NationStates Jolt Archive

Point 1) Buffy often seems to think that Slaying is an unpleasant court-ordered assignment, vital and necessary but not something she enjoys doing. Angel works at it with a passion.

Point 2) The Angel series give an entirely new view of the demons they face. Buffy focuses entirely on their demon activities, rarely viewing them in the non-Terror inducing parts of their lives. In Angel you often see the basic (and normal) lives of the demons, including them having day jobs, going to bars, eating buffalo wings, and watcing 'the game'. It's got much more depth than Buffy's approach.

3) Angels 'crew' makes much more sense. In Buffy nobody really has any skills to bring to the show (Excepting Willow and her Uber-Magic). Xander, Willow (In the earlier seasons), Cordelia, Anya, and the rest (Excepting her occasional Vampire boyfriend or genetically improved Super-soldier) have no real skills involved with fighting demons. If you're going to go into combat you want somebody with combat experience (and skill) at your side, not a group of friends tagging along for the ride. In Angel everybody has either a history or skill with demons. Doyle is part demon himself and has visions from the Powers, Cordelia gets the visions after Doyle and eventually becomes part demon (But that does come back to bite her in the ass), Gunn has been fighting Vampires long before joining Angel and is a kick ass fighter, Wesley has a nearly unequaled knowledge of demon history, language, and physiology and eventually grows to be a really competent fighter (I'd put him just after Angel in the shows fighting roster), and Fred is just freakishly brilliant with some scary survival abilities.

4) Buffy tries to have a life first and then Slaying, Angel puts his duties as a fighter first. I'm not saying Buffy is neglectful in her Slaying duties (At least not in the latter half of the series) but she always tries to work it around her friends/job/school instead of the reverse. Angel fits his job and social responsibilities around his Do-Gooding, even so far as getting a job fighting demons.

4) Angel isn't such a pansy. Buffy's creators and script writers often tried to portray her as a normal girl forced to overcome shocking obstacles, acting like she's no better than any other women on the show (I mean physically, not 'worth'). Angels writers realize that he's stronger/faster/smarter/durabel-er (How would you say 'more durable' in a single word?) than almost anybody else on the show and use it.

5) Angel has to deal with real world issues (kinda). One episode of Buffy had her and Cordelia almost killing each other trying to win Homecomeing Queen. The most extreme thing Buffy faces (In her normal life) is being denied a bank loan and working minimum wage. Angel has to figure out how to care for a child, care for several people who are completely reliant upon him financially, and not be torn to death by lawyers. Compared to what Angel faces I think working in Burger King isn't so bad.

6) Angel kicks ass.

7) Not everything ends with a happy ending in Angel. Don't get me wrong, Buffy has had its sad points (Joyce dying, Anya and Xander breaking up, Riley leaving, etc.) but everything always seems to work out in the end. In Angel when things go bad they stay bad and they don't get better without a hell of a lot of hard work. Hell, the series ends with the entire crew either dead or about to be massacred by an unstoppable army composed of thousands upon thousands of demons (You know, I really do want to see how that battle ends). Buffy just seems so much more lighter in comparison. That series ends with only Anya dead and the rest of them giggling at how shockingly easily they just beat an army of unstoppable demons and now have an entire army of Vampire Slayers at their disposal.

8) Angel still kicks ass.

9) Wesleys transformation. Unless I missed something the entire Buffy series has none of the characters changing in the tiniest bit (personality-wise, I mean). The entire cast acts the same in the series finale as they do at the start of the show. Xanader jokes, Willow babbles, Giles lectures, etc. In Angel people change, as they do in real life. Cordelia goes from being a self-obsessed bitch to a caring person who sees the bigger picture, Wesley goes from a nerd (Even I think he's a nerd) to a self-composed and competent fighter then to an alcoholic struggling with self-worth issues then back to the second then back to the third, Fred goes from a nearly psychotic and cowering girl to a woman who is able to grasp and turn unpleasant situations in a second. Even minor characters change (Like Lilah and Lesely) and have sides of their personalities revealed that we never see once in Buffy.

10) Did I mention Angel kicks ass?

Thank you, and I apologize for wasting so much of your time.

Point 1) Buffy often seems to think that Slaying is an unpleasant court-ordered assignment, vital and necessary but not something she enjoys doing. Angel works at it with a passion.

Point 2) The Angel series give an entirely new view of the demons they face. Buffy focuses entirely on their demon activities, rarely viewing them in the non-Terror inducing parts of their lives. In Angel you often see the basic (and normal) lives of the demons, including them having day jobs, going to bars, eating buffalo wings, and watcing 'the game'. It's got much more depth than Buffy's approach.

