NationStates Jolt Archive

This will mostly be geared toward Americans, but all others, please feel free to join in. I value your opinions.

OK, kiddies, gather round and let me speak my peace.

There are a few special intrest groups out there mucking up things for everyone. Let's look at this a moment shall we?

Abortion:

Oh, this is a big one, isn't it? No, not really. Now, personally, my wife and I wouldn't abort a child. However, there are these religious groups running about the countryside complaining about it. Look at it this way folks. If you believe abortion is wrong on religious grounds, why not let the big guy be in control for a while. If it is, indeed, a sin or something, those that choose this path will go to hell for it, right? Why don't we just leave it the hell alone fore awhile and let the Big Man be in control? He can handle it. So stop worrying about it. Stop trying to "save" everybody. We'll be fine, thanks.

To you ladies who decide to have abortions, think about it long and hard first. Never jump into anything without thinking about it. Especially something like this. It is well known the this "proceedure" has some physical and mental concequences. Either now, or down the road. And buy some goddamn birthcontrol, will ya? That goes for you boys too. And read the directions on the back of the box. Shit happens, but lets not just toss the thing on ol' johnny and expect it to work. Let's educate or selves some.

Gay Marrriage/Rights:

The above applies for the religious folks again. Leave everbody alone. They're big boys and girls. Just shut it. Unplug for a second and put yourself in their shoes. None of this "sex is for reproduction first and pleasure second" garbage, either. We are not cattle. We are thinking, pleasure seeking creatures. Much like dolphins, whom have been seen using the "pull out" method of birth control. Let the homosexuals be. They are, on the whole, damn fine people. Let them love as they would. Being human, a large part of love is the physical, pleasurable act of sex. You do your thing, let them do theirs'. And let Bob shout from the mountaintops, his love for Bill. Same goes for Jane and Mary. Should they get a tax break for it, good for them.

Well, this is where I'd lecture the gays for a second. But, I can't seem to think of anything. Guess y'all are just getting hosed. Sorry about that.

Marijuana:

Legalize it. Period(full stop for you Brits). Put it in boxes of twenty. Throw the same laws as alcohol on it and toss a "Don't Tke and Drive" campaign together. Tax it. Feed the homeless or something. The mystique of drugs in America might just drop a bit. Not to mention freeing up the valuable time of some fine law enforcement officials.

Hunting/Gun Control:

Leave this alone. The country's a lot better place when I can hunt and fish this great land.

Anyone who proclaims the wrongness of hunt and eats meat is an asshole. What, do findit more noble for somebody else to bludgeon the animal you're about to eat to death? I got some news for you, it ain't.

Vegitarians, vegans and other. Shut up. I don't want to hear it. I eat meat and will continue to do so. You worry about you, I'll worry about me.


There you go, in a nutshell, just shut the fuck up. Let's worry about crime and the economy and the fact that current laws are killing the American Craftsman. not some whiny, needling bullshit. Thank you for your time.

I am concurring with this.

Norbalius, you are now my friend.

From Texas and moving to PA. I think I love you Potaria.

Sounds like civil libertarianism to me...

Sounds good to me! Maybe if people actually take this seriously, there won't be so much bitching in the forums about all this stuff. :headbang:

From Texas and moving to PA. I think I love you Potaria.


I think I love myself as well, but I'm not too sure. I really don't "feel" anything.

Not libertarianism. I think society has a responsibilty to help each other out. I just don't think was shoould bitch about it so much. I've got more of this stuff too. ike Energy. Don't get me started on oil...

Oil's pretty stupid for use as a form of energy. However, we use it for *many* products. It's great for manufacturing, and if done correctly, barely pollutes at all. But energy? Pfff.

Norbalius - I like your thoughts on the various subjects - take a round of applause and a virtual round at the bar on me!

*participates in the applause with extreme enthusiasm*

Couldn't have said it better myself. Whats really amazing though is that all these issues are huge in Canada as well. I mean we've almost legalized gay marriage now.

I think an issue that affects almost everybody in every country out there spreads from your gun control is sentancing of criminals. Just recently here in Canada, 4 RCMP officers were killed by a man, who although hadn't committed any crimes of extremely serious nature (minor assault charges, etc...), had the potential and did in fact became the most notorious cop killer in our country. This man had numerous charges for "little" things that began to pile up over the years and nobody saw these as a sign to come. maybe instead of having a 3 strikes your out rule when it comes to offenses governments should implement a bill/law/act that states someones first offense should be one of their harshest. Instead of locking up a convienence store robber for 2 years but having him parolled after 6 months lock him for 6 years with no chance of parole. I mean, parolling criminals is completely useless. They have deemed unsafe to society and therefore should have to serve their sentances, no matter how good of an inmate they are. They have committed a crime, give them the reward for that crime...a jail cell, not a free ride home after a 6 month leave from work. As for the more dangerous criminals (murders, rapists, etc...) why even let them out of jail. Yes we can try to rehabilitate them, but don't let them out of jail. Sorry but I don't feel comfortable knowing that the parole board just let some sociopath out after serving 10 years of a 20 year sentance for killing 5 people.

Just my beef on a particular issue.....

You know, internal combustion has been around for a while. I'm willing to bet that it will be around for quite a while longer too. Ever heard of Ethanol? The GM Corporation was forword thinking enough to make my truck engine ready to use it. Maybe, instead of fighting over it all over the world, America should legalize it as the fuel of choice for automobiles. It burns cleaner, more efficiently and puts money into the pockets of the struggling farmer, rather than some rich oil shiek in the middle east. Sounds pretty win-win to me.

