NationStates Jolt Archive

Now in another thread about the universe a mini discussion broke out. I want to pose this question. What is the purpose of humans? Why are we here? What is it we are suppose to do? Where are we going to eventually go? I said in another post that humans are really only designed to stay alive and procreate. So what do you think?

I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species. I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You move to an area, and you multiply, and multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet, you are a plague, and we are the cure.

I don't think we have a higher purpose. I think we create our own purpose...there isn't one coded into us genetically, or proclaimed to us by a deity.

I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species. I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You move to an area, and you multiply, and multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet, you are a plague, and we are the cure.
As much as I despise that movie, I have ALWAYS loved that description. It fits in so many ways.

Originally to spread more and more copies of our genetic material. Now we copy and spread ideas. Our purpose is dictated by the ideas we carry and promote.

As much as I despise that movie, I have ALWAYS loved that description. It fits in so many ways.

Agent Smith is the smartest thing on the planet.

Depends if the universe has an intellignet designer, doesn't it?
If it does- this designer probably instilled us with a purpose
If it doesn't- that purpose is self-defined, and therefore there is no higher purpose*
* unless you take chaos theory, apply it to human purpose as a whole, and determine an overall pattern to individual purpose, and if you did, I'd think the virus pattern would be fairly dead-on.

As Agent Smith said, we are the only animal not to live in equilibrium with our surroundings. Therefore, I would like to present the idea that we were put here by aliens for their entertainment. All they did was give us a nudge occasionally to make us more interesting. We are actually a more sophisticated version of sea monkeys.

Why is purpose so important?

I don't think we have a higher purpose. I think we create our own purpose...there isn't one coded into us genetically, or proclaimed to us by a deity.

We are actually genetically coded for a purpose. That purpose happens to be survival. :)

Now in another thread about the universe a mini discussion broke out. I want to pose this question. What is the purpose of humans? Why are we here? What is it we are suppose to do? Where are we going to eventually go? I said in another post that humans are really only designed to stay alive and procreate. So what do you think?
As I have said before, I believe that humans represent the efforts of the universe to become self-aware. As the only self-conscious beings of which we are aware, and as an integral part of the web of life, it is incumbent upon us to nurture and preserve all that lives. A high calling indeed.

Why is purpose so important?
It isn't. It just makes us feel better to delude ourselves into thinking we have one.

As Agent Smith said, we are the only animal not to live in equilibrium with our surroundings. Therefore, I would like to present the idea that we were put here by aliens for their entertainment. All they did was give us a nudge occasionally to make us more interesting. We are actually a more sophisticated version of sea monkeys. I thought of that for a while - made me mad, I hate being controlled and looked down on - but I have changed my mind since. We were put here by God, and… oh, you know the rest, we betrayed God and need to get back on the right track once more to face our true destiny, which will be achieved after the Apocalypse.

That's basically it, I think.

I thought of that for a while - made me mad, I hate being controlled and looked down on - but I have changed my mind since. We were put here by God, and… oh, you know the rest, we betrayed God and need to get back on the right track once more to face our true destiny, which will be achieved after the Apocalypse.

That's basically it, I think.

I believe in God, but I don't believe He's such an Ass that he cares a lot about what we do. If such a supreme being exists, I'm sure he'll realize that even the worst things we do are only the acts of children.

Compare anything you could possibly do to the sheer size and timescale of the Universe. Then come back and tell me that we betrayed God.

Personally, I think we're an open-ended science experiment that every once in a while the scientists come back to see how we grow.

We are actually genetically coded for a purpose. That purpose happens to be survival. :)

Survival is a means to an end, not an end in itself. Much the same way someone should tell Rumsfeld that war is a means to an end, not an end in itself.

We have no purpose.

Life becomes much easier when you realize that.

Why is purpose so important?

