NationStates Jolt Archive

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=598961

Quit whinging at having to pay gasoline prices that are still cheaper than most of the world!

Monday March 21, 2005
International Gasoline Prices

The prices shown are expressed in US dollars and US gallons. These quarterly figures represent averages for the least expensive gasoline available at name-brand retail service stations.

* US - $1.43
* Hong Kong - $5.24
* London, England - $4.83
* Oslo, Norway - $4.38
* Tokyo, Japan - $4.34
* Quito, Ecuador - $.50
* Jakarta, Indonesia - $.52
* Kuwait City, Kuwait - $.76
* Riyadh, Saudi Arabia - $.93
http://www.galtglobalreview.com/world/world_gasoline.html

(It's about $5.00 a gallon down the street.)

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=598961

Quit whinging at having to pay gasoline prices that are still cheaper than most of the world!


http://www.galtglobalreview.com/world/world_gasoline.html

(It's about $5.00 a gallon down the street.)
If we are taking your statistics there the US is only cheeper then 50% of the countries named ... so hardly paying less then "most" of the world according to the quoted stats :p (sorry just picking on that I know we have it good ... hard to remember though when I have to drive 30 miles to school every day (each direction) in a truck :p )

It's about 2 bucks a gallon here.

The poorest people are always the ones hit hardest by rising gas prices. A rich guy driving a Lexus SUV might not have reason to complain, but the dishwasher driving the '83 Toyota hatchback paying 2.25 a gallon might.

The poorest people are always the ones hit hardest by rising gas prices. A rich guy driving a Lexus SUV might not have reason to complain, but the dishwasher driving the '83 Toyota hatchback paying 2.25 a gallon might.
I drive an 88 :p

If we are taking your statistics there the US is only cheeper then 50% of the countries named ... so hardly paying less then "most" of the world according to the quoted stats :p (sorry just picking on that I know we have it good ... hard to remember though when I have to drive 30 miles to school every day (each direction) in a truck :p )

The OPEC nations skew that. Most of the world isn't in OPEC. ;) The Prices for Hong Kong and Tokyo are typical across most of Asia, and I'm pretty sure the Oslo and London prices are around average for Europe.

I'm just glad I don't drive at all and that Osaka has excellent "public" transport (all privately owned).

We are cheaper because of taxes. Other countries base prices are the same. It's a fact. The reason other countries may be higher is because of those governments taxes per liter/gallon are higher.

coughlegalizeethanolcough

The OPEC nations skew that. Most of the world isn't in OPEC. ;) The Prices for Hong Kong and Tokyo are typical across most of Asia, and I'm pretty sure the Oslo and London prices are around average for Europe.

I'm just glad I don't drive at all and that Osaka has excellent "public" transport (all privately owned).
Live on a farm miles from anyone else ... wish public transport was an option :) hell wish driving something more fuel efficent then a 4wd full size was an option lol

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=598961

Quit whinging at having to pay gasoline prices that are still cheaper than most of the world!


http://www.galtglobalreview.com/world/world_gasoline.html

(It's about $5.00 a gallon down the street.)


Gas prices in my area for the cheap stuff is around $2.10 per gallon. would equal out to about .55 per liter

coughlegalizeethanolcough

Where is ethanol illegal? I could convert my engine to it tomorrow if I wanted to operate a still, and much of the gas I buy right now has ethanol in it...

Gas prices in my area for the cheap stuff is around $2.10 per gallon. would equal out to about .55 per liter
Thats nice ... what does that have to do with the arguement? all units are in gallons

"US - $1.43"

January of 2003. Now it's higher than $2 per gallon

Thats nice ... what does that have to do with the arguement? all units are in gallons

That's so the rest of the world can figure out how much a liter cost. Don't be an ass.

Indeed, and ethonol burns cleaner as well. East Baton Rouge Parish gas prices are going up because we failed an EPA test and the are putting ethanol into the gasoline..itas about $2.10 for regular down the street from me at the shell station. The reason that gas prices are higher in many of the places you listed and lower here is ecasue the cities you mentioned have great public transportation. There is no need for cheap gas to stimulate the economy. there is not mu public transportation in most of the US (at least none that is worthwhile, unelss you live in a very large city). Also, with the size of the country, fuel needs to be cheaper so it doesn't put shipping prices through the roof. It costs ~$400 to fill up the tank uf an 18 wheeler. in many cases, the driver pays for that. High prices would inhiit people from doing that job which is a driving force of the American economy.

