NationStates Jolt Archive

I really like how some people paint Bill Clinton as an useless adulterer and dtrimental to the wellbeing of the US. Well, think again:

· Longest economic expansion in American history
The President’s strategy of fiscal discipline, open foreign markets and investments in the American people helped create the conditions for a record 115 months of economic expansion. Our economy has grown at an average of 4 percent per year since 1993.
· More than 22 million new jobs
More than 22 million jobs were created in less than eight years -- the most ever under a single administration, and more than were created in the previous twelve years.
· Highest homeownership in American history
A strong economy and fiscal discipline kept interest rates low, making it possible for more families to buy homes. The homeownership rate increased from 64.2 percent in 1992 to 67.7 percent, the highest rate ever.
· Lowest unemployment in 30 years
Unemployment dropped from more than 7 percent in 1993 to just 4.0 percent in November 2000. Unemployment for African Americans and Hispanics fell to the lowest rates on record, and the rate for women is the lowest in more than 40 years.
· Raised education standards, increased school choice, and doubled education and training investment
Since 1992, reading and math scores have increased for 4th, 8th, and 12th graders, math SAT scores are at a 30-year high, the number of charter schools has grown from 1 to more than 2,000, forty-nine states have put in place standards in core subjects and federal investment in education and training has doubled.
· Largest expansion of college opportunity since the GI Bill
President Clinton and Vice President Gore have nearly doubled financial aid for students by increasing Pell Grants to the largest award ever, expanding Federal Work-Study to allow 1 million students to work their way through college, and by creating new tax credits and scholarships such as Lifetime Learning tax credits and the HOPE scholarship. At the same time, taxpayers have saved $18 billion due to the decline in student loan defaults, increased
collections and savings from the direct student loan program.
· Connected 95 percent of schools to the Internet
President Clinton and Vice President Gore’s new commitment to education technology, including the E-Rate and a 3,000 percent increase in educational technology funding, increased the percentage of schools connected to the Internet from 35 percent in 1994 to 95 percent in 1999.
· Lowest crime rate in 26 years
Because of President Clinton’s comprehensive anti-crime strategy of tough penalties, more police, and smart prevention, as well as common sense gun safety laws, the overall crime rate declined for 8 consecutive years, the longest continuous drop on record, and is at the lowest level since 1973.
· 100,000 more police for our streets
As part of the 1994 Crime Bill, President Clinton enacted a new initiative to fund 100,000 community police officers. To date more than 11,000 law enforcement agencies have received COPS funding
· Enacted most sweeping gun safety legislation in a generation
Since the President signed the Brady bill in 1993, more than 600,000 felons, fugitives, and other prohibited persons have been stopped from buying guns. Gun crime has declined 40 percent since 1992.
· Family and Medical Leave Act for 20 million Americans
To help parents succeed at work and at home, President Clinton signed the Family and Medical Leave Act in 1993. Over 20 million Americans have taken unpaid leave to care for a newborn child or sick family member.
· Smallest welfare rolls in 32 years
The President pledged to end welfare as we know it and signed landmark bipartisan welfare reform legislation in 1996. Since then, caseloads have been cut in half, to the lowest level since 1968, and millions of parents have joined the workforce. People on welfare today are five times more likely to be working than in 1992.
· Higher incomes at all levels
After falling by nearly $2,000 between 1988 and 1992, the median family’s income rose by $6,338, after adjusting for inflation, since 1993. African American family income increased even more, rising by nearly $7,000 since 1993. After years of stagnant income growth among average and lower income families, all income brackets experienced double-digit growth since 1993. The bottom 20 percent saw the largest income growth at 16.3 percent.
· Lowest poverty rate in 20 years
Since Congress passed President Clinton’s Economic Plan in 1993, the poverty rate declined from 15.1 percent to 11.8 percent last year – the largest six-year drop in poverty in nearly 30 years. There are now 7 million fewer people in poverty than in 1993. The child poverty rate declined more than 25 percent, the poverty rates for single mothers, African Americans and
the elderly have dropped to their lowest levels on record, and Hispanic poverty dropped to its lowest level since 1979.
· Lowest teen birth rate in 60 years
In his 1995 State of the Union Address, President Clinton challenged Americans to join together in a national campaign against teen pregnancy. The birth rate for teens aged 15-19 declined every year of the Clinton Presidency, from 60.7 per 1,000 teens in 1992 to a record low of 49.6 in 1999.
· Lowest infant mortality rate in American history
The Clinton Administration expanded efforts to provide mothers and newborn children with health care. Today, a record high 82 percent of all mothers receive prenatal care. The infant mortality rate has dropped from 8.5 deaths per 1,000 in 1992 to 7.2 deaths per 1,000 in 1998, the lowest rate ever recorded.
· Deactivated more than 1,700 nuclear warheads from the former Soviet Union
Efforts of the Clinton-Gore Administration led to the dismantling of more than 1,700 nuclear warheads, 300 launchers and 425 land and submarine based missiles from the former Soviet Union.
· Protected millions of acres of American land
President Clinton has protected more land in the lower 48 states than any other president. He has protected 5 new national parks, designated 11 new national monuments and expanded two others and proposed protections for 60 million acres of roadless areas in America’s national forests.
· Paid off $360 billion of the national debt
Between 1998-2000, the national debt was reduced by $363 billion — the largest three-year debt pay-down in American history. We are now on track to pay off the entire debt by 2009.
Converted the largest budget deficit in American history to the largest surplus
Thanks in large part to the 1993 Deficit Reduction Act, the 1997 Balanced Budget Act, and President Clinton’s call to save the surplus for debt reduction, Social Security, and Medicare solvency, America has put its fiscal house in order. The deficit was $290 billion in 1993 and expected to grow to $455 billion by this year. Instead, we have a projected surplus of $237 billion.
· Lowest government spending in three decades
Under President Clinton federal government spending as a share of the economy has decreased from 22.2 percent in 1992 to a projected 18.5 percent in 2000, the lowest since 1966.
· Lowest federal income tax burden in 35 years
President Clinton enacted targeted tax cuts such as the Earned Income Tax Credit expansion, $500 child tax credit, and the HOPE Scholarship and Lifetime Learning Tax Credits. Federal income taxes as a percentage of income for the typical American family have dropped to their lowest level in 35 years.
· More families own stock than ever before
The number of families owning stock in the United States increased by 40 percent since 1992.
· Most diverse cabinet in American history
The President has appointed more African Americans, women and Hispanics to the Cabinet than any other President in history. He appointed the first female Attorney General, the first female Secretary of State and the first Asian American cabinet secretary ever.

