NationStates Jolt Archive

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=8&u=/ap/20050311/ap_on_re_us/adoption_hurdles



Here's my favorite line:

"...but six times resorted to private adoption because dealing with state agencies proved frustrating."

which should have appeared long before this one;

"The vast majority give up "not because they don't want to, but apparently because they decide not to deal with a system they perceive as too frustrating, bureaucratic and just plain unfriendly," the Evan B. Donaldson Adoption Institute says."

The government can't even handle free opportunities for our most vulnerable citizens, yet liberals seem to want to give the government ever more responsibility, authority and control over our lives and welfare.

WAKE UP!

Meh, your Republican friends also want to control people's lives.

red herring

government intrusion is government intrusion. The bigger a government is the more it will intrude. if you don't like it then quit fighting for a larger government. Simple.

Actually, under Dubya the size of the government has grown.

Actually, under Dubya the size of the government has grown.
by leaps and bounds. i'm amazed that people who claim to support small government even considered voting for Dubya's second term...even Kerry supported smaller government than Dubya, and that's saying something.

My Empire will have a really small government--me :D

Bush and Kerry have nothing to do with this topic, nice try at hijacking. The topic is that BIG givernment is inefficient, unfriendly, cumbersome and unable to compete with private enterprise. This article makes the point very clear.

http://alanchapman.org/libertyvault/gwb.html

Not that I disagree with everything he's done, but he's certainly not small government.

So the consensus here is that Big government=bad. That is good. It is nice to see so many conservatives here.

So the consensus here is that Big government=bad. That is good. It is nice to see so many conservatives here.

Not only conservative support small government ;)

red herring

government intrusion is government intrusion. The bigger a government is the more it will intrude. if you don't like it then quit fighting for a larger government. Simple.

Doesn't seem we will ever get smaller. Tried a Democrat, got social programs. Went straight-up Repub, got social controls, inflated military and corporate welfare. Seems you're in quite a perdicament, assuming you're a libertarian.

So the consensus here is that Big government=bad. That is good. It is nice to see so many conservatives here.

Nah, dumb government is bad. Social spending done right can stimulate economic growth and accelerate revenue aquisition to the point where debts can be paid and then we can start worrying about contracting the mess.

Meh, political parties in most western countries only pretend to be different these days.

The government can't even handle free opportunities for our most vulnerable citizens, yet liberals seem to want to give the government ever more responsibility, authority and control over our lives and welfare.
Yes, because orphans would be far better off if they were abandoned in the streets than if evil liberals put them in government care. :rolleyes:

Want the smallest government in the world? Go to Somalia.

Yes, because orphans would be far better off if they were abandoned in the streets than if evil liberals put them in government care. :rolleyes:
Their odds of finding a home would be better, that is for sure. Then private charity would find them, take them in and scout loving homes for them. The private adoption services are far more efficient as was clearly stated in the article.

Want the smallest government in the world? Go to Somalia.
I never said I wanted the smallest government in the world, did I.

Want the smallest government in the world? Go to Somalia.
:rolleyes: trite.

Well, I'm not too sure about you, but I think that the UK, Germany, Sweden, Switzerland, and Finland have done a pretty good job mansging society with a large government. Is it possibly just the US that doesn't have the right idea for a big government? The EU is well on its way to doing a good job with a mssive bureaucracy as well.

Well, I'm not too sure about you, but I think that the UK, Germany, Sweden, Switzerland, and Finland have done a pretty good job mansging society with a large government. Is it possibly just the US that doesn't have the right idea for a big government? The EU is well on its way to doing a good job with a mssive bureaucracy as well.
YOU might think it looks good, but it looks like a bloody mess to me. Just what WAS the last useful innovation that came from Europe? Gee, and 10% unemployment, now that's a dandy - what you can top it? No, come on. Really? 25% unemployment for young workers! Wow, you did! Impressively unimpressive I say.

Meh, political parties in most western countries only pretend to be different these days.
Far too true.

YOU might think it looks good, but it looks like a bloody mess to me. Just what WAS the last useful innovation that came from Europe? Gee, and 10% unemployment, now that's a dandy - what you can top it? No, come on. Really? 25% unemployment for young workers! Wow, you did! Impressively unimpressive I say.
I refuse to give into the troll. I refuse to give into the troll.

Okay. How about universal health care in the UK? Good idea, works, requires a large bureaucracy and lots of money. However, generally doing better than the US national health care.

Child-raising insurance in Finland. Government pays money to working mothers so they can have time off to raise their kids. US has nothing like it all.