Where is ethanol illegal? I could convert my engine to it tomorrow if I wanted to operate a still, and much of the gas I buy right now has ethanol in it...

In the US, a still is illegal. Ethanol is classified as Moonshine by the federal government, and yes gasoline in the Us can contain up of somewhere like 25% ethanol. My truck is ready to take up to 85%. I'd llike to see pure ethanol used. as pureethanol is not an approved road fuel it is, de facto, illegal.

That's so the rest of the world can figure out how much a liter cost. Don't be an ass.
Again what does that have to do with anything sense all posted info thus far has been in gallon

(I was genuinly curious I though origionaly you were going to make an arguement off of it but guess not)

coughlegalizeethanolcough

sneezewesneezehavecough

We are cheaper because of taxes. Other countries base prices are the same. It's a fact. The reason other countries may be higher is because of those governments taxes per liter/gallon are higher.

Yep. (Same goes for booze here, although those taxes have dropped. You'd have been amazed at the price a fifth of JDs went for when I first got here...)

legalize ethanol

AFAIK it already is in the US. In fact some form of "reformulated gasoline" (often gasohol) is required in many areas.
Cities of New York, Philadelphia and Hartford are three of the nine cities in which the federal reformulated gasoline program was required for sale starting in 1995.

The states of Massachusetts, Maine, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New Hampshire, New York and New Jersey have joined the Mid-Atlantic states of Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, the District of Columbia and Virginia in requiring the sale of reformulated gasoline in all or parts of each state beginning in 1995.

http://www.ethanol-gec.org/clean/cf12.htm

In the US, a still is illegal. Ethanol is classified as Moonshine by the federal government, and yes gasoline in the Us can contain up of somewhere like 25% ethanol. My truck is ready to take up to 85%. I'd llike to see pure ethanol used. as pureethanol is not an approved road fuel it is, de facto, illegal.

Ethanol is considered moonshine, without a permit. With a permit, you can own and operate a still in the U.S. on private property. I've seen it done a number of times.

The main problem with ethanol is that, supposedly, it's not economically viable - producing it would be more costly and require more energy be burned to produce it than it would itself generate, although I haven't read about methods of production recently.

Ethanol is considered moonshine, without a permit. With a permit, you can own and operate a still in the U.S. on private property. I've seen it done a number of times.

The main problem with ethanol is that, supposedly, it's not economically viable - producing it would be more costly and require more energy be burned to produce it than it would itself generate, although I haven't read about methods of production recently.
There have been some updates from what I have seen for other corn based fuels that produce about the same pollution as growing the corn absorbs … cool stuff but from what I have read not appropriate for something in automobiles from what I could tell was for power plants but its been awhile as well

Also, with the size of the country, fuel needs to be cheaper so it doesn't put shipping prices through the roof. It costs ~$400 to fill up the tank uf an 18 wheeler. in many cases, the driver pays for that. High prices would inhiit people from doing that job which is a driving force of the American economy.

Why freight on the roads. You have a rail system, you have waterways. Both are much cleaner and more cost efficient than hauling an 18 wheeler 2,000 + miles.

There have been some updates from what I have seen for other corn based fuels that produce about the same pollution as growing the corn absorbs … cool stuff but from what I have read not appropriate for something in automobiles from what I could tell was for power plants but its been awhile as well

Yeah, the most recent article I read on the topic was:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/031128.html

If it's become cleaner and cheaper since then, and if we'd still be allowed to produce it ourselves, I'd be all in favor of ethanol as the national standard. I just don't see it as possible for the government to tell the gas companies they were out of business, or at least relegated to producing plastics and paraffin and the like.

Why freight on the roads. You have a rail system, you have waterways. Both are much cleaner and more cost efficient than hauling an 18 wheeler 2,000 + miles.it depends on the distance. Plus there's the task of getting the goods from the factory or farm to the railroad and then from the railroad to the store

I havent paid 1.43 for gas since william jefferson clinton was in the white house.

its like 219 here for the cheapest stuff.

Live on a farm miles from anyone else ... wish public transport was an option :) hell wish driving something more fuel efficent then a 4wd full size was an option lol

Any AWD four banger jap car or any of the AWD European cars, hell even the new AWD Fords, would be more than sufficent for whatever your day to day driving needs are. Not that they'd satisify the hauling requirements, but thats why you have a truck and a car.