I'm British, and I agree with pretty much all your stances on those topics. My stances on gay rights, guns and drugs are that it's none of the government's business. I say legalize everything which doesn't harm another person without their consent. However, I don't agree with taxing marijuana more heavily than any other crop or commodity, and feel taxation on buying and selling should be minimal if not non-existant. The cheaper it is to sell marijuana, the more lucrative a market it will become, and the faster marijuana growing technology will advance, creating better produce.

As for abortion, I agree here. Of course, a certain way into pregnancy, aborting a baby could become murderous, but for me this would only be at the point at which such a child could realistically survive outside the womb. Before that though, abortion's just fine in my book.

I am concurring with this.
The only thing he forgot was:

Drugs: If someone wants to be stupid, let them. As long as I don't have to pay for them being stupid, it's fine with me. In fact, it might go a long way to keep crime low to have the government put huge bins of crack and meth and heroin in certain neighborhoods.

I agree with everything you said, except on the subject of gun control.

Yeah, I think the government should let people use weapons for hunting and sport, but handguns, assault rifles and rocket launchers should be illegal.

I agree with everything you said, except on the subject of gun control.

Yeah, I think the government should let people use weapons for hunting and sport, but handguns, assault rifles and rocket launchers should be illegal.

Here in America, we manage just fine with handguns and assault rifles. BTW, any semi-automatic rifle has so much in common with an "assault rifle" that it's impossible to ban them here.

Rocket launchers are already illegal here. But, you can get a permit for one if you're a licensed manufacturer or weapons dealer. You have to have a legitimate business.

From Texas and moving to PA. I think I love you Potaria.

Very well stated - you are so eloquent. And I agree with all that you said, Norbalius.

WOW!!!
There's quite a few people moving to PA. What's the attraction? I love it here but I'm curious as to why you're moving here, Norbalius.

Here in America, we manage just fine with handguns and assault rifles. BTW, any semi-automatic rifle has so much in common with an "assault rifle" that it's impossible to ban them here.

Rocket launchers are already illegal here. But, you can get a permit for one if you're a licensed manufacturer or weapons dealer. You have to have a legitimate business.
Wait, you do? What about the high rates of violent crimes involving handguns?

As for Rocket launchers, what possible legitimate business could you have with one?

Sounds good to me, I dont really care about the first two, object slightly the the third and agree with the fourth :)
I especialy agree that everybody needs to just 'Shut the fuck up' and let the damn country do what it does. Democracy (suprisingly) has worked for the last two hundred years here, most of the time, and the country has YET to erupt in more than one civil war.
Also, I think that dueling should be legal for govornment officials, there are too many as is, so they could do with somet thinning out. It would mean fewer career politicians as well.

Wait, you do? What about the high rates of violent crimes involving handguns?

As for Rocket launchers, what possible legitimate business could you have with one?

1. Only 24 percent of violent crimes in the US involve a weapon of any kind (most felons commit violent crimes unarmed here).

2. Let's say you're a defense contractor. You make and sell rocket launchers to the government.

This will mostly be geared toward Americans, but all others, please feel free to join in. I value your opinions.

OK, kiddies, gather round and let me speak my peace.

There are a few special intrest groups out there mucking up things for everyone. Let's look at this a moment shall we?

Abortion:

Oh, this is a big one, isn't it? No, not really. Now, personally, my wife and I wouldn't abort a child. However, there are these religious groups running about the countryside complaining about it. Look at it this way folks. If you believe abortion is wrong on religious grounds, why not let the big guy be in control for a while. If it is, indeed, a sin or something, those that choose this path will go to hell for it, right? Why don't we just leave it the hell alone fore awhile and let the Big Man be in control? He can handle it. So stop worrying about it. Stop trying to "save" everybody. We'll be fine, thanks.

To you ladies who decide to have abortions, think about it long and hard first. Never jump into anything without thinking about it. Especially something like this. It is well known the this "proceedure" has some physical and mental concequences. Either now, or down the road. And buy some goddamn birthcontrol, will ya? That goes for you boys too. And read the directions on the back of the box. Shit happens, but lets not just toss the thing on ol' johnny and expect it to work. Let's educate or selves some.

Gay Marrriage/Rights:

The above applies for the religious folks again. Leave everbody alone. They're big boys and girls. Just shut it. Unplug for a second and put yourself in their shoes. None of this "sex is for reproduction first and pleasure second" garbage, either. We are not cattle. We are thinking, pleasure seeking creatures. Much like dolphins, whom have been seen using the "pull out" method of birth control. Let the homosexuals be. They are, on the whole, damn fine people. Let them love as they would. Being human, a large part of love is the physical, pleasurable act of sex. You do your thing, let them do theirs'. And let Bob shout from the mountaintops, his love for Bill. Same goes for Jane and Mary. Should they get a tax break for it, good for them.

Well, this is where I'd lecture the gays for a second. But, I can't seem to think of anything. Guess y'all are just getting hosed. Sorry about that.

Marijuana:

Legalize it. Period(full stop for you Brits). Put it in boxes of twenty. Throw the same laws as alcohol on it and toss a "Don't Tke and Drive" campaign together. Tax it. Feed the homeless or something. The mystique of drugs in America might just drop a bit. Not to mention freeing up the valuable time of some fine law enforcement officials.

Hunting/Gun Control:

Leave this alone. The country's a lot better place when I can hunt and fish this great land.

Anyone who proclaims the wrongness of hunt and eats meat is an asshole. What, do findit more noble for somebody else to bludgeon the animal you're about to eat to death? I got some news for you, it ain't.

Vegitarians, vegans and other. Shut up. I don't want to hear it. I eat meat and will continue to do so. You worry about you, I'll worry about me.


