxymoron? Most of the SUV's out there are nothing more than a ridiculous attempt to cash in on the latest midlife crisis trend.

Of course, I dont see much functionality in cars like the Smart, or the mini either - unless they are to be used for the sole function of a commuter car. You can't put enough luggage in them cars to go anywhere. I did see a smart car doing 60 Kph up the Coquihalla last weekend though (a main freeway that travels from Vancouver to the interior of BC where the average speed is 130Kph) I was terrifed for the driver at first... then mad that he would essentially endanger other people by bringing a car grossly underpowered for that kind of driving onto the road. There is a point where power becomes as much a necessity as efficiency.

I, however, feel it is important to point out my own hypocrasy - I am and have always been a fan of hot-rodding. So although I preach the values of driving efficient functional cars, I am an afficionado of the old heavy metal giants that used to dominate the blacktop. Meh, no one is perfect right!? ;)

Drives like a beast though, esp the Cooper :D
Better than the smart?

IMHO bad, the inside feels very crap and the dials and such are not as good quality as in a normal BMW. Plus the back seats are a joke.

The passengers in the "back seat" of a Coooper are also known as "the rear bumper".

The passengers in the "back seat" of a Coooper are also known as "the rear bumper".
lol

Better than the smart?

I would always go with the smart, but the mini has less road noise and a little more functionality, but for fun? Smart no question.

I would always go with the smart, but the mini has less road noise and a little more functionality, but for fun? Smart no question.
Smart is owned by Mercedes :)

Never go too fast with a smart...You'll get this Oh, crap (http://www.norbertgeorget.com/Images/AccidentSite.jpg)

Mini is owned by BMW
is that good or bad?

is that good or bad?
That is very good. BMW saved Mini from going bankrupt.

That is very good. BMW saved Mini from going bankrupt.
oh, ok. that's something random to know

I think that we must face the fact that US and European car companies are being pwned by the Japanese.

But Ford has the new mustang. that can't be beat when you compare performance to price.

I think that we must face the fact that US and European car companies are being pwned by the Japanese.
sweet

I think that we must face the fact that US and European car companies are being pwned by the Japanese.
In security maybe, but not in looks, or speed.

But Ford has the new mustang. that can't be beat when you compare performance to price.
I hate Mustang.

Smart is owned by Mercedes :)

you mean daimlerchrysler :)

In security maybe, but not in looks, or speed.

In terms of market, the Japanese are winning.

you mean daimlerchrysler :)
Nooo...Marcedes owns smart. It's like Toyata and Scion.
Mercedes owns Chrysler.

In terms of market, the Japanese are winning.
because they have cheap cars.

because they have cheap cars.
That never break.

That never break.
So? If your car beaks, buy a new one.

because they have cheap cars.

I've rarely seen a Honda malfunction, no matter how ill-treated by its owner.

Run without any proper maintenance at all - and no oil change, I've seen several go over 200,000 miles.

Nooo...Marcedes owns smart. It's like Toyata and Scion.
Mercedes owns Chrysler.
i know. although ownership really has nothing to do with production techniques. your point about jaguar and volvo "corrupted" by American ownership is ridiculous

So? If your car beaks, buy a new one.
Cars cost $$$$$.

i know. although ownership really has nothing to do with production techniques. your point about jaguar and volvo "corrupted" by American ownership is ridiculous
I'm not driving a jaguar or a volvo because my money will help the Ford company.

Cars cost $$$$$.
Yes, they do. your point?

I'm not driving a jaguar or a volvo because my money will help the Ford company.
whatever. most people drive cars because of cost and quality, not because they have a personal grudge against a corporation

whatever. most people drive cars because of cost and quality, not because they have a personal grudge against a corporation
I'm not helping a car company that makes enormous square boxes and sells them as cars.

I'm not helping a car company that makes enormous square boxes and sells them as cars.
Good for you. that just means not everyone takes car companies as personally as you do. to each his own.

Good for you. that just means not everyone takes car companies as personally as you do. to each his own.
Yep.

If I'm paying more than 25,000 dollars for a car, I expect it to last, without any unscheduled repairs, for 10 years, and approximately 300,000 miles.

I've seen older Mercedes do this (from the late 1980s). Never seen a BMW do this - in fact, the other way around seems to be the rule for a BMW.

The more over 50,000 dollars per car, the more I tend to think the car should last without any unscheduled repairs for as long as I care to keep the car.

I've gotten this sort of "no unscheduled maintenance" performance out of a Dodge Intrepid (in two widely separate model years), and seen it in many Japanese cars.

Yes, they do. your point?
I typically don't buy something, knowing it's going to break pretty soon and I'm going to have to replace it, espescially when there's something cheaper out there that is of higher quality. Of course this might just be my cheap mentality, but who knows.

Ok, this thread has become waaaay over generalized.

C'mon kids, step back, take a deep breath, and relax!!

There are good quality and poor quality cars made by every automotive builder out there. Theres no need to trash one car company over another based on biased opinons.

What Ive seen so far:

Person 1: Japanese car pwn!!! American cars suck... euros are too expensive.
Person 2: American cars pwn!!! Jap cars suck... euros are ok.
Person 3: Euro cars pws!!! Everything else is a cheap knock off.

Half of these car manufacturers are owned and operated by the same people!! Furthermore, they use the same bloody parts and in some cases, the same bloody drivetrains!! Certain cars are better at certain things - and in most cases the way a person percieves a cars worth is based on what they find useful about said car. What Im seeing here, is a lot of opinion - which is fine, but how in the world can one be expected to formulate a valid argument based on opinon? Lets chalk it up to saying that in our own opinons, we all have our likes and dislikes when it comes to cars. :)

Good.
huh? Why is it good that BMW owns the Mini, and its also good that the Mini is crap compared to the BMW?

If I'm paying more than 25,000 dollars for a car, I expect it to last, without any unscheduled repairs, for 10 years, and approximately 300,000 miles.

I've seen older Mercedes do this (from the late 1980s). Never seen a BMW do this - in fact, the other way around seems to be the rule for a BMW.

