NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.boston.com/ae/media/articles/2005/03/12/the_disappearing_tween_years/

America is a nation of sin. This is just awful. I read the whole article over breakfast this morning, and I read it again. I can't believe how awful this is. I don't know whow I missed it when I was in middle school.

Frankly, I don't see what the problem is.

So fucking what if they wear that stuff, and so fucking what if one of the most popular TV shows is about "desperate housewives"?

You know, it's more "moral" to be tolerant than it is to force your ideals upon others.

Hey, another thread about the constantly changing American culture.

America is morally destroyed. Everyone is grabbing at eachother's money.

Frankly, I don't see what the problem is.

So fucking what if they wear that stuff, and so fucking what if one of the most popular TV shows is about "desperate housewives"?

You know, it's more "moral" to be tolerant than it is to force your ideals upon others.
"Desperate housewives"? That isn't such a great series.

http://www.boston.com/ae/media/articles/2005/03/12/the_disappearing_tween_years/

America is a nation of sin. This is just awful. I read the whole article over breakfast this morning, and I read it again. I can't believe how awful this is. I don't know whow I missed it when I was in middle school.

Damn, where were these girls when I was that age?

"Desperate housewives"? That isn't such a great series.


It's not, but it's still one of the most popular.

America is morally destroyed. Everyone is grabbing at eachother's money.
*steals Heiligkeit's $* :D

I love sensationalism! Don't you?

Honestly, this is part of cultural evolution...get over it.

Who wants to make a bet half of these "morally corrupt" girls are from a religious family?

I'll bet all my money on 45% of them being from religious families.

As I say, everyone has a right to choose how to go to Hell. I wouldn't worry about it, so long as you don't succumb to it.

I dont see the problem, if they want to wear it, and the mother and father let them , no one cares.

The deal in the US is that you are not an adult until your 18. Your parents have authority over you until you reach the age of 18 unless you are court ordered emancipated. This all means that the "PARENTS" are responsible for there children. If these "PARENTS" let there children look like little gangster rapper thugs and or whores then its there fault. Lets look at the root problem. Its not TV or advertising and or the kids fault. Lay blame where it belongs.

My problem with this whole tween culture is that it is breeding an emptyheaded generation of young women who only think about boys and fashion...

There's this show called "Girl TV" in Aus. *sighs and crawls into a hole*

The moralistic side is pretty much irrelevant to me, since I don't think people should be imposing their values on others.

Finally! Back to the good old days before Gays, Abortions, adultery, condoms, freewi- I mean, freedom to vote, and seperation of church and State!

Now girls can act like they were married at fourteen, just like in the "good old days."

I don't really put much stock in "immorality" in this case, but I do think it's sad that kids can't just be kids anymore.

However, sex sells. And the parents aren't spending as much time with their kids anymore, I don't think.

Maybe it's inevitable. Oh well. Funny, there sure didn't seem to be very many of that kind of girl when I was in middle school.

My problem with this whole tween culture is that it is breeding an emptyheaded generation of young women who only think about boys and fashion...

There's this show called "Girl TV" in Aus. *sighs and crawls into a hole*

The moralistic side is pretty much irrelevant to me, since I don't think people should be imposing their values on others.


God. They have a buttload of shows like that here in America. But, hey, if they're stupid enough to watch that crap and model themselves after the people on them, then hey, by all means.

God. They have a buttload of shows like that here in America. But, hey, if they're stupid enough to watch that crap and model themselves after the people on them, then hey, by all means.
Well MY girls are going to be smarter than that!

They sure as hell better be! I want to raise free spirits! :)

Well MY girls are going to be smarter than that!

They sure as hell better be! I want to raise free spirits! :)


Same here, damnit!

America!! The Great Syatan!! Yarr!!

---------

Ok honestly.. people should stop letting the tv raise their kids.

Syatan?

Syatan?

Well, thats what fundamentalist muslims call it. Spelling it directly from Bahasa Melayu.

It's not Satan as in 'Say-tan'

But Syatan 'Shah-ton' (ton as in one 'tonne')

Or Shaitan 'sha-ie-ton'

Oh yeah, forgot that you were from KL. That explains it!

What can you expect from a savagely greedy nation that embraces war and demonizes morality and the social conscience?

This is why the dems must be removed from all public offices. Cause they condone this stuff. They condone terrorism and they condone evil.

Kahta, burn your tv and computer, and homeschool your daughters. Don't ruin it for us who like this evolution.

Yep, American values are sexualizing teenagers at younger and younger ages. No one seems to mind too much. I was in the minority and still am when faced with the prospect of my former elementary school getting a cheerleading team. I've always thought dressing little girls up in short dresses and making them dance around for the sheer purpose of 'stimulating' excellent performance in the football team and for making a buncha PTA assholes get a moral 'rise' out of it was absolutely balls-out perverted, and I've been flamed whenever I bring the subject up, online or offline, amongst mixed crowds. It's old-fashioned of me, you see.

Regardless, I'm not about to go blaming corporations and society when it's the responsibility of each parent to raise their children, and each child not to turn into a skanky abuse-victim-turnaround teen prostitute. People don't believe in responsibility, so this is what we get.

One more reason why I'm not having kids.

This is why the dems must be removed from all public offices. Cause they condone this stuff. They condone terrorism and they condone evil.

As noted when John kerry said "I want to destroy america, thats the only reason why I gave money to al-qaeda, and the united members of evil. I just want little girls walking around nude, giving blow jobs to cops. Is that really so messed up?"

This is why the dems must be removed from all public offices. Cause they condone this stuff. They condone terrorism and they condone evil.


Would you stop trolling already?

Would you stop trolling already?

You cuss and say things MUCH worse than this and then accuse someone else of Trolling?

Just how does that work, in your mind?

Regards,
Gaar

I do "cuss" and say "much worse things", but at least they're within the bounds of the topic at hand. His post was a blatant troll.

Most of his are.

You cuss and say things MUCH worse than this and then accuse someone else of Trolling?

Just how does that work, in your mind?

Regards,
Gaar

"Cussing" =/= trolling

You cuss and say things MUCH worse than this and then accuse someone else of Trolling?

Just how does that work, in your mind?

Regards,
Gaar

Whittier - Please stop trolling.

There now. From a non cusser.

Haha, who says "cuss" these days anyway?

It sounds so... sheltered. I mean, my grandma swears and she's 80...

Haha, who says "cuss" these days anyway?

It sounds so... sheltered. I mean, my grandma swears and she's 80...

preebles are you a gal or a bruce?

Trolling makes Jesus sad.

Can I have a comprehensive list of Potaria's crimes against forumity? C'mon, there's gotta be a research-junkie out there somewhere.

preebles are you a gal or a bruce?

I'm a gal. :D I don't know why that makes me grin, it just does! What about you Edmund? :p

"The sound of hoof beats 'cross the glade
Good folk, lock up your son and daughter
Beware the deadly flashing blade
Unless you want to end up shorter
Black Adder, Black Adder, he rides a pitch black steed
Black Adder, Black Adder, he's very bad indeed
Black: his gloves of finest mole
Black: his codpiece made of metal
His horse is blacker than a vole
His pot is blacker than his kettle
Black Adder, Black Adder, with many a cunning plan
Black Adder, Black Adder, you horrid little man!"

I'm a gal. :D I don't know why that makes me grin, it just does! What about you Edmund? :p

solid british chap :D
ausy land is a great holliday destination by the way and i have some distant relatives living there

"The sound of hoof beats 'cross the glade /
Good folk, lock up your son and daughter /
Beware the deadly flashing blade /
Unless you want to end up shorter /
Black Adder, Black Adder, he rides a pitch black steed /
Black Adder, Black Adder, he's very bad indeed /
Black: his gloves of finest mole /
Black: his codpiece made of metal /
His horse is blacker than a vole /
His pot is blacker than his kettle /
Black Adder, Black Adder, with many an cunning plan /
Black Adder, Black Adder, you horrid little man!"


Flashheart: She's got a tongue like an electric eel and she likes the taste of a man's tonsils.

solid british chap :D
ausy land is a great holliday destination by the way and i have some distant relatives living there
Like Falhaar said, you horrid little man! :p

And are you planning on backpacking here, then overstaying your visa?[/stereotype]

''Desperate Housewives" ranked as the most popular network television show among kids ages 9 to 12.

Holy shit, I detest that show.

BTW, girls these days seem to have egos 100 times the size of Hitler and Stalin combined. There's an extreme obsession with looks and fashion (to an unbelievable extent in terms of cloths, accessories, make up, surgery and photography [yeah,self-photography)

What's more, it seems to be spilling over and contaminating the normally more sensible ( :p ) male side of the gender (the evil "metrosexual" phase/trend)

:headbang:

Time to end the bs *loads P90* :mp5:

(I realise that's supposed to be an MP5 smiley, but P90's are cooler)

Like Falhaar said, you horrid little man! :p


???

Holy shit, I detest that show.

BTW, girls these days seem to have egos 100 times the size of Hitler and Stalin combined. There's an extreme obsession with looks and fashion (to an unbelievable extent in terms of cloths, accessories, make up, surgery and photography [yeah,self-photography)

What's more, it seems to be spilling over and contaminating the normally more sensible ( :p ) male side of the gender (the evil "metrosexual" phase/trend)

:headbang:

Time to end the bs *loads P90* :mp5:

(I realise that's supposed to be an MP5 smiley, but P90's are cooler)

i prefer the sa80

http://havok.lothlorien.nu/helen.jpg

Won't somebody please think of the children!!???!!!

Just continued that article, and... HOLY COW:

Last Halloween a group of 13-year-old girls in Brockton dressed up as prostitutes, with fishnet stockings, tube tops, miniskirts, and high heels. ''We're ho's," one girl told the local newspaper. The news that a 15-year-old girl at Milton Academy performed oral sex on five older boys has prompted a wide discussion about sexualized behavior among kids. And it's not just sex -- girls today, on average, take their first alcoholic drink at age 13, according to the American Medical Association.

It's just staggering IMO, and quite sad really

:eek:

Good, article. But sadly, it hits the nail on the head. I've made similar observations regarding those "teen" magazines that 9-12 year olds seem to frequently buy and read.

Seriously, some times 99% of the content should be solidly restricted to over 18 year olds :eek:

???
Just quoting the Blackadder theme randomly. :p

BTW, girls these days seem to have egos 100 times the size of Hitler and Stalin combined. There's an extreme obsession with looks and fashion (to an unbelievable extent in terms of cloths, accessories, make up, surgery and photography [yeah,self-photography)

Generalise much?

What's more, it seems to be spilling over and contaminating the normally more sensible ( ) male side of the gender (the evil "metrosexual" phase/trend)

Chauvanise much?