Why freight on the roads. You have a rail system, you have waterways. Both are much cleaner and more cost efficient than hauling an 18 wheeler 2,000 + miles.

Because the rail system, waterways and air transport aren't sufficient to meet the demands nor the flexibility required.

prices don't matter, as long as we (americans) can go down the street and readily fill up (without lines like the 70's oil crisis), we will pay whatever you charge us.

Even at its present price, the price of petrol in USA is still at an environmentally irresponsable low rate / l.

Here in Australia, petrol at my nearest Coles/Shell station is 109.9 cents per litre for regular unleaded.It works out to (I think) US$3.25/gallon.

Shoppers at Coles and Woolworths supermarkets get 4c/litre off petrol at the respective service stations. (Coles own the Shell service stations, and Woolworths run their own.)

Just thought this might be useful for comparison purposes.

Any AWD four banger jap car or any of the AWD European cars, hell even the new AWD Fords, would be more than sufficent for whatever your day to day driving needs are. Not that they'd satisify the hauling requirements, but thats why you have a truck and a car.



Because the rail system, waterways and air transport aren't sufficient to meet the demands nor the flexibility required.
Not correct ... I think I mentioned the fact that I live and work on a farm ... :) and I can not afford to buy much less insure both while still geting my masters
And my daly "driving" requirements in minnesota out here are beyind what they can handle also (Difficult to make it through 12 inches of snow when the car is only 6 inches off the ground)

Ive tried ... trust me ... I had a forester for a bit

hard to remember though when I have to drive 30 miles to school every day (each direction) in a truck :p )You don't have to go in a truck do you? Are you taking a herd of cattle to school with you?

You don't have to go in a truck do you? Are you taking a herd of cattle to school with you?
I cant afford a second vehicle not a reliable one ... and one that I possibly COULD afford wont get me there in the winter (again centeral to northern minnesota winters suck specialy being on a farm ... its almost 2 miles by private dirt road till I even hit a tar road)

This link has a copyright of 2001, in 2001 that $1.43 was an adverage price for a gallon of Gas. Keep that in mind... I live in south east Michigan where the auto indusrty will not allow many of public transportation options, such as subways to exist. In the City of Detroit you can easily find a cab, but you are out of luck in the suburbs.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=598961

Quit whinging at having to pay gasoline prices that are still cheaper than most of the world!

http://www.galtglobalreview.com/world/world_gasoline.html

(It's about $5.00 a gallon down the street.)

Last I heard, the only people in the US whining about their gas prices were the rich people in Malibu, who are paying a bit over 3 dollars per gallon.

Based on the Yahoo news story that said

The average retail price for all three grades increased 12.74 cents to $2.13 per gallon between March 4 and March 18, according to survey results released Sunday.

I worked out that they are paying about NZ$0.80 per litre. I really wish I was paying that much for petrol. It's up around the $1.20 mark, and thats 91 (I use 96)

Based on the Yahoo news story that said

I worked out that they are paying about NZ$0.80 per litre. I really wish I was paying that much for petrol. It's up around the $1.20 mark, and thats 91 (I use 96)

In the US, we have 87 octane as the standard, and 93 is usually as high as it goes.

Using 87, it's hard to light a Zippo. I found that putting the Bosch Platinum plugs in my car was a necessity - and it's just a standard car.

You don't have to go in a truck do you? Are you taking a herd of cattle to school with you?

Thats another point. Petrol prices are probably hitting Americans quite hard because of the popularity of SUV's and big trucks.

In the US, we have 87 octane as the standard, and 93 is usually as high as it goes.

Using 87, it's hard to light a Zippo. I found that putting the Bosch Platinum plugs in my car was a necessity - and it's just a standard car.

Here its either 91 or 96, although BP have started selling 98 instead of 96 (and charging extra obviously) which is conveniently left off their price boards. I pulled into one the other day without thinking about it, and the attendent was just about to ask me what I wanted when I saw the side of the pump, was reminded and drove off.

I cant afford a second vehicle not a reliable one ... and one that I possibly COULD afford wont get me there in the winter (again centeral to northern minnesota winters suck specialy being on a farm ... its almost 2 miles by private dirt road till I even hit a tar road)

A quad should be affordable. It would pay for itself almost immediately on fuel savings. And it is a hell of a lot more fun than a truck. (That is unless you mean you need the heating. In which case get out of minnesota!)

