NationStates Jolt Archive

then how can you class youe self as a christian?
earlier you said that It is written in scripture that if any one fails to live according to the words of Jesus or the apostles, kick them out from among you. Anyone who continues to live in sin even after having declared themselves in christian must be booted from the church and christians are to have nothing to do with them.
Jesus himself stated, "not everyone who calls me lord is christian, but only those who follow my commandments.
How? Because it's important for a professional troll to be able to make up facts and change 'rules' as he goes. I admire his work (as stated earlier).

they should know what they are. who are you to question them. I think they would know themselves better than you would.

Still... NONE of this means anything.

You could have been lied to.

You could be confused.

It is UNLIKELY that you have talked to EVERY soldier currently serving.

And, of course - there is always the possibility that you are lying about the whole thing, and are, in fact, a middle-aged man with bad facial hair, sitting among his Star Wars action figures, in his mom's basement.

Which is WHY I asked for an evidentiary source.

Which YOU have failed to provide. Thus - your argument is invalid.

We are about tolerance. That is why we must rid our society of those people cause they oppose tolerance of any one who disagrees with them and they oppose freedom and they hate America.

Haha... Sounds like America is very intolerant of other people's cultures and their long established ways of life...

Let us just continue on these "crusades", to convert the world to think like another Christian hyprocrite like yourself...

I'm sorry but I am intolerant of people that make up a system of beliefs and force them on other peoples and nations...

Live your life using common sense and don't do to others as you would not have them do to you... Learn from history... Learn from experience... How can one base their life on things they have yet to comprehend or encounter??

How? Because it's important for a professional troll to be able to make up facts and change 'rules' as he goes. I admire his work (as stated earlier).

agreed

These are facts! They're in textbooks! I've been studying this stuff in my AP World History class for the last 7 months!

"...Abu Bakr organized the invasion of Syria. During the campaign of 634, the entire region between Gaza and Caesarea was devastated, four thousand peasant-Christians, Jews, and Samarians...were massacred." (pg. 219)

...between 635 and 642, monasteries were sacked, the monks were killed, and Monophysite Arabs executed or forced to convert. (pg. 219)

In India at the town of Brahminabad between 6 and 16 thousand men of fighting age were massacred. In Punjab temples were burned and leveled to the ground. "In 1010, Mahmud invaded Dawud's kingdom and slaughtered a great number of heretical subjects." (pgs. 221-222)

In 1193, the Muslim general, considering all Buddhist monks idolaters, put most of them to the sword, and destroyed a great library." (pg. 224)

"Why I Am Not a Muslim" by Ibn Warraq

Now what does all this mean. The statements that non-Muslims were forced to convert or killed, that there was a Muslim Holy war before the Crusades, and that Muslims did kill Hindus and Buddhists is true.

With that said, I know there are many Muslims who are good caring people and do not subscribe to what the radicals are preaching. However, just as we can not deny that there were wrongs and atrocities committed by Christians, Muslims should not deny that they were also committed by Muslims. Anyone who committed such atrocities either then or now defiles their religion or should be condemned.

Just like I only know the thousands of people on the installation I am on now, and the thousands that were on the 4 installations I was stationed on before this one.

ever meet a guy called s. vetter?

god no i am 16 and often get into dead end debates on weather the media is controlling people.now considering i have no reason for abstinence and there is a world of fit women out there i would have to be crazy or gay not to have a few urges
having the urges is one thing, but always giving in to them is another.

It takes a man of strength to practice abstinence. But he shall always be plagued by desires.

It is also written that we are not to tolerate persecution for those who stand by and allow it to happen are just as guilty as the perpetrators.

And, the point is?

You were promoting your view that terrorists attacked the US as some move of Islamic jihad.

If THAT is so, the example left by Jesus is that you should LOVE those who hate you, and be secure in the knowledge that their persecution is bringing you closer to heavenly riches.

Instead, you seem to be claiming that you want to kill people.

Haha... Sounds like America is very intolerant of other people's cultures and their long established ways of life...

Let us just continue on these "crusades", to convert the world to think like another Christian hyprocrite like yourself...

I'm sorry but I am intolerant of people that make up a system of beliefs and force them on other peoples and nations...

Live your life using common sense and don't do to others as you would not have them do to you... Learn from history... Learn from experience... How can one base their life on things they have yet to comprehend or encounter??every country has some level of intolerance... America hit theirs ealier because we get the most Shit thown at us. no one can say they are not intolerant... no country can say they are not intollerant. Learn from history... learn from experience... the US did. and if you think otherwise, then you're not learning from history, or from experience... either that or your country had a totally different expericence then the US.

having the urges is one thing, but always giving in to them is another.

It takes a man of strength to practice abstinence. But he shall always be plagued by desires.

did i say i am not a virgin?

having the urges is one thing, but always giving in to them is another.

It takes a man of strength to practice abstinence. But he shall always be plagued by desires.

adulterer! If you think about a woman like that you are commiting adultery!

ever meet a guy called s. vetter?
nope, where was he stationed?

because you are human and all humans are sinners.

if you continue in sin, no christian congregation can accept you unless you stop sinning. Those that do, aren't true christians.

Even though your stance on things as shown on this forum puts your humanity in doubt, I'd be willing to stretch the definition to include you. In that case, how on earth could you possibly argue with your own statements? Obviously, according to your own words, you are no christian.

nope, where was he stationed?

not to sure, hes a family freind. corporal vetter

did i say i am not a virgin?
did I say you weren't? Do I know you?

did I say you weren't? Do I know you?

does anyone care who on here has had sex?

not to sure, hes a family freind. corporal vetter
sucks to be a corporal. kind of like being in limbo. what's he do?

sucks to be a corporal. kind of like being in limbo. what's he do?

hes an armouror i think
his dads an officer and he met my dad on the saratoga

"...Abu Bakr organized the invasion of Syria. During the campaign of 634, the entire region between Gaza and Caesarea was devastated, four thousand peasant-Christians, Jews, and Samarians...were massacred." (pg. 219)

...between 635 and 642, monasteries were sacked, the monks were killed, and Monophysite Arabs executed or forced to convert. (pg. 219)

In India at the town of Brahminabad between 6 and 16 thousand men of fighting age were massacred. In Punjab temples were burned and leveled to the ground. "In 1010, Mahmud invaded Dawud's kingdom and slaughtered a great number of heretical subjects." (pgs. 221-222)

In 1193, the Muslim general, considering all Buddhist monks idolaters, put most of them to the sword, and destroyed a great library." (pg. 224)

"Why I Am Not a Muslim" by Ibn Warraq

Now what does all this mean. The statements that non-Muslims were forced to convert or killed, that there was a Muslim Holy war before the Crusades, and that Muslims did kill Hindus and Buddhists is true.

With that said, I know there are many Muslims who are good caring people and do not subscribe to what the radicals are preaching. However, just as we can not deny that there were wrongs and atrocities committed by Christians, Muslims should not deny that they were also committed by Muslims. Anyone who committed such atrocities either then or now defiles their religion or should be condemned.

Read up on Ibn Warraq. Do some research on who he is.

From everything I read, I do not see any evidence to make me believe that he is a reliable source of information or accreditted in any way. Also, whether correct or not, you are reading all your information out of context.

Good find! :D

nope, where was he stationed?

I think you just walked, both eyes open, straight into the trap.

*Snap*

Whittier-, answer post number 263.

hes an armouror i think
his dads an officer and he met my dad on the saratoga
ah, so he's in the navy?

Whittier-, answer post number 263.I tried to warn you about that... Whittier....

ah, so he's in the navy?

no the saratoga was a troop ship moored in libya i think
any way my dad was a leutenant at the tme and met this vetter fellow who was a u.s army marine officer and they both got pissed and ended up in a fight in some bar in libya or some such place. they still keep in touch and we went to see them last tome we were in the states..they live in the green mountain area i think..

Even though your stance on things as shown on this forum puts your humanity in doubt, I'd be willing to stretch the definition to include you. In that case, how on earth could you possibly argue with your own statements? Obviously, according to your own words, you are no christian.
You misunderstand. I try to live to by them. And for the most part I am successful. But there are weak areas. As long as I recognize that I have those weak areas and work on them, I am a christian.
On the other hand if I were to be like the other people on this forum and say, well I can't control it so that makes it ok for me to do it because I am still a christian justbecause I call myself one and calling myself a christian instead acting like one is more important, that would not make me a christian.

but the church held the power... Kings got their power though the church.

you are ignoring the fact that what ever the truth, the crusades will forever be labled a christian thing... so will the inquisitions... just as Jihads will be forever connotated with Mulsims as well as the person Osama Bin Lauden.

Unfortunatly, there are a lot of people that are ignoring those facts. :)

Whittier as you seem to think the Americans are a shining example to the world as to how to run a country and how to practice tolerance I am going to mention 3 little words






American

Native

Indians


I guess they had WMD as well ;)

no the saratoga was a troop ship moored in libya i think
any way my dad was a leutenant at the tme and met this vetter fellow who was a u.s army marine officer and they both got pissed and ended up in a fight in some bar in libya or some such place. they still keep in touch and we went to see them last tome we were in the states..they live in the green mountain area i think..
how long ago was this?
"army marine officer" it wasn't army officer or marine officer?

275

Whittier as you seem to think the Americans are a shining example to the world as to how to run a country and how to practice tolerance I am going to mention 3 little words






American

Native

Indians


I guess they had WMD as well ;)
just so you know, I am native american. well actually 40% native american.

275
279

how long ago was this?
"army marine officer" it wasn't army officer or marine officer?

quite a while ago 60s i think
and when i say army marine officer you know what i mean the guy was a marine i guess..maybe you can tell me although his son is in the army

Whittier as you seem to think the Americans are a shining example to the world as to how to run a country and how to practice tolerance I am going to mention 3 little words

American

Native

Indians

I guess they had WMD as well ;)

and name a country that doesn't have such black marks on their history page...

Might I remind you, Britian had alot of American Native Indians shipped 'home' as curiosities and slaves... US made restitution... did the Brittish?

quite a while ago 60s i think
and when i say army marine officer you know what i mean the guy was a marine i guess..maybe you can tell me although his son is in the army
well, if I'm right that was before Qadafy and while we were still allied with libya.

well, if I'm right that was before Qadafy and while we were still allied with libya.

yep my dad was stationed there and then somewhare out in the far east and nearly went to nam (he was going to volunteer for the australlian army just before nam started)

and name a country that doesn't have such black marks on their history page...

Might I remind you, Britian had alot of American Native Indians shipped 'home' as curiosities and slaves... US made restitution... did the Brittish?
actually they did. they tried to give the indians in north america autonomy and that is why when the colonists won the revolution, they demanded and got control of what was then the western US.

You misunderstand. I try to live to by them. And for the most part I am successful. But there are weak areas. As long as I recognize that I have those weak areas and work on them, I am a christian.
On the other hand if I were to be like the other people on this forum and say, well I can't control it so that makes it ok for me to do it because I am still a christian justbecause I call myself one and calling myself a christian instead acting like one is more important, that would not make me a christian.

This is the finest proof of your own need to be right you have posted so far. Just as you (NOW) claim that admitting to be a sinner is one of the main tenets of being a Christian, I believe that your first step to being a truly open and tolerant person is to admit that you have been hypocritical in your arguments and resort to saying blatant lies in order to 'prove' your points.


I am finished with this. Being opinionated is one thing, being a tool is another. Farewell, Whittier. I just hope you see the error in your ways before it is too late.

and name a country that doesn't have such black marks on their history page...

Might I remind you, Britian had alot of American Native Indians shipped 'home' as curiosities and slaves... US made restitution... did the Brittish?

Interesting parallel. A few hundreds of kidnapped 'curios', versus Manifest Destiny, as a policy of deliberate genocide.

