NationStates Jolt Archive

Why is it important for some gays to announce that they are gay. Or coming out of the closet! I'm gay! We must have special rights for gays! Who really cares. Why are gay issues centers of some gay thinking. You are the same as us heterosexuals. You just happen to like the same sex. Other than that you have all the same aspirations and social whims as the rest of society. What do I care? Really I do get tired of the special interest that some gays crave. Am I missing something here? Or am I just being to over sensitive to all the hype?

I would say that they are very self-conscious of their sexuality, and it can cause them to overreact.

Yeah! You gays are just heterosexual!

Yeah, let's overanalyze everything why don't we?

(sigh) I don't know why. I don't care why. Just let them be. If they want to confirm in themselves that they are gay...let them.

because homosexuals face discrimination and bigotry almost on a level heterosexuals can only imagine

so 'gay pride' is something that will happen until homosexuals are fully accepted as no different as a member of society to heterosexuals

because homosexuals face discrimination and bigotry almost on a level heterosexuals can only imagine

so 'gay pride' is something that will happen until homosexuals are fully accepted as no different as a member of society to heterosexuals Took the words right out of my mouth... er fingers.

There are several reasons, one of which is the homophobia of much of america and the climate of opression it creates for homosexials.

Another is the fact that gay people are not afforded the same civil rights as straight people with regards to their relationships.

Gay people are through being kept down and expected to feel shame about who they are, this is essentially a backlash that will help to normalize society for gay people.

because homosexuals face discrimination and bigotry almost on a level heterosexuals can only imagine

so 'gay pride' is something that will happen until homosexuals are fully accepted as no different as a member of society to heterosexuals


I personally don't see the discrimination and bigotry you say there is. I suppose there is some. I won't say there isn't any. But in my Bar's/clubs that I own. They come in dressed in drag and have a good time with the regular customers. I personally never had to break up a fight over this. Or have I known of a situation where there was a problem because of someone being "gay". I deal with the public on a continous basis. I just don't see this as being a big problem.

There are several reasons, one of which is the homophobia of much of america and the climate of opression it creates for homosexials.

Another is the fact that gay people are not afforded the same civil rights as straight people with regards to their relationships.

Gay people are through being kept down and expected to feel shame about who they are, this is essentially a backlash that will help to normalize society for gay people.


Well the relationship validity problem. Well marriage is a "Church" business. If a church wants to allow it then fine. Other than that the US government should change Federal "marriage" to Federal "civil unions". Allow anyone to marry any other type of person. This may be coming down the road I think.

I personally don't see the discrimination and bigotry you say there is. I suppose there is some. I won't say there isn't any. But in my Bar's/clubs that I own. They come in dressed in drag and have a good time with the regular customers. I personally never had to break up a fight over this. Or have I known of a situation where there was a problem because of someone being "gay". I deal with the public on a continous basis. I just don't see this as being a big problem.

Sadly, it DOES go on. Gay bashings, the way people cringe at he thought of seeing a gay couple together, and things like the use of the word gay as an insult.

How about not being able to marry? Not being able to adopt or use fertility methods? Not being considered next of kin if your partner is in hospital?

I think what really needs to happen is a mental change, that is a dropping of heteronormative ideas, and I guess that's what gay pride is all about fighting.

I personally don't see the discrimination and bigotry you say there is. I suppose there is some. I won't say there isn't any. But in my Bar's/clubs that I own. They come in dressed in drag and have a good time with the regular customers. I personally never had to break up a fight over this. Or have I known of a situation where there was a problem because of someone being "gay". I deal with the public on a continous basis. I just don't see this as being a big problem.

I see a lot of it. I live in a very conservative area, and I am skiddish about admitting my openness towards homosexuality, so I couldn't imagine what someone who was openly homosexual would go through. I guarantee that 75% of my friends would look at someone differently if they found out they were gay.

Hell, I wouldn't even admit an attraction to an unattractive girl around my friends, and I doubt you would either. It's sad and shallow, but it is true.

Heterosexual pride!

Heterosexuals proclaim their heterosexuality a lot more than homosexuals proclaim their homosexuality.

It's just that heterosexuals only notice when gay people do it.

I suppose some (not all) gay people are flamboyant about their sexuality as a reaction to the constant prodding from some heteros.

I see a lot of it. I live in a very conservative area, and I am skiddish about admitting my openness towards homosexuality, so I couldn't imagine what someone who was openly homosexual would go through. I guarantee that 75% of my friends would look at someone differently if they found out they were gay.

Hell, I wouldn't even admit an attraction to an unattractive girl around my friends, and I doubt you would either. It's sad and shallow, but it is true.


Well fair enough. I live in Washington State. It is fairly liberal and people here tolerate just about anything. Guess If I moved to the countryside I may see something different.

Heterosexuals proclaim their heterosexuality a lot more than homosexuals proclaim their homosexuality.

It's just that heterosexuals only notice when gay people do it.

That is very true.

White males get blamed for all the worlds problems! We should also have special breaks in things, like tax breaksand get 16 paid days off work for "white male pride" gatherings.

Hell, I wouldn't even admit an attraction to an unattractive girl around my friends, and I doubt you would either. It's sad and shallow, but it is true.
If you feel so constrained as to what you can say to your friends, are they really your friends at all?

Well fair enough. I live in Washington State. It is fairly liberal and people here tolerate just about anything. Guess If I moved to the countryside I may see something different.

There is also a big difference between tolerating and accepting.

There is also a big difference between tolerating and accepting.
YES! I so agree. I HATE the word tolerance. It's implies such a shallow commitment... It's like "we'll be nice to those minorities to their face, but when we get home we'll bitch about them..."

Well the relationship validity problem. Well marriage is a "Church" business. If a church wants to allow it then fine. Other than that the US government should change Federal "marriage" to Federal "civil unions". Allow anyone to marry any other type of person. This may be coming down the road I think.


When marriage is tied to any sort of recognition by the government and especially to special government rights and when divorce is an issue of governments and the courts it is in no way whatosever a "church" issue.

Either *everyone* gets 'marriage' or *everyone* gets 'civil unions,' it is an equal protection issue.

There is no reason in the world why any two consenting adults who profess to love one another not be accorded all the rights of marriage.

Remember, as gay marriage is an issue dealing with equal protection under law for couples, no new rights - such as might imply validity for polygamy - are created.

If you feel so constrained as to what you can say to your friends, are they really your friends at all?

Yes, they are. My good friends know quite a few things about me that I wouldn't want the general public to know.

Are you saying that you have never made out or had sex with a girl that you didn't want anybody to know about?

YES! I so agree. I HATE the word tolerance. It's implies such a shallow commitment... It's like "we'll be nice to those minorities to their face, but when we get home we'll bitch about them..."

It's a catch word for politically correct bigots.

"Your lifestyle really changes our opinion of you to the point that we don't want to associate with you, but you go ahead and do what you want."

EDIT: You "tolerate" neo-nazis, you have to accept homosexuals. Otherwise you are still a bigot.

There is also a big difference between tolerating and accepting.

agree, although tolerance is a step in direction of acceptance.

It's a shame that the tactics that many of the gay-rights activists choose to use these days are so counterproductive. Does anyone out there really think that the in-your-face "I'm gay - Acknowlege me!" attitude is really going to win anyone new over to the cause? Quite the opposite. People don't like being treated that way.

And then there's the whole "anyone who has a different opinion fears and hates gays" strategy. That's a good one... Outright attack the people you need to win over. What do people do when attacked? They fight back. Again, counter-productive.

I can't say I support gay rights, but I don't hate gays. I do hate activists. Pretty much all activists.

I can't say I support gay rights, but I don't hate gays. I do hate activists. Pretty much all activists.
Um... err... so people should just put up and shut up?

Um... err... so people should just put up and shut up?

I really don't know where you are going with that question....

It's a shame that the tactics that many of the gay-rights activists choose to use these days are so counterproductive. Does anyone out there really think that the in-your-face "I'm gay - Acknowlege me!" attitude is really going to win anyone new over to the cause? Quite the opposite. People don't like being treated that way.

Actually it will work with time. The only way to combat bigotry is through education and understanding. For every bigot who gets mad when a homosexual flaunts his sexuality, a more open minded person learns to accept them.

And then there's the whole "anyone who has a different opinion fears and hates gays" strategy. That's a good one... Outright attack the people you need to win over. What do people do when attacked? They fight back. Again, counter-productive.

It is true. The people they need to win over do fear and hate gays. Like I said before, for all of those bigots who get offended and defensive, maybe there will be someone who does realize that they should accept homosexuals.

I can't say I support gay rights, but I don't hate gays. I do hate activists. Pretty much all activists.

What "gay rights" don't you support, and how can you make that statement and say that you don't hate gays.

I posted this before, but I'll post it again. You have to accept homosexuals, otherwise you are still a bigot.

Why is it important for some gays to announce that they are gay. Or coming out of the closet! I'm gay! We must have special rights for gays! Who really cares. Why are gay issues centers of some gay thinking. You are the same as us heterosexuals. You just happen to like the same sex. Other than that you have all the same aspirations and social whims as the rest of society. What do I care? Really I do get tired of the special interest that some gays crave. Am I missing something here? Or am I just being to over sensitive to all the hype?
You are wrong. Gays do not want *special* rights. They want *equal* rights. This claim that gays want to be treated as if they are something better is completely contrary to what gays actually want. And pride parades etc. happen to make the general population aware of the fact that gays exist, in not so small numbers, that they are people like everyone else and deserve the same rights. That is all. Once gays have same rights as heterosexuals, I think the whole pride parade stuff will disappear or at least change focus. Since this however is never going to happen, you'll have to live with gays being loud and proud while fighting for equal treatment and against discrimination. It is in the hands of the heterosexuals to end these "annoying" parades by making law equal for all, as is guaranteed in the constitution, but which is almost nowhere applied equally to all.

I really don't know where you are going with that question....
Well activists fight to change things for disadvantaged people, and yu hate them, so how do things get changed.

Ein Deutscher']You are wrong. Gays do not want *special* rights. They want *equal* rights. This claim that gays want to be treated as if they are something better is completely contrary to what gays actually want. And pride parades etc. happen to make the general population aware of the fact that gays exist, in not so small numbers, that they are people like everyone else and deserve the same rights. That is all. Once gays have same rights as heterosexuals, I think the whole pride parade stuff will disappear or at least change focus. Since this however is never going to happen, you'll have to live with gays being loud and proud while fighting for equal treatment and against discrimination. It is in the hands of the heterosexuals to end these "annoying" parades by making law equal for all, as is guaranteed in the constitution, but which is almost nowhere applied equally to all.


Can you give me a news article or link to a case in the US in the past month for example. That identifies that gays don't have equal rights? Outside of the right to be married. Which I happen to think you should be able to legally be with anyone you want.

I don't have my head in the sand either. I am very well connected with the community. I know alot about social issues. I hear it discussed on almost a daily basis because of my business.

Can you give me a news article or link to a case in the US in the past month for example. That identifies that gays don't have equal rights? Outside of the right to be married. Which I happen to think you should be able to legally be with anyone you want.

I don't have my head in the sand either. I am very well connected with the community. I know alot about social issues. I hear it discussed on almost a daily basis because of my business.
You gave yourself the most prominent example - marriage. Then there are tax laws which treat gays differently to heterosexuals (at least in Germany). I.e. same sex unions are possible, but they have a load of duties and almost no rights associated with them.

Another important thing would be to show people their fellow citizens, who might be gay, so they finally accept that homosexuality is not something unnatural and bad. Until this has been achieved, gays will be treated and considered 2nd rate citizens. This is not acceptable.

Actually it will work with time. The only way to combat bigotry is through education and understanding. For every bigot who gets mad when a homosexual flaunts his sexuality, a more open minded person learns to accept them.



It is true. The people they need to win over do fear and hate gays. Like I said before, for all of those bigots who get offended and defensive, maybe there will be someone who does realize that they should accept homosexuals.



What "gay rights" don't you support, and how can you make that statement and say that you don't hate gays.

I posted this before, but I'll post it again. You have to accept homosexuals, otherwise you are still a bigot.

You are as blind as the rest of the activists if you really think your methods are best. I feel sorry for your cause because it's only hindered by these attitudes.

There's no "gay rights" I support OR oppose. I'm fine with equal rights for everybody. But there needs to be some balance between where the rights of the religious in our society and the gays conflict. I certainly don't claim to have the answer to that.

You have to accept that there are people who believe that homosexuality is a sin and that they have the right to that belief. And if you don't think the religious have rights, you are as much of a bigot as you claim they are.

You are as blind as the rest of the activists if you really think your methods are best. I feel sorry for your cause because it's only hindered by these attitudes.

There's no "gay rights" I support OR oppose. I'm fine with equal rights for everybody. But there needs to be some balance between where the rights of the religious in our society and the gays conflict. I certainly don't claim to have the answer to that.

You have to accept that they are people who believe that homosexuality is a sin and that they have the right to that belief. And if you don't think the religious have rights, you are as much of a bigot as you claim they are.
The religious can believe whatever they want. But it should not influence the law in any form.

Ein Deutscher']The religious can believe whatever they want. But it should not influence the law in any form.

Unless that law is interfering with their rights to believe their creed or raise their children as they see fit.

If the only adverse effect of others excercising their rights is "offense" then your contention is comepletely invalid.