Source: http://www.australianpolitics.com/usa/clinton/

This thread should be titled: How the USA ruined Bill Clinton. :D

I guess we'll forget that during Bill Clinton's eight years in office, the number of guns owned by Americans rose from 200 million to nearly 300 million, most of them handguns. And that the "assault weapons" ban didn't really ban the weapons - it banned the "evil" features such as bayonet lugs, folding stocks, and high capacity magazines. In essence, since millions of high capacity magazines had already been produced, people just bought those separately - I was one such person.

The "assault weapons" ban didn't stop me from legally purchasing a semi-automatic version of the M-4 assault rifle, nor did it stop me from buying 30-rd magazines for my Browning Hi-Power pistol. The ban was useless - which is why it was retired.

It's hard to say that Clinton's gun laws caused a drop in crime since they didn't slow the purchase of firearms, especially high capacity firearms. You might also note that during those years, 30 states passed concealed carry laws - against his wishes - and the drop you see in crime is in those states alone - cities with high crime and murder rates and strict gun laws continued to see more and more violent crime.

This thread should be titled: How the USA ruined Bill Clinton. :D

Let's not forget that he subverted the Constitution by commiting Perjury in a Court of Law... what a guy!

Regards,
Gaar

He did Moanica Blewinski proud :)

Let's not forget that he subverted the Constitution by commiting Perjury in a Court of Law... what a guy!

Regards,
Gaar

Amazing...a politician who lies. Whatever next?

Let's not forget that he subverted the Constitution by commiting Perjury in a Court of Law... what a guy!

Regards,
Gaar


If that's the best you can come up with, I've got a wall in China to sell you...

Amazing...a politician who lies. Whatever next?

A politician who lied and got caught at it. Too bad for him.

It's not really a fault of morals, just a blunder.

I really like how some people paint Bill Clinton as an useless adulterer and dtrimental to the wellbeing of the US. Well, think again:

· Longest economic expansion in American history
The President’s strategy of fiscal discipline, open foreign markets and investments in the American people helped create the conditions for a record 115 months of economic expansion. Our economy has grown at an average of 4 percent per year since 1993.
· More than 22 million new jobs
More than 22 million jobs were created in less than eight years -- the most ever under a single administration, and more than were created in the previous twelve years.
· Highest homeownership in American history
A strong economy and fiscal discipline kept interest rates low, making it possible for more families to buy homes. The homeownership rate increased from 64.2 percent in 1992 to 67.7 percent, the highest rate ever.
· Lowest unemployment in 30 years
Unemployment dropped from more than 7 percent in 1993 to just 4.0 percent in November 2000. Unemployment for African Americans and Hispanics fell to the lowest rates on record, and the rate for women is the lowest in more than 40 years.
· Raised education standards, increased school choice, and doubled education and training investment
Since 1992, reading and math scores have increased for 4th, 8th, and 12th graders, math SAT scores are at a 30-year high, the number of charter schools has grown from 1 to more than 2,000, forty-nine states have put in place standards in core subjects and federal investment in education and training has doubled.
· Largest expansion of college opportunity since the GI Bill
President Clinton and Vice President Gore have nearly doubled financial aid for students by increasing Pell Grants to the largest award ever, expanding Federal Work-Study to allow 1 million students to work their way through college, and by creating new tax credits and scholarships such as Lifetime Learning tax credits and the HOPE scholarship. At the same time, taxpayers have saved $18 billion due to the decline in student loan defaults, increased
collections and savings from the direct student loan program.
· Connected 95 percent of schools to the Internet
President Clinton and Vice President Gore’s new commitment to education technology, including the E-Rate and a 3,000 percent increase in educational technology funding, increased the percentage of schools connected to the Internet from 35 percent in 1994 to 95 percent in 1999.
· Lowest crime rate in 26 years
Because of President Clinton’s comprehensive anti-crime strategy of tough penalties, more police, and smart prevention, as well as common sense gun safety laws, the overall crime rate declined for 8 consecutive years, the longest continuous drop on record, and is at the lowest level since 1973.
· 100,000 more police for our streets
As part of the 1994 Crime Bill, President Clinton enacted a new initiative to fund 100,000 community police officers. To date more than 11,000 law enforcement agencies have received COPS funding
· Enacted most sweeping gun safety legislation in a generation
Since the President signed the Brady bill in 1993, more than 600,000 felons, fugitives, and other prohibited persons have been stopped from buying guns. Gun crime has declined 40 percent since 1992.
· Family and Medical Leave Act for 20 million Americans
To help parents succeed at work and at home, President Clinton signed the Family and Medical Leave Act in 1993. Over 20 million Americans have taken unpaid leave to care for a newborn child or sick family member.
· Smallest welfare rolls in 32 years
The President pledged to end welfare as we know it and signed landmark bipartisan welfare reform legislation in 1996. Since then, caseloads have been cut in half, to the lowest level since 1968, and millions of parents have joined the workforce. People on welfare today are five times more likely to be working than in 1992.
· Higher incomes at all levels
After falling by nearly $2,000 between 1988 and 1992, the median family’s income rose by $6,338, after adjusting for inflation, since 1993. African American family income increased even more, rising by nearly $7,000 since 1993. After years of stagnant income growth among average and lower income families, all income brackets experienced double-digit growth since 1993. The bottom 20 percent saw the largest income growth at 16.3 percent.
· Lowest poverty rate in 20 years
Since Congress passed President Clinton’s Economic Plan in 1993, the poverty rate declined from 15.1 percent to 11.8 percent last year – the largest six-year drop in poverty in nearly 30 years. There are now 7 million fewer people in poverty than in 1993. The child poverty rate declined more than 25 percent, the poverty rates for single mothers, African Americans and
the elderly have dropped to their lowest levels on record, and Hispanic poverty dropped to its lowest level since 1979.
· Lowest teen birth rate in 60 years
In his 1995 State of the Union Address, President Clinton challenged Americans to join together in a national campaign against teen pregnancy. The birth rate for teens aged 15-19 declined every year of the Clinton Presidency, from 60.7 per 1,000 teens in 1992 to a record low of 49.6 in 1999.
· Lowest infant mortality rate in American history
The Clinton Administration expanded efforts to provide mothers and newborn children with health care. Today, a record high 82 percent of all mothers receive prenatal care. The infant mortality rate has dropped from 8.5 deaths per 1,000 in 1992 to 7.2 deaths per 1,000 in 1998, the lowest rate ever recorded.
· Deactivated more than 1,700 nuclear warheads from the former Soviet Union
Efforts of the Clinton-Gore Administration led to the dismantling of more than 1,700 nuclear warheads, 300 launchers and 425 land and submarine based missiles from the former Soviet Union.
· Protected millions of acres of American land
President Clinton has protected more land in the lower 48 states than any other president. He has protected 5 new national parks, designated 11 new national monuments and expanded two others and proposed protections for 60 million acres of roadless areas in America’s national forests.
· Paid off $360 billion of the national debt
Between 1998-2000, the national debt was reduced by $363 billion — the largest three-year debt pay-down in American history. We are now on track to pay off the entire debt by 2009.
Converted the largest budget deficit in American history to the largest surplus
Thanks in large part to the 1993 Deficit Reduction Act, the 1997 Balanced Budget Act, and President Clinton’s call to save the surplus for debt reduction, Social Security, and Medicare solvency, America has put its fiscal house in order. The deficit was $290 billion in 1993 and expected to grow to $455 billion by this year. Instead, we have a projected surplus of $237 billion.
· Lowest government spending in three decades
Under President Clinton federal government spending as a share of the economy has decreased from 22.2 percent in 1992 to a projected 18.5 percent in 2000, the lowest since 1966.
· Lowest federal income tax burden in 35 years
President Clinton enacted targeted tax cuts such as the Earned Income Tax Credit expansion, $500 child tax credit, and the HOPE Scholarship and Lifetime Learning Tax Credits. Federal income taxes as a percentage of income for the typical American family have dropped to their lowest level in 35 years.
· More families own stock than ever before
The number of families owning stock in the United States increased by 40 percent since 1992.
· Most diverse cabinet in American history
The President has appointed more African Americans, women and Hispanics to the Cabinet than any other President in history. He appointed the first female Attorney General, the first female Secretary of State and the first Asian American cabinet secretary ever.

Source: http://www.australianpolitics.com/usa/clinton/

Control of the Congress belonged to? I mean really, if we're going to be giving Clinton these accolades, why not give the same accolades to the actual Congress that passed all the things "Clinton did"?

Control of the Congress belonged to? I mean really, if we're going to be giving Clinton these accolades, why not give the same accolades to the actual Congress that passed all the things "Clinton did"?
All the nice things peope say Bush did are also done by Congress.
So why do people praise Bush than?

Clinton was great, especially economically speaking. let's not forget about Bush...

Federal surplus deficit (http://bushgame.com/g1.html)

Budget Crisis (http://bushgame.com/g2.html)

Estate Tax (http://bushgame.com/g3.html)

Jobs & benefits (http://bushgame.com/g9.html)

I really like how some people paint Bill Clinton as an useless adulterer and dtrimental to the wellbeing of the US. Well, think again:

· Longest economic expansion in American history
The President’s strategy of fiscal discipline, open foreign markets and investments in the American people helped create the conditions for a record 115 months of economic expansion. Our economy has grown at an average of 4 percent per year since 1993.
· More than 22 million new jobs
More than 22 million jobs were created in less than eight years -- the most ever under a single administration, and more than were created in the previous twelve years.
· Highest homeownership in American history
A strong economy and fiscal discipline kept interest rates low, making it possible for more families to buy homes. The homeownership rate increased from 64.2 percent in 1992 to 67.7 percent, the highest rate ever.
· Lowest unemployment in 30 years
Unemployment dropped from more than 7 percent in 1993 to just 4.0 percent in November 2000. Unemployment for African Americans and Hispanics fell to the lowest rates on record, and the rate for women is the lowest in more than 40 years.
· Raised education standards, increased school choice, and doubled education and training investment
Since 1992, reading and math scores have increased for 4th, 8th, and 12th graders, math SAT scores are at a 30-year high, the number of charter schools has grown from 1 to more than 2,000, forty-nine states have put in place standards in core subjects and federal investment in education and training has doubled.
· Largest expansion of college opportunity since the GI Bill
President Clinton and Vice President Gore have nearly doubled financial aid for students by increasing Pell Grants to the largest award ever, expanding Federal Work-Study to allow 1 million students to work their way through college, and by creating new tax credits and scholarships such as Lifetime Learning tax credits and the HOPE scholarship. At the same time, taxpayers have saved $18 billion due to the decline in student loan defaults, increased
collections and savings from the direct student loan program.
· Connected 95 percent of schools to the Internet
President Clinton and Vice President Gore’s new commitment to education technology, including the E-Rate and a 3,000 percent increase in educational technology funding, increased the percentage of schools connected to the Internet from 35 percent in 1994 to 95 percent in 1999.
· Lowest crime rate in 26 years
Because of President Clinton’s comprehensive anti-crime strategy of tough penalties, more police, and smart prevention, as well as common sense gun safety laws, the overall crime rate declined for 8 consecutive years, the longest continuous drop on record, and is at the lowest level since 1973.
· 100,000 more police for our streets
As part of the 1994 Crime Bill, President Clinton enacted a new initiative to fund 100,000 community police officers. To date more than 11,000 law enforcement agencies have received COPS funding
· Enacted most sweeping gun safety legislation in a generation
Since the President signed the Brady bill in 1993, more than 600,000 felons, fugitives, and other prohibited persons have been stopped from buying guns. Gun crime has declined 40 percent since 1992.
· Family and Medical Leave Act for 20 million Americans
To help parents succeed at work and at home, President Clinton signed the Family and Medical Leave Act in 1993. Over 20 million Americans have taken unpaid leave to care for a newborn child or sick family member.
· Smallest welfare rolls in 32 years
The President pledged to end welfare as we know it and signed landmark bipartisan welfare reform legislation in 1996. Since then, caseloads have been cut in half, to the lowest level since 1968, and millions of parents have joined the workforce. People on welfare today are five times more likely to be working than in 1992.
· Higher incomes at all levels
After falling by nearly $2,000 between 1988 and 1992, the median family’s income rose by $6,338, after adjusting for inflation, since 1993. African American family income increased even more, rising by nearly $7,000 since 1993. After years of stagnant income growth among average and lower income families, all income brackets experienced double-digit growth since 1993. The bottom 20 percent saw the largest income growth at 16.3 percent.
· Lowest poverty rate in 20 years
Since Congress passed President Clinton’s Economic Plan in 1993, the poverty rate declined from 15.1 percent to 11.8 percent last year – the largest six-year drop in poverty in nearly 30 years. There are now 7 million fewer people in poverty than in 1993. The child poverty rate declined more than 25 percent, the poverty rates for single mothers, African Americans and
the elderly have dropped to their lowest levels on record, and Hispanic poverty dropped to its lowest level since 1979.
· Lowest teen birth rate in 60 years
In his 1995 State of the Union Address, President Clinton challenged Americans to join together in a national campaign against teen pregnancy. The birth rate for teens aged 15-19 declined every year of the Clinton Presidency, from 60.7 per 1,000 teens in 1992 to a record low of 49.6 in 1999.
· Lowest infant mortality rate in American history
The Clinton Administration expanded efforts to provide mothers and newborn children with health care. Today, a record high 82 percent of all mothers receive prenatal care. The infant mortality rate has dropped from 8.5 deaths per 1,000 in 1992 to 7.2 deaths per 1,000 in 1998, the lowest rate ever recorded.
· Deactivated more than 1,700 nuclear warheads from the former Soviet Union
Efforts of the Clinton-Gore Administration led to the dismantling of more than 1,700 nuclear warheads, 300 launchers and 425 land and submarine based missiles from the former Soviet Union.
· Protected millions of acres of American land
President Clinton has protected more land in the lower 48 states than any other president. He has protected 5 new national parks, designated 11 new national monuments and expanded two others and proposed protections for 60 million acres of roadless areas in America’s national forests.
· Paid off $360 billion of the national debt
Between 1998-2000, the national debt was reduced by $363 billion — the largest three-year debt pay-down in American history. We are now on track to pay off the entire debt by 2009.
Converted the largest budget deficit in American history to the largest surplus
Thanks in large part to the 1993 Deficit Reduction Act, the 1997 Balanced Budget Act, and President Clinton’s call to save the surplus for debt reduction, Social Security, and Medicare solvency, America has put its fiscal house in order. The deficit was $290 billion in 1993 and expected to grow to $455 billion by this year. Instead, we have a projected surplus of $237 billion.
· Lowest government spending in three decades
Under President Clinton federal government spending as a share of the economy has decreased from 22.2 percent in 1992 to a projected 18.5 percent in 2000, the lowest since 1966.
· Lowest federal income tax burden in 35 years
President Clinton enacted targeted tax cuts such as the Earned Income Tax Credit expansion, $500 child tax credit, and the HOPE Scholarship and Lifetime Learning Tax Credits. Federal income taxes as a percentage of income for the typical American family have dropped to their lowest level in 35 years.
· More families own stock than ever before
The number of families owning stock in the United States increased by 40 percent since 1992.
· Most diverse cabinet in American history
The President has appointed more African Americans, women and Hispanics to the Cabinet than any other President in history. He appointed the first female Attorney General, the first female Secretary of State and the first Asian American cabinet secretary ever.