Your case might not be quite as strong as you think.

and name a country that doesn't have such black marks on their history page...



that was actually the point I was making

oh and just because I live in the UK doesnt make me a brit so knocking the brits wont upset me ;)

This is the finest proof of your own need to be right you have posted so far. Just as you (NOW) claim that admitting to be a sinner is one of the main tenets of being a Christian, I believe that your first step to being a truly open and tolerant person is to admit that you have been hypocritical in your arguments and resort to saying blatant lies in order to 'prove' your points.


I am finished with this. Being opinionated is one thing, being a tool is another. Farewell, Whittier. I just hope you see the error in your ways before it is too late.
what I have stated is based in fact. Those who who have stated otherwise, have merely taken from the democratic party's antiamerican book.

that was actually the point I was making

oh and just because I live in the UK doesnt make me a brit so knocking the brits wont upset me ;)

there is no reason to nock us anyway

there is no reason to nock us anyway

yes there is. We are snooty and conceited and crippling poor at all sporting events, ESPECIALLY the ones we invented.

yes there is. We are snooty and conceited and crippling poor at all sporting events, ESPECIALLY the ones we invented.

we are good at fencing, archery, rugby
and being "snooty" should be expected of us

286

there is no reason to nock us anyway

well lets face it the Brits havent got a clean copy book as far as history goes but then neither have any of the nations that I have descended from so I cant make a claim for perfection - in fact I cant think of one country that hasnt got a nasty little genocidal or atrocity hidden away in its annuals of history so maybe we are ALL being hypocritical here ;)

thats for a days entertainment btw Whittier I have been wetting myself laughing everytime I came into this thread :P

well lets face it the Brits havent got a clean copy book as far as history goes but then neither have any of the nations that I have descended from so I cant make a claim for perfection - in fact I cant think of one country that hasnt got a nasty little genocidal or atrocity hidden away in its annuals of history so maybe we are ALL being hypocritical here ;)

thats for a days entertainment btw Whittier I have been wetting myself laughing everytime I came into this thread :P

we didnt do a terrible job at it though i mean we did no better than say america but we had a biggerr empire than the romans..thats something good..i think

From everything I read, I do not see any evidence to make me believe that he is a reliable source of information or accreditted in any way. Also, whether correct or not, you are reading all your information out of context.

No, I did not quote him out of context. Additionally, however you feel about Mr. Warraq, he has cited many credible sources in his book. Additionally, "Islam Unveiled" by Robert Spencer supports much of what Warraq says.

In his book, Spencer talks about the Christian and Muslum Crusades in chapter 8. "Nonetheless, it is undeniable that Muslims won these lands by conquest and, in obedience to the word of the Qur'an and the Prophet, put to the sword the infidels therein who refused to submit to the new Islamic regime." (pg 134)

By the way, the reason I put references in is so people can look them up, if they desire, and see that they were not taken out of context.


Again, both Christianity and Islam do not have a sterling past. We should understand what happened in the past so we do not repeat it now or in the future.

we didnt do a terrible job at it though i mean we did no better than say america but we had a biggerr empire than the romans..thats something good..i thinkLOL
OHHHH so now we're whipping em out and comparing sizes eh? :D

The one thing I will give the Brits... they knew their limits... they scaled back their empire before it collapsed. America took part in alot of wars but really, we didn't hold on to any real estate... and if/when that country wants us out... we leave without a fuss... errr... ok without a war.

we didnt do a terrible job at it though i mean we did no better than say america but we had a biggerr empire than the romans..thats something good..i think


heeheehee dont make me put my devils advocate cloak on ;)

no the saratoga was a troop ship moored in libya i think
any way my dad was a leutenant at the tme and met this vetter fellow who was a u.s army marine officer and they both got pissed and ended up in a fight in some bar in libya or some such place. they still keep in touch and we went to see them last tome we were in the states..they live in the green mountain area i think..

Ahem! First of all there is no such thing as a "U.S. Army Marine," he was either Army or Marine. Secondly, if the ship was in port in Libya it must have been a very long time ago as or very reciently US Naval have not visited Lybian ports for a very long time. Third, I do beleive the USS Saratoga was an aircraft carrier, but I'm to lazy to look it up right now.

Ahem! First of all there is no such thing as a "U.S. Army Marine," he was either Army or Marine. Secondly, if the ship was in port in Libya it must have been a very long time ago as or very reciently US Naval have not visited Lybian ports for a very long time. Third, I do beleive the USS Saratoga was an aircraft carrier, but I'm to lazy to look it up right now.

your about an hour behind. Read the thread before spouting off.

275

Damn! You set a trap for him and I fell in. :headbang: :D

Ahem! First of all there is no such thing as a "U.S. Army Marine," he was either Army or Marine. Secondly, if the ship was in port in Libya it must have been a very long time ago as or very reciently US Naval have not visited Lybian ports for a very long time. Third, I do beleive the USS Saratoga was an aircraft carrier, but I'm to lazy to look it up right now.nah... the first Saratoga was a flagship... during the revolution that is...

and name a country that doesn't have such black marks on their history page...

Might I remind you, Britian had alot of American Native Indians shipped 'home' as curiosities and slaves... US made restitution... did the Brittish?

We (US) made restitution to Native Americans? When? What did we give them?

Will read it later

We (US) made restitution to Native Americans? When? What did we give them?what else... their own nation and money of course... It was awhile back but the Feds set aside several millions of dollars to give to the NAI Nation. as well as the right to govern/police themselves.

your about an hour behind. Read the thread before spouting off.

Be nice, us old people are slow. :D :fluffle:

Be nice, us old people are slow. :D :fluffle:[wheezing voice] yeah you... young whippersnapers....

The terrorists do not care if they "hurt" America or not.

The 9-11 attack was not meant as a part of a strategy to overwhelm America and destroy it. (If such an attack occurs you will know it by the massive use of ICBM multiple warhead nuclear weapons, which as I recall were absent on 9-11.) The 9-11 attack was made by Al Quaeda and followed by a strongly worded request that America should take it's troops out of Saudi Arabia.

America subsequently has closed down all of it's Saudi bases.

The terrorists count this attack as a victory, as proof that if as little as 3000 Americans die then the American President will make concessions. In one more year (when 3000 Americans will have died in Iraq) then the terrorists will be expecting America to concede some more.

wow. uh. flamewars, anyone?

but i'll take the bait all the same.

Being tolerant includes tolerating intolerance. We don't expect every person in this country to be tolerant of everything or be unbiased in every way, but we respect their beliefs no matter what they are. If they believe that the white man is evil, that only black people cause crime, that the New York Times is run by the same seven communist black jews that control the world's economy, we allow them to say what they want. The only behavior the United States outlaws (for the most part) is behavior that is harmful to others. For instance, believing that all whites would be better off dead is allowable, while trying to kill all whites is not.

Islam is far more tolerant than many, many religions out there, including (IMO) Christianity. In any case, your intolerance of their alleged intolerance isn't justified. At all.
Did you mean to say, 'we respect their right to their believe what they will, no matter what they are.'?

The fact is that the Iraq war was based on mistaken intelligence. That's not debateable, unless you ignore what we've learned since then. ...
Addressing that issue of poor intelligence and your earlier claim that all such mistakes are prosecuted, who was prosecuted for a mistaken war?

Addressing that issue of poor intelligence and your earlier claim that all such mistakes are prosecuted, who was prosecuted for a mistaken war?
If I told you that, I would have to kill you.

What's funny is that people don't seem to realise that the democrats are a conservative party as well. Fuckin' hell, they're hardly different from the Republicans. The Republicans may be more out there, but that doesn't mean the Dem's are "dangerous lefties" or whatever GW called them.

And neoliberalism is an inherently conservative platform.

1. Before the missile was launched there was no one there. After the airraid sirens go off, women and children are herded at gunpoint to the places the govt. knows would be targeted.

I think it has been pointed out that there was no power to have air raid sirens going off. And besides, radar networks, the only reliable means of determining where a missile is going, are usually among the first targets to go BEFORE major airstrikes. So that means that there must be people who can see the future among the terrorists because they either have to be that or be told where and when the missle is going to land. Honestly, you need to use that grey matter in your head rather than saying stuff like this.

Thinking goes a long way. Propoganda goes down the drain.

2. You can't have that proof since its top secret due to being a matter of national security.

And somehow since its a matter of top secret national security you know it happened? That must mean that national security services are sloppy enough to the point where anyone can walk in and take this kind of information out of their archives, which means you should have proof. Or that your giving me the age old, 'its true because I say it is'. Sorry, I'm not that gullible.

3. The US supported the Mujahadeen, not the Taliban. The Taliban were and are a product of Pakistani intervention in Afghan internal affairs.

And the US had no hand in Afghan internal affairs? Its sad that you believe the US government is clean in this matter. Or maybe its funny. Because its blind faith.

4. There are media networks that betray him in positive light? Funny, I haven't seen any. That's why most of the nation's most famous newsanchors had to resign recently. Cause they were so biased against Bush that all the reports on the election and the war this year were based on lies.

Well then, you probably ignore republican news networks then. And if a reporter must resign over lies reported on tv, what about a President who starts a war over a falsehood. Shouldn't he be held to a higher responsibility then hmmmm? Or perhaps you think being President is being emperor.

Well, I don't think the views he expressed are very representative of those of the British people at large.

And yours are? Prove it. I dare you.


The Iraq war is not at debate. Its history. You people need to stop whining about it. You can't go back and change history. You can only learn from it.

You can't change history, true. But there is accountability. Otherwise the man who shot the grocer walks away scot free with the excuse, 'what? It happened in the past, its history'

And technically, the war isn't over. It just went to insurgency. Unless all those bombings were actually fireworks of course. And the daily shootings are people being hit by corks flying out of champagne bottles. [/sarcasm]

And I note that you did not reply to my point of whether you were actually in Iraq or not. If you fail to answer that, I will take it to be that you never went there, and thus are among the least qualified people to say what they feel. Of course I admit that since I have not been to Iraq myself, I am not better qualified either. But neither would you be. Are you brave enough to face that?

And if you did serve in Iraq. Prove it.

I think it has been pointed out that there was no power to have air raid sirens going off. And besides, radar networks, the only reliable means of determining where a missile is going, are usually among the first targets to go BEFORE major airstrikes. So that means that there must be people who can see the future among the terrorists because they either have to be that or be told where and when the missle is going to land. Honestly, you need to use that grey matter in your head rather than saying stuff like this.

Thinking goes a long way. Propoganda goes down the drain.



And somehow since its a matter of top secret national security you know it happened? That must mean that national security services are sloppy enough to the point where anyone can walk in and take this kind of information out of their archives, which means you should have proof. Or that your giving me the age old, 'its true because I say it is'. Sorry, I'm not that gullible.



And the US had no hand in Afghan internal affairs? Its sad that you believe the US government is clean in this matter. Or maybe its funny. Because its blind faith.



Well then, you probably ignore republican news networks then. And if a reporter must resign over lies reported on tv, what about a President who starts a war over a falsehood. Shouldn't he be held to a higher responsibility then hmmmm? Or perhaps you think being President is being emperor.



And yours are? Prove it. I dare you.




You can't change history, true. But there is accountability. Otherwise the man who shot the grocer walks away scot free with the excuse, 'what? It happened in the past, its history'

And technically, the war isn't over. It just went to insurgency. Unless all those bombings were actually fireworks of course. And the daily shootings are people being hit by corks flying out of champagne bottles. [/sarcasm]

And I note that you did not reply to my point of whether you were actually in Iraq or not. If you fail to answer that, I will take it to be that you never went there, and thus are among the least qualified people to say what they feel. Of course I admit that since I have not been to Iraq myself, I am not better qualified either. But neither would you be. Are you brave enough to face that?

And if you did serve in Iraq. Prove it.

I'm in a position to know.