The more over 50,000 dollars per car, the more I tend to think the car should last without any unscheduled repairs for as long as I care to keep the car.

I've gotten this sort of "no unscheduled maintenance" performance out of a Dodge Intrepid (in two widely separate model years), and seen it in many Japanese cars.
I lease my cars. I pay 800/month for each of my cars, and lease every Mercedes for three yaers. By then it will be broken and there will be a newer edition out.

huh? Why is it good that BMW owns the Mini, and its also good that the Mini is crap compared to the BMW?
It's good that German cars are taking over.

It's good that German cars are taking over.
The Mini isn't German.

The Mini isn't German.I know. It is owned by a German car company.

I know. It is owned by a German car company.
The car isn't German though. It looks nothing like any of BMW's other products. It is the car itself that defines a particular car, not the corporation that's behind it.

The car isn't German though. It looks nothing like any of BMW's other products. It is the car itself that defines a particular car, not the corporation that's behind it.
Yes, I know. It is British, but is owned by BMW.

Yes, I know. It is British, but is owned by BMW.
tell us something we don't know...

tell us something we don't know...
I wa strying to clarify for trilateral commision.

Yes, I know. It is British, but is owned by BMW.
Where did I say it wasn't? corporate ownership is most of the time irrelevant to what a particular car is like. Definitely so in the case of Mini.

Where did I say it wasn't? corporate ownership is most of the time irrelevant to what a particular car is like. Definitely so in the case of Mini.
Yes, I know, but the company that owns it plays a major role in finances.

Yes, I know, but the company that owns it plays a major role in finances.
What does that have to do with anything? No one buys cars with the company's annual budget report in mind. People buy a car because they like the car's engineering and design, not because they like the company's accountants.

What does that have to do with anything? No one buys cars with the company's annual budget report in mind. People buy a car because they like the car's engineering and design, not because they like the company's accountants.
Yes, I know. I'm not buying a car that is being helped by a bad car company.

Yes, I know. I'm not buying a car that is being helped by a bad car company.
That doesnt make much sense... A good car is a good car, even if it is owned by a corporation that makes otherwise bad cars. You may think Ford makes ugly boxes but if you buy Volvo, you are encouraging them to invest in Volvo, not the Taurus.

That doesnt make much sense... A good car is a good car, even if it is owned by a corporation that makes otherwise bad cars. You may think Ford makes ugly boxes but if you buy Volvo, you are encouraging them to invest in Volvo, not the Taurus.
So?

Americans live for the weekend. I think most of the itme you can check on what day of the week a car was made. If you want an American car, avoid Monday and Friday cars. My teacher bought American cars that had parts fall off... I think that one was a Friday car.
Other than that, I think America is too much into bigger=better, safer which is a stupid way to think. All That I know is that I am going to get a European or Japanese car. I don't want to waste my money on an American car.

Americans live for the weekend. I think most of the itme you can check on what day of the week a car was made. If you want an American car, avoid Monday and Friday cars. My teacher bought American cars that had parts fall off... I think that one was a Friday car.
Other than that, I think America is too much into bigger=better, safer which is a stupid way to think. All That I know is that I am going to get a European or Japanese car. I don't want to waste my money on an American car.
That's teh spirit.

When my dad was looking for a new car, he narrowed it down to two. Chevy Impala Vs Honda Accord. Not only was the Accord miles cheaper, the Accord came with 6 airbags, the Impala came with 2. Impala came sans leather seats, only the top model got alloy wheels, things that come as standard on the Fiat Punto, things that you shouldn't even need to ask if they're there on a car of that standard. Its pathetic, then they market it as an executive car and charge loads for it.

http://www.internationaldelivers.com/site_layout/xtfamily/cxt.asp

Eat your heart out Hummer....

Do American car companies sell small cars in Ameirica. Of all the TV shows and films I have seen of America I dont think I have ever seen something like a Ka or a Corsa or something of comparable size driving round.

Do American car companies sell small cars in Ameirica. Of all the TV shows and films I have seen of America I dont think I have ever seen something like a Ka or a Corsa or something of comparable size driving round.
What's a Ka? Or a Corsa?

Small? That's un-American! Seriously, though, have you SEEN the monsters out there?! I have to drive an SUV just so I can see around me (I am not kidding, I'm short and can't see very well with all these 7 foot crap-tastic cars around)! And there's no WAY I'm taking my little motorcycle out during rush hour, oh hell no. I'd get killed!

'sides, America is a big damned place. I've driven the length and breadth of it and let me tell you, when you're out in the middle of nowhere and your car breaks down, you'll be happy to have that extra leg room waiting for a tow-truck or state police car to work it's way over to you.

Do American car companies sell small cars in Ameirica. Of all the TV shows and films I have seen of America I dont think I have ever seen something like a Ka or a Corsa or something of comparable size driving round.
The Ford Focus is one of the highest rated cars in its class by consumer reports. The PT Cruizer seems to be doing well also.

The Ford Focus is one of the highest rated cars in its class by consumer reports.

Whats that got to do with whetehr or not America sells small cars

What's a Ka? Or a Corsa?


Obviously not then

http://www.ford.co.uk/ka

http://vauxhall.co.uk/showroom/search/brand.jhtml?brand=Corsa&vehicleType=Car&source=homePage

I guess though you havent heard of Vauxhall either?

Whats that got to do with whetehr or not America sells small cars
Otehr than the fact that it is a small car I guess not much.

.

Where are all the European cars? (http://auto.consumerguide.com/articles/index.cfm/act/featuredarticles/article/FA_Best-Buy.html)

There are very few european cars listed here, Japan and the US seem to make the highest quality affordable cars.

No European cars here! (http://money.cnn.com/2004/03/08/pf/autos/CR_best_cars/)


.

Otehr than the fact that it is a small car I guess not much.

