NationStates Jolt Archive

At the risk of sounding like Michael Moore, I'll try and be careful how I phrase this!....

What happened in America to the congregation in that hotel a few days ago just reminded me once again how easy it is to own a gun in America......

Why dont the authorities take note once and for all, and clamp down so that this thing doesnt happen quite so often.....

It just seems that it happens more in America than anywhere else in the world!

Why?....

At the risk of sounding like Michael Moore, I'll try and be careful how I phrase this!....

What happened in America to the congregation in that hotel a few days ago just reminded me once again how easy it is to own a gun in America......

Why dont the authorities take note once and for all, and clamp down so that this thing doesnt happen quite so often.....

It just seems that it happens more in America than anywhere else in the world!

Why?....


How exactly would the authorities clamp down?
A) how would they remove all the guns presently in circulation.

b) How would they stop the illegal importation of firearms(assuming they shut down local factories). The authorities cant stop illegal drugs from coming in, how would they stop guns?

c) How would the autorities stop domestic manufacturing given that it doesnt take many tools or much knowledge to make one?

Not to mention each state has its own gun laws. How do you get each of the 50 states to sign off on equal gun laws without doing it through the Federal Government and risking it being struck down by Supreme Court?

Not to mention each state has its own gun laws. How do you get each of the 50 states to sign off on equal gun laws without doing it through the Federal Government and risking it being struck down by Supreme Court?

Well, the Clinton AWB and Brady bill got through didnt they? Stir up enough panic during the right presidency and you can do all sorts of things.

Stir up enough panic during the right presidency and you can do all sorts of things.

Exactly. Panic and fear make all sorts of legislation possible. It helps if you name the bill after someone, preferably a little girl.

Those are the same problems that every country faces.......and if the people who run the country want this to come into effect, it can and would happen!....

Exactly. Panic and fear make all sorts of legislation possible. It helps if you name the bill after someone, preferably a little girl.

Are you talking about the sex offender law? I forget the name of the girl.

edit: Megan's law I think

Why do people see a mass shooting and think, "guns! Guns are bad! Guns are much more effective at killing people than readily available explosives and car accidents and cancer! Get rid of them! Security is worth more than freedom, unless it's my freedom, as in the Patriot Act!"

Knee-jerk reactions aren't always the best response. For example, if you're trying to sell lemonade for $20 per glass and aren't satisfied with your profits, raising the price probably won't help.

As Michael Moore himself admitted in Bowling for Columbine, guns aren't the problem. Canada has guns. Switzerland has guns. They don't have problems. It's something about our culture. He hinted at the "fear mentality" of the U.S. and completely ignored the state of our education system.

Yeah seriously. If someone was the least bit intelligent and simply wanted to kill the most amount of people without getting caught all they'd need to do is plant some explosives and trigger them to detonate 12 hours later or some such...

Not that I'm planning anything...

Or have acess to anything...

I'm leaving now.

Don't be at 80th and Elm Blvd at 8pm Martian time

Why?....
Its part of our social contract. Our government gives us virtually no welfare state benefits that you Europeans have but as a trade off we get to kill each other.

Yeah seriously. If someone was the least bit intelligent and simply wanted to kill the most amount of people without getting caught all they'd need to do is plant some explosives and trigger them to detonate 12 hours later or some such...

Not that I'm planning anything...

Or have acess to anything...

I'm leaving now.

Don't be at 80th and Elm Blvd at 8pm Martian time

Nah, they way to do it is like the Japanese, on the underground, but go biological. it stas warm enough for virus's to breed, and you can infect one train, as people move they will spread it to all the trains, then to the office's then back home, and to the children, they can take it to school. Genocide here we Come.

How exactly would the authorities clamp down?
A) how would they remove all the guns presently in circulation.

b) How would they stop the illegal importation of firearms(assuming they shut down local factories). The authorities cant stop illegal drugs from coming in, how would they stop guns?

c) How would the autorities stop domestic manufacturing given that it doesnt take many tools or much knowledge to make one?
Boo hoo, it's quite difficult. Well then, let's just not bother. Talking of which, it takes an awful lot of resources prosecuting rapists too, so why not legalise it?

Boo hoo, it's quite difficult. Well then, let's just not bother. Talking of which, it takes an awful lot of resources prosecuting rapists too, so why not legalise it?