3) Angels 'crew' makes much more sense. In Buffy nobody really has any skills to bring to the show (Excepting Willow and her Uber-Magic). Xander, Willow (In the earlier seasons), Cordelia, Anya, and the rest (Excepting her occasional Vampire boyfriend or genetically improved Super-soldier) have no real skills involved with fighting demons. If you're going to go into combat you want somebody with combat experience (and skill) at your side, not a group of friends tagging along for the ride. In Angel everybody has either a history or skill with demons. Doyle is part demon himself and has visions from the Powers, Cordelia gets the visions after Doyle and eventually becomes part demon (But that does come back to bite her in the ass), Gunn has been fighting Vampires long before joining Angel and is a kick ass fighter, Wesley has a nearly unequaled knowledge of demon history, language, and physiology and eventually grows to be a really competent fighter (I'd put him just after Angel in the shows fighting roster), and Fred is just freakishly brilliant with some scary survival abilities.

4) Buffy tries to have a life first and then Slaying, Angel puts his duties as a fighter first. I'm not saying Buffy is neglectful in her Slaying duties (At least not in the latter half of the series) but she always tries to work it around her friends/job/school instead of the reverse. Angel fits his job and social responsibilities around his Do-Gooding, even so far as getting a job fighting demons.

4) Angel isn't such a pansy. Buffy's creators and script writers often tried to portray her as a normal girl forced to overcome shocking obstacles, acting like she's no better than any other women on the show (I mean physically, not 'worth'). Angels writers realize that he's stronger/faster/smarter/durabel-er (How would you say 'more durable' in a single word?) than almost anybody else on the show and use it.

5) Angel has to deal with real world issues (kinda). One episode of Buffy had her and Cordelia almost killing each other trying to win Homecomeing Queen. The most extreme thing Buffy faces (In her normal life) is being denied a bank loan and working minimum wage. Angel has to figure out how to care for a child, care for several people who are completely reliant upon him financially, and not be torn to death by lawyers. Compared to what Angel faces I think working in Burger King isn't so bad.

6) Angel kicks ass.

7) Not everything ends with a happy ending in Angel. Don't get me wrong, Buffy has had its sad points (Joyce dying, Anya and Xander breaking up, Riley leaving, etc.) but everything always seems to work out in the end. In Angel when things go bad they stay bad and they don't get better without a hell of a lot of hard work. Hell, the series ends with the entire crew either dead or about to be massacred by an unstoppable army composed of thousands upon thousands of demons (You know, I really do want to see how that battle ends). Buffy just seems so much more lighter in comparison. That series ends with only Anya dead and the rest of them giggling at how shockingly easily they just beat an army of unstoppable demons and now have an entire army of Vampire Slayers at their disposal.

8) Angel still kicks ass.

9) Wesleys transformation. Unless I missed something the entire Buffy series has none of the characters changing in the tiniest bit (personality-wise, I mean). The entire cast acts the same in the series finale as they do at the start of the show. Xanader jokes, Willow babbles, Giles lectures, etc. In Angel people change, as they do in real life. Cordelia goes from being a self-obsessed bitch to a caring person who sees the bigger picture, Wesley goes from a nerd (Even I think he's a nerd) to a self-composed and competent fighter then to an alcoholic struggling with self-worth issues then back to the second then back to the third, Fred goes from a nearly psychotic and cowering girl to a woman who is able to grasp and turn unpleasant situations in a second. Even minor characters change (Like Lilah and Lesely) and have sides of their personalities revealed that we never see once in Buffy.

10) Did I mention Angel kicks ass?

Thank you, and I apologize for wasting so much of your time.
Angel was cancelled... last year, I think! Did you not get the memo? And Buffy is OVER now, last epi aired year before last. SMG punked out, the little twit! :mad:

First, you really don't need to quote the entire opening post in the second post.

Second, yes I know they're both over, I mention it more than once in the first post.

First, you really don't need to quote the entire opening post in the second post.

Second, yes I know they're both over, I mention it more than once in the first post.
Than maybe you should compare shows that are still running??? :confused:

No, I see no reason to. Well, I actually do and have done so quite often, but I don't see why their status as 'cancelled' should effect anything.

Than maybe you should compare shows that are still running??? :confused:
FUK U NAZI!

No, seriously though, if it still has reruns then you can still talk about it. And both still have reruns.

FUK U NAZI!

No, seriously though, if it still has reruns then you can still talk about it. And both still have reruns.
"I Love Lucy" still has reruns... but does anybody really care anymore?

I do, I happen to love Lucy. Now if you don't want to discuss these two shows you don't have to be in this thread, reading here isn't mandatory.

You know, I'm watching Angel five sequentially now that the DVDs are out, and I gotta say, the story arc prior to the cancellation announcement is one of the great achievements of television. The first dozen episodes blow the doors off of the four previous Angel seasons and, I gotta say, all Buffy except seasons 2 and 3.

I do, I happen to love Lucy. Now if you don't want to discuss these two shows you don't have to be in this thread, reading here isn't mandatory.
I know. I was just making a statement and got double-team attacked, man. So I got all defensive and shit. If anyone thought I was attacking them, I'm sorry dude. PEACE OUT! :cool:

Everyone knows that Buffy and Angel are just crude ripoffs of Sanford and Son! Josh Weedon is such a hack!

