NationStates Jolt Archive

I was just wondering if/how the UN will fall...any good ideas, besides 'America leaves it, the whole system collapses?'

Burn the U.N. building down? :D

Same way "The Leauge of Nations" did. They will fail to stop a major war, and then nations will lose interest in it.

It will end when a certain country becomes too powerful. It won't "end", per se, but it will become useless.
This is not to say that the US will be the end of the UN. There is the distinct possibility of superpower China in twenty years, and perhaps a resurgent Russia. The UN is at its best in maintaining balances of power.

The UN is at its best in maintaining balances of power.
But this power balance stems from how the UN is effectively destroying the sovereignty of its own nations - instead of these nations becoming more powerful, they are all subject to the political power of the UN..

Someone will nuke New York, all the representatives, the leaders of the U.N., etc, will die. Most of it's infrastructure will collapse. Without the U.N. leadership in place, various countries will leave and start invading people, committing crimes, etc.

never mind how, what'd the world be like without it, knowing that any sod with a lot of money can bomb the hell out of anyone, without a hand saying 'no' to stop him or her.
Scary

I think if the Bush administration continues like it currently does, the UN will be brought down by the US government (I reckon it is the Bush administration - above anything else on the world which has an anti-UN-sentiment due to their America-first ideology). In any case, if the UN falls, I assume that it will sooner or later be replaced with a (hopefully more effective) successor. The funny part comes when it comes to naming it then. ;)

"How will the UN end?"

With a whimper. :D

Same way "The Leauge of Nations" did. They will fail to stop a major war, and then nations will lose interest in it.

Looking at the situation in the Middle East (if a major war is going to happen anywhere on the globe, it's going to happen there), that possibility actually doesn't seem too unlikely. But even then, I guess there will be some kind of successor. The League of Nations was succeeded by the UN, and if the UN falls it will likely be replaced with some other organizations.

After all, there's a certain necessity for a world organization.

When top leaders of the world realise that it's a joke and just stop turning up.

I don't think the UN will end per se. But I think a major restructuring and wholesale house cleaning may be in order. If not then this "UN" will fail and a new one will take its place. Corruption only has a limited life span before its dealt with.

When everyone realises the americans control it.... :D
U.S.A :mp5:

But this power balance stems from how the UN is effectively destroying the sovereignty of its own nations - instead of these nations becoming more powerful, they are all subject to the political power of the UN..
But if the two opposite powers are ideaologically different, as during the Cold War, the UN is at its best. It focuses its attention on solving truely disturbing problems, and leaves domestic and social affairs alone. For example, the US pulled out of UNESCO for authorizing "communist propaganda". Whether or not this is true does not matter, as that is the UN's main social arm. For a while, no intrusive social work could be done at the UN.

When top leaders of the world realise that it's a joke and just stop turning up.


Thats already happened. Leaders/countries only go the UN when they cany negotiate their problems on their own.

Its already basically dead. It died when the cold war did. Why should the US and China or Russia go to the UN? They will either work out their problems or make news and THEN work out their problems. Side note, Russia doesnt count so much but I grew up in the 70s/80s so I cant help myself.

The true world powers(USA,UK,France,Germany,Spain.China.India,Russia??, Italy ect ) can work out their own issues. All the UN ever did was act as a sounding board for the pathetic worthless countries. This had a use durng the cold war, it doesnt now.

The UN is dying from lck of any usefull function, not because it is being targetted by a specific country

You give way too many countries "world power" status.

Germany, France, Spain, and Italy? Hardly...

The US is above all else...with China, the UK, and Russia having their own little shares.

A session will get heated, turn into a slapfight, and have the US ambassador run out of the building, crying and scream like a little girl. Then the US will threaten war, China will surprise everyone by having top-secret stockpiles of antimatter bombs they hid from the Americans by putting them in plain sight and laughing as Pentagon spies kept tripping over them while looking for top-secret weapons stockpiles, and the war will end with America as a radioactive crater, Europe dying of alcohol poisoning from the ensuing celebrations, and the Chinese going bankrupt because everyone they sell to are dead.

You give way too many countries "world power" status.

Germany, France, Spain, and Italy? Hardly...

The US is above all else...with China, the UK, and Russia having their own little shares.

The UK?!?

Hello? The days of the British Empire are long since over. ;)

The UK?!?