Sounds good to me, give everyone arms and we will see how many rapes occur.

Sounds good to me, give everyone arms and we will see how many rapes occur.

Loads.
You are forgetting most rapes are done by people known to the victim, which means that they proberbly wouldn't have the weapon to hand, or wish to kill them.

Apart from that, IF I was to set out to rape someone, they would be grabbed, from behind without warning and forced face down on the floor, before I checked them for weapons, or started to rape them. Also, I would pick someone coming out of a club/bar so that thier reaction time was slowed (and thier aim was off).

I don't think many rapists go aroung announcing themselves so you could get your gun ready.

The point that most people missed about Michael Moore's BFC film, wasn't that Americans can get guns so easily, (Other countries have more lenient gun laws but shoot each other less.) it was that they seem to like turning them on each other.

Well, i think that we just need to have harsher punishments for people who do commit even small acts of violence useing guns, i.e. shooting them in the air to celebrate or something.

(by "them" i mean guns.)

The point that most people missed about Michael Moore's BFC film, wasn't that Americans can get guns so easily, (Other countries have more lenient gun laws but shoot each other less.) it was that they seem to like turning them on each other.

not totally true........a very large point of the film was that people could go into walmart and buy bullets....

Well, i think that we just need to have harsher punishments for people who do commit even small acts of violence useing guns, i.e. shooting them in the air to celebrate or something.

(by "them" i mean guns.)

good point!....

i fink guns shoild be banned because to many ppl die .
from the age of 8 chldren can buy fire arms and then shoot them
its loodakrist guns should be banned and only the militry should use them
suicidal misfit :headbang:

Well, the Clinton AWB and Brady bill got through didnt they? Stir up enough panic during the right presidency and you can do all sorts of things.

The assault weapons ban did not prevent anything except bayonet lugs, flash hiders, and folding stocks. The high capacity magazines that had already been produced were legal to possess and sell - so the ban didn't stop ANYTHING.

i fink guns shoild be banned because to many ppl die .
from the age of 8 chldren can buy fire arms and then shoot them
its loodakrist guns should be banned and only the militry should use them
suicidal misfit :headbang:

Children at age 8 can buy guns? I call bullshit on you. Law around here state that one must be 18 to buy a rifle and 21 to buy a handgun. I have herd of parents allowing thier child to use a gun but under very close supervision. When not in use they are locked up.

not totally true........a very large point of the film was that people could go into walmart and buy bullets....

Yeah although that was a sad story about those kids, thats one of the things I don't like about Micheal Moore. He ruins all the good points he makes with shit padding and bent truths.

The trouble with truth, is that the actual event is supported by the why, and that is conjecture, or is open to interpretation.

As with any argument if you make a point that is not independant, both sides can spin it to thiers.

Well, i think that we just need to have harsher punishments for people who do commit even small acts of violence useing guns, i.e. shooting them in the air to celebrate or something.

(by "them" i mean guns.)

We already have those laws. We have extra punishments for committing just about any crime if you also happen to have a gun with you - even if that gun is never fired.

The laws don't seem to change things. Perhaps that's because the majority of gun violence is committed by people who are selling or buying illicit drugs - they are already committing major felonies, and don't care if they commit more.

Stop the war on drugs, and the majority of gun violence in America would stop.

We already have those laws. We have extra punishments for committing just about any crime if you also happen to have a gun with you - even if that gun is never fired.

The laws don't seem to change things. Perhaps that's because the majority of gun violence is committed by people who are selling or buying illicit drugs - they are already committing major felonies, and don't care if they commit more.

Stop the war on drugs, and the majority of gun violence in America would stop.

The 'creation' of gun laws wasnt the point.....'harsher' laws I think was the idea?!...

The 'creation' of gun laws wasnt the point.....'harsher' laws I think was the idea?!...

They keep adding harsher punishments. It doesn't work.

They keep adding harsher punishments. It doesn't work.

I'm no expert but im sure if the laws really clamped down harder than ever before, these sorts of crimes would happen less!.....

Also remembering a chris rock show where he suggested raising the cost of bullets to $5000

"Im gonna kill you man.....when I can afford it!"