There you go, in a nutshell, just shut the fuck up. Let's worry about crime and the economy and the fact that current laws are killing the American Craftsman. not some whiny, needling bullshit. Thank you for your time.


I quite agree. I'm glad a lot of others on this thread do too. Maybe there's hope.

*snip*

I agree with everything except the Marriage thing...

Why do Gays NEED it to be called Marriage instead of a Civil Union? As long as a Civil Union is afforded the exact same Rights by Law?

Marriage has the tradition, for many, that is something condoned by God. Why do Gay people feel they need to infringe on that Tradition, if they have their own venue for the Legal Rights it brings?

It is basically THEIR WAY of FORCING their ideals on the Majority, is it not?

Why is it ok for them to do such things to Religious Tradition, but when that works in reverse you get all offended?

Or is it ok with you if we condone the Bashing of what a Marriage stands for in a Traditional Religous sense?

I just don't get it...

Regards,
Gaar

This will mostly be geared toward Americans, but all others, please feel free to join in. I value your opinions.

OK, kiddies, gather round and let me speak my peace.

There are a few special intrest groups out there mucking up things for everyone. Let's look at this a moment shall we?

Abortion:

Oh, this is a big one, isn't it? No, not really. Now, personally, my wife and I wouldn't abort a child. However, there are these religious groups running about the countryside complaining about it. Look at it this way folks. If you believe abortion is wrong on religious grounds, why not let the big guy be in control for a while. If it is, indeed, a sin or something, those that choose this path will go to hell for it, right? Why don't we just leave it the hell alone fore awhile and let the Big Man be in control? He can handle it. So stop worrying about it. Stop trying to "save" everybody. We'll be fine, thanks.

To you ladies who decide to have abortions, think about it long and hard first. Never jump into anything without thinking about it. Especially something like this. It is well known the this "proceedure" has some physical and mental concequences. Either now, or down the road. And buy some goddamn birthcontrol, will ya? That goes for you boys too. And read the directions on the back of the box. Shit happens, but lets not just toss the thing on ol' johnny and expect it to work. Let's educate or selves some.

Gay Marrriage/Rights:

The above applies for the religious folks again. Leave everbody alone. They're big boys and girls. Just shut it. Unplug for a second and put yourself in their shoes. None of this "sex is for reproduction first and pleasure second" garbage, either. We are not cattle. We are thinking, pleasure seeking creatures. Much like dolphins, whom have been seen using the "pull out" method of birth control. Let the homosexuals be. They are, on the whole, damn fine people. Let them love as they would. Being human, a large part of love is the physical, pleasurable act of sex. You do your thing, let them do theirs'. And let Bob shout from the mountaintops, his love for Bill. Same goes for Jane and Mary. Should they get a tax break for it, good for them.

Well, this is where I'd lecture the gays for a second. But, I can't seem to think of anything. Guess y'all are just getting hosed. Sorry about that.

Marijuana:

Legalize it. Period(full stop for you Brits). Put it in boxes of twenty. Throw the same laws as alcohol on it and toss a "Don't Tke and Drive" campaign together. Tax it. Feed the homeless or something. The mystique of drugs in America might just drop a bit. Not to mention freeing up the valuable time of some fine law enforcement officials.

Hunting/Gun Control:

Leave this alone. The country's a lot better place when I can hunt and fish this great land.

Anyone who proclaims the wrongness of hunt and eats meat is an asshole. What, do findit more noble for somebody else to bludgeon the animal you're about to eat to death? I got some news for you, it ain't.

Vegitarians, vegans and other. Shut up. I don't want to hear it. I eat meat and will continue to do so. You worry about you, I'll worry about me.


There you go, in a nutshell, just shut the fuck up. Let's worry about crime and the economy and the fact that current laws are killing the American Craftsman. not some whiny, needling bullshit. Thank you for your time.

Kiss, kiss! ;)

Norbalius... were you watching Penn and Teller's Bullshit?

The only thing he forgot was:

Drugs: If someone wants to be stupid, let them. As long as I don't have to pay for them being stupid, it's fine with me. In fact, it might go a long way to keep crime low to have the government put huge bins of crack and meth and heroin in certain neighborhoods.


The problem with drugs being legal is that if more people see it as alright and do it, and then go driving, and kill your family in a car wreck or all crazy and shoot up a place, that can't be good. Maybe if we want to allow people to be stupid, we should make special instituions where they can go so that the drugged up people are separated from the sobers out in the real world, and then they have to sober up again until they can leave.. like.. a... party house. It's hard to explain.

CAUTION: This thread makes sense!

Duck and cover!

As for Rocket launchers, what possible legitimate business could you have with one?
Land sharks (http://snltranscripts.jt.org/75/75djaws2.phtml).

I am concurring with this.

So am I.

Land sharks (http://snltranscripts.jt.org/75/75djaws2.phtml).

According to this skit, a land shark would be too close to use a rocket launcher on without blowing yourself up.

I agree with everything except the Marriage thing...

Why do Gays NEED it to be called Marriage instead of a Civil Union? As long as a Civil Union is afforded the exact same Rights by Law?

Marriage has the tradition, for many, that is something condoned by God. Why do Gay people feel they need to infringe on that Tradition, if they have their own venue for the Legal Rights it brings?

It is basically THEIR WAY of FORCING their ideals on the Majority, is it not?

Why is it ok for them to do such things to Religious Tradition, but when that works in reverse you get all offended?

Or is it ok with you if we condone the Bashing of what a Marriage stands for in a Traditional Religous sense?

I just don't get it...

