NationStates Jolt Archive

It's judgement day for the pro-reform movement: In light of the "Sociallzation is not Spam debate over at Moderation, we've decided to release the platform a few days early.

A More User-Friendly NS: The NSRP Platform

Imagine a NS where moderators are friendlier and more courteous to players.
Where moderators truly care about what players think.
Where moderators treat every single player with compassion and tolerance.

This is our vision of NS.

It is important, however, to note that we are not anti-mods. We do not believe that moderators are unfriendly, uncourteous, uncaring, and intolerant. Rather, we simply believe that moderators can be more friendly, more courteous, more caring, and more tolerant. We believe that when it comes to moderation, there is always room for improvement.

It is also important to note that we realize that NationStates is a private entity. In our plan for NS, administrators and moderators will still have the final say. We only hope for greater consideration for player interests, and a greater role for players in moderation affairs. However, this role will merely be an advisory one.

Bearing this in mind, here is our plan for NS:


First Step: More Moderators

We have seen requests for more moderators denied, even there was a general consensus that there was a need for more moderators. We also believe that more moderators will reduce moderator stress, leading to more user-friendly moderators. Therefore, we propose a set ratio to guarantee the minimum number of moderators:

- 16 moderators (the current number, not including [violet] and Salusa) for the first 100 000 active nations on NationStates
- 1 moderator for every 5 000 nations thereafter

- we also propose two additional Game Admins, which, in our opinion, will increase the willingness of NS admin to implement miscellaneous improvements and the speed at which they are implemented.


Greater Consistency in Moderation

We believe that the subjectiveness of moderation should be reduced. Although we realize that moderators do have to make judgement calls, we believe that should consult previous judgements and consensus first. However, it is important to note that true justice does not mean "the same punishment for the same crime", it means "the same punishment for the same crime with the same circumstances".

Therefore, we propose:

- the creation of a "NS Legal Library", a read-only archive of standard policies and procedures ("The NS Criminal Code"), plus notable moderator decisions ("precident-setting cases") . This will increase awareness of NS policies and procedures by the average NS user, which, in our opinion, will reduce "unintentional rulebreaking". In addition, it will put increased pressure on moderators to make decisions according to precident, which fits in the spirit of consistancy.

- that moderators give greater consideration to circumstance when making judgements

- an official review on how to make NS moderator rulings more consistent and just, taking into account basic legal principles. Although NS moderators are not judges in a Court of Law, both are places where judgements are rendered: therefore, we believe that NS moderators should adopt basic legal principles whenever possible.


Truly User-Friendly Moderation

We believe that this means two things:

- friendly and courteous moderators
- greater player input in moderation affairs

Therefore, we propose:

- that three moderators be semi-elected by players. This means that moderators will, with input from players, create a list of suitable candidates. Players will then select one moderator from this list.

- the creation of three directly elected "player representatives", who task is to participate in moderator reviews held at the modcenter. These representatives will not have moderation abilities and will not have access to OPSEC. We believe that these representatives will increase honesty and transparency in the moderation process.

- the holding of "public consultation exercises" to seek player opinion on important issues, and attempts by all parties (moderators, players, administrators) to reach a general consensus on these issues. However, shall a consensus fail to be reached, moderators and administrators will still have the right to final judgement.

- the creation of an official "People's Choice" Moderator award

- an official, in-depth study on how to improve the friendliness and courtesy of moderators ("sensitivity training" for moderators)


More Compassionate and Tolerant Moderation

We believe that compassion and tolerance are virtues. We also believe that deletion, DOS or IP bans are not simply a matter between moderators and the player being deleted or banned: saying so is like saying that killing a man does not affect his family.

Therefore, we propose:

- that moderators, when considering or reviewing a DOS or IP ban, give a "second chance" to those who have sincerely displayed a sense of remorse for their actions. Moderators should also take into consideration the words of those who speak out in favour or against a ban.

- an official review of current warning/deletion procedures, with input from users, and taking into consideration site dynamics


More Fair and Sensible Moderation

We believe that NS rules should be a compromise between "making NS a more pleasurable place" and "ensuring the smooth operation of the site". However, we also believe that when creating or reviewing rules, "making NS a more pleasurable place" should take precedence over all other factors, because in our opinion, that is the main purpose of NS rules.

Therefore, we propose:

- allowing links to non-offensive material on sites that also host offensive material (e.g eBaums World), provided that a warning stating this fact is included in the link.

- relaxing the total ban on word games. Instead, an "Official Word Games Thread" will be created and stickied. This will be the only word games thread allowed on the NS forums.

- allowing thread trends: let "the market" decide the topic of the day

- treating parodies as parodies: judge them to a lower threshold.

We will propose other ideas that we feel will make moderation policies more fair and sensible by responding to current events on the NS forums, on a case-by-case basis.