I'm no expert but im sure if the laws really clamped down harder than ever before, these sorts of crimes would happen less!.....

Also remembering a chris rock show where he suggested raising the cost of bullets to $5000

"Im gonna kill you man.....when I can afford it!"

Yes, that's a good idea. Take the advice of a comic.

One of the reasons we get really silly gun laws here is that most of the successful ones are written by people who have no idea about firearms.

I make my own projectiles and load my own cartridges from readily available materials.

Most violent crime is not firearm related in the US. And people successfully defend themselves 2.5 million times per year using firearms against felons who are not armed with firearms. Would you condemn them to being victims?

Of course, if guns were less restricted, the parishoners in that church could have defended themselves. So you can see the argument from either side. Personally, I go with permitting freedom, but that's because I am an American with a strong libertarian bent. I can see that those with more socialist "nanny state" mindsets would look to the government to defend them. That probably works ok in some places, but America is populated mostly by people who think you should be able to look after yourself. That's the whole "American dream" that you should be able to make something of yourself, with no help, and no hindrance. No hindrance means letting people own guns to defend themselves, and there are countless examples of situations similar to the one talked about in this thread where no one died, or only the criminal died, because the person or persons being attacked were armed. It's the American way.

Yes, that's a good idea. Take the advice of a comic.

One of the reasons we get really silly gun laws here is that most of the successful ones are written by people who have no idea about firearms.

I make my own projectiles and load my own cartridges from readily available materials.

Most violent crime is not firearm related in the US. And people successfully defend themselves 2.5 million times per year using firearms against felons who are not armed with firearms. Would you condemn them to being victims?

First off I was just mentioning that.....I didnt really mean the president should take chris rocks' advice, but I think you knew that grumpy!

And yes I would expect them to defend themselves without a shotgun like they do in alot of civilised homes in alot of civilised countries!!

First off I was just mentioning that.....I didnt really mean the president should take chris rocks' advice, but I think you knew that grumpy!

And yes I would expect them to defend themselves without a shotgun like they do in alot of civilised homes in alot of civilised countries!!

Can't carry a shotgun in my jacket pocket.

I think he means without guns at all. You know, with like the swiss army knife with the scissors. We know how well that deters muggers. :rolleyes:

Of course, if guns were less restricted, the parishoners in that church could have defended themselves. So you can see the argument from either side. Personally, I go with permitting freedom, but that's because I am an American with a strong libertarian bent. I can see that those with more socialist "nanny state" mindsets would look to the government to defend them. That probably works ok in some places, but America is populated mostly by people who think you should be able to look after yourself. That's the whole "American dream" that you should be able to make something of yourself, with no help, and no hindrance. No hindrance means letting people own guns to defend themselves, and there are countless examples of situations similar to the one talked about in this thread where no one died, or only the criminal died, because the person or persons being attacked were armed. It's the American way.

Constructive answer by the way!

Can't carry a shotgun in my jacket pocket.

Er?

Constructive answer by the way!
Thanks! I try, most of the time, to be constructive and reasoned. It can be tough, as I am sure you realize, in a forum such as this. Sometimes of course, sarcasm gets the better of us all.

Er?
To use a firearm defensively, I have to have it on my person at all times.

As has been the case recently, I am more often accosted when I am not at home.

I can't conceal a shotgun, nor do I wish to carry it around.

My pistol works just as well.

To use a firearm defensively, I have to have it on my person at all times.

As has been the case recently, I am more often accosted when I am not at home.

I can't conceal a shotgun, nor do I wish to carry it around.

My pistol works just as well.

Are you saying that its legal in your country to carry a gun around in public?

Are you saying that its legal in your country to carry a gun around in public?
It is most definitely legal in most places in America.

Are you saying that its legal in your country to carry a gun around in public?
Here in Virginia, you can carry a pistol (not a rifle or shotgun) in the open in public.

You can also get a concealed weapons permit (for pistols) if you are not a felon.

In Vermont, home state of Howard Dean, you don't need a permit for either.

Here in Virginia, you can carry a pistol (not a rifle or shotgun) in the open in public.

You can also get a concealed weapons permit (for pistols) if you are not a felon.

In Vermont, home state of Howard Dean, you don't need a permit for either.


Fuuuuuuck! Ahem, I mean really?

