NationStates Jolt Archive


Villains, Heros and Anti-Heros

Anarchic Conceptions
17-03-2005, 14:40
(Apologies before hand for the limited poll, I'm a bit knackered so [Other] is there for anything I may have forgotten)

There was an article in the Independent today,* briefly it was about a study concerning Heros and Villains in literature, and Waterstone's new book deal offer.

However it got me thinking. Which, in your opinion, is your favorite type of character in a story? The Hero? The Villain? The anti-hero who blurs the line somewhat between the two occasionally?

Who are your favorite characters?

For me I largely prefer villains, with anti-heros coming a close second.

I would say one of my favorite villains are Steerpike from Gormanghast, I just think he is fantastic. I mean what is not to like? Fantastically intelligant, amoral, extremely manipulative and highly motivated. A classic, what's not to like?

Another good villain (who come to think about it isn't a million miles away from Steerpike, or should that be the other way round?) is Iago from Shakespeare's "Othello".

Being a huge SF/Fantasy fan (less kind people would say geek), my one of my favorite anti-heros is Micheal Moorcock's Elric. Though I haven't read as much about him as I would like to.

And just about every Philip K Dick main character. (A Scanner Darkly is being made, not sure how I feel about it though).

So I open this question to you, who do you like in your stories?



Which I won't bother linking because a) it is fairly boring and b) largely irrelevent.
Crookfur
17-03-2005, 14:43
Iknow that they are all incredibly cheesey but i do quite like David Gemmel's long list of "hero's with issues or a past". Jon shanow is particularly good fun at times even though he isn't as god like as druss or waylander.
L-rouge
17-03-2005, 14:45
Villains are always the best characters, they usually have much more depth (which is strange when you think about it, as you're meant to be drawn toward the hero? Perhaps authors are worried that if they give a hero to much depth, then people wouldn't see them as a hero?), though as you say, the anti-hero comes a close second!
Anarchic Conceptions
17-03-2005, 14:57
Villians are always the best characters, they usually have much more depth (which is strange when you think about it, as you're meant to be drawn toward the hero? Perhaps authors are worried that if they give a hero to much depth, then people wouldn't see them as a hero?), though as you say, the anti-hero comes a close second!

I think it is largely a hang-over from the romantic period of chivalry (which yes extend into subsequent ones), where heros were expected to be noble, um heroic etc.

They were rolemodels.

The only problem for the traditional hero is that they are unrealistic at best and artificially sweet at worst (imo). They are mirrors for society to reflect the most highly esteem qualities. The thing is, it is quite restricting.

However with villains you can do whatever you want. Make them complete bastards, and admit it, everyone likes a bastard. They are fun, they can do what they want.

Sigh, the whitterings of a sleep deprived student :)
Anarchic Conceptions
17-03-2005, 14:58
Iknow that they are all incredibly cheesey but i do quite like David Gemmel's long list of "hero's with issues or a past". Jon shanow is particularly good fun at times even though he isn't as god like as druss or waylander.

I never particuarly liked Gemmel. I could never get into them, they always seemed to samey. Bit like Tom Clancy.

No offence meant, he's just not my cuppa tea.
Davo_301
17-03-2005, 15:00
Villians are the best, better dressers, better actors, they have sexyer counterparts, and you are agrenteed to go out with a bang. and they are just better
Roach-Busters
17-03-2005, 15:01
Magus from Chrono Trigger is the best antihero ever.
Anarchic Conceptions
17-03-2005, 15:02
Villians are the best, better dressers, better actors, they have sexyer counterparts, and you are agrenteed to go out with a bang. and they are just better

Well they are normally English ;)
Crookfur
17-03-2005, 15:05
I never particuarly liked Gemmel. I could never get into them, they always seemed to samey. Bit like Tom Clancy.

No offence meant, he's just not my cuppa tea.

That i can understand i geuss its a case of if you get into one you can read the others easily.
Persoanlly i get really annoyed with goody goody heros, particualrly when the writer makes it obvious that they can't lose.
Yammo
17-03-2005, 15:09
I prefer villans, because I'm evil =P
Greedy Pig
17-03-2005, 15:19
Magus from Chrono Trigger is the best antihero ever.

Fuck yeah.