Religious people may not believe that gay relationships are "valid," but where this does material harm to homosexuals, gay marriage has no effect in the lives of religious people who oppose it other than to offend them.

People have a right to be offended by things, they do not have a right to stamp out things that might offend them, especially if doing so does actual wrong to others.

Unless that law is interfering with their rights to believe their creed or raise their children as they see fit.
The law does not touch on religion. And until religion is violating human rights, I have nothing against it. But where religion is blatantly violating human rights or where it goes against the constitution of a nation, that is where my "tolerance" ends.

Ein Deutscher'] Then there are tax laws which treat gays differently to heterosexuals (at least in Germany). I.e. same sex unions are possible, but they have a load of duties and almost no rights associated with them.

.


If that is the case that is blatant discrimination. Why hasn't this been corrected in Germany. To me that is outrageous.

People have a right to be offended by things, they do not have a right to stamp out things that might offend them....

Agreed. But remember it goes both ways!

Unless that law is interfering with their rights to believe their creed or raise their children as they see fit.


People dont have the right to exclude black people from their schools and places of business just because they "dont want their children to think being black is the same as being white." People are free to believe their creed but they do not have the right to harm others by practicing it.

When gay civil rights are realized, people will still have every right to preach whatever they want to their children.

Just as racism against blacks is still alive and well today.

If that is the case that is blatant discrimination. Why hasn't this been corrected in Germany. To me that is outrageous.
The more liberal parties are working on it, but for some reason it's a slow process. There's a strong "christian" lobby in Germany with 2 large parties who have the word "Christian" in their name and who oppose pretty much everything that makes gays equal to heterosexuals, especially in tax law.

Why is it important for some gays to announce that they are gay. Or coming out of the closet! I'm gay! We must have special rights for gays! Who really cares. Why are gay issues centers of some gay thinking. You are the same as us heterosexuals. You just happen to like the same sex. Other than that you have all the same aspirations and social whims as the rest of society. What do I care? Really I do get tired of the special interest that some gays crave. Am I missing something here? Or am I just being to over sensitive to all the hype?

Coming out is a very important psychological event for many gays. Further, why don't you have to celebrate your heterosexuality? Because you haven't been persecuted. You haven't been treated as a second class citizen. You don't run the risk of being beaten and killed when you tell people you are straight.

Further, gays don't want special rights. Since when was equality special?

Agreed. But remember it goes both ways!

Yes it does, gay people do not have the right to prevent heterosexual marriage and heterosexuals do not have the right to prevent gay marriage.

It is an equal protection issue both ways.

You are as blind as the rest of the activists if you really think your methods are best. I feel sorry for your cause because it's only hindered by these attitudes.

I am not an activist, I have never marched for gay rights, I don't even have any homosexual friends (although I know a few through acquaintance).

What I do know, is that you have to make yourself known to gain acceptance. If you don't you get left behind.

Non-drinkers get beaten over the head by beer commercials in this country and I have yet to see a thread about that on here. And I will be damned if beer commercials aren't effective.

But there needs to be some balance between where the rights of the religious in our society and the gays conflict.

What do you mean by that statement.

You have to accept that they are people who believe that homosexuality is a sin and that they have the right to that belief. And if you don't think the religious have rights, you are as much of a bigot as you claim they are.

I do believe in religious rights, I just think religious rights end at the doorstep of your own house and your own church. Take any religious beliefs outside of those places and you should be prepared to handle the people who don't live like you.

I personally don't see the discrimination and bigotry you say there is. I suppose there is some. I won't say there isn't any. But in my Bar's/clubs that I own. They come in dressed in drag and have a good time with the regular customers. I personally never had to break up a fight over this. Or have I known of a situation where there was a problem because of someone being "gay". I deal with the public on a continous basis. I just don't see this as being a big problem.


Try living in the shoes of a gay person for a week. . . nay, a day. You will learn what we go through. Some areas are better than others. I live in Mississippi though--let me assure you taht I face prejudice and fear on a daily basis. Just having to listen to people tell gay jokes or talk about fags is scary. Add to the that many gays have to hide for so long from friends and family--because of the fear of being ostracized, kicked out, or attacked by their loved ones. It happens all too often I am afraid. I have several friends its happened to. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Ein Deutscher']You are wrong. Gays do not want *special* rights. They want *equal* rights. This claim that gays want to be treated as if they are something better is completely contrary to what gays actually want. And pride parades etc. happen to make the general population aware of the fact that gays exist, in not so small numbers, that they are people like everyone else and deserve the same rights. That is all. Once gays have same rights as heterosexuals, I think the whole pride parade stuff will disappear or at least change focus. Since this however is never going to happen, you'll have to live with gays being loud and proud while fighting for equal treatment and against discrimination. It is in the hands of the heterosexuals to end these "annoying" parades by making law equal for all, as is guaranteed in the constitution, but which is almost nowhere applied equally to all.

Although both are important, I am inclined to believe that homosexuals are more concerned with the acceptance of society than the acceptance of government.

Once homosexuals are accepted by society, "gay rights" becomes a non-issue.

Try living in the shoes of a gay person for a week. . . nay, a day. You will learn what we go through. Some areas are better than others. I live in Mississippi though--let me assure you taht I face prejudice and fear on a daily basis. Just having to listen to people tell gay jokes or talk about fags is scary. Add to the that many gays have to hide for so long from friends and family--because of the fear of being ostracized, kicked out, or attacked by their loved ones. It happens all too often I am afraid. I have several friends its happened to. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.


Actually I have a gay cousin. I spent nearly a month with him when I was younger. Most of my family had alienated him because of his prefference. It was a very eye opening experience for someone that was only 20. Unfortunately he has Aids and is having to go through that hell. So I do have some type of perspective. But could you say that some of the negatives are from being to oversensitive?

Unless that law is interfering with their rights to believe their creed or raise their children as they see fit.

Exactly how does having equal rights and access to legal protections for gays (such as marriage) change the way a religious person raises their kids?

I can't say I support gay rights, but I don't hate gays. I do hate activists. Pretty much all activists.


It seems you have the great good fortune of having been born a white heterosexual christian male.

People dont have the right to exclude black people from their schools and places of business just because they "dont want their children to think being black is the same as being white." People are free to believe their creed but they do not have the right to harm others by practicing it.

When gay civil rights are realized, people will still have every right to preach whatever they want to their children.

Just as racism against blacks is still alive and well today.

I pretty much agree... But let's not forget racism to every other race out there. It may have different severity and impact, but you can't tell me that blacks look at, say Italians, the same way they see other blacks.

I believe as long as different ethnic (or however else you chose to define) cultures exist in society we will have some level of racism/descriminination. It's only logical if you are going to try and differentiate yourself - The original definition of descriminate really just means to be able to tell the difference between things.

Actually I have a gay cousin. I spent nearly a month with him when I was younger. Most of my family had alienated him because of his prefference. It was a very eye opening experience for someone that was only 20. Unfortunately he has Aids and is having to go through that hell. So I do have some type of perspective. But could you say that some of the negatives are from being to oversensitive?


Oversensitive? I've been called a fag by people at school. I had one guy come up to me and demand a blow job or he would beat me down. I had a cousin tell me that I couldn't see his children any more because he was scared I would molest them. If similiar things were said to other minorities in this country, it would be considered justified for them to commence the beat down, but when it happens to me and I say that I refuse to accept being treated as a second class citizen, I am told that I am oversensitive?

Although both are important, I am inclined to believe that homosexuals are more concerned with the acceptance of society than the acceptance of government.

Once homosexuals are accepted by society, "gay rights" becomes a non-issue.
I think "gay rights" will be easier to implement than society changing to completely accept gays. It has been indoctrinated into many people - especially by the church - to hate gays. Society is probably going to change after gays have been made equal before the law, after they see that this does in no way influence their own lives.

Although both are important, I am inclined to believe that homosexuals are more concerned with the acceptance of society than the acceptance of government.

Once homosexuals are accepted by society, "gay rights" becomes a non-issue.

Perhaps they should seek less flamboyant ways to demonstrate? You didn't see african-americans flamboyantly dressing up and such when they went to demand equal rights. lose the leather and dress normally if you want people to actually *listen* to your opinion. that way the gay stereotype doesn't proliferate. if you want to piss people off on the other hand, then I say flesh out the leather and chains... not going to help you politically though.

Oversensitive? I've been called a fag by people at school. I had one guy come up to me and demand a blow job or he would beat me down. I had a cousin tell me that I couldn't see his children any more because he was scared I would molest them. If similiar things were said to other minorities in this country, it would be considered justified for them to commence the beat down, but when it happens to me and I say that I refuse to accept being treated as a second class citizen, I am told that I am oversensitive?


Well in those cases you just identified. Those are bad. I can agree with that. What I was meaning was boderline issues. Where you "think" someone might be discriminating when nothing has been said.

I pretty much agree... But let's not forget racism to every other race out there. It may have different severity and impact, but you can't tell me that blacks look at, say Italians, the same way they see other blacks.

I believe as long as different ethnic (or however else you chose to define) cultures exist in society we will have some level of racism/descriminination. It's only logical if you are going to try and differentiate yourself - The original definition of descriminate really just means to be able to tell the difference between things.


I assume the brand of 'racism' aimed at homosexual will not abate for quite some time in the US, but it is not a justification for homosexuals to be denied their civil rights.

Oversensitive? I've been called a fag by people at school. I had one guy come up to me and demand a blow job or he would beat me down. I had a cousin tell me that I couldn't see his children any more because he was scared I would molest them. If similiar things were said to other minorities in this country, it would be considered justified for them to commence the beat down, but when it happens to me and I say that I refuse to accept being treated as a second class citizen, I am told that I am oversensitive?

Kids are stupid and your cousin is retarded. Point out to him that heterosexuals molest children as well, and tell him that he might as well keep straights away from them as well (that means including himself).

Perhaps they should seek less flamboyant ways to demonstrate? You didn't see african-americans flamboyantly dressing up and such when they went to demand equal rights. lose the leather and dress normally if you want people to actually *listen* to your opinion. that way the gay stereotype doesn't proliferate. if you want to piss people off on the other hand, then I say flesh out the leather and chains... not going to help you politically though.
Those are Fetish groups. The stereotypical gay is a misconception. I for one (and all of my gay friends) look just as straight as any other young man. I have no desire to look or act like a woman :eek:

Non-drinkers get beaten over the head by beer commercials in this country and I have yet to see a thread about that on here. And I will be damned if beer commercials aren't effective.


You don't really think that's a valid comparisson do you? I have yet to see the commercial that outright seriously insults the person who doesn't drink beer... Or accuses someone who choses another drink of "hating and fearing" beer!

Well in those cases you just identified. Those are bad. I can agree with that. What I was meaning was boderline issues. Where you "think" someone might be discriminating when nothing has been said.


Isn't everyone like that to some point? When you are used to being attacked, I agree sometimes you rush to defend. That's one of the things about maturing--you realize it and apologize. However, you also realize that when other people do it, there must be just be a valid reason for why they reacted the way that they did.

You don't really think that's a valid comparisson do you? I have to see the commercial that outright seriously insults the person who doesn't drink beer... Or accuses someone who choses another drink of "hating and fearing" beer!

I was referring to your statement that gay's "in your face" sort of activism doesn't work.

Ein Deutscher']Those are Fetish groups. The stereotypical gay is a misconception. I for one (and all of my gay friends) look just as straight as any other young man. I have no desire to look or act like a woman :eek:

Then tell those fetish groups to STFU so the normal gays to demonstrate! Another tip: never, OH GOD NEVER, have Rosie o'donnell speak on your behalf. ;)

Then tell those fetish groups to STFU so the normal gays to demonstrate! Another tip: never, OH GOD NEVER, have Rosie o'donnell speak on your behalf. ;)
Well they may be Fetish groups, but we'd be bigots if we demanded equality and in the same sentence forbid other members of the non-heterosexual culture to speak out and also demand equality :p

Perhaps they should seek less flamboyant ways to demonstrate? You didn't see african-americans flamboyantly dressing up and such when they went to demand equal rights. lose the leather and dress normally if you want people to actually *listen* to your opinion. that way the gay stereotype doesn't proliferate. if you want to piss people off on the other hand, then I say flesh out the leather and chains... not going to help you politically though.
Eventually we should progress to the point where a flamboyant gay pride parade is just as accepted as a decadent Mardi Gras celebration in New Orleans where scantily dressed, drunken heterosexuals frolic around making a mess with their empty beer bottles and other trash, where the girls flash their breasts in public at horny guys, and where no one says anything when couples make out passionately.

Eventually we should progress to the point where a flamboyant gay pride parade is just as accepted as a decadent Mardi Gras celebration in New Orleans where scantily dressed, drunken heterosexuals frolic around making a mess with their empty beer bottles and other trash, where the girls flash their breasts in public at horny guys, and where no one says anything when couples make out passionately.

Well from what I have seen of Mardi Gras. There seems to be alot of gays involved.

Well from what I have seen of Mardi Gras. There seems to be alot of gays involved.
That's true. I enjoy watching the photo galleries of that each year :P

Ein Deutscher']Well they may be Fetish groups, but we'd be bigots if we demanded equality and in the same sentence forbid other members of the non-heterosexual culture to speak out and also demand equality :p


This is completely off topic, but Ein Deutscher, I had an [NS] appended to my name a couple days ago and discovered that if you log out (can be done from the main jolt page) you can then log manually into the forums as your old name. (i assume you had 'ein deutscher' before the [ns] reset your post count &c.)