Moving Beyond Moderation: Towards A Friendlier NS

We believe that creating more user-friendly moderation policies is only a start. Ultimately, our goal is to create a friendlier NS, where not only moderators are friendlier and more courteous to players, but players are also friendlier and more courteous to each other. Where not only moderators truly care about what players think, but players also respect each other's opinion and appreciate the new perspective. Where not only moderators treat every single player with compassion and tolerance, but players also treat other players with compassion and tolerance.

Although we realize that this is an utopian and almost impossible goal, it does not mean that we cannot strive in that direction.

Therefore, we propose that all members of NS (players, moderators, administrators):

- Be nice, Be considerate, think critically
- discuss with others regarding how to do so
- teach others to do so

Because in the end, this is what the NationStates reform movement is all about.

Oh...shit. :eek:

[By the way, you may want to run that sucker through a spell-checker. "precedent" and "consistency" were spelled wrong.]

Weird...this is just what I was asking for...

You guys should go on strike.

This message has been endorsed by BLARGistania

C'mon, I wanted to hear more talk about the proletariat! :D

So I more or less disagree with your entire platform. Are you guys still dismissing my opinions as unimportant like Word Games was?

So I more or less disagree with your entire platform. Are you guys still dismissing my opinions as unimportant like Word Games was?

Your opinions are important, just not to me.

So I more or less disagree with your entire platform. Are you guys still dismissing my opinions as unimportant like Word Games was?

Nope. I think the platform could still do with some discussion anyway. As Sandpit said, he released the platform a couple of days earlier than planned. Personally, I'd welcome you views.

(by the way, Word Games is now called "Going Nucking Futs". He got deleted after an incident with his sig)

http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/blackeye/lol.gif

myrth is that smilie laughing or crying? :confused: or both?

Myrth is laughing, of course; he is scorning the fact that these foolish mortals have the unmitigated gall to believe that they have a voice. I mean, really!

(What is NS Local 8976?)

A union created by Word Games who is now called going nucking futs

http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/blackeye/lol.gif

This is mYrth gloating

This is mYrth gloating

*shocked*

I don't know how you could suggest such a thing, WG! He was obviously giving us a 'thumbs-up'. :)

*shocked*

I don't know how you could suggest such a thing, WG! He was obviously giving us a 'thumbs-up'. :)

That's NOT his thumb..

Myrth is laughing, of course; he is scorning the fact that these foolish mortals have the unmitigated gall to believe that they have a voice. I mean, really!

(What is NS Local 8976?)

Man can not make deals with God or even God's angels. It is truly unwise for you to make these steps of negotiation. But I admire your desire to bring equality and better Godship upon this place.

OK seriously...I like it but:
My only problem is.... the massive amount of Bureaucracy that will be involved in this.

Man can not make deals with God or even God's angels. It is truly unwise for you to make these steps of negotiation. But I admire your desire to bring equality and better Godship upon this place. My only problem is.... the massive amount of Bureaucracy that will be involved in this.

I have to agree as noble as this is, I only see it making thing worse.

http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/blackeye/lol.gif

>: (

So I more or less disagree with your entire platform. Are you guys still dismissing my opinions as unimportant like Word Games was?

No. In fact, the reform movement is about not dismissing anyone's opinion as unimportant. But first, please tell me, in detail, how you disagree with the platform.

http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/blackeye/lol.gif

That's not very friendly, and above anything, the reform movement is about making NS a friendlier place.

*shocked*

I don't know how you could suggest such a thing, WG! He was obviously giving us a 'thumbs-up'. :)

Well, all good parties need a good spin doctor, just be sure you don't overdo it, or you'll end up like the Iraqi Information Minister :) .

To those concerned about Bureaucracy: please express your concerns in detail...

Well, all good parties need a good spin doctor, just be sure you don't overdo it, or you'll end up like the Iraqi Information Minister :) .

Well, I don't think it would be an overstatement to say that the mods have accepted our entire plaform and decided to take things a step further by allowing spamming, flaming and pornography.


In fact, the union has been secretly controlling mod rulings since before the forum was created, like a forum illuminati. *nod*

While devotion to a cause is admirable, I still have to ask: Why?
Honestly, this is a free online game/forum that occupies one small corner in a tremendously vast internet. In the grand scheme of things, it's about as important to world issues as whether or not my toaster has two slots or four. Hell, even in the small scheme of one's daily life, it's really not that important (or rather shouldn't be).
While the devotion is admirable, I think it is drastically misplaced. Your energies would be far better off promoting world peace or helping the poor.

Because, (No offense mods, I don't mind you guys) NSGeneral used to be, in my opinion, a lot more fun. Back in the days of word games, and before (not meant to lash out, I just mark it as a turning point) Myrth came a mod, especially his NS mod super hero thing, which I found totally awesome...yeah, I'm to exhausted to do much.