It is most definitely legal in most places in America.

And again, fuuuu.........ok you get my surprised tone!....

Well oddly enough, people wearing guns in holster are only extremely rarely bothered by criminals. I wonder why that is? Seriously though, I think in interpersonal relations, just as in foreign policy, balance of power works better to keep the peace than collective security. We actually had huge debates in this country hundreds of years ago over whether police were even neccessary, since they involved the surrender of some degree of liberty.

Fuuuuuuck! Ahem, I mean really?

Yes. And look at what it has bought the people in Virginia (as opposed to the people in Maryland, who are really and truly fucked):

http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/c...03_Year_End.pdf
http://www.co.fairfax.va.us/ps/police/2003.htm

All census data is from quickfacts.census.gov

Montgomery County, Maryland end of year 2003

Murder 21
Rape 135
Robbery 1004
Aggravated Assault 954

Population 918,881
Median household income, 1999 $71,551
Per capita money income, 1999 $35,684
Persons below poverty, percent, 1999 5.4%


Fairfax County, Maryland end of year 2003

Murder 9
Rape 80
Robbery 540
Aggravated Assault 399

Population 1,000,405
Median household income, 1999 $81,050
Per capita money income, 1999 $36,888
Persons below poverty, percent, 1999 4.5%


Now, let's compare on the basis of crimes per 100,000 people:

Montgomery Fairfax % difference

Murder 2.3 0.9 - 61 less in Fairfax
Rape 14.7 8.0 - 46 less in Fairfax
Robbery 109.3 53 - 52 less in Fairfax
Assault 103.8 39.9 - 62 less in Fairfax


It is illegal to carry a gun in Montgomery County, Maryland.
There are severe restrictions on the type and model of handguns that can be purchased.

It is legal to carry a gun openly in Fairfax County, Virginia.
It is easy to obtain a concealed weapons permit in Fairfax County, Virginia as long as you are not a felon.
The state offers no restrictions on the type and model of handguns that can be purchased.

Well oddly enough, people wearing guns in holster are only extremely rarely bothered by criminals. I wonder why that is? Seriously though, I think in interpersonal relations, just as in foreign policy, balance of power works better to keep the peace than collective security. We actually had huge debates in this country hundreds of years ago over whether police were even neccessary, since they involved the surrender of some degree of liberty.


Sounds almost ludicrous *spelling* now though doesnt it......imagine the how mental certain situations would be without the police....

How exactly would the authorities clamp down?
A) how would they remove all the guns presently in circulation.

b) How would they stop the illegal importation of firearms(assuming they shut down local factories). The authorities cant stop illegal drugs from coming in, how would they stop guns?

c) How would the autorities stop domestic manufacturing given that it doesnt take many tools or much knowledge to make one?

The British government managed to do that.
Well. More or less.

It is legal to carry a gun openly in Fairfax County, Virginia.
It is easy to obtain a concealed weapons permit in Fairfax County, Virginia as long as you are not a felon.
The state offers no restrictions on the type and model of handguns that can be purchased.


I know all that probably sounds like the norm to you but over here, if someone walked down the street with a gun, the reaction would be.....well I dont know but it would definitely be police priority in the area anyway!!...

I know all that probably sounds like the norm to you but over here, if someone walked down the street with a gun, the reaction would be.....well I dont know but it would definitely be police priority in the area anyway!!...

That's why I carry concealed. No one notices.

That, and the felons around here are nervous - they have no idea who in a store might be armed. So they go to Maryland and DC to commit their crimes.

At the risk of sounding like Michael Moore, I'll try and be careful how I phrase this!....

What happened in America to the congregation in that hotel a few days ago just reminded me once again how easy it is to own a gun in America......

Why dont the authorities take note once and for all, and clamp down so that this thing doesnt happen quite so often.....

It just seems that it happens more in America than anywhere else in the world!

Why?....

I'm not saying that guns should definately be legal, but they're outlawed in Britatin and that means that only criminals carry guns!

That's why I carry concealed. No one notices.

That, and the felons around here are nervous - they have no idea who in a store might be armed. So they go to Maryland and DC to commit their crimes.

What if someone thought you were committing a crime and you weren't and someone shot you?

I did live in California for 3 years, but from what I've heard, their gun laws are much stricter than elsewhere in the US!