Regards,
Gaar


How does what they call it when they get hitched for life, force anything on you? At all? Does it force you to re-evaluate your own traditions of marriage? Does it force you to go to homosexual marriages? Does it force you away from God? Does it limit your activities or scope of behavior? Does it infringe on your liberties?

It doesn't. Quit your whining.

Regards,

I am concurring with this.

Me seventeen (or so).

As far as drugs: complete legalisation. But no mercy for crimes commited under the influance of a known intoxicant - penalties increase, if anything (with an automatic death penalty for any degree of homoicide or manslaughter.) The same goes for currently legal intoxicants.

What about the high rates of violent crimes involving handguns?

Any crimes involving the unprovoked initiation of deadly force (including the mere carrying of a deadly weapon) are, IMO, the equivilant of attempted murder, and should be treated as such.

As for Rocket launchers, what possible legitimate business could you have with one?

They're a hell of a lot of fun.

And, as for marriage, why the bleeding hell there are any laws regarding marriage beyond contract and inheritance law, I just do not understand. Get John Law out of everyone's private life. :mad:

I'll be in the (evident) dissenting minority.

Abortion; you're right. This isn't a "big" problem as it comes to solving it; logically, the development of a human begins at conception and ends with their natural death. So, logically, "life", or the property that distinguishes living organisms from dead organisms, manifested in development, metabolism, growth, and response to stimuli or adaptation to the environment from within the organism, begins at conception.

Yes, it's true; it does. All that stuff happens in a human embryo, which becomes "more defined" with time. Don't say it starts with birth; that's simply a consequence of life, that is, it's development and growth within the womb.

Don't say it's a "choice" on the part of the woman for matters of convenience; she made her choice when having sex that opens her to life. Natural law dictates that the women be instrumental in the procreation of human life; don't get mad at "your God, which I don't believe in" - get mad then at mother nature, who made it that way. Termination of life for matters of convenience is considered homicide - when she opened herself to life through sex, it can only be said that as a matter of forethought she knew the consequences and consented to take on the responsibility of life were it to be made present through her actions. Not that I put all the accountability for this life on the woman: the man had an equal share in the creation of life (so says nature), and he shall have an equal share in caring for that life. If he doesn't like that; tough luck.

In short, it's got nothing to do with God, as it were. By your line of reasoning, Christians "should be okay" with all crime because "God will take care of the sinner" - get your head out of your buttox.

Okay; gay marriage. I take issue with the statement that the statement "Sex is for reproduction first" is garbage; beacause, sex is for reproduction first. Biologically speaking, that's the way it is for animals, that's the way it is for us; the physical pleasure associated with sex is ancillary, it only serves to motivate us to engage in sex and procreate, ensuring the survival of our species. It can be said that use of the sexual organs for something other than procreation is a perversion in the most literal sense of the term; that is, for something other than their intended purposes. See? No God, just nature. Don't bring God into the argument, I'm not.

That being said, homosexual marriage cannot exist, simply because of what marriage is; a long-term partnership between a man and a woman whereby the sexual faculty leads to the procration of offspring which are then cared for over a decade-long process.

Society can play with words all it wants, and legally define marriage as anything it wants, and encourage homosexual union through granting them the status of married people regarding taxes, insurance, inheritance, whatever; but it's still a legal fiction. It doesn't change the reality of marriage or the nature of the role the man-woman relationship has from simply the "human" perspective; this will continue unaltered no matter what changes around it as long as humans wish to keep on keepin' on.

Now, don't claim I'm a gay-hater (I am not), and don't claim I am trying to discriminate. Anyone who treats gays with any less compassion than anyone else is at best guilty of hypocrisy and at worst guilty of a hate crime; I have no respect for such people, and I will not tolerate them. But anyone who twists the issue by bringing God into it, and polluting it by claiming anyone who disagrees is a "hater" has not my respect nor any credibility.

As for illegal drugs being legalized; they were at one point. IIRC, during the 1910s and 20s, things like opium and cocaine were all legal - they were then banned due to the adverse effects they were having on society. I object to the legalization of marijuana from a strictly legal sense; that to bring it back would be to reintroduce a dangerous substance with little to no benefit into society. (Taxes aren't a benefit to society; otherwise we'd slap a fee on everything)

Gun control - why should a law-abiding citizen not be allowed to carry a firearm?

--

Don't flame this post, don't twist my words, and don't bring up God.

I'll just pick at one of your remarks for now.

Define life. Not in a biological sense, or religious sense, but in a legal sense. You can't, can you? I'm sure you'll come back with something snappy on this. Bullshit. There is no legal representation of life in the United States. Science can't even agree upon an one point where awareness begins. Therefore, because I really don't care about the moral or religious sense on any of these issues, it really doesn't matter.

Also, in the future, don't tell people what they can and cannot bring up in a debate. It's infantile and I will post you back in this hostile manner.

Abortion:

Oh, this is a big one, isn't it? No, not really. Now, personally, my wife and I wouldn't abort a child. However, there are these religious groups running about the countryside complaining about it. Look at it this way folks. If you believe abortion is wrong on religious grounds, why not let the big guy be in control for a while. If it is, indeed, a sin or something, those that choose this path will go to hell for it, right? Why don't we just leave it the hell alone fore awhile and let the Big Man be in control? He can handle it. So stop worrying about it. Stop trying to "save" everybody. We'll be fine, thanks.