France - nationalized school system. Has special universities to train people especially for their jobs. In fact, government jobs are highly valued there. US - very poor job of preparing people for the actual politicla worl .

Collective Responasability- all parliamentary systems. The 'government' (i.e.) US cabinet) can and is held responsable to the legislature if they do a bad job. They can be fired. US - doesn't have it.

European cars. Much better than US cars. France's new plane? 800 people, excellence comfort, potential US buyers.

CERN - the top physics researcg facility in the world. They created anti-matter and have began to unlock dozens of world mysteries. Guess where? Switzerland.

Drugs - Canada. Cheaper, better.

National Social Security - actually a workable system in Europe. Helps the poor get by without resorting to picking out of trash cans and begging at food shelters. US - 300$ a month for all living expenses. If that. And it doesn't go to all of the poor.

There are some ideas for starters.

red herring

government intrusion is government intrusion. The bigger a government is the more it will intrude. if you don't like it then quit fighting for a larger government. Simple.
Between you and me, you are the only one fighting (or at least voting) for a larger government.

Bush and Kerry have nothing to do with this topic, nice try at hijacking. The topic is that BIG givernment is inefficient, unfriendly, cumbersome and unable to compete with private enterprise. This article makes the point very clear.
If you didn't want this thread to be partisan maybe you shouldn't have tergeted liberals in your first post.

If you didn't want this thread to be partisan maybe you shouldn't have tergeted liberals in your first post.

Between you and me, you are the only one fighting (or at least voting) for a larger government.


Oh, I see, liberals platform is not about more government? Then they finally gave up on socialized healthdare, affirmative action, excessive social spending, et. etc. etc.

The liberal platform is ALL about large government. It is exponential stupidity to point at an individual politician who stepped across party platforms and describe it as a fundamental change to the political platform of the party.

Unlike liberals, Bush is flexible and willing to negotiate. Too much so I believe. Until liberals adopt a smaller government platform they will be the target of all critisism about the flaws of big government.

Bush and Kerry have nothing to do with this topic, nice try at hijacking. The topic is that BIG givernment is inefficient, unfriendly, cumbersome and unable to compete with private enterprise. This article makes the point very clear.

that's why private enterprise should be banned. it slows the progress of the government. it's not ineffecient either, it's just that there hasn't really been a country that successfully removed private enterprise, private property, made immoral things illegal, and killed all who opposed. and by immoral i mean something that would make people less effecient for the government, like allowing gay marriage, welfare, and most religions.

Oh, I see, liberals platform is not about more government? Then they finally gave up on socialized healthdare, affirmative action, excessive social spending, et. etc. etc.

The liberal platform is ALL about large government. It is exponential stupidity to point at an individual politician who stepped across party platforms and describe it as a fundamental change to the political platform of the party.

Unlike liberals, Bush is flexible and willing to negotiate. Too much so I believe. Until liberals adopt a smaller government platform they will be the target of all critisism about the flaws of big government.

both liberals and conservatives want larger government but in different places of it. libertarians are who want the smaller government.

I refuse to give into the troll. I refuse to give into the troll.
.

In your example troll = common sense.

Okay. How about universal health care in the UK? Good idea, works, requires a large bureaucracy and lots of money. However, generally doing better than the US national health care.
.

'large beurocracy' and 'lots of money' yet you call that good? It is not doing better than the 'US national health care' because there is none. There IS free healthcare for the poor in the US, but I'm sure you never bothered to learn about that. Meanwhile the private healthcare in the US is considerably more effective than any public healthcare in the world. Unless you consider lines and long waits a perk (get to know your sick neighbors while you wait)
Ever look at the prescription meds your doctor recommends? Notice where the vast maority are made? Hmmmm.



Child-raising insurance in Finland. Government pays money to working mothers so they can have time off to raise their kids. US has nothing like it all. .
Nope, in America people earn their income. A mother (AND father) is responsible for making sure their household can afford to live on one income for whatever period the deem necessary before she procreates. Hmm, responsibility - how nice of Finland to abdicate that. NOT better.


France - nationalized school system. Has special universities to train people especially for their jobs. In fact, government jobs are highly valued there. US - very poor job of preparing people for the actual politicla worl .
.

Gee, then why can't 25% of the brilliantly educated French young workers get jobs?? I'd say that with 10% unemployment ANY job there is valued, not just the government ones. Meanwhile American young workers are much more sought after and productive than any of their European counterparts. Government jobs are good, but private enterprise offers MUCH higher potential. Our ambitious workers deserve that. It is amazing how that happens. After graduation American workers must be getting a visit from the 'smart fairy' according to your theory.