-------------------------------------------------------------


Anyway.. I'm for the 'other'. I prefer the Mastermind. Or Misunderstood Genius in the background of everything going on.

The other person with his own hidden agenda that he sometimes help the hero or helps the villians as he see's fit.
The Plutonian Empire
17-03-2005, 15:25
What's an anti-hero?
Greedy Pig
17-03-2005, 15:37
What's an anti-hero?

Someone who isn't a villian (Likes doing evil) but just hates the hero I think..
Vittos Ordination
17-03-2005, 15:52
Someone who isn't a villian (Likes doing evil) but just hates the hero I think..

It is kind of the opposite, he isn't a hero but he opposes the villian or fulfills the role of a hero. Catwoman from "Batman 2", Clint Eastwood from "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly."

In my opinion those are always the deepest characters, they normally have deep issues that keep them from being good, but through some external motivation are drawn to the side of good.
Gooooold
17-03-2005, 15:52
More often than not, the villain is my favourite character.
I_Hate_Cows
17-03-2005, 16:01
So what counts as anti-hero? Punisher and stuff?
Vittos Ordination
17-03-2005, 16:03
So what counts as anti-hero? Punisher and stuff?

The Punisher would be a very typical anti-hero.
I_Hate_Cows
17-03-2005, 16:08
I will vote for anti-hero then since they kick everyone's ass
Jamil
17-03-2005, 16:11
I'd have to say hero because they always manage to capture your heart. :fluffle:

My favorite hero would most likely be... Atticus Finch (To Kill a Mockingbird)
Kellarly
17-03-2005, 16:13
Iknow that they are all incredibly cheesey but i do quite like David Gemmel's long list of "hero's with issues or a past". Jon shanow is particularly good fun at times even though he isn't as god like as druss or waylander.

Yeah, but he still does pretty well against the apparent reincarnation of satan with two old cap and ball revolvers ;)
Anarchic Conceptions
17-03-2005, 16:15
I'd have to say hero because they always manage to capture your heart. :fluffle:

Well lovale rogues are called so for a reason ;)

My favorite hero would most likely be... Atticus Finch (To Kill a Mockingbird)

Ooh, good choice, I had forgotten about him.

One of the few cases of a hero who is an actual realistic rolemodel I think (don't hold me to that though*).


*Yes, I know that is just a cheap way of saying "I cannot think of anymore, therefore there aren't anymore until you mention one"
You Forgot Poland
17-03-2005, 16:20
Hey, just to clear things up:

The antihero does not have to be bad or hate the hero or anything like this.

The antihero is simply a main character who lacks traditional heroic qualities. So yeah, the Punisher is an antihero, but so is McMurphy from Cuckoo's Nest; so is Columbo; Grendel; Walter Mitty; Mike Hammer; Humbert Humbert; Rabbit Angstrom; Batman. I would even go so far as to say that most heroes in contemporary lit and film (Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, and Superman aside) are antiheroes.
Davo_301
17-03-2005, 16:23
Well they are normally English ;)
Yes long live us english villains... *twiddles mustash* muh hahahahahahahaha
Vittos Ordination
17-03-2005, 16:27
I have decided, my favorite anti-hero is the man with the harmonica, from "Once Upon a Time in the West".
Barkur
17-03-2005, 18:06
I voted for Anti heros, who are usually the deepest characters and often the coolest, not bound by the morals of the hero or the egotism/psychoticism of the villian. My favourite examples of this are Clint Eastwood in a fistful of dollars, Agent 47, Michael and Vito Corleone, Ghost Dog, Sam Vimes as well as the orginal Batman (the vigilantie version rather then the camp one)
However, villians come a close second, they usually have the most fun, the best costumes or backstory and the women are always sexy :fluffle: . They are usually very intelligent, manipulative and amusing. My favourite are Iago (best shakespearean character by far), The Jackal :sniper: (from the book and the original film), Darth Vader and Yassen Gregorovitch.
Heroes are usually realitivy dull, they almost always win, are bound by codes that can always be played on. And the other two are always cooler (e.g. would u rather be the Punisher :mp5: or Superman, exactly :D )
Neo-Anarchists
17-03-2005, 18:09
The antihero is almost always my favorite charcacter. Has anybody read the Revelation Space trilogy and its related books by Alastair Reynolds? They have some excellent antiheros in them.
Karas
17-03-2005, 18:27
Magus from Chrono Trigger is the best antihero ever.