Unlike you, most of the world does not think Bush is a war criminal. Those people who do think of Bush as a criminal have a lot of screws missing from their brains.

at least the USA didnt have decades of being randomly bombed by the IRA (funded by some of those lovely people in the USA via NORAID)

the UK didnt declare war either because of the IRA - we made PEACE with them

thats the way forward not bombing the hell out of another country imo
How do you make peace with someone who won't stop fighting until you submit to their religion? Until you live under sharia law? Answer: You don't. You kill them and spread ideas that deny them support and recruits from their people.

I'm in a position to know.

Unlike you, most of the world does not think Bush is a war criminal. Those people who do think of Bush as a criminal have a lot of screws missing from their brains.


And i suppose you have all the answers ?

so what your saying is that your intolerant with intolerant people. How very tolerant you are :rolleyes:
This brings up a question. How tolerant must one be? Must one tolerate those who support violence to impose sharia law? Must one tolerate murderers? I say no. Tolerance extends only to those who advance their agenda through peaceful means. That means we must tolerate those who pass out flyers and protest for change, but not those who blow up buildings.

wrong... the US had property bombed at least once a year by foreign entities (not just the IRA)... and when we do "make peace" with them... we're accused of funding/supporting them.Eh?
When did the US have civilian casualties at home from terrorist bombings? Was this over a period of twenty years, did children, women and inocent civilians get murdered, did you soldiers get dragged from cars in the US and tortured to death? Did one of your supposed allies let organisation collect money for terrorist groups working against the elected gov? Did they allow bank accounts to be set up by the terror groups, did they allows the transfer of arms and training? No didn;t think so. And when it happens to you once suddenly it comes into focus. You cannot accept terrorism!

can i ask whats the difference between freedom fighting and terrism? america is saying stuff about them killing many of the american peoples but what about there smart bombs that are sposed to hit there target every time but seemed to miss to many times. what about the thousands of cilvillians that these "smart bombs" have killed. And as for terrism it the only way small countries without millions of dollars to spend on nukes can try and voice there opinions. Seriously there is no terrism only a fear that the media is trying to put out so george bush can keep in presidency for another 4 years.
No weapon is perfect. The fact is that without smart weapons we would have had to completely level cities and villages in Afghanistan and Iraq to accomplish our objectives. Remember Dresden? Remember the firebombing of Japanese cities? Remember flights of dozens of high altitude bombers carpetbombing cities in WWII? We can accomplish our missions without resorting to such destruction now. Do you really beleive the body count is the same now as it would have been back then?

No weapon is perfect. The fact is that without smart weapons we would have had to completely level cities and villages in Afghanistan and Iraq to accomplish our objectives. Remember Dresden? Remember the firebombing of Japanese cities? Remember flights of dozens of high altitude bombers carpetbombing cities in WWII? We can accomplish our missions without resorting to such destruction now. Do you really beleive the body count is the same now as it would have been back then?

So a body count is acceptable because it is small compared to past wars? 100,000 dead people are okay, because it would have been double that number twenty years ago?

I can murder some random guy I meet on the street, because, after all, it's not like I'm killing off dozens of people here. Who'd notice the difference?

Please tell me you're joking.

Ein Deutscher']Typically American poem. And you wonder why so much of the world hates the US. *shakes head* :rolleyes:
Because of bad poetry? Maybe we could send some Walt Whitman or Robert Frost poems out to the people who hate us.

Liberals are intolerant?

I'm sorry, but who goes about beating gay boys to death for being gay? Sure as shit isn't a pack of liberals.
Militant Islamists like the Taliban?

And the democratic party and its allied antiamerican hate groups aren't?
The democrats are an anti-American hate group? Has Homeland Defense been notified?

Just as Usama bin Ladin isn't a true muslim.
He's a true muslim. The people who blow up abortion clinics are true christians. Religion is fucked. Case closed.

Read up on Ibn Warraq. Do some research on who he is.

From everything I read, I do not see any evidence to make me believe that he is a reliable source of information or accreditted in any way. Also, whether correct or not, you are reading all your information out of context.
Dude, Islam's a war religion. So is Christianity. So is Judaism. They are religions who developed during times of upheaval and violence and they internalized the warrior ethic of their times. Christianity and Judaism have started to grow out of it. Islam may learn from the current period of war that it's future lies in peace.

The terrorists do not care if they "hurt" America or not.

The 9-11 attack was not meant as a part of a strategy to overwhelm America and destroy it. (If such an attack occurs you will know it by the massive use of ICBM multiple warhead nuclear weapons, which as I recall were absent on 9-11.) The 9-11 attack was made by Al Quaeda and followed by a strongly worded request that America should take it's troops out of Saudi Arabia.

America subsequently has closed down all of it's Saudi bases.

The terrorists count this attack as a victory, as proof that if as little as 3000 Americans die then the American President will make concessions. In one more year (when 3000 Americans will have died in Iraq) then the terrorists will be expecting America to concede some more.
Their ultimate goal is to remove US money and influence in the middle east so they can establish a sharia nation with control over much of the world's oil and use their wealth and power to take over more territory. They eventually beleive that all the world will be united in their version of Islam, and are willing to use violence to achieve that.

So a body count is acceptable because it is small compared to past wars? 100,000 dead people are okay, because it would have been double that number twenty years ago?

I can murder some random guy I meet on the street, because, after all, it's not like I'm killing off dozens of people here. Who'd notice the difference?

Please tell me you're joking.
If one is going to fight a war you have to expect some civilian deaths. Afghanistan was a necessary war. We should get some credit for trying to keep civilian deaths low.

No, I did not quote him out of context. Additionally, however you feel about Mr. Warraq, he has cited many credible sources in his book. Additionally, "Islam Unveiled" by Robert Spencer supports much of what Warraq says.

In his book, Spencer talks about the Christian and Muslum Crusades in chapter 8. "Nonetheless, it is undeniable that Muslims won these lands by conquest and, in obedience to the word of the Qur'an and the Prophet, put to the sword the infidels therein who refused to submit to the new Islamic regime." (pg 134)

By the way, the reason I put references in is so people can look them up, if they desire, and see that they were not taken out of context.


Again, both Christianity and Islam do not have a sterling past. We should understand what happened in the past so we do not repeat it now or in the future.

Not to question this particular source... I haven't read this one... but just on general principles: I have read a number of books that have implied there was no attempt at genocide in WW2 Germany.

Just because something is written in a book, or even in a couple of books... doesn't make it truth.

Because of bad poetry? Maybe we could send some Walt Whitman or Robert Frost poems out to the people who hate us.

Yay for Robert Frost.

Yay for Robert Frost.

Seconded.

Anyone who classifies Robert Frost as "bad poetry" is very, very misguided. And that has nothing at all to do with his nationality or religion.

So a body count is acceptable because it is small compared to past wars? 100,000 dead people are okay, because it would have been double that number twenty years ago?

I can murder some random guy I meet on the street, because, after all, it's not like I'm killing off dozens of people here. Who'd notice the difference?

Please tell me you're joking.
You do realize the difference in killing when you are at war and killing just to murder? There is a huge difference, and I really resent you comparing me to murderers.

Seconded.

Anyone who classifies Robert Frost as "bad poetry" is very, very misguided. And that has nothing at all to do with his nationality or religion.

And, let's be serious... the poem in the opening post is NO Frost...

You do realize the difference in killing when you are at war and killing just to murder? There is a huge difference, and I really resent you comparing me to murderers.
And, I'm sure any 'victims' you might have had felt exactly the same way... right?

They lay there bleeding on the floor, their last words... "Thank GOD this is war, or i'd be REALLY miffed at getting shot down in cold blood..."

Their ultimate goal is to remove US money and influence in the middle east so they can establish a sharia nation with control over much of the world's oil and use their wealth and power to take over more territory. They eventually beleive that all the world will be united in their version of Islam, and are willing to use violence to achieve that.
that is exactly what they want. Total world domination. The intelligence community should have seen this back in 96 when Bin Laden and the Taliban started making plans and supporting violent islamic based wars in India, East Timor, North Africa, Chechnya and in the balkans. The sectarian violence between the muslims and the other two factions was spurred on by Al Qaeda whose operatives were trying to turn Bosnia into a Sharia state. When that failed, they tried to do it in Kosovo. But in Kosovo they pretty much almost succeeded because Clinton was helping them.

And, I'm sure any 'victims' you might have had felt exactly the same way... right?

They lay there bleeding on the floor, their last words... "Thank GOD this is war, or i'd be REALLY miffed at getting shot down in cold blood..."
I'm sorry you think it is in cold blood, but when they have a weapon, knife, or grenade in their hand, I have no choice but to kill them. In war, its kill or be killed. And if I see someone approaching me with AK or who looks like they got bombs under their clothes, you better believe I'm going to kill them before they can get close to me. And if you think that is killing in cold blood, I think you are mental.

I'm sorry you think it is in cold blood, but when they have a weapon, knife, or grenade in their hand, I have no choice but to kill them. In war, its kill or be killed. And if I see someone approaching me with AK or who looks like they got bombs under their clothes, you better believe I'm going to kill them before they can get close to me. And if you think that is killing in cold blood, I think you are mental.

I don't really care what you think... I'm not the one invading someone else's country, and killing them because I 'THINK' they look like they might be armed...

Their ultimate goal is to remove US money and influence in the middle east so they can establish a sharia nation with control over much of the world's oil and use their wealth and power to take over more territory.

Who needs to remove US money or influence?
Saudia Arabia = teh win??!?!?slash!1!1?shift+one?!

Who needs to remove US money or influence?
Saudia Arabia = teh win??!?!?slash!1!1?shift+one?!
?

We are about tolerance. That is why we must rid our society of those people cause they oppose tolerance of any one who disagrees with them and they oppose freedom and they hate America.
You just contradicted yourself big time. :eek:

We are about tolerance. That is why we must rid our society of those people cause they oppose tolerance of any one who disagrees with them and they oppose freedom and they hate America.

Here come the American Far right Christian fuckwits,

quick take them down

:sniper:
Bang, thats one, Bang thats two.

I don't really care what you think... I'm not the one invading someone else's country, and killing them because I 'THINK' they look like they might be armed...
If people like you had their way, there would be no United States and every American would be dead or slaves under an foreign evil tyrant.

You just contradicted yourself big time. :eek:
There is nothing noble about tolerating intolerance.
Tolerating intolerance leads to more intolerance which leads to things like genocide, holy wars, and terrorism and deaths of innocent people. Tolerance only goes so far. Neither in secular nor sacred scriptures (of any religion) will you find a single page where it says we should tolerate evil. In fact, everywhere you read, regardless of the sectarian nature of the writing, you will find it written, "Do not tolerate evil".
And the fact is, when you tolerate evil people, you tolerate evil and then in that event, you become evil yourself, because you tolerate it and don't seek to oppose or destroy it.

Here come the American Far right Christian fuckwits,

quick take them down

:sniper:
Bang, thats one, Bang thats two.
see post 344.

..And if I see someone approaching me ...who looks like they got bombs under their clothes, you better believe I'm going to kill them before they can get close to me.under his Coat...maybe bombs...maybe ass bleeding BigMacs....

Better not take any chances...

under his Coat...maybe bombs...maybe ass bleeding BigMacs....

Better not take any chances...They don't have big macs in Afghanistan or Iraq.
Have you ever been in a fire fight against terrorists? NO? What the fuck gives you the right to say whether I am right or wrong? According to the moral relativity you seem to be espousing, we should just let them kill innocent people or let them kill us, because according to their view it is ok to do so.
Moral relativity leads to stuff like the holocaust. Using your argument, since there was no proof of the holocaust before 1945, that means it never happened until 1945 when US troops arrived and actually saw the concentration camps.

What the fuck gives you the right to say whether I am right or wrong?
Freedom of Speech...

and THE INTERNET (True Land of the free).

<<<You just have been educated>>>

They don't have big macs in Afghanistan or Iraq.


Nor do they have them in Norway or Luxembourg. Your point being?

Nice poem.

I'm in a position to know.

Unlike you, most of the world does not think Bush is a war criminal. Those people who do think of Bush as a criminal have a lot of screws missing from their brains.