People in this country just don't have a clue about perspective when it comes to petrol prices. That fact has been established for years. The other, more significant problem is American dependence upon foreign oil. That has GOT to change somehow, preferrably by a newer, cleaner resource.

People in this country just don't have a clue about perspective when it comes to petrol prices. That fact has been established for years. The other, more significant problem is American dependence upon foreign oil. That has GOT to change somehow, preferrably by a newer, cleaner resource.

I'm all in favor of Dick Cheney's idea.

Build a lot of nuclear power plants. A LOT.

Crack water into hydrogen using the electricity.

i hear alot about how the US pays alot less for gas when compared to the rest of the world, so i am gonna quote Jon Stewart on this one: "We have the most people in the world defending the oil reserves so why shouldn't we get the employee discount?"

I'm all in favor of Dick Cheney's idea.

Build a lot of nuclear power plants. A LOT.

Crack water into hydrogen using the electricity.

Yep.

A quad should be affordable. It would pay for itself almost immediately on fuel savings. And it is a hell of a lot more fun than a truck. (That is unless you mean you need the heating. In which case get out of minnesota!)
Quad bikes are not really designed for the daily haul :-P even if I dident need the heating (and I do) my family owned a few (though traditional quad bikes are not very good for the farm so we went down to a utility machine like the foreman)
Besides I am pretty sure they are not road legal in the US

oh FFS you bloody yanks, you pay like 20 dollars to fill your stinking mega tank, traffic munching off road SUVs, and I'm paying 83 pence a litre which means I pay around 40 quid to fill up my 1.4 litre golf ..... stop complaining, you're fucking up the atmosphere with the amount of shit your cars pump out (what they do?, like 15 miles per gallon, compared to 45 on my golf and 65 if it was diesel) and yet you still whinge, would you like me to cut down the amazon and deliver it to you in match boxes?!?!?!??

i hear alot about how the US pays alot less for gas when compared to the rest of the world, so i am gonna quote Jon Stewart on this one: "We have the most people in the world defending the oil reserves so why shouldn't we get the employee discount?"


In much the same respect that the diamond cartels are "defening" the world supply of diamonds

Why freight on the roads. You have a rail system, you have waterways. Both are much cleaner and more cost efficient than hauling an 18 wheeler 2,000 + miles.

Ummm... no.
1) Lots of places don't have waterways.
2) Railroads are a LOT less efficient than a tractor trailer to a lot of locations.

If you want to haul (say) tons of coal or wheat or something, from West Virginia or Kansas to Baltimore, then sure. And this is how bulk goods are moved

If you want to haul a mixed load and/or smaller load, then heck no.

If you look, those cargo boxes on ships are just lifted and put DIRECTLY onto the train or back of a tractor trailer (TT).
Else, if it's a demi-local shipment, they load the TT by HAND from a warehouse.

You want a train to stop at every town? Not likely.
Then, how to get the goods from the station to the store/warehouse?
Nevermind making sure it isn't rained on/stolen, etc.

It's actually cheaper and faster to move things by TT to most places.

Thats another point. Petrol prices are probably hitting Americans quite hard because of the popularity of SUV's and big trucks.

Which is why I think that any vehicle should have to pay a tax if it averages less than 20/25 miles to the gallon. (This would be most SUVs).

oh FFS you bloody yanks, you pay like 20 dollars to fill your stinking mega tank, traffic munching off road SUVs, and I'm paying 83 pence a litre which means I pay around 40 quid to fill up my 1.4 litre golf ..... stop complaining, you're fucking up the atmosphere with the amount of shit your cars pump out (what they do?, like 15 miles per gallon, compared to 45 on my golf and 65 if it was diesel) and yet you still whinge, would you like me to cut down the amazon and deliver it to you in match boxes?!?!?!??

FYI, I drive a mid-sized 2000 Chrysler. I average 27-33 miles to the gallon.

BTW, I agree with you on SUVs.

However, the US is not the UK: we are larger than Oregon. :D
Therefore you must understand that we drive further.
I used to commute from Bridgeport CT to Hartford CT for work.
How many people do you know that commute from London to Oxford every day?

I havent paid 1.43 for gas since william jefferson clinton was in the white house.

its like 219 here for the cheapest stuff.

The cheapest price I can find here (Bridgeport, Connecticut) is $1.97/gal. The average is $2.07-$2.13

However, the US is not the UK: we are larger than Oregon. :D
Therefore you must understand that we drive further.
I used to commute from Bridgeport CT to Hartford CT for work.