The Focus is not a small car. Its an estate at smallest. The Ford Ka is a small car. The Vauxcell Corsa is a small car. The Fiat Punto is a small car. The Mini Cooper is a small car. The Rover Metro is a small car. The Pergoet 205 or 206 is a small car. Those are small cars .The Ford Focus is more in the league of Vauxcell Vectra or the Pergoet 306 or 307.

What, like two-seaters? Those things are either for yupie post-hippie idiots or people going through their mid-life crisis old-school style. And we HAVE them on the road, they've just been swallowed whole by teh giant SUVs out there.

What, like two-seaters? Those things are either for yupie post-hippie idiots or people going through their mid-life crisis old-school style. And we HAVE them on the road, they've just been swallowed whole by teh giant SUVs out there.

I dont know if you know enough about the European car industry but those are not two seaters.

I dont know if you know enough about the European car industry but those are not two seaters.

Evidently I know no-ting about the European car industry. I drive whatever runs, and currently that is a Mitsubishi Explorer, the SMALLEST SUV that we could find. Or my Honda tinni-tiny Rebel MC, but mostly the SUV. If it runs, GREAT! I'll take it.

(My knowledge of cars == my knowledge of women) <= 0

I shouldn't even be in this thread.

EDIT: OH! I SEE! They're minis! Two-door four seaters. Eh, even two-door four seaters in America still have a spacious truck and gratuitous hood space. Those I've seen/driven, anyway. I guess it's all about what the country requires and America . . . don't require such small-ish cars.

I lease my cars. I pay 800/month for each of my cars, and lease every Mercedes for three yaers. By then it will be broken and there will be a newer edition out.
So you know by experience that German engineering isn't all it's hyped up to be, and their cars break down easily.

So?
...You're not making any sense?

Where did the American auto industry go wrong?
The answer is always that it had to do with the popularity of imports after the energy crisis. However, American cars had plenty of time to recover after that, more than thirty years!
There are plenty of engineers in this country, and our marketing teams are second to none. So I don't know what happened. All I can say is that we need management pizzazz. We need another Lee Iacoca in the US auto industry.

The car isn't German though. It looks nothing like any of BMW's other products. It is the car itself that defines a particular car, not the corporation that's behind it.

The Mini's mechanics was designed by Germans, in Germany. The car is assembled in the BMW owned Oxford plant in Britain, which was recently gone over by the Germans updated and set up for Mini production.

The Mini is a German product built in Britain. Just as much as the X5 is a German product built in America.

Oh and the car was designed by Frank Stephenson, currently head of Ferrari/Maserati Design and soon to be head of Design for Fiat, was born in Casablanca. His father was Norwegian and his mother a Spaniard. Until he was seven he only spoke Arabic and French. The car was not designed by a brit either.

Different strokes for different folks. I'd take a C6 Zo6 Vette or a slightly modified Mustang Cobra over 99% luxury cars anydays, but i'm willing to sacrafice luxury for speed. Pretty much all of the automakers have their flagship vehicles and the cars that should be taken out to the field and shot.

The Mini's mechanics was designed by Germans, in Germany.
Actually the Mini Cooper's engine was developed by Chrysler and built in one of Chrysler's factories in Brazil.
The car is assembled in the BMW owned Oxford plant in Britain, which was recently gone over by the Germans updated and set up for Mini production.
Then you go on to say that the car was designed by a Spanish-Norwegian... how is Frank Stephenson a German?

The Mini is a German product built in Britain. Just as much as the X5 is a German product built in America.
The Mini isn't really a German product. It's amultinational collaboration. This proves that the nation the parent corporation is from doesn't have much to do with the intrinsic properties of a particular car. You can't accurately judge a car by its parent corporation. It's much more realistic to judge a car by the actual physical properties it has, such as safety features, engineering, style, etc.
Oh and the car was designed by Frank Stephenson, currently head of Ferrari/Maserati Design and soon to be head of Design for Fiat, was born in Casablanca. His father was Norwegian and his mother a Spaniard. Until he was seven he only spoke Arabic and French. The car was not designed by a brit either.
I never said that the Mini was particularly British. I only asserted that it doesn't have much to do with any of BMW's other products. And you contradict your earlier claim that the Mini is German, if the designer is a Norwegian-Spaniard.

Nooo...Marcedes owns smart. It's like Toyata and Scion.
Mercedes owns Chrysler.

No, DaimlerChrysler is the overarching company that owns loads of stuff, inc. my company. Mercedes is a subsidury of DaimlerChrysler and Mercedes owns Smart. Mercedes can't actually buy other companies, DaimlerChrysler has to and then affiliate it with Mercedes.

I'm completely happy with my Seville STS. Its class, power and safety. I wouldnt trade it for anything. I had a Seville before this one and went 170,000 miles before I sold it. I'm not complaining.

I have a mondeo, and I'm pretty sure it's built in britain, and to me it isn't an american car. I mean it is quite big, but not huuuuuuuge. and it has a 1.6 engine not a 6.1

No, DaimlerChrysler is the overarching company that owns loads of stuff, inc. my company. Mercedes is a subsidury of DaimlerChrysler and Mercedes owns Smart. Mercedes can't actually buy other companies, DaimlerChrysler has to and then affiliate it with Mercedes.

And apparently, Chrysler is the only part of DaimlerChrysler that isn't hemorrhaging money.

And apparently, Chrysler is the only part of DaimlerChrysler that isn't hemorrhaging money.

Well my section is doing ok so its not entirely true, but its only one of the larger sections that isn't losing money...that said, its not doing well in europe. But Mercedes aren't doing well as they might be...

I have a mondeo, and I'm pretty sure it's built in britain, and to me it isn't an american car. I mean it is quite big, but not huuuuuuuge. and it has a 1.6 engine not a 6.1

Mondeo is indeed a product of Ford UK.

I have a mondeo, and I'm pretty sure it's built in britain, and to me it isn't an american car. I mean it is quite big, but not huuuuuuuge. and it has a 1.6 engine not a 6.1


My car seat 5 adults comfortably, with you and two of your friends in the trunk. The engine is only 4.6 litres

Actually the Mini Cooper's engine was developed by Chrysler and built in one of Chrysler's factories in Brazil.