If you access the forums through nationstates.com however, it will set the cookie back to your [ns] name so it is perhaps advisable to bookmark general (which is forum number 1227 in case you care) and access it that way.

This is completely off topic, but Ein Deutscher, I had an [NS] appended to my name a couple days ago and discovered that if you log out (can be done from the main jolt page) you can then log manually into the forums as your old name. (i assume you had 'ein deutscher' before the [ns] reset your post count &c.)

If you access the forums through nationstates.com however, it will set the cookie back to your [ns] name so it is perhaps advisable to bookmark general (which is forum number 1227 in case you care) and access it that way.
Oh I have no problem with the [NS]. If anyone links that to national socialism I can bitch back :P

Ein Deutscher']That's true. I enjoy watching the photo galleries of that each year :P

Me too!

Well from what I have seen of Mardi Gras. There seems to be alot of gays involved.
Do you have a problem with that, while having no problem with heterosexuals who are allowed to behave even more flamboyantly and lewdly out in public in the same party?

Eventually we should progress to the point where a flamboyant gay pride parade is just as accepted as a decadent Mardi Gras celebration in New Orleans where scantily dressed, drunken heterosexuals frolic around making a mess with their empty beer bottles and other trash, where the girls flash their breasts in public at horny guys, and where no one says anything when couples make out passionately.

Point.

....this is a topic i've been feircly dealing with for over a year now. I'm only 16, but last year in school (softmore year) when the gays in our school had a 'day of silence' to protest the treatment of gays or something, I tried to make a 'day of truth' to protest something about them lieing to everyone or some crap like that. I live in Rhode Island, a state littered with liberals, so all the school administrators tried getting me in trouble. Later that year I passed a petition around to make an 'Anti-gay Alliance' group after school (we have a gay-alliance) and I got something like 88 signatures. When I gave the petition to the principal, he called and told my mommy on me. After that, I put out a 'news letter' kind of thing. It was just me telling everyone what happened. So far this year, (junior year) I have already put out 2 more of those papers, and i'm planing on another. I never really hated gay people, it was just because after the first thing, they were bastards to me and some even threatened my life. So now, I say to everyone that I hate fags, but I really don't. So, in a way, the gays forced this. If they had just let me have my 'day of truth' thing, then they wouldent have to hear from me anymore......

because homosexuals face discrimination and bigotry almost on a level heterosexuals can only imagine

so 'gay pride' is something that will happen until homosexuals are fully accepted as no different as a member of society to heterosexuals
You damn right they do! And as long as I am alive, they will face discrimination and bigotry. Disgusting sex habits should not be allowed. Sex is for reproduction, nothing else.

It is my personal belief that we must kill all homosexuals to prevent this disease from spreading to our pure children. They are unnatural and a scourge to society, we must stop them in theri tracks! :eek: :sniper:

You damn right they do! And as long as I am alive, they will face discrimination and bigotry. Disgusting sex habits should not be allowed. Sex is for reproduction, nothing else.
Woah momma. If the whole world thought like you, we'd die from overcrowding real quickly. And think about the tons of fun everyone would miss out on.

You damn right they do! And as long as I am alive, they will face discrimination and bigotry. Disgusting sex habits should not be allowed. Sex is for reproduction, nothing else.
youve never had sex other than to produce a child?

....this is a topic i've been feircly dealing with for over a year now. I'm only 16, but last year in school (softmore year) when the gays in our school had a 'day of silence' to protest the treatment of gays or something, I tried to make a 'day of truth' to protest something about them lieing to everyone or some crap like that. I live in Rhode Island, a state littered with liberals, so all the school administrators tried getting me in trouble. Later that year I passed a petition around to make an 'Anti-gay Alliance' group after school (we have a gay-alliance) and I got something like 88 signatures. When I gave the petition to the principal, he called and told my mommy on me. After that, I put out a 'news letter' kind of thing. It was just me telling everyone what happened. So far this year, (junior year) I have already put out 2 more of those papers, and i'm planing on another. I never really hated gay people, it was just because after the first thing, they were bastards to me and some even threatened my life. So now, I say to everyone that I hate fags, but I really don't. So, in a way, the gays forced this. If they had just let me have my 'day of truth' thing, then they wouldent have to hear from me anymore......

See why gays make such a big deal out of it?

It is my personal belief that we must kill all homosexuals to prevent this disease from spreading to our pure children. They are unnatural and a scourge to society, we must stop them in theri tracks! :eek: :sniper:
so you want to kill me?

It is my personal belief that we must kill all homosexuals to prevent this disease from spreading to our pure children. They are unnatural and a scourge to society, we must stop them in theri tracks! :eek: :sniper:
Here's hoping you were joking.
*prays hard, regardless of lack of belief in a god*

It is my personal belief that we must kill all homosexuals to prevent this disease from spreading to our pure children. They are unnatural and a scourge to society, we must stop them in theri tracks! :eek: :sniper:
Sir, you should see a doctor and have your head examined for vacuume anomalies.

well, its true i'm quite the extemist, and well everything else you can put -ist after

well, its true i'm quite the extemist, and well everything else you can put -ist after
A Nazist? Because the Nazis thought exactly like you do about the jews.

well not nazi my racism only goes as far as my preferences in women

Heres how I understand marriage. The government gives tax breaks to people who want to get married, for 1 reason. The government assumes that that couple will produce children that, 18 years down the road, the government will be able to tax as an adult. With gays, theres no real point to marrige. The only thing fags...I mean <I>gays<I> really need is a contract saying they can make decisions as a next of kin. Other than that....

Why is it important for some gays to announce that they are gay. Or coming out of the closet! I'm gay! We must have special rights for gays! Who really cares. Why are gay issues centers of some gay thinking. You are the same as us heterosexuals. You just happen to like the same sex. Other than that you have all the same aspirations and social whims as the rest of society. What do I care? Really I do get tired of the special interest that some gays crave. Am I missing something here? Or am I just being to over sensitive to all the hype?

I know, being a homo myself I am sick of my friends focussing there whole personality on the fact they;re gay. I mean, get a life.

Heres how I understand marriage. The government gives tax breaks to people who want to get married, for 1 reason. The government assumes that that couple will produce children that, 18 years down the road, the government will be able to tax as an adult. With gays, theres no real point to marrige. The only thing fags...I mean <I>gays<I> really need is a contract saying they can make decisions as a next of kin. Other than that....

Then should people sign a contract to agree to have kids, otherwise their marriage is annulled?

Why not just allow homosexuals to adopt?

Heres how I understand marriage. The government gives tax breaks to people who want to get married, for 1 reason. The government assumes that that couple will produce children that, 18 years down the road, the government will be able to tax as an adult. With gays, theres no real point to marrige. The only thing fags...I mean <I>gays<I> really need is a contract saying they can make decisions as a next of kin. Other than that....
Gay marriage would make this sort of behiavior acceptable. imagine if their were gays hitting on and attempting to poison our children who can be influenced to become one of these freaks!

Gay marriage would make this sort of behiavior acceptable. imagine if their were gays hitting on and attempting to poison our children who can be influenced to become one of these freaks!
You seem to be confusing homosexuals with paedophiles.

No don't you get it. If kids grow up surrounded by this behavior they will see a as socially acceptable and be more likely to turn into one of those unnatural freaks themselves. (Gays and Pedophiles, but especially gays)

No don't you get it. If kids grow up surrounded by this behavior they will see a as socially acceptable and be more likely to turn into one of those unnatural freaks themselves. (Gays and Pedophiles, but especially gays)

Quit trolling.

Why is it important for some gays to announce that they are gay. Or coming out of the closet! I'm gay! We must have special rights for gays! Who really cares. Why are gay issues centers of some gay thinking. You are the same as us heterosexuals. You just happen to like the same sex. Other than that you have all the same aspirations and social whims as the rest of society. What do I care? Really I do get tired of the special interest that some gays crave. Am I missing something here? Or am I just being to over sensitive to all the hype?

<sigh>

In addition to the many fine responses made already, let me add the following observations.

1. How much "hype" do heterosexuals get? Think about it. How much media is devoted to family and romance with heterosexuality assumed? How much advertising? How many government programs and benefits -- like tax breaks? How many rights and privileges are reserved to married couples (which has been reserved for heterosexuals only)?

2. In the same vein, how often do your heterosexual acquaintances discuss their love life (or lack thereof), their significant other (or lack their of), or their sexual interests or exploits (such as commenting on someone he or she finds attractive)? Do your heterosexual acquaintances display photographs of their significant others or seek to introduce their signficant others to other people? Guess what: Homosexuals have similar proclivities. Get over it.

3. Homosexuality is actively discriminated against. Not just historically, but presently. The Supreme Court only recently ruled that laws criminalizing same-sex sex were unconstitutional. Most states still have such laws on their books. Homosexuals face discrimination all the time in many facets of their lives -- not the least of which is that many people still seek to beat up or kill them just for being homosexual. You've seen some of these ignorant attitudes in this thread.

It is more than a bit reasonable for a group that is discriminated against to seek to end that discrimination. It is also more than a bit reasonable to seek to call attention to your strife. And individuals should be praised (not scorned) for declaring their pride in who they are in the face of hatred.

4. Leave the phrase "special rights" out of your vocabulary. Homosexuals seek no such thing. "Special rights" are a hobgoblin of your imagination. Seeking to end discrimination -- seeking to be treated as equals -- is not seeking "special rights." Its seeking human rights.

the gays in our school had a 'day of silence' to protest the treatment of gays or something, I tried to make a 'day of truth' to protest something about them lieing to everyone or some crap like that.

Perhaps you should understand what the Day of Silence is about before you protest it. It is a symbolic day to show support for the many, many gay men and woman that must live their lives in silence out of fear. Many gay people must endure discrimination and hatred that would reduce most straight people to nothing if they were confronted with it so later in life. So many gay people think this is just the status quo and live miserably because of it. The Day of Silence is to show our support for them.

Further, if you want a counter statement, that's fine, but perhaps you should define it. Exactly what would that "crap like that" be? you could have a purpose, but all you come across as is a histrionic teenager seeking attention. Now I don't know the rights and wrongs of your situation, so feel free to clarify and I will listen.

well, its true i'm quite the extemist, and well everything else you can put -ist after

So you are also a leftist, a pacifist, and an anarchist?

Heres how I understand marriage. The government gives tax breaks to people who want to get married, for 1 reason. The government assumes that that couple will produce children that, 18 years down the road, the government will be able to tax as an adult. With gays, theres no real point to marrige. The only thing fags...I mean <I>gays<I> really need is a contract saying they can make decisions as a next of kin. Other than that....

And the right to visit one another in the hospital. And the right to make end of life decisions for one another. And the right to own a house together. And the right to be on one another's insurance. And about 1000 other rights identified by the GAO that have nothing to do with taxes.

And then there is that little matter of dignity as human beings who should have equal rights under the law. . . .

<sigh>

In addition to the many fine responses made already, let me add the following observations.

1. How much "hype" do heterosexuals get? Think about it. How much media is devoted to family and romance with heterosexuality assumed? How much advertising? How many government programs and benefits -- like tax breaks? How many rights and privileges are reserved to married couples (which has been reserved for heterosexuals only)?

2. In the same vein, how often do your heterosexual acquaintances discuss their love life (or lack thereof), their significant other (or lack their of), or their sexual interests or exploits (such as commenting on someone he or she finds attractive)? Do your heterosexual acquaintances display photographs of their significant others or seek to introduce their signficant others to other people? Guess what: Homosexuals have similar proclivities. Get over it.

3. Homosexuality is actively discriminated against. Not just historically, but presently. The Supreme Court only recently ruled that laws criminalizing same-sex sex were unconstitutional. Most states still have such laws on their books. Homosexuals face discrimination all the time in many facets of their lives -- not the least of which is that many people still seek to beat up or kill them just for being homosexual. You've seen some of these ignorant attitudes in this thread.

It is more than a bit reasonable for a group that is discriminated against to seek to end that discrimination. It is also more than a bit reasonable to seek to call attention to your strife. And individuals should be praised (not scorned) for declaring their pride in who they are in the face of hatred.

4. Leave the phrase "special rights" out of your vocabulary. Homosexuals seek no such thing. "Special rights" are a hobgoblin of your imagination. Seeking to end discrimination -- seeking to be treated as equals -- is not seeking "special rights." Its seeking human rights.

Well spoken *applauds* :fluffle:

Ein Deutscher']Well spoken *applauds* :fluffle:

Thank you. You're a fabulous audience. Thank you. Thank you very much. :fluffle:

And the right to visit one another in the hospital. And the right to make end of life decisions for one another. And the right to own a house together. And the right to be on one another's insurance. And about 1000 other rights identified by the GAO that have nothing to do with taxes.

And then there is that little matter of dignity as human beings who should have equal rights under the law. . . .

Well said, Pracus.

But I read it before you deleted it Eichen. . .it made me smile.

Much love to Pracus and Cat Tribe. :fluffle: And get the new troll off here.

But I read it before you deleted it Eichen. . .it made me smile.It was a little harsh, even from me, wasn't it? :p

It was a little harsh, even from me, wasn't it? :p

Sometimes the truth hurts.