You know, I'm watching Angel five sequentially now that the DVDs are out, and I gotta say, the story arc prior to the cancellation announcement is one of the great achievements of television. The first dozen episodes blow the doors off of the four previous Angel seasons and, I gotta say, all Buffy except seasons 2 and 3.
Personally, I really don't get why they ended Angel. I mean this thing still had a huge fan base, so its not because it wasn't popular anymore. There were still fresh ideas coming in, so its not because the writers had used all the good material. It's not because Buffy had ended recently, the creators had made sure that it had a life of its own and wasn't just known as "Buffy's Spin-Off". I really don't get it.

Personally, I really don't get why they ended Angel. I mean this thing still had a huge fan base, so its not because it wasn't popular anymore. There were still fresh ideas coming in, so its not because the writers had used all the good material. It's not because Buffy had ended recently, the creators had made sure that it had a life of its own and wasn't just known as "Buffy's Spin-Off". I really don't get it.
Because the WB is STUPID! *Starts mumbling under breath*

Personally, I really don't get why they ended Angel. I mean this thing still had a huge fan base, so its not because it wasn't popular anymore. There were still fresh ideas coming in, so its not because the writers had used all the good material. It's not because Buffy had ended recently, the creators had made sure that it had a life of its own and wasn't just known as "Buffy's Spin-Off". I really don't get it.

It's been said before, but because the WB is stupid.

Think about all the things that happened, business-wise, with season 5. Ben Edlund was brought aboard, which gave the series a tremendous shot of fresh blood. The show got the cover of TV Guide. The show was WB's second-best rated for the 18-34 demographic (trailing, it should be noted, Smallville, WHICH WAS ON THE SAME FUCKING NIGHT! That's a power block). They definitely had a season six in the works (Whedon & co. shopped around for another UPN deal to pick up another season), and easily could have pulled to seven. In the NY metro, there was an advertising blitz (Live Fast, Die Never posters all over the place).

The WB sucks balls.

You actually think Angel is better than Buffy?? This is a first in my life time, and hopefully the last. Heres my golden, worth more than anyones times infinite plus one: Angel sucks ergo Buffy Rules. I never even liked the character Angel in Buffy, let alone his own series. Peh.

if it still has reruns then you can still talk about itWhy only if it still has reruns? What about such classic viewing as... *struggles to think of good example*... well any good vintage program that no longer has reruns? You get the picture, anyway...

Later series of Buffy got rather bad, i didn't think much of the last one definitely, but i've looked over Klonors reasons and i have come up with a couple of uber reasons why Buffy is better than Angel...

1) Angel has Wesley in it. I don't care how much he's changed, he's still Wesley. You got the sucky watcher, Giles for president!

2) Angel has his "nancy-boy hair gel" that he loves so much.

3) Buffy has more Spike in it (i could also say it has less Angel in it, but as he's meant to be the star i'll let that one drop for now), and Oz was in it too (who loves the telepathy episode? Oz's thoughts in that made it so memorable! :D )

4) Did Angel win any awards? (actually, i'm not sure, did it?) "Hush" did.

5) Buffy has more memorable quotes/moments than Angel (not my point of view as i only watched some Angel before getting bored, opinion of friends who watched both).

That's all for now.

I started watching Angel and got bored.
1) David Boreanz walked down a street and got the job. His acting...kinda sucks.
2) It has less of the humour of Buffy. Buffy was funny and never really took itself seriously.
3) Maturity - Xander goes from a loser to the only one earning serious money and able to make heart wrenching decisions.
4) Other changes: Well you said yourself Willow changes to Uber-witch. Oz becomes a werewolf. Couple of souls being brought back and forth in vampires, which yes, includes Angel. Though I must say he had more character evil. What'shername....Faith. Complete character change.
5) Demons? Anya = ex. Spike = vampire. Tara = daughter of a witch and trainee. Willow = Uber-witch & pc nerd. Faith & other slayers = 'nuff said, though the black girl wasn't much cop as one, ooh Drusilla's waving a finger *clunk*. The computer teacher = old Native American magic, if unused much.

I can't be bothered any more. It's not as if I even watched every episode.

Oh yeah, i do have to admit that Angel had his moments, but they were all when he reverts to Angelus (spelling?), and i don't know if that ever happened in Angel.

Oh yeah, i do have to admit that Angel had his moments, but they were all when he reverts to Angelus (spelling?), and i don't know if that ever happened in Angel.
He does turn to Angelus multiple times in Angel. There was also at least one time when he was all bitchy at people, and one of the characters said, "He's not quite Angel, but he's not [Angelus] either." I'm paraphrasing cuz it was Druscilla, you know how she is... :rolleyes:

My biggest beef with Buffy (and Angel, to a lesser extent) was the recurring "killing people is bad but killing demons is okay" message. Personally, I don't agree with any show that says some people don't deserve to live just because they are born differently. It smacks of Nazi-ism

My biggest beef with Buffy (and Angel, to a lesser extent) was the recurring "killing people is bad but killing demons is okay" message. Personally, I don't agree with any show that says some people don't deserve to live just because they are born differently. It smacks of Nazi-ism
Yes, but at the same time it's adorable.