And I'm in a position to declare you mentally unsound.

Where does that leave us?

Proof. Or maybe the word is invisible to you?

But in either case, you obviously cannot prove anything.

Goodbye person of unsound mind.

And I'm in a position to declare you mentally unsound.

Where does that leave us?

Proof. Or maybe the word is invisible to you?

But in either case, you obviously cannot prove anything.

Goodbye person of unsound mind.
typical liberal pot smoking hippie.

If people like you had their way, there would be no United States and every American would be dead or slaves under an foreign evil tyrant.

To dream the impossible dream. . . My vote for evil tyrant to rule the oppresed mobs of downtrodden americans is our recently retired canadian prime minister. If, and I stress if because on the internet you never know, you were ever in a firefight how did you avoid getting shot with a mouth as big and a brain as small as yours? To use my personal favorite FARK cliche-get a brain moran.

Using your argument, since there was no proof of the holocaust before 1945, that means it never happened until 1945 when US troops arrived and actually saw the concentration camps.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but wasn't the first of the death camps to be liberated Auschwitz/Birkenau, and wasn't it liberated by the Soviet Union, rather than the American forces?

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but wasn't the first of the death camps to be liberated Auschwitz/Birkenau, and wasn't it liberated by the Soviet Union, rather than the American forces?
That's not the point. The point was this fellow was saying that if he didn't see with his own eyes or see it on MTV, it never happened.

Nor do they have them in Norway or Luxembourg. Your point being?Err... nothing... no point...
























[sends email to MacD's about areas for more franchises.]

Freedom of Speech...

and THE INTERNET (True Land of the free).

<<<You just have been educated>>>Nope... not Free... paying for a subscription/service?

also, some countries have serious regulations/low bandwith so they are severly limited as to what they can do.

Then there are the various Mods and Admins...

and the law enforcement groups monitoring the net... not really that free...

yes america is a state of mind :rolleyes: so u can never defend it but hey so is terrorism but we still try to fight that.

yes america is a state of mind :rolleyes: so u can never defend it but hey so is terrorism but we still try to fight that.
Yeah! The terrorist spirit will never be crushed! We will destroy their buidings, kill their people, and criticise their viewpoints, but the terrorist dream can never be vanquished!

i'm just saying its like fighting communism, racism, factism, or any other ism out there, if people belive in it, u can never fight it b/c it is the way people think, so it turns to the way people act, so a war on terrorism, or a war on america is just a waste of time for both sides, maybe if we all found something we all hated and killed that then maybe we could all get alone

i'm just saying its like fighting communism, racism, factism, or any other ism out there, if people belive in it, u can never fight it b/c it is the way people think, so it turns to the way people act, so a war on terrorism, or a war on america is just a waste of time for both sides, maybe if we all found something we all hated and killed that then maybe we could all get alone
So was I, perhaps it didn't come accross that well (mental note, be less obtuse in future).

So was I, perhaps it didn't come accross that well (mental note, be less obtuse in future).

sorry my friend its just i'm tired and all these words are starting to loose the meaning, i think i'm going to hit the hay.

There is nothing noble about tolerating intolerance.
Tolerating intolerance leads to more intolerance which leads to things like genocide, holy wars, and terrorism and deaths of innocent people. Tolerance only goes so far. Neither in secular nor sacred scriptures (of any religion) will you find a single page where it says we should tolerate evil. In fact, everywhere you read, regardless of the sectarian nature of the writing, you will find it written, "Do not tolerate evil".
And the fact is, when you tolerate evil people, you tolerate evil and then in that event, you become evil yourself, because you tolerate it and don't seek to oppose or destroy it.

Okay, this has to be a clever little joke. No one is really this full of themselves.

yes america is a state of mind :rolleyes: so u can never defend it but hey so is terrorism but we still try to fight that.Why not... we're fighting Discrimination, why not and let's conqure that state and make it offically our 51st one.


After which we can go after the State of Denial,

typical liberal pot smoking hippie.
Now I suppose that you would want to take down "liberal pot smoking hippies" as well, since it appears that you have no "tolerance" for them either?

Okay, this has to be a clever little joke. No one is really this full of themselves.
Apparently someone is?

If people like you had their way, there would be no United States and every American would be dead or slaves under an foreign evil tyrant.

People like me? And what sort of people am I?

Also - I don't see that it is the US being invaded here.

Correct me if I'm wrong... but I thought that little blobby patch next to Iran was "Iraq"... surely, if ANYONE is 'dead' under a 'foreign tyrant'... the Iraqi people have a better claim than the US?

They don't have big macs in Afghanistan or Iraq.
Have you ever been in a fire fight against terrorists? NO? What the fuck gives you the right to say whether I am right or wrong? According to the moral relativity you seem to be espousing, we should just let them kill innocent people or let them kill us, because according to their view it is ok to do so.
Moral relativity leads to stuff like the holocaust. Using your argument, since there was no proof of the holocaust before 1945, that means it never happened until 1945 when US troops arrived and actually saw the concentration camps.

Strange, isn't it... there wasn't a 'terrorist' problem IN Iraq, UNTIL the US put troops there.

Now, there seem to be 'terrorists' all over Iraq?

Wait - these terrorists... aren't they protecting their sovereign nation against an aggressive foreign power? Just like the fledgling US did to the Brits?

You chose to be in a foreign nation under a banner of WAR... it is hardly surprising that SOME of the residents of that nation might object.

But - that doesn't give you license to shoot people because you THINK they LOOK dangerous.

That's not the point. The point was this fellow was saying that if he didn't see with his own eyes or see it on MTV, it never happened.

Eh? Explain to me how you get that from his three posts in this thread:


:confused:

and

under his Coat...maybe bombs...maybe ass bleeding BigMacs....

Better not take any chances...

and

Freedom of Speech...

and THE INTERNET (True Land of the free).

<<<You just have been educated>>>

It seems to me like you're prepared to not only present a very shaky/edited version of history in your arguments, but also to employ them against counter arguments that were never actually made.

Nothing like attacking a strawman with an imaginary pitchfork is there?

i'm just saying its like fighting communism, racism, factism, or any other ism out there, if people belive in it, u can never fight it b/c it is the way people think, so it turns to the way people act, so a war on terrorism, or a war on america is just a waste of time for both sides, maybe if we all found something we all hated and killed that then maybe we could all get alone

This is why the neo-cons have invented the idea of "America under Threat" and peddled it to politicians and citizens alike since the 1950s. Leo Strauss advised his students, many of whom are now powerful neocons, to create a myth of the Great American Nation bound up with Christianity, fighting for freedom in the world. It was his way of giving the american people something to have in common, believe in common, to motivate them to fight other ideologies.

He explicitly stated over and over that the point of these myths isn't to represent fact, they don't, they are just made up. And the runling elite aren't intended to believe them either.

Just so long as a sufficient number of the american people believe them, and are inspired to write dumbass poems and vote lots of money for defence etc.

OMFG!
You, Whittier, are one of the dumbest people I've ever heard. (believe me, i've meet my share). It's people like you that make them hate us.

Strange, isn't it... there wasn't a 'terrorist' problem IN Iraq, UNTIL the US put troops there.

Now, there seem to be 'terrorists' all over Iraq?

Wait - these terrorists... aren't they protecting their sovereign nation against an aggressive foreign power? Just like the fledgling US did to the Brits?

You chose to be in a foreign nation under a banner of WAR... it is hardly surprising that SOME of the residents of that nation might object.

But - that doesn't give you license to shoot people because you THINK they LOOK dangerous.
They're not iraqi terrorists, they're foriegners invading Iraq with the intent to impose a foreign sharia government on the people there.
We on theother hand, have already given them their government back. The terrorists, who are not Iraqis, seek to take it away.

They're not iraqi terrorists, they're foriegners invading Iraq with the intent to impose a foreign sharia government on the people there.
We on theother hand, have already given them their government back. The terrorists, who are not Iraqis, seek to take it away.

So... you ID the corpses?

Since, you have just claimed that all the people you shoot at are foreigners... you must be able to back that claim up, right?

How do you tell, anyway?

Personally... I don't know if I could tell the difference between and Iraqi and an Iranian and a Jordanian at a hundred paces... certainly not in bulky clothing... the sort that obviously conceals bombs. (Or lunch...)

So - how do you tell?

I tell you what - you just continue telling yourself whatever it takes to help you sleep.

Personally, I'm not interested in running off to someone else's country to fire indiscriminately on their people, for no reason other than to distract attention away from failures elsewhere in my own government.

So... you ID the corpses?

Since, you have just claimed that all the people you shoot at are foreigners... you must be able to back that claim up, right?

How do you tell, anyway?

Personally... I don't know if I could tell the difference between and Iraqi and an Iranian and a Jordanian at a hundred paces... certainly not in bulky clothing... the sort that obviously conceals bombs. (Or lunch...)

So - how do you tell?

I tell you what - you just continue telling yourself whatever it takes to help you sleep.

Personally, I'm not interested in running off to someone else's country to fire indiscriminately on their people, for no reason other than to distract attention away from failures elsewhere in my own government.

that's a pretty racist comment on your part. To say that iraqis, iranians and other middle easterners all look the same is racist and condescending. I suppose you think they all run around in turbans too and that they're all camel jockeys.

Found this on a site. I fully agree with it. Wish I knew who wrote it. It also sounds applicable to all those America haters out there.

A Letter To A Terrorist

Well, you hit the World Trade Center,
but you missed America.
You hit the Pentagon,
but you missed America.

You used helpless American bodies,
to take out other American bodies,
but like a poor marksman,
you STILL missed America. Why?

Because of something
you guys will never understand.

America isn't about a building or two,
not about financial centers,
not about military centers,
America isn't about a place,
America isn't even about a bunch of bodies.

America is about an IDEA.

An idea, that you can go someplace
where you can earn as much
as you can figure out how to,
live for the most part,
like you envisioned living,
and pursue Happiness.

(No guarantees that you'll reach it,
but you can sure try!)

Go ahead and whine your terrorist whine,
and chant your terrorist litany:
"if you cannot see my point, then feel my pain."

This concept is alien to Americans

We live in a country
where we don't have to see your point.
But you're free to have one.
We don't have to listen to your speech.
But you're free to say one.

Don't know where you got the strange idea
that everyone has to agree with you.
You guys seem to be incapable of understanding
that we don't live in America,
America lives in US!

American Spirit is what it's called.
And killing a few thousand of us,
or a few million of us,
won't change it.

Wait until you see what we do
with that Spirit, this time.

Sleep tight if you can.
WE'RE COMING!!!

Actually, I dislike America because it is NOT what it purports to be, and that many unquestioning Americans believe it is the most free country and a free enterprise paradise.

that's a pretty racist comment on your part. To say that iraqis, iranians and other middle easterners all look the same is racist and condescending. I suppose you think they all run around in turbans too and that they're all camel jockeys.

I didn't say they all looked the same.

Don't try to paint me as a racist.

That should be below even you.

My point is, I can't tell the difference in race between an American and an Australian at a hundred yards... in fact... probably not face to face, either, unless I hear them speak.

So - what are the chances I could isolate the Jordanian ina crowd of Iraqis from a hundred yards?

Nor do they have them in Norway or Luxembourg. Your point being?
Really? Aren't they afraid we'll bomb the crap out of them?

If the world and the libs are unable or unwilling to confront the evils of Islam and liberalism then we must do so on our own whether they are with us or they are against us. Either way, we will prevail over all who condone evil. And Diane Fienstien, Nancy Pelosi and their followers shall be removed from positions of trust in the United States.

i think that terrorism is evil... i would not put "liberalism" and "terrorism" in the same sentence though, and certainly not in that context.

Perhaps the most negative (not evil) aspect of liberalism (generally) in this is the naivete that if we don't fight terrorism, it will go away....

If we'd left it to the UN, Saddam would have become a great, fair and compassionate leader of a country full of happy people....

basically this: Inaction is preferable to action.

