NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=7953528
It's happened in Ukraine, and it's trying to happen in Lebanon. It may be starting in Kyrgyzstan. It's too early to judge yet, as I don't know the size, organization, or unity of the opposition. But it may be starting.

So no one cares? Come on, people! This may be big. History is making itself before our eyes.

bump

You people sicken me. You are more concerned about women urinating or Bush bashing or protestor bashing or carrying on with your petty arguements. Has it ever crossed your brains that a nation is gaining its freedom? You guys are disgusting.

This topic has been out here for less than half an hour, and you've bumped it three times already. Does other player's inaction give you the right to slam the entire board? I think not.

Here in the US, it's prime-time Sunday night TV, and a bunch of popular sports events as well. Some of us have lives, too. Get a grip.

~ Frisbeeteria ~
NationStates Moderator Team

Given the violence involved, I'm not that enthusiastic about it. I'm much more interested in what's been going on in Lebenon, which is much more peaceful.

There is an anti government demonstration in a town that we have never heard of before in a country that most people here had no idea that even existed, that may overthrow, or may not, an elected, if suspiciously so, head of state. And you want us to start cheering?

Yes, the spread of democracy into non democratic areas is good. The overthrow of an elected president by what may be a minority opposition, is not necessarily good, is it? I need more information before I can be pleased or saddened.

Yes, such a nice little revolution until the 265th rolls in and raises the Russian flag over Kyrgyzstan again. It's one of the countries that's supposed to be entering into union with Russia coming up at the end of this decade.

Thanks Frizbeeteria! Mindinao has been being over-eager and pushy, a simple once inawhile 'bump' with perhaps a small amount more information is better.

Mindinao, you should understand that Khazakstan is like as far as most of the rest of the world literally and figuratively in the middle of Vukojebina! Yes it is important what happens there to the people, but it is not that important to people in other regions. You are right that it should be important to outsiders, because these places are used as experiments for how to apply tyranny elsewhere, places not in the middle of Vukojebina.

The other thing is that Khazakhstan of today is an example of the worst sort of post-Soviet Gangster State. The people protesting the current 'government' are very likely to be shot down in the streets. I have great respect for the courage of Kazakh people, but if I were your average reporter, well I would be very afraid to go there because if this goes bad it would make Bosnia look like a piknik on a nice day, and I'm talking about the bad parts of that war. In fact how do we know things aren't already there? answer, We don't know. No one is reporting about it.

I think it's good that the late 80's/early 90's is repeating itself again. The corrupt governments are falling one after one. Egypt is coming towards the brink of one of these peaceful revolutions as well.

If only that could happen in Pakistan... Don't get me wrong, as dictators go Musharraf is O.K., but democracy is 100x better.

theres a country called Kyrgyzstan? never knew that...

i would like to know how democratically the government was elected, and if the demonstrators are purveying a majority view or now before i decide how i like this

theres a country called Kyrgyzstan? never knew that...

i would like to know how democratically the government was elected, and if the demonstrators are purveying a majority view or now before i decide how i like this

*slaps Nadkor*

Do you know Uzbekistan? Tajikstan? Turkestan? Kazakhstan?

It's in that neighborhood.

Have to wait and see what developes later, before I make an actauklly opinion or congradulation. BUT, if that article is true then it's nice to see true democracy spread.
LONG LIVE THE ORANGE REVOLUTION OF UKRAINE!

*slaps Nadkor*

Do you know Uzbekistan? Tajikstan? Turkestan? Kazakhstan?

It's in that neighborhood.
yea, i guessed it was a former Soviet republic around about there, but i had never heard of it until now

Kazakhstan?




*embarrased*

I was thinking it was a misspelling of the above.

Anyway, what does "Orange Revolution" mean?

I've seen it in a few other places but there weren't many contextual clues to help me. (I think I have an idea, but have no idea how it squares with 'orange')

*embarrased*

I was thinking it was a misspelling of the above.

Anyway, what does "Orange Revolution" mean?

I've seen it in a few other places but there weren't many contextual clues to help me. (I think I have an idea, but have no idea how it squares with 'orange')

Well, in Ukraine there was a peaceful uprising against the corrupt government which had faked election results. The color party of the uprisings leader, Victor Yuschenko(who was also the "defeated" oponent), is orange, and for a month the Central Square of Kiev was full of Yuschenko supporters, who were all wearing orange. Eventually, the opposition got their wish of getting a fair recount, and Yuschenko won.

Its always good to see non-violent or minimally-violent revolutions taking place.

Sort of like Georgia?

*embarrased*

I was thinking it was a misspelling of the above.

Anyway, what does "Orange Revolution" mean?

I've seen it in a few other places but there weren't many contextual clues to help me. (I think I have an idea, but have no idea how it squares with 'orange')

Orange was for Mr. Yushenko's campaign color. All his supporters wore something or other orange.

http://freewebs.com/samizdat/

I put Orange Revolution Updates here pretty often. Not as often as I should but what do you want? I'm a student.

Well, in Ukraine there was a peaceful uprising against the corrupt government which had faked election results. The color party of the uprisings leader, Victor Yuschenko(who was also the "defeated" oponent), is orange, and for a month the Central Square of Kiev was full of Yuschenko supporters, who were all wearing orange. Eventually, the opposition got their wish of getting a fair recount, and Yuschenko won.
Not quite right. They didn't do a recount, they had another election. The first election was obviously and balantly rigged. From what I remember, in one area that was pro-Yanukovich more votes were cast than people, and strangely enough he won by something like 90%.
Wouldn't it be awesome if this way of changing corrupt governments caught on around the World? People peacefully protesting until their voices are heard. Bush, Cheney and Rumsfield would probably have aneurisms.

bump

So no one cares? Come on, people! This may be big. History is making itself before our eyes.
I agree. We are lucky to live in extremely interesting times.

I hope that this will lead to a democratic revolution in Kyrgyzstan, but let's not let optimism take over; this may be the beginning of a civil war.

I agree. We are lucky to live in extremely interesting times.

I hope that this will lead to a democratic revolution in Kyrgyzstan, but let's not let optimism take over; this may be the beginning of a civil war.
Perhaps. In fact, now that I think about it, it may have implications for Operatiion Enduring Freedom. The US and South Korea jointly operate a base in Bishkek. It is a logistical base for coalition troops iin Afghanistan, and is a field hospital. If fighting breaks out, that base may need to relocate, and there aren't too many airports in Central Asia that can handle a C-130 plane.
Still, the threat of civil war is overhyped. It didn't happen in the Ukraine, and it probably won't happen here.

There is an anti government demonstration in a town that we have never heard of before in a country that most people here had no idea that even existed, that may overthrow, or may not, an elected, if suspiciously so, head of state. And you want us to start cheering?

Yes. For one, it is in an area that is absolutely vital to international interests.

Yes, such a nice little revolution until the 265th rolls in and raises the Russian flag over Kyrgyzstan again. It's one of the countries that's supposed to be entering into union with Russia coming up at the end of this decade.
A.) It's more of a civil overthrow than a revolution.
B.) Kyrgyzstan isn't even geographically adjacent to Russia. Why take interest in it?
C.) Kyrgyzstan's Russians have mostly moved back to Russia. It's hard to use that excuse, anymore.

Yes. For one, it is in an area that is absolutely vital to international interests.

Even more reason to worry rather than cheer. If it is vital to international interests (whose you don't make clear), then civil unrest is not necessarily a good thing for those interests, is it?

I suppose I should turn down the cynicism a little and admit that a fairly elected government ought to be better than a corrupt and unfairly elected one. Good luck to them.

Even more reason to worry rather than cheer. If it is vital to international interests (whose you don't make clear), then civil unrest is not necessarily a good thing for those interests, is it?

Rule # 1 in politics: never ask what "interests" are. That being said, they are of vital security and economic importance. Economically, it is not so much a loss as a potential gain that is at stake. There may be large natural gas reserves there, and several unexploited minerals.
More important, however, is security. If Kyrgyzstan becomes a free market democracy, then so do the other countries. This domino effect is happening all over the world. Also, if something really goes wrong there, Afghanistan will be in jeopardy, as a northern air corridor is not available to the coalition other than through Bishkek.

The Kyrgyzstan thing doesn't look like 'Orange revolution' at all. If by that you mean what happened in Ukraine. The people in Ukraine weren't a mob in a rampage...as seems to be the case in Kyrgyzstan. Quite the contrary, the 'named' revolutions seem to be peaceful ones. And why dub all the 'good' that happens with the same name? There have been plenty of revolutions... orange-, velvet-, carnation..., you name it revolutions... this Kyrgyzstan one just seems to be a dumbass revolt.

Edit: mental note: don't post when you are tired and tipsy...

The Kyrgyzstan thing doesn't look like 'Orange revolution' at all. If by that you mean what happened in Ukraine. The people in Ukraine weren't a mob in a rampage...as seems to be the case in Kyrgyzstan. Quite the contrary, the 'named' revolutions seem to be peaceful ones. And why dub all the 'good' that happens with the same name? There have been plenty of revolutions... orange-, velvet-, carnation..., you name it revolutions... this Kyrgyzstan one just seems to be a dumbass revolt.

Edit: mental note: don't post when you are tired and tipsy...
Actually, I think the opposition's color is yellow.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=607796
Not a good sign.

Rule # 1 in politics: never ask what "interests" are. That being said, they are of vital security and economic importance. Economically, it is not so much a loss as a potential gain that is at stake. There may be large natural gas reserves there, and several unexploited minerals.
More important, however, is security. If Kyrgyzstan becomes a free market democracy, then so do the other countries. This domino effect is happening all over the world. Also, if something really goes wrong there, Afghanistan will be in jeopardy, as a northern air corridor is not available to the coalition other than through Bishkek.

Rule #1 in ethics. If they will not disclose their interests, these are not going to be ethically justifiable ones.

However, form the reporting I saw today on BBC world, it does not look good at the moment there. Link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4375083.stm)

Rule #1 in ethics. If they will not disclose their interests, these are not going to be ethically justifiable ones.

However, form the reporting I saw today on BBC world, it does not look good at the moment there. Link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4375083.stm)
It may be that, like in Ukraine or Georgia, the security forces have no will to act. In fact, as in Ukraine, the Kyrgyz opposition may have formed alliances with the security forces.