They also had a recurring "sex is bad", which I don't nessecarily (damn, I can't spell today!) agree with, and "guns never help", which I kinda agree with, type thing going on.

My biggest beef with Buffy (and Angel, to a lesser extent) was the recurring "killing people is bad but killing demons is okay" message. Personally, I don't agree with any show that says some people don't deserve to live just because they are born differently. It smacks of Nazi-ism

Yeah. This was my beef with the "Aliens" films.

Personally, I really don't get why they ended Angel. I mean this thing still had a huge fan base, so its not because it wasn't popular anymore. There were still fresh ideas coming in, so its not because the writers had used all the good material. It's not because Buffy had ended recently, the creators had made sure that it had a life of its own and wasn't just known as "Buffy's Spin-Off". I really don't get it.

Because they reached 100 episodes and can now syndicate the show on TV now that they have reached 100 eps. I'm sort of glad the show ended before it got stale tough, although I did enjoy it.:)

I have to say that i loved both shows. I guess that for some of those who loved Buffy it was not easy to love Angel, too, because the show is much darker. But they're both funny... I loved especially those episodes with Angel and Spike.
And i'm going to kill the boss of pro7 if they don't start showing Angel on another date than Thursday 01.00 a.m.... :confused:

My biggest beef with Buffy (and Angel, to a lesser extent) was the recurring "killing people is bad but killing demons is okay" message. Personally, I don't agree with any show that says some people don't deserve to live just because they are born differently. It smacks of Nazi-ism

Actually, on Angel they make a point of saying that wantonly killing demons is bad and killing humans is okay (Provided they deserve it). In fact, one episode delt with this fact only.

A group of teenagers (Gunns old crew, to be specific) is go around LA massacring every single demon that they can get their hands on, including those that haven't done anything to deserve it. It eventually evolves into a showdown at Caritas, the club that Lorne own and which caters to demons and humans alike, with Angels crew there trying to convince the kids that they're doing to wrong thing. Natually a brawl breaks out, but before hand they do show that what matters is the actions of the human/demon and not merely what they happened to be born as (I think it's pertinent at this point to point out that this is obviously an anlogy for the racial struggles that we have had in our history, that what matters more is what a person does with their life and not what color they are).

Later series of Buffy got rather bad, i didn't think much of the last one definitely, but i've looked over Klonors reasons and i have come up with a couple of uber reasons why Buffy is better than Angel...

1) Angel has Wesley in it. I don't care how much he's changed, he's still Wesley. You got the sucky watcher, Giles for president!

Mate, did you ever watch Angel? Wesley was the possibly the most loved character on the show. I've never seen a character change so much or so believably. Giles may have been a better Watcher, but Wesley was by far the better fighter and more intriguing character.

Yup, that was even one of my original points. The man evolved and grew to become better than he was. Not only that, but he was able to think within the past thousand years. There's no doubt that Giles is stuck in the middle ages (He even says it in plain English early in the series) but Wesley embraces technology; he even has some gadgets that would put James Bond to shame. I mean seriously, how could you not love that combination sword, stake shooter, grappling hook that comes out his arm?

Actually, on Angel they make a point of saying that wantonly killing demons is bad and killing humans is okay (Provided they deserve it)...

Plus there is the episode where Angel frees the demons from the fight pit... Or where he helps the harmless refugee demons flee from persecution... Plus Doyle... Plus the little girl in red in the white room...

hmm, well, Joss Whedon's best series is still Firefly. <_< >_>
[/hijack]

hmm, well, Joss Whedon's best series is still Firefly. <_< >_>
[/hijack]

I just can't seem to get into it, it seems so 'all over the place' to me.

With Buffy and Angel, I started watching Buffy from day one but as I matured in my viewing tastes, Angel came around and it appealed more to my tastes than Buffy. Basically, I feel Buffy was always aimed at a younger audience and as Buffy's original fans started to out-grow it, Angel catered for them nicely.

Point 1) Buffy often seems to think that Slaying is an unpleasant court-ordered assignment, vital and necessary but not something she enjoys doing. Angel works at it with a passion.

Buffy looks at the slayer duty as a job, because she was called to do it. Angel fights with a "passion" to make up for his misdeeds while Angelus. There's a clear difference, obviously, in what they are doing, but I don't think you clarified that.

Being a Slayer is a job, it's something girls are born to do within the context of the show. That's why there's structure - the Watcher's Council - and a hierarchy system. It's not meant to be passionate, it's meant to get the job down.

However, Angel is doing what he does out of the necessity of free will. Of course, Buffy could've decided not to be a Slayer - but she would still be a Slayer - until she died and a new one was called and as such would be a target until she was killed. She would be forced to fight or die regardless whereas the only reason Angel is forced to fight is because of his choice to be a "good guy" when he's stereotypically suppose to be a bad guy for all intensive purposes (i.e. being a vampire).