To you ladies who decide to have abortions, think about it long and hard first. Never jump into anything without thinking about it. Especially something like this. It is well known the this "proceedure" has some physical and mental concequences. Either now, or down the road. And buy some goddamn birthcontrol, will ya? That goes for you boys too. And read the directions on the back of the box. Shit happens, but lets not just toss the thing on ol' johnny and expect it to work. Let's educate or selves some.so you're pro choice? while you preach against it, it seems like you are for the women choosing whether or not to go through the procedure. Gay Marrriage/Rights:

The above applies for the religious folks again. Leave everbody alone. They're big boys and girls. Just shut it. Unplug for a second and put yourself in their shoes. None of this "sex is for reproduction first and pleasure second" garbage, either. We are not cattle. We are thinking, pleasure seeking creatures. Much like dolphins, whom have been seen using the "pull out" method of birth control. Let the homosexuals be. They are, on the whole, damn fine people. Let them love as they would. Being human, a large part of love is the physical, pleasurable act of sex. You do your thing, let them do theirs'. And let Bob shout from the mountaintops, his love for Bill. Same goes for Jane and Mary. Should they get a tax break for it, good for them.

Well, this is where I'd lecture the gays for a second. But, I can't seem to think of anything. Guess y'all are just getting hosed. Sorry about that.Marrage is a religious institution. if they want Civil Unions go for it, but Marrage is basied in religion. thus they should have a say in it. If the government places a greater benifit in a non-religous baised Civil Union... then go for it.Marijuana:

Legalize it. Period(full stop for you Brits). Put it in boxes of twenty. Throw the same laws as alcohol on it and toss a "Don't Tke and Drive" campaign together. Tax it. Feed the homeless or something. The mystique of drugs in America might just drop a bit. Not to mention freeing up the valuable time of some fine law enforcement officials.errr the don't drink and drive campain really isn't working... what makes you think the Don't Toke and Drive will? Drugs remove the person's judgment. while it has some medicinal value, majority of users (and abusers) don't take it for the medicinal value. Legalizing it really won't solve any problems but will create new ones. I really don't wanna see our military hopped up on LSD. or our President on Depressants. Imagine someone with that many nuclear missiles at his comand feeling suicidal... or worse, on a bad acid trip.Hunting/Gun Control:

Leave this alone. The country's a lot better place when I can hunt and fish this great land.

Anyone who proclaims the wrongness of hunt and eats meat is an asshole. What, do findit more noble for somebody else to bludgeon the animal you're about to eat to death? I got some news for you, it ain't.

Vegitarians, vegans and other. Shut up. I don't want to hear it. I eat meat and will continue to do so. You worry about you, I'll worry about me. I really have no opinions on this matter.There you go, in a nutshell, just shut the fuck up. Let's worry about crime and the economy and the fact that current laws are killing the American Craftsman. not some whiny, needling bullshit. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your thoughts on this matter.

Define life. Not in a biological sense, or religious sense, but in a legal sense. You can't, can you? I'm sure you'll come back with something snappy on this. Bullshit. There is no legal representation of life in the United States. Science can't even agree upon an one point where awareness begins. Therefore, because I really don't care about the moral or religious sense on any of these issues, it really doesn't matter.

Life is a process that begins at conception and ends with a persons natural death. That's pretty logical; what part would you disagree with? I'm going to assume you agreed with all of it, because you failed to say otherwise.

Also, in the future, don't tell people what they can and cannot bring up in a debate. It's infantile and I will post you back in this hostile manner.

You seemed keen on God, so I told you not to bring the topic of religion up. Robs you secularists of any standing you had. Good try, though.

That being said, homosexual marriage cannot exist, simply because of what marriage is; a long-term partnership between a man and a woman whereby the sexual faculty leads to the procration of offspring which are then cared for over a decade-long process.


Not flaming or slammin ya here, but the wording used is a little unclear. It makes it sound as though a man and a woman must have children for a marriage to be a real marriage. A sterile couple could get married and live happily for life and it would be no less a marriage. Again, I think it's more a wording thing than anything else.

Drugs remove the person's judgment. while it has some medicinal value, majority of users (and abusers) don't take it for the medicinal value. Legalizing it really won't solve any problems but will create new ones. I really don't wanna see our military hopped up on LSD. or our President on Depressants. Imagine someone with that many nuclear missiles at his comand feeling suicidal... or worse, on a bad acid trip.

Apparently you think "legal" means "President and military become raving drug-addicts on the job."

If that's the case why isn't Dubya a drunkard (sheesh, imagine being drunk and accidentally hitting The Red Button - very possible, no?)? Maybe he is. In which case it could only get better if the President was on some better drug than alcohol, which is actually a toxin (that's why it has medicinal value - it kills bacteria as well as brain cells - other drugs don't).

Meh. Legalizing will solve the problems of a prison population - wards of the state, with better living conditions than most homeless people and many third world citizens -a population that, in the US, is larger than many nations on this Earth.

Legalizing will allow police more time and energy and resources to tackle more serious crimes - you know, like murder, theft, terrorism.

Legalize.

This will mostly be geared toward Americans, but all others, please feel free to join in. I value your opinions.

OK, kiddies, gather round and let me speak my peace.

There are a few special intrest groups out there mucking up things for everyone. Let's look at this a moment shall we?

Abortion:

Oh, this is a big one, isn't it? No, not really. Now, personally, my wife and I wouldn't abort a child. However, there are these religious groups running about the countryside complaining about it. Look at it this way folks. If you believe abortion is wrong on religious grounds, why not let the big guy be in control for a while. If it is, indeed, a sin or something, those that choose this path will go to hell for it, right? Why don't we just leave it the hell alone fore awhile and let the Big Man be in control? He can handle it. So stop worrying about it. Stop trying to "save" everybody. We'll be fine, thanks.