Hello? The days of the British Empire are long since over. ;)

Even so, their economy is still powerful and they "matter" in the sense of world politics.

A session will get heated, turn into a slapfight, and have the US ambassador run out of the building, crying and scream like a little girl. Then the US will threaten war, China will surprise everyone by having top-secret stockpiles of antimatter bombs they hid from the Americans by putting them in plain sight and laughing as Pentagon spies kept tripping over them while looking for top-secret weapons stockpiles, and the war will end with America as a radioactive crater, Europe dying of alcohol poisoning from the ensuing celebrations, and the Chinese going bankrupt because everyone they sell to are dead.


Look, I hate to tell you this but it is only EU types that get bitch slapped..and then take it.

US, AUZ, Chinese, Japanese, and now Indians will put a world of hurt on you pansy EU(lets talk about it types). Apparantly I have to include the Spanish into this(something I never thought would happen, they used to be tough guys)

Edit:

and let not even talk about the Eastern Europeans. They will rock your world simply out of boredom. The girly men(politics wise) of "Old" Europe better watch out. There is a faster/better/more motivated crowd out there. And they arent playing by te rules you are used to.

Look, I hate to tell you this but it is only EU types that get bitch slapped..and then take it.

US, AUZ, Chinese, Japanese, and now Indians will put a world of hurt on you pansy EU(lets talk about it types). Apparantly I have to include the Spanish into this(something I never thought would happen, they used to be tough guys)

Edit:

and let not even talk about the Eastern Europeans. They will rock your world simply out of boredom. The girly men(politics wise) of "Old" Europe better watch out. There is a faster/better/more motivated crowd out there. And they arent playing by te rules you are used to.

Wow. Grow a sense of humor. Seriously.

This isn't spam:

The United Nations will fall when I order it to..the entire world is at my command..fear me..


In all reality the UN is facing the problems of the League of Nations. Nations *cough* United States *cough* *cough*Russia*cough* are getting overly ambitious.

Apparantly I have to include the Spanish into this(something I never thought would happen, they used to be tough guys)

You don't have to include the Spanish...just include Zapatero and his Socialist crew... in three years the Socialist will be out and the PP will be back.

Bah. The last time that happened, all that someone did was invade half of Europe, believe they were going to conquer the world, and then have their heads handed to them when a bunch of people who stayed out of it stepped in at the last moment.

i think it will go down like Scarface in some way

scenario 1: americans revolt and re-establish democracy and routing out the bad polotics, or communisum is formed (since communisum was founded by the skulls and corssbones groups).

scenario 2: Un is desolved into a higher system, meening Earth and space group.

Same way "The Leauge of Nations" did. They will fail to stop a major war, and then nations will lose interest in it.
The League of Nations was different. It became useless as soon as it was formed, because Wilson couldn't convince congress to join. You're forgetting that the UN isn't just a "war and peace" organization. It also does a huge amount of social justice work.

Burn the U.N. building down? :D
I think that UN, if it ends at all, will fade away rather than burn out. (And Neil Young would be sad.)

US, AUZ, Chinese, Japanese, and now Indians will put a world of hurt on you pansy EU(lets talk about it types). Apparantly I have to include the Spanish into this(something I never thought would happen, they used to be tough guys)

Edit:

and let not even talk about the Eastern Europeans. They will rock your world simply out of boredom. The girly men(politics wise) of "Old" Europe better watch out. There is a faster/better/more motivated crowd out there. And they arent playing by te rules you are used to.
What's wrong with talking about it? You are a bloodthirsty warmongering American sitting in your armchair you think war is "fun" and "cool"?

BTW, you also are ignorant. Most of the Eastern Europeans are in the EU.

i think it will go down like Scarface in some way

Like this?

*Kofi Annan walks on to podium"

"Die, you f*cking cokaroaches!"

*Kofi Annan pulls out M16/'nade launcher and blows up the U.S., France, and China delegations in one shot*

*other delegations shoot back*

"I am invincible!"

*Denmark delegation walks up behind Kofi Annan and shoots him in back*

When the United Federation of Planets supercedes it.

bumpz0rzz

Someone will demand Veto rights(Mainly China-i dont know if they have or have not got them) and not get them!-which will cause them to leave and attack Taiwan noone bar the US and a few others will help and the Un will be declared inept!

Someone will demand Veto rights(Mainly China-i dont know if they have or have not got them) and not get them!-which will cause them to leave and attack Taiwan noone bar the US and a few others will help and the Un will be declared inept!