I can't believe I'm debating BTVS and Angel on the internet.

How bout this, Spike is better then Angel

Spike sought his soul and earnt it. Its something he wanted.
Angel is cursed with a soul it is torture for him, Angelous is just waiting to get out again and he would kill everyone in his crew, he is inherantly evil. where as Spike wont lose his soul and go on a rampage.


Other then that you missed fred being a demi-god, Xander does have combat experience, Giles is the equal of Wesley, and you completly forgot the warewolf and the other witch. Buffy does show non-evil demons, I remember Buffy and Riley having an argument about it.

Plus Buffy saved the world more then Angel.

Tuesday Heights, you can imagine how I felt when I first posted this.

Anyway, that's a good point about the difference of being Chosen and choosing, but I think that also makes Angel the better show. While I don't think that everybody in the world is a good and noble person, I do think that if a TV show is about being good and noble and fighting for whats right then the star should be somebody who wants to fight for what's right.

Findecano Calaelen, they even go over that in one episode of Angel (I think it's the only time you ever see Spike beat Angel in a fight) where they're both fighting over gets to be human (Nope, neither of them gets to be human right there). Spikes yelling that while they're beating the hell out of each other. But, and we even went over this earlier in the thread, it doesn't matter where you came from but what you do. Spike may have wanted his soul and made an effort to get it whereas Angel has been cursed with his, now that they have it both do they exact same thing with it, Angel would fight for it now no less than Spike would. Also, unless I'm mistaken, Spike goes to get his soul when Buffy leaves him because he was still doing evil stuff. Unless I'm mistaken the guy was selling demon eggs that, once hatched, would slaughter countless thousands. If Spike lost his soul now he'd be no less evil than Angelus.

And I never said Buffy doesn't have non-evil demons (I still like Clem, the guy had personality) I said that the show rarely shows them in their day-to-day lives. Unless they're regular characters (Like Spike, Oz, Clem, etc.) or even semi-regular (Like Merl was on Angel) you don't see them out of their evil ways. They never do anything 'normal'. In one episode of Angel, when he has just lept into a parallel dimension to resuce an evil guy from a hellish prison, he and the guard talk about the commute to work. When Cordy is unconcious and comtemplating whether to lead a normal life or keep her visions Skip talks about The Matrix and Gladiator. The show had depth.

I'd nail Buffy...

Point 1) Buffy often seems to think that Slaying is an unpleasant court-ordered assignment, vital and necessary but not something she enjoys doing. Angel works at it with a passion.

Angel is redeaming himself for 150 yrs of maiming, torture and killing. Buffy has nothing to redeam herself for, hell, she shouldnt even still be the slayer, Kendra then Faith have that roll.

Yet still she fights, risks her life and kicks ass.

Buffy is the true hero because she has nothing to make up for and no (longer anyway) responsibility to the job.

Oh and did i mention Buffy kicks ass? :rolleyes:

Angel is redeaming himself for 150 yrs of maiming, torture and killing. Buffy has nothing to redeam herself for, hell, she shouldnt even still be the slayer, Kendra then Faith have that roll.

Yet still she fights, risks her life and kicks ass.

Buffy is the true hero because she has nothing to make up for and no (longer anyway) responsibility to the job.

Oh and did i mention Buffy kicks ass? :rolleyes:
Angel is just hotter:) But yes, Buffy kicks ass. Unfortunate name though...

Buffy is the true hero because she has nothing to make up for and no (longer anyway) responsibility to the job.

Oh and did i mention Buffy kicks ass? :rolleyes:

I'd disagree. Buffy always placed a condition on her slaying. First it was that she didn't want to do it. Once Dawn entered the picture though, she made it very clear that if anything ever happened to Dawn she would quit slaying. Buffy couldn't handle the loss. She'd quit slaying the moment she lost her sister.
Angel on the other hand has continued fighting despite losing everything repeatedly. Hell, he even signs away his redemption towards the end. Yet he still fights despite the overwhelming odds against him. That looks more heroic.

I'd disagree. Buffy always placed a condition on her slaying. First it was that she didn't want to do it.

Well would you want to? No, thats reality. she's a girl, not a 250 yr old vampire with a soul.

Once Dawn entered the picture though, she made it very clear that if anything ever happened to Dawn she would quit slaying. Buffy couldn't handle the loss. She'd quit slaying the moment she lost her sister.

Havent you ever said "OOHH i could just kill that guy!". Did ya mean it? No, buffy didnt either. she knew her duty (which ended when Kendra was called end of season 1) but she still carried on. and in season 7 she says she would sacrifice Dawn to save the world.

Angel on the other hand has continued fighting despite losing everything repeatedly. Hell, he even signs away his redemption towards the end. Yet he still fights despite the overwhelming odds against him. That looks more heroic.

When did Buffy stop fighting?

Not to mention Buffy killed herself for her sister, she sacrificed herself dor her only relative (asside from a shitty dad) because she wanted her to live.