It seems to allow people to feel useful and significant, empowered even, when they are accomplishing something. For most people, actions without goals (purpose) are meaningless. Without that sense of meaning, most people experience ennui, which often seriously impairs their ability to survive. Ultimately, having a purpose is conducive to our survival for the most part. There are a few purposes that defy the need to survive, but most enhance our drive to survive. We form relationships and feel a sense of obligation to stay around and do things. We feel guilty committing suicide if we have obligations to others. (ie. Who will take care of the children when I'm gone? Will they be hurt by my death?) These obligations to others are some of the purposes we set for ourselves, and they enhance our drive to survive admirably.

I personally think that we live for expansion. And the fact that space research is gradually getting sacrificed to dumb genetic experiments is devil's work, cuz they solve nothing.

But I call for UN to create a Human Purpose Committee which will review all opinions and thus, in the most democratic way - it will proclaim an official purpose, so that there will no wars erupted from the discussion.

My Majesty,
Max Ist King of Newkraine

We are actually genetically coded for a purpose. That purpose happens to be survival. :)
Na...or we wouldn't be so ridiculously wasteful and harmful to our environment. What other species shits where it eats? (Figuratively, mostly)

We have no purpose.

Life becomes much easier when you realize that.

Life also becomes easier if you give up all forms of morality. The easiest route is not always the best.

Survival is a means to an end, not an end in itself. Much the same way someone should tell Rumsfeld that war is a means to an end, not an end in itself.

What end do you see in survival, and how does human nature tell us what that end is?

What end do you see in survival, and how does human nature tell us what that end is?

Death is the obvious end of survival. Since survival must end for all of us, it can't be the higher purpose. It simply must be the time-limit we have to achieve whatever our purpose happens to be.

Personally I believe in God and Jesus. I don't believe he created us and then left us to our own ways, completely. Nor do I feel he dictates all our actions. God did give man free will, if he didn't then everyone right now would be a worshiping God.

I believe that God has balanced it out, he dictates some things in our lifes such as when we accept him and believe in him, and accept him into our lives and hearts and ask him for what he desires us to do, he will generally guide us in the path that he wants. This is proven in by Jonah, God told him to go and preach to a certain area, Jonah refused. God didn't make Jonah go, but did strongly encourage him to (the whale eating Jonah).

Na...or we wouldn't be so ridiculously wasteful and harmful to our environment. What other species shits where it eats? (Figuratively, mostly)

Lots of species do stupid things. Many animal populations will eat ravenously and expand their population during the times when they have plenty of food and room, without considering that the population growth cannot be sustained at that level. Then they grow too large and a bunch of them die off. They were trying to survive, but they haven't quite figured out the best way to do so.

You seem to be saying that unless you are doing a good job of survival, your purpose isn't survival. That sounds rather silly to me. Let's see if this rationale works when applied to other activities.

My purpose clearly cannot be to debate because I'm not good at it. ;)
My purpose clearly cannot be to grill a steak because it tastes bad. ;)

Nope, it doesn't make sense. It seems that purpose cannot be determined by the level of success one enjoys in an activity. :)

I think people are motivated to avoid pain and seek happiness/pleasure. This drive is even more fundamental than survival, since some people are in such emotional or physical pain that they'd rather avoid it by killing themselves than to survive.

Death is the obvious end of survival. Since survival must end for all of us, it can't be the higher purpose. It simply must be the time-limit we have to achieve whatever our purpose happens to be.

1. Ah...you need to think on a larger scale, grasshopper. By survival I meant the survival of the species. Individuals die, but the species lives on as long as there are members of it reproducing.

2. You seem to be making the same mistake that Sinuhue was with your conclusion that "our lives end so clearly we aren't meant to survive". It could simply be that our purpose is to survive but we aren't all that proficient at it. :)

I think people are motivated to avoid pain and seek happiness/pleasure. This drive is even more fundamental than survival, since some people are in such emotional or physical pain that they'd rather avoid it by killing themselves than to survive.