Source: http://www.australianpolitics.com/usa/clinton/



You're right about most of that. The reason I don't like Clinton was because of what he did with the Iraq and terrorist issues. The World trade center bombing was considered a crime rather than a terrorist bombing. He knew Sadam and the Osama were problems and yet did nothing for fear of his political future. It was a valid fear, but it gets me going thinking he knew and yet did nothing.

Control of the Congress belonged to? I mean really, if we're going to be giving Clinton these accolades, why not give the same accolades to the actual Congress that passed all the things "Clinton did"?
So i guess a president and his cabinet are completely useless and just the funny people who makes noises on tv, right?
Dont you conservatives ever get tired of "Yeah, but he lied" and conveniently ignore those achievements? It is you who constantly call out for a lean government and Clinton brought that. You want more efficency in government spending? You had it eight years. Better education for less money? Here you go. Lower taxes for Joe Average. Done. 22 million new jobs, unemployment down by 3%...
But hey, whats being better off for large parts of US society compared to the evil that is a blowjob and not being honest about it?

According to Michael Moore, Clinton is the best Republican President since Ronald Reagan.

Ending welfare as we know it....

Attacking seven nations without provocation...

Michael has a list - and dedicated a whole TV show to the concept.

So i guess a president and his cabinet are completely useless and just the funny people who makes noises on tv, right?

By and large that is more true than it is false.

Dont you conservatives ever get tired of "Yeah, but he lied" and conveniently ignore those achievements? It is you who constantly call out for a lean government and Clinton brought that. You want more efficency in government spending? You had it eight years. Better education for less money? Here you go. Lower taxes for Joe Average. Done. 22 million new jobs, unemployment down by 3%...
But hey, whats being better off for large parts of US society compared to the evil that is a blowjob and not being honest about it?

I didn't say he lied. And frankly I don't care.

The President makes absolutely no law, he only signs it. The Congress created and passed virtually everything that occurred under Clinton and all he did was sign it. I suppose Congress is just a bunch of completely useless people who show up on tv?

You can't say "Bill Clinton ruined the USA".

He was elected, twice.

He's not the only person who runs the government. You have to account for Congress, the Supreme Court, and of course, the bureaucracy - which is more powerful than all the rest put together.

I would say that he was extremely unpopular with the military, largely due to an outspoken hostility at the outset - initially, Hillary got a ban on the wearing of military uniforms at the White House.

Not a good way to get started as "Commander in Chief".

I would also point out that the Secret Service seemed oddly lax about protecting him. When a crazy man opened fire at the White House fence, the Secret Service huddled in the basement doing nothing. The crazy man was subdued by two tourists and a homeless man who waited for the crazy man's gun to go empty. It was 20 more minutes before the Secret Service sent anyone outside to see what was going on.

He was also seriously disrespected - with no repercussions - when he visited the aircraft carrier Roosevelt during his first term.

It's one thing for a sector of the population to dislike the President. But when the Secret Service and the military dislike you - because you get off on the foot of "I hate the military," you aren't going to go anywhere.

Please-Clinton just happened to be in office when the improvements and strong economy started in Bush Sr's term came to fruition.
If he was so wonderful and he actually did all the things you claim, why couldnt he pull Arkansas out of the toilet ? He had plenty of time to do it and very little restraint to stop him. He was to busy personally mired in land and investment scams. During his term a govenor of Arkansas, the state enjoyed the highest unemployment rate, lowest education ranking and the list goes on and on.

According to Michael Moore, Clinton is the best Republican President since Ronald Reagan.

Ending welfare as we know it....

Attacking seven nations without provocation...

Michael has a list - and dedicated a whole TV show to the concept.
Thats cause Reagan was the last time an actual conservative ran on the Republican ticket. Neither Bush was conservative, at least not economically. Since Reagan, its been all about the Neo-Conservatives, economically liberal, overpatriotic (almost to the point of fascism), in fact, the only 'conservative' thing about them is their view towards Social Issues which is, "if it wasn't around in Leave it to Beaver, it shouldn't be around now"

Note: Economically Liberal in this case refers to the amount of money being spent, not the level of taxes.

Thats cause Reagan was the last time an actual conservative ran on the Republican ticket. Neither Bush was conservative, at least not economically. Since Reagan, its been all about the Neo-Conservatives, economically liberal, overpatriotic (almost to the point of fascism), in fact, the only 'conservative' thing about them is their view towards Social Issues which is, "if it wasn't around in Leave it to Beaver, it shouldn't be around now"

No, that's because neither the Democrats nor the Republicans are truly "conservative", and there hasn't been a Left in the United States since before 1929.

As an example of this, if you think that at this point in time, policy in Iraq would be any different if Kerry were President, you need to go back and refill your hash pipe.

I guess we'll forget that during Bill Clinton's eight years in office, the number of guns owned by Americans rose from 200 million to nearly 300 million, most of them handguns.

I thought you were a big gun fan? You should be pleased that more people join you in exercising their rights, and you should be also pleased that ol Bill encouraged them to do so.

I thought you were a big gun fan? You should be pleased that more people join you in exercising their rights, and you should be also pleased that ol Bill encouraged them to do so.