What redemption does Buffy have? What does she fight for? Nothing. she fights because it's her duty, not to make up for anything, not for some shanshu prophecy, not because she has to. She does it because she can and she knoes its the right thing to do, despite teenage/young adult. single parent distractions.

Angel would fight for it now no less than Spike would.
Angelus would never fight for his soul. Spike did, Angel only fights for his while he has it. If Spike lost it he would fight to get it back.

If Spike lost his soul now he'd be no less evil than Angelus.Angelus is much worse then Spike, when Spike was evil he still helped Buffy

And I never said Buffy doesn't have non-evil demons (I still like Clem, the guy had personality) I said that the show rarely shows them in their day-to-day lives.
I do believe they show Clem sitting around eating chips and spike watching passions

She fights because it's her duty, not to make up for anything, not for some shanshu prophecy, not because she has to. She does it because she can and she knoes its the right thing to do, despite teenage/young adult. single parent distractions.

Angel fought before the prophecy, and after he signed away any chance of it coming to pass.

People who says 'such a such a show sucks' should at least back up thier opinions.

Personally, I loved Buffy more because I watched it more. From Welcome to the Hellmouth to season 6, we watched it every night. We started a forum based on fanfics and roleplays on it.

I watched Angel's first season, and then didn't watch again until its 4th and 5th season due to schoolwork and conflicts.

I loved all the episodes that I saw, and it had a more somber, adult theme. Angel is more about doing the right thing even when you realized you compromised to get there. It was fighting the bad guys when you didn't even know what good was anymore. Compromise to save innocents and lose yourselves in the process.

The rape of the memories of Angel's friends-the death of Cordelia and Fred-letting her be consumed by Illyria to spare countless innocents ignorant of teh choice. Discovering they compromised the moment they stepped into that limo. Oh, I do miss Angel so.

Dude, you've thought way too much about this.

Plus.... are you gay? You seem to like Angel a lot

Point 1) Buffy often seems to think that Slaying is an unpleasant court-ordered assignment, vital and necessary but not something she enjoys doing. Angel works at it with a passion.

Point 2) The Angel series give an entirely new view of the demons they face. Buffy focuses entirely on their demon activities, rarely viewing them in the non-Terror inducing parts of their lives. In Angel you often see the basic (and normal) lives of the demons, including them having day jobs, going to bars, eating buffalo wings, and watcing 'the game'. It's got much more depth than Buffy's approach.

3) Angels 'crew' makes much more sense. In Buffy nobody really has any skills to bring to the show (Excepting Willow and her Uber-Magic). Xander, Willow (In the earlier seasons), Cordelia, Anya, and the rest (Excepting her occasional Vampire boyfriend or genetically improved Super-soldier) have no real skills involved with fighting demons. If you're going to go into combat you want somebody with combat experience (and skill) at your side, not a group of friends tagging along for the ride. In Angel everybody has either a history or skill with demons. Doyle is part demon himself and has visions from the Powers, Cordelia gets the visions after Doyle and eventually becomes part demon (But that does come back to bite her in the ass), Gunn has been fighting Vampires long before joining Angel and is a kick ass fighter, Wesley has a nearly unequaled knowledge of demon history, language, and physiology and eventually grows to be a really competent fighter (I'd put him just after Angel in the shows fighting roster), and Fred is just freakishly brilliant with some scary survival abilities.

4) Buffy tries to have a life first and then Slaying, Angel puts his duties as a fighter first. I'm not saying Buffy is neglectful in her Slaying duties (At least not in the latter half of the series) but she always tries to work it around her friends/job/school instead of the reverse. Angel fits his job and social responsibilities around his Do-Gooding, even so far as getting a job fighting demons.

4) Angel isn't such a pansy. Buffy's creators and script writers often tried to portray her as a normal girl forced to overcome shocking obstacles, acting like she's no better than any other women on the show (I mean physically, not 'worth'). Angels writers realize that he's stronger/faster/smarter/durabel-er (How would you say 'more durable' in a single word?) than almost anybody else on the show and use it.

5) Angel has to deal with real world issues (kinda). One episode of Buffy had her and Cordelia almost killing each other trying to win Homecomeing Queen. The most extreme thing Buffy faces (In her normal life) is being denied a bank loan and working minimum wage. Angel has to figure out how to care for a child, care for several people who are completely reliant upon him financially, and not be torn to death by lawyers. Compared to what Angel faces I think working in Burger King isn't so bad.

6) Angel kicks ass.

7) Not everything ends with a happy ending in Angel. Don't get me wrong, Buffy has had its sad points (Joyce dying, Anya and Xander breaking up, Riley leaving, etc.) but everything always seems to work out in the end. In Angel when things go bad they stay bad and they don't get better without a hell of a lot of hard work. Hell, the series ends with the entire crew either dead or about to be massacred by an unstoppable army composed of thousands upon thousands of demons (You know, I really do want to see how that battle ends). Buffy just seems so much more lighter in comparison. That series ends with only Anya dead and the rest of them giggling at how shockingly easily they just beat an army of unstoppable demons and now have an entire army of Vampire Slayers at their disposal.

