NationStates Jolt Archive

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&ncid=716&e=5&u=/ap/20050315/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_syria

So an estimated 800,000+ people showed up at an Anti-Syrian rally. Where are all the people who said they were the minority? I'd love for someone to explain how they managed to gather this many people(and without the organizational power of Hamas). Does this quite possibly mean change is in store for the nation of Lebanon? Will Hamas play as much of a role as previously expected? Will the opposition allow for it? And if Hamas starts carrying out terrorist attacks against anti-Syrian leaders then what? However I still wonder..because I saw posts on here when the pro-Syria,Hamas rally carried out how many posters here took it as an excuse to bash the US and tell it to keep out of the affairs of the world.

Even though the US and France are actually agreeing for a change that Syria either needs to go or something needs to be done about it.And seeing as how France isnt above sending troops to its former colonies(see west coast of Africa) I dont think they'll be above getting involved with forcing Syria out should it come to it.

So what happens now?

I think you meant Hezbollah instead of Hamas. I can understand you slipping up somewhere along your line of thought there and just going with it though.

Hopefully the different ethnic groups can balance each other out in a new government instead of the current domination of the government/police by the minority Shiite Hezbollah. Any elections would probably require outside supervision in order to not be unduly affected by the current pro-Syrian government.

I think you meant Hezbollah instead of Hamas. I can understand you slipping up somewhere along your line of thought there and just going with it though.

Hopefully the different ethnic groups can balance each other out in a new government instead of the current domination of the government/police by the minority Shiite Hezbollah. Any elections would probably require outside supervision in order to not be unduly affected by the current pro-Syrian government.

Ah yes, sorry, I mix them up all the time.

No comments?

No one thinks this may lead to the Prime Minister stepping down(again)?

Well hoping for the best possible ending. Syria will be out of there eventually. Who is going to keep it from disinigrating into another civil war? EU? UN? US?
Someone is going to have to stabilise that country after Syria withdrawls.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&ncid=716&e=5&u=/ap/20050315/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_syria

So an estimated 800,000+ people showed up at an Anti-Syrian rally. Where are all the people who said they were the minority? I'd love for someone to explain how they managed to gather this many people(and without the organizational power of Hamas).
...


You honestly believe the number of people in a demonstration is an accurate reflection of attitudes about a certain issue? Nothing could be further from the truth. The massive anti-Iraq war demonstrations in the US dwarfed pro-Iraq war demonstrations. Yet the polls consistently showed that most people supported the war, and the elections proved that people liked Bush's policies.

You honestly believe the number of people in a demonstration is an accurate reflection of attitudes about a certain issue? Nothing could be further from the truth. The massive anti-Iraq war demonstrations in the US dwarfed pro-Iraq war demonstrations. Yet the polls consistently showed that most people supported the war, and the elections proved that people liked Bush's policies.

Its a nation of 3.7 million, for 800,000 people to gather and protest is quite an achievement. The US protests didnt even get the same amount in terms of percentages against the Iraqi war. So fine, 800,000 out of 3.7 million people protested, take those away you are left with 2.9 mil, take away the some 300k who protested in the Hezzbollah rally and you got 2.6 mil left. Take out children 1 day to 14 years old and you got about 1.5 mil left. Again these numbers are impressive. You cant play down the fact people want change in the area, nor do I see any reason why anyone would want to.

Its a nation of 3.7 million, for 800,000 people to gather and protest is quite an achievement. The US protests didnt even get the same amount in terms of percentages against the Iraqi war. So fine, 800,000 out of 3.7 million people protested, take those away you are left with 2.9 mil, take away the some 300k who protested in the Hezzbollah rally and you got 2.6 mil left. Take out children 1 day to 14 years old and you got about 1.5 mil left. Again these numbers are impressive. You cant play down the fact people want change in the area, nor do I see any reason why anyone would want to.

It is not a significant achievement, it is just a demonstration. Lebanon consistently elects a pro Syria government. Add to this the fact that both sides have held massive demonstrations, and you come to the undeniable conclusion that they are divied in their opinion. What is easier to do, to organise a demonstration protesting against the current government, spurred on by the assasination of a figure the opposition loved? or to organize a demonstration in support of what already exists? It is a well known fact that it is easier to organize people against something that is in place than to organize them in favor of it. Demonstrations are by definition an act of repudiation of the current status. Counter-demonstrations arent expected to be as effective.

The massive anti-Iraq war demonstrations in the US dwarfed pro-Iraq war demonstrations.

Yes, I've always thought it was curious that the U.S.'s population was the only one out of the Coaltition of the Willing's main players to actually have a majority in support of the war.

