NationStates Jolt Archive

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+ March 16, 2003.

Peace activist Rachel Corrie was run over by a bulldozer in Rafah.

She was trying to prevent the destruction of a Palestinian home, a family she had been staying at, who had nothing to do with this struggle and whose only fault was the position of their house within a new security perimeter. If that is terrorism, then I want to be a terrorist.

If you want, take a moment today to remember, and to ponder that decision she made: To travel thousands of miles to a distant country, to risk her life for her dream of peace. We would to well not to forget - there are too few of these people, and if we do not watch out, we may kill the last of them and never know.

Please don't flame. If you have another view or opinion, post it rationally. Show appropriate respect for a dead woman, please.

I have imense respect for anyone willing to die for a cause, and much more for those who devote their life to their beliefs, as this woman did. thank you for this insight into a great person about whom i knew nothing before.

I have no respect for stupidity and even less respect for ill will. She had it coming. Oh, and she was a traitor. We are at war and she willingly took the side of our enemies. I despise such people. BTW she was from my state.

one of lifes saddest things is that in any war or conflict it is innocents that take the heaviest casualties, often the ones who cause it get off scot free when they are wholy at blame.

I have upmost respect to those who have had their lives taken from them, or who have been put in undesirable situations (torture etc) yet can manage to stay peaceful and firm in their beleifs the whole way.

I have no respect for stupidity and even less respect for ill will. She had it coming. Oh, and she was a traitor. We are at war and she willingly took the side of our enemies. I despise such people. BTW she was from my state.

You're at war with palestinian homes?

*snip*

Flamebait.

I am aware that there are different definitions of "rational" arguments. However, I have yet to see one this qualifies for. Ignore the troll.

You're at war with palestinian homes?

those homes are pretty evil, even in peaceful NZ i was walking past a house the other day that threw a roof tile at me, luckily it missed, but that couldve done some damage.

*hides in field well away from angry homes*

You're at war with palestinian homes?

He's at war with all the bad brown people. Anyone helping them is a traitor.

How on earth do you get run over by a bulldozer?
Did she get her inspiration from the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy?

If the driver knew she was in the path of the bulldozer, I hope he was convicted of murder.
But still I can't help but think she must have been seriously naive/stupid to think some stranger's house was worth risking her life for.

How on earth do you get run over by a bulldozer?
Did she get her inspiration from the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy?
.

The house was the home of a suicide bomber who had killed dozens of citizens in a heartless attack. As part of their attempt to discourage this behavior the Israeli army destroys the perpetrators homes regularly.

This activist was not a guest in the home, nor was it the first time she had been run over by a bulldozer. She in fact sought out the crews who were in charge of removing the perpetrators homes and attempted to intervene my placing herself before the bulldozer. She had even been run over once before.

This was an act of immense stupidity, as I mentioned in a related thread;
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=405322

The house was the home of a suicide bomber who had killed dozens of citizens in a heartless attack. As part of their attempt to discourage this behavior the Israeli army destroys the perpetrators homes regularly.

This activist was not a guest in the home, nor was it the first time she had been run over by a bulldozer. She in fact sought out the crews who were in charge of removing the perpetrators homes and attempted to intervene my placing herself before the bulldozer. She had even been run over once before.

This was an act of immense stupidity, as I mentioned in a related thread;
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=405322

There are two important things to remember about Rachel Corrie. The first is that she died protecting a house, not real people but a house. I think that one thing shows how morally confused some people in this country have become.

The second thing that is important to remember is that she sided with a group who that breeds some of the cruelest murderers of innocent people in the world. Rachel Corrie gave her life trying to protect people whose declared aim is to annihilate another country. In the name of saving children's lives, Rachel Corrie chose to defend a society that teaches its young children to blow themselves up and which deliberately targets children for death.

Last, and not quite as important is the fact that Rachel Corrie had to travel to a foreign country to shout anti-American obscenities while burning the American flag. That's pretty close to treason in my opinion.

So, while my condolences go out to her parents and friends, she doesn't deserve respect for what she did or how she died.

Bozzy, what happens to the 11th person in your sig?

The house was the home of a suicide bomber who had killed dozens of citizens in a heartless attack. As part of their attempt to discourage this behavior the Israeli army destroys the perpetrators homes regularly.

Proof of this statement ? It seems a bit odd to punish people if their only crime is that they live in a house that previously was owned by a criminal. Previously, since the guy is obviously dead if he was a suicide bomber.

Proof of this statement ? It seems a bit odd to punish people if their only crime is that they live in a house that previously was owned by a criminal. Previously, since the guy is obviously dead if he was a suicide bomber.
That's common knowledge to anyone who ever read a news article about Israel.

That's common knowledge to anyone who ever read a news article about Israel.

It is my experience that "being common knowledge" is not necessarily the same as "being true".

It is my experience that "being common knowledge" is not necessarily the same as "being true".
Then look it up. It shouldn't be too hard.

It wasn't the home of a suicide bomber -- the Israeli "justification" for the destruction was that it was one of several structures which had allegedly been used as cover by gunmen.

Well she sounds like a very silly girl rather than a martyr to me.
But still, whoever was driving that bulldozer was either a murderer or a state endorsed executioner and someone should have been held responsible for the death.

Then look it up. It shouldn't be too hard.

Give me a hint then. Where can I find the justification of punishing people who have not committed a crime themselves ?

Isn't that girl part of the family whom is sueing caterpillar claiming that sence they sold the Isreali army a few of thier bulldozers that they are somehow responcible for her death? :rolleyes:

I remember reading about this when it was current..

I don't want to mock the dead, but I clearly remember that this woman wasn't a rational person, politically or otherwise.

Isn't that girl part of the family whom is sueing caterpillar claiming that sence they sold the Isreali army a few of thier bulldozers that they are somehow responcible for her death? :rolleyes:

Yes. That her family are (IMO) being daft for trying to sue catapillar doesn't mean that her death was ok though.

Give me a hint then. Where can I find the justification of punishing people who have not committed a crime themselves ?
You're killing me. You didn't ask for justification, only for evidence that the practice existed. Try following the links in Bozzys post. One goes to another thread, then there is one to an article about a lawsuit. I assume that one mentions the practice. If that fails, try googling something like Israeli Palestinian relations. That was a joke, but it should give you a hint of what to do.

Yes. That her family are (IMO) being daft for trying to sue catapillar doesn't mean that her death was ok though.

Ok, I found the news link.

Newslink (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050315/ap_on_re_us/protester_killed_lawsuit_1)

Well, she is dead, time to make some money off of it.

You're killing me. You didn't ask for justification, only for evidence that the practice existed. Try following the links in Bozzys post. One goes to another thread, then there is one to an article about a lawsuit. I assume that one mentions the practice. If that fails, try googling something like Israeli Palestinian relations. That was a joke, but it should give you a hint of what to do.

Seeing as the building in question probably wasn't the home of a suicide bomber anyway, this is pretty irrelevant.

Seeing as the building in question probably wasn't the home of a suicide bomber anyway, this is pretty irrelevant.
I suppose the practice of destroying houses after a suicide bombing makes as much sense as paying off the surviors of the now-dead murderer, doesn't it?

I have no respect for stupidity and even less respect for ill will. She had it coming. Oh, and she was a traitor. We are at war and she willingly took the side of our enemies. I despise such people. BTW she was from my state.
She made the choice now she must live with it. :sniper:
My Nation would not take her back.

I suppose the practice of destroying houses after a suicide bombing makes as much sense as paying off the surviors of the now-dead murderer, doesn't it?

Huh? Did I say that?

Please reword and be more specific. I honestly have no idea what you're getting at.

You're killing me. You didn't ask for justification, only for evidence that the practice existed.

Which means the government must have a justification for it, right ?
The point is that that *I* am not the one that needs to look it up since I am not the one making the claim.

Ok, I found the news link.

Newslink (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050315/ap_on_re_us/protester_killed_lawsuit_1)

Well, she is dead, time to make some money off of it.

They didn't make a cent off that one, thank God.

Maybe they get a cut of the "Saint Pancake" t-shirt profits. That'd be a few bucks..

They didn't make a cent off that one, thank God.

Maybe they get a cut of the "Saint Pancake" t-shirt profits. That'd be a few bucks..

:D

Maybe they get a cut of the "Saint Pancake" t-shirt profits. That'd be a few bucks..

Even if you believe that that woman was a complete idiot (which you probably do), that's still a pretty sick joke.

There are two important things to remember about Rachel Corrie. The first is that she died protecting a house, not real people but a house. I think that one thing shows how morally confused some people in this country have become.

She died protecting the home of a family. If your house got destroyed, you'd realize how important those thingies are, especially in a country where you're not going to get a new one that easily.

The second thing that is important to remember is that she sided with a group who that breeds some of the cruelest murderers of innocent people in the world. Rachel Corrie gave her life trying to protect people whose declared aim is to annihilate another country. In the name of saving children's lives, Rachel Corrie chose to defend a society that teaches its young children to blow themselves up and which deliberately targets children for death.

I call strawman and racism. You are blaming a religion and a society for what extremists do. The equivalent of that would be comparing you to the KKK because you live in the US.

Huh? Did I say that?

Please reword and be more specific. I honestly have no idea what you're getting at.
Replied to the wrong message.

Alma Mater take note of this. I'm not going to argue about arguing. If you aren't familiar with a practice, or event and everyone else is, then you might be advised to learn more about it.


Which means the government must have a justification for it, right ?
The point is that that *I* am not the one that needs to look it up since I am not the one making the claim.





I suppose the practice of destroying houses after a suicide bombing makes as much sense as paying off the surviors of the now-dead murderer, doesn't it?



The Israeli government tries to discourage terrorist acts. In particular, they destroy houses where the suicide bombers used to live. Other Arab governments in the region will pay money to the surviors of the murderer in order to promote the practice.

Even if you believe that that woman was a complete idiot (which you probably do), that's still a pretty sick joke.

No, the sick joke is that they wrapped her body in the flag afterward.. I mean, they had to know better than that.

http://newjersey.indymedia.org/media/all/display/2089/index.php?limit_start=720

First of all, that anyone died is regrettable.

However, she made a conscious choice. She chose to deliberately place herself in front of a large piece of construction equipment in order to make her political statement that this was not correct.

I don't know how many of you have been near bulldozers; they are big. The scoop in front was probably as large as she was; it's very probably that the driver did not see her, or assumed that she would have had the intelligence to step out of the way.

She gave her life to make her point, which is a noble thing. But it was her choice, and suing Caterpillar for selling Israel their equipment is idiotic. Of course, the family will not get anything out of the Israeli government considering that she was probably breaking the law in trying to prevent the driver from doing his job; so of course, they think they can get money suing Caterpillar.

It makes as much sense as if I sued Honda because a drunk driver hit me.

No, the sick joke is that they wrapped her body in the flag afterward.. I mean, they had to know better than that.

If that's true, yes that's pretty bad as well. But what you said was still a sick joke, regardless.

Bozzy, what happens to the 11th person in your sig?

It is quite a clever little techie joke, basically 10 (read one zero, not ten) = 2 in the binary number system and since you asked the question, i take it you fall into the category of those that dont understand binary ;)

Alma Mater take note of this. I'm not going to argue about arguing. If you aren't familiar with a practice, or event and everyone else is, then you might be advised to learn more about it.

Just the background: Since I learned that there is no apple in the "Eve gave Adam an apple" story which everyone knows I have started to seriously doubt anything that is common knowledge. And can justify that with countless other examples (earth is flat, black people are not humans, so slavery is ok, women are inferior to men, all nazis were brutal monsters, Saddam had WoMD). However, I agree this is getting offtopic. So to return:

My original query for proof was actually for two claims:
a. That the house was once occupied by a suicide bomber
b. That the government has an official policy of destroying homes that once belonged to such people.

The Israeli government tries to discourage terrorist acts. In particular, they destroy houses where the suicide bombers used to live. Other Arab governments in the region will pay money to the surviors of the murderer in order to promote the practice.

Now this makes sense. Unless the new inhabitants of the house had nothing to do with the suidice bomber of course.

Now this makes sense. Unless the new inhabitants of the house had nothing to do with the suidice bomber of course.


Didn't you knew? In America, the houses of the relatives of the people that commit crimes are demolished! :p And who cares if those relatives are infants, elderly, or not! They must pay! Arrr arr!

Didn't you knew? In America, the houses of the relatives of the people that commit crimes are demolished! :p And who cares if those relatives are infants, elderly, or not! They must pay! Arrr arr!

The idea isn't about punishmnet, it is about deterance. Obviously, suicide bombers don't care about their own physical well beings. They probably do care about the well being of their families, however. Really, bulldozing houses is kind of tame. Raping, torturing, and killing grusomely on national TV, now that'll send a message.

You're at war with palestinian homes?

ROFLMAO :D

The idea isn't about punishmnet, it is about deterance. Obviously, suicide bombers don't care about their own physical well beings. They probably do care about the well being of their families, however. Really, bulldozing houses is kind of tame. Raping, torturing, and killing grusomely on national TV, now that'll send a message.
The Saudis have a remarkably low crime rate. They must be on to something effective.

What could it be?

Oh, I know! They have public beheadings, public amputations, etc...That kind of message is understood in that part of the world.

It is quite a clever little techie joke, basically 10 (read one zero, not ten) = 2 in the binary number system and since you asked the question, i take it you fall into the category of those that dont understand binary ;)
Not hardly. My question took used the fact that the 10b people is really 2d, but the counting doesn't stop at 10. You count 0,1,10,11 with two bits. Each of them has a meaning in the sig, except for 11b. What about the 11b case? How is it handled? It can't be ignored, or somewhere along the line, the state machine is going to get lost.

Boy, this is really geeky. Sorry.

The Saudis have a remarkably low crime rate. They must be on to something effective.

What could it be?

Oh, I know! They have public beheadings, public amputations, etc...That kind of message is understood in that part of the world.

We should have that in the US too. Now that would lower the crime rate. Who needs a free society anyway? Human rights are for wusses - hang all the nasty libs and teach them a lesson!

Deterrants aren't. They're despicable, collective punishments, and they do not belong into any civilized society.

Of course, the family will not get anything out of the Israeli government considering that she was probably breaking the law in trying to prevent the driver from doing his job; so of course, they think they can get money suing Caterpillar.
.
She should win against capitipiller. Selling bulldozers to Israel is like selling gasoline to arsonists. IF you know for a fact that you product is being used to commit war crimes and kill people you should pay for the damage that is caused.

She died trying to protect the homes of people who massacre innocent civilians. What a hero. Personally I'm glad she's dead and I encourage anyone who thinks as she does to sacrifice themselves as well.

Not hardly. My question took used the fact that the 10b people is really 2d, but the counting doesn't stop at 10. You count 0,1,10,11 with two bits. Each of them has a meaning in the sig, except for 11b. What about the 11b case? How is it handled? It can't be ignored, or somewhere along the line, the state machine is going to get lost.

Boy, this is really geeky. Sorry.

11's parents got divorced and each wanted sole custody. The judge took his cue form Solomon but for some reason both parents agreed. As a result, 11 was dotted to death.

These streets remind me of quicksand
When your on it you'll keep goin down
And there's noone to hold on too
And there's noone to pull you out
You keep on fallin
And no one can hear you callin
So you end up self destructing

Actually, I should put a note here. There were two topics made about her today, and only one of them concerned this lawsuit.

I believe the lawsuit is one by matter of principle alone. It will accomplish little (even if they get paid that negligible amount), and it will not bring her back. It will merely give those of us still mourning for her the feeling that a slight, tiny fleck of justice still exists in this world.

And the lawsuit was obviously started on this date at least partly to make it a current issue again, to ensure that her fate will be remembered today. It accomplished that, at least.

I do not support the lawsuit, as a matter of fact, nor oppose it. Nothing will be gained from it, except by the lawyers. But blaming this lawsuit on Rachel is a disgusting strawman. If people want to spit on Rachel, at least do so openly so that we may know you for the kind of men you are. Going postal on this silly lawsuit is really beyond the pale.

a brave person, when i visit the middle east i will try to help people, even if (i hope i wont) die.

I have no respect for stupidity and even less respect for ill will.
Likewise sunshine

She should win against capitipiller. Selling bulldozers to Israel is like selling gasoline to arsonists. IF you know for a fact that you product is being used to commit war crimes and kill people you should pay for the damage that is caused.

Can I sue Lockheed-Martin, Boeing, Thyssen-Krupp AG, and god knows how many others? Simple solutions are for the simplistic-lawsuits are not the answer in any event.

Just as i saw this nirvvanna's smells like teen spirit just came on..

Atleast she died quickly. Cute too.

The rest of those terrorists won't be so lucky. >: D

She died supporting a people who use terrorism as their primary method of warfare. She was killed by a bulldozer, a bulldozer! They are not exactly fast moving machines. In other words, she chose to stand in front of the thing and let herself be run over.
I feel nothing for her, stupidity shouldn't be honored. If she really believed in her cause then she should have lived to continue fighting for it. Dying for your cause almost always does little to help. Have the Palestinians acheived their goal of the destruction of Isreal? No. Do the vast majority of people even remember who she was? No.
She failed folks, failed. I only hope her side in this conflict breeds more such failures. Terrorists and the people who support them are contemptable.

She died supporting a people who use terrorism as their primary method of warfare. She was killed by a bulldozer, a bulldozer! They are not exactly fast moving machines. In other words, she chose to stand in front of the thing and let herself be run over.
I feel nothing for her, stupidity shouldn't be honored. If she really believed in her cause then she should have lived to continue fighting for it. Dying for your cause almost always does little to help. Have the Palestinians acheived their goal of the destruction of Isreal? No. Do the vast majority of people even remember who she was? No.
She failed folks, failed. I only hope her side in this conflict breeds more such failures. Terrorists and the people who support them are contemptable.

Stupidity and courage are very, very close. Usually it depends on your political views which one of them applies. One day, when you and the monsters you support have killed enough of her kind, you may understand the difference between pacifism and terrorism.

You are the terrorist.

But still, whoever was driving that bulldozer was either a murderer or a state endorsed executioner he was both...a Murderer Jew and a Israel endorsed executioner.

She made the choice now she must live with it.
.
THAT is funny! (I Added bold for emphasis)

Not hardly. My question took used the fact that the 10b people is really 2d, but the counting doesn't stop at 10. You count 0,1,10,11 with two bits. Each of them has a meaning in the sig, except for 11b. What about the 11b case? How is it handled? It can't be ignored, or somewhere along the line, the state machine is going to get lost.

Boy, this is really geeky. Sorry.

Instead of 11th correct binary grammar would have been 11rd, right? (snork snork snork - geek laugh)

She should win against capitipiller. Selling bulldozers to Israel is like selling gasoline to arsonists. IF you know for a fact that you product is being used to commit war crimes and kill people you should pay for the damage that is caused.
ROFLMAO!

Riiight, everyone knows selling gas is a crime too.

Instead of 11th correct binary grammar would have been 11rd, right? (snork snork snork - geek laugh)
We never did establish that these bits represented an unsigned integer. 10b could be -2d, right?

Is there a geek forum somewhere?

From a Satanic point of view, dying for any cause that doesn't benefit one's own self is one of the most dumbest things one can do. I'm glad she's dead, not because of her views, but from her own stupidity! Stupidity shouldn't be honored. It should be shunned upon.

Lets not forget, she was supporting terrorists and "Anyone who is a terrorist or supports terrorists will pay for their crimes".

Posted by the Satanic Priest, Lord Medivh

She was not supporting 'terrorists'. She was supporting a people who have, quite literally, been screwed over by the collective world, and been run over roughshod by the Israeli and the US government for well over the last few decades. If you were suffering the kind of discrimination that is going on in Palestine, you would understand why some people get so desperate and crazy that they want to kill themselves and as many people around them as they can. Terrorists are a symptom. A result. Not a cause.

We still won't take their crap. Aw, life was mean to you? Stand up and try not to kill anybody for five minutes. Work with hand you're dealt. We'll leave you alone.

Ouch. Bulldozer.

Anyway, she shouldn't be there. It's more of a no-brainer anyway. Might as well protest in Iraq, and if you do get kidnapped by Iraqi's or prosecuted by American soldiers, it's more or less your own fault for being there.

You know it's a hotzone. Anything could happen there. Not flamebait or anything, but her death was in vain.

Anyway, Palestine and Isreal conflict can only be resolved by it's top political leaders, like now Abbas is starting a new relations with Isreal. And I do hope for the best it ends up well.

You can stage any protest as much as you want in foreign lands, but honestly certain conflicts you can't do a single thing about without the leaders themselves willing to commit to peace.

She was not supporting 'terrorists'. She was supporting a people who have, quite literally, been screwed over by the collective world, and been run over roughshod by the Israeli and the US government for well over the last few decades. If you were suffering the kind of discrimination that is going on in Palestine, you would understand why some people get so desperate and crazy that they want to kill themselves and as many people around them as they can. Terrorists are a symptom. A result. Not a cause.

Yes she was supporting terrorism. She was blocking a house that a Homicide bomber once lived in and the people who live there did nothing to stop him from doing it.

Palestine suffering discrimination, ha. The Jewish people of Israeli get just as much discrimination from Palestine.

As I said earlier, a Satanist will not die for any cause that doesn't benefit one's own self. If you kill yourself, you personally can't benefit from it.

She needed to die, because she was stupid enough to get run over by a bulldozer. The less idoits on this planet, the better.

Terrorism is a cause. Not a symptom.

Posted by the Satanic Priest, Lord Medivh

Terrorism is a cause. Not a symptom.

So people become terrorists for no reason now? That's a new one.


She was blocking a house that a Homicide bomber once lived in and the people who live there did nothing to stop him from doing it.

It wasn't a Homicide bomber, it was a suicide bomber, meaning that the bomber was no longer alive. Therefore they bulldozed the house of an innocent family.
And who's to say that the people who lived there could have even tried. Do we even know if they were around?

Basically, Israel has no reason to bulldoze the houses of suicide bombers. It will not help them defend their territory, if anything it will spark aggression.

It was neither a homicide bomber nor a suicide bomber nor any other kind of bomber - the man who owned the house was alive and well. The official excuse for bulldozing this house was that some houses in the neighbourhood were suspected to have underground tunnels. Thus, the whole neighbourhood was flattened.

The way people keep switching between "OMFG SUICIDE BOMBER11" and "HEY WATCH OUT SEKKRIT TUNNEL!!" reminds me oddly of Bush's tactic in justifying the Iraq war. "He had WMD" "No he didn't." "Well he was still evil."

In fact, this one was bulldozed a year later (now a year ago), and, as I understand it, found not to contain any tunnel, terrorist or otherwise, whatsoever. Ergo, of course, the house must have belonged to a suicide bomber, or there would have been no reason to destroy it.

It was neither a homicide bomber nor a suicide bomber nor any other kind of bomber - the man who owned the house was alive and well. The official excuse for bulldozing this house was that some houses in the neighbourhood were suspected to have underground tunnels. Thus, the whole neighbourhood was flattened.

The way people keep switching between "OMFG SUICIDE BOMBER11" and "HEY WATCH OUT SEKKRIT TUNNEL!!" reminds me oddly of Bush's tactic in justifying the Iraq war. "He had WMD" "No he didn't." "Well he was still evil."

In fact, this one was bulldozed a year later (now a year ago), and, as I understand it, found not to contain any tunnel, terrorist or otherwise, whatsoever. Ergo, of course, the house must have belonged to a suicide bomber, or there would have been no reason to destroy it.
So what should happen in Israel? The Israelis should acquiesce to every demand that the Palestinians make, then things will be fine, right? The GOI did that during talks that Clinton set up. Guess what? The Palestinians still refused to make a treaty.

Maybe the Israelis should just pack up and go home? We know how well they were treated in Germany, Russia, Romania...That treatment makes the way Palestinians are dealt with by the GOI look like Sunday school. In fact, Europe today has rampant anti-semitism. I'm sure Israelis would be much better off there.

Again, what should happen?

Well, first of all, a peaceful coexistence should not be ruled out from the start. There are extremists among the Palestinians, who would like to see all Israelis killed or expelled. There are the same extremists among the Israelis, who want to kill all Palestinians. There are also moderates.

In order to promote a balance, neither of the extremists must make the decision.

And one must not imbalance the struggle. If the US had ceased giving kick-ass weapons and money to Israel, we'd have had a natural solution years ago: Without military superiority, both Israel AND Palestine will be more ready for peace. The Palestinians will harbor less resentment (and will stop perceiving themselves as "victims", with which they justify their terrorist attacks), and the Israelis less arrogance, bringing them closer to the negotiation table (when you don't have the alternative of just "nuking the bastards", you'll be a little more cooperative in peace negotiations).

http://images.polarisboard.org/arancaytar/politic/image02.png
+ March 16, 2003.

Peace activist Rachel Corrie was run over by a bulldozer in Rafah.

She was trying to prevent the destruction of a Palestinian home, a family she had been staying at, who had nothing to do with this struggle and whose only fault was the position of their house within a new security perimeter. If that is terrorism, then I want to be a terrorist.

If you want, take a moment today to remember, and to ponder that decision she made: To travel thousands of miles to a distant country, to risk her life for her dream of peace. We would to well not to forget - there are too few of these people, and if we do not watch out, we may kill the last of them and never know.

Please don't flame. If you have another view or opinion, post it rationally. Show appropriate respect for a dead woman, please.


It is a sad day when the United States can have a peace activist run over by a bulldozer and murdered by a chronic civil rights violator and demand neither justice nor an appology nor subject the wrongdoer to any repercussions.

Well, first of all, a peaceful coexistence should not be ruled out from the start. There are extremists among the Palestinians, who would like to see all Israelis killed or expelled. There are the same extremists among the Israelis, who want to kill all Palestinians. There are also moderates.

In order to promote a balance, neither of the extremists must make the decision.

And one must not imbalance the struggle. If the US had ceased giving kick-ass weapons and money to Israel, we'd have had a natural solution years ago: Without military superiority, both Israel AND Palestine will be more ready for peace. The Palestinians will harbor less resentment (and will stop perceiving themselves as "victims", with which they justify their terrorist attacks), and the Israelis less arrogance, bringing them closer to the negotiation table (when you don't have the alternative of just "nuking the bastards", you'll be a little more cooperative in peace negotiations).
Without military superiority, Israel would have ceased to exist many years ago. Since 1948, the goal of every Arab state in the region has been to eliminate Israel. Good intentions and military parity don't preserve a nation.

Israel has tried to accomodate Arabs and the Arabs that are willing to be law-abiding citizens have done pretty well. When I was working in Israel this last year, I visited several Arab settlements and they were doing pretty well for themselves. Not like the professional victims that live in the West Bank and Gaza.


Those followers of the not-late-enough Yassir Arafat deserve just about whatever happens to them. They have been given the chance to live peacefully with the Israelis, but they turned it down. They only seem to want the elimination of Israel and that's not going to happen. Now that the Nobel Laureate is dead, maybe some real progress toward peace can be made.

Without military superiority, Israel would have ceased to exist many years ago. Since 1948, the goal of every Arab state in the region has been to eliminate Israel. Good intentions and military parity don't preserve a nation.

Israel has tried to accomodate Arabs and the Arabs that are willing to be law-abiding citizens have done pretty well. When I was working in Israel this last year, I visited several Arab settlements and they were doing pretty well for themselves. Not like the professional victims that live in the West Bank and Gaza.


Those followers of the not-late-enough Yassir Arafat deserve just about whatever happens to them. They have been given the chance to live peacefully with the Israelis, but they turned it down. They only seem to want the elimination of Israel and that's not going to happen. Now that the Nobel Laureate is dead, maybe some real progress toward peace can be made.

"As long as they'll be good blacks and browns, they won't be harmed in any way. No, they just have to be quiet and don't make a noise, and say "Yes massa" when one a superior race/religion passes by." :headbang:

Sorry for putting up what looks like a strawman/slippery slope, but I honestly don't see your point. Resentment is the result of apartheid, seclusion and suppression. Ultimately, you won't be able to sustain a peace that works only because one of the sides is beefed up to the point of unilateral dominance. In fact, what kind of peace is being sustained now? There are suicide bombings every other week. All those people, young men, young women even, they don't blow themselves up because they're "Evil". Their resentment is born of despair, of a knowledge that whatever they do, they won't be able to live in freedom or sovereignty. It is out of this despair that they try to kill as many as possible by their own death.

Sorry for putting up what looks like a strawman/slippery slope, but I honestly don't see your point. Resentment is the result of apartheid, seclusion and suppression. Ultimately, you won't be able to sustain a peace that works only because one of the sides is beefed up to the point of unilateral dominance. In fact, what kind of peace is being sustained now?

Isn't Isreal a multiracial country? It's not only the Jews living there you know.


There are suicide bombings every other week. All those people, young men, young women even, they don't blow themselves up because they're "Evil". Their resentment is born of despair, of a knowledge that whatever they do, they won't be able to live in freedom or sovereignty. It is out of this despair that they try to kill as many as possible by their own death.

They don't simply kill themselves because they can. Who gave them the bombs in the first place? Bombs aren't easy to make. The family of the suicide bombers would be paid quite handsomely by the Hamas or other terrorist organization.

http://www.protestwarrior.org/new_signs.php?sign=22

Her death achieved little, except to provide her family with an excuse to try and sue Caterpillar. This is why a lot of college students shouldn't be allowed off campus - they don't understand reality, and they sympathise with the side who do a better 'kicked puppy' face, no matter how despotic and terrorist they may be.

"As long as they'll be good blacks and browns, they won't be harmed in any way. No, they just have to be quiet and don't make a noise, and say "Yes massa" when one a superior race/religion passes by." :headbang:

Sorry for putting up what looks like a strawman/slippery slope, but I honestly don't see your point. Resentment is the result of apartheid, seclusion and suppression. Ultimately, you won't be able to sustain a peace that works only because one of the sides is beefed up to the point of unilateral dominance. In fact, what kind of peace is being sustained now? There are suicide bombings every other week. All those people, young men, young women even, they don't blow themselves up because they're "Evil". Their resentment is born of despair, of a knowledge that whatever they do, they won't be able to live in freedom or sovereignty. It is out of this despair that they try to kill as many as possible by their own death.

I don't see where the Skinheads, Nazis or KKK have experienced much 'apartheid, seclusion and suppression' yet they seem to share the same view of Jews (and most other minorities) as the Palestinians. There has not been but one suicide bombing now in over a month, and for the first time in years the Palestinian forces actually sought out and made arrests in the case. THIS is what the Israelis have wanted from them - simple law enforcement. Obviously the bombers do not work alone. They are actively recruited by people who are evil and bigots. They are not any different than those who recruit in cults elsewhere, except that they have an active accompolice in their government and church. These people care not for the lives or Israelis or of Palestinians. They care only about their own hatred. They are the impediments to peace.
It is not the Jewish schools that theach their children that another race is evil and must be driven into the ocean... it is the Palestinian schools where that is commonplace. The Jews have repeaded many times over again that if the Palestinian govt would enforce law in their territory they would leave. It has been their abject failure to do so that forced the Israelis to take reluctant action. The former Palestinian dictator allowed these terrorist groups to become too powerful - they are like a far more entrenched version of the mafia. Eliminating them will be extraordinary difficult - but they are starting to move in the right direction.

"As long as they'll be good blacks and browns, they won't be harmed in any way. No, they just have to be quiet and don't make a noise, and say "Yes massa" when one a superior race/religion passes by." :headbang:

Sorry for putting up what looks like a strawman/slippery slope, but I honestly don't see your point. Resentment is the result of apartheid, seclusion and suppression. Ultimately, you won't be able to sustain a peace that works only because one of the sides is beefed up to the point of unilateral dominance. In fact, what kind of peace is being sustained now? There are suicide bombings every other week. All those people, young men, young women even, they don't blow themselves up because they're "Evil". Their resentment is born of despair, of a knowledge that whatever they do, they won't be able to live in freedom or sovereignty. It is out of this despair that they try to kill as many as possible by their own death.
Okay. Let me see if I can tie this together in a few minutes before I go to work.

Look up the history of Israel. It was established in a partitioning scheme in ~1948. Since that day, the country has been under attack by every Arab nation in the region. Because of the overwhelming military superiority they possess, they have been able to beat back attacks by the Russian-supplied Arabs. Parity would have probably led to the 'End of Days', as it would have been easy to draw in the weapons supplying allies to direct combat. That's another matter.

Military superiority prevented the Nation of Israel from being obilterated. The only difference between what the Egyptians and Syrians tried to do to Israel and what the Palestinian terrorists are trying to do is who the targets are. Nations were willing to engage in military attacks on military targets. The terrorists are killing anyone they can. The more defenseless the target, the better.

Now, the terrrorists have been offered countless accords and agreements over the years. They turned them all down. Late in the Clinton administration or early in the Bush administration, they were offered an agreement that contained every concession they wanted from the Israelis. They asked for the agreement, then when it was offered, they turned it down. There are two kinds of Arabs in that region. The ones that just want to exist peacefully and be successful and the ones that just hate every thing and every one. The latter follow the Nobel Laureate, Yassar Arrafat.

Now that he is dead, thank the Lord, maybe some real progress can be made toward peace. He is certainly responsible for more deaths of innocents that we could ever count.

And this is why I feel absolutely no sympathy for Rachel Corrie. She died in a misguided effort to protect a bunch of goons. If the goons didn't live in the house she died in front of, then people that knew and supported them did. This tactic of destroying houses is pretty bizarre in the context of Europe or America. On the hand, when you have to consider which bus to get on for fear of being blown up, or when you have to think about who is coming into the pizzeria because they may kill you, the tactic becomes a little more sensible.

Now I've got to go to work so I can pay to keep someone on the dole.

Okay. Let me see if I can tie this together in a few minutes before I go to work.

Look up the history of Israel. It was established in a partitioning scheme in ~1948. Since that day, the country has been under attack by every Arab nation in the region. Because of the overwhelming military superiority they possess, they have been able to beat back attacks by the Russian-supplied Arabs. Parity would have probably led to the 'End of Days', as it would have been easy to draw in the weapons supplying allies to direct combat. That's another matter.

Military superiority prevented the Nation of Israel from being obilterated. The only difference between what the Egyptians and Syrians tried to do to Israel and what the Palestinian terrorists are trying to do is who the targets are. Nations were willing to engage in military attacks on military targets. The terrorists are killing anyone they can. The more defenseless the target, the better.

Now, the terrrorists have been offered countless accords and agreements over the years. They turned them all down. Late in the Clinton administration or early in the Bush administration, they were offered an agreement that contained every concession they wanted from the Israelis. They asked for the agreement, then when it was offered, they turned it down. There are two kinds of Arabs in that region. The ones that just want to exist peacefully and be successful and the ones that just hate every thing and every one. The latter follow the Nobel Laureate, Yassar Arrafat.

Now that he is dead, thank the Lord, maybe some real progress can be made toward peace. He is certainly responsible for more deaths of innocents that we could ever count.

And this is why I feel absolutely no sympathy for Rachel Corrie. She died in a misguided effort to protect a bunch of goons. If the goons didn't live in the house she died in front of, then people that knew and supported them did. This tactic of destroying houses is pretty bizarre in the context of Europe or America. On the hand, when you have to consider which bus to get on for fear of being blown up, or when you have to think about who is coming into the pizzeria because they may kill you, the tactic becomes a little more sensible.

Now I've got to go to work so I can pay to keep someone on the dole.

I honestly don't even want to know what kind of Lord you are thanking for someone's death. But that is another matter.

And I should probably stay clear from these forums anyway, being that they only get me all riled up and distract me from my work too. I wonder if we would have a lot less political squabbling with a 12 hour, 7 day work week.

Not hardly. My question took used the fact that the 10b people is really 2d, but the counting doesn't stop at 10. You count 0,1,10,11 with two bits. Each of them has a meaning in the sig, except for 11b. What about the 11b case? How is it handled? It can't be ignored, or somewhere along the line, the state machine is going to get lost.

Boy, this is really geeky. Sorry.

You are correct, there are 11 kinds of people in the world; Those that know binary, those that do not and those that argue about it.

The Saudis have a remarkably low crime rate. They must be on to something effective.

What could it be?

Oh, I know! They have public beheadings, public amputations, etc...That kind of message is understood in that part of the world.
When someone commits a crime, who get's the beheadings and amputations? The criminal or the the criminal's family?

Yes she was supporting terrorism. She was blocking a house that a Homicide bomber once lived in and the people who live there did nothing to stop him from doing it.Where has all this support for collective punishment come from? And please stop with this "homicide bomber" nonsense." The proper term is "suicide bomber." Anyone who uses bombs to kill people could redundantly be called a homicide bomber, but only those who kill themselves are suicide bombers. You see, it's a descriptive term. "Homicide bomber" is significantly less descriptive and occaisionally inaccurate. Sometimes they fail to kill anyone besides themselves.

When someone commits a crime, who gets the beheadings and amputations? The criminal or the the criminal's family?

If anyone at all, it should be the criminal.

Unless of course he's dead, in which BLOODY VENGEANCE must be exacted on all those he knew in life, and then we dance on his corpse and tear his house down and tear his corpse apart and dance on it again and laugh and kill his family and his friends and their families and their families' friends' families and...

Sorry, my sarcasm node got a little carried away there.

On another note, I find the comment that "that kind of language [violence] is what is understood by them" more than a tad racist. I missed it the first time, but now you quoted it I just had to respond to that.

Well, first of all, a peaceful coexistence should not be ruled out from the start. There are extremists among the Palestinians, who would like to see all Israelis killed or expelled. There are the same extremists among the Israelis, who want to kill all Palestinians. There are also moderates.

In order to promote a balance, neither of the extremists must make the decision.

And one must not imbalance the struggle. If the US had ceased giving kick-ass weapons and money to Israel, we'd have had a natural solution years ago: Without military superiority, both Israel AND Palestine will be more ready for peace. The Palestinians will harbor less resentment (and will stop perceiving themselves as "victims", with which they justify their terrorist attacks), and the Israelis less arrogance, bringing them closer to the negotiation table (when you don't have the alternative of just "nuking the bastards", you'll be a little more cooperative in peace negotiations).
I totally agree. I do not support foreign aid to any nation precisely because this sort of thing is the result. It's not as if palestinians and Israeli jews are born hating each other.

If anyone at all, it should be the criminal.

Unless of course he's dead, in which BLOODY VENGEANCE must be exacted on all those he knew in life, and then we dance on his corpse and tear his house down and tear his corpse apart and dance on it again and laugh and kill his family and his friends and their families and their families' friends' families and...

Sorry, my sarcasm node got a little carried away there.

On another note, I find the comment that "that kind of language [violence] is what is understood by them" more than a tad racist. I missed it the first time, but now you quoted it I just had to respond to that.

Or we could just ask the Palestinian Government to investigate the accompolices in the crime, track them down, arrest and prosecute them and dissolve any associations associated with perpetrating that sort of crime.

oh, whoops, my sarcasm node is stuck also.