The day of silence? Now I've heard everything.
Human natures is what it is - if you are different in some way, some people will treat you differently. It's just how it is.

Now I want to read it too. Maybe you'll TG it to me. Eh, Eichen?

The day of silence? Now I've heard everything.
Human natures is what it is - if you are different in some way, some people will treat you differently. It's just how it is.

Oh brother. It's not about being treated differently. It's about living in fear. It's worrying that your parents will kick you out or attack you if they find out. Its worry that you will suffer physical violence. It's worrying that you will lose all your friends. This isn't different treatment, this is ABUSE. If you really care so little about your fellow man, then it makes a major statement about the level of compassion you have.

Now I want to read it too. Maybe you'll TG it to me. Eh, Eichen?

Ooooh, me too. I want to read it. You should post it again.

I can't say I care whether someone is gay or not. If they are? Fine for them, doesn't bother me.

I don't care as long as people don't start with their "this is the only right way" shit (which comes usually from heterosexual religious zealots with no life).

You know honestly, I think the gays acting all flamboyant and flaming, are doing nothing more than giving the bigots ammo. I mean thats all your doing, just giving them a reason to discriminate agaisnt. I mean you set yourself apart from the rest of the heard, and when you do that, your goinng to draw attention! The best way to get accepted is to flly under the radar and be as NORMAL as possible. Now normality to me is you know dressing normal, having normal converstation, etc. I mean you can hold your lover hand, or kiss him/her, thats normal! However dancing out in the street in a very revealing outfit, and riding a paper-machae dick, is going to draw attention!

I told him: Basically, just to annoy douchebags like yourself.

You know honestly, I think the gays acting all flamboyant and flaming, are doing nothing more than giving the bigots ammo. I mean thats all your doing, just giving them a reason to discriminate agaisnt. I mean you set yourself apart from the rest of the heard, and when you do that, your goinng to draw attention! The best way to get accepted is to flly under the radar and be as NORMAL as possible. Now normality to me is you know dressing normal, having normal converstation, etc. I mean you can hold your lover hand, or kiss him/her, thats normal! However dancing out in the street in a very revealing outfit, and riding a paper-machae dick, is going to draw attention!

You do realize that vast majority of gays are "under the radar" which would be why you stereotype us all as being flamboyant. But why should everyone have to act the same? Why shouldn't people be free to be and express themselves as they are--not as some artifical societal construct says they should be. And this isn't about acceptance--at least not for me--its about equality under the law.

Most gays I know are perfectly "straight acting." It just happens that my best friend is-shall we say- obvious.

You know honestly, I think the gays acting all flamboyant and flaming, are doing nothing more than giving the bigots ammo.I'd agree that anyone, straight or gay, acting as a stereotype to reaffirm their own sexuality is lame. I think straight guys are probably worse than gays at this, though.
I mean thats all your doing, just giving them a reason to discriminate agaisnt. I mean you set yourself apart from the rest of the heard, and when you do that, your goinng to draw attention! The best way to get accepted is to flly under the radar and be as NORMAL as possible.
Wow. Are you seriously this ignorant?

Now normality to me is you know dressing normal, having normal converstation, etc. I mean you can hold your lover hand, or kiss him/her, thats normal! However dancing out in the street in a very revealing outfit, and riding a paper-machae dick, is going to draw attention!I'm with you on this.This is never beneficial, although I'm sure the guy is thuroughly enjoying the ride. :p Parades that focus on the kinky, in lieu of political statement aren't really changing anyone's mind for the better.

But again, were you for real on that one sentence? If so, you sound like you think "normal" is an admirable trait. Not to me. Average is unexceptional.

Seems to me the best way to be "normal", whatever that is, would be to do nothing at all with your life. Just surrender to your personal comfort zone, and never dare to dream. Sounds mind-numbing, and spirit-crushing to me.

You do realize that vast majority of gays are "under the radar" which would be why you stereotype us all as being flamboyant. But why should everyone have to act the same? Why shouldn't people be free to be and express themselves as they are--not as some artifical societal construct says they should be. And this isn't about acceptance--at least not for me--its about equality under the law.

Look, the point is, in order to be accepted by society, you have to show them that your just like them. The only diffrence is that you prefer to go into #2 instead of #1. My RA at my coillege is gay. Did he dress in revealing outift, nope. Did he ride a paper mache dick around campus, nope. He just dressed normal, went to class, and took part in clubs. Just like everyone else. I'll be honest, hes a cool guy, I like hanging around with him, and I accept his choice. Now this is in the South! Its rare to get accepted in the south unless your a white hetrosexual christian male, but somehow we was able to do it. He did it by just being "normal" and flying under the radar.

FYI: Yes the entire campus DOES know about his homosexuality, espically since he organized and held a very well thought out discussion about homosexuality. This discussion was just student talking, listening etc. Just like any other discussion about stuff.

I'd agree that anyone, straight or gay, acting as a stereotype to reaffirm their own sexuality is lame. I think straight guys are probably worse than gays at this, though.

Wow. Are you seriously this ignorant?

I'm with you on this.This is never beneficial, although I'm sure the guy is thuroughly enjoying the ride. :p Parades that focus on the kinky, in lieu of political statement aren't really changing anyone's mind for the better.

But again, were you for real on that one sentence? If so, you sound like you think "normal" is an admirable trait. Not to me. Average is unexceptional.

Seems to me the best way to be "normal", whatever that is, would be to do nothing at all with your life. Just surrender to your personal comfort zone, and never dare to dream. Sounds mind-numbing, and spirit-crushing to me.

Like I said, in order to win society over, you have to act normal to show them that just because your gay, your one of them too! I'm sorry that riding a paper mache dick can't win society over, but honestly just flying under the radar is the best method.

a sort of sequiter here. now im not anti-semetic or anything. half my friends are jewish. but i have the same general feeling about the holocaust. alot of the time, jews make it seem a) they were the only ones murdered b) that all of germany was behind it and c) that we dont feel bad enough for wat happened. it feels to me like an overplayed card. the constant bombardment is wat desensitizes people, and breeds new hatred. its the same thing with gay rites. of course without saying that we shud still never forget the crimes, or stop fighting for rights. just less loud please.

a sort of sequiter here. now im not anti-semetic or anything. half my friends are jewish. but i have the same general feeling about the holocaust. alot of the time, jews make it seem a) they were the only ones murdered b) that all of germany was behind it and c) that we dont feel bad enough for wat happened. it feels to me like an overplayed card. the constant bombardment is wat desensitizes people, and breeds new hatred. its the same thing with gay rites. of course without saying that we shud still never forget the crimes, or stop fighting for rights. just less loud please.

You want us to quiet down? GIVE US EQUALITY! That's going to be the fastest way to end gay pride parades. At least the holocaust is over--we are still in the same boat.

all im saying is u can fight for equality (wich shudnt be gay or womens or black, just universal human rights) without making everyone else feel unfortable. sry if im being blunt, alot of people feel the same way but dont have the balls to actually say wat they think to people

all im saying is u can fight for equality (wich shudnt be gay or womens or black, just universal human rights) without making everyone else feel unfortable. sry if im being blunt, alot of people feel the same way but dont have the balls to actually say wat they think to people

So we should fight to be just like you? Never mind being ourselves. . . . its all about what makes YOU comfortable. That's a violation of human rights there. Christianity makes me uncomfortable, but I don't call for a ban on churches or on evangelism.

a sort of sequiter here. now im not anti-semetic or anything. half my friends are jewish. but i have the same general feeling about the holocaust. alot of the time, jews make it seem a) they were the only ones murdered b) that all of germany was behind it and c) that we dont feel bad enough for wat happened. it feels to me like an overplayed card. the constant bombardment is wat desensitizes people, and breeds new hatred. its the same thing with gay rites. of course without saying that we shud still never forget the crimes, or stop fighting for rights. just less loud please.http://www.alaskacoinexchange.com/Stamps%2010/10c%20Retarded%20Children.jpg

You want us to quiet down? GIVE US EQUALITY! That's going to be the fastest way to end gay pride parades. At least the holocaust is over--we are still in the same boat.

Holy shit!! Hyperbole, anyone?

Get back to me when they start marching homosexuals to a gas chamber.

im not saying b like anything. im just talking from the basic principle of human nature wich is to not like things that are shoved at them(bad analogie, apologies sry cudnt think of another) in short, i just feel that if something doesnt make me pay more money, or put my life or my friends and families lives in danger, then go rite ahead. i am absolutely for human rights , not just any specific group. all im saying is, if that was more the approach, it would be alot easier for certain right wing politico jerks to accept defeat/ the truth/ intelligence for once.

Holy shit!! Hyperbole, anyone?

Get back to me when they start marching homosexuals to a gas chamber.


Bad choice of words--we are in the same boat we've been in all along (oh and for the record, homosexuals WERE put in the gas chambers during the holocaust).

im not saying b like anything. im just talking from the basic principle of human nature wich is to not like things that are shoved at them(bad analogie, apologies sry cudnt think of another) in short, i just feel that if something doesnt make me pay more money, or put my life or my friends and families lives in danger, then go rite ahead. i am absolutely for human rights , not just any specific group. all im saying is, if that was more the approach, it would be alot easier for certain right wing politico jerks to accept defeat/ the truth/ intelligence for once.

And yet there are professional gay groups approaching them like that--try the Log Cabin Republicans. And still nothing gets done. I wonder why? Could it be that ignorance and bigotry are the most incurable diseases in the world?

Bad choice of words--we are in the same boat we've been in all along (oh and for the record, homosexuals WERE put in the gas chambers during the holocaust).

I don't think you can compare the current struggle for gay rights to the holocaust, and Jews are still going through worldwide discrimination as well.

Even if homosexuals were sent to the gas chambers during the holocaust your statement was ridiculous and made you sound extremely self-absorbed.

I don't think you can compare the current struggle for gay rights to the holocaust, and Jews are still going through worldwide discrimination as well.

Even if homosexuals were sent to the gas chambers during the holocaust your statement was ridiculous and made you sound extremely self-absorbed.

I didn't compare the situation to the holocaust and my apologies if it came across that way. I was replying to a previous poster who said we were makign too big of a deal out of this, which he argues the Jews are doing abou tthe holocaust. I said that at least the holocaust is over, gays are still being persecuted and it hasn't improved--while the jewish situation has, something for which I am very thankful. I support NO discrimination of any kind. I am very thankful for all the battles one, but I'm not going to step down in continuing to fight for equality and civil rights. Does that make me selfish? Maybe. I'll gladly accept the title if wanting to be treated like a full human being is selfish.

It is my personal belief that we must kill all homosexuals to prevent this disease from spreading to our pure children. They are unnatural and a scourge to society, we must stop them in theri tracks! :eek: :sniper: imagine if their were gays hitting on and attempting to poison our children who can be influenced to become one of these freaks!
Suggesting genocide on gays? Counts as trolling in pretty much anyone's book, The Mafiasos. It doesn't matter if it's your actual opinion or you're making it up to annoy people, it's still trolling.

This is your one free warning. Use it well. Learn from it. Go and sin no more, because the next time we won't be so lenient. Do I make myself transparently clear?

~ Frisbeeteria ~
NationStates Moderator Team

I didn't compare the situation to the holocaust and my apologies if it came across that way. I was replying to a previous poster who said we were makign too big of a deal out of this, which he argues the Jews are doing abou tthe holocaust. I said that at least the holocaust is over, gays are still being persecuted and it hasn't improved--while the jewish situation has, something for which I am very thankful. I support NO discrimination of any kind. I am very thankful for all the battles one, but I'm not going to step down in continuing to fight for equality and civil rights. Does that make me selfish? Maybe. I'll gladly accept the title if wanting to be treated like a full human being is selfish.

OK, it just irked me when you said "we're still in the same boat" or whatever after saying the holocaust was over.

If you will read my earlier posts, you will see that I am for full inclusion of homosexuals in all facets of society.

Why is it important for some gays to announce that they are gay. Or coming out of the closet! I'm gay! We must have special rights for gays! Who really cares. Why are gay issues centers of some gay thinking. You are the same as us heterosexuals. You just happen to like the same sex. Other than that you have all the same aspirations and social whims as the rest of society. What do I care? Really I do get tired of the special interest that some gays crave. Am I missing something here? Or am I just being to over sensitive to all the hype?

Why is it stupid topics like this are initiated by heterosexuals who claim to be so sick of hearing about gay rights this, gay issues that? :confused:

Gay guy here (oh dear Im guilty of announcing myself) and I was sick of it long ago but there is a pound of flesh we do seek and if everyone just shut up and get out of the way no one will get hurt. Muhahahah!

Suggesting genocide on gays? Counts as trolling in pretty much anyone's book, The Mafiasos. It doesn't matter if it's your actual opinion or you're making it up to annoy people, it's still trolling.

This is your one free warning. Use it well. Learn from it. Go and sin no more, because the next time we won't be so lenient. Do I make myself transparently clear?

~ Frisbeeteria ~
NationStates Moderator Team

You should get rid of him, it is obvious that he has no respect for the rules of this forum, and a warning won't change that.

OK, it just irked me when you said "we're still in the same boat" or whatever after saying the holocaust was over.

If you will read my earlier posts, you will see that I am for full inclusion of homosexuals in all facets of society.