Time for a last gasp of OTism

Blackadder: I've got a plan so cunning you stick a tail on it and call it a weasel!

http://havok.lothlorien.nu/helen.jpg

Won't somebody please think of the children!!???!!!

Haha.
Besides which, we'd be fools if we thought that teenagers weren't ALWAYS sexual beings. It's just more in your face these days.

Generalise much?


Blackadder: I've got a plan so cunning you stick a tail on it and call it a weasel!

:D
Just quoting the Blackadder theme randomly. :p
cool

Generalise much?

Chauvanise much?

Time for a last gasp of OTism

Blackadder: I've got a plan so cunning you stick a tail on it and call it a weasel!

No, not at all in fact. I've got no idea what you're talking about. Without direct reference to what you're reading between my lines, I have to say, I'm not generalising nor chauvanising at all

jesus man, America this blah blah blah,

I'm going to give my opinion bluntly- the oversexualization of America is destroying this country.

And I'm not going to argue it, because I'm not going to change the minds of people who disagree with me and they aren't going to change mine.

i prefer the sa80

You mean this: http://world.guns.ru/assault/as22-e.htm

To big, bulky and weird looking for me. Prefer things nice, compact, and lighter, with lots of rounds, high rate of fire and high muzzle velocity.

Answer: http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg13-e.htm

jesus man, America this blah blah blah,

Not just America. It's certainly a trand on the rise in a majority of "western" nations

*reads the first post only* Send them to a reeducation camp. If that doesn't work, shoot them.

.....What?

*reads the first post only* Send them to a reeducation camp. If that doesn't work, shoot them.

.....What?
Hey, there are probably some people around here who would agree with that. :p

You mean this: http://world.guns.ru/assault/as22-e.htm

To big, bulky and weird looking for me. Prefer things nice, compact, and lighter, with lots of rounds, high rate of fire and high muzzle velocity.

Answer: http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg13-e.htm

i have a thing for the sa80 carbine (not featured there)

'15-year old gives blow-jobs: Shock Horror!' I had a blow-job from a 15 year-old when I was 16. Guess what? She's 23 and doing fine. I'm fine. It's all ok!

Was there ever a time or place when this didn't happen? No. The fact is that girls that age are mostly well through puberty and biologically (if not always mentally) ready for sex. It shouldn't surprise anyone that they want to do that. It has always happened and will continue to do so. Girls used to get married off at the age of 12.

It is the responsibility of the parents to ensure that girls (and boys, but this article isn't so bothered about that) are prepared to deal with these sort of things, and don't get overwhelmed, but the idea that girls want to engage in sexual activities at that age is not a sign of moral corruption but a sign of nature at work. Girls aren't being 'turned into' anything - they are merely being allowed to express themselves at an earlier age. I stress that that is not to say that they should be allowed to do so, because it may be psychologically damaging to them even if nature says otherwise, but merely an attempt to get this debate talking about the right issues.

There is probably evidence that earlier involvement in sex is damaging to girls. In that case let's have a debate on those terms, and discuss what the problem is there. I don't believe that it happens any more now than it used to, but I think that it has always been a problem. I think that it's time to move forwards rather than backwards.

Yes, but I do agree with my more conservative associates, while they may be sexually mature, there is a big difference between becoming sexually active and dressing up like a hooker or acting like a slut.

That being said, I think this whole article blows things out of proportions, I don't see ANY of this in my city of Lansing, Michigan and we are the capital of the state and leading producer of automobiles in the country (tons of factories, inner city, etc) in the middle of Chicago and Detroit.

While it is a problem, it isn't doomsday, sometimes people just get into a "we are all screwed, your all evil" rut, I know I have. :/

Society needs to change, not nessacarily banning sexual practices before the age of majority, but at least ushering in a new era of social responsibility.

One can be sexually active at 17, not get pregnant and not dress like a slut, eventually getting married and becoming a loving mother, etc.

I read the first line of that, then I smiled and hit the 'Close' key:D.

You want to fight "Sin"? Stop picking on free dress and go after murderers, rapists, liars, cheaters, swindlers, and other criminals. No, wait, they all go to Heaven, it's the gays and punks that are the devils that need to be stopped :D (sarcasm).

The thread starter here has a skewed view on things... But thanks for making me laugh.

i agree, america has lost its way morally. please bring it back to its proud, american indian slaughtering, kidnapping, slave labour using, women oppressing, nuke dropping, protesting student shooting, right wing, racist heritidge.

it was a sad day for us all when amerca lost these core moral values that came along with its religion that supposedly preaches love, compassion, peace, forgiveness and equality.

:headbang:

What do ya think about this?

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/heraldleader/news/local/3431522.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/features/students070899.htm


I remember seeing something about these "parties" on Oprah a yr or so ago...
http://www.oprah.com/tows/pastshows/tows_2002/tows_past_20020507_b.jhtml
http://www.howardstern.com/oprah.php

i agree, america has lost its way morally. please bring it back to its proud, american indian slaughtering, kidnapping, slave labour using, women oppressing, nuke dropping, protesting student shooting, right wing, racist heritidge.
:headbang:
You know, the left wing is just as racist (Affirmative Action, Political Correctness, etc) and that post is flamebaiting

What do ya think about this?

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/heraldleader/news/local/3431522.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/features/students070899.htm


I remember seeing something about these "parties" on Oprah a yr or so ago...
http://www.oprah.com/tows/pastshows/tows_2002/tows_past_20020507_b.jhtml
http://www.howardstern.com/oprah.php

I think that as these kids recognise there's a big difference between oral and vanilla sex, it's not doing much harm.

Besides which, humans are sexually active from day 1. We're designed to reproduce anytime from 12 to 14, not 17 and 18. And I very much doubt this is news, I think we're just more able to admit it now than we were in past times.

Who the fuck can dictate what is "moral"?

You know, the left wing is just as racist (Affirmative Action, Political Correctness, etc) and that post is flamebaiting
Political correctness is good to a certain degree.

A country should be judged by tolerance towards other people's actions even if they may seem morally deviant by some people as long as they are not harming others physically or breaking the law people should not impose their beliefs by force but try and engage in rational and civil discussion between all parties involved.

You know, the left wing is just as racist (Affirmative Action, Political Correctness, etc) and that post is flamebaiting

Don't judge the whole left by what some centre-right politicos in America believe.

Frankly, I don't see what the problem is.

So fucking what if they wear that stuff, and so fucking what if one of the most popular TV shows is about "desperate housewives"?

You know, it's more "moral" to be tolerant than it is to force your ideals upon others.

Good one. No need to write my own reply. *thefts post and runs away*

http://havok.lothlorien.nu/helen.jpg

Won't somebody please think of the children!!???!!!

I do. It's called teaching them tollerace and modernism.

MMmmm little girls with thongs....Come into my car little girl...I have candy

The US certainly does have huge moral failings. Excess lust and sexuality is not one of them, however. The US isn't the place that invented S/M or tentacle rape. The US's true sin is it's bigotry, aggression, and dangerous asceticism that has convinced millions that they are inherently evil and need churches, bosses, and governments to save them from natural and harmless emotions and desires.

MMmmm little girls with thongs....Come into my car little girl...I have candy

Now that's just creepy!

The US certainly does have huge moral failings. Excess lust and sexuality is not one of them, however. The US isn't the place that invented S/M or tentacle rape.

Okay, just for my own knowledge because I'm curious. Do you like or dislike Japanese culture Letila? I mean, from your Trigun sig it seems you like it, but then you talk about the paraphilia that grips the nation.

Just a wee bit confused...

Frankly, I don't see what the problem is.

So fucking what if they wear that stuff, and so fucking what if one of the most popular TV shows is about "desperate housewives"?

You know, it's more "moral" to be tolerant than it is to force your ideals upon others.really... but isn't forcing your idea of Tolerance on others the same as others forcing their "morals" on you?

and what about Colombine and those other schools where kids with guns are shooting people... reports of Teen rapes going on... Kids committing crimes cuz they know they'll get a slap on the wrist. you don't see the problem? Where in America do you live?

Who the fuck can dictate what is "moral"?

Ican!

Good one. No need to write my own reply. *thefts post and runs away*
Potaria usually post my opinions then I look like an ass-kisser. :headbang:

I can!
My lord forgive me!

Ugh.. It really is sad.. as a girl who is a teen and is living through it. It really is disgusting. Don't get me wrong, I am no where near Christian (I was an Athiest all throughout middle school and then Thurn Agnostic a year or two ago, just because I think either side is too cocky for me).

God, I cannot tell you how hard it is to shop nowadays. I HATE SHOPPING. and you know what else? My own MOTHER tries to get me to dress like THAT. I used to dress in baggy clothes just because I didn't want to look like "them"/skanky whore-ish. My mom would YELL at me for it, and she would drag me to go shopping with her, show me a super tight shirt, and When I sai dI thought it wasn't my taste, she would YELL at me. God, I hated her for it. Luckily, now that I am 17, I don't listen to her anymore. I don't dress in baggy clothes, but I don't show skin like most girls do and wear thongs.

This got me thinking. When I was in 5th grade I had a really good girl friend who was a year older than me (we started being friends when we were like 4). She was my best and almost only friend. Just when I became a 4-5th grader (and she a 5-6th grader) she totally avoided me. She thought I was too childish. She stayed inside all day talking on the phone, laying about. Having girls her age over (even though I was only one year younger). Then she started dressing in tight clothes. One of my neighbor's saw through a window her giving a blow job to some dude. I was like.. good god.

the Article really hit home because I realized that I really COULDN'T be a kid. I mean I still was, but since everyone my age was suddenly whoring themselves around, I played with kids as young as 4 years younger than me, just so I could be myself. My friend literally went from toys to boys, and god that hurt >< .

I remember when I was 12 or so, and a girl I started to become friends with came over. All was well... until she tried pressuring me into things. She had me call some phone sex thing for 18 yearolds and up. It was awful. I hung up right as soon as I hear some dude's voice. Then she would always brag about how much sex she gets, ect. I never gave into that kind of thinking.. hmm.. she tried to get me to sniff fumes too, in a paper bag. I didn't do that, either =P

The basis of this is, again, the american culture of greed and consumerism.

This sexualization is *marketed* by *corporations* the idea being to maximize corporate profits.

I don't think this has anything to do with morals.

It's just sad because every year women are viewed more and more as just some sex toy (in my view). Now even little girls are being viewed as sex toys. We can't even have innocent fun anymore. Maybe it's why a large amount of the girl/women population are screwy. Though, a large amount of the men population just disgust me. >< Freaks

You know what I like - Skittles, tropical Skittles...

Ugh.. It really is sad.. as a girl who is a teen and is living through it. It really is disgusting. Don't get me wrong, I am no where near Christian (I was an Athiest all throughout middle school and then Thurn Agnostic a year or two ago, just because I think either side is too cocky for me).

God, I cannot tell you how hard it is to shop nowadays. I HATE SHOPPING. and you know what else? My own MOTHER tries to get me to dress like THAT. I used to dress in baggy clothes just because I didn't want to look like "them"/skanky whore-ish. My mom would YELL at me for it, and she would drag me to go shopping with her, show me a super tight shirt, and When I sai dI thought it wasn't my taste, she would YELL at me. God, I hated her for it. Luckily, now that I am 17, I don't listen to her anymore. I don't dress in baggy clothes, but I don't show skin like most girls do and wear thongs.

This got me thinking. When I was in 5th grade I had a really good girl friend who was a year older than me (we started being friends when we were like 4). She was my best and almost only friend. Just when I became a 4-5th grader (and she a 5-6th grader) she totally avoided me. She thought I was too childish. She stayed inside all day talking on the phone, laying about. Having girls her age over (even though I was only one year younger). Then she started dressing in tight clothes. One of my neighbor's saw through a window her giving a blow job to some dude. I was like.. good god.

the Article really hit home because I realized that I really COULDN'T be a kid. I mean I still was, but since everyone my age was suddenly whoring themselves around, I played with kids as young as 4 years younger than me, just so I could be myself. My friend literally went from toys to boys, and god that hurt >< .

I remember when I was 12 or so, and a girl I started to become friends with came over. All was well... until she tried pressuring me into things. She had me call some phone sex thing for 18 yearolds and up. It was awful. I hung up right as soon as I hear some dude's voice. Then she would always brag about how much sex she gets, ect. I never gave into that kind of thinking.. hmm.. she tried to get me to sniff fumes too, in a paper bag. I didn't do that, either =P

I empathize with you, I really do.

n MY day, I mean that happens - people grow up and start getting all sexual. But that doesn't mean everyone has to become a skank. Back in my day everyone would be 'into' sex and such, but not 'really' engage in activity. The ones who did were always the skanky, dirty kids who we all knew must have had abusive parents or something.

Now it really seems like, no one gives a fuck. That is to say everyone gives a fuck. Pedophilia is even a "political belief" nowadays thanks to the likes of NAMBLA. There IS a moral destruction going on, and it's a choice made (or not made, like you!) by everyone.

It's just easier to pass the dime. "Hey everyone's doing it." If all my friends have sex with goats, maybe I better consider it too. Wouldn't want to be left out.

A losing battle. America will be festering in it's own nasty juices like Babylon, like decadent Rome. Actually, it really already is isn't it.

A losing battle. America will be festering in it's own nasty juices like Babylon, like decadent Rome. Actually, it really already is isn't it.
Because of opinions that believe we should focus more on personal morals than actual important thing will our nation fall. Education is good, but all of the fear of moral decadence prevents proper education of our younger population which ironically leads to this shit

Because of opinions that believe we should focus more on personal morals than actual important thing will our nation fall. Education is good, but all of the fear of moral decadence prevents proper education of our younger population which ironically leads to this shit
Precisely, everyone has to ahev this exact or that exact way, all the while the bigger picture just turned into dust under their holier-than-thou attitude.

Because of opinions that believe we should focus more on personal morals than actual important thing will our nation fall. Education is good, but all of the fear of moral decadence prevents proper education of our younger population which ironically leads to this shit

I don't think people are fearful of moral decadence. Not really. People embrace it, because if the nation is morally decadent, it's easier to justify one's own behaviors. And certainly there's not much fear in the education system, when you have PTAs everywhere incouraging pre-teen cheerleading squads... you know, because shaking your pom-poms is an athletic activity, therefore sport therefore GOOD. Kind of like how NAMBLA has it that 'wanting pedophilia to be legal' is a 'political belief' and therefore protected under the constitution. Hooray for enlightened groups of idiots voting in moral decay!

I don't think people are fearful of moral decadence.
I don't think you realise this is the 6th page of this thread. And get off NAMBLA, they've been there for a while, get over it, they won't be allowed to do anything. I think you are ironically one of the people most obsessed with the fear of moral decadence in this thread while claiming people arn't afraid of it

I don't think you realise this is the 6th page of this thread. And get off NAMBLA, they've been there for a while, get over it, they won't be allowed to do anything. I think you are ironically one of the people most obsessed with the fear of moral decadence in this thread while claiming people arn't afraid of it

I'm one of the few people who isn't chill with this sort of thing. Sorry if that annoys you.

And I don't realize it's the 6th page, to me it says it's the 3rd because I have different forum settings. So... nyah!

I am not quite for the whole "no teen sex thing". I just don't like young women being objects. And I AM against sex for people between ages 1 yrs old (Lol) and 16. I think the way the girls dress is worse than sex itself sometimes. It just degrades the women who want to be known as a purposeful person.

One thing I am disliking is casual sex. I mean, to each their own, but when you are a teenager you really need to learn about respect and love before you have sex. I don't care in a 21 year old has casual sex (though I myself owuldn't do it), but when you are younger you need to learn how to treat the opposite sex appropiately and all.

I think the casual teen sex kind of degrades those that actually have feelings with sex, whether they be 17, 21, or 40.

I also don't understand why the young women give multiple men pleasure, and yet recieve none themselves.

Honestly, this is part of cultural evolution...get over it.


Its cultural degredation. Our culture peaked in the 1950's.

Kahta, burn your tv and computer, and homeschool your daughters. Don't ruin it for us who like this evolution.


This is not good, its promoting a society of gangsterism, whores, and whore-mongering.

I am not quite for the whole "no teen sex thing". I just don't like young women being objects. And I AM against sex for people between ages 1 yrs old (Lol) and 16. I think the way the girls dress is worse than sex itself sometimes. It just degrades the women who want to be known as a purposeful person.

One thing I am disliking is casual sex. I mean, to each their own, but when you are a teenager you really need to learn about respect and love before you have sex. I don't care in a 21 year old has casual sex (though I myself owuldn't do it), but when you are younger you need to learn how to treat the opposite sex appropiately and all.

I think the casual teen sex kind of degrades those that actually have feelings with sex, whether they be 17, 21, or 40.

I also don't understand why the young women give multiple men pleasure, and yet recieve none themselves.

I am only going to have sex once I am married. If I was unable to hold myself to that statement, I would pray to God for forgiveness. Casual sex is for reprobate.

Girls give men pleasure because they want the guy to like them. Thats all.

I'm going to give my opinion bluntly- the oversexualization of America is destroying this country.



Not just that, but gangsterism, corporatism, neo-conservatism, and many other things that destroy our country. I think the first step to stop it would be banning rap music, then eliminating "gangster" culture from America.

What do ya think about this?

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/heraldleader/news/local/3431522.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/features/students070899.htm


I remember seeing something about these "parties" on Oprah a yr or so ago...
http://www.oprah.com/tows/pastshows/tows_2002/tows_past_20020507_b.jhtml
http://www.howardstern.com/oprah.php


Those are just disgusting.

I don't think this has anything to do with morals.

It's just sad because every year women are viewed more and more as just some sex toy (in my view). Now even little girls are being viewed as sex toys. We can't even have innocent fun anymore. Maybe it's why a large amount of the girl/women population are screwy. Though, a large amount of the men population just disgust me. >< Freaks

Whores and whore-mongers are the terms I prefer to use.

Guys, guys, guys!

Yes, young girls should not be wearing thongs. But stop blaming this on corporations! It's the parent's fault! If their kid doesn't respond to them on acting like a little whore, they have to take some action!

Not just that, but gangsterism, corporatism, neo-conservatism, and many other things that destroy our country. I think the first step to stop it would be banning rap music, then eliminating "gangster" culture from America.

I'm not sure gangsterism is a real word, but I get your point. Its funny, reading your posts, I get a distinct religious vibe, yet I see your against neo-conservatism. Interesting seeing that their most devout followers are devout christians.

I'm disappointed in your theory about rap(hip-hop), i'm not saying there isn't alot of it that's come out in the past 5 years that promotes nothing but materialism and self-indulgence. The fact is, there are alot of artists who use hip-hop as a medium for promoting positive messages(KRS-ONE, Mos Def, A Tribe Called Quest), but you'd have to be informed in that field to know that, which is why I found your comment to be a bit naive.

Chew on it for a bit, I await your response.......

Its cultural degredation. Our culture peaked in the 1950's.

Hardly. The US was even worse then, if that was even possible. Bigotry was the law and socialists were persecuted widely.

Okay, just for my own knowledge because I'm curious. Do you like or dislike Japanese culture Letila? I mean, from your Trigun sig it seems you like it, but then you talk about the paraphilia that grips the nation.

Just a wee bit confused...

I like anime but I don't like Japan, just like I like The Matrix but don't like the US.

Yeah, I laughed like hell at the part when the guy said our culture peaked in the 1950s...

I have a great idea guys! Let's go back to the days when the Negroes were supposed to happy and complicent in their seperate (and much poorer) schools and stores while Massa had all the goodies, when women never wore anything immodest (ever!), and when the Commie Scum are not considered citizens.

Yep, American values are sexualizing teenagers at younger and younger ages. No one seems to mind too much. I was in the minority and still am when faced with the prospect of my former elementary school getting a cheerleading team. I've always thought dressing little girls up in short dresses and making them dance around for the sheer purpose of 'stimulating' excellent performance in the football team and for making a buncha PTA assholes get a moral 'rise' out of it was absolutely balls-out perverted, and I've been flamed whenever I bring the subject up, online or offline, amongst mixed crowds. It's old-fashioned of me, you see.

Regardless, I'm not about to go blaming corporations and society when it's the responsibility of each parent to raise their children, and each child not to turn into a skanky abuse-victim-turnaround teen prostitute. People don't believe in responsibility, so this is what we get.

One more reason why I'm not having kids.


That is not a reason not to have kids, I had two of them. They aren't like that, my daughter thought she'd try that on, and quickly realized that I was RIGHT about revealing clothes being more of a prison than even a burka.

I do blame corporations a bit, what they insist on people wearing to work has a cultural influence, corporate dress codes make it very hard to turn the trend of over a 100 years of immodesty around on an individual basis. Corporations also have factories in China and Bangladesh make these things, like the thongs and the tube tops. They sell these things and benefit from them. They have as a collection of collective entities power no individual has on it's own, that no family or even a church has on it's own.

Since most Americans are working too hard to have time to sew their own stuff and would not be allowed to wear that to work if they did, because it would not look 'proffessional' the 'Sew your own' idea doesn't hold water for most people.

Most people empty-headedly and heedlessly buy stuff in the stores because it is what is there for them.

I personally do sew a lot of my own things. That is not usual in this country.

Speaking of churches, since modesty is at least somewhat of a religious value, uuum just a little don't you think ? Shouldn't churches be more involved in getting women and girls to see the value of more modest attire?

I've seen women wear some very immodest and inappropriate things to church.

I'm not sure gangsterism is a real word, but I get your point. Its funny, reading your posts, I get a distinct religious vibe, yet I see your against neo-conservatism. Interesting seeing that their most devout followers are devout christians.

I'm disappointed in your theory about rap(hip-hop), i'm not saying there isn't alot of it that's come out in the past 5 years that promotes nothing but materialism and self-indulgence. The fact is, there are alot of artists who use hip-hop as a medium for promoting positive messages(KRS-ONE, Mos Def, A Tribe Called Quest), but you'd have to be informed in that field to know that, which is why I found your comment to be a bit naive.

Chew on it for a bit, I await your response.......

I would bet that Kahta is Muslim, that or a SERIOUS Christian. A REAL Christian instead of the amateur night wanna-be sort of Christian one sees in the U.S.
That or doing some really interesting culture jamming!
Collumland, it isn't necessary to be politically conservative to be religious. The fact you say that just proves a point I often make with my friends, that it is bad that religion of all sorts has been hijacked by the right wing.
Further a person could be right wing 'religious' AND actually fail to live by religious or even conservative values, but to talk as if that were their most cherished system of ideals.

On rap, guys, some rap is ok, and some is nothing but filth. Same could be said of country music, which more often than not is about hitting the bars, adultery, and hypocritical behavior of all sorts.

I like anime but I don't like Japan, just like I like The Matrix but don't like the US.they are trying to improve alot of their... images... but it does take time...

I would bet that Kahta is Muslim, that or a SERIOUS Christian. A REAL Christian instead of the amateur night wanna-be sort of Christian one sees in the U.S.
He's just a troll

He's just a trollA very well-eshablished one at that.

http://www.boston.com/ae/media/articles/2005/03/12/the_disappearing_tween_years/

America is a nation of sin. This is just awful. I read the whole article over breakfast this morning, and I read it again. I can't believe how awful this is. I don't know whow I missed it when I was in middle school.
*Chuckles, scoffs, begins to sing* "My country 'tis of thee..."

Seriously, is this supposed to be a shock?

I would bet that Kahta is Muslim, that or a SERIOUS Christian. A REAL Christian instead of the amateur night wanna-be sort of Christian one sees in the U.S.
That or doing some really interesting culture jamming!
Collumland, it isn't necessary to be politically conservative to be religious. The fact you say that just proves a point I often make with my friends, that it is bad that religion of all sorts has been hijacked by the right wing.
Further a person could be right wing 'religious' AND actually fail to live by religious or even conservative values, but to talk as if that were their most cherished system of ideals.

On rap, guys, some rap is ok, and some is nothing but filth. Same could be said of country music, which more often than not is about hitting the bars, adultery, and hypocritical behavior of all sorts.

I'm a Calvinist. Thats a type of chrisitan.

As a high school student, I'm disgusted that this thread even exists.

I'm tired, tired, TIRED, of being told that we're "not ready for sex" and that our brains "aren't developed enough yet. Kids have the same range of intelligence and maturity as adults - there are some kids that are far more ready to engage in sexual activities or exercise their rights to vote than some adults. Why should age as an arbitrary standard exist in this context?

Before someone starts telling me what I do is immoral, think about what that means. Why is consenting sex between younger people immoral? Because it's sex, right? But why should sex be different from other forms of pleasure, say eating? You say sex is necessary for procreation and thus holds some sort of special place in society? I say so is eating.

Stop trying to enforce your morality on me. I'm full well cognizant of the choices I make. Until you can prove that it's not true, I'll continue making choices on my own, based on what I think is right.

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Disclaimer: The "you" referred to in this post isn't anyone in particular. It's just there for stylistic purposes.

I'm a Calvinist. Thats a type of chrisitan.

Oh no, please, I hate determinism.

I think there's a typo on page three of the article. Of course, I could just be ignorant, but is there really such a thing as a, "bat mitzvah"?

wait... that's not the point at all...

I think there's a typo on page three of the article. Of course, I could just be ignorant, but is there really such a thing as a, "bat mitzvah"?

wait... that's not the point at all...

Yes, there is. http://www.answers.com/topic/bat-mitzvah

YES!!! Whooo! I learned something new about religion today! Thanks.

Guys, guys, guys!

Yes, young girls should not be wearing thongs. But stop blaming this on corporations! It's the parent's fault! If their kid doesn't respond to them on acting like a little whore, they have to take some action!

Corporations create demand through advertising, there has never been a generation whose parents have been able to dissuade them from giving in to society's pressures. The media effectively invents our societal pressures in the US, so parents are on the whole helpless to fix these problems.

YES!!! Whooo! I learned something new about religion today! Thanks.
No problem. :D

Corporations create demand through advertising, there has never been a generation whose parents have been able to dissuade them from giving in to society's pressures. The media effectively invents our societal pressures in the US, so parents are on the whole helpless to fix these problems.me!! my parents wouldn't go for the "but everyone has em" exscuse. unless it was something I needed.
My parents taught me my morals and I am proud to have em.

me!! my parents wouldn't go for the "but everyone has em" exscuse. unless it was something I needed.
My parents taught me my morals and I am proud to have em.


Indeed, but I am talking about the aggregate.

Indeed, but I am talking about the aggregate.oh well it's easier to blame the gov and the corps and sue em for money...

As a high school student, I'm disgusted that this thread even exists.

I'm tired, tired, TIRED, of being told that we're "not ready for sex" and that our brains "aren't developed enough yet. Kids have the same range of intelligence and maturity as adults - there are some kids that are far more ready to engage in sexual activities or exercise their rights to vote than some adults. Why should age as an arbitrary standard exist in this context?

Before someone starts telling me what I do is immoral, think about what that means. Why is consenting sex between younger people immoral? Because it's sex, right? But why should sex be different from other forms of pleasure, say eating? You say sex is necessary for procreation and thus holds some sort of special place in society? I say so is eating.

Stop trying to enforce your morality on me. I'm full well cognizant of the choices I make. Until you can prove that it's not true, I'll continue making choices on my own, based on what I think is right.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: The "you" referred to in this post isn't anyone in particular. It's just there for stylistic purposes.


Exactly. I deal with other teenagers every day, and yeah, some of them aren't ready for a platonic relationship, let alone a real one, but a lot of them are. I'm not a fan of random sex, though I have friends who are, but its a matter of personal choice. Anyone trying to take that away doesn't deserve the right to make their own choices any more. Everything has to be about personal choice. Yeah, some teens are stupid, and a number of them seem like prime examples of natural selection at its best, but generalizations are foolish and they weaken any argument.

As a high school student, I'm disgusted that this thread even exists.

I'm tired, tired, TIRED, of being told that we're "not ready for sex" and that our brains "aren't developed enough yet.
the majority of teenagers do not have fully developed frontal cortex connections. the human brain isn't fully developed at birth, and the brain is impacted strongly by changes in puberty, so many aspects of adult reasoning and adult impulse control are not totally established until several years after the onset of puberty. i didn't like being told that when i was 14, but my study of human neuroscience forced me to accept the biological reality. just as a 14 year old boy won't have the full strength of his adult physique, a 14 year old boy will not have the full strength of his adult reasoning.


Kids have the same range of intelligence and maturity as adults - there are some kids that are far more ready to engage in sexual activities or exercise their rights to vote than some adults.

on the intelligence, you are absolutely correct. on the maturity, you are obviously wrong. there are adults who will be far more immature than some kids, but (by definition) the average adult is going to be more mature than the average child. any given individual will be more mature at age 30 than he was at age 12, by definition.


Why should age as an arbitrary standard exist in this context?

because we have to set a cut off for consent. if we didn't, a 45 year old man could claim that the 6 year old he is molesting was actually consenting the whole time, and in many cases the kid would agree that he was consenting. young kids can be convinced to do many things that are unhealthy or unsafe, and if we claim that their agreement is equivalent to adult consent then we lose any power to stop those who would prey upon children. we have to draw a line some place, and it's going to be arbitrary no matter what. yes, there will be some kids who are ready to take on adult responsibilities earlier than others, but for legal purposes we cannot evaluate such ability on a case-by-case basis in any fair manner.

that said, in my personal opinion, the current line is a stupid one. the age of consent should be no higher than 16, and that should be the line for voting, driving, consent, drinking, and the whole shebang. it is pure idiocy to have consent kick in at the same age that most kids are leaving home; this significantly decreases the "steadying" effect of parents, home, and familiar atmosphere, and compounds the drive to experiment in potentially dangerous ways. it's also an unnecessarily high cut off, because the average person will have roughly the same neurological maturity at 16 as they will at 18.


Before someone starts telling me what I do is immoral, think about what that means. Why is consenting sex between younger people immoral? Because it's sex, right?

first of all, i don't think under age sex is "immoral." it's often stupid, and frequently dangerous, but morality has nothing to do with the matter. my objection to young kids having sex is that young kids are significantly less likely to make anything approaching safe choices with sex, and, as a result, are more likely to permanently mess up their lives and the lives of their partners. i also object because of the consent issue; a 12 year old is not capable of giving consent on the level an adult can, so any sexual contact with a 12 year old is non-consentual by definition, and i believe non-consentual sex is unacceptable.

let me be clear: i had sex long before i reached the age of legal consent. i don't regret it, and i know i made wise decisions even though i was under 18. this is one reason why i think 15 or 16 would be a more appropriate age of consent, but there MUST be a limit set to protect children from exploitation. i believe the limit should be set based on the physical ability to exhibit adult frontal cortex function, not based on subjective concepts of "morality" or "purity" like the ones being foisted on teens these days.

But why should sex be different from other forms of pleasure, say eating? You say sex is necessary for procreation and thus holds some sort of special place in society? I say so is eating.
if i need to explain why that comparison is stupid, then you have just proven yourself to be totally unprepared for sex in any way, shape, or form. if you want to encourage people to take teens seriously, you need to abandon that argument in a hurry...it makes you look ignorant and immature to a dangerous degree. i'm one of the strongest advocates of lowering age of consent, but when i hear idiotic notions like this portion of your post it makes me want to RAISE consent to age 30.


Stop trying to enforce your morality on me. I'm full well cognizant of the choices I make. Until you can prove that it's not true, I'll continue making choices on my own, based on what I think is right.

i can prove that the average 14 year old does not have the same neurological development in the reasoning and impulse-moderation areas of the brain as an adult has. i can prove that young teens are physically not capable of giving adult consent. i can prove that, statistically speaking, teens are significantly less likely to make responsible personal choices (in areas like using protection with sex, drinking and driving, abuse of drugs, etc) than adults are. i guess that means i can "enforce my morality" on you, and you have got to take it, right?

here's a hint: throwing down a gauntlet the way you just did is a VERY juvenile tactic, and isn't going to get you anywhere because it is very easy for any adult to take that dare and whup you with it. you come across as a tantrum-throwing child insisting that you shouldn't have to eat your vegitables because they are yucky. i know that's not what you are trying to do, but it's how you come across, so you should probably reconsider how you present yourself if you actually want to accomplish anything. adults aren't going to respond well if you act like an impudent know-it-all, especially when you sprinkle in a healthy measure of the ignorance you have displayed in this post.

as a teen, you are free to make choices on your own, and you are free to evaluate right and wrong for yourself. indeed, i strongly encourage you to do so. however, unless you are prepared to support yourself 100% (no help from government, family, etc), you are going to have to accept other people's rules. as long as you eat food other people pay for, wear clothes other people buy for you, and sleep in a home you do not support, you need to show the propper respect for those who provide for you. if you don't like it, move out...i did, well before i graduated high school, and that experience taught me exactly how immature i really was.

:rolleyes: Kahta, do you miss VE?
Get a grip. People are allowed to make their own choices rather you like them or not.

oh well it's easier to blame the gov and the corps and sue em for money...


I dont blame the government except to the degree that it has made a shameful joke out of american education and thereby created the culture of consumerism for the corporations to exploit, and i dont think suing anyone would help.

Corporations create demand through advertising, there has never been a generation whose parents have been able to dissuade them from giving in to society's pressures. The media effectively invents our societal pressures in the US, so parents are on the whole helpless to fix these problems.

Honestly, take your responsibility as a parent and give them a paddling on the ass with a wooden spoon and they won't do it anymore, if people are so concerned. Christ, people blame it on the corporations rather than the real problems.

Before I get into this next post, I want to see that the sort of angry and unreasoning tone of my last post was due to frustration and a need to rant, not because it accurately represents my opinions. I was a bit hyperbolic, and I'll clarify now.

the majority of teenagers do not have fully developed frontal cortex connections. the human brain isn't fully developed at birth, and the brain is impacted strongly by changes in puberty, so many aspects of adult reasoning and adult impulse control are not totally established until several years after the onset of puberty. i didn't like being told that when i was 14, but my study of human neuroscience forced me to accept the biological reality. just as a 14 year old boy won't have the full strength of his adult physique, a 14 year old boy will not have the full strength of his adult reasoning.
I can grant you the full weight of this argument and still win that enough teens are as prepared as a certain number of adults for top-down ageist morality to be ridiculous. Many adults have poor impulse control and make poor decisions; many teens are calm, detached, and make rational decisions. The entirety of my argument is that qualifications for decisionmaking can't be based on age as that's unfair to far too many individuals; rather, that it should be evaluated on an individual basis.

on the intelligence, you are absolutely correct. on the maturity, you are obviously wrong. there are adults who will be far more immature than some kids, but (by definition) the average adult is going to be more mature than the average child. any given individual will be more mature at age 30 than he was at age 12, by definition.
You misunderstand my argument (Thank you for agreeing with the first part, by the way). I stated that there's the same range of maturity in both teens and adults - there are incredibly immature adults and very mature teenagers. It's not a question of averages (a point on which you're probably correct), but rather one concerning the applicability of generalizations to the group "teenagers" as a whole - as long as there's the same range of maturity, it's at least partially unfair to treat them as an inferior group as a whole.

because we have to set a cut off for consent. if we didn't, a 45 year old man could claim that the 6 year old he is molesting was actually consenting the whole time, and in many cases the kid would agree that he was consenting. young kids can be convinced to do many things that are unhealthy or unsafe, and if we claim that their agreement is equivalent to adult consent then we lose any power to stop those who would prey upon children. we have to draw a line some place, and it's going to be arbitrary no matter what. yes, there will be some kids who are ready to take on adult responsibilities earlier than others, but for legal purposes we cannot evaluate such ability on a case-by-case basis in any fair manner.
The context in which I wrote was consent between two teenagers. Child molestation is horrendous, I agree. But with the exception of an absolute genius (and I don't think any such person has ever, or will ever, exist, but I could be wrong), it would be impossible to constitute a six year old as having the same faculties of consent as a 16 year old. Therefore, this analogy is certainly as demagogic and juvenile as my later eating/sex analogy (which I'll get to later). You're right, in a sense, that the line will be arbitrary to a certain degree, but not very much so when it allows most older teenagers adult status. In fact, your own statement later about people being neurologically the same at 16 and 18 should indicate that your statements about brain development earlier apply differently to those younger than both of those ages.


that said, in my personal opinion, the current line is a stupid one. the age of consent should be no higher than 16, and that should be the line for voting, driving, consent, drinking, and the whole shebang. it is pure idiocy to have consent kick in at the same age that most kids are leaving home; this significantly decreases the "steadying" effect of parents, home, and familiar atmosphere, and compounds the drive to experiment in potentially dangerous ways. it's also an unnecessarily high cut off, because the average person will have roughly the same neurological maturity at 16 as they will at 18.
I agree.

first of all, i don't think under age sex is "immoral." it's often stupid, and frequently dangerous, but morality has nothing to do with the matter. my objection to young kids having sex is that young kids are significantly less likely to make anything approaching safe choices with sex, and, as a result, are more likely to permanently mess up their lives and the lives of their partners. i also object because of the consent issue; a 12 year old is not capable of giving consent on the level an adult can, so any sexual contact with a 12 year old is non-consentual by definition, and i believe non-consentual sex is unacceptable.
The morality comment was not directed at someone with your stance and worldview. There are also multiple checks on unsafe sex practices - of course, in the particular case of the United States, the Bush Administration has eroded many of them by refusing to fund most sex-ed programs that aren't abstinence only and would eliminate another (abortion) if they could. (Note: I don't want this to turn into a discussion on abortion, so if you have problems with that part of the post, start a new thread). The rest of this I've more or less discussed above.


let me be clear: i had sex long before i reached the age of legal consent. i don't regret it, and i know i made wise decisions even though i was under 18. this is one of the main reasons i think 15 or 16 would be a more appropriate age of consent. but there MUST be a limit set, and i believe it should be set based on the physical ability to exhibit adult frontal cortex function. until a certain age a human youth will not have that ability, and i believe it would be wrong to expect young people to display abilities they cannot physically possess.
I agree with most of this, and some of it actually cuts in to your later arguments. But the scientific testing you call for as government's job to determine competence is dangerous, to say the least. When identity becomes part of the realm of the biological, the state gains a dangerous ability to control and regulate its citizenry based on biological standards, thus justifying the delineation of people by biological categories in a state run hierarchy. I could go into this in greater depth, but this also isn't a thread about Foucauldian analysis of power.

if i need to explain why that comparison is stupid, then you have just proven yourself to be totally unprepared for sex in any way, shape, or form. if you want to encourage people to take teens seriously, you need to abandon that argument in a hurry...it makes you look ignorant and immature to a dangerous degree. i'm one of the strongest advocates of lowering age of consent, but when i hear idiotic notions like this portion of your post it makes me want to RAISE consent to age 30.
Here's where your otherwise intelligent post starts sinking into the trap I set up when I wrote the first post. I wrote it with a certain air in order to get people to start thinking about the issues; something I knew would invite a certain degree of ad-hominem attacks like this one. Interestingly enough, you presented no reason as to why the comparison falls flat (I'm not defending it here, just noting that your desire to insult the poster got in the way of logical argument. Wouldn't that be something an immature teenager would do?) My goal was merely to point out societal assumption concerning the special role of sexuality, especially considering that most humans consider animal reproduction to be an act similar to that of those animals eating. That too could invite a whole debate concering whether higher degrees of intelligence transform the role of procreation, but that's neither here nor there.

i can prove that the average 14 year old does not have the same neurological development in the reasoning and impulse-moderation areas of the brain as an adult has. i can prove that young teens are physically not capable of giving adult consent. i can prove that, statistically speaking, teens are significantly less likely to make responsible personal choices (in areas like using protection with sex, drinking and driving, abuse of drugs, etc) than adults are. i guess that means i can "enforce my morality" on you, and you have got to take it, right?
Actually, I'm not sure you can prove much of this. More adults die of drunk driving and drug overdoes than teens do every year BY FAR. Of course, the relevent issue is percentages, but even then, I think that you'll find much more of a correlation to final level of education/socio-economic class then age (This is not to say that poor people are inherently more inclined to do "bad" things than wealthy ones. On the contrary, its designed to point out the flaws in a system which exerts such psychological pressure relating to economic status that it drives people to such things). Also, alcoholism is far more prevelent among adults than kids. The morality comment was pointed mostly to sex. Also, your earlier argument about how the age for drugs, alcohol, and consent seems to create an interesting contradiction with this last paragraph.

here's a hint: throwing down a gauntlet the way you just did is a VERY juvenile tactic, and isn't going to get you anywhere because it is very easy for any adult to take that dare and whup you with it. you come across as a tantrum-throwing child insisting that you shouldn't have to eat your vegitables because they are yucky. i know that's not what you are trying to do, but it's how you come across, so you should probably reconsider how you present yourself if you actually want to accomplish anything. adults aren't going to respond well if you act like an impudent know-it-all, especially when you sprinkle in a healthy measure of the ignorance you have displayed in this post.
This was more or less part of the response I wanted to provoke. Attack the author, not the work. Particularly since you didn't isolate instances of "ignorance" very well. The proverbial gauntlet was also designed in part as a attention-getting tactic - this issue is largely ignored by the majority of the population, and I wanted to start a conversation on it that wasn't occuring. Also, this "yucky vegetables" line simply doesn't apply when we're dealing with grander issues such as personal liberty and the role of the state in the lives of individuals. I'll give YOU a hint: The greatest political thinkers across generations didn't spend their time thinking about broccoli.

as a teen, you are free to make choices on your own, and you are free to evaluate right and wrong for yourself. indeed, i strongly encourage you to do so. however, unless you are prepared to support yourself 100% (no help from government, family, etc), you are going to have to accept other people's rules. as long as you eat food other people pay for, wear clothes other people buy for you, and sleep in a home you do not support, you need to show the propper respect for those who provide for you. if you don't like it, move out...i did, well before i graduated high school, and that experience taught me exactly how immature i really was.
This implies that a condition of that support is an absolute subordination to all of those rules. I was brought up to question rules administered top-down; to develop my own opinion and not listen to what other people say simply because they hold a position of power, over me or the country in general. Believing the government on the WMD question taught me the hard way (given the flak I took afterwards) that just because people have power doesn't mean they're right. So no, I don't have to acceed to something I think is wrong just because people in power say it's right. To do otherwise would deny the purpose of democracy itself. Think about the grander implications of what you say before you say it. It's a hallmark of maturity (sorry, I couldn't resist).

:rolleyes: Kahta, do you miss VE?
Get a grip. People are allowed to make their own choices rather you like them or not.

Yes, I do miss him. I hope he is allowed back.

I actually got along with him fairly well even though we both thought the other one was nuts. I may IM him and see if he cares if I give you his address, if you don't already have it.

I actually got along with him fairly well even though we both thought the other one was nuts. I may IM him and see if he cares if I give you his address, if you don't already have it.


I talk to him on MSN and AIM all the time, I suppose you could say he and I are friends.

Damn, where were these girls when I was that age?


Seriously, do you know the amount of work I had to put in to get laid in high school?

I talk to him on MSN and AIM all the time, I suppose you could say he and I are friends.

I'm not surprised. He's a decent guy when you talk to him one on one. But we fundamentally disagree on too many things. Say "hi" for me.

I'm not surprised. He's a decent guy when you talk to him one on one. But we fundamentally disagree on too many things. Say "hi" for me.
That's why he gets along with Kahta, anyone that gets along with Kahta inherently doesn't get along with "normal" people. The kind of differences between Kahta and "normal" people cannot be reconciled

Personally, I think the culture of "sexualization" in America is due simply to most Americans' inability to have a frank discussion on sex. What I think we need is to inject a little honesty into the system - parents especially need to discuss sexuality with their children. Mine were forced to deal with the issue when I was eight, because that's when I started asking the questions. And believe me, kids are pretty bright, and can tell when someone's feeding them a bunch of baloney. If parents establish a solid basis for being honest and forthcoming, kids won't think that their friends somehow have "the good stuff" because they've learned to disregard their parents' "information" as false.

I think that people need to face the fact that kids are being exposed to things like sexuality earlier, and the antidote for this is openness, not poorly-conceived concealment. The occasional boost to a kid's self-worth isn't a bad idea either.

Personally, I think the culture of "sexualization" in America is due simply to most Americans' inability to have a frank discussion on sex. What I think we need is to inject a little honesty into the system - parents especially need to discuss sexuality with their children. Mine were forced to deal with the issue when I was eight, because that's when I started asking the questions. And believe me, kids are pretty bright, and can tell when someone's feeding them a bunch of baloney. If parents establish a solid basis for being honest and forthcoming, kids won't think that their friends somehow have "the good stuff" because they've learned to disregard their parents' "information" as false.

I think that people need to face the fact that kids are being exposed to things like sexuality earlier, and the antidote for this is openness, not poorly-conceived concealment. The occasional boost to a kid's self-worth isn't a bad idea either.

http://www.archive.org/movies/movieslisting-browse.php?collection=prelinger&cat=Sex%20education

I think the videos there do a good job teaching sex ed.

(not sarcasm)

I believe in real sex education. Something that deals realistically with the risks and rewards, not silly propaganda that is disguised moralizing. Abstinence only doesn't work. You'd think sometime in the last 10,000 years somebody would figure it out.

I believe in real sex education. Something that deals realistically with the risks and rewards, not silly propaganda that is disguised moralizing. Abstinence only doesn't work. You'd think sometime in the last 10,000 years somebody would figure it out.


They should be taught about all the bad parts, and how its sinning. And then give the students advice on something else to do.

They should be taught about all the bad parts, and how its sinning. And then give the students advice on something else to do.
Emphasis added where your idea falls through a credibility hole in the floor

They should be taught about all the bad parts, and how its sinning.

Hahahahahah! That's just too silly even for a comment.

K is far more level-headed sounding on AIM than on this thread.

I don't like getting into religion, though, and certainly not the religious side of this thread. Theist and atheist clashings on forums tend to get very ugly.

They should be taught about all the bad parts, and how its sinning. And then give the students advice on something else to do.

Uh...because it's worked so well in the past? :rolleyes:

I love how some conservative religionists seem to think that a kid can't understand the biological concept of sex or fathom the emotional issues involved, but are capable of discerning the theological implications of sin. I mean, sex is designed to feel gratifying, physically and psychologically (if done right, anyway). Now imagine the internal conflict a teenager must experience when they are on the verge of a sexual encounter, and the only advice they have regarding the situation is that it's "evil, dirty, and wrong".

Contrast that to a teenager who has been educated on methods of contraception and preventing STDs, and whose parents, while certainly not condoning sexual activity in the teenage years, at least have the presence of mind to consider the possibility.

Who is more likely to use a condom? Which is more likely to result in a teenage pregnancy? Which of the above two is more likely to approach sexuality from a rational and logical perspective rather than from one borne of superstition and half-truth?

I rest my case.

They should be taught about all the bad parts, and how its sinning. And then give the students advice on something else to do.
There are a lot of people who don't believe it's a sin. If you want you're kids to learn only a religious view of sex, they can opt out of sex ed. Relgious views don't belong in public schools. People have been taught pre-marital and extra-marital sex are sins for millenia, and the success has been very limited. Studies show teen pregnancy rates were even higher in the "innocent" 1950's. It doesn't work. Quite lying to young people and they might actually listen.

EDIT: When Jocelyn Elders suggested we teach kids about mastrubation as an alternative, she was sacked.

Certainly have to side with the others in this case.

Sex is a natural thing and life forms would have not gone beyond the sea without it. Deriding it will not work, and even if you do that and promote abstinence it won't work at all, teenagers are hormonal and will have sex anyway. That's why Texas has the highest teenage pregnancy rate in the country, last I checked.

The most practical solution is teaching safer methods of sex.

So let all just go back to living by the scriptures in the bible!!

Oh wait...

if you live your life according to the scriptures, how often do you have to beat your wife? And how much is your daughter worth to you when she is to be sold into slavery? And, how often do you go to a stoning for someone who works on Saturday? Do you like shrimp, or clams, or oysters? How about pork? How many people do you have to sacrifice to god (Judges 11:30-39). How often do depraved homosexuals come banging on your door, demanding that you give up your house guests to be sodomized, and have you offer your own daughter instead? How many foreskins of Philistines do you have to take? What about slaying a man in order to take his wife (2 Samuel 11:14-27). And, how often do children have to be slain for their father's sins (2 Samuel 12:1)? How many children are to be beheaded with the heads being sent to their father (2 Kings 10:7)?

Ok, bad idea. Really, REALLY bad idea...

If you want to see the atheist part of right wing, just look at the cutthroat corporations that market all this sexual crap to tweens.

I remember when I was in the middle school part of a Catholic school, there were classmates that had regular sex and oral sex every week. There was also a high rate of drug use. In my private high school, there was the same or even higher rate of drug and alcohol use and the same sex rate. On non-uniform days, some of the girls looked like they would be right at home on some sleezy downtown corner or at Deja Vu even though the school tried to enforce a standards code on these days.

Then again, I wonder why anyone would wear a pastel pinstriped shirt or pay $200 for jeans already prebleached, pretorn, and prestained.

Our culture is now a shallow and consumerist shell of its former self and is lead by the "popular" people who live in Generica. This is why we are having a hard time with immigrants and intregation. A lot of those people come from traditional and conservative societies. Although that may not be true anymore especially in regards to Latin America and SE Asia.

A good indication of how far our culture has fallen is cable. Back in the day, I practically learned a whole schoolday's worth of knowledge on history, nature and etc just buy watching Discovery or The Learning Channel for a couple hours. Now, Discovery is the Motorcycle Shop channel and TLC is the Interior Decoration channel. One probably couldn't get a classtime's worth of knowledge now from those channels. Then, you got all of those reality shows like that Fox one about the person looking for her real father....

Maybe, they could show the actual effects of STD's to people. The shock and awe with extra gross factor treatment always works.

Lastly, another interesting thing is that when Sanrio (the makers of Hello Kitty) did some research on sales around the world, it found that stuff they had marketed to 4-7 year old girls in the US were being bought regularly by 20-30 year old women in Japan!

This is why the dems must be removed from all public offices. Cause they condone this stuff. They condone terrorism and they condone evil.
Uhh... what?

Uhh... what?


Don't pay him any mind --- he's just a perpetually stupid troll.

The number of trolls who aren't perpetually stupid is small indeed.

Moral degerneracy just makes the world more interesting. Certainly not better, but more interesting. Suffering gives us something to look forward to, and - pay no attention, I'm drunk. :gundge:

Moral degerneracy just makes the world more interesting. Certainly not better, but more interesting. Suffering gives us something to look forward to, and - pay no attention, I'm drunk. :gundge:
Moral living is boring. Debauchery and degredation are where its at, quite fun.

The deal in the US is that you are not an adult until your 18. Your parents have authority over you until you reach the age of 18 unless you are court ordered emancipated. This all means that the "PARENTS" are responsible for there children. If these "PARENTS" let there children look like little gangster rapper thugs and or whores then its there fault. Lets look at the root problem. Its not TV or advertising and or the kids fault. Lay blame where it belongs.

its true in large part there is a failor of parenting.. But its almost impossible to shield your children anymore from inapropriate content, its everywhere from basic cable to internet, to the schools. Sex runs rampent in elementary/middle schools these days as kids in their early teens are increasingly more sexually active. You may try to shiled your children as much as possible, but it is impossible to do it alone. At some point you have to make the media accountable for selling sex, just as it sold drugs like alcohol and cirgarrets targeting children.

Yes, but I do agree with my more conservative associates, while they may be sexually mature, there is a big difference between becoming sexually active and dressing up like a hooker or acting like a slut.
<snip>
Society needs to change, not nessacarily banning sexual practices before the age of majority, but at least ushering in a new era of social responsibility.

One can be sexually active at 17, not get pregnant and not dress like a slut, eventually getting married and becoming a loving mother, etc.

Um, er... gender roles any? :rolleyes:

ohhh being forced to grow up early ... you know cause it was so much better in the old days :p historical romanticizm is so fun

By the age they are geting into that back in the good old days they could have been maried with kids :p sillyness

To think of it thongs and pushup bras are something I think of the younger rather then the older

At some point you have to make the media accountable for selling sex, just as it sold drugs like alcohol and cirgarrets targeting children.
There is a big difference between companies selling products like drugs and alcohol using television, and the media "selling" sex. Sex isn't a product that can be sold for a profit by television stations. They don't sell anything. They have programs that show exisiting attitudes towards sex. If you think TV makes people have sex I think your confusing cause and effect.

There is a big difference between companies selling products like drugs and alcohol using television, and the media "selling" sex. Sex isn't a product that can be sold for a profit by television stations. They don't sell anything. They have programs that show exisiting attitudes towards sex. If you think TV makes people have sex I think your confusing cause and effect.

they are selling.. ideas.. ideas that drugs are cool... and they sell ideas that sex is cool.. then they simply attribute their products to increasing sexuality and the push products. Advertisement is all about selling ideas, not just products.

And if you simply the process enough.. you can say quite easily, TV does make people have sex.. and when i say people, i mean our youth. but i dont stop at Tv.. magazines, ads, comericals, radio, movies... all of it sells sexuality which leads to sexual activity. If you desensitize youth to ideas of sex, given their hormonal impulses... they will of course engage in sexual acitivity sometimes even reguardless of upbringing and good parenting

they are selling.. ideas.. ideas that drugs are cool... and they sell ideas that sex is cool.. then they simply attribute their products to increasing sexuality and the push products. Advertisement is all about selling ideas, not just products.

And if you simply the process enough.. you can say quite easily, TV does make people have sex.. and when i say people, i mean our youth. but i dont stop at Tv.. magazines, ads, comericals, radio, movies... all of it sells sexuality which leads to sexual activity. If you desensitize youth to ideas of sex, given their hormonal impulses... they will of course engage in sexual acitivity sometimes even reguardless of upbringing and good parenting
They will give into hormonal impulses regardless of parents or TV because they are hormonal impulses. Besides, sex and drugs are cool.

You could make TV a single 24 hour church channel and kids will still have sex.

There are a lot of people who don't believe it's a sin. If you want you're kids to learn only a religious view of sex, they can opt out of sex ed. Relgious views don't belong in public schools. People have been taught pre-marital and extra-marital sex are sins for millenia, and the success has been very limited. Studies show teen pregnancy rates were even higher in the "innocent" 1950's. It doesn't work. Quite lying to young people and they might actually listen.

EDIT: When Jocelyn Elders suggested we teach kids about mastrubation as an alternative, she was sacked.

studies also show teen pregnancy rates post 1950's were much lower.. with the same teaching. And today while we see lower teen pregnancy rates, we see higher teen sexsual acitvity rates occuring in younger and younger age groups. Sceince itself definitivly states children 14, 15, 16 years old are not mentally mature enough to understand the nature of their sexuality and therefor make informed decisions on sexual activity. This is why they cant give consent and if you touch them you go to jail. I dont care how many 16 year olds say they understand the consequences of sex and are ready for it.. they are not.. its that simple. You dont have to be a religious fanatic to read those scientific findings.

As far as im concerned the 1950's was not about a failor in the teaching techquies not that new ones dont have added benifits, but that the failor was in parenting. While the current sex ed courses would theoretically be successful given the "right" cricumstances given this age of failor in parenting the sexsual education we provide only propgates more sexual acitivty in our youth then it does prevent it, as every study in the subject points to.

Teaching a kid how to use a condom and what it does isn't going to make him not have sex.... and if we have now decided its ok for 16 year olds to have sex.. we should be lifiting sodomy laws and allowing 16, 15, and 14 year olds to give their own consent. The fact that we havn't done so shows we are not prepared to say sex within these age groups is acceptable.. and if this is the case, we should be educating our children accordingly not giving them protection only education..

I didn't get oral sex in middle school.

I don't really see much of that, myself.

Um, with regard to age of consent laws, at least in the parts of the U.S. with which I am familiar (Northeast and California), they apply mainly if one person is a legal adult and the other is not. Basically, the protection is there so that a forty-year-old can't coerce a teenager into a sexual relationship that's based more on power than anything else. I don't know of any cases in which two minors were legally punished for having sex with one another.

And I still stand behind my belief that frank and open discussions of sex and sexuality at an early age would clear up a lot of the confusion teenagers have. Take away the mysterious and "forbidden" aspects of it and sex loses its aura of excitement and risk, which might at least encourage younger people to make more responsible choices, including abstinence or use of protection/contraception.

My parents and grandparents assure me that all manner of "immoral" things went on in the 1950s, and everybody knew who was doing what, just like now. The only difference is that people hid these things and pretended that nothing unusual was going on. Now you can say the word "dildo" in public. Big deal.

My bet is that half the sources for this isn't from America... or teenagers.

Also, so what? Which is better, a world well-mannered slaves or pervs by choice?

http://www.boston.com/ae/media/articles/2005/03/12/the_disappearing_tween_years/

America is a nation of sin. This is just awful. I read the whole article over breakfast this morning, and I read it again. I can't believe how awful this is. I don't know whow I missed it when I was in middle school.

:headbang: ...Next thing you'll be telling me is that plagues are among us, that the anti-christ is about to be born, and that the end of the world is nigh...

Sigh! can we please move beyond all this CRAP!!??

If you are concerned about it get off your lazy asses and do something about it, other wise quit your whining... :mad:

All this means is that I missed out on blowjobs from girls dressed like whores when I was 12. Damn!

All this means is that I missed out on blowjobs from girls dressed like whores when I was 12. Damn!

Don't worry, with the right lawyer you can STILL get blowjobs from 12 year old girls dressed like whores!

I dont care how many 16 year olds say they understand the consequences of sex and are ready for it.. they are not.. its that simple. You dont have to be a religious fanatic to read those scientific findings.
And i dont give a flying fuck about how hard you try to make your point, but i was ready at sixteen, because i knew the risks and could cope with the emotional repercussions. Guess what, i am a responsible adult and didnt die from an std, kill myself because the relation broke up, got some girl pregnant or go pervert or have an otherwise disturbed view of sexuality. So stop talking over others people head and take yours out of the sand.

America is morally destroyed. Everyone is grabbing at eachother's money.
gimmie ur money :mp5: :)

Don't worry, with the right lawyer you can STILL get blowjobs from 12 year old girls dressed like whores!

It would have been more fun growing up if it had happened when I was 12, dammit!

As Cicero said over 2000 years ago, "O tempores! O mores!" [Oh the times! Oh the morals!]

The point is this: since the dawn of civilization, there've always been those who think we're going to hell in a handbasket, and most of the time, they were somewhat right. But we're still here. So I wouldn't worry too much.

And I agree with those who have said that it is the fault of the parents who allow their children to be exposed to this crap. Parents today seem like they just don't know when to put their foot down. Doing things in your kids' best interest might not always be nice, infact things that are good for them can hurt their feelings. Boo hoo. Get over it, and just enforce discipline.

It would have been more fun growing up if it had happened when I was 12, dammit!
Hey, at my school, that was going on since the girls turned 10. I'm not making that up. :eek:

:headbang: ...Next thing you'll be telling me is that plagues are among us, that the anti-christ is about to be born, and that the end of the world is nigh...

Sigh! can we please move beyond all this CRAP!!??

If you are concerned about it get off your lazy asses and do something about it, other wise quit your whining... :mad:


Kahta, it seems, is a dedicated professional whiner.
You ought to see all the junk he spams moderation with.

America is morally destroyed. Everyone is grabbing at eachother's money. Now that is how America is morally destroyed. Not through sexual morals or whatever - right-wingism and lack of workers' rights (or the willingness to enforce them).

No, I'm not a communist.

By the way, I've seen several threads about why everyone hates America. Well, I live in Britain, and one of the reasons is the blind assumption of many - not all - Americans that their country is the only truly free country and the world and is the guardian of the free world… it does really get annoying to Europeans.

As Cicero said over 2000 years ago, "O tempores! O mores!" [Oh the times! Oh the morals!] The Romans were actually immoral in many ways… bloody Romans, enslaving the good Jewish people.

Anyway, I agree that morality is on the decline, but it's much "worse" here in Europe. And I don't like it when people say teenagers can't control their hormonal impulses. :mad: I am one.

The thing is, the countries are less religious now, so the teenagers have no real moral reason not to go sleeping around. That's basically it… I think.

It's all the fault of those damned Starbucks popping up all over the place, I tell you...

needing more caffiene,

Alcesania

You know, when I was 12, I felt left out because everyone else was dating. By dating at this age, it meant you would wear his coat when you got cold and hold hands between classes and maybe, kiss.
Hell, the closest it came to sexual acts at parties was spin the bottle.

I think I knew like 3 people who definitely had sex during highschool... A couple others who may have, but didn't admit it either way.
I know that I didnt' even have my first date until I was 17, almost 18. I had my first real kiss at 16...

My little sister lost her virginity at 14... to a 22 year old. Though she's keeping an eye on my youngest sister so hopefully that won't be the case for her.

Wtf? Is all I've got to say.

Lastly, another interesting thing is that when Sanrio (the makers of Hello Kitty) did some research on sales around the world, it found that stuff they had marketed to 4-7 year old girls in the US were being bought regularly by 20-30 year old women in Japan!
I love Hello Kitty!

I have a backpack with her on it and a calendar!

I think I want the Hello Kitty toaster.

My little sister lost her virginity at 14... to a 22 year old. Though she's keeping an eye on my youngest sister so hopefully that won't be the case for her.

Wtf? Is all I've got to say.

That's what happened to my youngest sister. I remember seeing these guys with her at the mall, and thinking WTF?

This is why the dems must be removed from all public offices. Cause they condone this stuff. They condone terrorism and they condone evil.
and we also condone man-dog and woman-cactus relatioshiops. Not to mention hot passionate buttsex.
hello that Buttsecks!

:headbang: ...Next thing you'll be telling me is that plagues are among us, that the anti-christ is about to be born, and that the end of the world is nigh...

Sigh! can we please move beyond all this CRAP!!??

If you are concerned about it get off your lazy asses and do something about it, other wise quit your whining... :mad:

You'd be surprised how many people actually believe that we are living in teh end-times... Pretty fucked up really.

You'd be surprised how many people actually believe that we are living in teh end-times... Pretty fucked up really.


The dumbest people in the world have always thought that it is about to end.

The dumbest people in the world have always thought that it is about to end.


I think its going to end during my lifetime.

http://www.boston.com/ae/media/articles/2005/03/12/the_disappearing_tween_years/

America is a nation of sin. This is just awful. I read the whole article over breakfast this morning, and I read it again. I can't believe how awful this is. I don't know whow I missed it when I was in middle school.


all amorality in america has existed for as long as the nation has. This nation was born of greed and violence, nursed on theft and genocide, and rose to power on more violence. 150 years ago women were modest, and nations of innocent people were slaughtered like cattle for their land. Frankly, I'd take the thongs.

Well MY girls are going to be smarter than that!

They sure as hell better be! I want to raise free spirits! :)

there's a great deal of irony in wanting to train someone to resist training.

Holy shit, I detest that show.

What's more, it seems to be spilling over and contaminating the normally more sensible ( :p ) male side of the gender (the evil "metrosexual" phase/trend)


there's a difference between the kind of metrosexual who appriciates art and sensitivity and the simpering self-obsessed sort. not all of it is bad, but I guess that depends on how you define metrosexual.

Just continued that article, and... HOLY COW:



It's just staggering IMO, and quite sad really

:eek:

Good, article. But sadly, it hits the nail on the head. I've made similar observations regarding those "teen" magazines that 9-12 year olds seem to frequently buy and read.

Seriously, some times 99% of the content should be solidly restricted to over 18 year olds :eek:


the content has nothing to do with it. this is a goal-oriented society, and the goals are entirely meaningless and amoral in almost every sense. football players are heros and nobody notices charity workers. the thing is it was not a departure from christianity - which has been largely dead (in the west) for centuries, but the fulfillment of the materialism that our national expansion fueled generations ago. people put the meaning of life in boxes and plan to get around to it some time...and live like there's some point to being here just for the hell of it.

there's a great deal of irony in wanting to train someone to resist training.

Did I SAY I was going to train them? NO. And in your opinion is everyone who raises children forcing them to be a certain way?

What I meant was I'm going to allow them freedom to think, do and experience things. I want to give them the tools to think outside the box.

Sorry, there's no irony there. :rolleyes:

I'm going to give my opinion bluntly- the oversexualization of America is destroying this country.

And I'm not going to argue it, because I'm not going to change the minds of people who disagree with me and they aren't going to change mine.

it's a symptom of the destruction, not the cause.

Did I SAY I was going to train them? NO. And in your opinion is everyone who raises children forcing them to be a certain way?

What I meant was I'm going to allow them freedom to think, do and experience things. I want to give them the tools to think outside the box.

Sorry, there's no irony there. :rolleyes:

yeah I know, but "they sure as hell better be" free spirits is still amusing. be free, damn you!

yeah I know, but "they sure as hell better be" free spirits is still amusing. be free, damn you!
that is a bit funny to imagine:

"You, be a skeptic and a free spirit!"
"Why, Daddy?"
"Because I said so."

A losing battle. America will be festering in it's own nasty juices like Babylon, like decadent Rome. Actually, it really already is isn't it.

heh, you know rome was extremely sexually...er, diverse, in its glory days. it got more prudish as it got closer to falling. materialism is the problem, sexuality is just a branch of it.

yeah I know, but "they sure as hell better be" free spirits is still amusing. be free, damn you!
It was tongue in cheek! :p

It was tongue in cheek! :p

heh, it works.

Frankly, I don't see what the problem is.

So fucking what if they wear that stuff, and so fucking what if one of the most popular TV shows is about "desperate housewives"?

You know, it's more "moral" to be tolerant than it is to force your ideals upon others.

I just wanted to point a few things out here.

#1. Every civilization in the history of the human race, from the first records of Egypt and Mesopotamia to the post-modern world of today has been based upon and maintained by the concept of intolerance.

#2. You are preaching tolerance but are utterly intolerant of intolerance. This is a contradiction of principles and logical reasoning tends to not coexist with them.

I just wanted to point a few things out here.

#1. Every civilization in the history of the human race, from the first records of Egypt and Mesopotamia to the post-modern world of today has been based upon and maintained by the concept of intolerance.

#2. You are preaching tolerance but are utterly intolerant of intolerance. This is a contradiction of principles and logical reasoning tends to not coexist with them.
#1. That doesn't make it ok. And if they're so smart, why are they dead?
#2. John Locke doesn't seem to share that viewpoint.

America is a nation of sin. This is just awful. I read the whole article over breakfast this morning, and I read it again. I can't believe how awful this is. I don't know whow I missed it when I was in middle school.

That's what parents have said about the world their children live for houndreds of years. Go back to the sixties, and you'll see parents shocked about how their children are doing drugs, or growing beards (especially if it's their daughter :eek: ), or walking around naked, or being overall hippies. It's nothing new, and it's not going to end either. Give me a couple decades, and you'll see me ranting about how immoral kids are.

That's what parents have said about the world their children live for houndreds of years. Go back to the sixties, and you'll see parents shocked about how their children are doing drugs, or growing beards (especially if it's their daughter :eek: ), or walking around naked, or being overall hippies. It's nothing new, and it's not going to end either. Give me a couple decades, and you'll see me ranting about how immoral kids are.

The downfall of America, morally, economically, and socially can be traced from the 1960's. Before then, only the poor trash rebeled. Now its the "popular" thing to do.

You know, it's more "moral" to be tolerant than it is to force your ideals upon others.

By that logic its moral for people to steel things from you because by their ideals that ok, and its immoral for the police to go and arrest them

Morality is not reletive. The quicker the world realises this the better.

By that logic its moral for people to steel things from you because by their ideals that ok, and its immoral for the police to go and arrest them

Morality is not reletive. The quicker the world realises this the better.
incorrect. morality is 100% relative, but that does not mean that human society functions most effectively in perfectly "tolerant" structures.

remember, just because the outcome of total moral relativism may be unpleasent, that doesn't mean it's necessarily wrong. sure, human society needs to function within set moral guidelines, but that doesn't mean those guidelines are actual objective realities...they are necessary constructs, true, but still constructs.

#1. That doesn't make it ok. And if they're so smart, why are they dead?because their core society became immoral, and their social structure broke down... causing chaos and confusion.

I don't see why this morality/legality thing is so hard for people to grapple with. If a specific action harms no one but yourself, than it should be legal. If it harms other people, than it should be illegal, just from a common sense perspective.

The government cannot really enforce morality, even if "immoral" behaviors were made illegal. If the only reason you don't do something is because it's illegal, and not because it's "immoral," than you're not really being moral, now are you? You can't claim to be moral if immorality was never an option.

Our laws should function on common sense, not any one person's view of morality. Stealing may not be immoral by some people's standards, in fact, in certain circumstances, it isn't immoral in my view (under very limited circumstances), however, the society couldn't function if stealing was permitted, so it's illegal.

Say someone came from a society where it was perfectly acceptable to kill someone if they were rude to you (not to say one actually exists, but for the point of an example). For them, murder, under certain circumstances, would be moral. But for a society like ours, it wouldn't make much sense and so obviously, it is illegal to kill someone, even if they are rude to you.

Is cannibalism moral? According to some societies, yes. But it is unworkable in our society, and thus, not allowed.

If I don't get a tattoo because my parents would be furious and punish me severely, am I really choosing to be a good son? No, I am not. If I don't get a tattoo because my parents would be disappointed in me, though they would not punish me in any way, then, perhaps I am being a good son. (This is just an example I used because it applies to my life. I'm not in any way suggesting that all parents are against tattoos, or that tattoos are either good or bad.)

Morality works the same way. If I do not to go to a prostitute for her services because it is illegal and carries a penalty, would I be acting morally? No, I would not. If, however, prostitution was legal, and I choose not to employ one because it goes against my personal view of morality, then I am being a moral person.

The fact is, we can't let everyone do whatever they want to whoever they want, it would send our society into a tailspin. The only sensible way to allow the most liberty to make one's own choices regarding right and wrong while maintaining some semblence of order is to base the law on the idea that one person's freedom ends where another's begins. Morality, however, must be a personal choice, otherwise it ceases to be morality.

incorrect. morality is 100% relative, but that does not mean that human society functions most effectively in perfectly "tolerant" structures.

remember, just because the outcome of total moral relativism may be unpleasent, that doesn't mean it's necessarily wrong. sure, human society needs to function within set moral guidelines, but that doesn't mean those guidelines are actual objective realities...they are necessary constructs, true, but still constructs.
Yeah, I think what we need to realise is that we can't maintain the same moral standards indefinitely, we need to change as we change. Personally I think a good framework is that people can do whatever they want, and exercise their autonomy in any way, as long as they don't harm others.

If they're 'harming themselves' it should be up to those close to them to intervene, but not necessarily force.

Edit: Callisdrun beat me to it!

...anyway, I like azn chicks.

...anyway, I like azn chicks.
Wrong thread? :confused: :p :)

America is a nation of sin.

Everyone is a sinner, Kahta. A nation cannot sin, only the people contained within it.

hahahahahaha

I gave my first blow job when I was 15. I'm a sophmore in college now. I'm doing well academically, have a high self esteem, and have never experienced any problems with my sexuality. The only bad thing about teens giving blow jobs is the higher risk of getting STDs, which can be prevented by using condoms. There we go, problem solved.

The downfall of America, morally, economically, and socially can be traced from the 1960's. Before then, only the poor trash rebeled. Now its the "popular" thing to do.
Hahahahahahahaha. right.

Everything was perfect and then those damn hippies went and messed everything up. I wouldn't go about calling people trash either, you're the racist here.

Not just that, but gangsterism, corporatism, neo-conservatism, and many other things that destroy our country. I think the first step to stop it would be banning rap music, then eliminating "gangster" culture from America.
Fascist much?

Seriously, you can either have a free nation, or a nation where people do exactly what you want. For one thing, banning rap music will only take care of the positive stuff out there. The "gangsta" rap will still go on, it will just be underground. In such cases, it is good to have a police record. For another, that's pretty damn oppressive of you.

Thaz the problem being the 'FREE WORLD', exploiting others while making sins at home... :sniper: :mp5: :gundge:

The only bad thing about teens giving blow jobs is the higher risk of getting STDsAs someone who didn't get a blow job until i was nearly not a teenager anymore, I have to say vote for more teens giving blowjobs.

Thaz the problem being the 'FREE WORLD', exploiting others while making sins at home... :sniper: :mp5: :gundge:
Maybe you should add another gun smiley … they help make your point stronger
[/sarcasm]

Fascist much?

Seriously, you can either have a free nation, or a nation where people do exactly what you want. For one thing, banning rap music will only take care of the positive stuff out there. The "gangsta" rap will still go on, it will just be underground. In such cases, it is good to have a police record. For another, that's pretty damn oppressive of you.
His logic meter is broken, that doesn't mean anything to him

Whoa, what a subject.

In all honesty, my kneejerk reaction is against the sort of things in the original article, but then again... well, what can you do? Stamp it out, it'll bounce back all the harder.

So, I guess the trick is to just try and show a good example in life.

Hmm.

Of course, the evil, socio-historian half of me is laughing. Man, to think that America would run the gamut from benevolent Empire to Roman decadence in just 100 years! Ha! Even the French Empire lasted longer!

As someone who didn't get a blow job until i was nearly not a teenager anymore, I have to say vote for more teens giving blowjobs.

As someone who didn't get a blow job until I was in my 20s, I have to say vote for more teens giving blowjobs as well.