I am a big fan of gun ownership.

However...

Bill said one thing - and got something else entirely.

To say that somehow his gun ban had any effect other than to radically increase the sales of assault weapons is to put your head in the sand.

I know many people who had never had one, never wanted to buy one - but as soon as the ban came into effect, we all went out and got one - just in case the ban got worse.

Gun stores and assault weapon manufacturers made A LOT OF MONEY.

No, that's because neither the Democrats nor the Republicans are truly "conservative", and there hasn't been a Left in the United States since before 1929.

As an example of this, if you think that at this point in time, policy in Iraq would be any different if Kerry were President, you need to go back and refill your hash pipe.
I don't know, Kerry is the closest thing to a liberal we've had in recent memory. Now, I don't think Kerry would do what everyone was expecting him to and pull all of the U.S. soldiers out over-night. Because he's smarter than that. He realizes that since the Bush Administration (well, the military under said administration's guidance) ousted the _entire_ power structure in Iraq, that without someone to keep order for the time being, it would devolve into a mob-rule anarchy. Now, Iraq policy wouldn't have changed, but overall foreign policy and economic policy particularly would have changed greatly. I do agree with you though, America is lacking in a true left. Even our most 'liberal' media (short of maybe the Daily Show) is conservative compared to that of the rest of the Western World. (Personally I don't see what they're complaining about with the 'liberal' media, but thats a topic for another time). Well, that isn't entirely true, we have a true left, but our idiotic two party system shuts it out. For a truely liberal party you gotta go Green.

I am a big fan of gun ownership.

However...

Bill said one thing - and got something else entirely.Maybe that was his plan all along. The upshot is, you got what you wanted, why are you complaining?
To say that somehow his gun ban had any effect other than to radically increase the sales of assault weapons is to put your head in the sand.I don't hear anybody saying that.
I know many people who had never had one, never wanted to buy one - but as soon as the ban came into effect, we all went out and got one - just in case the ban got worse.God Bless the second amendment - which Bill didn't stop you exercising your rights under.
Gun stores and assault weapon manufacturers made A LOT OF MONEY.God bless america - isn't making money the point of gun stores and weapon manufacturers?

I don#t see what you're complaining about.

I guess we'll forget that during Bill Clinton's eight years in office, the number of guns owned by Americans rose from 200 million to nearly 300 million, most of them handguns. And that the "assault weapons" ban didn't really ban the weapons - it banned the "evil" features such as bayonet lugs, folding stocks, and high capacity magazines. In essence, since millions of high capacity magazines had already been produced, people just bought those separately - I was one such person.

The "assault weapons" ban didn't stop me from legally purchasing a semi-automatic version of the M-4 assault rifle, nor did it stop me from buying 30-rd magazines for my Browning Hi-Power pistol. The ban was useless - which is why it was retired.

It's hard to say that Clinton's gun laws caused a drop in crime since they didn't slow the purchase of firearms, especially high capacity firearms. You might also note that during those years, 30 states passed concealed carry laws - against his wishes - and the drop you see in crime is in those states alone - cities with high crime and murder rates and strict gun laws continued to see more and more violent crime.

You have never had a comparison to villify the assault weapons ban until now, so why don't you shut the hell up until you have a comparison number to go "see it was useless" or it proves that the assault weapons ban helped crime and you slink away like the beaten dog you will be. Stop throwing out opinionated crap until you have something to back it up with

According to Michael Moore, Clinton is the best Republican President since Ronald Reagan.

Ending welfare as we know it....

Attacking seven nations without provocation...

Michael has a list - and dedicated a whole TV show to the concept.
You sure watch Michael More so much to hate him. I bet he loves getting your hate money when you go and watch his movies to attack him

It's one thing for a sector of the population to dislike the President. But when the Secret Service and the military dislike you - because you get off on the foot of "I hate the military," you aren't going to go anywhere.
Oh yes because the people who blindly support republicans hate you because you arn't Republican, you must be bad...

You have never had a comparison to villify the assault weapons ban until now, so why don't you shut the hell up until you have a comparison number to go "see it was useless" or it proves that the assault weapons ban helped crime and you slink away like the beaten dog you will be. Stop throwing out opinionated crap until you have something to back it up with

Crimes are committed with pistols, not AK-47s. The assault weapon ban was, by virtue of what it targeted, useless in fighting crime.

I wish, for just one term, I could get a President who did what he said he would do, and meant what he said, etc.

I think that Clinton shafted the liberals within the Democratic Party (the people who today belong to moveon, etc.). He gave them a big award - the Order of the Purple Shaft, with oak leaf clusters.

Bush seems to be doing something similar to "conservatives".

Yes, I still have my guns - in fact, most states have passed concealed carry laws, etc.

I'm tired of the doublespeak - tired of the "I'm all for guns - but I want to ban some - but the ban is crap", tired of the "I'm fighting the war on terror - in Iraq - but they don't have WMD - now we're stuck there", tired of the two parties bullshit.

I can't for the life of me figure out how the Democrats nominated Kerry. He seemed to me like a first class bullshit artist - and I'd rather take the bullshit artist I know, than the one I don't.

Crimes are committed with pistols, not AK-47s. The assault weapon ban was, by virtue of what it targeted, useless in fighting crime.
There were far more things banned than automatic AK-47s

Whispering Legs stop babbling. All you are talknig now is random crap, which isn't much different than normal, but normally you spew it as related to a topic. Great, you hate the Democrats, we get it, shut up.

