NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.13wham.com/news/national/story.aspx?content_id=422B960A-26BA-4891-9E60-21C8818788D4

Do we have to stop saying 'spider hole' now?

http://www.13wham.com/news/national/story.aspx?content_id=422B960A-26BA-4891-9E60-21C8818788D4

Do we have to stop saying 'spider hole' now?

someone was saying that the marines were not in iraq at that time though. Seems like BS to me.

Besides what does it matter if they did capture saddam?

Im sure that marine got a nice fat check from saddam to make up that story

Go to the thread whispering Legs posted about how anyone can say that they're a marine- it has all the previous debate on it, as well as the same news link.

I didn't care how they captured him in the first place, don't care if they faked the story. He got nabbed and that is what matters.

someone was saying that the marines were not in iraq at that time though. Seems like BS to me.

Besides what does it matter if they did capture saddam?

Well, I was hoping for some kind of debate on media manipulation in this war and how much truthful information are we actually getting.

Whether or not it'll work is for time to tell.

(mayhaps I shouldda made that more obvious first post)

Wow Saddam took out a soldier with his pistol? Maybe Saddam didn't go down like a bitch after all. Perhaps it was just staged to make him look like a pansy to discourage his followers. Or maybe the guy just made up the story to get famous/ got paid.

I heard it was actually his Evil Twin.

You know, Gomorrah Hussein.

Well, I was hoping for some kind of debate on media manipulation in this war and how much truthful information are we actually getting.

Whether or not it'll work is for time to tell.

(mayhaps I shouldda made that more obvious first post)

By posting this BS story? oooookkkkkkkkkk

I heard it was actually his Evil Twin.

You know, Gomorrah Hussein.

LOL....That cracks me up! :p

I heard it was actually his Evil Twin.

You know, Gomorrah Hussein.

Ha ha ha.

That's pretty funny.

Damn they found us out.

I don't trust any news-station named WHAM.

I don't trust any news-station named WHAM.

Heh - well said.

Well, at least they caught him, anyhow.

Well, at least they caught him, anyhow.
They should have caught Bush too while they were at it. And Rumsfeld and Cheney and Rice and Powell and Wolfowitz. They're equally guilty of breaking international law and murdering tens of thousands of innocents.

Ein Deutscher']They should have caught Bush too while they were at it. And Rumsfeld and Cheney and Rice and Powell and Wolfowitz. They're equally guilty of breaking international law and murdering tens of thousands of innocents.


Right on!

And I don't mean to sound sarcastic ... I do actually agree ... to a point ...

I'm not sure how this applies, but when I was eating breakfast one day at the cafe above the bookstore near my house, the table directly next to ours held a man and a woman, the man had just gotten back from Iraq (military, of course) and was telling the woman all these things about how the media was screwing up accounts of what's going on out there, and how the timing was WAAAAY off regarding the 'capture of Hussein'...
I vaguely remember something about how he said it happened about six months before they even said a THING about it here...
I really wish I'd had a tape recorder, because everyday I lose more and more of what he said, but that stood out the most...

ya and guess what? THE GOVERNMENT KILLED MARTIN LUTHER KING JR.! THE MOON LANDING WAS FAKE!

ya and guess what? THE GOVERNMENT KILLED MARTIN LUTHER KING JR.! THE MOON LANDING WAS FAKE!
THE HOLOCAUST NEVER HAPPENED!!! JEWS ARE IN CONTROL OF ALL THE WORLD'S MEDIA AND MAJOR CORPORATIONS!!! THE TOP OFFICIALS OF ALL MAJOR WORLD POWERS ARE REPTILIAN ALIENS!!! THE EARTH IS HOLLOW, AND NAZIS LIVE IN THE MIDDLE AND FLY OUT WITH CAPTURED ALIEN SPACECRAFT TO ATTACK US WHEN WE AREN'T LOOKING!!! TIME IS NOT LINEAR, IT IS A CUBE!!! GEORGE W. BUSH ORDERED THE ATTACKS ON THE WORLD TRADE CENTERS!!! JOHN KERRY IS THE HEAD OF AN NWO ORGANIZATIONTO SPREAD COMMUNISM THE WORLD OVER!!!

YEAH! You paranoid hippy assholes. How can you possibly claim that the US government would ever mislead you? Just because they utterly orchestrated the statue of Saddam getting pulled down as a PR effort, and just because they filmed the team that went in to "save" the "hero" Jessica Lynch because they knew the hospital she was being kept in was empty, and just because they changed the supposed reason for the war after it was proven Saddam had no link to Al Queada, and then AGAIN upon finding no WMD's in Iraq, and just because the original reports stating Saddam had WMD's were completely fabricated. Just because this entire war has been a sequence of lies and misinformation, what grounds do you have to engage in healthy skepticism?

Im not sure I entirely believe this yet, and I don't go in for conspiracy theories. Don't get me wrong, Im not entirely defending conspriacy theories. Just all the "It doesn't matter if it wasn't true we got him and that's all that matters" reponses piss me off.

Cynicism doesn't mean you arnt still "patriotic", you know. :rolleyes:

So the guy claims the 'spider hole' was a dry well?

Anyone here ever seen a dry well? It wasn't one.