8) Angel still kicks ass.

9) Wesleys transformation. Unless I missed something the entire Buffy series has none of the characters changing in the tiniest bit (personality-wise, I mean). The entire cast acts the same in the series finale as they do at the start of the show. Xanader jokes, Willow babbles, Giles lectures, etc. In Angel people change, as they do in real life. Cordelia goes from being a self-obsessed bitch to a caring person who sees the bigger picture, Wesley goes from a nerd (Even I think he's a nerd) to a self-composed and competent fighter then to an alcoholic struggling with self-worth issues then back to the second then back to the third, Fred goes from a nearly psychotic and cowering girl to a woman who is able to grasp and turn unpleasant situations in a second. Even minor characters change (Like Lilah and Lesely) and have sides of their personalities revealed that we never see once in Buffy.

10) Did I mention Angel kicks ass?

Thank you, and I apologize for wasting so much of your time.
Dude, It's hard to compare the two. One is a series about a teen girl learning to become an adult and facing the facts that life is unfair and we must live up to our responsibilities. Angel is a story about a grown man (sort of) trying to come to terms with the mess he's made out of his life and do some good to balance it out. They're both great TV. I appreciate each for a different reason. I can't compare the two.

Most important reason: Sarah Michelle "I'm so boring" Gellar doesn't appear that often in Angel.

Personally I think they both suck, the vampires there are pussies, but I take Angel over Buffy any time.

Than maybe you should compare shows that are still running??? :confused:
Why? None of them are nearly as good.

I started watching Angel and got bored.

4) Other changes: Well you said yourself Willow changes to Uber-witch. Oz becomes a werewolf. Couple of souls being brought back and forth in vampires, which yes, includes Angel. Though I must say he had more character evil. What'shername....Faith. Complete character change.
.
Faith's character change actually took place on the Angel series. She came back to Buffy after she got her act together.

He's got a point

My biggest beef with Buffy (and Angel, to a lesser extent) was the recurring "killing people is bad but killing demons is okay" message. Personally, I don't agree with any show that says some people don't deserve to live just because they are born differently. It smacks of Nazi-ism
I just watched a rerun of Angel this morning where he kills a demon that was actually a good guy. It wasn't treated lightly. Plus there have been several good demons in both series. Anya wasn't evil, Doyle was good, Whistler was a good guy, and there are others.

One thing about Angel really sucks though. Lorne. I didn't watch it for a long time because one of the main characters was a green guy with horns dressed in a flashy suit. How do you take any show with such a character seriously? I finally did get over it, but not until the series was cancelled.

Hey, Lorne rules! I just love that scene near the end of Angel, when Fred gets infected by the sarcophogas (spelling error I'm sure) and she starts singing "You are my Sunshine", Lorne turns around in horror and then she spits blood all over his face. Chilling but fab. Plus, you can't really blame me for smiling a bit when I typed the bit about Fred coughing up blood. At least Illyria gave Amy Acker a chance to show everyone that she can play a character other than "Whiny Twig".

Hey, Lorne rules! I just love that scene near the end of Angel, when Fred gets infected by the sarcophogas (spelling error I'm sure) and she starts singing "You are my Sunshine", Lorne turns around in horror and then she spits blood all over his face. Chilling but fab. Plus, you can't really blame me for smiling a bit when I typed the bit about Fred coughing up blood. At least Illyria gave Amy Acker a chance to show everyone that she can play a character other than "Whiny Twig".
That's "Cute and Sexy Whiny Twig".

WHAT!?!? Angel is cancelled! oh whoa on us. i beleive angel was the better of the 2 except of course Buffy had Willow and well shes hot but *shrugs* anyhow thats my say


ps i knew there was no more angel

That's "Cute and Sexy Whiny Twig".

Cute? Perhaps. Sexy? Noooooo.... she was SO skeletal! Cordy was sexy (not that I'm into girls) and oh so curvy.

Cute? Perhaps. Sexy? Noooooo.... she was SO skeletal! Cordy was sexy (not that I'm into girls) and oh so curvy.Every regularly appearing female character in both Angel and Buffy was fucking hot. With the possible exception of Tara. I can never make up my mind about her. Sometimes I think she looks pretty good, sometimes I wonder how she got on the show.

Every regularly appearing female character in both Angel and Buffy was fucking hot. With the possible exception of Tara. I can never make up my mind about her. Sometimes I think she looks pretty good, sometimes I wonder how she got on the show.

Ugh *shudders* Tara was a minger

Point 1) Buffy often seems to think that Slaying is an unpleasant court-ordered assignment, vital and necessary but not something she enjoys doing. Angel works at it with a passion.

Angel does this to redeem himself. Ever felt so guilt that you thought you needed to do something to try to balance the scales? Well Angel has.

Buffy does it because she is forced, even when she tries to run from it, it finds her (ala running away after killing Angel). Buffy tries to lead a real life Angel can't as a Vamp which was why he ran away from Buffy because he couldn't do that to her.