To you ladies who decide to have abortions, think about it long and hard first. Never jump into anything without thinking about it. Especially something like this. It is well known the this "proceedure" has some physical and mental concequences. Either now, or down the road. And buy some goddamn birthcontrol, will ya? That goes for you boys too. And read the directions on the back of the box. Shit happens, but lets not just toss the thing on ol' johnny and expect it to work. Let's educate or selves some.

AGREE

Gay Marrriage/Rights:

The above applies for the religious folks again. Leave everbody alone. They're big boys and girls. Just shut it. Unplug for a second and put yourself in their shoes. None of this "sex is for reproduction first and pleasure second" garbage, either. We are not cattle. We are thinking, pleasure seeking creatures. Much like dolphins, whom have been seen using the "pull out" method of birth control. Let the homosexuals be. They are, on the whole, damn fine people. Let them love as they would. Being human, a large part of love is the physical, pleasurable act of sex. You do your thing, let them do theirs'. And let Bob shout from the mountaintops, his love for Bill. Same goes for Jane and Mary. Should they get a tax break for it, good for them.

Well, this is where I'd lecture the gays for a second. But, I can't seem to think of anything. Guess y'all are just getting hosed. Sorry about that.

AGREE BUT.. if they want a child, let them make it... no adoption

Marijuana:

Legalize it. Period(full stop for you Brits). Put it in boxes of twenty. Throw the same laws as alcohol on it and toss a "Don't Tke and Drive" campaign together. Tax it. Feed the homeless or something. The mystique of drugs in America might just drop a bit. Not to mention freeing up the valuable time of some fine law enforcement officials.

AGREE

Hunting/Gun Control:

Leave this alone. The country's a lot better place when I can hunt and fish this great land.

Anyone who proclaims the wrongness of hunt and eats meat is an asshole. What, do findit more noble for somebody else to bludgeon the animal you're about to eat to death? I got some news for you, it ain't.

Vegitarians, vegans and other. Shut up. I don't want to hear it. I eat meat and will continue to do so. You worry about you, I'll worry about me.


There you go, in a nutshell, just shut the fuck up. Let's worry about crime and the economy and the fact that current laws are killing the American Craftsman. not some whiny, needling bullshit. Thank you for your time.

AGREE.. but not killing 100 animals in one day just for pleasure.

How does what they call it when they get hitched for life, force anything on you? At all? Does it force you to re-evaluate your own traditions of marriage? Does it force you to go to homosexual marriages? Does it force you away from God? Does it limit your activities or scope of behavior? Does it infringe on your liberties?

It doesn't. Quit your whining.

Regards,

They are denegrating the Sanctity of Marriage, in a Religous sense. Why do they NEED to do that?

Is that so hard to understand?

And again, if they have "another venue" that grants them the exact same Rights what IS THEIR objection?

I notice you didn't address that in your reply, and I wouldn't mind hearing why you think it is...

Regards,
Gaar

Apparently you think "legal" means "President and military become raving drug-addicts on the job."

If that's the case why isn't Dubya a drunkard (sheesh, imagine being drunk and accidentally hitting The Red Button - very possible, no?)? Maybe he is. In which case it could only get better if the President was on some better drug than alcohol, which is actually a toxin (that's why it has medicinal value - it kills bacteria as well as brain cells - other drugs don't).

Meh. Legalizing will solve the problems of a prison population - wards of the state, with better living conditions than most homeless people and many third world citizens -a population that, in the US, is larger than many nations on this Earth.

Legalizing will allow police more time and energy and resources to tackle more serious crimes - you know, like murder, theft, terrorism.

Legalize.

There is the Larger Issue as to whether it is Constitutional to Legislate "Morals"... i.e. An Act that has no REAL victim.

Regards,
Gaar

They are denegrating the Sanctity of Marriage, in a Religous sense. Why do they NEED to do that?

Is that so hard to understand?

Frankly, there are NOT doing any such thing. Dude, if I marry my cat, and someone officially calls it a marriage, does that actually have an effect on anyone else's marriage vows? Does it???? NO.

You've said that they were 'forcing' it, and now that they are 'denegrating the sanctity of marriage.' But they aren't. They're having their marriages - heterosexuals have their own - I guess we should just let God be the judge of whose marriage is sacred and whose is not, shouldn't we?

Oh wait, it's better to skip God and do the judging OURSELVES, yes?

And again, if they have "another venue" that grants them the exact same Rights what IS THEIR objection?

I don't know, ask them. But I'd guess it's because they want the word of marriage. Just like you don't want them to use that word.

Is all of this anger and frustration really over use of a word? Let God sort it out, let them use whatever words they want, because - to be honest - they will anyway. I've never seen what the big deal is personally - personally I think the 'sanctity of marriage' concept is pretty laughable, but then I don't even believe in that God concept either.

.
personally I think the 'sanctity of marriage' concept is pretty laughable, but then I don't even believe in that God concept either.

You dont have to believe it. Its fact. Marriage was primaryly a religious institution before the government got involved. Therefore you are forcing a religious institution to accept something that is opposed to that religion. Thats like forcing all Muslims to go eat pork during Ramadan in daylight. I think the church would accept something with the same civil provisions but a seperate instiutuion but the Gay lobby want to make it the same.

<snip>


I Love You!

You dont have to believe it. Its fact. Marriage was primaryly a religious institution before the government got involved. Therefore you are forcing a religious institution to accept something that is opposed to that religion. Thats like forcing all Muslims to go eat pork during Ramadan in daylight. I think the church would accept something with the same civil provisions but a seperate instiutuion but the Gay lobby want to make it the same.

First - no, the sanctity of marriage is not fact, except in the sense that the Church considers marriage a sacred thing. Sanctity means " Holiness of life or disposition; saintliness.