That's why I carry concealed. No one notices.

That, and the felons around here are nervous - they have no idea who in a store might be armed. So they go to Maryland and DC to commit their crimes.

Dont know whether you heard of this or not, but quite a while ago in England, a farmer woke up to burglers in his house.......he didnt know if his life was in danger or not so he shot one of them (cant remember if it was fatal or not)..........the law in great britain came down on him like a ton of bricks.......they would have crucified him if given the chance....

just shows the difference doesnt it??

I'm not saying that guns should definately be legal, but they're outlawed in Britatin and that means that only criminals carry guns!

I would MAYBE have it so that it was only legal to defend yourself with a gun in your own home!...

i fink guns shoild be banned because to many ppl die .
from the age of 8 chldren can buy fire arms and then shoot them
its loodakrist guns should be banned and only the militry should use them
suicidal misfit :headbang:

Are you serious that kids only have to be 8!?!?!?!?!? Thats horrible! :mad:

What if someone thought you were committing a crime and you weren't and someone shot you?

I did live in California for 3 years, but from what I've heard, their gun laws are much stricter than elsewhere in the US!

Yes, it depends on where you live. Here in Virginia, and 33 other states, you can do as I do.

In California, you have to wait for the police to show up.

If you order a pizza right after you call the police, guess which one will show up first...

That's why I carry concealed. No one notices.

That, and the felons around here are nervous - they have no idea who in a store might be armed. So they go to Maryland and DC to commit their crimes.
Whereas I live in DC, so I'm always looking for improvised weapons when I go into certain areas of town. Just a hint Estradas, if you ever visit America, don't go into northeast DC without a really good reason, and only in broad daylight.

Dont know whether you heard of this or not, but quite a while ago in England, a farmer woke up to burglers in his house.......he didnt know if his life was in danger or not so he shot one of them (cant remember if it was fatal or not)..........the law in great britain came down on him like a ton of bricks.......they would have crucified him if given the chance....

just shows the difference doesnt it??

He had been repeatedly burgled by the same people, but they always got away and the time he shot one, he killed a 16-year-old. The other was caught, but he still is a thief and now the BBC are doing a documentary on the case and the surviving burglar is being paid millions!
I think that if the guy wants to make his point on TV he can but he shouldn't get paid loads for it! Anyway, it's currently quite a major debate.

I agree with those of you who say that it is dangerous to outlaw guns! If we do decide to do this, we need to have harsh punishments for those who are found to have gus, such as 5 years in prison or so because it would be an even more dangerous world if only criminals had weapond! :rolleyes:

Whereas I live in DC, so I'm always looking for improvised weapons when I go into certain areas of town. Just a hint Estradas, if you ever visit America, don't go into northeast DC without a really good reason, and only in broad daylight.

Noted...cheers!..

I would MAYBE have it so that it was only legal to defend yourself with a gun in your own home!...

That's the law in California.

Although concealed weapons can help with some things, what if a child finds one and starts to play with it and shoots himself by mistake. What if the trigor accadentally goes off?!?

The scenario you mention, about someone misinterpreting who a legal firearm carrier is, has never happened to a concealed carry permit holder in recent history (in the past 20 years).

There has been one shooting incident in which the CCW permit holder was charged, but exonerated, and that was in Texas.

The so-called "wild west" result that gun-fearing people postulate never occurs.

As part of getting the permit in Virginia, you get a class in when and how you may use your weapon. You also get a small lecture from the police, on what to do when they show up so you don't get shot.

Police, on a per unit population basis, are involved in more unjustified shootings than concealed carry permit holders. Concealed carry permit holders kill three times as many felons under justified conditions than the police do.

A policeman is more likely to miss than either a felon or a legal permit holder.

It may be because most permit holders are shooters - most police are not - a policeman views shooting as work, and does not practice unless he has to - while I will practice several times a week, firing thousands of rounds per week.

I know that I personally fire more rounds than my county police do - all together - in a single year.

Although concealed weapons can help with some things, what if a child finds one and starts to play with it and shoots himself by mistake. What if the trigor accadentally goes off?!?
A prime example of why teaching people, kids included, about guns, is a great idea. If they know they are dangerous, they won't get hurt. Kids don't go around drinking bleach too often, primarily because a)there are child proof caps on the bottles and b)they are told not to. Unattended weapons should always be secured, and a failure to do so should be considered criminal.