That I mostly disagree with.

But don't lump liberals with terrorists, please.

"sleep tight we're gonna get you"

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/03/15/musharraf-binladen050315.html

actually you're not

Really? Aren't they afraid we'll bomb the crap out of them?

http://www.mcdonalds.com/countries.html

Found this on a site. I fully agree with it. Wish I knew who wrote it. It also sounds applicable to all those America haters out there.

A Letter To The President

Well, you hit the World Trade Center,
but you missed America.
You hit the Pentagon,
but you missed America.

You used helpless American bodies,
to take out other American bodies,
but like a poor marksman,
you STILL missed America. Why?

Because of something
you guys will never understand.

America isn't about a building or two,
not about financial centers,
not about military centers,
America isn't about a place,
America isn't even about a bunch of bodies.

America is about an IDEA.

An idea, that you can go someplace (If you have your biometric card)
where you can earn as much
as you can figure out how to, (If your corporate master let you)
live for the most part,(As long as you live in the way THEY want)
like you envisioned living,(Free and rich, without those coloured folk around)
and pursue Happiness.(Like everyone WANTS to, but cant cause Americans kill them)

(No guarantees that you'll reach it,
but you can sure try!)

Go ahead and whine your Presidential whine,
and chant your President litany:
"if you cannot see my point, then feel my pain."

This concept is alien to Americans

We live in a country
where we don't have to see your point.(Because the powerful sue the weak)
But you're free to have one.(As long as it bows to you, O'Presidente')
We don't have to listen to your speech.(But we will likely be forced too because your friends own all the TV stations)
But you're free to say one. (But no one will listen because we are too busy building the "New World Orders" PowerCorpstate.)

Don't know where you got the strange idea
that everyone has to agree with you.
You guys seem to be incapable of understanding
that we don't live in America,
America lives in US!

American Spirit is what it's called.
And killing a few thousand of us,
or a few million of us,
won't change it.

Wait until you see what we do
with that Spirit, this time.

Sleep tight if you can.
WE'RE COMING!!!(But we will attack everyone BUT the people who actually did it, and Opps blew up another building accidentally... Building 7... Tell the FBI agents to blow up the right buildings next time, so we won't see through your ruse.. And that "let us not tolerate wild conspiracy theories" speech is justa cover like the footage of the 18foot long cruisemissle you passed off as a airplane smacking into the pentagon. Your a mass murder George Bush and eventually we will get you!)


Let me give it a re-write that makes much more sense, I mean, if they wanted Bin Laden, fucking Bush would have said "Osama, I have you mother with a knife to her throat, come in and she lives..." I mean, he killed hundreds of grandmothers and thousands of mothers, its not like he wouldn't do it again.

Wake up your stupid duped people... The rest of the world knows it, your living in eno-nazi hell, with the US flag draped like swastikas everywhere... Change your ways before the Allies (Rest of the world) teams up against the Axis powers (The US and anyone they buy off)

Wait... Thats kind already happening, just its only muslims, cause your killing them all... Right....

I didn't say they all looked the same.

Don't try to paint me as a racist.

That should be below even you.

My point is, I can't tell the difference in race between an American and an Australian at a hundred yards... in fact... probably not face to face, either, unless I hear them speak.

So - what are the chances I could isolate the Jordanian ina crowd of Iraqis from a hundred yards?
ah, so now your saying that americans and australians look the same.
And what have you got against people with accents? what did they ever do to you?

There is nothing noble about tolerating intolerance.
Tolerating intolerance leads to more intolerance which leads to things like genocide, holy wars, and terrorism and deaths of innocent people. Tolerance only goes so far. Neither in secular nor sacred scriptures (of any religion) will you find a single page where it says we should tolerate evil. In fact, everywhere you read, regardless of the sectarian nature of the writing, you will find it written, "Do not tolerate evil".
And the fact is, when you tolerate evil people, you tolerate evil and then in that event, you become evil yourself, because you tolerate it and don't seek to oppose or destroy it.


You tolerate your President, and he's the largest Warcriminal known to man. As is most of his staff. Arrest him and hanging him is a goal of most of the world. Down with Warcriminals, and down with people who support them.

I'm in a position to know.

Unlike you, most of the world does not think Bush is a war criminal. Those people who do think of Bush as a criminal have a lot of screws missing from their brains.

If you break the law you are a Criminal
Bush has broken international law
Ergo Bush is a criminal

Simple deductive logic.

You tolerate your President, and he's the largest Warcriminal known to man. As is most of his staff. Arrest him and hanging him is a goal of most of the world. Down with Warcriminals, and down with people who support them.
The majority of mankind does not share your goal. You seek to kill anyone who disagrees with your "let the terrorists run free" goal.

If you break the law you are a Criminal
Bush has broken international law
Ergo Bush is a criminal

Simple deductive logic.
Unlike, national laws, international laws are arbitrary and not binding on anyone.
International law is nothing more than a peice of advice, you can follow it if you want to, but you are not bound by it.

just so you know, I am native american. well actually 40% native american.

Working with the evil that killed off your entire race... Wow, you must be special to them... I can see your indoctrination is complete **pins a little badge on his shoulder** There.. Now you can joing the neo-nazi.. Errr... Neo-Conservative-young Republican Squad...

You make gag thinking how your forfather would love you working to put through the agendas of powerful corporations and repressing the poor and defenceless of this world.

In case your wondering, THATS why people try and blow you up if your in foreign countries. You gotta understand most children know what hte world bank is, know about whats going on int the world and can clearly see you business taking over there natural resources. While your military supresses the people. How sweet...

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/sticksandstones.html

ah, so now your saying that americans and australians look the same.
And what have you got against people with accents? what did they ever do to you?

Are you implying that Americans don't have accents?

Working with the evil that killed off your entire race... Wow, you must be special to them... I can see your indoctrination is complete **pins a little badge on his shoulder** There.. Now you can joing the neo-nazi.. Errr... Neo-Conservative-young Republican Squad...

You make gag thinking how your forfather would love you working to put through the agendas of powerful corporations and repressing the poor and defenceless of this world.

In case your wondering, THATS why people try and blow you up if your in foreign countries. You gotta understand most children know what hte world bank is, know about whats going on int the world and can clearly see you business taking over there natural resources. While your military supresses the people. How sweet...

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/sticksandstones.html

They didn't kill of my entire race. If they did, I wouldn't be here.
Hello, anyone home?
You haven't the slightest clue what you are talking bout there fore there must not be anyone home.

They sure have, I don't understand anything south of the Mason-Dixie line.

besides, Osama is pretty useful for Bush, as long as he's out there somewhere Bush can basically do whatever he wants.

On the other hand, who cares? Bush'll be gone in a few years, Osama will go back to raping goats.

Are you implying that Americans don't have accents?
that's not what I asked. Why do you have something against people with accents?

They sure have, I don't understand anything south of the Mason-Dixie line.

besides, Osama is pretty useful for Bush, as long as he's out there somewhere Bush can basically do whatever he wants.

On the other hand, who cares? Bush'll be gone in a few years, Osama will go back to raping goats.
President Powell will continue the fight against terrorists.

Unlike, national laws, international laws are arbitrary and not binding on anyone.
International law is nothing more than a peice of advice, you can follow it if you want to, but you are not bound by it.

Wow, clear cut case of facist Nazi-ism right there...

WAR CRIMINALS.. There is a plaque that the Department of Defence has and you can look it up, but it generally states "If any member of the chain of command preforms an action that is outside of the Geneva Conventions then they are to be charged to the fullest extend of military justice"

What does that stand for, or is it something akin what you neo-cons have done to the constitution, ripped it to shreds and spit on it?

I know, its called the "Patriot-DOD-Plaque" now... Which states :"We can torture, humiliate and kill prisoners at whim now... They hurt our feelings so if they are brown, BOMB THEM!!!" - No.. Somehow, I don't think you guys are that far along in your facism yet, but you have condoned torture, so you are still right down there with the Nazi's, but they're still a bit more evil that you because of the whole holocaust thing, but I hear FEMA is working on that for your dissenting civilians, so, maybe you'll be in that whole genocide league soon. I say well done if you manage to get that corrupt! **clap clap**

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18524904.300

Specifically,

THE rich are getting richer while the poor remain poor. If you doubt it, ponder these numbers from the US, a country widely considered meritocratic, where talent and hard work are thought to be enough to propel anyone through the ranks of the rich. In 1979, the top 1 per cent of the US population earned, on average, 33.1 times as much as the lowest 20 per cent. In 2000, this multiplier had grown to 88.5. If inequality is growing in the US, what does this mean for other countries?

That put's paid to the American ideal.

And yeah, if you're intolerant of intolerance, you are yourself intolerant. If you are tolerant of intolerant people, they just stomp on you. Morality is about being intolerant. You decide you just can't let someone do something, it's WRONG to you. And that's fair enough. But compassion is about tolerance - understanding why someone does something, maybe even if it's abhorrent to you - and forgiving them. You need a hefty dollop of both to be a decent person. If you go one way or the other, you're screwed. If you're rigidly moral, you lack compassion and are intolerant. If you're a push-over tolerant type, you lack a backbone and let bad stuff happen. Go figure.

Wow, clear cut case of facist Nazi-ism right there...

WAR CRIMINALS.. There is a plaque that the Department of Defence has and you can look it up, but it generally states "If any member of the chain of command preforms an action that is outside of the Geneva Conventions then they are to be charged to the fullest extend of military justice"

What does that stand for, or is it something akin what you neo-cons have done to the constitution, ripped it to shreds and spit on it?

I know, its called the "Patriot-DOD-Plaque" now... Which states :"We can torture, humiliate and kill prisoners at whim now... They hurt our feelings so if they are brown, BOMB THEM!!!" - No.. Somehow, I don't think you guys are that far along in your facism yet, but you have condoned torture, so you are still right down there with the Nazi's, but they're still a bit more evil that you because of the whole holocaust thing, but I hear FEMA is working on that for your dissenting civilians, so, maybe you'll be in that whole genocide league soon. I say well done if you manage to get that corrupt! **clap clap**


http://www.zifos.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=4385#4385

my response is there.

The majority of mankind does not share your goal. You seek to kill anyone who disagrees with your "let the terrorists run free" goal.

No, I don't want the terrorists to run free, I WANT the President arrested.

In regards to the "FREEDOM FIGHTERS" who are fighting to bomb you at checkpoints and such. I hope they live long and free their country from your forced occupation.

I mean, your Us military tried to assassinate a journalist, you used 600 rounds of ammunition but still 3 people survived your attempt to kill them. No checkpoint around, just a car at night, you must have known you were aiming a a war dissenting reporter... Well she lived and hopefully she lines up Europe against you...

Oh, and in regards to the other terrorists over the world blowing things up, well.. It happened alot before 911 and it will continue.

It would be best to simply STOP PARTICPATING IN TERRORISM and then others will too, but since you continue to oppress people for corporations, then they will fight back, because they are people.

No, I don't want the terrorists to run free, I WANT the President arrested.

In regards to the "FREEDOM FIGHTERS" who are fighting to bomb you at checkpoints and such. I hope they live long and free their country from your forced occupation.

I mean, your Us military tried to assassinate a journalist, you used 600 rounds of ammunition but still 3 people survived your attempt to kill them. No checkpoint around, just a car at night, you must have known you were aiming a a war dissenting reporter... Well she lived and hopefully she lines up Europe against you...

Oh, and in regards to the other terrorists over the world blowing things up, well.. It happened alot before 911 and it will continue.

It would be best to simply STOP PARTICPATING IN TERRORISM and then others will too, but since you continue to oppress people for corporations, then they will fight back, because they are people.


since as a real American I am not allowed to post pro america stuff here, you can look here for my response:

ttp://www.zifos.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=4386#4386

http://www.zifos.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=4385#4385

my response is there.

Wow...

Your an angry little man arn't you?