You wish to say that BMW is using an engine built and designed by Chrysler? Why does that sound wrong? Oh yeah... cause it is. A joint development between BMW-Chrysler created the Mini engine. Which will be replaced in 2006 by a Peugot supplied engine. The Mechanics goes far beyond merely the engine of a car.

Then you go on to say that the car was designed by a Spanish-Norwegian... how is Frank Stephenson a German?

And you contradict your earlier claim that the Mini is German, if the designer is a Norwegian-Spaniard.


No I did not. The mechanics are designed by Germans/german company, The styling was designed by a Spanish-Norwegian.

The Mini isn't really a German product. It's amultinational collaboration. This proves that the nation the parent corporation is from doesn't have much to do with the intrinsic properties of a particular car.

The Mini is German now. You can pretend that having BMW behind it makes it no different than if Rover, Honda or Ford were behind the project but you would be wrong.

You can't accurately judge a car by its parent corporation. It's much more realistic to judge a car by the actual physical properties it has, such as safety features, engineering, style, etc.

No Really?

I never said that the Mini was particularly British. I only asserted that it doesn't have much to do with any of BMW's other products.

Yep, it has so little to do with any of BMW's other products that it had no bearing when considering the development of the 1 series. Yep, no bearing. And of course it couldn't possibly be used as a step up product. No no. And good lord it has nothing to do with getting people into BMW dealerships. No, nothing at all.

The MINI is BMW-lite. Its design and set-up are easily seen as a development of BMW's design emphasis and the MINI brand allows BMW to create a FWD small car that doesn't conflict as brashly as it would if it wore a propeller badge. Doesn't mean it's not BMW-lite.

...The engine is only 4.6 litresthats not an car...thats a mamouth...a dinosaur

Well my section is doing ok so its not entirely true, but its only one of the larger sections that isn't losing money...that said, its not doing well in europe. But Mercedes aren't doing well as they might be...

You know what's fascinating about this whole discussion...

the names of the companies are meaningless in relation to their nations or their origins in motorcar history.

They're labels for multinational corporations. No longer with any real affinity to a country of origin. With parts from different companies from all over the world - designed somewhere else.

Ahh, I'm glad you like them. When I'm on the Autobahn with my Chrysler, I can barely breach the 90miles/hour limit before my engine starts making oodd sounds.

Now, I trake my Mercedes. Ever gone 170miles/hour?

Do you know how few mercs can go 17o MPH? none of them cost less than 100K USD BTW.

thats not an car...thats a mamouth...a dinosaur


It couldnt be more comfortable. Its has all the power in the world, but the engine purrs-its 300 horse power. Its certainly no dinosaur. It gets 20 miles to the gallon doesnt burn a drop of oil and has super-low emissons. Leather seats and the best cd-sound system you've ever heard. And its American made.

Do you know how few mercs can go 17o MPH? none of them cost less than 100K USD BTW.

I've been up to peg the meter on my Dodge Intrepid at 120 mph, and that was without funny sounds. Didn't keep it there, because I thought it probably wasn't good to be at 5500 rpm for too long.

I've been up to 135 mph in a Saab 900 Turbo - and I felt that it was necessary to slow down, as it felt like the car was floating off the road surface. The engine wasn't working too hard, though.

Never been faster than that. Not too many cars can do it without really winding them all the way out. That, and most cars aren't too stable at that sort of speed.

I've been up to peg the meter on my Dodge Intrepid at 120 mph, and that was without funny sounds. Didn't keep it there, because I thought it probably wasn't good to be at 5500 rpm for too long.

I've been up to 135 mph in a Saab 900 Turbo - and I felt that it was necessary to slow down, as it felt like the car was floating off the road surface. The engine wasn't working too hard, though.

Never been faster than that. Not too many cars can do it without really winding them all the way out. That, and most cars aren't too stable at that sort of speed.

I worked for Ford and got to drive the Taurus SHO when it first came out at a racetrack in the Poconos,Pa- I got it to 140 mph, which didnt feel terribly fast because we were on a racetrack. Thats the fastest I ever drove. I have had my car up to 120 on the NJ Turnpike. I'm not recommending that to anyone,though.

It couldnt be more comfortable. Its has all the power in the world, but the engine purrs-its 300 horse power. Its certainly no dinosaur. It gets 20 miles to the gallon doesnt burn a drop of oil and has super-low emissons. Leather seats and the best cd-sound system you've ever heard. And its American made.

I would rather have my 1968 Super Bee back...

I would rather have my 1968 Super Bee back...

Not arguing with you there. Just out of high school, I had a 67 Camaro 66 and my best friend had a 68 Mustang coupe. We had a lot of fun with those. Gas was cheap and so were the girls.

Do you know how few mercs can go 17o MPH? none of them cost less than 100K USD BTW.

technically none. They're all limited at 155 electronicaly. In reality however a good many of them can go 170ish. E500, S500, S600, S55AMG, S65AMG, SL500, SL600, SL55 AMG, SL65 AMG, E55 AMG. Not all of those cost over 100k. Indeed the E only costs 85k, the S500 86k, The S600 some 91k. The SL 500/SL cost 92k/130k respectively.

Hell the C55 AMG only costs 54k and hits the 155 limit, which means its probably good for 160+.

The varius S and SL AMGs tend to cost over 100k though.


And I feel sorry for you other guys, I've done 170ish in a Lotus Esprit and 149 in a 540i Sedan and 155 pegged at the limiter on a M5.

I worked for Ford and got to drive the Taurus SHO when it first came out at a racetrack in the Poconos,Pa- I got it to 140 mph, which didnt feel terribly fast because we were on a racetrack. Thats the fastest I ever drove. I have had my car up to 120 on the NJ Turnpike. I'm not recommending that to anyone,though.

The first body SHO were nice fun cars. Then Ford ruined them. :(

EDIT: OH! I SEE! They're minis! Two-door four seaters. Eh, even two-door four seaters in America still have a spacious truck and gratuitous hood space. Those I've seen/driven, anyway. I guess it's all about what the country requires and America . . . don't require such small-ish cars.