The quality or condition of being considered sacred; inviolability"

It also means "something considered sacred" - and on that one, yes, some people do consider marriage sacred. However, enough of them don't so that I would be hesitant to call it a "fact" that marriage is sacred.

Second - Government always sticks its head in, doesn't it? Being there, however, it doesn't look like it's going to get out anytime soon.

Third - I'm not forcing anything on anyone. Jeez I'm not even doing anything. People are awful worried about having stuff forced on them in this thread, I've noticed, so much so that they spend time worrying about stuff that isn't forced on THEM at all...

Marijuana:

Legalize it. Period(full stop for you Brits). Put it in boxes of twenty. Throw the same laws as alcohol on it and toss a "Don't Tke and Drive" campaign together. Tax it. Feed the homeless or something. The mystique of drugs in America might just drop a bit. Not to mention freeing up the valuable time of some fine law enforcement officials.
I agree with everything in your post except this. Two wrongs don't make a right, and legalizing anything is tatamount to giving everyone permission to use it. I don't want my children or especially my grandchildren using marijuana ( or cigarettes, or alcohol, or steroids, or anything else that harms their bodies or their minds ) and I don't need the government telling them it's ok 'cause it's legal.

I agree with everything in your post except this. Two wrongs don't make a right, and legalizing anything is tatamount to giving everyone permission to use it. I don't want my children or especially my grandchildren using marijuana ( or cigarettes, or alcohol, or steroids, or anything else that harms their bodies or their minds ) and I don't need the government telling them it's ok 'cause it's legal.

So YOU NEED the Government to do the Parenting?

Where do YOU get the Right to restrict absolutely EVERYONE else's Right?

What Right of YOURS have THEY infringed on when they "do it"?

You may feel FREE to "Restrict" its use in any way you see fit, just as we do with Alcohol, Tobacco and many other things in our Society.

But to OutLaw them OutRight is another matter entirely...

It brings about things MUCH WORSE for our Society than the ills of the problem itself.

Regards,
Gaar

So YOU NEED the Government to do the Parenting?

Where do YOU get the Right to restrict absolutely EVERYONE else's Right?

What Right of YOURS have THEY infringed on when they "do it"?

You may feel FREE to "Restrict" its use in any way you see fit, just as we do with Alcohol, Tobacco and many other things in our Society.

But to OutLaw them OutRight is another matter entirely...

It brings about things MUCH WORSE for our Society than the ills of the problem itself.

Regards,
Gaar

Normally, Urantia, I would agree with you, but I can't here. Drugs are bad. Sometimes you DO have to protect people from themselves.

Case in point: When I was assistant manager at the convenience store, I had to regulate people's alcohol purchases when working the cash registers. A lot of people tried to fake their age. Some people legitimately bought a ton of alcohol after they were 21, because they were programmed by society to think that it's cool to drink yourself sick when you turn 21.

A lot of those people got arrested for doing stupid things under the influence. Apparantly they weren't mature enough to buy alcohol DESPITE being 21. If alcohol were banned, crime would increase, but drunk driving would decrease. There would be less innocent lives taken in DUI incidents.

Clearly the legalisation of drugs would have a negative effect on the country.

So YOU NEED the Government to do the Parenting?

Where do YOU get the Right to restrict absolutely EVERYONE else's Right?

What Right of YOURS have THEY infringed on when they "do it"?

You may feel FREE to "Restrict" its use in any way you see fit, just as we do with Alcohol, Tobacco and many other things in our Society.

But to OutLaw them OutRight is another matter entirely...

It brings about things MUCH WORSE for our Society than the ills of the problem itself.

Regards,
Gaar

I've gotta agree with you here, man. Quite well-put.

Normally, Urantia, I would agree with you, but I can't here. Drugs are bad. Sometimes you DO have to protect people from themselves.

Clearly the legalisation of drugs would have a negative effect on the country.

Sorry, I have to disagree...

When you allow such things you are allowing things to become crimes which are not crimes.

It produces things like Drug Lords and Dealers in our Society, that then start doing things MUCH WORSE than if we dealt with them as we do those things YOU mentioned.

The Drug War has been an ABSOLUTE Failure, and it IS UnConstitutional...

YOU cannot show me where the Constitution GIVES YOU any Right to restrict my Rights that have NO AFFECT on you.

Clearly the Drug Laws have ALREADY HAD a MUCH WORSE affect on our Society than the Restricted use would have ever.

EDIT: IT also attempts to "take Authority" for the Federal Government where no such Authority exists, thus allowing them to make Laws which further restrict our OTHER Constitutional Right's, which the Fed's were NEVER intended to HAVE.

Regards,
Gaar

Sorry, I have to disagree...

When you allow such things you are allowing things to become crimes which are not crimes.

It produces things like Drug Lords and Dealers in our Society, that then start doing things MUCH WORSE than if we dealt with them as we do those things YOU mentioned.

The Drug War has been an ABSOLUTE Failure, and it IS UnConstitutional...

YOU cannot show me where the Constitution GIVES YOU any Right to restrict my Rights that have NO AFFECT on you.

CLearly the Drug Laws have ALREADY HAD a MUCH WORSE affect on our Society than the Restricted use would have ever.

Regards,
Gaar

Agreed. Though I think that drugs shouldn't be illegal, since of course, it's your body, not the government's. You're not doing physical harm to others when you're shooting heroin.

i agree with all in orignal post, except the drug contorl thing...

the reason i dont is because if all drugs were legal then we would have another place for major coporations to move into.. this inturn will make marketing betting then the society would be fine with people "shooting herion" in public... and as with cigarates children "o ill try it once" then they are 40 and so out of it they dont even see the urine there sleeping in... now people say "oh but its their choice" no! its not! talk to a herion addict ask if he would stop.. 9 outa 10 would say yes. the other 1 would probly be saying "the bugs, their under my skin, get them off!"