Although concealed weapons can help with some things, what if a child finds one and starts to play with it and shoots himself by mistake. What if the trigor accadentally goes off?!?

God, yes!
You always hear those horrible stories about that sort of thing.
Someone I know in California, when he was little, got a toy gun and pretended to his parents that it was real and that he was going to shoot himself, and they believed him! I guess that it could easily have been real!

I'm not saying that guns should definately be legal, but they're outlawed in Britatin and that means that only criminals carry guns!
What is crime like in England, is there a lot of it?

A prime example of why teaching people, kids included, about guns, is a great idea. If they know they are dangerous, they won't get hurt. Kids don't go around drinking bleach too often, primarily because a)there are child proof caps on the bottles and b)they are told not to. Unattended weapons should always be secured, and a failure to do so should be considered criminal.

I totally agree with you!

What is crime like in England, is there a lot of it?
Yes. Especially now that the police no longer carry guns. You want to see the wild west, check out the dodgy parts of Manchester, or East London.

I know someone whos twin was shot himself with a gun by mistake when he was found the gun at a friends house. :mad:

Although concealed weapons can help with some things, what if a child finds one and starts to play with it and shoots himself by mistake. What if the trigor accadentally goes off?!?

That's not a concealed weapons problem.

That's a problem with the owner. I own firearms AND I have children.

The gun I carry stays on my body.

Others are in the safe.

My children are all familiar with firearms, and how to handle them - or not - as the case may be.

Triggers don't accidentally go off. Someone does the following in order to have an accident:

1. Load the gun.
2. Chamber a round.
3. Point the gun at someone.
4. Make sure the safety is off.
5. Pull the trigger

Stop at any point, and there's no accident.

Accidental shootings of children, while there are several hundred per year, are not as numerous as some might have you believe. One favorite "statistic" is to count all people below the age of 21 as "children", and to count all shootings of them as "accidents".

This has the unfortunate effect of counting young black males involved in drug gang wars. So it looks like "thousands" of "children" having "accidents".

As far as "accidental" shootings go, your local powerplant and its emissions, or your car, or your bathtub, or that plate glass door on your house, are more of a lethal threat than the pistol in your house.

Yes. Especially now that the police no longer carry guns. You want to see the wild west, check out the dodgy parts of Manchester, or East London.

I feel bad that I don't already know much about england, but the police don't carry gund!?!?!?!?! That seems like a horrible idea!!

What is crime like in England, is there a lot of it?

Just like in America, it depends on where you are. In cities, there is more if it. In the past 6 years, I have been burgled once, but that was when I lived in a city, and now I live in a pretty rural area.

I know someone whos twin was shot himself with a gun by mistake when he was found the gun at a friends house. :mad:

He must have been rather unintelligent.

If you don't know how guns work, don't touch one.

If you do know how they work, and they aren't yours, don't touch them.

If it's yours, follow the rules:

Safety is an issue that should concern all firearms owners. Unfortunately there is a lot of hype about safety that totally ignores the real issues in the name of political correctness--that is, blaming something other than one's self when a screw-up occurs.

Before we start our discussion we need to get our terminology straight.

Accident - An unexpected and undesirable event caused by circumstances beyond the control of the participant(s). There are practically no firearms related "accidents" since guns don't go off by themselves nor point themselves at anything.

Misfire - The condition of a cartridge not firing when an attempt to fire it is made. It can be caused by either a defective cartridge or a defective firearm. The term has been frequently misused in the media to indicate a firearms "accident" as in, "His gun misfired and he shot himself."

Negligent Discharge - The unplanned discharge of a firearm caused by a failure to observe the basic safety rules. Firearms related injuries or property damage are due to negligent discharges, not accidents. This is the proper term to use.

Safety - A state of mind or action intended to reduce the risk of personal harm. It also refers to a mechanical device on a firearm intended to lock the firing mechanism to impede discharge.

The Rules of Firearms Safety.

Many shooting organizations promulgate incredibly long lists of safety rules. (I have seen posted lists of up to 20 rules!) They no doubt do this for political correctness, and to avoid litigation based on "You didn't tell me....," or to simply make them look impressive. However, one can insure safety with just four simple rules. (NRA please take note.)