China has 'em.

They've had em since the U.N. was made.

but it will become useless.

Has become useless is more like it.

...they are all subject to the political power of the UN..

What power does the UN have? Please give me some examples of their power.

After all, there's a certain necessity for a world organization.4

What is the "necessity for a world organization?"

[QUOTE=Mystic Mindinao It focuses its attention on solving truely disturbing problems, and leaves domestic and social affairs alone. [/QUOTE]

Please cite one "disturbing problem" the UN has solved.

Has become useless is more like it.
It is now, yes. But it won't always be that way. There are a few big powers rising, and it will only be a few decades before they can rival the US. And they are not like the Soviet Union, where they have big muscles but no spine or spirit. China is gaining all three.

Please cite one "disturbing problem" the UN has solved.
The Yemeni conflict of the 1970s. It helped negotiate a truce between the two Yemens in their war. It also stopped the Turkish invasion of Cyprus, which NATO alone had a hard time doing.

The UK?!?

Hello? The days of the British Empire are long since over. ;)

Yes, the days of the British Empire are over, but that doesn't mean the UK isn't a world power. (PS I'm American not from the UK)

Someone will nuke New York, all the representatives, the leaders of the U.N., etc, will die. Most of it's infrastructure will collapse. Without the U.N. leadership in place, various countries will leave and start invading people, committing crimes, etc.

Shit, someone found out my plan.

(Mainly China-i dont know if they have or have not got them)

Yes, China is one of the members of the Security Council that has veto power.

It is now, yes. But it won't always be that way. There are a few big powers rising, and it will only be a few decades before they can rival the US. And they are not like the Soviet Union, where they have big muscles but no spine or spirit. China is gaining all three.

Other than China, who are these rising powers?

The Yemeni conflict of the 1970s. It helped negotiate a truce between the two Yemens in their war. It also stopped the Turkish invasion of Cyprus, which NATO alone had a hard time doing.

And? Just two disturbing incidents in their entire existence? Let’s see the UN was established in 1947? This is 2005. They solved two “disturbing incidents” in 58 years. That doesn’t seem like much of an accomplishment to me.

Other than China, who are these rising powers?
Russia has the potential, though if Vladimir Putin stays in office, it will never get past a regional power. India is certainly on the march, and in the race for power, it enjoys advantages over China: a strong banking sector, and educated populace, and a democratic tradition. It has many problems, but so does China. Also, Brazil may rise. It probably won't ever be a superpower, but it can definitly be a very strong actor in Latin America, and it shows few signs of cooperating with the US, or even anyone else other than its South American brethren.

Europe is also getting its act back together, as a regional block but, instead of seperate nations.

With regard to the UN ending, nope. Everyone is looking at the security council as the whole UN, but it is only a tiny (although) most notable part. Even is the SC goes away, the rest of it will still be there and is still important.

Either that or <insert absurd comment about aliens or termites here destroying/replacing the UN here>.

It will end when a certain country becomes too powerful. It won't "end", per se, but it will become useless.
This is not to say that the US will be the end of the UN. There is the distinct possibility of superpower China in twenty years, and perhaps a resurgent Russia. The UN is at its best in maintaining balances of power.
You mean the UN is still useful?

Also, Brazil may rise. It probably won't ever be a superpower, but it can definitly be a very strong actor in Latin America, and it shows few signs of cooperating with the US, or even anyone else other than its South American brethren.

Brazil could become a major player in world politics if it can overcome its economic problems.

By the way, did you know that Brazil is now the third leading aircraft manufacturer in the world?

The UN will undoubtably fall in the invetable proletariat revolution

China has 'em.

They've had em since the U.N. was made.
Really thats an outrage surely Taiwan should have them aswell being the real China!

And? Just two disturbing incidents in their entire existence? Let’s see the UN was established in 1947? This is 2005. They solved two “disturbing incidents” in 58 years. That doesn’t seem like much of an accomplishment to me.You asked for just one example of the U.N. solving something, and he gave you two. So now you want him to go and discover more? Obviously you can't be satisfied.

The U.N. only gives what the nations that belong to it put into it. Right now, we aren't putting a whole helluva lot. So we aren't GETTING a whole helluva lot. And I'm not just talking monetarily.

I can't see it ending, unless the US decides to ignore it completly, and a few nations decide to follow.