It can be said that use of the sexual organs for something other than procreation is a perversion in the most literal sense of the term; that is, for something other than their intended purposes.Yeah, if you like (though 'intended' by whom? Nature has no intentions). But since you personally do so very, very many things which are a perversion of nature - as do we all - it's not really relevant to the discussion.

That being said, homosexual marriage cannot exist, simply because of what marriage is; a long-term partnership between a man and a woman whereby the sexual faculty leads to the procration of offspring which are then cared for over a decade-long process.1) You're begging the question. If we're trying to decide whether to extend the definition of marriage to encompass homosexuals, it's nonsensical to reject the proposal on the grounds that it contradicts the current definition. That definition is the entire point of the debate.

2) I'm married and intend to continue having: a) lots of sex; b) no children. You can personally define 'marriage' as anything you like, but reality disagrees with you.

Society can play with words all it wants, and legally define marriage as anything it wants, and encourage homosexual union through granting them the status of married people regarding taxes, insurance, inheritance, whatever; but it's still a legal fiction. It doesn't change the reality of marriage or the nature of the role the man-woman relationship has from simply the "human" perspective; this will continue unaltered no matter what changes around it as long as humans wish to keep on keepin' on.You're correct: it doesn't change the reality of heterosexual marriage. No reason to object to it, then. Right?

As an aside: heterosexual marriage as we currently know it does not imply breeding, and breeding does not imply heterosexual marriage. So the whole breeding thing is sort of beside the point, don't you think?

Now, don't claim I'm a gay-hater (I am not), and don't claim I am trying to discriminate.I wouldn't dream of claiming any such thing; I simply don't think that you've thought the issue through. For the record, do you believe that gay marriage should be legal?

You dont have to believe it. Its fact. Marriage was primaryly a religious institution before the government got involved. Therefore you are forcing a religious institution to accept something that is opposed to that religion.What, you mean like...oh, let's see...like Muslims are forced to accept that other people consume pork? Damn, let's ban pork!

Thats like forcing all Muslims to go eat pork during Ramadan in daylight.Yes, I for one insist that all Christians should be forced into homosexual marriage!

i agree with all in orignal post, except the drug contorl thing...

the reason i dont is because if all drugs were legal then we would have another place for major coporations to move into.. this inturn will make marketing betting then the society would be fine with people "shooting herion" in public... and as with cigarates children "o ill try it once" then they are 40 and so out of it they dont even see the urine there sleeping in... now people say "oh but its their choice" no! its not! talk to a herion addict ask if he would stop.. 9 outa 10 would say yes. the other 1 would probly be saying "the bugs, their under my skin, get them off!"

There are plenty of bad/harmful "places" for major corporations to move into. Currently people are "fine" with people smoking in public. But, as many noticed, laws are being enacted (in the US) because, it seems, people are "not fine" with second-hand smoke entering their lungs. You absolutely have a choice to do/try anything. If you have an addiction then there are ways to get help. Some people even suggest taxing the hell out of "recreational" drugs and using that money for rehabilitation.

I think I love myself as well, but I'm not too sure. I really don't "feel" anything.
Well, if you're loving yourself ... tickle around until you find the sweet spots! Then you'll feel something!
(Then of course, you might get hooked on yourself and tend to follow yourself around fora while, trying to leave yourself with emotional baggage and someone to sob to on a lonely night, and you may end up not working so hard on appearance and hygiene and then you might never be able to be very comfortable around yourself, possibly leading you to cheat on yourself for a while with someone else. Then you'll only have yourself to come home to, and you'll have to explain yourself, and since it's such a prickly [terrible pun] matter you might fudge the whole thing and lie a little and lose some respect for yourself ... sometimes it's better just to stay friends with yourself! Friends with benefits .... hrmmm ...)
Seriously though, interesting post.

One promblem for those opposing gay marriage on religious grounds is that there are already churches that are performing gay marriages and unions, including Methodist, Episcopal, Presbyterian, and United Church of Christ churches. While it is true that not all of those denominations are perfoming them as a matter of national policy, the number of local churches doing so is increasing. The UUA has been performing ceremonies it calls "services of union" for 20 years. The Lutherans are considering it.

CNN (http://www.cnn.com/US/9911/04/presby.gay.unions/)
Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2003/11/30/protestants_weigh_same_sex_marriage/)

I notice a lot of people for personal freedom put a stop on it when they personally disapprove. "Leave people alone except for ______ because I disaprove. I think it's immoral/wouldn't want my kids to do it/see it."

Well, if you're loving yourself ... tickle around until you find the sweet spots! Then you'll feel something!
(Then of course, you might get hooked on yourself and tend to follow yourself around fora while, trying to leave yourself with emotional baggage and someone to sob to on a lonely night, and you may end up not working so hard on appearance and hygiene and then you might never be able to be very comfortable around yourself, possibly leading you to cheat on yourself for a while with someone else. Then you'll only have yourself to come home to, and you'll have to explain yourself, and since it's such a prickly [terrible pun] matter you might fudge the whole thing and lie a little and lose some respect for yourself ... sometimes it's better just to stay friends with yourself! Friends with benefits .... hrmmm ...)
Seriously though, interesting post.

I seriously hope you know that I was kidding...

I seriously hope you know that I was kidding...
Hey, who am i to judge? It's all good as far as i'm concerned, ya know, as long as it's all consentual.
*nudge*