Always remember, safety is a state of mind and not a device!

These four rules, if followed explicitly, will guarantee firearms safety. Memorize them and heed them. Always!

All firearms are loaded. - There are no exceptions. Don't pretend that this is true. Know that it is and handle all firearms accordingly. Do not believe it when someone says: "It isn't loaded."

Never let the muzzle of a firearm point at anything you are not willing to destroy. - If you are not willing to see a bullet hole in it do not allow a firearm's muzzle to point at it. This includes things like your foot, the TV, the refrigerator, the dog, or anything else that would cause general upset if a hole appeared in it.

Keep your finger off the trigger unless your sights are on the target. - Danger abounds if you keep your finger on the trigger when you are not about to shoot. Speed is not gained by prematurely placing your finger on the trigger as bringing a firearm to bear on a target takes more time than it takes to move your finger to the trigger. Negligent discharges would be eliminated if this rule were followed 100% of the time.

Be sure of your target and what is behind it. - Never shoot at sounds or a target you cannot positively identify. Know what is in line with the target and what is behind it (bullets are designed to go through things). Be aware of your surroundings whether on a range, in the woods, or in a potentially lethal conflict.
The fifth, unwritten, but implied rule is: Take nothing for granted. Check everything by sight and touch.

Tragedies could be avoided if everyone involved with firearms followed these rules all the time.

I feel bad that I don't already know much about england, but the police don't carry gund!?!?!?!?! That seems like a horrible idea!!

I guess it makes it harder for them to defend themselves, but to tell the truth, I've never really lived in a place with much crime.

He must have been rather unintelligent.

If you don't know how guns work, don't touch one.

If you do know how they work, and they aren't yours, don't touch them.

If it's yours, follow the rules:

Safety is an issue that should concern all firearms owners. Unfortunately there is a lot of hype about safety that totally ignores the real issues in the name of political correctness--that is, blaming something other than one's self when a screw-up occurs.

Before we start our discussion we need to get our terminology straight.

Accident - An unexpected and undesirable event caused by circumstances beyond the control of the participant(s). There are practically no firearms related "accidents" since guns don't go off by themselves nor point themselves at anything.

Misfire - The condition of a cartridge not firing when an attempt to fire it is made. It can be caused by either a defective cartridge or a defective firearm. The term has been frequently misused in the media to indicate a firearms "accident" as in, "His gun misfired and he shot himself."

Negligent Discharge - The unplanned discharge of a firearm caused by a failure to observe the basic safety rules. Firearms related injuries or property damage are due to negligent discharges, not accidents. This is the proper term to use.

Safety - A state of mind or action intended to reduce the risk of personal harm. It also refers to a mechanical device on a firearm intended to lock the firing mechanism to impede discharge.

The Rules of Firearms Safety.

Many shooting organizations promulgate incredibly long lists of safety rules. (I have seen posted lists of up to 20 rules!) They no doubt do this for political correctness, and to avoid litigation based on "You didn't tell me....," or to simply make them look impressive. However, one can insure safety with just four simple rules. (NRA please take note.)

Always remember, safety is a state of mind and not a device!

These four rules, if followed explicitly, will guarantee firearms safety. Memorize them and heed them. Always!

All firearms are loaded. - There are no exceptions. Don't pretend that this is true. Know that it is and handle all firearms accordingly. Do not believe it when someone says: "It isn't loaded."

Never let the muzzle of a firearm point at anything you are not willing to destroy. - If you are not willing to see a bullet hole in it do not allow a firearm's muzzle to point at it. This includes things like your foot, the TV, the refrigerator, the dog, or anything else that would cause general upset if a hole appeared in it.

Keep your finger off the trigger unless your sights are on the target. - Danger abounds if you keep your finger on the trigger when you are not about to shoot. Speed is not gained by prematurely placing your finger on the trigger as bringing a firearm to bear on a target takes more time than it takes to move your finger to the trigger. Negligent discharges would be eliminated if this rule were followed 100% of the time.