You forget that you have been programmed by your TV to hate something, you know that right? you know full well that Al-Queda was told not o be arrested before 911, you know that they didn't find WMD in Iraq, you know that on 910 they moved there tanks to the afghan border to assult them. You know that your government bombed your own people. Why do you hate the little brown people still? I mean, because the murderer of 3000 of your people says so?

what about Oklahoma City? I mean, there were 4 bombs, 2 that went off and 2 that didn't, But there was only one rider truck? But there was a support colum blast? Hmmm? Two seismic explosions on the USGS recorders? Well... I think your being duped and I say enjoy your denial...

Seems half your country doesn't even see how indoctrinated you are, or how much the corporations and republican billionaire have your head shoved right up your pooper.

ah, so now your saying that americans and australians look the same.
And what have you got against people with accents? what did they ever do to you?

I'm sorry?

Yes - Americans and Australians DO look the same - at a hundred yards, certainly!

Do you know what nationality I am?

Go look at my player pic, and see if you can tell?

What about my accent.

I assume you are just playing games now...

Can't win the debate - resort to mocking. That's pretty sad.

Wow...

Your an angry little man arn't you?


You forget that you have been programmed by your TV to hate something, you know that right? you know full well that Al-Queda was told not o be arrested before 911, you know that they didn't find WMD in Iraq, you know that on 910 they moved there tanks to the afghan border to assult them. You know that your government bombed your own people. Why do you hate the little brown people still? I mean, because the murderer of 3000 of your people says so?

what about Oklahoma City? I mean, there were 4 bombs, 2 that went off and 2 that didn't, But there was only one rider truck? But there was a support colum blast? Hmmm? Two seismic explosions on the USGS recorders? Well... I think your being duped and I say enjoy your denial...

Seems half your country doesn't even see how indoctrinated you are, or how much the corporations and republican billionaire have your head shoved right up your pooper.


That's a lie. And total BS. You people and your made up conspiracy theories that you pull out thin air.

I'm sorry?

Yes - Americans and Australians DO look the same - at a hundred yards, certainly!

Do you know what nationality I am?

Go look at my player pic, and see if you can tell?

What about my accent.

I assume you are just playing games now...

Can't win the debate - resort to mocking. That's pretty sad.
debate? all you've done is flame an god fearing american.

since as a real American I am not allowed to post pro america stuff here, you can look here for my response:

ttp://www.zifos.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=4386#4386

Interesting?

So - a muslim can't be a 'real american'?

An atheist can't be a 'real american'?

A Democrat can't be a 'real american'?

Sorry - how DO you define 'real Americans'?

(Thinking about it... Mexico is in America, and so is Brazil... what do you mean by american?)

that's not what I asked. Why do you have something against people with accents?

Everybody has accents: there is no accentless speaker anywhere.

:( That's possibly the worst written poem i've ever seen. If you want to read a proper poem with meaning about 9/11 check out "Self Evident" by Ani DiFranco.

"you can keep the pentagon
keep the propaganda
keep each and every TV
that's been trying to convince me
to participate
in some prep school punk's plan to perpetuate retribution
perpetuate retribution
even as the blue toxic smoke of our lesson in retribution
is still hanging in the air
and there's ash on our shoes
and there's ash in our hair"

debate? all you've done is flame an god fearing american.

No - I haven't flamed anybody.

And what is so special about a 'god-fearing' american?

When you decide to act sufficiently mature to debate... post something worth replying to.

At the moment, I think I'll ignore your posts.

Interesting?

So - a muslim can't be a 'real american'?

An atheist can't be a 'real american'?

A Democrat can't be a 'real american'?

Sorry - how DO you define 'real Americans'?

(Thinking about it... Mexico is in America, and so is Brazil... what do you mean by american?)
Someone who doesn't follow the anti american bandwagon.

Everybody has accents: there is no accentless speaker anywhere.

Maybe Whittier doesn't have an accent?

No - I haven't flamed anybody.

And what is so special about a 'god-fearing' american?

When you decide to act sufficiently mature to debate... post something worth replying to.

At the moment, I think I'll ignore your posts.
we have rights to put us in a special status above everyone else.

Someone who doesn't follow the anti american bandwagon.

No - you said 'real americans' can't post pro-American stuff on NS...

I want to know what a 'real american' is... not some cop-out about how you want to post banned propoganda.

Maybe Whittier doesn't have an accent?
It all depends. In my country, I don't. But in another, I might.

Maybe Whittier doesn't have an accent?

I would accept that exceptions to this rule apply to those who are dumb or mute. As to whether Whittier fits into this category or not - I have insufficient data to judge at present.

we have rights to put us in a special status above everyone else.

Riiight. And where exactly do you get these "rights" from?

we have rights to put us in a special status above everyone else.

oh really?

SO 'christian' Americans are better than other Americans?

Or is it about colour, also?

No - you said 'real americans' can't post pro-American stuff on NS...

I want to know what a 'real american' is... not some cop-out about how you want to post banned propoganda.
what you call propaganda is facts. What you post as facts are nothing but wild conspiracy theories. Next thing, you people will be claiming to be seeing UFO's and little green men from the moon.

It all depends. In my country, I don't. But in another, I might.

Ah. Apparently Whittier isn't mute then.

Riiight. And where exactly do you get these "rights" from?
GOD.

I would accept that exceptions to this rule apply to those who are dumb or mute. As to whether Whittier fits into this category or not - I have insufficient data to judge at present.

Yes - I lack enough evidence also, to decide if Whittier is dumb, or mute.

oh really?

SO 'christian' Americans are better than other Americans?

Or is it about colour, also?
yes we are better than other americans. This is a self evident truth.

GOD.

Rights come from fear?

It all depends. In my country, I don't. But in another, I might.
Interesting idea... a moment ago, you said you were American, right?

But Georgians have a different accent to Texans, who have a different accent to New Yorkers.... etc.

So - which part of America doesn't have an accent?

So God gives you special rights based on your nationality and fear of Him? Interesting. Whatever happened to "All are one in Christ Jesus" (i.e. people of all nationalities and social status are of equal value in Christ)?

Interesting idea... a moment ago, you said you were American, right?

But Georgians have a different accent to Texans, who have a different accent to New Yorkers.... etc.

So - which part of America doesn't have an accent?
Are you home in that head? I said it depends on your location.

what you call propaganda is facts. What you post as facts are nothing but wild conspiracy theories. Next thing, you people will be claiming to be seeing UFO's and little green men from the moon.

I haven't posted ANY conspiracy theories here, have I?

However, you are the one who claims to have enough information to be able to tell what country someone comes from, and if they are armed... at a distance...

THAT sounds like a conspiracy theory to me...

Rights come from fear?
No they come from the only true God. Yahweh.

Are you home in that head? I said it depends on your location.
Would you like me to repost what you ACTUALLY said?

That's a feature of the forums, you know... if you change your story from page to page, it can be seen.

You said it depended on your COUNTRY... you said you didn't have an accent in your country..

In fact:

It all depends. In my country, I don't. But in another, I might.

yes we are better than other americans. This is a self evident truth.

"Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves."
-- Philippians 2 vs 3

No they come from the only true God. Yahweh.

But it is your status as 'God-fearing' which means you receive them, yes?

And what is so special about a 'god-fearing' american?

we have rights to put us in a special status above everyone else.

I haven't posted ANY conspiracy theories here, have I?

However, you are the one who claims to have enough information to be able to tell what country someone comes from, and if they are armed... at a distance...

THAT sounds like a conspiracy theory to me...
I never said I could tell what country someone comes from. I was rediculing someone else who had made the claim in an earlier post.

But if a person looks armed, you don't wait until they get closer to defend yourself. You give them a warning to stop and put down whatever it is they are hiding. If they don't do it, you are within your right of self defense to kill them.

Are you home in that head? I said it depends on your location.

No, you said 'In my country, I don't' - in other words 'when I am in any part of America I have no accent'.

"Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves."
-- Philippians 2 vs 3
other christians.
It also says "thou shalt not hate thy brother". Yet all of you hate america. So you cannot claim to be christians.

But it is your status as 'God-fearing' which means you receive them, yes?
that's right. Fear equals respect.

No, you said 'In my country, I don't' - in other words 'when I am in any part of America I have no accent'.
now you're generalizing

Down To The Tyrannical Americans!

they Are The Terrorists!

Down With The American Empire!

Down With The Nazi George Bush!

Down With Capitalism!

All Hail Comrade Lenin And All Hail The Red Army!

Vive La Revolucion!

But if a person looks armed, you don't wait until they get closer to defend yourself. You give them a warning to stop and put down whatever it is they are hiding. If they don't do it, you are within your right of self defense to kill them.

Legal or divine right?

Does this right of self defense also apply if, for example, a policeman approaches you? - do you have a right to kill him if he doesn't put down a concealed item?

There's also something about turning your cheek in the bible Whittier..

now you're generalizing

So what exactly did you mean by "In my country, I don't" if you didn't mean "In America I don't have an accent"?

other christians.
It also says "thou shalt not hate thy brother". Yet all of you hate america. So you cannot claim to be christians.

1. Why then do you consider American Christians to be so special then?

2. Not all of us hate America. I don't hate America. Besides, America isn't my brother anyway.

other christians.
It also says "thou shalt not hate thy brother". Yet all of you hate america. So you cannot claim to be christians.
I don't hate America.
I don't hate Americans.

Most Americans leave me utterly indifferent.

I dislike the politics, and the arrogance of some Americans... but I wouldn't dream of saying that applied to ALL Americans.

I dislike the commercialism.

But I don't HATE America at all...

Yet, you seem to hate Iraq... isn't that the same thing?

Legal or divine right?

Does this right of self defense also apply if, for example, a policeman approaches you? - do you have a right to kill him if he doesn't put down a concealed item?
Divine right.

You have no right to assault a policeman unless you have reason to beleive he is going to cuase you unjustified physical harm (IE: he is corrupt and he is going to kill you to prevent you from testifying in court against him or one of his buddies, in that case you have the right to kill him).

I don't hate America.
I don't hate Americans.

Most Americans leave me utterly indifferent.

I dislike the politics, and the arrogance of some Americans... but I wouldn't dream of saying that applied to ALL Americans.

I dislike the commercialism.

But I don't HATE America at all...

Yet, you seem to hate Iraq... isn't that the same thing?
If I hated Iraqis then how is it I have Iraqi friends?

Well, I'm done here. You america haters have fun with all those wild unsubstantiated conspiracy theories you keep pulling out of thin air.

Divine right.

By what manner was this right revealed to you?

You have no right to assault a policeman unless you have reason to beleive he is going to cuase you unjustified physical harm (IE: he is corrupt and he is going to kill you to prevent you from testifying in court against him or one of his buddies, in that case you have the right to kill him).


So, what you said earlier doesn't hold up then - But if a person looks armed, you don't wait until they get closer to defend yourself. You give them a warning to stop and put down whatever it is they are hiding. If they don't do it, you are within your right of self defense to kill them. - as it doesn't apply to policemen, yes? Was this caveat concerning policemen also included in the divine revelation?

I never said I could tell what country someone comes from. I was rediculing someone else who had made the claim in an earlier post.

But if a person looks armed, you don't wait until they get closer to defend yourself. You give them a warning to stop and put down whatever it is they are hiding. If they don't do it, you are within your right of self defense to kill them.

Obviously there are no deaf Iraqis?

If I hated Iraqis then how is it I have Iraqi friends?

As far as I know? You don't.

All you talk about on the forum is how you kill them.

Personally - I am beginning to suspect you've never even been outside of Kansas, or whatever state you really come from.

I'm beginning to think you are actually someone with too little schoo-work to do, and who plays too much Counter-Strike...

Obviously there are no deaf Iraqis?

So the Soldiers should wait until they find out if this person has a bomb or some other sort of Weapon by "allowing" them to use it?

Not sure how many deaf people would be stupid enough to walk towards Armed men pointing weapons at them?