There were far more things banned than automatic AK-47s

To wit:

High capacity magazines manufactured AFTER the ban. Magazines (millions of them) manufactured BEFORE the ban remained LEGAL.

Flash hiders that are screw mounted to the barrel. Those that are pinned and soldered remained LEGAL.

Any combination of three or more of the following items:

Flash hider (screw mounted)
Pistol grip
Bayonet lug
Folding stock

So, to sell an "assault weapon" with a high cap magazine, you only needed to drop the bayonet lug (which no one uses), the folding stock (of limited utility), and the flash hider. Sell the customer a box of high cap magazines at a mildly inflated price.

That's what I, and millions of others did - and it was perfectly legal.

I even bought 30-rd magazines for my Browning Hi-Power pistol. Nice.

Still think the "assault weapons" ban banned any real "assault weapons". Think again.

I'm tired of the doublespeak - tired of the "I'm all for guns - but I want to ban some - but the ban is crap", tired of the "I'm fighting the war on terror - in Iraq - but they don't have WMD - now we're stuck there", tired of the two parties bullshit.



Well I wouldn't argue with a viable third party, since the Dems. are just a moderate party.

If you mean that you want a 1 party system.... Well... I think that I don't even need to point out the flaws in that...

To wit:

High capacity magazines manufactured AFTER the ban. Magazines (millions of them) manufactured BEFORE the ban remained LEGAL.

Flash hiders that are screw mounted to the barrel. Those that are pinned and soldered remained LEGAL.

Any combination of three or more of the following items:

Flash hider (screw mounted)
Pistol grip
Bayonet lug
Folding stock

So, to sell an "assault weapon" with a high cap magazine, you only needed to drop the bayonet lug (which no one uses), the folding stock (of limited utility), and the flash hider. Sell the customer a box of high cap magazines at a mildly inflated price.

That's what I, and millions of others did - and it was perfectly legal.

I even bought 30-rd magazines for my Browning Hi-Power pistol. Nice.

Still think the "assault weapons" ban banned any real "assault weapons". Think again.

I was referring to:
Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all models);
Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil;
Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);
Colt AR-15;
Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;
SWD M-10; M-11; M-11/9, and M-12;
Steyr AUG;
INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9, AND TEC-22;
revolving cylinder shotguns such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12.

Yes those were banned but they ALSO banned a nice list of guns. Stop manipulating facts so that you make your highly flawed argument, nothing new here either, look correct, you can do that without ignoring obvious facts

Well I wouldn't argue with a viable third party, since the Dems. are just a moderate party.

If you mean that you want a 1 party system.... Well... I think that I don't even need to point out the flaws in that...

I believe that at this point in time, the Democrats and Republicans are essentially a single party. There isn't enough of a difference between them to make a difference.

Well I wouldn't argue with a viable third party, since the Dems. are just a moderate party.

If you mean that you want a 1 party system.... Well... I think that I don't even need to point out the flaws in that...
In Soviet Russia candidate elects YOU!

I believe that at this point in time, the Democrats and Republicans are essentially a single party. There isn't enough of a difference between them to make a difference.
And if there was you would bitch your fingers off about how the Democrats are too far left and the Republicans are great trying to save this country from those "commies"

I believe that at this point in time, the Democrats and Republicans are essentially a single party. There isn't enough of a difference between them to make a difference.
Democrats=Buttered Toast
Republicans=Margarine'd Toast

Democrats=Buttered Toast
Republicans=Margarine'd Toast

I can't believe it's not butter...

I was referring to:
Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all models);
Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil;
Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);
Colt AR-15;
Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;
SWD M-10; M-11; M-11/9, and M-12;
Steyr AUG;
INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9, AND TEC-22;
revolving cylinder shotguns such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12.

Yes those were banned but they ALSO banned a nice list of guns. Stop being a manipulative twit, or yeah, and hyppocrite, stop that

Crimes are commited with Pistols, like say a M9 Beretta pistol, not the above list of automatic shotguns, sub-machine guns and "assualt weapons."

I was referring to:
Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all models);
Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil;
Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);
Colt AR-15;
Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;
SWD M-10; M-11; M-11/9, and M-12;
Steyr AUG;
INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9, AND TEC-22;
revolving cylinder shotguns such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12.

Yes those were banned but they ALSO banned a nice list of guns. Stop manipulating facts so that you make your highly flawed argument, nothing new here either, look correct, you can do that without ignoring obvious facts


I guess you'll be happy to know that as soon as those models had their bayonet lugs removed, and their flash hiders replaced, they were sold en-masse.

That's why I have an AR-15 and a Steyr AUG bought during the assault weapons ban. Legally.

I'm not twisting facts. If you knew more about firearms, and what happened in stores during that period, you would know how stupid the people who wrote the ban looked after it became law.

Crimes are commited with Pistols, like say a M9 Beretta pistol, not the above list of automatic shotguns, sub-machine guns and "assualt weapons."
The INTRATEC weapons are pretty much handguns, and the UZI and SWDs arn't exactly large unconsealable guns

I guess you'll be happy to know that as soon as those models had their bayonet lugs removed, and their flash hiders replaced, they were sold en-masse.

That's why I have an AR-15 and a Steyr AUG bought during the assault weapons ban. Legally.

I'm not twisting facts. If you knew more about firearms, and what happened in stores during that period, you would know how stupid the people who wrote the ban looked after it became law.
Weapons made before the law was passed could still be sold. They just couldn't be made during the ban for domestic use.