Which is why you'd think cars with better MPG would be more widespread

FYI, I drive a mid-sized 2000 Chrysler. I average 27-33 miles to the gallon.

BTW, I agree with you on SUVs.

However, the US is not the UK: we are larger than Oregon. :D
Therefore you must understand that we drive further.
I used to commute from Bridgeport CT to Hartford CT for work.
How many people do you know that commute from London to Oxford every day?

I believe lots of people. When I was stationed in London with work there were British employees who came to London from among other places (this just sticks in my head as I knew the person well) Nottingham etc. I believe that is probably as far as Oxford if not slightly more.

Personally I drive 70 km each way to work daily. Sure, European countries are smaller than US, but I think commutes are more a less the same in many of our countries (except maybe the very smallest, like Benelux lands etc). I mean how many people commute from California to Florida? So the size comparison is generally not a valid one.

I believe lots of people. When I was stationed in London with work there were British employees who came to London from among other places (this just sticks in my head as I knew the person well) Nottingham etc. I believe that is probably as far as Oxford if not slightly more.

Personally I drive 70 km each way to work daily. Sure, European countries are smaller than US, but I think commutes are more a less the same in many of our countries (except maybe the very smallest, like Benelux lands etc). I mean how many people commute from California to Florida? So the size comparison is generally not a valid one.
i know a bunch of people that commute from NY to Florida during the week. Or the reverse. Of course they fly but that is another issue.

Also think of people that commute from NYC suburbs(including New Jersey and connecticut) on a daily basis. Thats a hike and a half.

The philadephia to NYC commute is a common one, though I think most of those people prefer the train, I know I would. Train has got to save at least an hour a way a day(so 2 hours daily) just in NYC traffic.

I'm all in favor of Dick Cheney's idea.

Build a lot of nuclear power plants. A LOT.

Crack water into hydrogen using the electricity.
Popular mechanics a few months ago featured two new ways of separating hydrogen from water (and another from an alcohol base) they were pretty interesting

I guess the power needed separate the fuel to run the current US passenger vehicles was about the same as current waste heat from power plants.

I will see if I can find the article (I cant get to it online) when I get home

i know a bunch of people that commute from NY to Florida during the week. Or the reverse. Of course they fly but that is another issue.

Also think of people that commute from NYC suburbs(including New Jersey and connecticut) on a daily basis. Thats a hike and a half.

The philadephia to NYC commute is a common one, though I think most of those people prefer the train, I know I would. Train has got to save at least an hour a way a day(so 2 hours daily) just in NYC traffic.

Yeah, sure, with regards to NY - Florida, I should have specified drive. My fault. A lot of my colleagues commute from Stockholm (or wherever they live in effect) to Brussels weekly - which is obviously also air.

As for the 2 hours daily, that's not at all that uncommen in Europe either - horrible as spending that much time daily commuting is wherever you are!

I believe lots of people. When I was stationed in London with work there were British employees who came to London from among other places (this just sticks in my head as I knew the person well) Nottingham etc. I believe that is probably as far as Oxford if not slightly more.

Personally I drive 70 km each way to work daily. Sure, European countries are smaller than US, but I think commutes are more a less the same in many of our countries (except maybe the very smallest, like Benelux lands etc). I mean how many people commute from California to Florida? So the size comparison is generally not a valid one.

The point I was trying to make was that whereas most Euro nations have only the capital and another large city or three that the US has more large cities... I'd be willing to bet that the daily gas consumption of the US isn't that much different from ALL of Europe.

Actually, I knew some people that commuted from West Virginia to DC every morning. And my old boss used to commute from Vermont to New Haven, CT every day. That's a 2 hour drive (at about 75 mph...)

Which is why you'd think cars with better MPG would be more widespread

Exactly. :(

The point I was trying to make was that whereas most Euro nations have only the capital and another large city or three that the US has more large cities... I'd be willing to bet that the daily gas consumption of the US isn't that much different from ALL of Europe.


Maybe so... but USA is roughly the same size as the whole of Europe, so it's not so surprising really.

So, maybe the time is right for some more environmenal actions by the US authorities to curtail petrol consumption.

Maybe so... but USA is roughly the same size as the whole of Europe, so it's not so surprising really.