War is HELL!

Something about that some don't get?

Regards,
Gaar

As far as I know? You don't.

All you talk about on the forum is how you kill them.

Personally - I am beginning to suspect you've never even been outside of Kansas, or whatever state you really come from.

I'm beginning to think you are actually someone with too little schoo-work to do, and who plays too much Counter-Strike...

And I am left to wonder how someone who won't even disclose their own location is able to question someone else's location?!?!

And be so condescending while doing it...

Regards,
Gaar

Fuck patriotism, we're all human.

That is the only truth... Too bad that most of people don´t think that way, and prefer bombing others just for oil, influence, etc... Why those people don´t realize that people like them die every day because of wars, hunger, etc, while they are sitting in a sofa watching television, and eating snacks....

I hate this americans who supports war, this is disgusting...

Yes They oppose freedom. And they hate Ameica. And they are evil. And tehy are being mean to me. And they have stolen my candy. And we have to kill them all!!!!

[/irony off]

Do you realize how ridicolous this sounds?
We are about tolerance!
We have to get rid of them because they disagree with us!

........right......

By what manner was this right revealed to you?




So, what you said earlier doesn't hold up then - But if a person looks armed, you don't wait until they get closer to defend yourself. You give them a warning to stop and put down whatever it is they are hiding. If they don't do it, you are within your right of self defense to kill them. - as it doesn't apply to policemen, yes? Was this caveat concerning policemen also included in the divine revelation?
the policeman, like all govt. officials get their authority from God.

As far as I know? You don't.

All you talk about on the forum is how you kill them.

Personally - I am beginning to suspect you've never even been outside of Kansas, or whatever state you really come from....

Hey now, I live in Kansas, and yes have been outside the state. So let's not get personal.

As far as I know? You don't.

All you talk about on the forum is how you kill them.

Personally - I am beginning to suspect you've never even been outside of Kansas, or whatever state you really come from.

I'm beginning to think you are actually someone with too little schoo-work to do, and who plays too much Counter-Strike...
No you are the one who was only talking bout how I was killing all of them, when you've never even set foot in Iraq.

Hey now, I live in Kansas, and yes have been outside the state. So let's not get personal.

Nothing against Kansas... I've been there.

Sorry - didn't mean to offend.. but I did notice it being a little.... flat?

And that suited my purpose, I'm afraid... :(

Nothing against Kansas... I've been there.

Sorry - didn't mean to offend.. but I did notice it being a little.... flat?

And that suited my purpose, I'm afraid... :(

Except for the Flint Hills region is it very flat! Helps to see the tornadoes coming...... :D

No you are the one who was only talking bout how I was killing all of them, when you've never even set foot in Iraq.

Curious... I didn't say "all"... that was your own slip.

And, I find myself wondering why you assume I have never been to Iraq?

Curious... I didn't say "all"... that was your own slip.

And, I find myself wondering why you assume I have never been to Iraq?
The way you talk.

the policeman, like all govt. officials get their authority from God.

That doesn't answer either question, though does it: it just opens up the possibility that the potentially armed person approaching you might also have got their authority from God.


What happens if the policeman doesn't believe in God, does he still carry God's authority?

Further to these matters: when you say 'all govt. officials' are you tlaking only about the American government and any puppet governments it puts in place in other countries, or does this apply to all governments around the world?

I'll also ask again:

By what manner was this right revealed to you?

Except for the Flint Hills region is it very flat! Helps to see the tornadoes coming...... :D

It was pretty spectacular actually... driving through a totally flat landscape... that just stretches to infinity all around... the road disappearing before and behind you... awesome.

The way you talk.

My accent, perhaps?

That doesn't answer either question, though does it: it just opens up the possibility that the potentially armed person approaching you might also have got their authority from God.


What happens if the policeman doesn't believe in God, does he still carry God's authority?

Further to these matters: when you say 'all govt. officials' are you tlaking only about the American government and any puppet governments it puts in place in other countries, or does this apply to all governments around the world?

I'll also ask again:Just the american administration of George W Bush and those who faithfully serve him.

My accent, perhaps?
all the lies and false propaganda you spouted to support your antiamericanism.
if you were in Iraq, you would know those things to be false. The fact that you actually believe them, tells me you've never actually been to Iraq.
Now I'm not saying I've been to Iraq either, but I'm the only person in my unit who hasn't. Everyone else in my unit has been to Iraq and I go off what they tell me. Which I hold to be more credible than what is posted by anti americans on this site, cause unlike the anti americans, the people I work with in my unit, have actually been on the ground in Iraq.

And I am left to wonder how someone who won't even disclose their own location is able to question someone else's location?!?!

And be so condescending while doing it...

Regards,
Gaar

I have disclosed my location.

There are many people on this forum who know pretty much exactly where I live.

Not in THIS thread, though...

The thing is... Whittier seems to be able to tell people's nations of origin by looking at them - so I challenged him to tell me, by looking at my pic.

There ARE people on the forum today, who could tell him if he was right...

I have disclosed my location.

There are many people on this forum who know pretty much exactly where I live.

Not in THIS thread, though...

The thing is... Whittier seems to be able to tell people's nations of origin by looking at them - so I challenged him to tell me, by looking at my pic.

There ARE people on the forum today, who could tell him if he was right...
I never said that. In fact, I've denied it repeatedly.
I think you are mental cause you keep insisting I can people's nationalities just by looking at their picture.

Just the american administration of George W Bush and those who faithfully serve him.

That's in the bible, is it?

You have been 'told' by god?

That's in the bible, is it?

You have been 'told' by god?
yes

I never said that. In fact, I've denied it repeatedly.
I think you are mental cause you keep insisting I can people's nationalities just by looking at their picture.

Funny - you said

that's a pretty racist comment on your part. To say that iraqis, iranians and other middle easterners all look the same is racist and condescending. I suppose you think they all run around in turbans too and that they're all camel jockeys.

You are, therefore, implying that YOU COULD tell the difference between and iraqi, iranian and 'other middle easterner'... because to NOT be able to is 'condescending' and 'racist'?

Hoist by your own petard, my friend.

Watch out - your words come back to haunt you.

yes
(If you mean yes to both... you should have said yes twice).

Okay - prove it.

Just the american administration of George W Bush and those who faithfully serve him.

By what manner was this right and its specific details revealed to you?

By what manner was this right and its specific details revealed to you?
divine revelation, as I've already stated. I can't help it if God doesn't want to talk to you.

all the lies and false propaganda you spouted to support your antiamericanism.
if you were in Iraq, you would know those things to be false. The fact that you actually believe them, tells me you've never actually been to Iraq.
Now I'm not saying I've been to Iraq either, but I'm the only person in my unit who hasn't. Everyone else in my unit has been to Iraq and I go off what they tell me. Which I hold to be more credible than what is posted by anti americans on this site, cause unlike the anti americans, the people I work with in my unit, have actually been on the ground in Iraq.

I am not anti-American.

Which post did I make that implied I was?

Oh - and you said "Have you ever been in a fire fight against terrorists? NO? What the fuck gives you the right to say whether I am right or wrong"?

You implied superiority, based on your combat experience in Iraq... which you have NOW asserted is something you DON'T HAVE.

So - you lied about your war stories, to try to beat someone in an argument?

That's pretty weak.

I am not anti-American.

Which post did I make that implied I was?

Oh - and you said

You implied superiority, based on your combat experience in Iraq... which you have NOW asserted is something you DON'T HAVE.

So - you lied about your war stories, to try to beat someone in an argument?

That's pretty weak.
excuse me, but that's a pretty bad attempt at generalization.
I never implied I was in Iraq. I said unless you've actually been in a firefight, you have no right to condenm those who have.

divine revelation, as I've already stated. I can't help it if God doesn't want to talk to you.

What evidence do you have to prove that this was actually God speaking to you, rather than mental disturbance such as that suffered by Peter Sutcliffe (AKA the Yorkshire Ripper) who killed thirteen women while believing himself to be hearing the voice of God?

What evidence do you have to prove that this was actually God speaking to you, rather than mental disturbance such as that suffered by Peter Sutcliffe (AKA the Yorkshire Ripper) who killed thirteen women while believing himself to be hearing the voice of God?
God would not tell you to kill innocent people.
He gave me signs, that's how I know it was him.

divine revelation, as I've already stated. I can't help it if God doesn't want to talk to you.

God may not talk to BWO but he talks to me all the time. Just last night 'brah was trippin' 'bout homosexuals on the phone but then he said "I love gays, yo. Spread the love! IT'S ALL GOOD BABY!"

excuse me, but that's a pretty bad attempt at generalization.
I never implied I was in Iraq. I said unless you've actually been in a firefight, you have no right to condenm those who have.
Do I have to go back and pull the rest of that post and those around them?

You were talking about shooting natives in Iraq.

When questioned about how you could be sure who you were murdering, you bridled with the responses about 'firefights'.

It's all in the context, Whittier.

I wonder why you are so sure I have never been under fire?

You really DO make a lot of assumptions... and you know what they say about that...

God would not tell you to kill innocent people.

They were mostly prostitutes... make of that what you will.

He gave me signs, that's how I know it was him.

What were the nature of these signs?

God would not tell you to kill innocent people.
He gave me signs, that's how I know it was him.

The devil can be very charming when he wants to...

If the world and the libs are unable or unwilling to confront the evils of Islam

This is exactly why I hate people like you. You assume that all Muslims are now "evil" for whatever reason.
Why can't you say "evils of iraq" or "osama" or al-qaida" (spelling?)

But no. Instead you bash 1/6 of the world by something one certain group is doing.
:headbang:

at least the USA didnt have decades of being randomly bombed by the IRA (funded by some of those lovely people in the USA via NORAID)

the UK didnt declare war either because of the IRA - we made PEACE with them

thats the way forward not bombing the hell out of another country imo
Really? Peace? Considering as far as I know conflict still rages in Northern Ireland, and seeing as how none of the Irish folks (or Scots for that matter) really like you Englishmen too much, I'd say you can take that argument and shove it. There won't be peace until you Brits have succeeded in either killing off every single Catholic in Northern Ireland, or actually given up your claim there, seeing as how you have no right to it. I mean, shit, America is supposed to be the big bad Imperialist threat, but we GAVE UP all the major territories we took. Panama Canal, Phillipines, etc. In fact, Puerto Rico is only still here because THEY wan't to be the 51st state, and we won't let them. But hey hey hey, the UK rocks. *watches UK carefully place foot in mouth*

And I liked the poem/letter. Yes, a lot of people died, and many of them were people we knew. However, we pulled together as a nation (Bush had a 92% approval rating for a while there), and we got something done in response. And don't give that "For us/Against us" bullshit. I don't recall us bombing innocent civilians in Spain, Germany, or France, which would be more along terrorist lines. We disagree with you, but we didn't attack you for refusing to support us. So now the rest of you can go stick YOUR feet in YOUR mouths. *Watches all the rest stick feet in mouths*

Good lord, basic logic escapes even the brightest of you Europeans when it comes to America. Hell, you blame us for everything anyways. That might be why we stopped really caring what you thought. That, and the fact that when we were a brand new nation you all tried to manipulate and control us. France, England, Spain, and more. Now you get your just desserts.

This is exactly why I hate people like you. You assume that all Muslims are now "evil" for whatever reason.
Why can't you say "evils of iraq" or "osama" or al-qaida" (spelling?)

But no. Instead you bash 1/6 of the world by something one certain group is doing.
:headbang:
is that why you blow up innocent people?

is that why you blow up innocent people?

Yeah, I'm talking to God on the phone and He says, "STFU n00b!"

GODPWNED!!!!!