Yeah, and then I clarified it in a later post after someone pointed it out. . . when I said that we were in the same boat we've always been in. I realize that the Holocaust was much worse. Believe me, I still cry when I wtch Schindler's List or the Piano.

u no wat wud solve this all? get some small, elmenetary school kids with gay and every kind of imaginable minority parents to go to Congress and propose an equal rights bill. how could u possibly turn down kids? its worked before on all kinds of stuff.

Yeah, and then I clarified it in a later post after someone pointed it out. . . when I said that we were in the same boat we've always been in. I realize that the Holocaust was much worse. Believe me, I still cry when I wtch Schindler's List or the Piano.

Yes, yes, I understand now, and I am sorry about the misunderstanding.

*OFF TOPIC*
The last scene in Schindler's List when he is crying about not saving more is pretty powerful stuff.
*OFF TOPIC*

Yes, yes, I understand now, and I am sorry about the misunderstanding.

*OFF TOPIC*
The last scene in Schindler's List when he is crying about not saving more is pretty powerful stuff.
*OFF TOPIC*

Hey, I figure that when I stop having misunderstandings, it means I'm dead. It's the way of life. And yeah, that's a great scene.

speaking of nazis...does ne one no wen the next one around philly is? id like to go so i can throw some rocks, now that i quit baseball

OK, it just irked me when you said "we're still in the same boat" or whatever after saying the holocaust was over.
It never sounds best when anyone compares their political cause to the plight of American blacks, or even worse, with Jews murdered in the Holocaust.
That just sounds sensational and self-involved.
If you will read my earlier posts, you will see that I am for full inclusion of homosexuals in all facets of society.
C'mon Vitto- admit it. You're a weekend gaybasher!!! :p


Sounds like your heart's in the right place Pracus, but when you overstate, you lose the debate (nice little pneumonic there). :)

You damn right they do! And as long as I am alive, they will face discrimination and bigotry. Disgusting sex habits should not be allowed. Sex is for reproduction, nothing else.

Of course, only you are allowed to decide what counts as 'Disgusting sex habits'. Idiot.

American blacks, or even worse, with Jews murdered in the Holocaust.
That just sounds sensational and self-involved.
If you will read my earlier posts, you will see that I am for full inclusion of homosexuals in all facets of society.
Political mistake: Comparing the gay rights cause with the plight of African-Americans or Jews murdered by the Third Reich.

Sounds like your heart's in the right place Pracus, but when you overstate, you lose the debate (nice little pneumonic there). :)[/QUOTE]


Actually, I do equate the gay rights movement to the African American civil rights movement. I consider them to be highly simliar in many ways. The holocaust was in the same category--but many, Many, MANY orders of magnitude worse. I've already explained this, why am I continuing to have to do so?

Actually, I do equate the gay rights movement to the African American civil rights movement. I consider them to be highly simliar in many ways. The holocaust was in the same category--but many, Many, MANY orders of magnitude worse. I've already explained this, why am I continuing to have to do so?

Prac... you're not a minority unless you have funny coloured skin. Ummkay?

Actually, I do equate the gay rights movement to the African American civil rights movement. I consider them to be highly simliar in many ways. The holocaust was in the same category--but many, Many, MANY orders of magnitude worse. I've already explained this, why am I continuing to have to do so?

Because you keep making the comparisons, which is a bad, bad idea. I understand where you are coming from, and they are similar, but the comparisons do more to distract from your argument than they add to it.

Because you keep making the comparisons, which is a bad, bad idea. I understand where you are coming from, and they are similar, but the comparisons do more to distract from your argument than they add to it.

Are y'all reading what I'm writing or do you not understand the definition of the world comparison?

Let me make it simple:

HOLOCAUST = HORRIFIC BREECH OF HUMAN RIGHTS AND DIGNITY

MISTREATMENT OF GAYS != HOLOCAUST

MISTREATMENT OF GAYS = BREECH HUMAN RIGHTS MANY MAGNITUDES LOWER THAN HOLOCAUST

MISTREATMET OF GAYS = SIMILARITIES to Civil Rights Movement but NOT identifical to it.

Prac... you're not a minority unless you have funny coloured skin. Ummkay?

No, not okay. Cause that's not the definition of a minority. I really hope you're joking, but the way things are going for me tonight, you probably aren't.

Are y'all reading what I'm writing or do you not understand the definition of the world comparison?

Let me make it simple:

HOLOCAUST = HORRIFIC BREECH OF HUMAN RIGHTS AND DIGNITY

MISTREATMENT OF GAYS != HOLOCAUST

MISTREATMENT OF GAYS = BREECH HUMAN RIGHTS MANY MAGNITUDES LOWER THAN HOLOCAUST

MISTREATMET OF GAYS = SIMILARITIES to Civil Rights Movement but NOT identifical to it.

thanku

*snip*

Read my last post again, and see where I disagree with the comparison you are making. You misunderstand why I think it is not wise to make that comparison.

Think Godwin's Law.

Prac... you're not a minority unless you have funny coloured skin. Ummkay?Not the coldest beer in the fridge, eh?

Read my last post again, and see where I disagree with the comparison you are making. You misunderstand why I think it is not wise to make that comparison.

Think Godwin's Law.



Okay which comparison? I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt. BECAUSE I WAS NOT MAKING A COMPARISON BETWEEN THE HOLOCAUST AND GAY RIGHTS.

I'm sick of having to defend something I didn't do!

No, not okay. Cause that's not the definition of a minority. I really hope you're joking, but the way things are going for me tonight, you probably aren't.


Hmph of course I was joking. You used to think I was very intelligent and that I seemed like I was a student of anthropology. :(

Hmph of course I was joking. You used to think I was very intelligent and that I seemed like I was a student of anthropology. :(

I'm evidently having a bad night on the communication front. A week of tests and little sleep will do that.

Okay which comparison? I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt. BECAUSE I WAS NOT MAKING A COMPARISON BETWEEN THE HOLOCAUST AND GAY RIGHTS.

I'm sick of having to defend something I didn't do!

I'm saying that if you make a comparison that, even if there are similarities, can be construed as sensational will do more to hurt your argument than help it.

And you have made the comparison to the holocaust three times.

I got that Fuglies was being intentionally full of crap. No offense, really Pracus, but I think you're getting a little too tense. Have one of these- :fluffle:

There are several reasons, one of which is the homophobia of much of america and the climate of opression it creates for homosexials.

Another is the fact that gay people are not afforded the same civil rights as straight people with regards to their relationships.

Gay people are through being kept down and expected to feel shame about who they are, this is essentially a backlash that will help to normalize society for gay people.

In New Zeland gays are being afforded the same rights as hertosexuals like the passing of the civil union bill(which is esseially marriage) and there are promenient gay members of the community such as some MP's(like congress, not milatary ploice) and also big biusseiness owners

Hmph of course I was joking. You used to think I was very intelligent and that I seemed like I was a student of anthropology. :(
I didn't know you were joking either, considering some of the other poster's content. When you want to delver something toungue-in-cheek, this smiley always clears things up: :rolleyes: , or :p .
Apologies for the coldest beer comment. :) :fluffle:

howbout we just agree that everybody should have equal rights, and that the best way to get things done sometimes is to wait for an oppurtunity (like martin luther king) and then get things done. then u wait for laws to sink in, and after awhile things start to cool down. u cant eradicate ne thing in people immediatly. it just doesnt happen, wich is wat seems to be something that has been missed here, everybody talking like as soon as gay rights are equalized, ppl stop discriminating. u cant change everybody all at the same time

I'm saying that if you make a comparison that, even if there are similarities, can be construed as sensational will do more to hurt your argument than help it.

And you have made the comparison to the holocaust three times.


Similiarities exist. I'm not going to pretend they don't. I don't normally bring it up, because I don't think its really that big of an arguement either--I was merely responding to what someone else said. Yes, I spoke poorly, but I apologize and clarified. So again, simliarties exist, scope is different (VASTLY), I've tried to expla time and again, that:

A. The scope was vastly different

and

B. My initial post was not intended to compare what went on during the two. My point was to say that the situation of homosexuals have NOT changed while the situation of the Jews has, for which I am greatful.

I'm not responding to this again.

I got that Fuglies was being intentionally full of crap. No offense, really Pracus, but I think you're getting a little too tense. Have one of these- :fluffle:

The only reason I am geting tense is that I am sick of having to repeat myself over and over that I am not comparing what gays are going through to what Jews went through in the Holocaust. I have said this repeatedly now.

howbout we just agree that everybody should have equal rights, and that the best way to get things done sometimes is to wait for an oppurtunity (like martin luther king) and then get things done. then u wait for laws to sink in, and after awhile things start to cool down. u cant eradicate ne thing in people immediatly. it just doesnt happen, wich is wat seems to be something that has been missed here, everybody talking like as soon as gay rights are equalized, ppl stop discriminating. u cant change everybody all at the same time

A little bit of advice:

Your posts are hard to read and I assume it degrades from the content (I didn't read it).

Assuming that you aren't typing on a cell phone keypad, try and capitalize and spell out words.

howbout we just agree that everybody should have equal rights, and that the best way to get things done sometimes is to wait for an oppurtunity (like martin luther king) and then get things done. then u wait for laws to sink in, and after awhile things start to cool down. u cant eradicate ne thing in people immediatly. it just doesnt happen, wich is wat seems to be something that has been missed here, everybody talking like as soon as gay rights are equalized, ppl stop discriminating. u cant change everybody all at the same time

I never meant to imply that. I realize that hate is always going to be alive and well and that it will always go both ways. I'm not fighting to be loved. I'm fighting to be treated as a human with equal rights from the government I pay taxes too in a country that I love.

And yes I am just speaking for myself here. I am having compuslvie response making tonight and I am finding it quite irritating in myself. Must be time to up my meds.

Similiarities exist. I'm not going to pretend they don't. I don't normally bring it up, because I don't think its really that big of an arguement either--I was merely responding to what someone else said.

See that is a comparison, a weak one, but enough of one to be noticed.

Yes, I spoke poorly, but I apologize and clarified. So again, simliarties exist, scope is different (VASTLY), I've tried to expla time and again, that:

A. The scope was vastly different

and

B. My initial post was not intended to compare what went on during the two. My point was to say that the situation of homosexuals have NOT changed while the situation of the Jews has, for which I am greatful.

I'm not responding to this again.

I am not saying that similarities don't exist, but when you bring them up in a sensational nature it will hurt your argument.

Just like you can logically argue that there are similarities between George W. Bush and Hitler, but it is guaranteed to rile your opposition so much that any point you make will be lost.

Just like it did with me originally, I didn't respond to the point of your post, I responded to what I thought was an outlandish comparison.

I am not trying to get you angry or be argumentative, I am just trying to point out what I thought was a poor tactic on your part.

See that is a comparison, a weak one, but enough of one to be noticed.



I am not saying that similarities don't exist, but when you bring them up in a sensational nature it will hurt your argument.

Just like you can logically argue that there are similarities between George W. Bush and Hitler, but it is guaranteed to rile your opposition so much that any point you make will be lost.

Just like it did with me originally, I didn't respond to the point of your post, I responded to what I thought was an outlandish comparison.

I am not trying to get you angry or be argumentative, I am just trying to point out what I thought was a poor tactic on your part.


It wasn't a tactic. It was poor word choice. If you are going to jump on someone, jump on the person who brought the holocaust up here.

A little bit of advice:

Your posts are hard to read and I assume it degrades from the content (I didn't read it).

Assuming that you aren't typing on a cell phone keypad, try and capitalize and spell out words.

sorry, im just kind of tired

I didn't know you were joking either, considering some of the other poster's content. When you want to delver something toungue-in-cheek, this smiley always clears things up: :rolleyes: , or :p .
Apologies for the coldest beer comment. :) :fluffle:

Well... I conversed with Pracus once in a smiliar thread and thought he'd know I wasn't serious so I thought smilies weren't necessary. I'm quite brainy actually, though not very educated and it seems my sense of humour stinks. :(

*cries*

Well... I conversed with Pracus once in a smiliar thread and thought he'd know I wasn't serious so I thought smilies weren't necessary. I'm quite brainy actually, though not very educated and it seems my sense of humour stinks. :(

*cries*

Oh now don't cry. I have a strict policy that no one cries in my presence. . .and if I cry my mascara will run ;)

But seriously, I'm sorry I missed the joke--I think its obvious I'm having communications difficulties tonight.

It wasn't a tactic. It was poor word choice. If you are going to jump on someone, jump on the person who brought the holocaust up here.

ok, dropped

ok, dropped

Thank you :)

You know honestly, I think the gays acting all flamboyant and flaming, are doing nothing more than giving the bigots ammo. I mean thats all your doing, just giving them a reason to discriminate agaisnt. I mean you set yourself apart from the rest of the heard, and when you do that, your goinng to draw attention! The best way to get accepted is to flly under the radar and be as NORMAL as possible. Now normality to me is you know dressing normal, having normal converstation, etc. I mean you can hold your lover hand, or kiss him/her, thats normal! However dancing out in the street in a very revealing outfit, and riding a paper-machae dick, is going to draw attention!

And blacks should act as white as possible because that is NORMAL.
And hispanics...
And asians ...

And women should act as male as possible because that is NORMAL. Or wait -- they should stay home in kitchen because that is NORMAL.

And Orthodox Jews should cut their hair and dress NORMAL.
And the Amish should dress and act NORMAL.

And the Irish shouldn't march on St. Patrick's Day. The should act NORMAL.