Actually, most of them are four door, four seaters with less popular 2 door varities. I think America should begin to consider smaller cars. I would imagine only having large ones can lead to more traffic hazards and gridlock problems. Espically in areas with smaller roads.

It gets 20 miles to the gallon

But thats bad...better than many cars, but still, thats awful...

Europeans and Japanese drive small cars because they all live in small crowded nations.

Americans drive big cars and trucks because they live in a big uncrowded country.

American cars are less advanced but much bigger than European cars for the same money. Until recently you could buy a Mondeo in the UK and for about the same money a Crown Vic in the USA.


I live in New Zealand which is a small but uncrowded country and am deciding between a newish small car or an older 5.7 L V8 Holden.

No quality problems. I wouldn't know aboutBMW, but I've had a Mercedes for 3 years, nearly four, and I've never had a prob. with it. After three years, it's starting to have electrical problems, but that's about all.
if you compare them, compare cars at same prices.... soooo, the high class of Merc.... not the small class

My car seat 5 adults comfortably, with you and two of your friends in the trunk. The engine is only 4.6 litres

only 4.6 litres? you know you could run 3 cars comfortably for that?

Europeans and Japanese drive small cars because they all live in small crowded nations.

Americans drive big cars and trucks because they live in a big uncrowded country.

American cars are less advanced but much bigger than European cars for the same money. Until recently you could buy a Mondeo in the UK and for about the same money a Crown Vic in the USA.


I live in New Zealand which is a small but uncrowded country and am deciding between a newish small car or an older 5.7 L V8 Holden.

why would you want a 5.7 litre engine? is there something useful it can do that a 1.6 can't?

only 4.6 litres? you know you could run 3 cars comfortably for that?


I have this urge for my family and I to survive a crash too. I dont want to have a 1 litre engine in my lap.

I know a friend of a friend who drives a dirty big (very rusty) US truck in Australia.
It's not very good with fuel economy ...

I have this urge for my family and I to survive a crash too. I dont want to have a 1 litre engine in my lap.

You would rather have a 4.6 or whatever instead?

I know a friend of a friend who drives a dirty big (very rusty) US truck in Australia.
It's not very good with fuel economy ...


Maybe its time for him to get a new one. American trucks are the best-and if people fawned over them half as much as foreign built vehicles, they would last and perform better. people expect to pay through the nose for service and maintenance on foreign cars, but bitch when they have to change the oil on an American car.

I have this urge for my family and I to survive a crash too. I dont want to have a 1 litre engine in my lap.
I don't understand why an enormous engine will protect you from a crash. Surely a huge lump of metal in your lap is gonna kill you more than a smaller one? And isn't the speed limit 55 in america?

You would rather have a 4.6 or whatever instead?


Nope-and it isnt likely. Thats not even an argument. You cannot compare my car's safety with whatever econo-box you're talking about with the toy engine.

Maybe its time for him to get a new one. American trucks are the best-and if people fawned over them half as much as foreign built vehicles, they would last and perform better. people expect to pay through the nose for service and maintenance on foreign cars, but bitch when they have to change the oil on an American car.

Well, he can't afford to buy a new one either. Car insurance and registration keep on going up in Australia as well as the !@#$% fuel prices.

I don't understand why an enormous engine will protect you from a crash. Surely a huge lump of metal in your lap is gonna kill you more than a smaller one? And isn't the speed limit 55 in america?

A vehicle with an enormous engine has a lot more support to hold that engine in the larger car body. There's also a lot more "crumple zone" in a larger car.

More mass and more crumple zone in a car body means it's going to absorb a lot more punishment without injuring the occupants - and it's going to slice right through a small car.

Maybe its time for him to get a new one. American trucks are the best-and if people fawned over them half as much as foreign built vehicles, they would last and perform better. people expect to pay through the nose for service and maintenance on foreign cars, but bitch when they have to change the oil on an American car.

"American trucks are the best"? That's something of a value judgement isn't it? And I thought the guy under discussion lives in NZ or something, where an american truck *is* a foreign truck.

What exactly are american trucks best at? I know dodge trucks are best at blocking the narrow roads between my house and my kids' school. The best so far at still being driveable after you've put it on top of a tower block and then demolished the tower block with explosives is the taliban taxi, then again, that's the only one that I've heard has taken the test.

I don't understand why an enormous engine will protect you from a crash. Surely a huge lump of metal in your lap is gonna kill you more than a smaller one? And isn't the speed limit 55 in america?


The larger engine is part of a larger, safer car. The vehicle absorbs more impact than its occupants will. And I'm not a proponent of speeding. I didnt get this car for the purposes of speeding. There are certainng much faster cars out there.

Nope-and it isnt likely. Thats not even an argument. You cannot compare my car's safety with whatever econo-box you're talking about with the toy engine.

Wrong it is an arguement. Just because the car is larger doesn't make it any safer. Many just deflect the engine downwards and under the car, so no 'ending up in your lap' crap.

"American trucks are the best"? That's something of a value judgement isn't it? And I thought the guy under discussion lives in NZ or something, where an american truck *is* a foreign truck.

What exactly are american trucks best at? I know dodge trucks are best at blocking the narrow roads between my house and my kids' school. The best so far at still being driveable after you've put it on top of a tower block and then demolished the tower block with explosives is the taliban taxi, then again, that's the only one that I've heard has taken the test.

The Toyota truck that the UN uses also survived that too. They also put it in the bottom of a lake overnight and it started first time. :D

A vehicle with an enormous engine has a lot more support to hold that engine in the larger car body. There's also a lot more "crumple zone" in a larger car.

More mass and more crumple zone in a car body means it's going to absorb a lot more punishment without injuring the occupants - and it's going to slice right through a small car.

That's right, in a crash between your truck and an ordinary car, your truck is going to kill all the people in the car, and you won't have a scratch. In the same crash between two ordinary cars, nobody will have a scratch. Better get yourself a truck then. And a gun. And some RPGs.