While devotion to a cause is admirable, I still have to ask: Why?
Honestly, this is a free online game/forum that occupies one small corner in a tremendously vast internet. In the grand scheme of things, it's about as important to world issues as whether or not my toaster has two slots or four. Hell, even in the small scheme of one's daily life, it's really not that important (or rather shouldn't be).
While the devotion is admirable, I think it is drastically misplaced. Your energies would be far better off promoting world peace or helping the poor.

Wouldn't it be nice if NS was a friendlier place? Where no one dismisses your views as being unimportant? Wouldn't it be nice if the world was like that? It's not exactly bringing world peace, but it's a start.

Wouldn't it be nice if NS was a friendlier place? Where no one dismisses your views as being unimportant?.
The problem I perceive with the jump from your stated platform to here is that changing moderation policy won't change human nature.

Wouldn't it be nice if NS was a friendlier place? Where no one dismisses your views as being unimportant? Wouldn't it be nice if the world was like that? It's not exactly bringing world peace, but it's a start.
How much friendlier can it get?
Don't know about you, but when I'm not breaking any rules I find the service to be quite okay.

The problem I perceive with the jump from your stated platform to here is that changing moderation policy won't change human nature.

I don't think anyone is trying to change human nature. They're trying to change some behavior, which is much more attainable. :)

How much friendlier can it get?

It can get a little friendlier, I suppose, especially in General and II. But that's the players, not the Mods. I've never noticed consistent rudeness on the part of a Mod in the course of their duties. Occasionally I've seen rudeness from a Mod, but it's rare, and I figure we all have bad days, so...meh.

Don't know about you, but when I'm not breaking any rules I find the service to be quite okay.

:D Me too.

How much friendlier can it get?
Don't know about you, but when I'm not breaking any rules I find the service to be quite okay.

There's still quite a lot of flaming, isn't there? We must not only focus on punishing those who flame, but also focus on how to prevent flaming, and encouraging those involved in flaming to solve their differences. And by we, I mean all of us.

As well, we should actively discourage sneering, being arrogant, and being rude, even if it's not against forum rules. Why? Because it's not nice.

It can get a little friendlier, I suppose, especially in General and II. But that's the players, not the Mods.
:D Me too.
So how is "electing mods" and adding a few new mods going to make the players be friendlier than they already are?

It can get a little friendlier, I suppose, especially in General and II. But that's the players, not the Mods. I've never noticed consistent rudeness on the part of a Mod in the course of their duties. Occasionally I've seen rudeness from a Mod, but it's rare, and I figure we all have bad days, so...meh.



:D Me too.

Well, I've notice more rudeness from mods than you, but for the record, I also see them being nice quite a few times. Perhaps your definition of "rude" is different from mine.

And I don't necessarily blame mods for being rude too. Like they say, often it's their workload. That's why the first section of the platform calls for more moderators and a way to ensure that there would be an adequate number of moderators for NationStates. it may not be the best way, but it's the only consistent way I could think of.

So how is "electing mods" and adding a few new mods going to make the players be friendlier than they already are?

I doubt it would, which is why I'm not part of the Union.

I doubt it would, which is why I'm not part of the Union.
Alright, then I pose my previous question to Sandpit.
How will the election of more mods lead to NS players being friendlier?

So how is "electing mods" and adding a few new mods going to make the players be friendlier than they already are?

That's not all that's in the platform.

I believe that if mods are friendlier to players, treat their views more seriously, and think more from their perspective, players will be friendlier to mods. This will increase the general goodwill on NS.

The last section of the platform also calls for all of us to explore ways to make NS a friendlier place .

That's not all that's in the platform.

I believe that if mods are friendlier to players, treat their views more seriously, and think more from their perspective, players will be friendlier to mods. This will increase the general goodwill on NS.

The platform also calls for all of us to explore ways to make NS a friendlier place.
Well you are trying to make NS a friendlier place. Considering the overwhelming amount of "negativity" comes from the players, I don't see electing new mods really making NS any friendlier.

Well you are trying to make NS a friendlier place. Considering the overwhelming amount of "negativity" comes from the players, I don't see electing new mods really making NS any friendlier.

That's why reforming moderation policies is only a start. Ultimately, we hope to shift our focus from reforming moderation policies to encouraging goodwill on NS, and ensuring that our moderation policies are compatible with that. Once again, I direct you to the last section of the platform.

That's why reforming moderation policies is only a start. Ultimately, we hope to shift our focus from reforming moderation policies to encouraging goodwill on NS, and ensuring that our moderation policies are compatible with that. Once again, I direct you to the last section of the platform.
But if people would already display goodwill, then there wouldn't really be any compatibility issues.