Oops, already happened!

unless they clean up their act and get back to their purpose.... they'll end in a fireball of scandal and corruption.

I don't know how that Titanic is going down, but the sooner, the better.

I was just wondering if/how the UN will fall...any good ideas, besides 'America leaves it, the whole system collapses?'


Just leave America out of it. The UN is more anti-America than pro-America. At best, all we in the states can do is forcefully evict them and not be a part of it. I think China will be more of a power threat to the UN than us in a few years. I'd say the most likely way the UN will end will be if it ever tries to place itself as the leader of earth (for lack of a better term). That will be the one and only time that the powers that be all agree and tell them to go pack sand.

The UN will end when world war 3 breaks out. There is no telling how that will happen. For years people assumed world war 3 would be the inevitable collision between NATO and Warsaw Pact countries. With the collapse of the soviet union that has become an impossibility. There is no telling how it will break out, but when another global conflict does break out, the UN will break up and something new will be created to replace it. Unless world war 3 brings with it a nuclear winter and a Mad Max -like scenario.

I dont give much credence to this US leaving the UN bit because only neocons are interested in this, and they only have 4 more years in power. Even if they left the UN, the next president would be likely to rejoin.

I dont give much credence to this US leaving the UN bit because only neocons are interested in this, and they only have 4 more years in power.
You might do well knowing that most of us libertarians also want the US to leave the UN. Our primary reasons however, is just to reclaim the sovereignty that the UN takes away from its member nations. And that we fear centralized the power in the UN.

Unlike the neocons you speak of, we'd practice isolationism.

You might do well knowing that most of us libertarians also want the US to leave the UN. Our primary reasons however, is just to reclaim the sovereignty that the UN takes away from its member nations. And that we fear centralized the power in the UN.

Unlike the neocons you speak of, we'd practice isolationism.

Wait... you'd withdraw from an organisation designed to provide world stability, then practice isolationism. (Yes, I know the US was never actually a part of the LoN)

1939 anyone?

Whats this big deal about sovereignty anyway? It seems that whenever a country is doing something morally reprehensible it can scream "sovereignty" and get away with it. Sovereignty was the argument Eichmann used at Nuremburg to justify extermination. Sovereignty is the argument Milosevic is using at the Hague.

At a certain point people have to step back and realise that a state forfeits it rights as a state when it ceases to serve the people it was created to defend.

The UN was formed to do what the League of Nations could not - possess the legitimate right to intervene. The most likely scenario for it's ending is another major war, followed by an organisation being created with even more powers for intervention. And with any luck, no veto powers for anybody.

And? Just two disturbing incidents in their entire existence? Let’s see the UN was established in 1947? This is 2005. They solved two “disturbing incidents” in 58 years. That doesn’t seem like much of an accomplishment to me.
Well, there were far more. Those two were the first that came to mind.
Anyhow, one was the Suez Crisis of 1956. They helped to difuse the situation and got the withdrawl of British and French troops. The Korean War was one they greatly assisted in. While the military aspect was mainly work by the US, the UN had a big part in starting the war. The structure was enough to scare the Soviets away from vetoing the resolution for action in Korea, which they most certainly would have liked to do. There was also their role in negotiating a settlement for the Korean Airlines passangers who lost their lives to a Soviet missile, as well as being a catalyst for arms control. They also had a confusing role in the Middle East. On the one hand, they helped create Israel. On the other, they utterly condemned it thirty years later.

You mean the UN is still useful?
No. The UN is a piece of garbage right now. But it will be useful in twenty or thirty years.

And? Just two disturbing incidents in their entire existence? Let’s see the UN was established in 1947? This is 2005. They solved two “disturbing incidents” in 58 years. That doesn’t seem like much of an accomplishment to me.
You only asked for one, not an entire list of them.

You only asked for one, not an entire list of them.
Lay off him. Inquiring minds need to know.

It won't, especially if Nationalism is eliminated.

from what I know, the UN wil collapse because of the European Union.

Wow. Grow a sense of humor. Seriously.

If you hadnt noticed, my response was basically tongue in cheek. Maybe you should work on developing your own sense of humour.

What's wrong with talking about it? You are a bloodthirsty warmongering American sitting in your armchair you think war is "fun" and "cool"?

BTW, you also are ignorant. Most of the Eastern Europeans are in the EU.

They might be in the EU, but they are cut from differant cloth.