"American trucks are the best"? That's something of a value judgement isn't it? And I thought the guy under discussion lives in NZ or something, where an american truck *is* a foreign truck.

What exactly are american trucks best at? I know dodge trucks are best at blocking the narrow roads between my house and my kids' school. The best so far at still being driveable after you've put it on top of a tower block and then demolished the tower block with explosives is the taliban taxi, then again, that's the only one that I've heard has taken the test.

Well-maybe by "best", I should have said "Number one in sales worldwide", -Ford trucks,which is a fact.
As for the rest of your emotional retort, its baseless and I'm sorry you live in such tight confines.

The larger engine is part of a larger, safer car. The vehicle absorbs more impact than its occupants will. And I'm not a proponent of speeding. I didnt get this car for the purposes of speeding. There are certainng much faster cars out there.I'm saying you don't need a 4 litre engine to do 55, and at 110 combined speed, you aren't going to do yourself real damage in any modern car.

Wrong it is an arguement. Just because the car is larger doesn't make it any safer. Many just deflect the engine downwards and under the car, so no 'ending up in your lap' crap.


Ok-you seem to be happy with whatever you drive. As it is right now and until every one else drives the equivalent of a VW Golf or smaller, I will continue to be happier and safer in my Seville. You have twisted and combined three seperate arguments-I dont own a truck and I dont speed.

"American trucks are the best"? That's something of a value judgement isn't it? And I thought the guy under discussion lives in NZ or something, where an american truck *is* a foreign truck.

What exactly are american trucks best at? I know dodge trucks are best at blocking the narrow roads between my house and my kids' school. The best so far at still being driveable after you've put it on top of a tower block and then demolished the tower block with explosives is the taliban taxi, then again, that's the only one that I've heard has taken the test.
Well-maybe by "best", I should have said "Number one in sales worldwide", -Ford trucks,which is a fact.
As for the rest of your emotional retort, its baseless and I'm sorry you live in such tight confines.
What exactly is baseless in my response?
Is it baseless that in NZ, america is a foreign country?
I base my knowledge of what trucks block the roads between my house and my kids' school best on driving along those roads when lots of different kinds of trucks are also driving them.
I base my knowledge that the Toyota Pickup can be parked on top of a tower block, and then the tower block demolished with explosives, and then the toyota taken out of the rubble and driven on having seen it done.
And what tight confines are you talking about, the narrow roads?

The Toyota truck that the UN uses also survived that too. They also put it in the bottom of a lake overnight and it started first time. :Dthat's what i mean - toyota pickup = taliban taxi

That's right, in a crash between your truck and an ordinary car, your truck is going to kill all the people in the car, and you won't have a scratch. In the same crash between two ordinary cars, nobody will have a scratch. Better get yourself a truck then. And a gun. And some RPGs.


Take a deep breath, stop shreiking. Read your posts. You're overly emotional and not making any sense at all.

Ok-you seem to be happy with whatever you drive. As it is right now and until every one else drives the equivalent of a VW Golf or smaller, I will continue to be happier and safer in my Seville. You have twisted and combined three seperate arguments-I dont own a truck and I dont speed.Nobody except you has mentioned speeding

Ok-you seem to be happy with whatever you drive. As it is right now and until every one else drives the equivalent of a VW Golf or smaller, I will continue to be happier and safer in my Seville. You have twisted and combined three seperate arguments-I dont own a truck and I dont speed.

:rolleyes: No, it was a simple enough reply to what you said. I never mentioned you speeding or owning a truck. Besides, a Golf is going to be just as safe as your Seville.

That's right, in a crash between your truck and an ordinary car, your truck is going to kill all the people in the car, and you won't have a scratch. In the same crash between two ordinary cars, nobody will have a scratch. Better get yourself a truck then. And a gun. And some RPGs.

Even my Dodge Intrepid is larger than most compact cars. And I already have a gun.

That's right, in a crash between your truck and an ordinary car, your truck is going to kill all the people in the car, and you won't have a scratch. In the same crash between two ordinary cars, nobody will have a scratch. Better get yourself a truck then. And a gun. And some RPGs.
Take a deep breath, stop shreiking. Read your posts. You're overly emotional and not making any sense at all.Why don't you read them? Or if you like, I'll explain them slowly, concept by concept, so you can see the sense.

that's what i mean - toyota pickup = taliban taxi

Nice, i'll have to remember that one :D

Even my Dodge Intrepid is larger than most compact cars. And I already have a gun.Larger!=Safer

:rolleyes: No, it was a simple enough reply to what you said. I never mentioned you speeding or owning a truck. Besides, a Golf is going to be just as safe as your Seville.


On which planet?

Nice, i'll have to remember that one :DThe standard troop transport and mechanised cavalry unit of guerillas all over the world is a toyota pickup with a heavy machine gun mounted on it

Even my Dodge Intrepid is larger than most compact cars. And I already have a gun.

They're ok cars the Intrepid, i've driven one before, some firmer suspension and a slightly more efficient engine and it would be a very good car.

On which planet?

This one. With 6 Airbags, side impact bars, ABS and all the rest, I would even say it was a damn sight safer.

They're ok cars the Intrepid, i've driven one before, some firmer suspension and a slightly more efficient engine and it would be a very good car.
looking at a dodge intrepid (which i can't say i've seen before) it's a big car. Or would be considered so in europe.

The standard troop transport and mechanised cavalry unit of guerillas all over the world is a toyota pickup with a heavy machine gun mounted on it

Hence why they don't have the worlds best sales as they have all been nicked ;)

:rolleyes: No, it was a simple enough reply to what you said. I never mentioned you speeding or owning a truck. Besides, a Golf is going to be just as safe as your Seville.
And a 1977 mark 1 golf gti with a 1.6 engine is going to be much quicker and much more manouvrable

looking at a dodge intrepid (which i can't say i've seen before) it's a big car. Or would be considered so in europe.