Or this could just be another example of people failing miserably to achieve their purpose of survival. ;)

Na...or we wouldn't be so ridiculously wasteful and harmful to our environment. What other species shits where it eats? (Figuratively, mostly)
Dogs and rabbits eat their own shit (literally, I guess)

Death is the obvious end of survival. Since survival must end for all of us, it can't be the higher purpose. It simply must be the time-limit we have to achieve whatever our purpose happens to be.

In this case, survival tends more towards 'propagate your DNA'. As long as your genetic material (or similar genetic material, as from siblings) ends up in the next generation, in a way you've survived. At least I think that's how it works.

Or this could just be another example of people failing miserably to achieve their purpose of survival. ;)
I don't think we can arbitrarily define someone else's purpose, and if a suicidal person decides that his purpose does not involve living, we can't find any universal code of morality in order to contradict him. So I'm of the opinion that each individual finds his or her own purpose, which basically means enjoy yourself and live a life as comfortably as possible.

Our purpose is to strive, seek and improve, however our actual lifestyle degrade, make us close our eyes and destroy. The reason for this dilemma, is that we have forgotten our true self and is now seeing the worthless as the valuable.

I don't think we can arbitrarily define someone else's purpose, and if a suicidal person decides that his purpose does not involve living, we can't find any universal code of morality in order to contradict him. So I'm of the opinion that each individual finds his or her own purpose, which basically means enjoy yourself and live a life as comfortably as possible.

I wasn't referring to any purpose that we perceive ourselves as having, such as theological or hedonistic purposes. I was referring to a biological purpose.

And, by the way, I found a universal code of morality the other day. I'm just having trouble getting other people to believe in it. ;)

I wasn't referring to any purpose that we perceive ourselves as having, such as theological or hedonistic purposes. I was referring to a biological purpose.

Well we're genetically coded so that we're always looking for pleasure and trying to avoid pain. Personal happiness is intimately connected with propagation of the species. The reason people have children is that producing the child through sex is physically pleasant and raising the child is emotionally pleasant. If having sex was invariably painful and raising kids was invariably a nuisance, then the species would die off quickly since no one would voluntarily reproduce.

Well we're genetically coded so that we're always looking for pleasure and trying to avoid pain. Personal happiness is intimately connected with propagation of the species. The reason people have children is that producing the child through sex is physically pleasant and raising the child is emotionally pleasant. If having sex was invariably painful and raising kids was invariably a nuisance, then the species would die off quickly since no one would voluntarily reproduce.

Which would indicate to you that the human purpose is... :D

Sometimes I like to think that if there is a god, it is a little child who made bacteria grow on a little ball for a science experiment.
I often think that if there is a god, then it was either for amusement or that he was a child.. he or she seems too immature for me ^.~

There is also the theory that we were an experiment by Aliens to become slaves to do their mining work. It would tell us why a lot of people get depressed when they have nothing to do/work on/ have a purpose. Just like a person who professionally breeds working german shepherds... they will harness the genes that make them want to work. (That's right folks, german shepherds are just automatically born into wanting to be a police force dog, or whatever it's job is... A breeder has to harness it.. thus lazy German Shepherd and Working German Shepherds)

Other than that... YES we are a virus
And as far as I know, we are purposeless, and should be exterminated =P

Damn non-compassionates

Forty-two

Forty-two

Stavro Mueller's Beta

Which would indicate to you that the human purpose is... :D
To have fun. I would have fun masturbating and having sex, but I'd also have fun playing computer games, hanging out with friends, watching a good movie etc. I don't know yet if I want a kid, and there are plenty of people who like the sex but don't want children, and there exist people who are physically unable to derive pleasure from sexual acts, ie the thought of sex repels them. Then there are homosexuals, for whom reproductive sex is not associated with pleasure. That is why reproduction isn't a one-size-fits-all "purpose" that we can attribute to everyone.

ARGGG must...resits...cant...