So, maybe the time is right for some more environmenal actions by the US authorities to curtail petrol consumption.
That or pushing harder for AFV's

Maybe so... but USA is roughly the same size as the whole of Europe, so it's not so surprising really.

So, maybe the time is right for some more environmenal actions by the US authorities to curtail petrol consumption.

The US already has solid emissions standards, most particularly in California.
Consider:
http://www.climatechange.ca.gov/policies/images/es13.jpg

I'm not saying it couldn't be better, but if they'd clamp down on SUVs and large trucks, it'd be a LOT lower.

run engines on vegatable oil... it can and has been done before!

run engines on vegatable oil... it can and has been done before!
Except the cost in energy for vegatable oil is more then petrol :p not scaleable

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=598961

Quit whinging at having to pay gasoline prices that are still cheaper than most of the world!


http://www.galtglobalreview.com/world/world_gasoline.html

(It's about $5.00 a gallon down the street.)



baahahhahaha, more money for canada and even more for alberta HAHAHAHAH

No wonder petrol prices have been rising in Great Briton :D

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tees/4340893.stm

most of the world is addicted to petrol anyway should we put everyone in jail?

Really, people keep bitching about SUV and their poor gas consumption. A couple of points to keep in mind

1) SUVs make up a very small percentage of the vehicle fleet in the US. Regardless of their gas consumtion, they do not impact oil prices or consumption.

2) The largest impact on consuption is the increased economy which spurs vehicle miles traveled..especially business related travel and shipping.

here is an article showing how stupid it is to blame SUVs for anyting. Their market impact is just too small. Pay special attention to the LAST paragraph.

http://www.cato.org/dailys/07-03-04.html

Really, people keep bitching about SUV and their poor gas consumption. A couple of points to keep in mind

1) SUVs make up a very small percentage of the vehicle fleet in the US. Regardless of their gas consumtion, they do not impact oil prices or consumption.

2) The largest impact on consuption is the increased economy which spurs vehicle miles traveled..especially business related travel and shipping.

here is an article showing how stupid it is to blame SUVs for anyting. Their market impact is just too small. Pay special attention to the LAST paragraph.

http://www.cato.org/dailys/07-03-04.html

1 in every 4 vehicles bought in the US are SUVs. It was 1 in 10 back in 94'.
SUVs account for 12% of all vehicles in the US.

http://www.gm.com/automotive/vehicle_shopping/suv_facts/200_choice/3_market_share.html

...If you could sell any car and get 12% of the market, it's a mind-blowing success.

Also: That RAV-4 Cato example is fine. But it isn't a gold standard.
Compare:
Buick Century: 20c/30h mpg
Buick Rainier: 16c/21h mpg

... and that's the same maker! You must admit: SUVs are larger. They are taller, and have more wind resistance. Inherently, they will burn more fuel than a car.

In fact, I challenge anyone to find any SUV that has better fuel economy than a car of the same tonnage. (Must be +/- 5 years in age).

1 in every 4 vehicles bought in the US are SUVs. It was 1 in 10 back in 94'.
SUVs account for 12% of all vehicles in the US.

http://www.gm.com/automotive/vehicle_shopping/suv_facts/200_choice/3_market_share.html

...If you could sell any car and get 12% of the market, it's a mind-blowing success.

Also: That RAV-4 Cato example is fine. But it isn't a gold standard.
Compare:
Buick Century: 20c/30h mpg
Buick Rainier: 16c/21h mpg

... and that's the same maker! You must admit: SUVs are larger. They are taller, and have more wind resistance. Inherently, they will burn more fuel than a car.

In fact, I challenge anyone to find any SUV that has better fuel economy than a car of the same tonnage. (Must be +/- 5 years in age).

I am not denying their current popularity. What I am denying is their overall impact. There are many people that keep cars for years and years.

The article does point the changes in average miles per gallon, and that is the significant factor when considering impact upon oil consumption.

Even if what your article says is true, so what? Is 12% of vehicle replacement going to offset all the other vehicles on the already on road? especially given the percentages of personal vehicle consumption relatve to overall consumption?

Gas is only 1 part of the puzzle. consumer gas consuption is an even smaller part of that. And consumer SUV consumption is a much much smaller part of that.

I'll quit snivelling when I'm damned well ready! :p
I admit that our gas prices are lower than some, but it is still a lot to pay. Eliminating our reliance on oil would be the way to go. :D

I am not denying their current popularity. What I am denying is their overall impact. There are many people that keep cars for years and years.