Think Mercedes C-Class, but a little larger. The engine would be considered massive though. The one I drove had a 3.6l if i remember rightly.

Think Mercedes C-Class, but a little larger.
can't remember which one the c-class is. i found some pics on the net, and the intrepid looks like a family saloon.

What exactly is baseless in my response?
Is it baseless that in NZ, america is a foreign country?
I base my knowledge of what trucks block the roads between my house and my kids' school best on driving along those roads when lots of different kinds of trucks are also driving them.
I base my knowledge that the Toyota Pickup can be parked on top of a tower block, and then the tower block demolished with explosives, and then the toyota taken out of the rubble and driven on having seen it done.
And what tight confines are you talking about, the narrow roads?
and I'm still wondering which of the above is baseless and emotional?

I don't mind the Buick lines, specifically LeSabre and Park Avenue.

This one. With 6 Airbags, side impact bars, ABS and all the rest, I would even say it was a damn sight safer.


Safer? The seville has those same features, but on a larger scale. The full size spare in the trunk would likely absorb more impact from a rear end collision than the entire Golf body.

Think Mercedes C-Class, but a little larger.

Certainly bigger than a Golf.

On the other hand, not all pickup trucks are safer - what matters is how well the crumple zones work and where they are.

If a car is below a certain size, the crumple zones hardly matter, as there is major intrusion into the passenger compartment. And if the crumple zones don't work, you get nasty things like the knee injuries so common in pickup trucks.

BMW had a problem for a while with the 5 series - the body was far too stiff and didn't crumple at all. Bad for the car they hit - bad for the driver of the BMW (who gets thrown around harder in the car), and good for the BMW at the repair shop.

IMO, it's the price,image and publicity in question.

I'd go for a merc anyday compared to an american car.

There still is the inkling, that they are of low quality, high petrol consumption and not your worth for the price. They need a new image.

Japanese - Cheap and good consumption
Europe - BMW, Merc - Young/Rich
American - ??

Safer? The seville has those same features, but on a larger scale. The full size spare in the trunk would likely absorb more impact from a rear end collision than the entire Golf body.

I would have to disagree. The new Golf just recieved a 12 Star rating from NCAP, which is pretty much a world leader in safety tests. This means it is virtually the safest car on the road.

Linky (http://www.automotive.com/2005/12/volkswagen/golf/safety/)

I did look at the seville on the same site but ratings were n/a (http://www.automotive.com/2004/12/cadillac/seville/safety/)

IMO, it's the price,image and publicity in question.

I'd go for a merc anyday compared to an american car.

There still is the inkling, that they are of low quality, high petrol consumption and not your worth for the price. They need a new image.

Japanese - Cheap and good consumption
Europe - BMW, Merc - Young/Rich
American - ??

I still think GM cars suck, especially on styling. I think they're using the old staff from American Motors Corporation to do their body styling.

Ford is a bit better than GM (IMHO) for mechanical reliability.

I have had no problems with Dodge or Chrysler since 1994. They seem to have learned something from the Japanese. That might be because parts of their engines come from Mitsubishi.

I get close to 30 miles per gallon in my newer Intrepid. And I've never had a problem with it, or the older Intrepid. Zero.

I get close to 30 miles per gallon in my newer Intrepid. And I've never had a problem with it, or the older Intrepid. Zero.

For a car of its engine size thats good. What size is it by the way?

I'm not a big fan of American-designed cars simply because of their handling; having driven some old ones and newer ones while I was over there for a time, I can safely say that I'm not a fan. If they could get around the seemingly ancient technology they employ in the steering and suspension departments, I might change that opinion, but according to some reviewers over here, and technical data that I've seen so far, even the new Mustang is going to be a little sloppy on bends.

Not to say that I dislike American cars simply because they're American, though. Man, saying anything bad about something American stuff is akin to racism these days; you're instantly accused of being anti-American.
I technically currently own an American car, the only difference between this one and the ones I've driven while in America is that it mine was designed and built entirely in Europe. And it sticks to the road like glue and corners on a dime.
European cars also tend to have more efficient engines, not just in terms of fuel but also in terms of power, as do Japanese cars. But having driven a handful of Japanese cars, I feel that they lack any sort of character, and for the most part, the dash feels like it could snap off at any second if you're not careful with it.
Character is an area where American cars beat all, though. But character doesn't help you corner on a winding country road, unfortunately. Otherwise they're generally OK, if a little hard to come across over here.

For a car of its engine size thats good. What size is it by the way?
2.4 liter engine.

BTW, the suspension on the Intrepid is quite nice. You have to buy the handling package, but it's great.

2.4 liter engine.

BTW, the suspension on the Intrepid is quite nice. You have to buy the handling package, but it's great.

2.4 is a decent engine and 30mpg is a good return, my dads old Merc E240 got on average 34mpg from a 2.4L.

The one I drove didn't have jack, as it was a hire car so...but i'll take your word for it.

2.4 is a decent engine and 30mpg is a good return, my dads old Merc E240 got on average 34mpg from a 2.4L.

The one I drove didn't have jack, as it was a hire car so...but i'll take your word for it.

The handling package is much stiffer, has different components, and the 4-wheel disc brakes are larger (as are the wheels and tires).

Of course, they ask for more money...

Really, I ask for a certain minimum of performance, but with the low speed limits here, and the police (who seem to only enforce traffic laws), it's not worth saving up to buy a Ferrari. Not even worth it to have something much faster than an Intrepid.

I love the police here. Their so easily bought up. Just pay them Rm30 (Less than USD10) would suffice. Hah, take that government servants!!

Then again, we have really shitty roads. Only the highways are worth speeding. Imagine going into a pothole at 60km/h can already loosen some screws on your car.

The handling package is much stiffer, has different components, and the 4-wheel disc brakes are larger (as are the wheels and tires).

Of course, they ask for more money...

Really, I ask for a certain minimum of performance, but with the low speed limits here, and the police (who seem to only enforce traffic laws), it's not worth saving up to buy a Ferrari. Not even worth it to have something much faster than an Intrepid.