The Pro-Syrian protests attracted hundreds of thousands also, and although arranged by Hezbollah, it was attended by both Muslim and Christians, just like the anti-syrian protests.

If these demonstrations do lead to violence, I don't think it will be on religous lines but rather political, both claiming they are proud Lebanese nationalists.

Hezbollah may make a move for power, and then Al-Qaeda might as well, which will be interesting. Why?

Because Hezbollah are Shia Islamic. Al-Qaeda hate Shias, reportedly more than the US, that's why Al-Zarqawi's group keeps bombing Shia mosques in Iraq.

A Hezbollah vs Al-Qaeda war? Possible. Then of course Israel may get involved, Syria will say "You see what happens when you tell us to pull out!" and it will go on.

Syria are credited with restoring peace and order in Lebanon after the civil war, and it must have worked if they have muslims and christians, both former enemies in the war, now united in wanting the Syrians to leave or stay in the seperate demonstrations.

It's a bit hypocritical of the US to criticise Syria for having troops in Lebanon, but Bush hypocrisy is nothing new.

The Pro-Syrian protests attracted hundreds of thousands also, and although arranged by Hezbollah, it was attended by both Muslim and Christians, just like the anti-syrian protests.

If these demonstrations do lead to violence, I don't think it will be on religous lines but rather political, both claiming they are proud Lebanese nationalists.

Hezbollah may make a move for power, and then Al-Qaeda might as well, which will be interesting. Why?

Because Hezbollah are Shia Islamic. Al-Qaeda hate Shias, reportedly more than the US, that's why Al-Zarqawi's group keeps bombing Shia mosques in Iraq.

A Hezbollah vs Al-Qaeda war? Possible. Then of course Israel may get involved, Syria will say "You see what happens when you tell us to pull out!" and it will go on.

Syria are credited with restoring peace and order in Lebanon after the civil war, and it must have worked if they have muslims and christians, both former enemies in the war, now united in wanting the Syrians to leave or stay in the seperate demonstrations.

It's a bit hypocritical of the US to criticise Syria for having troops in Lebanon, but Bush hypocrisy is nothing new.

The reason why the Syrians kept troops in Lebanon was to "protect" it from Israel. They've so far ended up treating Lebanon more like a province than a soverign country and were asked by the UN to withdrawl. They've been asked by the French to withdraw. And now they're being asked by the US. Its not the hypocrisy of Bush. If you only see this as a US vs Syria thing then you're missing the bigger picture. No one in the region is coming to the side of Syria.

Apparently the BBC thinks nearly a million...


Beirut's Martyrs' Square was packed solid with people

Nearly one million people gathered for an opposition rally in Beirut, officials say - a month after the death of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4346613.stm

Apparently the BBC thinks nearly a million...


Beirut's Martyrs' Square was packed solid with people

Nearly one million people gathered for an opposition rally in Beirut, officials say - a month after the death of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4346613.stm


Sssshhh! No European wants to accept the idea that some Arabs actually want a change to the status quo in the Middle East...

Well hoping for the best possible ending. Syria will be out of there eventually. Who is going to keep it from disinigrating into another civil war? EU? UN? US?
Someone is going to have to stabilise that country after Syria withdrawls.
Hezbollah seems to be the strongest military player in Lebanon. If Syria leaves, count on Hezbollah to stage a coup and take power. Then the civil war starts anew, and Syria tries to roll back in. Perhaps by then the US will have enough troops freed up to intervene.

The reason why the Syrians kept troops in Lebanon was to "protect" it from Israel.

And civil war.


They've so far ended up treating Lebanon more like a province than a soverign country and were asked by the UN to withdrawl.


That's because Syria claim Lebanon as their territory like Iraq did with Kuwait.

Countries ignoring the UN resolutions is nothing new, Israel have ignored 60+ of them.


They've been asked by the French to withdraw.


Yes...and?


And now they're being asked by the US. Its not the hypocrisy of Bush. If you only see this as a US vs Syria thing then you're missing the bigger picture.


No, I have it in full clarification, thankyou very much. Bush telling a country to pull it's troops out of a middle east country = hypocrisy.

America has no moral standing in this case, and Bush making his comments is undermining the Lebanese cause.



No one in the region is coming to the side of Syria.


Iran have said different.


Sssshhh! No European wants to accept the idea that some Arabs actually want a change to the status quo in the Middle East...


Sssshhh! No American wants to discuss the huge Pro-Syria demonstrations in Beiruit, or accept the idea that some Arabs actually don't want a change to the status quo in the Middle East...