Are you starting to see the problem with your statement?

I think the person who started this thread is very sensible. If more heterosexuals thought that way, homophobia would be non-existent. And really, this whole Gay Pride thing IS a response to homophobia - if people were a bit less uptight it wouldn't be such a major thing.

Basically my point here is Chillax

and stuff will turn out okay.

I think the person who started this thread is very sensible. If more heterosexuals thought that way, homophobia would be non-existent. And really, this whole Gay Pride thing IS a response to homophobia - if people were a bit less uptight it wouldn't be such a major thing.

Basically my point here is Chillax

and stuff will turn out okay.

<leads a chorus of The Sun'll Come Out Tomorrow>

I think the person who started this thread is very sensible. If more heterosexuals thought that way, homophobia would be non-existent. And really, this whole Gay Pride thing IS a response to homophobia - if people were a bit less uptight it wouldn't be such a major thing.

Basically my point here is Chillax

and stuff will turn out okay.

Thanks for the comment. I try to be open minded about stuff. I realise that we are all wanting of the same things in life for the most part. To live and love in happiness. Basically what it comes down to. However one decides how to achieve those goals.

a sort of sequiter here. now im not anti-semetic or anything. half my friends are jewish. but i have the same general feeling about the holocaust. alot of the time, jews make it seem a) they were the only ones murdered b) that all of germany was behind it and c) that we dont feel bad enough for wat happened. it feels to me like an overplayed card. the constant bombardment is wat desensitizes people, and breeds new hatred. its the same thing with gay rites. of course without saying that we shud still never forget the crimes, or stop fighting for rights. just less loud please.

Oh. My. God. (And I'm an Athiest.)

I'm not responding to the above directly. But the theme of your posts is that oppressed groups should put on a nice happy front so you don't feel uncomfortable.

Sure, don't "stop fighting for rights," but do it quietly so you don't disturb anyone.

It does sound like you would have advised Jews to get on the trains and get in the showers in a calm, orderly manner.

And, Pracus, I think you've communicated very clearly.

I do not mean to awaken sleeping dogs, but I do not think you have been at fault.

And, Pracus, I think you've communicated very clearly.

I do not mean to awaken sleeping dogs, but I do not think you have been at fault.

Shut up.

j/k

Shut up.

j/k

:D :fluffle:

Homosexuality has been present since the dawn of time...before even people distiguished homosexuality. It did not take long for the caveman to realize that, in order to reproduce, he could not plug another man's poop chute. Since then homosexuality has not been less present on our planet, but it is seen as problem not only because of the fact that its DIFFERENT but also because religion has carried the torch of the caveman and we all know how much religion counts..i mean it did get u fools to vote for Bush AGAIN.. anyways point being that all ur mothers are fat

And, Pracus, I think you've communicated very clearly.

I do not mean to awaken sleeping dogs, but I do not think you have been at fault.

God bless you. And I've finally figured out a Secular Humanist and I'm saying that!

Homosexuality has been present since the dawn of time...before even people distiguished homosexuality. It did not take long for the caveman to realize that, in order to reproduce, he could not plug another man's poop chute. Since then homosexuality has not been less present on our planet, but it is seen as problem not only because of the fact that its DIFFERENT but also because religion has carried the torch of the caveman and we all know how much religion counts..i mean it did get u fools to vote for Bush AGAIN.. anyways point being that all ur mothers are fat

Uh... George Bush didn't actually get in on a solely religious basis. America isn't quite so far gone as all that.

And we have absolutely NO way of telling that its been around since prehistoric times - in actual fact pure homosexuality hasn't been tolerated in most places - even in ancient greece a guy could only have a gay lover if he was already married with children.

And 'religion' (although i think you mean christianity) does not carry the torch of the caveman. The caveman didn't have monotheism, and its mainly Christianity thats had the huge problem with homosexuality. A spirit that lives in a tree doesn't give a damn who you screw.

Hahahaha first of all, i never said it was the only base on Bush getting in... i mean it takes a lil more than that to brainwash people who watch CNN and know the truth....(or not)
Second Christianity is not the only religion against homos inform urself
Tercio Homosexuality HAS been present since the dawn of time and if you watched Alexander and think u got some idea on what gayness was back then, well my friend you know jack because its an accepted historical fact that homoseuxality was nto only tolerated back then, but it was encouraged UNTIL marriage. Young men would be matched with older men, mentors, and they would train and learn together and would go to battle together. If you look up pederasty in the dick-shenary ull see what i mean. But this wasnt only so in Athens, Caesar was gay too and countless other Roman emperors... anyways u get the point homosexuality was is and always will be present and people make such a fuss about something that will never affect them...i dont see why people go outta their way to talk about this...Freud would get kick out of this
And how u got monogamy mixed homosexuality is beyond me, but what i meant by religion carrying the torch, is that religion simply declared homosexuality bad because it judged it unnatural...religion is partial ignorance..because religion is not God its an institution

Hahahaha first of all, i never said it was the only base on Bush getting in... i mean it takes a lil more than that to brainwash people who watch CNN and know the truth....(or not)
Second Christianity is not the only religion against homos inform urself
Tercio Homosexuality HAS been present since the dawn of time and if you watched Alexander and think u got some idea on what gayness was back then, well my friend you know jack because its an accepted historical fact that homoseuxality was nto only tolerated back then, but it was encouraged UNTIL marriage. Young men would be matched with older men, mentors, and they would train and learn together and would go to battle together. If you look up pederasty in the dick-shenary ull see what i mean. But this wasnt only so in Athens, Caesar was gay too and countless other Roman emperors... anyways u get the point homosexuality was is and always will be present and people make such a fuss about something that will never affect them...i dont see why people go outta their way to talk about this...Freud would get kick out of this
And how u got monogamy mixed homosexuality is beyond me, but what i meant by religion carrying the torch, is that religion simply declared homosexuality bad because it judged it unnatural...religion is partial ignorance..because religion is not God its an institution

Writing in English would make your posts Oh-so-much more coherent. I don't consider myself a grammar/spelling nazi, but I guess I'm bored.

Who the hell cares? I'm sorry, I was not aware Mark Twain was reviewing my grammar and spelling. Suck my Huckleberries

Who the hell cares? I'm sorry, I was not aware Mark Twain was reviewing my grammar and spelling. Suck my Huckleberries
LOL
Or mwahahahaha!

A spirit that lives in a tree doesn't give a damn who you screw.
I assume it would be mad if you screwed the tree it lived in.

Hahahaha first of all, i never said it was the only base on Bush getting in... i mean it takes a lil more than that to brainwash people who watch CNN and know the truth....(or not)
Second Christianity is not the only religion against homos inform urself
Tercio Homosexuality HAS been present since the dawn of time and if you watched Alexander and think u got some idea on what gayness was back then, well my friend you know jack because its an accepted historical fact that homoseuxality was nto only tolerated back then, but it was encouraged UNTIL marriage. Young men would be matched with older men, mentors, and they would train and learn together and would go to battle together. If you look up pederasty in the dick-shenary ull see what i mean. But this wasnt only so in Athens, Caesar was gay too and countless other Roman emperors... anyways u get the point homosexuality was is and always will be present and people make such a fuss about something that will never affect them...i dont see why people go outta their way to talk about this...Freud would get kick out of this
And how u got monogamy mixed homosexuality is beyond me, but what i meant by religion carrying the torch, is that religion simply declared homosexuality bad because it judged it unnatural...religion is partial ignorance..because religion is not God its an institutionback in Greece and Rome, it was believed that soldiers would fight if they had an emotional tie to their fellow soldier... now here's the shocker.

they never engaged in penetration... the method of that time was to... err... well... let's just say, it wasn't penetration.

and the reason I know this is because a friend of mine (major history geek) showed me a couple of books where they described their rituals... unfortunatly, I spent the last 3 years forgetting which books (they were non-fiction) they were.. so take it with a grain of salt.

Next door to me, we used to have a gay couple living there. You barely noticed them living there, they were not 'camp' or anything.


A huge contrast to the guy that was at my HS, and went around with a handbag.

...I do not mean to awaken sleeping dogs...
I can believe that, Cat-Tribe. ;)

back in Greece and Rome, it was believed that soldiers would fight if they had an emotional tie to their fellow soldier... now here's the shocker.

they never engaged in penetration... the method of that time was to... err... well... let's just say, it wasn't penetration.

and the reason I know this is because a friend of mine (major history geek) showed me a couple of books where they described their rituals... unfortunatly, I spent the last 3 years forgetting which books (they were non-fiction) they were.. so take it with a grain of salt.


Thebes Sacred Band.
And anyone allowing penetration was looked down at. That made you a "woman" and we know how misogynist Greeks were.

A huge contrast to the guy that was at my HS, and went around with a handbag.
I probably shouldn't be laughing, but I can't help it! :p

Maybe because there are quite a few homophobes out there to make a point of it to try and denigrate homsexuals every chance they get and try to make their lives miserable.

When people finally get the f*ck over it, and leave people the hell alone, then it won't be a big deal. But with all the Christian Fundamentalists doing everything they can to harass homosexuals, it's not likely to disappear anytime soon.

But there needs to be some balance between where the rights of the religious in our society and the gays conflict. I certainly don't claim to have the answer to that.
At no point do the rights that religious people are entitled to conflict with the rights that gay people are entitled to.

That's just strange. If I lez out and do every woman that'll have me, it doesn't infringe on anyones religious rights.

But there needs to be some balance between where the rights of the religious in our society and the gays conflict. I certainly don't claim to have the answer to that.
exactly what rights do the religious have over the relationships of other people? are you seriously suggesting that religious people have some kind of "right to not be offended?" because i know Catholics who are offended by non-Catholic marriage ceremonies, so if you are going to try to claim that being offended violates religious freedoms then you had better be prepared to enforce that across the board.

I personally don't see the discrimination and bigotry you say there is. I suppose there is some. I won't say there isn't any. But in my Bar's/clubs that I own. They come in dressed in drag and have a good time with the regular customers. I personally never had to break up a fight over this. Or have I known of a situation where there was a problem because of someone being "gay". I deal with the public on a continous basis. I just don't see this as being a big problem.

I saw someone getting kicked in the head the other day for being gay.

I saw someone getting kicked in the head the other day for being gay.

Really, please elaborate. That would be most unusual.

Really, please elaborate. That would be most unusual.

Drunk straight guy thought another guy fancied him. So beat him up and kicked him in the head. And this was all in Manchester's gay village. Outside the kebab shop.

Drunk straight guy thought another guy fancied him. So beat him up and kicked him in the head. And this was all in Manchester's gay village. Outside the kebab shop.

Whoopee. I got beaten up in Manchester for being from Liverpool. There's c*nts everywhere.

The main problem I have with Gay Activists..isn't any of the usual stuff. They can ride thier huge paper dongs, dress in sequins and talk about what they'd do to Tom Cruise's penis all they want. The aruement I have with my gay friends all the time is actually more based on Society/Capitalism than Law.

They get constantly pissed off when products are advertised with a male-female couple dynamic. Really annoys them. What they simply fail to realise is that alot of the problems they encounter isn't to do with equality, but a continued feeling of oscterization (sp?) from the media. They say that they never see any gay adverts, or products aimed at gay people on TV..but the problem they don't see is that that's because of Capitalism, not so much down to TV companies/Companies in general hating Gays. You market your product to the majority of available consumers. As it stands, Heterosexuals are the majority, therefore you'll advertise your products with them in mind. IT's simple ecomonics, not a subtle attempt to keep down the entire Homosexual society....

Wow..this is rambling...umm...yeah, hope this makes sense.

Hangovers... :(

You damn right they do! And as long as I am alive, they will face discrimination and bigotry. Disgusting sex habits should not be allowed. Sex is for reproduction, nothing else.
I'm confused. Heterosexual sex is the yuckiest thing two human beings can do to each other. Should I discriminate against myself?

Agreed. But remember it goes both ways!
What do you mean by that?

Perhaps they should seek less flamboyant ways to demonstrate? You didn't see african-americans flamboyantly dressing up and such when they went to demand equal rights.
Actually they did march and wear signs.

....this is a topic i've been feircly dealing with for over a year now. I'm only 16, but last year in school (softmore year) when the gays in our school had a 'day of silence' to protest the treatment of gays or something, I tried to make a 'day of truth' to protest something about them lieing to everyone or some crap like that. I live in Rhode Island, a state littered with liberals, so all the school administrators tried getting me in trouble. Later that year I passed a petition around to make an 'Anti-gay Alliance' group after school (we have a gay-alliance) and I got something like 88 signatures. When I gave the petition to the principal, he called and told my mommy on me. After that, I put out a 'news letter' kind of thing. It was just me telling everyone what happened. So far this year, (junior year) I have already put out 2 more of those papers, and i'm planing on another. I never really hated gay people, it was just because after the first thing, they were bastards to me and some even threatened my life. So now, I say to everyone that I hate fags, but I really don't. So, in a way, the gays forced this. If they had just let me have my 'day of truth' thing, then they wouldent have to hear from me anymore......
Wow... even Jesussaves was not so good at making himself look stupid.

Disgusting sex habits should not be allowed.
How do you suggest such laws against these habits should be enforced? Cameras through bedroom windows? Electronic tags on all penises, anuses and vaginas, so all sex in the nation can be monitored centrally? I'd love to hear your ideas.

youve never had sex other than to produce a child?
I think you've made a huge assumption in thinking that this guy has ever had, or ever will have sex.