Cool, after having driven one, if i ever bought one (hypothetically speaking of course) I think that would make a pretty fine car.

As for the speed limits, apart from a few certain sections, most of the stuff I drove on was 60mph...too slow for a country the size of the US.

Cool, after having driven one, if i ever bought one (hypothetically speaking of course) I think that would make a pretty fine car.

As for the speed limits, apart from a few certain sections, most of the stuff I drove on was 60mph...too slow for a country the size of the US.

It's too bad they discontinued the Intrepid. You'll have to buy what it morphed into - a 300.

It's too bad they discontinued the Intrepid. You'll have to buy what it morphed into - a 300.

:( I don't like the 300 from an asthetic perspective to be honest. And the dash isn't as well put together as the Intrepids used to be. It all seems a little tacky for the money it costs.

:( I don't like the 300 from an asthetic perspective to be honest. And the dash isn't as well put together as the Intrepids used to be. It all seems a little tacky for the money it costs.


The 300 and the wagon version the "Magnum" take boxy to the next level. I still dont know if I like either-havent had a chance to drive either.
The hip-hop crowd seems to like them, having seen more than a few with the huge 20'' + spinning chrome wheels.

The 300 and the wagon version the "Magnum" take boxy to the next level. I still dont know if I like either-havent had a chance to drive either.
The hip-hop crowd seems to like them, having seen more than a few with the huge 20'' + spinning chrome wheels.

300 = Brick with wheels :D

As for the hip-hop crowd liking them...one very good reason i don't want one...if its big and trying too hard to make a statement, then its not what I want to drive.

300 = Brick with wheels :D

As for the hip-hop crowd liking them...one very good reason i don't want one...if its big and trying too hard to make a statement, then its not what I want to drive.


I concur. I like a car that doesnt attract a second look.

I concur. I like a car that doesnt attract a second look.

...which spinning 20" rims with shiny crap all over them won't help you do... :D


I just drive an old volvo 440i 1.8 at the moment, cheap, reliable and not gonna get stolen :D

...which spinning 20" rims with shiny crap all over them won't help you do... :D


I just drive an old volvo 440i 1.8 at the moment, cheap, reliable and not gonna get stolen :D


Maybe you could have that ride "pimped"-and get those spinning 20 inch rims and a plasma TV with Xbox. *L*

What you want is a real Mini, not one of these BMW reject jobs. A real mini, clean shell and a 1.6 Civic VTEC motor under the bonnet.

Or a Caterham, the fastest accelerating and decelerating production car in the world.

'A British built sportscar has smashed the production car world record for sprinting to 100mph and back again, leaving Ferraris and Porsches trailing in its wake along a 2-mile runway at Bruntingthorpe Proving Ground, Leicestershire.

The lightweight Caterham Seven R500 evolution, set a new world record time of 10.73 seconds during Autocar Magazine's annual 0-100mph-0 test.

The two-seater Seven raced to 60mph from a standing start in 3.21secs, having hit the 30mph mark in just 1.45secs. With 100mph reached in an incredible 6.92secs, the Caterham stopped a mere 3.6secs later.'

http://www.seriouswheels.com/top-2004-Caterham-Superlight-R500-Evolution.htm (http://)

Maybe you could have that ride "pimped"-and get those spinning 20 inch rims and a plasma TV with Xbox. *L*

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/lachen/laughing-smiley-003.gif

Now that would be a sight...just imagine "pimping" something that looks this bad...

http://www.armiger.ee/picauto/volvo/volvo%20440_90_28900.jpg

It appears I have been beaten to it... :(

http://www.forocoches.com/galeria/data/502/23595Volvo_02.jpg

and

http://home.wxs.nl/~marc.hesselberth/xtreme43.gif

oh dear....

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/lachen/laughing-smiley-003.gif

Now that would be a sight...just imagine "pimping" something that looks this bad...

http://www.armiger.ee/picauto/volvo/volvo%20440_90_28900.jpg

I'm not a huge Volvo fan, but I dont see anything wrong at all with that car-I'd drive it.
I cant stand the whole "pimping" culture- just another way for kids to waste their income. They should wait til the car is paid off before sinking sometimes thousands of dollars into them.

It appears I have been beaten to it... :(

http://www.forocoches.com/galeria/data/502/23595Volvo_02.jpg

and

http://home.wxs.nl/~marc.hesselberth/xtreme43.gif

oh dear....


Come on now-dont you WANT a "whales tail" spoiler on back-so you can barely get into the trunk?

http://racetec.net/vtecmini.htm (http://) Decent minis for sale over the pond!

I'm not a huge Volvo fan, but I dont see anything wrong at all with that car-I'd drive it.
I cant stand the whole "pimping" culture- just another way for kids to waste their income. They should wait til the car is paid off before sinking sometimes thousands of dollars into them.

Its a decent drive too, I'm not gonna do anything other than replace the speakers with some that don't crackle. Its not the best looking car around, but i don't want that until I can afford a little luxury. Besides, it can do 110mph to the best of my knowledge so its fast enough too :D

Come on now-dont you WANT a "whales tail" spoiler on back-so you can barely get into the trunk?

I'll do without cheers :p :D

[QUOTE=Kellarly]Its a decent drive too, I'm not gonna do anything other than replace the speakers with some that don't crackle. Its not the best looking car around, but i don't want that until I can afford a little luxury. Besides, it can do 110mph to the best of my knowledge so its fast enough too :D



check out: www.crutchfield.com They have a good selection and good prices. They also include instructions so the average person can swap out old to new with a minimum of fuss.

check out: www.crutchfield.com They have a good selection and good prices. They also include instructions so the average person can swap out old to new with a minimum of fuss.

Means I have to import it though (I'm from the UK). Besides, I know a few people who have some old, but still good condition, speakers lying about, i'll just have to invest in a new amp and a few bits and pieces then its all good :)

I want an Imprezza WRX STi. :D

I want an Imprezza WRX STi. :D


My brother-in-law has one-the thing is a rocket.