And what good will removing any teeth the moderators have before transforming the populace. I fail to see how making moderation more lax and "nice" will suddenly or even gradually cause the populace to go, "Oh, lets stop calling each other faggots and spics." If anything, I see people going "Oh look, I found a loophole in the rules and now I'm going to use it to be an ass"

But if people would already display goodwill, then there wouldn't really be any compatibility issues.

And what good will removing any teeth the moderators have before transforming the populace. I fail to see how making moderation more lax and "nice" will suddenly or even gradually cause the populace to go, "Oh, lets stop calling each other faggots and spics." If anything, I see people going "Oh look, I found a loophole in the rules and now I'm going to use it to be an ass"

Being "nice" does not mean being "lax". In fact, often it only means rephrasing what you are saying. Of course, being "nice" also means not dismissing anyone's views as unimportant, and having a greater concern for player interests.

And of course, goodwill spreads like wildfire...

This is a game of diplomacy and politics. If you want to make any changes or get people to take you seriously, I would try convincing people outside of your little group.

I will support this if you can get at least 2 of the big ten top regions to support this. Until then, i do not take it serously.

This is a game of diplomacy and politics. If you want to make any changes or get people to take you seriously, I would try convincing people outside of your little group.

I will support this if you can get at least 2 of the big ten top regions to support this. Until then, i do not take it serously.

Ultimately, it all comes down to the man at the top.

There's still quite a lot of flaming, isn't there? We must not only focus on punishing those who flame, but also focus on how to prevent flaming, and encouraging those involved in flaming to solve their differences. And by we, I mean all of us.

As well, we should actively discourage sneering, being arrogant, and being rude, even if it's not against forum rules. Why? Because it's not nice.
Well aren't you the self-righteous pollyanna. What the world needs is honesty, inteligance, and vigour, not more "niceness". You want debators to "Solve their differances"?? christ, this forum is all about political debate. And what's wrong with the occasional jackass airing his views? People that arn't reasonable and reasonably couteous are usually shut down anyway. I don't think this forum needs to be sterilized of liveliness.

Ans as for copycat/parody threads, I'm GLAD the mods are cracking down on them They just clutter things up- there is a spam forum for a reason.

I agree about more mods, and the people's choice mod award is a good idea. One word game thread would be good. Having consultation and courtesy is always nice. Still, I don't know if I can support this platfor wholeheartedly. Like others have said, there is too much emphasis on the mods, and how to improve them....even the subject headings are a bit irksome.

Someone mentioned that this isn't important in the big scheam of things; perhaps that's true, but I think we can be a good influence...kinda like a focus group, thinktank, and social all at the same time. But lets not get too serious.
And WG, you should really cut out the annoying quips.

I have to wonder. What does the crowd in NS and II think about this? Have you even broached the subject with them? I get the distinct feeling that people who actually want to change the forum only really mean General, and are a very small minority of a portion of NationStates as a whole.

I have to wonder. What does the crowd in NS and II think about this? Have you even broached the subject with them? I get the distinct feeling that people who actually want to change the forum only really mean General, and are a very small minority of a portion of NationStates as a whole.

Are you saying that there is life outside of General???

You guys should go on strike.
Seconded.

We must not only focus on punishing those who flame, but also focus on how to prevent flaming, and encouraging those involved in flaming to solve their differences. And by we, I mean all of us.

I disagree on that too. Since this is a free forum and game, the players and posters have few rights. It is our own personal duty to not flame, ignore flamers, and carry on in these forums peacefully. Anyone who obeys the laws in General Forum, or anywhere, should not have a desire to make these changes. Why? When has a Mod bothered a law-abiding poster?

Player/poster involvment in what the Mods (upaid) job is like biting the hand that feeds you.

Making more Mods takes time, makes trouble, confusion, and exhaustion. The main Mods will have to train and unify with the new Mods. Before the Moderation on all forums can be efficient and prudent.

I remember one forum that was fairl smally. It had about twenty main posters, and around fifteen posters who came and went. We had two admins I believe. Well the whole goup had been together for a long time so the admins gave a lot of the regular posters their own forum to mod. That created a weird, stupid, and terrible situation. The mods/posters became powerhungry and indiscriminate in their rules and consequences. Soon, some (if not all) the mods had grievances against a "friend" who maybe locked a thread in another forum.

As doubtful as that is happening here, it is a possibility. By the way, how many mods would we have if we have 1 every 5,000 posters?

Anyhow I gotta jet.

Ans as for copycat/parody threads, I'm GLAD the mods are cracking down on them They just clutter things up- there is a spam forum for a reason.


where the heck is the spam forum??

Ultimately, it all comes down to the man at the top.
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8468121&postcount=28
How about the admin at the top?

where the heck is the spam forum??

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=29

I should've locked this sooner. We only need one topic on this (http://www.forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=405771), not two.

iLock.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation