NationStates Jolt Archive

What lies behind these millennia of hatred? Why has the undercurrent of anti-Semitism bubbled and boiled and exploded against Jews everywhere, time and again throughout history?

Muslims, because Mohammed tried to get the Jews to convert to Islam, and when they refused, he swore to kill them.
Christians, they seem to think the Jews were responsible for killing Jesus.

Because if you call yourself God's chosen ones, what can you expect? People don't take too kindly to not just their religion being rubbished, but also their position on earth as inferior to others.

Ture, but with out some of the monotheistic veiws of the jews, jesus wouldn't have been preaching the words of a God, or Muhammad about Allah

Because if you call yourself God's chosen ones, what can you expect? People don't take too kindly to not just their religion being rubbished, but also their position on earth as inferior to others.
Christianity accepts that the Jews are G-Ds chosen people, so that isn't it.

Muslims, because Mohammed tried to get the Jews to convert to Islam, and when they refused, he swore to kill them.
Christians, they seem to think the Jews were responsible for killing Jesus.

Regarding Moslems: Did they treat the Jews any worse thean they treated the Christians in the conquered areas - I mean before modern times?

Its something i dont understand,they say that Christians hate Jews for killing Jesus...but if he hadnt died we wudnt recieve forgiveness for sins....i think its cos they are a minority and people like to blame things on people who cant defend themselves ( i mean look at the persecution of Gypsies in central Europe)

At least of all the despicable religions, judaism allows womyn the right to have pleasure. Shi can divorce her husband if he does not please her.

Regarding Moslems: Did they treat the Jews any worse thean they treated the Christians in the conquered areas - I mean before modern times?
No, they treated them exactly the same. Same methods of execution, same slaughtering of whole tribes, except some Christians converted. :rolleyes:

If you are talking about history (WWII and before), then that is mainly because of political maneuvering. A close-knit society is easily made into a society of scape-goats, especially when it is a society outsiders understand little about. Politicians, especially dictators, always need scape-goats for their crimes. (Refer also to Nero and Christians).



In the present however, the term "antisemitism" is abused horrendously. You want to know what "antisemitism" is? Look at defaced graveyards, read some extremist internet sites (especially the "jokes" sections *shudder*), or look at a rally of the NPD in East Germany. That is hatred.
Calling Sharon a ruthless criminal has nothing to do with antisemitism.

The problem is mainly one of generalization and polarization. "Criticism" (and well-deserved criticism it is, too, in the light of the fate of people like Rachel Corrie (http://www.rachelcorrie.org) - incidentally two years ago tomorrow) against the nation of Israel, and its political policies, is equated with "raving mad hatred" against the religion of Judaism.

You do realize you can call for a stop of the murder of Palestinian civilians WITHOUT wishing for a second holocaust, right?

Actually, you'll find it was the Christians and Jews that wanted to wipe out the Muslims. You'll also further find that in Muhammed's day, there weren't enough Muslims to build any sort of army that would be worth much of anything in the face of the Vatican.

Muhammed would not have vowed to kill the Christians or Jews for not converting because that would be a direct violation of Qur'an.

As for the topic at hand, I will answer it thusly:

When you're the first to give the world "Thou shalt not", you tend to be spit on. Hitler's Holocaust was not the first of its kind nor, I am sad to say, will it probably be the last.

At least of all the despicable religions, judaism allows womyn the right to have pleasure. Shi can divorce her husband if he does not please her.

So does Islam.

The Roman Empire and the spread of Christianity.

So does Islam.

When is that?

When is that?

When is what?

When is what?

When can shi get a divorce?

Its something i dont understand,they say that Christians hate Jews for killing Jesus...but if he hadnt died we wudnt recieve forgiveness for sins....i think its cos they are a minority and people like to blame things on people who cant defend themselves ( i mean look at the persecution of Gypsies in central Europe)

I don't know any Christians who hate Jews... but I do know a lot of Christians who ARE Jews...

When can shi get a divorce?

Whenever shi wants to.

Whenever shi wants to.

Is that backed by the Qu'ran, or is that just the modern interpretation of it?

When is that?

In Islam, a woman has the right to sexual pleasure, if I recall correctly..

And I agree with Aeruillin.

Is that backed by the Qu'ran, or is that just the modern interpretation of it?

It's backed by Qur'an.

Is that backed by the Qu'ran, or is that just the modern interpretation of it?

Yeah it is backed by the Shari'a. Any spouse can get an immediate divorce by saying "I divorce you, [insert name here]" to his spouse three times..

And we're drifting away from the topic, guys..

Why hate them?

Probably because they don't assimilate well into the society.

Or most of them are very rich? People are jealous (though it is generalising, but Jews on the average are richer than others I would think).

Or probably they've been perhaps one of the longest surviving cultures around. That the hatred has gone on for so many generations?

I know muslims currently hate Jews over the palestinian conflict though. As to why.. it still befuddles me. Can you imagine... People few thousands of miles away in Indonesia and Malaysia seem to have an illogical hatred for the jews because they they oppress Palestine. Not 'Isreal' but 'Jews'.

Like always, ignorance plays a huge role in anti-semitism or any racial hatred for that matter..

What lies behind these millennia of hatred? Why has the undercurrent of anti-Semitism bubbled and boiled and exploded against Jews everywhere, time and again throughout history?
Yet another thread about the worshippers of the wrong Yah?

What lies behind these millennia of hatred? Why has the undercurrent of anti-Semitism bubbled and boiled and exploded against Jews everywhere, time and again throughout history?

because it is often easier to promote cohesion by defining an enemy - we all stick together because we aren't *them*.

Like neocons and commie muslim terrorists. The jews have been an easy target in europe for a thousand years.

I know muslims currently hate Jews over the palestinian conflict though.

No we don't.

You all are complaining about being punished, but in the Bible it says we should rejoice when we face trials, because it will make us worthy to go to Heaven. Now I'm not saying that towards the Why the Jews guy, but towards the people who bring up Christianity.

I don't hate jews. I think its just something that they were taught by their parents. At least thats how it is in the South.

Let's put it simply: there are people who hate, and people who don't - there's no obvious geographical or cultural X-factor.
For instance, todat in Israel, a new (and yet another) museum opened to commemorate the Holocaust (note that I spell it with a capital letter). Yet, over the past 50 years, "the Isrealites" killed several thousand Palestinians and other Islamics because the God of the Jews once proclaimed the land these people inhabited "by accident" as belonging to the Jews. A promised land, which the post-WWII European nations (filled with guilt, obviously) eagerly took from the Palestinians to give to the Jews. I wonder if there will ever be a museum to commemorate THAT holocaust (which I spell with a non-capital letter, as not to offend the Jews, who seem to often believe they are the only ones to have suffered in the course of history). It is terrible to be victim of hate, but it is even more terrible to further inflict similar hate on others. Sadly, the people who hate inflict the most hate on people who don't seem to hate, as they are the easiest victims. In most conflicts, there is no good or bad - only bad and worse, and even then they often alternate sides.
If you ask me, religion, though a solace for some people, will always be a justification of hate and violence for many, many more. People who hate might always hate, under any circumstance, but they do seem to do it with more fervor and zealocy when "fired up" by religion.
That being said, I think it best if more people were to read the words of the wise of old - the Buddha being one of the most prominent, but our very own European Ancients will do just as well - and stop zealously trusting in the polemic discourse of "the desert radicals" - Christians, Jews, Islamics. People will NEVER be the same - that is, in fact, our evolutionary strength - so why should we be forced to be? We all have our own strengths and weaknesses. A little more respect for different mindstates is in order (for ALL mindstates, not just the ones that claim to be "opressed").

No we don't.

Your a Muslim Jew.. hahah.

But honestly, It's all to do with ignorance I guess. You are SO different from nearly any muslim I know.

Because during the ancient times, jews opposed authoritarian governments, which rightly pissed off authoritarian nations, which was essentially everyone. The echoes of that malice are what caused later events.

1. It is "she" not "shi"!

2. Because we're so 1337, and we control the media...then again if we control the media why do we do it so it so anti-semitic, or just against us in general....

3. It is so 1337 to have a Muslim to dispel common myths on Islam..i feel so enlightened...it's like i've reached Valhalla or something.

From my experience Christians really don't have anything against Jews.

The fact that they killed Jesus was prophesied long before it happened and the way it played out literally gave birth to Christianity. In addition to that, most of the earliest Christians where converted Jews.

As for the Moslems, well, they have been bickering for centuries. Originally it had more to do with land and politics then religion believe it or not. At this point I honestly don't think any of them actually remember what they are fighting about and instead just latch onto some leader spouting anti-something propaganda, and promising them a better life but instead making a living hell out of the region.

As for Hitler, his hatred was two fold.

The Universities in Germany where continually spouting Socialism, Secular Humanism, Darwinism, and many other "isms" at the time (imagine going to college and having Karl Marx as your Professor and you get the idea.) Hitler was a product of such a education. Hitler was at heart, a socialism, he hated the Jews because they where visibly more successful then basically everyone else under Germany's failing economy and his promise to the German people to punish them was essentially a radical extension of our politicians promising to tax the "upper class." The second part of his hatred, the one mainly responsible for his fanatical racism, was Darwinism. He genuinely believed that the Jews (and gays, retards, gypsies, etc, etc) where genetically inferior to the Aryans and as such should be removed from the gene pool as to not taint the bloodline. This practice of applied Darwinism is known as Eugenics and to the best of my knowledge he was the only man to ever actually go through with it. By the tenets of Secular Humanism, man's reason is paramount and the only valid source of morality, by Hitler's "reasoning" he genuinely believed he was helping humanity (at least the Aryan part of it) by doing what he did. I suppose he is the poster child for the old proverb "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

I was married to a Jew ( whose mother threatened to throw herself off the roof when we got married because I'm a "Gentile" )
Jews refer to anyone who isn't Jewish as a Gentile - that's racist - it's very " Us and Them "
Jews are a very tight knit group who do not assimilate well into society - they find support within their own communities ( hence the impression that they tend to be rich - it's more like they all support each other ) . I find this to be an admirable quality - however, many people dislike it.
Jews claim to be God's chosen people. That has never sat well with me - and I think it's why MANY people don't like them. There is a lot of pressure for Jewish men to marry only Jewish women - because a child is not considered to be truly Jewish unless his or her mother is a Jew.
It's ridiculous when anti-semetics claim they hate Jews because Jews killed Jesus. - Jesus was a Jew -not a Christian there were no "Christians" at the time of Christ - he was considered to be a great prophet - and to many - the earthly embodiment of the spirit of God. The Romans crucified Jesus - end of story. People who try to use the " Jews killed Jesus" arguments are just ignorant and looking for someone to persecute to disguise their own low self- esteem.
Jews refuse to bend and change to political and societal pressures - they have retained their faith and customs for thousands of years and continue to do so today - their would-be opressors hate this - and therefore- resolve even more to "break the Jews " - Hence the holocaust.
The Holocaust was unspeakably horrible - (let's not forget the millions of Gypsies, Poles , dissenters and other " gentiles" who were also slaughtered ).
We have Holocausts and "ethnic cleansing "going on still today. the Sudan - Kosovo -Sierra Leonne- Uganda ( among others ) . But people only seem to talk about the Jews with sympathy - this causes MUCH tension .
The poliics of Isreal - especially under Ariel Sharon - have put the Jews more than ever in the spotlight - making them an easy target for anti-semitism.
I am pro-Jew. I am Anti- Isreal.
Some people just can't seem to separate the people from the politics. - a problem we are having in America right now.

Anti-semitism isn't only Anti-Jew!

It's anti-Arab as well. So if Arabs are anti-semite, they hate themselves O_o

Anti-semitism isn't only Anti-Jew!

It's anti-Arab as well. So if Arabs are anti-semite, they hate themselves O_o

It applies to the Middle East in general i believe...

But now Anti-Semite means you hate jews only.
To hate Arabs...you have to be an Anti-Arabite? i dunno...

One thing - just a detail really.
It's not "darwinism", but actually "spencerism". It was Spencer who forwarded the notion of "survival of the fittest". Darwin would probably adher to the more nuanced "survival of the best adapted". It is because Spencer's extremist thought became known as "darwinism" (and it's more evil little brother "social darwinism", the founding of the bluest of blue economic liberal thoughts), that many people regard Darwin as being, well, stupid, ignorant and plain evil. He was, in fact, none of that. He was quite aware of his own weaknesses - he spent a good part of his life being ill, in fact. But he did recognize the fact that given certain circumstances (emphasise this part) certain species will do better than others, because their strengths come out better than their weaknesses in these particular circumstances.
For instance, Darwin never said that nature makes mistakes - but people who thought they understood his teachings did. And from this follows, that they appropriated to themselves the right to judge others as inferior (as "mistakes"). In essence (and in Darwin's thought), nothing is inferior. It are only the circumstances that focus on certain weaknesses of one, and strengths of other. Those circumstances are better known as "the course of history". But we do not have to sit idly by; Sun Tzu wrote over 25 centuries ago that "small people may be weak, but big and strong people are often slow". Learn your own strengths and weaknesses, and change the circumstances accordingly. If you can't, then learn to rely on others to complement you. There's a reason why people are different. If not, then the slightest natural imbalance would kill us all (from Darwin's evolutionary point of view).

Christianity accepts that the Jews are G-Ds chosen people, so that isn't it.

Christianity accepts them, Christians get resentful. Plus they made/make an easy scapegoat. In the Middle Ages most bankers were Jews, since Christian law says usury is a sin, so some of the resentment probably comes from that. Also their tendency, or more accurately, the tendency of rulers to put them into ghettos makes it easier for demagouges to whip up hatred against them. Race riots tend to fall apart if you have search house-to-house asking "are you a Jew?" and maybe getting 1 in 10.

It could be because of how, time and time again throughout history, you find the Jews in control of finances. People didn't appreciate it, not least the Catholic Church. Look at the Portuguese when they were colonising; the moment they were making money from the land/flora/fauna, they brought Jews in to manage the finances. Now personally I don't understand what equates Judaism to good financial management, but there's definitely a reason why Jews end up i control of a lot of money, and that's one of the reasons why Jews became hated in history.

Some friends of mine do Sociology at college, and they keep hearing about how whenever there's trouble, it's "always the Jews", so maybe there's something in that, too.

Quite early in Medieval History, rent (usury), profit from money - or "not working" as some put it - was legalised in the christian world. So that couldn't have worked long. Then came the plague, and still the Jews were scapegoated. Some say it's because they bathed regularly, and thus seemed to die less often than others - which in turn fueled the hate. I've read it somewhere in this thread - it's a lot of ignorance. And just that seems to be the ultimate achilles-heal of the Western world.
PS in your face Fukuyama: this thread proves that history is far from "over".

The Jews, like the Roma, have been a displaced population for the best part of two thousand years. Partly because their religion espouses a theme of racial superiority -- if the Jews are God's Chosen People, then by definition non-Jews are lesser beings, to some degree at least -- they have tended to keep themselves apart from other cultures. This has been reinforced, especially in Europe, by St Paul's efforts to make Christianity into a religion suitable for Roman citizens, which meant switching the blame for Christ's execution from the real culprits (the Romans) onto the Jews, who were in any case giving Paul a hard time for preaching Christianity (originally a millenarianist Jewish sect) to the Gentiles. Although it's only fair to point out that orthodox Christian teachings on the Jews more often than not forbade physical assaults, forced conversions etc. -- not that that stopped the enthusiasts and the general run-of-the-mill yahoos who will jump at any excuse to exclude, assault, rob and murder other people. Islamic attitudes towards the Jews have been, historically speaking, much more relaxed, benevolent and civilised. Not without its problems, but still far, far better. Compare for example the situation of the Jewish population of Spain before the Christian Reconquista, and after. Modern-day anti-Jewish feeling among Muslims only goes back 50-odd years to the founding of Israel.

In short, Jewish populations have usually been in small, scattered pockets, ethnically or at least culturally separate from the bulk of the people around them. This makes them a prime target for daft fairy stories which require some form of physical Bad Guys on whom to blame the failure of the crops, or a murrain on the cattle, or the loss of a battle or a war, or why me-and-my-dingbat-pals can't get a job, et bloody cetera. Dim-witted people with cripplingly low self-esteem are drawn to such myths like flies to shite. "It's not my fault I'm such a loser! It's the (insert ethnic minority here)!" The Jews just happen to have been the most readily available ethnic minority for much of the Western world for the best part of 2,000 years.

Anti-semitism isn't only Anti-Jew!

It's anti-Arab as well. So if Arabs are anti-semite, they hate themselves O_o

Wow. I didn't know that....

Yes, but what triggered that early displacement? Accepting the "culture is a reaction to nature" thesis - what made them "move"? Perhaps the Jews al too eagerly believed the "let my people go" part and move to exodus each time the going gets tough.
The scapegoating is, in essence, part of human nature. We fear, thus we hate. And we hate what is most likely to fear us in return. Jews, certain animals, witches, women, etc. But what started it? The prophecy that Jews will betray Jesus has a historical context as well. Is that what made them move, or were they already "minorical" and misplaced before that? Will we ever know? Should we even care - given the fact that any explanation will most often be used as justification for hate by all involved parties, albeit for different reasons...

I don't know for certain, but I believe the Romans expelled most if not all Jews from Israel after a failed uprising a few decades after the death of Jesus. Same time when they destroyed the Second Temple.

Quite early in Medieval History, rent (usury), profit from money - or "not working" as some put it - was legalised in the christian world. So that couldn't have worked long. Then came the plague, and still the Jews were scapegoated. Some say it's because they bathed regularly, and thus seemed to die less often than others - which in turn fueled the hate. I've read it somewhere in this thread - it's a lot of ignorance. And just that seems to be the ultimate achilles-heal of the Western world.
PS in your face Fukuyama: this thread proves that history is far from "over".

Usury isn't "rent", it's "lending money with interest". Jewish populations tended, because of their religion, to be literate, and because of the obstacles placed in the way of their owning property, to be urban. The Jews got involved with usury because they were in the right places, with the right skills, and nobody else in the West was allowed to do it. Christian injunctions against usury were finally dropped in the 14th century when the Catholic Church saw the scale of profits being made -- and by that time a lot of Christians were already ignoring the Church's commandments and buying their way out of any trouble anyway. Amazing how fast theology can change when cold hard cash is involved.

Whether Jewish people were less affected by the Black Death than others is unknown. Maybe they were, maybe they weren't. Given that they tended to live in urban ghettos, I'd be surprised if they were. There are few if any reliable figures for death tolls for any population. Numbers tended to be altered to coincide with Revelations. This is where the idea comes from that "one third" of Europe died: Revelations says that plague will kill one in three at the End Times; many writers thought that they were living through the End Times, so lo and behold, "one third of the population" dies. Chances are it was closer to 50%. However, it was undeniably the sort of situation where people go looking for scapegoats, so if there were any Jews around -- it was their fault. Failing that, it was That Stranger Over There, or Her With The Squint, or the cats, or jewels, or gold, or big hats, or music, or long pointy shoes, or...

Yes, but what triggered that early displacement? Accepting the "culture is a reaction to nature" thesis - what made them "move"? Perhaps the Jews al too eagerly believed the "let my people go" part and move to exodus each time the going gets tough.
The scapegoating is, in essence, part of human nature. We fear, thus we hate. And we hate what is most likely to fear us in return. Jews, certain animals, witches, women, etc. But what started it? The prophecy that Jews will betray Jesus has a historical context as well. Is that what made them move, or were they already "minorical" and misplaced before that? Will we ever know? Should we even care - given the fact that any explanation will most often be used as justification for hate by all involved parties, albeit for different reasons...

What triggered the early displacement was a mixture of the Roman destruction of the centre of the Jewish faith, which prompted a radical rethinking of what Judaism is, along with an acceptance by later generations of the reality of Roman rule. A whole mass of millenarianist looneys camped out on Masada and eventually killed themselves, and the remainder of the really Messianic strand of Judaism warped off into Christianity. Much of the original diaspora was probably from fear of, or forced by, the Romans. Much of it was probably voluntary, as a more considered form of Judaism emerged which was less caught up in the idea of specific, vital "sacred places": a more portable religion, if you like. But whereas other peoples, travelling around the Empire, blended and mixed and intermarried -- German tribesmen in Spain and Gaul, Britons in Italy, North Africans freezing their arses off on Hadrain's Wall, etc -- the Jews, because of their matrilinear faith, remained separate, or largely separate. Culturally distinct. In Imperial times, where at least in the urban centres people were fairly cosmopolitan, this wasn't much of a problem. After the collapse of Rome, and the falling back into a more tribal, land-and-cattle based society, they tended to stick out. They became the Obvious Ethnic Minority.

Your a Muslim Jew.. hahah.

But honestly, It's all to do with ignorance I guess. You are SO different from nearly any muslim I know.

Well, it's mandated by my sig.

Anyway, not even "most" Muslims hate Jews. Only a few, really. I've never met a Muslim who hated Jews.

Jews maintain themselves deliberately as a seperate culture wherever they live, they refuse to conform with popular religion, in the christian medieval world they served as bankers, which was necessary but not popular because of usury.

There are proximate causes in each case.

It is very similar to gypsies.

What lies behind these millennia of hatred? Why has the undercurrent of anti-Semitism bubbled and boiled and exploded against Jews everywhere, time and again throughout history?

I don't know, read Mein Kampf or the original Roman Catholic Bible. You could get what you want to know there I guess.

Because the Jews steal our money, our women and our land. Somebody had to say it.


Edit: hahaha, me joko

Edit: hahaha, me joko

Suuuuurrrrrrreeeeee.

Well, it's mandated by my sig.

Anyway, not even "most" Muslims hate Jews. Only a few, really. I've never met a Muslim who hated Jews.
I know a few Muslims who hate Yahudis.

I was married to a Jew ( whose mother threatened to throw herself off the roof when we got married because I'm a "Gentile" )
Jews refer to anyone who isn't Jewish as a Gentile - that's racist - it's very " Us and Them "
Jews are a very tight knit group who do not assimilate well into society - they find support within their own communities ( hence the impression that they tend to be rich - it's more like they all support each other ) . I find this to be an admirable quality - however, many people dislike it.
Jews claim to be God's chosen people. That has never sat well with me - and I think it's why MANY people don't like them. There is a lot of pressure for Jewish men to marry only Jewish women - because a child is not considered to be truly Jewish unless his or her mother is a Jew.
It's ridiculous when anti-semetics claim they hate Jews because Jews killed Jesus. - Jesus was a Jew -not a Christian there were no "Christians" at the time of Christ - he was considered to be a great prophet - and to many - the earthly embodiment of the spirit of God. The Romans crucified Jesus - end of story. People who try to use the " Jews killed Jesus" arguments are just ignorant and looking for someone to persecute to disguise their own low self- esteem.
Jews refuse to bend and change to political and societal pressures - they have retained their faith and customs for thousands of years and continue to do so today - their would-be opressors hate this - and therefore- resolve even more to "break the Jews " - Hence the holocaust.
The Holocaust was unspeakably horrible - (let's not forget the millions of Gypsies, Poles , dissenters and other " gentiles" who were also slaughtered ).
We have Holocausts and "ethnic cleansing "going on still today. the Sudan - Kosovo -Sierra Leonne- Uganda ( among others ) . But people only seem to talk about the Jews with sympathy - this causes MUCH tension .
The poliics of Isreal - especially under Ariel Sharon - have put the Jews more than ever in the spotlight - making them an easy target for anti-semitism.
I am pro-Jew. I am Anti- Isreal.
Some people just can't seem to separate the people from the politics. - a problem we are having in America right now.

1) Yes, I read the rest of the posts, but these arguments need to be opposed.
2) Separating people into categories isn't racist: it's distinction. Ever heard of taxonomy? Is it racist to use the term "non-Jews"? Didn't think so; it's just another term.
3) Although you defend "tight communities", one note that I need to make is that the community centers generally around a temple in Orthodox communities, because you can only walk so far on the Sabbath. And you make it sound cultish.
4) Don't all Western religions say they are G-d's chosen people? Anyway, it's in the Bible, and that's what Judaism is based on.
5) There's nothing wrong with refusing to bend to political and social pressures. Jewish communities are afraid of losing their <1% of the world's followers to assimilation.
6) The Holocaust was especially horrible because the League of Nations and the other international communities refused to recognize it at first, and after it was realized, they took no action whatsoever.
7) What do you expect Israel to do? The UN allotted it half of its current territory, which it accepted, but the Arab world refused to make peace and invaded. After being declared war on twice, later on (in the Six Day War and the Yom Kippur War), peace was reached at an international level, but rockets regularly enter houses and bombers kill civilians in the streets.

2) "seperating people isn't racist" - yes it is - I was subjected to it for years through my marraige.

3) I didn't intend to make the communites sound " cultish " - I think you are over sensitive to it. And I wasn't referring to just localized communities - Jews in NY support Jews in California, too. I meant it more as a " global community " support system. and as you said, I also defended it. But, my apologies if that's how you took it.

4) No, not all western religions say they are gods chosen people - TheJews say it as a RACE issue. Not, if you believe what we believe you are part of the chosen people. According to them you have to be Jewish by RACE ( which is another reason that they encourage their men to marry a Jewish woman.

5) I never said there was anything wrong with refusing to bend to political or societal pressure. I think it's a great thing.

6) There are genocides going on in the present that people are refusing to recognize. And I never said WHY it was so horrible, just that it WAS horrible - no point there to be refuted.

7) There are 2 sides to the Isreal issue - and I am not supportive of the politics of Isreal. We can start a whole new thread on that one if you wish. as i said before - people need to seperate the people from the politics.

I know a few Muslims who hate Yahudis.

Oh I imagine they're out there ... I've just never met any.

Muslims, because Mohammed tried to get the Jews to convert to Islam, and when they refused, he swore to kill them.
Christians, they seem to think the Jews were responsible for killing Jesus.

The Jews were supposed to kill Jesus, otherwise your sins could not be forgotten and forgiven and you could not have a personal relationship with God.

Jews maintain themselves deliberately as a seperate culture wherever they live, they refuse to conform with popular religion, in the christian medieval world they served as bankers, which was necessary but not popular because of usury.

There are proximate causes in each case.

It is very similar to gypsies.

Im surprized no one picked up on this one, because it has got to be one of the stupidest comments I have heard. This quote kinda pisses me off because I am jewish, I consider everything around me part of my culture, and I have lots of non - jewish neighbors and friends. Sure, I also have a lot of friends that are Jewish, but seeing them all the time in hebrew school can do that to you. Also, another reason why this comment is silly is because the only real places were jews entirely isolate the community is in othrodox communities, which is only really a fraction of the entire jewish population. The rest of the Jewish people are either conservative or reform, which is no where near the isolatedness that the orthodox have, primerily because unlike the orthodox, reform and conseravtive jews can use cars and other work anyday of the week, which means they don't have to be near a synogouge to be able to walk to it. While what was said above is true in some cases, where i'm from, it is no where near the case.

And? you never said if you conformed to popular religion. And in the way of you considering everything part of your culture, well that doesn't mean you conform to it like "the rest of us" do.

And? you never said if you conformed to popular religion. And in the way of you considering everything part of your culture, well that doesn't mean you conform to it like "the rest of us" do.
You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile

The Universities in Germany where continually spouting Socialism, Secular Humanism, Darwinism, and many other "isms" at the time (imagine going to college and having Karl Marx as your Professor and you get the idea.) Hitler was a product of such a education. Hitler was at heart, a socialism, he hated the Jews because they where visibly more successful then basically everyone else under Germany's failing economy and his promise to the German people to punish them was essentially a radical extension of our politicians promising to tax the "upper class." The second part of his hatred, the one mainly responsible for his fanatical racism, was Darwinism. He genuinely believed that the Jews (and gays, retards, gypsies, etc, etc) where genetically inferior to the Aryans and as such should be removed from the gene pool as to not taint the bloodline. This practice of applied Darwinism is known as Eugenics and to the best of my knowledge he was the only man to ever actually go through with it. By the tenets of Secular Humanism, man's reason is paramount and the only valid source of morality, by Hitler's "reasoning" he genuinely believed he was helping humanity (at least the Aryan part of it) by doing what he did. I suppose he is the poster child for the old proverb "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

Actually, Hitler was a staunch anti-communist. He hated socialism and really only supported it to win over the working class. As far as religion went, I'm told he went for a synthesis of Christianity, German paganism, and a bit of Darwinism.

You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile
what?

Muslims, because Mohammed tried to get the Jews to convert to Islam, and when they refused, he swore to kill them.
Christians, they seem to think the Jews were responsible for killing Jesus.

Actually, Islam treated Judaism very kindly and humanly for the first several hundred years, better than Christianity treated Judaism. In fact when the the Islamic army first took Jerusalem from the Christian army thequestion was what to do with the Jews who lived their. The Christian response was to drive them away or kill them. The Islamic leaders declined and Jewish people thrived under Islamic rule. And many Jews did convert to Islam.

You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile

Again? Great ... now I'm gonna need a new suit.

what do you mean conform like the rest of us?

if jews are the chosen people, why such big noses? gift of god my ass...

Actually, Hitler was a staunch anti-communist. He hated socialism and really only supported it to win over the working class. As far as religion went, I'm told he went for a synthesis of Christianity, German paganism, and a bit of Darwinism.
He hated socialism and his party was the National Socialist Party? He also set out and created massive work parties that at first banned the use of machinery (later he saw the error of that) to build his autobahns? He state funded the construction of the "peoples car"? The man was a socialist. A very authoritarian socialist.

Some of these posts are ridiculous.

In response, here be:

A Brief, and Rather Apologetic, History of Hatred of Jews

Jews first surfaced about 4000 years ago.

Skip ahead to 0 CE.

Jesus is crucified. The Sadducees, Jewish religious leaders and Roman political puppets, encourage Pontius Pilate to have Jesus disciplined. This I hope we all know.

BUT this sad little fact was blown exponentially out of proportion by the Roman Catholic Church in later years. Among other ridiculous claims the Church has made over the past 1500 years or so:

- the Jews killed Jesus. A good example of this belief today would be Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ," which depicts Jews showing utter contempt for Jesus as he walks down the roads of Jerusalem to his death. Never happened.

- Jews kill Christian children and drain their blood in a secret, gruesome ritual, after which that blood is mixed in with their matzah and eaten for sadistic pleasure. I hope no one here believes this, but if you look through some Arab media web pages, you'll be sure to find this myth spelled out in horrifying detail. This myth was particularly successful at inciting pogroms against Jews in Eastern Europe during the 18th and 19th Centuries.

- Jews have horns and hoofs. False, but was a good way to scare Christian children into believing Jews were aligned with the devil in some manner.

- Jews steal money from good Christians for their own nefarious purposes. This is by far the most successful and most enduring of these myths, because one could argue that evidence abounds today for its truthfulness. The facts: during the Middle Ages, the Church deemed it a sin to handle money and charge interest on it. In other words, moneylending and banking suddenly became unChristian. Nature abhors a vaccuum, and the Jewish population of Europe found that it was particularly adept at the practice of banking. So, while the Jews became richer, the Christians generally experienced no increase in their quality of life. Ironically, the very people they had subjugated for so long had won the upper hand as a result of their own action. In reality, however, Jewish bankers (i.e. the Rothschilds) were not any more successful than Christian bankers (i.e. the Medici). In fact, the Rothschilds saved Britain from bankruptcy during the 19th Century by lending them a highly generous loan at almost no interest.

These have, for the most part, been refuted by the Vatican (particularly at the Second Vatican Council during the 60s). However, they have persisted in another arena: the Arab Middle East.

It is important to remember that Islam, during the Middle Ages, was the most advanced culture on the face of the planet in mathematics, literature, science, and social justice. Jews and Christians were considered "people of the book," and given almost exactly the same rights as Muslims. However, when Islam came in contact with Christiam anti-Semitism during the Crusades, it (for some reason unknown to me) latched onto it wholesale. All of the above are still taught as fact in many schools and midrasas in the Arab Middle East, with some notable additions:

- the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion are taught as absolute fact. In reality, they were written by the KGB for the czar of Russia, Nicholas II (Last of the Romanovs) as a propaganda piece against the Jews in that country. They have been exposed as false countless times, but their legend persists.

- the Holocaust never happened, or was greatly exaggerrated in order to garner sympathy for the Zionists. This is not true. 6 million Jews, along with something in the neighborhood of 1 million homosexuals, 500 thousand Gypsies, and countless disabled, mentally retard, and foreign enemy nationals were worked, gased, shot, or incinerated to death by the Nazis during WWII.

- the Jews stole the land from the Palestinians illegally during, before, and after the inception of Israel. Again, not true. Jewish settlers in Palestine, fleeing persecution in Europe, began arriving in the late 1800s. They would work for Arab landowners, find unowned land, or purchase it from the Ottoman Empire. When the British gained Palestine after WWI, even more Jews began entering the territory, and the land was purchased LEGALLY from the British government. Some settlers even shared their cultivation techniques with the surrounding Arab villages, to the benefit of the Arabs there. Frankly, most of the Galilee was useless swamp before Zionism encouraged Jews to settle there. They drained the swamps and terraformed the land so that it became rich and fertile. Of more dubious background are the claims that Arabs were thrown off their land by invading Israeli forces during the War of Independence in 1948. Israel had agreed to a partition plan that would have left it with ridiculously defined and undefendable borders, despite their better judgement. The Arab states, with no input from the Palestinians in the area, rejected it outright, claiming that if the Jews declared independence they would crush them and push them into the sea. When it did declare independence of May 14, every adjacent nation invaded: Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Syria. Israel lost one percent of its entire population in that war. However, the claims made are in reference to those lands not originally in the partition plan that became part of Israel afterward. These are almost entirely areas from which Palestinians fled freely, after being encouraged by other Arab nations to do so as a safety measure; they were assured that their Arab brethren would crush the "Zionist enemy," after which they would be allowed back to their homes. There was simply no one there when the Israelis came through.

The most brilliant plan the Arabs ever devised against Israel was the usage of the Palestinians. By letting them stew and fester in the West Bank and Gaza instead of absorbing them into other countries, they created a means by which Israel would explode from the inside. Realizing they could not destroy it by conventional means of attack, this became their modus operandi.

There are also several other myths propagated by numerous groups of varying backgrounds, including:

Jews control the media. It is true that Jews were pivotal in the growth of Hollywood - the Warner Brothers, Goldwyn and Mayer, all were Jewish. But Jew's do not control the media; there is simply an inordinate proportion of them in the industry compared to other groups. This is also the reason why Jews do not "control the government;" Jewish traditional actually encourages public service, and a personal obligation shared by many Jews is social service to the community they've assimilated into.

And there you have it. These are the basic reasons for hatred of Jews in the world today. It is by no means a complete or unbiased list. Just the facts as I best understand them.

-DRP

Philosophes, I removed your statements that I had no comment on for conciseness.

Some of these posts are ridiculous.

In response, here be:

A Brief, and Rather Apologetic, History of Hatred of Jews

Jews first surfaced about 4000 years ago.

Skip ahead to 0 CE.

Jesus is crucified. The Sadducees, Jewish religious leaders and Roman political puppets, encourage Pontius Pilate to have Jesus disciplined. This I hope we all know.

BUT this sad little fact was blown exponentially out of proportion by the Roman Catholic Church in later years. Among other ridiculous claims the Church has made over the past 1500 years or so:

- the Jews killed Jesus. A good example of this belief today would be Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ," which depicts Jews showing utter contempt for Jesus as he walks down the roads of Jerusalem to his death. Never happened.

The Passion is not anti-semitic in any way. Mel Gibson wanted to reflect the fact that Jesus was despised and rejected of men. It just so happened that since he was crucified in Jerusalem, MOST OF THE PEOPLE AROUND HIM HAPPENED TO BE JEWS!!


- Jews steal money from good Christians for their own nefarious purposes. This is by far the most successful and most enduring of these myths, because one could argue that evidence abounds today for its truthfulness. The facts: during the Middle Ages, the Church deemed it a sin to handle money and charge interest on it. In other words, moneylending and banking suddenly became unChristian. Nature abhors a vaccuum, and the Jewish population of Europe found that it was particularly adept at the practice of banking. So, while the Jews became richer, the Christians generally experienced no increase in their quality of life. Ironically, the very people they had subjugated for so long had won the upper hand as a result of their own action. In reality, however, Jewish bankers (i.e. the Rothschilds) were not any more successful than Christian bankers (i.e. the Medici). In fact, the Rothschilds saved Britain from bankruptcy during the 19th Century by lending them a highly generous loan at almost no interest.


This was clearly a grave error on the part of the early Roman Catholic church which helped to propogate some unhealthy perspectives about finances that exist to this day.


These have, for the most part, been refuted by the Vatican (particularly at the Second Vatican Council during the 60s). However, they have persisted in another arena: the Arab Middle East.

It is important to remember that Islam, during the Middle Ages, was the most advanced culture on the face of the planet in mathematics, literature, science, and social justice. Jews and Christians were considered "people of the book," and given almost exactly the same rights as Muslims. However, when Islam came in contact with Christiam anti-Semitism during the Crusades, it (for some reason unknown to me) latched onto it wholesale. All of the above are still taught as fact in many schools and midrasas in the Arab Middle East, with some notable additions:


The children of Ishmael learned hatred for the children of Isaac long before the Crusades or Christianity. Abraham, despite being Godly man, unwisely decided to abandon Ishmael and his mother Hagar in the desert, whilst Isaac inherited his father's kingdom. That is the root of the conflict between the two.

And there you have it. These are the basic reasons for hatred of Jews in the world today. It is by no means a complete or unbiased list. Just the facts as I best understand them.
-DRP

The children of Ishmael learned hatred for the children of Isaac long before the Crusades or Christianity. Abraham, despite being Godly man, unwisely decided to abandon Ishmael and his mother Hagar in the desert, whilst Isaac inherited his father's kingdom. That is the root of the conflict between the two.

I understand your reasoning, but its a bit of an oversimplification. The Koran, more or less, simply reversed the traditional Abraham-Isaac story. In their teaching, Ishmael gets the blessing, because even though he was born of a concubine, he was the firstborn. It wasn't the last time the second child inherited the legacy. Isaac did it with his sons Jacob and Esau by mistake. (Blame Rebecca)

-DRP