True, but few people are driving 1974 Gremlins. Or even 1984 Cutlass Supremes.

The article does point the changes in average miles per gallon, and that is the significant factor when considering impact upon oil consumption.

Yes. But the SUV's will always be lower per ton. That's my point: as a vehicle, (along w/ minivans, vans, and non-light trucks), SUVs burn more fuel.

Even if what your article says is true, so what? Is 12% of vehicle replacement going to offset all the other vehicles on the already on road? especially given the percentages of personal vehicle consumption relatve to overall consumption?

Suppose that (on average) all the SUVs get 4mpg less than the average car. It's quite a bit more, but I'll be generous.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004727.html
There are roughly: 133,621,000 vehicles in the US.
That's 16,034,520 SUVs. (12% of 133,621,000)
That's a waste of 64,138,030 mpg. (@ 4gal/ea.)

I call that considerable.

Gas is only 1 part of the puzzle. consumer gas consuption is an even smaller part of that. And consumer SUV consumption is a much much smaller part of that.

I agree it's a piece of a larger puzzle. My point is that SUV owners (and anyone that drives a vehicle that gets below 20-25mpg city) should pay a surcharget/tax. Else the rest of the driving public is subsidizing their inefficiency.

You know those flanges on the gas nozzle? The plastic part over the metal. That's a vapor recollector. That started in the 80s to get back the *1%* of fuel that was wasted as vapor when pumped. SUVs are a significant aspect of American fuel usage.

Better yet, more people in metropolitan areas and suburbs should do what I did.

Move to within 2 miles of your work.

Better yet, more people in metropolitan areas and suburbs should do what I did.

Move to within 2 miles of your work.

If I could afford a mortgage in Manhattan, I would.

If I could afford a mortgage in Manhattan, I would.
I gave up the higher salary in exchange for more free time.
The fuel savings is a small reward in comparison.

I gave up the higher salary in exchange for more free time.
The fuel savings is a small reward in comparison.

If I could find a job near my home that would pay for my mortgage, I would. :(

(You see the bind I'm in...)

I gave up the higher salary in exchange for more free time.
The fuel savings is a small reward in comparison.

Ive done you guys one better

I lifted my office lock stock and barrel and moved to India.

I am paying more for gas, but I am told I have bought a very fuel efficient car(if my damn driver would understand the concept of 5th gear)

given I cant speak the local language(Im south Indian but moved to the North) the only driving I do is to work and back. Call me an eco warrior.

Here is the big problem, my cigarettes are in my car(I only have 2 in the pack with me). a) I have no idea who holds the car keys b) its 4 am..am I dirty enough to wake up someone to run down and get my smokes?

oh FFS you bloody yanks, you pay like 20 dollars to fill your stinking mega tank, traffic munching off road SUVs, and I'm paying 83 pence a litre which means I pay around 40 quid to fill up my 1.4 litre golf ..... stop complaining, you're fucking up the atmosphere with the amount of shit your cars pump out (what they do?, like 15 miles per gallon, compared to 45 on my golf and 65 if it was diesel) and yet you still whinge, would you like me to cut down the amazon and deliver it to you in match boxes?!?!?!??


Give it a rest- you yapping Limeys put more pollution in the air with your cigarette smoking-I'm sorry- fag sucking than we do with our cars.

Monday March 21, 2005
International Gasoline Prices

The prices shown are expressed in US dollars and US gallons. These quarterly figures represent averages for the least expensive gasoline available at name-brand retail service stations.

* US - $1.43
* Hong Kong - $5.24
* London, England - $4.83
* Oslo, Norway - $4.38
* Tokyo, Japan - $4.34
* Quito, Ecuador - $.50
* Jakarta, Indonesia - $.52
* Kuwait City, Kuwait - $.76
* Riyadh, Saudi Arabia - $.93


Gas is cheapest at oil producing nations - of which the US is one. Only half her oil is imported.

Curious that oil is rising though, what with all of that oil we are getting from that illegal Iraq war and all. I wonder if Mr. Moore was really lieing about it afterall? I'll have to think critically about that one... What? OMFG! I'm turning into a conservative!! Gaaaak! Quick! must...get...tofu... ung. (die)

Gas is cheapest at oil producing nations - of which the US is one. Only half her oil is imported.