Ahem! First of all there is no such thing as a "U.S. Army Marine," he was either Army or Marine. Secondly, if the ship was in port in Libya it must have been a very long time ago as or very reciently US Naval have not visited Lybian ports for a very long time. Third, I do beleive the USS Saratoga was an aircraft carrier, but I'm to lazy to look it up right now.

i think it was the 60s as you would find out if you read the posts and army marine is a term we use for someone in one or the other, not knowing which.
i know this post is probably old but i could not help but post a reply.
now if the u.s saratoga was an aircarft carrier then that makes it an aircraft carrier and blackadders dad with a vague memory of a us ship with all recolection of it being the "saratoga" it does not make it his fault that some u.s bucket was a troop ship or aircraft carrier. tou should not start spouting off about things wich peoples own knowledge is second hand

is that why you blow up innocent people?

Flame.

Grow up, Whittier.

Do you seriously think ALL muslims are out planting bombs?

Really? Peace? Considering as far as I know conflict still rages in Northern Ireland,


Well, the Provos are still on ceasefire, but splinter groups such as the RIRA and CIRA still exist but are mostly inactive. The same applies for most of the major Loyalist organisations: on ceasefire but operating a low level of gangsterism. Hardly a conflist which still 'rages' right now: certainly it is unresolved, but the attempts at resolution remain centred on non-violent means.

There won't be peace until you Brits have succeeded in either killing off every single Catholic in Northern Ireland, or actually given up your claim there, seeing as how you have no right to it. I mean, shit, America is supposed to be the big bad Imperialist threat, but we GAVE UP all the major territories we took. Panama Canal, Phillipines, etc. In fact, Puerto Rico is only still here because THEY wan't to be the 51st state, and we won't let them.

This is ignoring the fact that the majority of people in Northern Ireland want to be part of the UK... in what way is this different from the Puerto Rico example?

is that why you blow up innocent people?

When did 6th Core blow up innocent people? I seem to have blinked and missed that.

God would not tell you to kill innocent people.
He gave me signs, that's how I know it was him.
BS. Was Abraham's son not innocent? God can tell pretty much what he wants... all the omnipotence shit and all...

Well, the Provos are still on ceasefire, but splinter groups such as the RIRA and CIRA still exist but are mostly inactive. The same applies for most of the major Loyalist organisations: on ceasefire but operating a low level of gangsterism. Hardly a conflist which still 'rages' right now: certainly it is unresolved, but the attempts at resolution remain centred on non-violent means.



This is ignoring the fact that the majority of people in Northern Ireland want to be part of the UK... in what way is this different from the Puerto Rico example?
Inactive? Funny, seeing as how last year a 50 (fifty) million dollar bank robbery was attributed to the IRA. although Sinn Fein denied the connection. And by the way, the IRA still hasn't disarmed. perhaps you've been reading propaganda? And by the way, in 2003 the Ulster Unionists and the rest fo the moderates lost out to Ian Paisley's Democratic Socialists and Sinn Fein, extremists. Doesn't seem very stable to me...

And by the way, the difference between it and Puerto Rico is that your government is claiming land on another governments main body of land, while Puerto Rico is an island. Also, we DON'T want Puerto Rico, but you DO want Northern Ireland. And the only reason more people haven't moved up there and outnumbered the Protestants is that it isn't safe, since it was the Protestants who initiated violence back in the 60s. And don't lie about your nation's motives. Northern Ireland is the center of manufacturing for the island. THAT is why you Brits won't give it up.

Inactive? Funny, seeing as how last year a 50 (fifty) million dollar bank robbery was attributed to the IRA. although Sinn Fein denied the connection.

Keyword:

mostly


And by the way, the IRA still hasn't disarmed. perhaps you've been reading propaganda?


Did I claim that they had? This remains one of the main sticking points in the talks (prior to the bank robbery)

And by the way, in 2003 the Ulster Unionists and the rest fo the moderates lost out to Ian Paisley's Democratic Socialists and Sinn Fein, extremists. Doesn't seem very stable to me...

Stability in NI is relative to a different standard than elsewhere.

And by the way, the difference between it and Puerto Rico is that your government is claiming land on another governments main body of land, while Puerto Rico is an island.

What government owns this 'main body of land'? The givernment of the Republic no longer make a claim to it in their constitution.

Also, we DON'T want Puerto Rico, but you DO want Northern Ireland.

Careful with what you characterise me as here - its not that I'm situated in a part of the UK outside of NI claiming dominion over it, insteada I live here.

And don't lie about your nation's motives. Northern Ireland is the center of manufacturing for the island. THAT is why you Brits won't give it up.

Centre of manufacturing for which island? Ireland or Great Britain? Neither statement is true.

Great letter Whittier!
Those terrorists are so STUPID!!!! They really think they can win the Western World.
If they want to fight us then I say come and fight like men, you are not going to win no matter what way you fight.
You have woken the sleeping US giant. Remember?

LET THE FLAMING BEGIN!


sorry but the only thing I can see from such a letter, is all the Anti-American/Anti-Bush people sharpening their knives...
I have a beef with this statement.
Firstly, I'm a New Yorker. Anti Bush is not Anti American. This country was founded on the belief that people are to use a democratic system in which to take on the issues of their country. Both domestically and abroad. I think that Bush is a Jackass but I could start another thread on that whole issue alone.

In any event there is some thing I would like to add to this thread comin' from New York and being in the city when it happened...

To be American
It was a day I'll never forget
"A day that will live in infamy"
A day that many families will remember
A day I will never forget
a day where New Yorkers lost husbands,
Sons and daughters, brothers and sisters
New Yorkers lost parents too
A day where so many died and a day we will never forget.

This day left the streets bare.
The block had no cars driving.
It seems that no one was left.
The bridges were shut down
All the planes in america were grounded

on that day
New Yorkers had to walk home
on that day
some walking as far as from Manhattan to Brooklyn.
or from Manhattan to the Bronx
From North to South of that Island
Or from East to West.

on that day
New Yorkers had to keep going
I myself walked four miles home
The first two miles took me to abuela's house

That was when I first saw that it was true.
Two planes had hit those towers
Two planes had brought them down

New Yorkers ran from the towers
some escaped the falling structures
others did not
Many still did not escape the debris
The soot that carried from the tower
the soot that covered those who had been there
The soot that came from the debris and the ashes
of that which once was

As it is written in a letter to a terrorist
They missed America
From the Ashes rose in me
A new appreciation for America
Because United We Stand
The idea in America is to speak your mind
To stand for what you believe in
To protest that which you don't

To protest a War is not protesting America
To protest America's actions is to be an American
_________________________________________________________

If the world and the libs are unable or unwilling to confront the evils of Islam and liberalism then we must do so on our own whether they are with us or they are against us. Either way, we will prevail over all who condone evil. And Diane Fienstien, Nancy Pelosi and their followers shall be removed from positions of trust in the United States.


lol

i love a good joke when i hear one.

so much for "you can say what you want, because it's your right to have the freedom of speech. you can think what you want because you have freedom of thought"

conservativism thrives on stamping out anything that isn't conservative.

Flame.

Grow up, Whittier.

Do you seriously think ALL muslims are out planting bombs?
I'm kind of new here, but ol' Whittier- seems to subscribe to the world model wherein all groups are condensed into one person each. If Whittier- does not view himself in that group, any good qualities members of that group might have are omitted in the condensed person. Of course, if Whittier- himself is in his opinion a member of said group, any negative traits are instead omitted. It's a simple and pleasing view of the world, if you happen to be an unrepentant narcissist. :D

They're not iraqi terrorists, they're foriegners invading Iraq with the intent to impose a foreign sharia government on the people there.
We on theother hand, have already given them their government back. The terrorists, who are not Iraqis, seek to take it away.

That they're foreigners is a myth. Sure, there may be some foreign elements, but I've spoken to a woman who was in Iraq during the invasion, in a civilian capacity. She said the the fighters were mainly ordinary Iraqis who didn't want to see their country INVADED and OCCUPIED.

And if everyone opposed to the occupation is foreign, why did the Iraqis elect a government that opposes the US occupation, by and large? (Although the election weren't exactly free and fair...) It remains to be seen whether the US will allow a somewhat hostile government to actually take power...

So.. Whittier is still talking? OK...

First off, since you're in the service:

1.) If you're seeing signs from God to kill people, you need to be Chaptered out before they tell you that your Commander is anti-Bush.

2.) Don't try to make up experiences based upon the words of others. Trust me, you've failed.

3.) I've been to Iraq, so by the fact that you base everything you know and said off of what people who have worked on the ground in Iraq have told you, then you should hold what I say true as well. So my saying that you're an idiot, negative american stereotype that is probably adding to the sole reason America is so hated rings true as well.

4.) If you ever go to Iraq, try living up to all that you've said here, and I'll be laughing when they show your face as the next tenant at Fort Levensworth Military Prison.

Now on to you in general:

You really need to realize that you're in serious need of mental help. Being a Christian means a follower of Christ. Being an American Christian simply means that you're living in America while doing so. You're nothing special, and I honestly don't think that God would pick someone like you to deliver signs of holy genocide to, unless of course he wanted to make an example of what not to do. I do believe that you're being effected by the Beast, and need to take a nice dunk in Holy water to see your errors, or Napalm while holding a match. Either way, you'll be cleansed, though Holy water hasn't been known to increase brain cell count so you'll be a cleansed idiot.

Get over this "I have to hate the terrorist in order to kill them" Bull that you're trying to pull. Odds are you'll freeze when you actually have to pull the trigger and send a 7.62 round into an insurgent. Trust me, people like you always do with you're "I"m an American and want to kill terrorists" persona. And if you SOMEHOW are able to do it, you'll probably be crying right after, hopefully not while still in the field since you'll be a burden to the rest of your detatchment. You're nothing, plain and simple, and will remain so until you grow up. God help you when you do go to Iraq; because no one else will if you pull the bull you said you'd pull in here, or the reason why. Believe me, if you do, you'll know just why there are so many instances of "Friendly Fire". Get over it, whatever IT is. :rolleyes:

:sniper:

We don't have to listen to your speech.
But you're free to say one.

Great poem, dumbass. Im sure Edgar Allan Poe wishes he were you.

I am just dumbstruck that this forum has gone on for so long. I personnally don't try and group terrorists together, but base them on the goals they are fighting for, and the means they use. I condone the efforts of Palestine (to an extent), but not those of Al-Queda.

Also, I think it would be interesting to note that the American fighters in the war of independance could arguably be called terrorists, but f course I wouldn't dare to air that view in public. (oops!) :eek:

I am just dumbstruck that this forum has gone on for so long. I personnally don't try and group terrorists together, but base them on the goals they are fighting for, and the means they use. I condone the efforts of Palestine (to an extent), but not those of Al-Queda.

Also, I think it would be interesting to note that the American fighters in the war of independance could arguably be called terrorists, but f course I wouldn't dare to air that view in public. (oops!) :eek:

Well I mean "shock and awe" = terror right?

I saw something on TV last night that pointed out how independent journalists (Reuters, SABC and others that weren't "embedded")may well have been the targets of unprovoked US shelling. That's insane.

I will no longer post here as I am now boycotting the general forum.

I will no longer post here as I am now boycotting the general forum.
Poor bub. ;)

So my saying that you're an idiot, negative american stereotype that is probably adding to the sole reason America is so hated rings true as well.

You really need to realize that you're in serious need of mental help.

I do believe that you're being effected by the Beast, and need to take a nice dunk in Holy water to see your errors, or Napalm while holding a match. Either way, you'll be cleansed, though Holy water hasn't been known to increase brain cell count so you'll be a cleansed idiot.

You're nothing, plain and simple, and will remain so until you grow up.
As I just got done telling Whittier in Moderation, retaliation and counter-flaming is not an acceptable response on NationStates. You managed to make about half your points while sticking to the "no flaming" rules, but these ad hominem attacks cross the line of acceptable behavior.

Given your post history does't show a propensity to this sort of behavior, I'm going to make this an unoffical warning. Find a way to say what you need to say without breaking site rules. Clear?

~ Frisbeeteria ~
NationStates Moderator Team


Given that the topic starter is forumbanned for trolling and flaming, I think it's safe to close this thread.