Be sure of your target and what is behind it. - Never shoot at sounds or a target you cannot positively identify. Know what is in line with the target and what is behind it (bullets are designed to go through things). Be aware of your surroundings whether on a range, in the woods, or in a potentially lethal conflict.
The fifth, unwritten, but implied rule is: Take nothing for granted. Check everything by sight and touch.

Tragedies could be avoided if everyone involved with firearms followed these rules all the time.

But sometimes it's all about stopping little kids from getting to the guns in the first place, 'cause you can't really make absolute sure that they'll stick to the rules!

Just a note to all the Europeans and others out there, Whispering Legs is a prime example of the typical American gun owner: knowldgeable, safe, and no threat at all to law-abiding citizens. WL, thanks for your intelligent, well supported defense of a misunderstood topic.

Just a note to all the Europeans and others out there, Whispering Legs is a prime example of the typical American gun owner: knowldgeable, safe, and no threat at all to law-abiding citizens. WL, thanks for your intelligent, well supported defense of a misunderstood topic.

As before, I totally agree!

But sometimes it's all about stopping little kids from getting to the guns in the first place, 'cause you can't really make absolute sure that they'll stick to the rules!

Most firearms accidents are caused directly by adults, upon adults.

You can't keep some people from being stupid. But we still drive cars, and fly planes, and bathe in bathtubs, and smoke cigarettes, and produce power by burning coal, and drink alcohol, etc...

I don't believe that I should be punished, and prevented from owning a tool, just because someone else was completely stupid. On that basis, we could ban the possession of chainsaws.

http://www.theomahachannel.com/news/4017417/detail.html

Most firearms accidents are caused directly by adults, upon adults.

You can't keep some people from being stupid. But we still drive cars, and fly planes, and bathe in bathtubs, and smoke cigarettes, and produce power by burning coal, and drink alcohol, etc...

I don't believe that I should be punished, and prevented from owning a tool, just because someone else was completely stupid. On that basis, we could ban the possession of chainsaws.

http://www.theomahachannel.com/news/4017417/detail.html

I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with you owning firearms, I'm just saying that occasionally there's an accident which cannot be prevented by good advice. I didn't know that most accidents were adults, and I HATE chainsaws! Sorry; I'm pretty naive!

If you take away gun rights there are still more ways to kill people. We, in America, have access to poisons and knives. Not to mention that I know how to make rope stong enough to strangle someone out of papertowels. We also have access to bows, cross bows, hammers, axes, bowling pins, baseball bats, trash bags, denal floss and many of the wild flowers and plants that contain loads and loads of deadly toxins. There is beer bottles, glass shards, combs and such a wide variety run of the mill thing that no one sees as weaponry.
There is a supermarket in my town that carries flowers of sulphur, salt peter, and wonderful bags of carcoal ripe for the bar be que pits. I can get tubing from a hardware store and guess what? Though they may be primative, I can produce firearms.
So even if legislation passes that firearms are outlawed or made much harder to get, There are several more ways to kill a person....
-The Great and Powerful Bob, Dictator of Bobmodeus

If you take away gun rights there are still more ways to kill people. We, in America, have access to poisons and knives. Not to mention that I know how to make rope stong enough to strangle someone out of papertowels. We also have access to bows, cross bows, hammers, axes, bowling pins, baseball bats, trash bags, denal floss and many of the wild flowers and plants that contain loads and loads of deadly toxins. There is beer bottles, glass shards, combs and such a wide variety run of the mill thing that no one sees as weaponry.
There is a supermarket in my town that carries flowers of sulphur, salt peter, and wonderful bags of carcoal ripe for the bar be que pits. I can get tubing from a hardware store and guess what? Though they may be primative, I can produce firearms.
So even if legislation passes that firearms are outlawed or made much harder to get, There are several more ways to kill a person....
-The Great and Powerful Bob, Dictator of Bobmodeus

I accept this; the father of someone I know in California was shot twice through the heart with a crossbow! There have been plenty of stabbings here in Britain, and other things like that, I admit, but guns do seem to be a favourite where available.

The assault weapons ban did not prevent anything except bayonet lugs, flash hiders, and folding stocks. The high capacity magazines that had already been produced were legal to possess and sell - so the ban didn't stop ANYTHING.

I never claimed the awb actually did anything. I was just pointing that the fed govt can at times make laws that are clearly unconstitutional(as in violint states rights).