NationStates Jolt Archive

Many people quote cliches like "it used to be better". Well did it?
In the last couple of decades, did the world grow more extreme? Please motivate your opinion.
As a historian (not of contemporary times, but still) I'd be interested in hearing other people's thoughts on the subject. Because in my opinion things never take a turn for the worst (or for the good), as they are subjectively and post actum applied. In my opinion, things just evolve because they were historically prone to do so. What makes up the context of change is the determining factor, I think - and is my professional object of study.

But what do YOU think? Did it used to be better? What has changed? And why has it changed?

Many people quote cliches like "it used to be better". Well did it?

In the last couple of decades, did the world grow more extreme? Please motivate your opinion.

But what do YOU think? Did it used to be better? What has changed? And why has it changed?
"Better" is a very subjective term. I suspect that what we are seeing today on the international scene is a realignment after the disruptions of WWII and The Cold War which will ultimately result in the creation of three power centers which will cooperate with each other depending upon their preceptions of self-interest and the balance of power between them: The European Union, China and surrounding nations, and The United States of America with its allies.

This period is somewhat disruptive as would be any period of readjustment. If it is "worse," it's only a temporary "worse."

The civilized world is growing less and less extreme and polarized while the barbaric countries are becoming moreso.

"Better" is a very subjective term. I suspect that what we are seeing today on the international scene is a realignment after the disruptions of WWII and The Cold War which will ultimately result in the creation of three power centers which will cooperate with each other depending upon their preceptions of self-interest and the balance of power between them: The European Union, China and surrounding nations, and The United States of America with its allies.

Sounds a bit Orwellian. ;)

Every older generation complains how bad the modern times are and how great the good ol' days were. Its nothing new

People have been polarized over one thing or another for as long as history has been recorded. Disagreeing, violently or civilly, is just what we do. I must say it does irk me when people say that "America is more divided today then it ever was before," that assessment just doesn't seem to hold water when addressing ANY nation that has had a Civil War at any point in it's history.

Every older generation complains how bad the modern times are and how great the good ol' days were. Its nothing new

Indeed this is nothing new, it is the same old Tradition vs. Progress debate. On the Progress extreme civilization would have ran, tripped, and slid 10 feet on a field of jagged glass face first within about four generations. On the Tradition extreme the first step would simply never have been taken. While people have in the past and in the present blindly unbraced an extreme of this, a nice balance of the two has allowed humanities' line of civilization evolve nicely over the past 10,000ish years and most likely will continue to do so (despite the claims of some that the world is on the verge of ending of we don't do this or the other thing.)

No, the press is growing more opinionated, and therefore they paint those they dislike as more extreme. No actual movement away from the centre has occurred involving the majority of people.

The civilized world is growing less and less extreme and polarized while the barbaric countries are becoming moreso.

"Civilized"and "barbaric" are not modern terms.

There are no "barbaric" countries. Every country has civilization, cities, towns, etc. There are "developed" and "undeveloped". The First World(Canada, The U.S., Japan, Australia, New Zealand, and western europe) and the Second world(former Warsaw Pact) are developed, while the third world (everything else, I.E. Latin American, China, Africa,etc) is still developing. Now, some Third World countries are more developed than others(Brasil/Brazil, China, India, Egypt, South Africa, Argentina), but they still aren't up to par with the "big boys".

Things are better today than they have ever been. People are living longer.

Things are better today than they have ever been. People are living longer.

True, but that's equaled out by the fact that there are about 1 zillion civil wars going on, not to mention a few countries in anarchy, South Asia is on the brink of nuclear war...

"Civilized"and "barbaric" are not modern terms.

There are no "barbaric" countries. Every country has civilization, cities, towns, etc. There are "developed" and "undeveloped". The First World(Canada, The U.S., Japan, Australia, New Zealand, and western europe) and the Second world(former Warsaw Pact) are developed, while the third world (everything else, I.E. Latin American, China, Africa,etc) is still developing. Now, some Third World countries are more developed than others(Brasil/Brazil, China, India, Egypt, South Africa, Argentina), but they still aren't up to par with the "big boys".


I'm not talking about the level of development. I'm talking about the national mentality.

I'm not talking about the level of development. I'm talking about the national mentality.

But no one is "barbaric". Everyone is civilized!

Tell me one nation that isn't civilized. ONE.

True, but that's equaled out by the fact that there are about 1 zillion civil wars going on, not to mention a few countries in anarchy, South Asia is on the brink of nuclear war...

South Asia's not on the brink of nuclear war. A few years ago it was, but not at the moment.

As for the civil wars and chaos, that's just the normal state of affairs, and has been for a very long time.