Collective Responasability- all parliamentary systems. The 'government' (i.e.) US cabinet) can and is held responsable to the legislature if they do a bad job. They can be fired. US - doesn't have it. .
Umm, WTF are you talking about? The only government officials who cannot be fired (but can be impeached) are judges.


European cars. Much better than US cars..
Go Peugot! Yay jaguar! Oh wait, those are shit. my bad. Hmm,, lets just see what Consumer reports has to say:
Where are the european cars? (http://www.consumerreports.org/main/detailv4.jsp?WebLogicSession=QjRCLMs2prwmTnM0Ow84s3FKFeIexVq0c6N52taXi8FODrKL3qdz|694110245794135513 3/169937910/6/7005/7005/7002/7002/7005/-1|-438498213007728434/169937913/6/7005/7005/7002/7002/7005/-1&CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=113417&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=113261&bmUID=1110721068436)


France's new plane? 800 people, excellence comfort, potential US buyers.
.
Yup, Airbus is not bad for a government subsidized industry. They sell even better when attached to other things, like tsunami aid.


CERN - the top physics researcg facility in the world. They created anti-matter and have began to unlock dozens of world mysteries. Guess where? Switzerland. .
Gee, that's useful. I can't wait to buy one of those. Now, as I was saying - where is the useful innovation?


Drugs - Canada. Cheaper, better.
.

Did Canada move to Europe? Where are their drugs from? Oh, USA. Why are they cheaper? because US companies are foolish enough to play into the Canadian government price controls - jacking prices for US consumers to make up the difference. Guess what is happening now - Canadian prices are rising - wonder why???


National Social Security - actually a workable system in Europe. Helps the poor get by without resorting to picking out of trash cans and begging at food shelters. US - 300$ a month for all living expenses. If that. And it doesn't go to all of the poor. .

Sounds pretty good. Why bother working at all? Maybe you can also give them all some of those high-quality european cars. $300/month is a fairly specific number. Are you sure it's not $299.87? Maybe you should guess agian. It is fun to make up numbers! The US has a marvelous safety net for those unable to work for health reasons. I bet you never even heard of it. I'll give you a hint. It rhymes with Coastal infurity Miss Ability. Then there is 'Run Deployment' insurance. Oh yes, even "Smell Chair" for a few years. Since you've not got a clue, now you at least have a hint.

both liberals and conservatives want larger government but in different places of it. libertarians are who want the smaller government.
That is a valid point worth making - though it is technically incorrect. Libertarians have a conservative goal for the government. Conservative being limited government. Republicans do not own the market on conservative ideology, not do they completely pursue it.

that's why private enterprise should be banned. it slows the progress of the government. it's not ineffecient either, it's just that there hasn't really been a country that successfully removed private enterprise, private property, made immoral things illegal, and killed all who opposed. and by immoral i mean something that would make people less effecient for the government, like allowing gay marriage, welfare, and most religions.
ROFLMAO!!! Did you really say that!

Heaven help us if we do anything to stop the gradual invasion of government into our private lives! Totalitarianism is so much preferable! Let the government decide not only what sex you marry, but who you marry too! THAT's Progress! (not)

I would disagree that 'private enterprise is not inefficient'. It is simply more efficient than the govt. as illustrated over and over and over and over again. As far as the rest of your post - revise it so it makes sense if you expect a reply.

Though I did find your line "by immoral i mean something that would make people less effecient for the government" quite humerous. You sound almost like a slave owner. Were your ancestors in the cotton business?

ROFLMAO!!! Did you really say that!

Heaven help us if we do anything to stop the gradual invasion of government into our private lives! Totalitarianism is so much preferable! Let the government decide not only what sex you marry, but who you marry too! THAT's Progress! (not)

I would disagree that 'private enterprise is not inefficient'. It is simply more efficient than the govt. as illustrated over and over and over and over again. As far as the rest of your post - revise it so it makes sense if you expect a reply.

Though I did find your line "by immoral i mean something that would make people less effecient for the government" quite humerous. You sound almost like a slave owner. Were your ancestors in the cotton business?

no, my ancestors were being moved of their homes by america at that time or being controlled by prussia and austria and russia.
i didn't mean to say private enterprise is not inefficient, i ment to say it isn't efficient. and i think that everyone should be a part of the government, so that everyone is required to vote for what they want, and everyone is required to follow that vote. so it's kind of like one of the types of u.n. government labels that are in nationstates. tyrrany by majority.