So you are also a leftist, a pacifist, and an anarchist?
Maybe you haven't noticed, but he's obviously joking.

Sometimes the truth hurts.
Was it one of those violently anti-homophobic flames? I like those...

Now normality to me is you know dressing normal, having normal converstation, etc. I mean you can hold your lover hand, or kiss him/her, thats normal!
This is actually exactly what most homosexuals do. That doesn't seem to be working brilliantly.

Holy shit!! Hyperbole, anyone?

Get back to me when they start marching homosexuals to a gas chamber.
Hitler did that too.

I saw someone getting kicked in the head the other day for being gay.


Really, care to eloborate. What was going on and what type of area were you in?

Hitler did that too.

I know that, but Pracus was referring to the present plight of homosexuals, he/she said "At least the holocaust is over--we are still in the same boat."

But I don't want to get Pracus riled again.

If we're going to let the homosexuals live, which our government will do unfotunately, they should have one and only one state to go to so as they'll stay away from our good people. And if for some reason they must interact with heterosexual individuals they should have a patch or barcode or something so citizens may be warned when one of these things are near. Personally i think we should just execute the unnatureal freaks, to preserve the purity of the human race. :eek: :sniper:

If we're going to let the homosexuals live, which our government will do unfotunately, they should have one and only one state to go to so as they'll stay away from our good people. And if for some reason they must interact with heterosexual individuals they should have a patch or barcode or something so citizens may be warned when one of these things are near. Personally i think we should just execute the unnatureal freaks, to preserve the purity of the human race. :eek: :sniper:
nice of you to want to kill me :)

nice of you to want to kill me :)

anytime...its nothing personal, i just want to kill you

If we're going to let the homosexuals live, which our government will do unfotunately, they should have one and only one state to go to so as they'll stay away from our good people. And if for some reason they must interact with heterosexual individuals they should have a patch or barcode or something so citizens may be warned when one of these things are near. Personally i think we should just execute the unnatureal freaks, to preserve the purity of the human race. :eek: :sniper:

Ooohhh, I love it when you talk tough.

Come to me you big sexy man. :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:

If we're going to let the homosexuals live, which our government will do unfotunately, they should have one and only one state to go to so as they'll stay away from our good people. And if for some reason they must interact with heterosexual individuals they should have a patch or barcode or something so citizens may be warned when one of these things are near. Personally i think we should just execute the unnatureal freaks, to preserve the purity of the human race. :eek: :sniper:

Hey, this post was for open discussion. But what you are saying is outright inflammitory. Please stay off this post. This kind of crap adds nothing to it. You are suggesting exactly the same as Nazi Germany did. That wasn't to popular in the world now was it.

If we're going to let the homosexuals live, which our government will do unfotunately, they should have one and only one state to go to so as they'll stay away from our good people. And if for some reason they must interact with heterosexual individuals they should have a patch or barcode or something so citizens may be warned when one of these things are near. Personally i think we should just execute the unnatureal freaks, to preserve the purity of the human race. :eek: :sniper:
Death threats are grounds for deletion my dear, say nothing that I would be perfectly within my rights to ask the FBI to investigate this and arrest you. Think about that.

You damn right they do! And as long as I am alive, they will face discrimination and bigotry. Disgusting sex habits should not be allowed. Sex is for reproduction, nothing else.

This was a joke right. I don't plan on reproducing, but I have a lot of sex. And a lot of the sex, people might consider disgusting. I even find it disgusting sometimes.

If we're going to let the homosexuals live, which our government will do unfotunately, they should have one and only one state to go to so as they'll stay away from our good people. And if for some reason they must interact with heterosexual individuals they should have a patch or barcode or something so citizens may be warned when one of these things are near. Personally i think we should just execute the unnatureal freaks, to preserve the purity of the human race. :eek: :sniper:

You are filth. You will be cleansed.

[QUOTE=The Mafiasos]Personally i think we should just execute the unnatureal freaks, QUOTE]


Mafioso are you worried being gay is contagious and you think you may get turned into a GAY oooh.
Learn some science it’s all self explanatory, even your suppressed attitude!

I also think you're a bit of a freak

If we're going to let the homosexuals live, which our government will do unfotunately, they should have one and only one state to go to so as they'll stay away from our good people.

i think this is actually a great idea...move the gay people somewhere else for a year, and let the homophobes realize how much the gay community really contributes. gay citizens (on average) pay more taxes, tend to be more educated and hold correspondingly specialized jobs, and tend to be more socially minded and active in improving their communities. i would give the 'phobes about 18 months before they are begging for the gays to come back. :)

And if for some reason they must interact with heterosexual individuals they should have a patch or barcode or something so citizens may be warned when one of these things are near.

i've got no problem with that, as long as people like you agree to wear similar warning labels so the rest of us can avoid catching the full-blown-batshit-crazy bug that you are carrying.


Personally i think we should just execute the unnatureal freaks, to preserve the purity of the human race. :eek: :sniper:
ever hear the phrase, "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"? well, people who use the "sniper" emote probably shouldn't encourage execution of freaks...

I know that, but Pracus was referring to the present plight of homosexuals, he/she said "At least the holocaust is over--we are still in the same boat."

But I don't want to get Pracus riled again.


Well you did. Because for about the tenth time, that was a misuse of words and is not what I meant. Please read my posts clarifying this before you talk about what I did and did not say.

[QUOTE=The Mafiasos]Personally i think we should just execute the unnatureal freaks, QUOTE]


Mafioso are you worried being gay is contagious and you think you may get turned into a GAY oooh.
Learn some science it’s all self explanatory, even your suppressed attitude!

I also think you're a bit of a freak

I kind o wish it was contagious so that I could infect people like him.

Why is it important for some gays to announce that they are gay. Or coming out of the closet! I'm gay! We must have special rights for gays! Who really cares. Why are gay issues centers of some gay thinking. You are the same as us heterosexuals. You just happen to like the same sex. Other than that you have all the same aspirations and social whims as the rest of society. What do I care? Really I do get tired of the special interest that some gays crave. Am I missing something here? Or am I just being to over sensitive to all the hype?
In a way you are right, we are all humans first, and our sexuality should not be considered a major part of who we are. It should be a minor part, just kinda running in the background.

And blacks should act as white as possible because that is NORMAL.
And hispanics...
And asians ...

And women should act as male as possible because that is NORMAL. Or wait -- they should stay home in kitchen because that is NORMAL.

And Orthodox Jews should cut their hair and dress NORMAL.
And the Amish should dress and act NORMAL.

And the Irish shouldn't march on St. Patrick's Day. The should act NORMAL.

Are you starting to see the problem with your statement?

No not really. Personally I think the world would be alot better if we all stop trying to be as shocking as possible. Thats been going on so long now that A. its no longer shocking, or B. People are just plain sick of it.

No not really. Personally I think the world would be alot better if we all stop trying to be as shocking as possible. Thats been going on so long now that A. its no longer shocking, or B. People are just plain sick of it.
wait, you've been trying to be shocking? crap! i knew i wasn't getting with the trends!

personally, i've just been trying to live a happy, healthy, relatively quiet life. i've been trying to find a person who i feel is worthy to be my life partner, and who i feel worthy to love and cherish. i've been trying to build my own little world within this world. i'm endlessly surprised by the number of people who are shocked by my timid little goals, but it seems there are a great many people who find love, honor, and respect to be shocking perversions.

perhaps, instead of trying to ensure that "we all stop trying to be as shocking as possible," we should try to stop going out of our way to be shocked by the private lives of our fellow citizens?

wait, you've been trying to be shocking? crap! i knew i wasn't getting with the trends!

personally, i've just been trying to live a happy, healthy, relatively quiet life. i've been trying to find a person who i feel is worthy to be my life partner, and who i feel worthy to love and cherish. i've been trying to build my own little world within this world. i'm endlessly surprised by the number of people who are shocked by my timid little goals, but it seems there are a great many people who find love, honor, and respect to be shocking perversions.

perhaps, instead of trying to ensure that "we all stop trying to be as shocking as possible," we should try to stop going out of our way to be shocked by the private lives of our fellow citizens?

I don't have a problems with your goals. I mean thats your business, and you kept it your business. You don't carry a banner with you all day saying "Look at me, I'm gay, pay attention to me because I like dongs!" I mean honestly, what does that accomplish really? Not alot really.

No not really. Personally I think the world would be alot better if we all stop trying to be as shocking as possible. Thats been going on so long now that A. its no longer shocking, or B. People are just plain sick of it.

Did you ever stop to consider that people don't all do things for shock value but simply because that is who they are?

I don't have a problems with your goals. I mean thats your business, and you kept it your business. You don't carry a banner with you all day saying "Look at me, I'm gay, pay attention to me because I like dongs!" I mean honestly, what does that accomplish really? Not alot really.
the Christians next door to me have a sign about how much they love Jesus sitting in their front yard, and they loudly exhort me to join their church every time i pass by. the Jehovah's Witnesses pound my door in their efforts to recruit me. the Communists by the Metro yell and shove fliers in my hands. they don't accomplish a damn thing, as far as i am concerned.

yet i defend their right to be loud about their beliefs. they have that right, no matter how much i might not like their beliefs, and they can choose to make use of public spaces within the same restrictions we all have to follow. if i don't like it, i can choose not to go into those public spaces. i can choose not to look at their signs. i can choose to put my headphones on when i pass by them, so i don't have to hear what they have to say.

if you can't deal with people being loud and different, you're living on the wrong planet.

if you can't deal with people being loud and different, you're living on the wrong planet.

Or at least the wrong country.

the Christians next door to me have a sign about how much they love Jesus sitting in their front yard, and they loudly exhort me to join their church every time i pass by. the Jehovah's Witnesses pound my door in their efforts to recruit me. the Communists by the Metro yell and shove fliers in my hands. they don't accomplish a damn thing, as far as i am concerned.

yet i defend their right to be loud about their beliefs. they have that right, no matter how much i might not like their beliefs, and they can choose to make use of public spaces within the same restrictions we all have to follow. if i don't like it, i can choose not to go into those public spaces. i can choose not to look at their signs. i can choose to put my headphones on when i pass by them, so i don't have to hear what they have to say.

if you can't deal with people being loud and different, you're living on the wrong planet.
Thank you sweetie for putting into words what I was going to attempt to do with much more crass language. :D :fluffle:

the Christians next door to me have a sign about how much they love Jesus sitting in their front yard, and they loudly exhort me to join their church every time i pass by. the Jehovah's Witnesses pound my door in their efforts to recruit me. the Communists by the Metro yell and shove fliers in my hands. they don't accomplish a damn thing, as far as i am concerned.

yet i defend their right to be loud about their beliefs. they have that right, no matter how much i might not like their beliefs, and they can choose to make use of public spaces within the same restrictions we all have to follow. if i don't like it, i can choose not to go into those public spaces. i can choose not to look at their signs. i can choose to put my headphones on when i pass by them, so i don't have to hear what they have to say.

if you can't deal with people being loud and different, you're living on the wrong planet.

"pzwn3d"

bump

How dare heterosexuals flaunt that disgusting activity in front of me. It's everywhere. On TV, in the movies, in music. It's everywhere. That's just wrong. We should have laws against that stuff. If they want to do it in private I suppose it could be allowed, but it totally creeps me out to see them holding hands in public.

yeah, exactly. I mean, politically I"m tolerant of heterosexuality, but the actual act gives me the willies.

How dare heterosexuals flaunt that disgusting activity in front of me. It's everywhere. On TV, in the movies, in music. It's everywhere. That's just wrong. We should have laws against that stuff. If they want to do it in private I suppose it could be allowed, but it totally creeps me out to see them holding hands in public.


Hey I agree somewhat with this post. I get mad when something goes to far on tv and my child is sitting with me watching it. You almost have to do a days research on the programs coming up to screen out the crap. Who cares if in public your holding whoevers hand. That isn't a major deal I think.

Hey I agree somewhat with this post. I get mad when something goes to far on tv and my child is sitting with me watching it. You almost have to do a days research on the programs coming up to screen out the crap. Who cares if in public your holding whoevers hand. That isn't a major deal I think.

Actually, I would prefer neither heterosexuals nor homosexuals hold hands in public. It's called PDA (public display of affection) and will get you disciplined most places you try it.

Actually, I would prefer neither heterosexuals nor homosexuals hold hands in public. It's called PDA (public display of affection) and will get you disciplined most places you try it.
Disciplined? What police state do you live in? :p

I don't get the problem people have with public displays of affection. If you don't like it, don't look...

Disciplined? What police state do you live in? :p

I don't get the problem people have with public displays of affection. If you don't like it, don't look...

Yeah, what the fuck is wrong with it? The strongest form of censorship is yourself. If you don't want to see something, just look away.

Yeah, what the fuck is wrong with it? The strongest form of censorship is yourself. If you don't want to see something, just look away.
I think some people enjoy being outraged.. Kind of like why I read editorials/letters in the Daily Telegraph (a tabloid snotrag).

That said, I've had experiences with people who seem to enjoy watching a little too much... *shudder*

I think some people enjoy being outraged.. Kind of like why I read editorials/letters in the Daily Telegraph (a tabloid snotrag).