Curious that oil is rising though, what with all of that oil we are getting from that illegal Iraq war and all. I wonder if Mr. Moore was really lieing about it afterall? I'll have to think critically about that one... What? OMFG! I'm turning into a conservative!! Gaaaak! Quick! must...get...tofu... ung. (die)

You're right, the U.S. didn't profit from the oil in Iraq at all. I was uncomfortable with the idea of going to war as well, but the "oil for blood" sham wasn't one of the reasons. Don't listen to people like Michael Moore or Ann Coulter - left-wing or right-wing, these people use deception, sensationalism, and appeals to emotion just to make money.

Here in Italy it's about $6/gallon, if my math is correct (it is about 1.030 euro per liter, if you fill your tank yourself and choose the cheapest station, it can rise to 1.060 IIRC)

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=598961

Quit whinging at having to pay gasoline prices that are still cheaper than most of the world!


http://www.galtglobalreview.com/world/world_gasoline.html

(It's about $5.00 a gallon down the street.)

Gas where I live is today... $2.249 per gallon! And I have to buy gas for my car to go anywhere, cause their is no public transport, and its way to far to walk.
I live in Alaska, U.S.A.

Here in Italy it's about $6/gallon, if my math is correct (it is about 1.030 euro per liter, if you fill your tank yourself and choose the cheapest station, it can rise to 1.060 IIRC)

WOW!! $6.00 is a lot of money. And I was complaining about $3.00 here in Pennsylvania.

I just heard on the news that gas prices will keep rising for the rest of this week - and then possibly go down, a little, by next week. It's sad because - some people on lower incomes have to choose between food and gas (to get to their jobs).

Again what does that have to do with anything sense all posted info thus far has been in gallon

(I was genuinly curious I though origionaly you were going to make an arguement off of it but guess not)

So it would be easy for europeans to calculate a gallon. Since they like most of the world run off gas being sold in liters!

You're right, the U.S. didn't profit from the oil in Iraq at all. I was uncomfortable with the idea of going to war as well, but the "oil for blood" sham wasn't one of the reasons. Don't listen to people like Michael Moore or Ann Coulter - left-wing or right-wing, these people use deception, sensationalism, and appeals to emotion just to make money.


!00% correct.

Here in Italy it's about $6/gallon, if my math is correct (it is about 1.030 euro per liter, if you fill your tank yourself and choose the cheapest station, it can rise to 1.060 IIRC)
WOW!! $6.00 is a lot of money. And I was complaining about $3.00 here in Pennsylvania.

I just heard on the news that gas prices will keep rising for the rest of this week - and then possibly go down, a little, by next week. It's sad because - some people on lower incomes have to choose between food and gas (to get to their jobs).
Here in Italy prices have been rising since the US announced plans to invade Iraq.
Fortunately, the dollar plummeted, and non producing countries pay oil in dollars... otherwise we'd probably be at $8

I wish I bought shares of oil companies in 2002 :-(

It's definately $2.09 in the Pittsburgh area...I'd pray for $1.40

Here in Italy it's about $6/gallon, if my math is correct (it is about 1.030 euro per liter, if you fill your tank yourself and choose the cheapest station, it can rise to 1.060 IIRC)

1 Gallon = 3.79 Litres

3.79 x 1.030 = 3.9037 Euros/Gallon

1 Euro = $1.3168 USD

3.9037 x 1.3168= $5.14/Gallon in Italy.

1 Gallon = 3.79 Litres

3.79 x 1.030 = 3.9037 Euros/Gallon

1 Euro = $1.3168 USD

3.9037 x 1.3168= $5.14/Gallon in Italy.

Thank you for the correction. This is what I get for going by memory instead of checking numbers.
I remembered 1 gallon = about 4.5 litres (which it isn't) and didn't bother to use the internet to check the ratio.

Also, my memory failed me on gasoline prices. Nowadays you can't find it for 1.030 EUR/gallon, it's more like 1.2

Unfortunately, this comes again to about US$6, even though I'd prefer it to be 5.14 :-(


Oh, BTW, the plural of Euro is still Euro in any language. You should never use "Euros", "Euri", "Eures" or whatever..

Oh, BTW, the plural of Euro is still Euro in any language. You should never use "Euros", "Euri", "Eures" or whatever..
I didn't know that. Thank you. So a 'Euro' is very much like a 'fish'... If only Monty Python were still around...

I didn't know that. Thank you. So a 'Euro' is very much like a 'fish'... If only Monty Python were still around...

I don't know Monty Python enough to understand your reference, unfortunately :-(