And you still have no real comparison to say it was a useless law, you won't for another year

The INTRATEC weapons are pretty much handguns, and the UZI and SWDs arn't exactly large unconsealable guns

The INTRATEC TEC-9. Now sold as the INTRATEC AB-10. The major difference between the two is the barrel shroud. The AB-10 has a short barrel that is not threaded and cannot accept attachments

Of course the TEC-9 and the TEC-22 were singled out in the ban due to their "futuristic appearence"

The INTRATEC TEC-9. Now sold as the INTRATEC AB-10. The major difference between the two is the barrel shroud. The AB-10 has a short barrel that is not threaded and cannot accept attachments

Of course the TEC-9 and the TEC-22 were singled out in the ban due to their "futuristic appearence"
Don't make me stab you with my light saber

Don't make me stab you with my light saber

What you mean that when they banned the TEC 9 they allowed the production of virtually the exact same gun?

As far as the UZI and SWB go, see the term "sub-machine gun." Either way the Pistol is still the weapon that ends up being used in crimes.

What you mean that when they banned the TEC 9 they allowed the production of virtually the exact same gun?

As far as the UZI and SWB go, see the term "sub-machine gun." Either way the Pistol is still the weapon that ends up being used in crimes.
The question is, "Is that why the ban wasn't effective or is that an effect of the ban?"

With any form of security, its hard to tell cause and effect. For instance, has there not been another terrorist attack because our almost paranoid level of security has scared them off, or have they just not been trying?

The question is, "Is that why the ban wasn't effective or is that an effect of the ban?"

Pistols were the weapon of the choice pre, during and will probably remain so post. Even then the true weapon of choice is an illegaly purchased firearm that can't be traced anyway.

Weapons made before the law was passed could still be sold. They just couldn't be made during the ban for domestic use.

And you still have no real comparison to say it was a useless law, you won't for another year

Mine were "Post-ban". Which means that they were made during the ban.

I really like how some people paint Bill Clinton as an useless adulterer and dtrimental to the wellbeing of the US. Well, think again:
<snip>

but he had sex with a fat chick! Who wasn't his wife! That negates everything!!!!
He was a terrible president!!
I'm not listening to you, lalalalalalalalalalalala (eyes closed/hands over ears)


^^Typical conservative response^^


If that doesn't work:
He repealed gun laws so I couldn't buy a machine gun to shoot people with! He was a NAZI!! And his wife was evil! EVIL I tell you!

If that doesn't work:
He repealed gun laws so I couldn't buy a machine gun to shoot people with! He was a NAZI!! And his wife was evil! EVIL I tell you!

No, he didn't repeal any gun laws.

Machineguns have been restricted since 1934, if you care to read the National Firearms Act. So you couldn't buy a machinegun before Bill Clinton (not without a 200 dollar tax, a background investigation from the FBI taking months, proof that you have a safe and an alarm system, and permission from your local law enforcement).

As for "assault weapons", the ban was on cosmetic features, and had loopholes in it large enough to drive 85 million guns sold without the "evil" features.

Clinton seriously compromised U.S. security. Read all about it in Betrayal by Bill Gertz and Year of the Rat by Edward Timperlake and William C. Triplett.

George Bush has ALSO compromised national security by running up a record national debt.....90% of which is held by FOREIGN investors. All they need to do is call in their marks, Roach Busters, and this country's economy would cave in.

I just got back from bikeweek in daytona and dont want to hear any more loud noises for a while.

George Bush has ALSO compromised national security by running up a record national debt.....90% of which is held by FOREIGN investors. All they need to do is call in their marks, Roach Busters, and this country's economy would cave in.

I know that. Bush is an even worse traitor than Clinton. Yet, because he is a Republicrud, he is allowed to get away with it.

No, that's because neither the Democrats nor the Republicans are truly "conservative", and there hasn't been a Left in the United States since before 1929.

As an example of this, if you think that at this point in time, policy in Iraq would be any different if Kerry were President, you need to go back and refill your hash pipe.
Wow!

How good of you to point out that no damn politicans are left of centre in your country. Most right wing people seem to go on about how John Kerry is so left, he's practically a terrorist and such garbage.

Wow!

How good of you to point out that no damn politicans are left of centre in your country. Most right wing people seem to go on about how John Kerry is so left, he's practically a terrorist and such garbage.

You'll notice that Bush isn't really conservative, except to pay lip service to some of his constituency.

As far as I'm concerned, he's Clinton without the women on the side. A more boring version of the same kind of policies.

You do remember who did the no-fly zone enforcement over Iraq? Bombed Sudan?

John Kerry is about as left as my right shoe. Come to think of it, even a Labour party man like Tony Blair is about as right as I am on the political compass.

Democrats=Buttered Toast
Republicans=Margarine'd Toast

The most brilliant political analysis displayed in this thread.

The most brilliant political analysis displayed in this thread.
I Still Can't Believe It's Not Butter...

Let's not forget that he subverted the Constitution by commiting Perjury in a Court of Law... what a guy!

Regards,
Gaar
Aquitted.


Regards,
CSW

I can't for the life of me figure out how the Democrats nominated Kerry.
There we do agree. I dont get why Gen. Wesley Clark didnt make it as candidate.

There we do agree. I dont get why Gen. Wesley Clark didnt make it as candidate.
I believe that somehow, Hillary and Bill had the whole priimary thing rigged.

Dean would have been more exciting than Kerry (that's not saying much). Clark harder to assail.

But no, they picked the dull one with the flotation device on his head.