Point 2) The Angel series give an entirely new view of the demons they face. Buffy focuses entirely on their demon activities, rarely viewing them in the non-Terror inducing parts of their lives. In Angel you often see the basic (and normal) lives of the demons, including them having day jobs, going to bars, eating buffalo wings, and watcing 'the game'. It's got much more depth than Buffy's approach.

On Buffy you did sometimes see the day to day stuff. Remember at that demon bar place Bufy went with Spike? They traded kitties lol.

Angel as a vamp is half-demon (in their world Vamps are 1/2 demon) so that was why they showed that.

3) Angels 'crew' makes much more sense.
In Buffy nobody really has any skills to bring to the show (Excepting Willow and her Uber-Magic). Xander, Willow (In the earlier seasons), Cordelia, Anya, and the rest (Excepting her occasional Vampire boyfriend or genetically improved Super-soldier) have no real skills involved with fighting demons.
If you're going to go into combat you want somebody with combat experience (and skill) at your side, not a group of friends tagging along for the ride.
In Angel everybody has either a history or skill with demons. Doyle is part demon himself and has visions from the Powers, Cordelia gets the visions after Doyle and eventually becomes part demon (But that does come back to bite her in the ass), Gunn has been fighting Vampires long before joining Angel and is a kick ass fighter, Wesley has a nearly unequaled knowledge of demon history, language, and physiology and eventually grows to be a really competent fighter (I'd put him just after Angel in the shows fighting roster), and Fred is just freakishly brilliant with some scary survival abilities.

-Xander has the heart/eye of the team, take it what you will, but he sees all. He saved Willow, he say the danger when those Zombies were going to blow up the school. Remember during that fight Buffy was fighting a demon that was going to end the world. So without Xander, there would be no world saving! He is more of a hero than anyone knows. He also has many army skills. Not to say army guys are all great, but they know many important skills. Remember the Holloween episode? He got them a Bazzoka later and other stuff with that knowledge.
-Willow got corrupted by arcane magic. It is basically D&D warcraft variant of arcane corruption. Unlike Divine magic (like Giles used against her), ardcane magic corrupts the soul slowly. Even tually Willows body was full of the corruption and that bit of anger was all that was needed to push her over. She also went Bi-sexual, but leaned toward gay near end odf series. I thought that was plain stupid, a jewish girl like her?(remember the egg episode when she wanted to sing it Dradle, dradle dradle?)
-Cordelia(on Buffy) was just semi-involved, she liked Xander, she cared little about fighting.
-Anya had demon lore, she could fight, and she liked Xander. Enough said.
-I'd rather have freinds that some Aholes that can fight(not saying Angels were though) because I can relax and enjoy it more.

And I will agree with abilities of Angels crew, but they are not at odds.

4) Buffy tries to have a life first and then Slaying, Angel puts his duties as a fighter first. I'm not saying Buffy is neglectful in her Slaying duties (At least not in the latter half of the series) but she always tries to work it around her friends/job/school instead of the reverse. Angel fits his job and social responsibilities around his Do-Gooding, even so far as getting a job fighting demons.

Nah, I've already said Angel is trying to redeem himself, but Buffy has nothing to redeem so she can't.

7) Not everything ends with a happy ending in Angel. Don't get me wrong, Buffy has had its sad points (Joyce dying, Anya and Xander breaking up, Riley leaving, etc.) but everything always seems to work out in the end. In Angel when things go bad they stay bad and they don't get better without a hell of a lot of hard work. Hell, the series ends with the entire crew either dead or about to be massacred by an unstoppable army composed of thousands upon thousands of demons (You know, I really do want to see how that battle ends). Buffy just seems so much more lighter in comparison. That series ends with only Anya dead and the rest of them giggling at how shockingly easily they just beat an army of unstoppable demons and now have an entire army of Vampire Slayers at their disposal.

Buffy isn't even over (the crew, not the series), she still is recruiting slayers and fighting evil.
But Angel shouldn't be over...

9) Wesleys transformation. Unless I missed something the entire Buffy series has none of the characters changing in the tiniest bit (personality-wise, I mean). The entire cast acts the same in the series finale as they do at the start of the show. Xanader jokes, Willow babbles, Giles lectures, etc. In Angel people change, as they do in real life. Cordelia goes from being a self-obsessed bitch to a caring person who sees the bigger picture, Wesley goes from a nerd (Even I think he's a nerd) to a self-composed and competent fighter then to an alcoholic struggling with self-worth issues then back to the second then back to the third, Fred goes from a nearly psychotic and cowering girl to a woman who is able to grasp and turn unpleasant situations in a second. Even minor characters change (Like Lilah and Lesely) and have sides of their personalities revealed that we never see once in Buffy.

Yes, that was a awesome cinematic develop of Wesley. Xander changed after losing an eye, don't look away remember that.
Things change on faster and bigger proportion on Angel; things change slowly and until you view whole picture seems smaller proportions on Buffy

well said BastardSword, i totally agree. :)