It is purpose that created us.
Purpose that connects us.
Purpose that pulls us.
That guides us.
That drives us.
It is purpose that defines us.
Purpose that binds us.

:) all better :P
i still like the other smith quote better tho :D

To have fun. I would have fun masturbating and having sex, but I'd also have fun playing computer games, hanging out with friends, watching a good movie etc. I don't know yet if I want a kid, and there are plenty of people who like the sex but don't want children, and there exist people who are physically unable to derive pleasure from sexual acts, ie the thought of sex repels them. Then there are homosexuals, for whom reproductive sex is not associated with pleasure. That is why reproduction isn't a one-size-fits-all "purpose" that we can attribute to everyone.

I never said that reproduction is the purpose, so I don't think that's relevant.

Forty-2nd post in the thread!

I never said that reproduction is the purpose, so I don't think that's relevant.
Aren't you talking about "survival of the species"? Isn't reproduction involved in that?

Aren't you talking about "survival of the species"? Isn't reproduction involved in that?

Yes, but "Being involved" isn't the same thing as "is the same as". I could be involved in (or even the main participant in) an orgy without being the same as an orgy.

I thought you were referring to the fundamental importance of reproduction...
Well we're genetically coded so that we're always looking for pleasure and trying to avoid pain. Personal happiness is intimately connected with propagation of the species. The reason people have children is that producing the child through sex is physically pleasant and raising the child is emotionally pleasant. If having sex was invariably painful and raising kids was invariably a nuisance, then the species would die off quickly since no one would voluntarily reproduce.Which would indicate to you that the human purpose is... :D

We have no purpose. Nothing has a purpose. Everything just is.

But if everyone knew that, half the population would just commit suicide. Therefore, it is necessary for us to make the mistake that we, and everyhting else, has a purpose.

I thought you were referring to the fundamental importance of reproduction...

Nah. I was pointing to the fact that all the things you discussed ultimately aided in survival. Sorry I wasn't clear. :(

Our purpose is to balance the Snamuh. It doesnt extend beyond that.

Our purpose is to balance the Snamuh. It doesnt extend beyond that.

WTF?

Nah. I was pointing to the fact that all the things you discussed ultimately aided in survival. Sorry I wasn't clear. :(
Well there are those, notably certain environmentalists, who could care less if the human species suddenly disappeared from the earth... everyone has their own values, likes, and dislikes.

The purpose of Humans is to destroy the World. In which case I think were doin just fine..... :p

WTF?

Spell Snamuh backwards.

Well there are those, notably certain environmentalists, who could care less if the human species suddenly disappeared from the earth... everyone has their own values, likes, and dislikes.

So you want to talk about values rather than biology? That's fine. I would be curious to know which value system seems to you the most/least conducive to survival. :)

Why does nobody heed the 42?

As I have said before, I believe that humans represent the efforts of the universe to become self-aware. As the only self-conscious beings of which we are aware, and as an integral part of the web of life, it is incumbent upon us to nurture and preserve all that lives. A high calling indeed.


This is an interesting theory. One that I personally think fits some questions. I always have friends that think doom and gloom. Talk about the end of the world and humans going extinct. I think we are destined to populate the Galaxy then the Universe. Like a virus in some ways. Although we don't know if we are the only humans around either. We will develop new techs and actually be able to do some God like things. Not saying we will become God. But as far as ability to create on a small level. I'm sure we will.

Spell Snamuh backwards.

ahh, very clever ;)

So you want to talk about values rather than biology? That's fine. I would be curious to know which value system seems to you the most/least conducive to survival. :)
There is nothing written in our biology that tells us to preserve the species. People (and animals) only try to seek pleasure, avoid pain, and preserve one's self, not the whole species. Every individual has different means of action to these ends. Those scary anti-social people (like the unabomber) who live and die alone in the woods have fulfilled their purpose in life, and they don't care if the rest of humanity die off. And these anti social people are perfectly biologically viable specimens. Your concern about preserving the species is merely your personal values system and opinions.