That said, I've had experiences with people who seem to enjoy watching a little too much... *shudder*

I know what you're getting at. Sometimes, even I enjoy getting pissed off, but I'll never censor anybody because of it.

And yeah, people who enjoy "watching" just a bit too much... Yeeeah...

I think some people enjoy being outraged.. Kind of like why I read editorials/letters in the Daily Telegraph (a tabloid snotrag).

That said, I've had experiences with people who seem to enjoy watching a little too much... *shudder*
The Daily Telegraph? Tabloid? What planet do you live on. Okay, so it's the Daily Torygraph, I'll give you that, but it's still a class above The Sun, Daily Mail, et al.

Disciplined? What police state do you live in? :p

I don't get the problem people have with public displays of affection. If you don't like it, don't look...
honestly, what ever happened to the idea of personal responsibility? why are there so many people whimpering that they can't possibly turn their eyes away from the hideous sight of two people kissing on a public street? why are so many people leaping at the chance to brag about their own helplessness, and to parade their need for laws that protect their virgin eyes and tender little feelings?

It's because they're assholes. They don't want others to have fun, simply because they don't. They want the world to be shaped in their visions. They want everything to be their definition of "perfect".

They are shit.

The Daily Telegraph? Tabloid? What planet do you live on. Okay, so it's the Daily Torygraph, I'll give you that, but it's still a class above The Sun, Daily Mail, et al.
Sometimes its better to read where people are from or shut up. ;)
Aussie-Graph (http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/index.jsp)
Tommy-Graph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/portal/main.jhtml;sessionid=ZHWTBHSVUTJVXQFIQMGCM5WAVCBQUJVC?view=HOME&grid=P13&menuId=-1&menuItemId=-1&_requestid=27829)

Did you ever stop to consider that people don't all do things for shock value but simply because that is who they are?
love, trust, and relationships not based on penis-vagina interaction are "shocking" to a great many people. these same people also feel that they are the center of the universe, and clearly all actions taken by other people are entirely devoted to attracting their attention; nobody could possibly be pursuing freedom or equal rights for their own sake...it MUST be that they are out to "shock" the all-important uberconservatives who sit at the hub of existence.

Sometimes its better to read where people are from or shut up. ;)
Aussie-Graph (http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/index.jsp)
Tommy-Graph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/portal/main.jhtml;sessionid=ZHWTBHSVUTJVXQFIQMGCM5WAVCBQUJVC?view=HOME&grid=P13&menuId=-1&menuItemId=-1&_requestid=27829)
Oh bollocks. Silly me.

I knew he was an Aussie too - I just had a lapse in memory momentarily.

In my second year at uni, I lived with a Greek, a Ugandan, a Jew and a Spaniard. The Greek guy was very camp, but I didn't give it much thought as I really didn't care whether he was gay or not. I knew it would be obvious pretty quickly.

After a couple of days I got up for a run, and he'd left a note on his door:

HEY GUYS, I'M GAY SO JUST DEAL WITH IT

I just thought, "Yeah, whatever," and went out for my run. I got back and the Spaniard was shitting himself, thinking one of us had upset him, causing him to write the note. I ate my corn flakes.

Very quickly, we all learnt the main reason for the note (well, the second main reason). The year before, one of his flatmates had gone almost the entire year without knowing this bloke was gay. I don't know how; he obviously never stuck his head round the door and saw all the pictures from The Gay Times stuck all over the walls. When he eventually found out, he got upset and moved out. Twat.

The next year I lived with a guy I had known for three years. I got back from the Easter holidays to find a note stuck on my door. Well, it was more of a letter, really, rambling on about how he didn't feel comfortable living alone, and was glad I was back, and then eventually got around to "so basically, what I'm saying is I'm gay," right at the bottom of the letter. I thought, "Yeah, whatever," because it shouldn't affect my relationship with him.

The reason coming out is a bigger deal than it needs to be is simply that everyone else makes it a bigger deal than it needs to be. Who gives a shit? I don't.

Well you did. Because for about the tenth time, that was a misuse of words and is not what I meant. Please read my posts clarifying this before you talk about what I did and did not say.

I copied that sentence directly from your post, so I believe that this is firmly entrenched in the "what I did say" camp.

And I don't need to go through this thread to know that you alternately posted that the holocaust and the present situation with gay rights were similar, and then denying making a comparison between the two.

I don't really want to quote all of your posts to recap for you.

I copied that sentence directly from your post, so I believe that this is firmly entrenched in the "what I did say" camp.

And I don't need to go through this thread to know that you alternately posted that the holocaust and the present situation with gay rights were similar, and then denying making a comparison between the two.

I don't really want to quote all of your posts to recap for you.

Have you ever mispoken and then had your words taken out of context? Obvously not because its not a pleasant situation--particulrly when you try to correct yourself but people refuse to listen.

Yes, that sentence was directly from a post and was something I did not mean the way it sounded. I've said that and apologized for it. I then went on to explain myself further. But you obviously don't care about that--all you want to do is to continue with drama. You kind of remind me of Neo Cannen--you don't read anything other people post unless you can use it to prove whatever lie you are trying to prove.

Why is it important for some gays to announce that they are gay. Or coming out of the closet! I'm gay! We must have special rights for gays! Who really cares. Why are gay issues centers of some gay thinking. You are the same as us heterosexuals. You just happen to like the same sex. Other than that you have all the same aspirations and social whims as the rest of society. What do I care? Really I do get tired of the special interest that some gays crave. Am I missing something here? Or am I just being to over sensitive to all the hype?
a point that should be clarified for all people who as Marrakech II does:

gay pride isn't about being proud that you have gay sex. gay pride isn't about being proud that you were born with a certain sexual orientation. gay pride is about being proud of your ability to be honest about yourself despite the horrendous pressures against you.

it's like how black pride wasn't about people bragging, "look at me! i was born with more melanin in my skin than you have!" black pride was about standing up for one's beliefs and one's freedoms, about refusing to hide or compromise your values, and leading by conspicuous example.

Yeah! You gays are just heterosexual!

You Finn! You're just saying that because you're from Finland!

Let's call everyone names, shall we?

Have you ever mispoken and then had your words taken out of context? Obvously not because its not a pleasant situation--particulrly when you try to correct yourself but people refuse to listen.

Yes, that sentence was directly from a post and was something I did not mean the way it sounded. I've said that and apologized for it. I then went on to explain myself further. But you obviously don't care about that--all you want to do is to continue with drama. You kind of remind me of Neo Cannen--you don't read anything other people post unless you can use it to prove whatever lie you are trying to prove.

You made the first post and I called it hyperbole and tried to point out that any comparisons made to the holocaust, nazis, or hitler, even if they are relavent, will do more to distract from your argument than help it.

You then went on to post:

The holocaust was in the same category--but many, Many, MANY orders of magnitude worse.

MISTREATMENT OF GAYS = BREECH HUMAN RIGHTS MANY MAGNITUDES LOWER THAN HOLOCAUST

Similiarities exist. I'm not going to pretend they don't.

While all are true statements they are very, very poor arguments, which was the point I was trying to make, and they are comparisons to the holocaust, so quit posting that you made no such comparisons.

because homosexuals face discrimination and bigotry almost on a level heterosexuals can only imagine

so 'gay pride' is something that will happen until homosexuals are fully accepted as no different as a member of society to heterosexuals
Yup.

First it's an issue.
Then it's accepted.
Then it's not an issue anymore.

The last step can't happen without the first two.

Disciplined? What police state do you live in? :p

He lives in the People's Republic of Vermont.

Yup.

First it's an issue.
Then it's accepted.
Then it's not an issue anymore.

The last step can't happen without the first two.
and the gays are the ones who want to get to the last step the most. homophobes don't seem to realize how much the gay community does NOT want to have this be an issue any more.

There are several reasons, one of which is the homophobia of much of america and the climate of opression it creates for homosexials.

Another is the fact that people are not afforded the same civil rights as straight people with regards to their relationships.

Gay people are through being kept down and expected to feel shame about who they are, this is essentially a backlash that will help to normalize society for people.

america may have an "opressive" attitude towards s however the rights granted by marridge are designed to aid the upbringing of a family so i dont see how it would help s

america may have an "opressive" attitude towards s however the rights granted by marridge are designed to aid the upbringing of a family so i dont see how it would help s


Really, could you list some of those rights? Cause obviously you don't know anything about the rights of marriage or how many of them actually having nothing to do with children.

Further by this (lack of) logic, infertile people or those who simply don't want kids shouldn't get married either.

Perhaps we're differing on our definition of comparison. I was no using the Holocaust as a reason to justify giving gay rights. You are saying because I see similarities in the fact that both the current matter at hand and the Holocaust were both breeches of human rights, I must be using it as an arguement. Go read my first post again and see that it was in the context of responding to someone else about the temporal frame of the Holocaust and the current arguement of gay rights and the way that the people who are affected respond.

And further, I fail to see why this had to be brought up again when I felt that we had worked it out last night. This might be childish, but bring it up again and get hit my ignore cannon.

I always thought the standard definition for making a comparison was to point out the similarities.

I feel like arguing it today because I am feeling argumentative, and because I was right, am still right, and will continue to be right. Meanwhile you continue to deny that you did make a comparison between the two issues, and effectively ignoring any point I am trying to make.

Hello, Ignore List!!!

not saying that the shouldnt have something resembling marridge so that possesions and stuff dont go to the partner automatically when 1 dies but here in the UK if people are married and stuff they get taxbreaks and stuff like that to help them raise children and many couples dont know that they are infertile till a long time after they have married

The holocaust and the denial of gay rights are indeed comparable. During the holocaust gays were also hunted and killed. During the holocaust it went so far as to kill plenty minorities, among them also jews. Jews were treated like 2nd class citizens, their property taken away from them and ultimately their life.

While gays today are not killed anymore - at least in the western world - the status as it is can be compared to the holocaust and it is totally unacceptable.

not saying that the shouldnt have something resembling marridge so that possesions and stuff dont go to the partner automatically when 1 dies but here in the UK if people are married and stuff they get taxbreaks and stuff like that to help them raise children and many couples dont know that they are infertile till a long time after they have married

And you get those taxbreaks once you have kids. You get other ones if you are married--but those you get whether or not you have kids. Further, you can have kids OUT of wedlock and STILL get tax breaks for having kids. Add to that that gays CAN have kids. . .and gee. . .what was the point of your arguement agin?

america may have an "opressive" attitude towards s however the rights granted by marridge are designed to aid the upbringing of a family so i dont see how it would help s
marriage, in America, does not require ability or intent to have children. i am currently in a straight relationship, and i think it might come to marriage at some point in the future, but i do not ever plan to make babies. my marriage rights are not predicated on my willingness to procreate.

Well the relationship validity problem. Well marriage is a "Church" business. If a church wants to allow it then fine. Other than that the US government should change Federal "marriage" to Federal "civil unions". Allow anyone to marry any other type of person. This may be coming down the road I think.


yeah then people can marry their dogs too. Hurrah! Well why not? I mean if it's ok with homosexuals, what makes dogs any different? In fact, why not have a complete moral and standardical breakdown of everything in society, so people can do whatever they want. Why restrict anything? You're right. People should be able to do whatever they want. Why shouldnt murderers be able to live in the bedroom next to your children? Why cant they just get a slap on the wrist and sent home next door? I mean it all sounds good. Think about it, they are put down too and subjected to so many bad things and societal scrutiny. They dont get their own TV shows, or message boards to boast of their pride. Hmmm perhaps you should consider just how much freedom you want and think about the fundimental basics society needs in order to maintain other people's basic civil rights. And get over yourselves.

And you get those taxbreaks once you have kids. You get other ones if you are married--but those you get whether or not you have kids. Further, you can have kids OUT of wedlock and STILL get tax breaks for having kids. Add to that that gays CAN have kids. . .and gee. . .what was the point of your arguement agin?
oh Pracus, sometimes i just want to fluffle the hell out of you...

Ein Deutscher']The holocaust and the denial of gay rights are indeed comparable. During the holocaust gays were also hunted and killed. During the holocaust it went so far as to kill plenty minorities, among them also jews. Jews were treated like 2nd class citizens, their property taken away from them and ultimately their life.

While gays today are not killed anymore - at least in the western world - the status as it is can be compared to the holocaust and it is totally unacceptable.

While gays are not killed in mass, there are some still killed for being gay. However, I wouldn't bother to get involved with this. You will just start arguing with someone who will only refer to the first thing you said and then will ignore when you try to clear up your point. He isn't intreested in debate or clearing the situation, only in . . .well I'm not really sure what he is interested in beyond drama.

yeah then people can marry their dogs too. Hurrah! Well why not? I mean if it's ok with homosexuals, what makes dogs any different?

animals cannot enter into legal contracts. homosexual adults can.


In fact, why not have a complete moral and standardical breakdown of everything in society, so people can do whatever they want. Why restrict anything? You're right. People should be able to do whatever they want. Why shouldnt murderers be able to live in the bedroom next to your children? Why cant they just get a slap on the wrist and sent home next door? I mean it all sounds good. Think about it, they are put down too and subjected to so many bad things and societal scrutiny. They dont get their own TV shows, or message boards to boast of their pride. Hmmm perhaps you should consider just how much freedom you want and think about the fundimental basics society needs in order to maintain other people's basic civil rights. And get over yourselves.
the slippery slope falacy is boring. you are embarassing yourself. try something new.