Magus was good but you can't beat the original. The first and the best will always be Gilgamesh.
Anarchic Conceptions
17-03-2005, 18:31
I have decided, my favorite anti-hero is the man with the harmonica, from "Once Upon a Time in the West".
Good call.

I can remember being absolutely blown away by that film. It got my into Westerns in general and Leone in particular (including his non-western films). Also Morricone's score is far better than the one he did for The Good, The Bad and The Ugly imo.
Temporary nations
17-03-2005, 18:31
I like anti-heros. Burke from Andrew Vachss' crime novels, Spike and Angel from Joss Whedon's tv series, Josey Wales from "The Outlaw Josey Wales" etc. They have depth and complexity that simple heros and villans lack. I like the idea of a guy who's bad, but does good.
Matokogothicka
17-03-2005, 18:42
Magus from Chrono Trigger is the best antihero ever.

Wouldn't say "ever," but he's up there :D
You Forgot Poland
17-03-2005, 18:45
You know who was a great friggin' villain? Daniel Day-Lewis's Bill the Butcher in the otherwise gawdawful Gangs of New York.
Sdaeriji
17-03-2005, 19:01
I love anti-heroes. I think Spawn is my favorite, followed by the Punisher.
Lascivious Maximus
17-03-2005, 19:09
I love anti-heroes. I think Spawn is my favorite, followed by the Punisher.
The Punisher RULES!! I always liked Ghost Rider too - and hope there is truth to rumors about it becoming a motion picture (though it could never compare to the comics of course!)
Domici
17-03-2005, 20:15
It is kind of the opposite, he isn't a hero but he opposes the villian or fulfills the role of a hero. Catwoman from "Batman 2", Clint Eastwood from "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly."

In my opinion those are always the deepest characters, they normally have deep issues that keep them from being good, but through some external motivation are drawn to the side of good.

Any star of a Grand Theft Auto game.

He's the protagonist, he's just too much of a bastard to call him the hero.
E Blackadder
17-03-2005, 20:39
i like anti heroes such as kain and raziel from legacy of kain
DandylionEaters
17-03-2005, 20:46
I voted for "Other" mainly because I like the Reluctant Hero the most (most notably Harrison Ford playing Han Solo in Star Wars), although I guess it could be considered an Anti-Hero too... semantics :)
DandylionEaters
17-03-2005, 20:47
Oh and Kurgen from Highlander (the first and only good one) is probably my favourite villain :)
Truth and Lies
17-03-2005, 20:57
I like anti-heros. They do good acts but are badassed. The best anti-hero is defintly the Punisher! :sniper:
Taldaan
17-03-2005, 21:13
Anti-hero. Unfortunately, they are now common to the point of cliche. Luckily, there are some very good ones: Magus and Gilgamesh come to mind (both completely awesome, although I slightly prefer Magus), as does Spawn.

Villains come a close second, especially the camp, funny, but incredibly dangerous variety.
Vittos Ordination
17-03-2005, 21:34
You know who was a great friggin' villain? Daniel Day-Lewis's Bill the Butcher in the otherwise gawdawful Gangs of New York.

Damn skippy.

In the other thread, I picked Daniel Day-Lewis to play me in an autobiography simply because of that role. If anyone can make me look like a badass, its him.
Ninja Zombie Dinosaurs
17-03-2005, 21:49
Sam Vimes
Sam Vimes is one of the finest characters ever put to print, anywhere.
You Forgot Poland
17-03-2005, 21:59
Damn skippy.

In the other thread, I picked Daniel Day-Lewis to play me in an autobiography simply because of that role. If anyone can make me look like a badass, its him.

That movie would have been so feckin' good if Billy had been the protagonist. I thought Scorcese had enough sack to avoid falling into Hollywood convention, but his recent reliance on the little man-boy matinee idol Leonardo proves me wrong.
Phycotica
17-03-2005, 22:00
Anti-Hero is the best because it's not black and white. It's like a hero and villan rolled into one. How can you go wrong with a choice like that?
Then again, the hero paladin is always fun "Smite makes right".