True, but that's equaled out by the fact that there are about 1 zillion civil wars going on, not to mention a few countries in anarchy, South Asia is on the brink of nuclear war...

Apart from the nuclear war bit, which is an exaggeration anyway, the difference between today and 100 years ago is that we get to know what is hapening while it is still going on. Media overload.
You, IIRC live in central America (Panama), why does what is happening in South Asia matter to you? A century ago you would have found out about the events after they happened, no need to stress or worry about it, as it is in the past. Today, however the whole world seems to want to do something about what other parts of the world are doing. Sometimes this is good, Tsunami, famine relief etc,) other times it is unjustified interference, and as such places cultures into conflict. This generates extremists, on all sides.

Conclusion. There are more extremists, even though they are still a very small fraction of the worlds population, and these generate news, which generates hostility, which causes intolerance, which breeds extremism. It is a vicious circle, with strong positive feedback characteristics.

What to do.
1. Worry about your life, your world, not the other side of the globe, except to help those in real need, not political need.
2. Be selective in your news consumption.

Apart from the nuclear war bit, which is an exaggeration anyway, the difference between today and 100 years ago is that we get to know what is hapening while it is still going on. Media overload.
You, IIRC live in central America (Panama), why does what is happening in South Asia matter to you? A century ago you would have found out about the events after they happened, no need to stress or worry about it, as it is in the past. Today, however the whole world seems to want to do something about what other parts of the world are doing. Sometimes this is good, Tsunami, famine relief etc,) other times it is unjustified interference, and as such places cultures into conflict. This generates extremists, on all sides.

Conclusion. There are more extremists, even though they are still a very small fraction of the worlds population, and these generate news, which generates hostility, which causes intolerance, which breeds extremism. It is a vicious circle, with strong positive feedback characteristics.

What to do.
1. Worry about your life, your world, not the other side of the globe, except to help those in real need, not political need.
2. Be selective in your news consumption.


In response to your "what to do"

1. I AM worrying about my life. I, for one, am a "global citizen" so to speak. If there is a problem somewhere, it is going to affect me. This is a new globalized world, and EVERYTHING affects you. Not to mention, I have lived in South Asia for a large portion of my life(I have lived in Bangadesh and Pakistan, and I am either moving to India or Bangladesh(again!) next), and it affects me very much.
2. I am. I only watch important news (Iraq war, Lebanon protests, Israel-Palestine), and refrain from paying too much attention to Michael Jackson, etc.

Every older generation complains how bad the modern times are and how great the good ol' days were. Its nothing new
Oh? And just where, pray tell, did I do that??? :headbang:

In response to your "what to do"

1. I AM worrying about my life. I, for one, am a "global citizen" so to speak. If there is a problem somewhere, it is going to affect me. This is a new globalized world, and EVERYTHING affects you. Not to mention, I have lived in South Asia for a large portion of my life(I have lived in Bangadesh and Pakistan, and I am either moving to India or Bangladesh(again!) next), and it affects me very much.
2. I am. I only watch important news (Iraq war, Lebanon protests, Israel-Palestine), and refrain from paying too much attention to Michael Jackson, etc.

OK, as you are going there, the situation in South Asia is important for you.
I was intending, but it was not clear I admit, to depersonalise the you. You, in the what to do section, meaning each person reading, not specifically The Lightning Star.
However, I will ask why you TLS, why you think that what is happening in the middle east is of any importance to someone living in central america. What is happening in Venezuela or Mexico, should be of interest. What is happening in the USA or Argentina, might have some effect. What is hapening right now in Tunisia, or Angola? Do you know? Do you care? If not, then why do you care about what is hapening in the middle east?

This is not an attack on you personally. It is just taking your statement as a vehicle to express a general opinion of mine. People should care about what affects them. Man made tragedies on the other side of the world are horrific but unless you are actually going to do something about it, do not start posturing and shouting about the percieved injustice. If you are going to do something, make sure that it is what the people who are suffering want. Don't presume that you know what they want, you probably do not.

OK, as you are going there, the situation in South Asia is important for you.
I was intending, but it was not clear I admit, to depersonalise the you. You, in the what to do section, meaning each person reading, not specifically The Lightning Star.
However, I will ask why you TLS, why you think that what is happening in the middle east is of any importance to someone living in central america. What is happening in Venezuela or Mexico, should be of interest. What is happening in the USA or Argentina, might have some effect. What is hapening right now in Tunisia, or Angola? Do you know? Do you care? If not, then why do you care about what is hapening in the middle east?

This is not an attack on you personally. It is just taking your statement as a vehicle to express a general opinion of mine. People should care about what affects them. Man made tragedies on the other side of the world are horrific but unless you are actually going to do something about it, do not start posturing and shouting about the percieved injustice. If you are going to do something, make sure that it is what the people who are suffering want. Don't presume that you know what they want, you probably do not.


I agree that you have a point, but I am not your average person living in Panama. I focus on everything(although I only go in-depth on a few things), because I know that it will affect me. I could get posted anywhere. I could get posted in the Congo, Thailand, or even Mongolia! I need to focus on everything.

I do agree, however, that the Average person should focus on things closer to home.

But no one is "barbaric". Everyone is civilized!

Tell me one nation that isn't civilized. ONE.


For starters belligerent countries
and countries that execute people
and torture people
and countries with lousy societies.

some examples would be:
Russia
China
The United States
Israel
North Korea
Saudi Arabia
Syria
Iran
Iraq

For starters belligerent countries
and countries that execute people
and torture people
and countries with lousy societies.

some examples would be:
Russia
China
The United States
Israel
North Korea
Saudi Arabia
Syria
Iran
Iraq

You forgot:
Algeria
Andorra
Argentina
Australia
Austria
Azerbaijan
Bahrain
Bangladesh
Belarus
Belgium
Belize
Benin
Bolivia
Bosnia and Herzergovina
Brazil
Bulgaria
Canada
Cambodia
Cameroon
Cayman Islands
Chile
China
Colombia
Congo (Zaire)
Costa Rica
Croatia
Cuba
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Denmark
Ecuador
Egypt
El Salvador
Estonia
Ethiopia
Finland
France
Gambia
Georgia
Germany
Ghana
Greece
Guatemala
Haiti
Honduras
Hong Kong
Hungary
Iceland
India
Indonesia
Iran
Iraq
Ireland
Israel
Italy
Jamaica
Japan
Jordan
Kazakhstan
Kenya
Korea (North)
Korea (South)
Kuwait
Kyrgyzstan
Latvia
Lebanon
Liechtenstein
Libya
Lithuania
Macedonia
Malaysia
Maldives
Malta
Mexico
Moldova
Monaco
Mongolia
Morocco
Netherlands
New Zealand
Nicaragua
Nigeria
Norway
Pakistan
Panama
Papua New Guinea
Paraguay
Peru
Philippines
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Russian Federation
Saudi Arabia
Senegal
Singapore
Slovak Republic
Slovenia
South Africa
Spain
Sri Lanka
Sweden
Switzerland
Syria
Taiwan
Tajikistan
Tanzania
Thailand
Tunisia
Turkey
Uganda
Ukraine
United Arab Emirates
United Kingdom
Uruguay
Uzbekistan
Venezuela
Vietnam
Virgin Islands
Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro)
Zambia
Zimbabwe

No country is perfect. You just have to take the ones that are the better ones, and then go with that.

You forgot:
Algeria
*BIG SNIP*
Uzbekistan
Venezuela
Vietnam
Virgin Islands
Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro)
Zambia
Zimbabwe

No country is perfect. You just have to take the ones that are the better ones, and then go with that.

So we should all move to the Vatican City. It is not on your list, so it must be civilized. :D

So we should all move to the Vatican City. It is not on your list, so it must be civilized. :D

It is.

Unfortunatly, you have to speak Latin. And wear funny clothes. And your leader is an old guy who can barely talk.

The civilized world is growing less and less extreme and polarized while the barbaric countries are becoming moreso.

Excuse me, but if you include America as part of the civilized world you are incorrect. This county has become more and more polarized. Witness elections where they are so close that some are even (gasp) decided by the Supremes. Or perhaps one could remember the Scope Monkey trial - 1930 - that is being debated all over again! :rolleyes:

So we should all move to the Vatican City. It is not on your list, so it must be civilized. :D

I hear it has one of the highest crime rates in the world and is the true "gangsta's paradise"

So we should all move to the Vatican City. It is not on your list, so it must be civilized. :D
San Marino isn't in the list either, so that would be ok too.

One of the things I found funny at the end of the Cold War was that during the Cold War, there were those who believed that there were Communist agents in the US, and they were stealing secrets and planning sabotage and getting ready to overthrow the US at a signal. We were to suspect our neighbors and each other in the name of patriotism. It all sounded silly, and a lot of people in Hollywood were of the mind that it was all bullshit.

Then the Cold War ended, and it turns out that most of what was considered laughable paranoia was true. We were our own worst enemy - our own people sold secrets to the Soviet Union on a regular basis.

Now when I hear Hollywood's advice, I change the channel. They didn't know anything then, and they know even less now.