There is nothing written in our biology that tells us to preserve the species. People (and animals) only try to seek pleasure, avoid pain, and preserve one's self, not the whole species. Every individual has different means of action to these ends. Those scary anti-social people (like the unabomber) who live and die alone in the woods have fulfilled their purpose in life, and they don't care if the rest of humanity die off. And these anti social people are perfectly biologically viable specimens. Your concern about preserving the species is merely your personal values system and opinions.

what about the fact that people tend to protect the lives and interests of their offspring over almost anything else? That is kind of helping to further the whole species.

Now in another thread about the universe a mini discussion broke out. I want to pose this question. What is the purpose of humans? Why are we here? What is it we are suppose to do? Where are we going to eventually go? I said in another post that humans are really only designed to stay alive and procreate. So what do you think?

There isnt one. Evolution. Nothing. Who knows?

what about the fact that people tend to protect the lives and interests of their offspring over almost anything else? That is kind of helping to further the whole species.
There are exceptions to this (sociopaths, etc.).
Each individual, whether sociopath, hippie, heterosexual, homosexual, whatever has his or her own codes of conduct and self-defined purpose, so I don't think anyone can authoritatively proclaim one pattern of behavior to be the purpose for all of humanity.

You know what's really funny? If you go through this whole thread and substitute "porpoise" for "purpose".

(Hey! maybe that's my purpose.)

There is nothing written in our biology that tells us to preserve the species.

And yet our instinctual behaviors are geared towards the survival of the species. There may not be a single shining sign that says, "Survival of the species is the goal," but taken as a whole, our instinctual behaviors are conducive to the survival of the species, which indicates that our biological function is survival of the species.

People (and animals) only try to seek pleasure, avoid pain, and preserve one's self, not the whole species.

...and yet those instincts serve to ensure the survival of the species in most cases. Do you think that this is just a coincidence?

Every individual has different means of action to these ends. Those scary anti-social people (like the unabomber) who live and die alone in the woods have fulfilled their purpose in life, and they don't care if the rest of humanity die off. And these anti social people are perfectly biologically viable specimens.

1. Please don't start that perceived purpose = biological purpose thing again.

2. Are you indicating by this example that, "clearly the purpose is not survival of the species because these people suck at it and/or are actively working against it"? If so, that's already been dealt with earlier in the thread.

Your concern about preserving the species is merely your personal values system and opinions.

True. My personal concern for the species is based on my own value system and opinions. Of course, the unabomber's lack of concern for the species is also merely his personal values system and opinions and is irrelevant to the actual biological purpose of the species.

There are exceptions to this (sociopaths, etc.).
Each individual, whether sociopath, hippie, heterosexual, homosexual, whatever has his or her own codes of conduct and self-defined purpose, so I don't think anyone can authoritatively proclaim one pattern of behavior to be the purpose for all of humanity.

I didnt say everyone does it. Most people do though so it does benefit the species.

We are animals that strive to be the best in everything. We have no purpose buty to suffer, be in pain, and be depressed, and have no happiness in life. After deathy we wander in hell being roasted alive for eternity.

I could be wrong.

We are animals that strive to be the best in everything. We have no purpose buty to suffer, be in pain, and be depressed, and have no happiness in life. After deathy we wander in hell being roasted alive for eternity.

I could be wrong.
Best in everything, even typos and morbidity.

Best in everything, even typos and morbidity.
I don't get it.

Fools!

Everone knows that the purpose of Humans is to get to the end of the level with as many memebers of your tribe surviving as possible. It's also helpful to find some inventions along the way.

Humans was one of my favorite Genesis games.

Fools!

Everone knows that the purpose of Humans is to get to the end of the level with as many memebers of your tribe surviving as possible. It's also helpful to find some inventions along the way.

Humans was one of my favorite Genesis games.


Yeah that game was cool