THE HOLOCAUST NEVER HAPPENED!!! JEWS ARE IN CONTROL OF ALL THE WORLD'S MEDIA AND MAJOR CORPORATIONS!!! THE TOP OFFICIALS OF ALL MAJOR WORLD POWERS ARE REPTILIAN ALIENS!!! THE EARTH IS HOLLOW, AND NAZIS LIVE IN THE MIDDLE AND FLY OUT WITH CAPTURED ALIEN SPACECRAFT TO ATTACK US WHEN WE AREN'T LOOKING!!! TIME IS NOT LINEAR, IT IS A CUBE!!! GEORGE W. BUSH ORDERED THE ATTACKS ON THE WORLD TRADE CENTERS!!! JOHN KERRY IS THE HEAD OF AN NWO ORGANIZATIONTO SPREAD COMMUNISM THE WORLD OVER!!!

NO JOHN KERRY IS AN ALIEN NAZI HELLBENT ON GETTING AS MUCH PATATO CHIPS AS HIS ASS CAN HANDLE :cool:

http://www.13wham.com/news/national/story.aspx?content_id=422B960A-26BA-4891-9E60-21C8818788D4

Do we have to stop saying 'spider hole' now?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Did you know that I saw Elvis coming out of the local Walmart yesterday? He was with Elizabeth Taylor who was carrying their two-headed alien baby. :rolleyes:

NO JOHN KERRY IS AN ALIEN NAZI HELLBENT ON GETTING AS MUCH PATATO CHIPS AS HIS ASS CAN HANDLE :cool:
ADOLF HITLER WAS A GAY JEW THAT WANTED TO COVER IT ALL UP SO HE COULD HAVE TEH HOTT JEWISH GHEY BUTTSECKS!!! THE EARTH IS FLAT, AND WE'VE nEVER BEEN TO SPACE!!! JESUS' LOVE HOLDS MOLECULES TOGETHER!!! THERE IS A RACE OF BAT/HUMAN HYBRIDS LIVING IN NORTHERN ALABAMA THAT EAT PEOPLE'S BRAINS!!! THE GOVERNMENT CONTROLS YOUR MIND THROUGH EEVIL RAYS EMITTED FROM POWERLINES, AND THE ONLY WAY TO STOP THEM IS TO COVER EVEYTHING AROUND YOU WITH A LOT OF WHITE FABRIC AND CHANT A LOT AND FAST!!!

NO JOHN KERRY IS AN ALIEN NAZI HELLBENT ON GETTING AS MUCH PATATO CHIPS AS HIS ASS CAN HANDLE :cool:

Who's John Kerry? :confused:

Am I the only one who notices that the 'real picture' they provided on the top of the report is of a pair of guys with forest camo for their armor vests, like we see on the Army soldiers in Iraq, as opposed to the desert camo that we see on all the pictures of the Marines in Iraq?

Or that the man with his right shoulder towards the camera has his flag patch sown on backwards?

I don't know what those people are or what they're doing, but they're sure as hell not United States Marines.

EDIT: My mistake, the flag being that way appears to be OK for military uniforms--I did a bit of googling to check, and it seems some have it that way, others with the blue on the left.

Blue on the top left is the way an American flag is displayed when you hang it on a wall, so I assumed it would be the same on a soldier's uniform.

EDIT: My mistake, the flag being that way appears to be OK for military uniforms--I did a bit of googling to check, and it seems some have it that way, others with the blue on the left.

Blue on the top left is the way an American flag is displayed when you hang it on a wall, so I assumed it would be the same on a soldier's uniform.
It's so it never retreats...the blue is always facing into the wind (movement forward).

Ein Deutscher']They should have caught Bush too while they were at it. And Rumsfeld and Cheney and Rice and Powell and Wolfowitz. They're equally guilty of breaking international law and murdering tens of thousands of innocents.

Bull sh*t, They are wayyyyyy more guilty. FYI the US has broken countless Un resolutions, but you don't see a "coalition of the willing" invading the US. Someday,..... impeach bush and install a democratically elected leader instead of this kelptocracy.

Bull sh*t, They are wayyyyyy more guilty. FYI the US has broken countless Un resolutions, but you don't see a "coalition of the willing" invading the US. Someday,..... impeach bush and install a democratically elected leader instead of this kelptocracy.
Apparently Bush was democratically elected in Nov. 2004. However paradox it may seem to the rest of the world, it actually happened in the US.

By posting this BS story? oooookkkkkkkkkk

Well, lets see if the media cares about it enough to pursue its truthfulness or lack thereof. Other than bloggers I'm doubtful if they will, unless the media decides to let the bloggers tell them what is important news again.

Well, whatever...

In the meantime you should know you need proof its BS in order to call it so. Try to act like a grownup.

Ein Deutscher']Apparently Bush was democratically elected in Nov. 2004. However paradox it may seem to the rest of the world, it actually happened in the US.

Yeah ... but how much of that was based on bad intelligence? ;)

Yeah ... but how much of that was based on bad intelligence? ;)
I guess it's not just bad intelligence but missing intelligence altogether.

I don't trust any news-station named WHAM.
There was also an article on this on CNN.

Heres a question, or a few.

1. Why would Saddam go through the whole thing? I mean hes been captured, dethroned, and his palace robbed. He got nothing else, I mean what were they going to do? Kill him? That wouldn't work because alot of Iraqis want to see him stand trial and then bust his balls. So by killing him if he refuse to go along, would upset the Iraqi population in a touchy time.

2. What would be the point of staging something like this anyways? It must cost millions in tax payers money.

The easiest way to debunk this is to go straight to a professional source, OpinionJournal.com's Best of the Web Today (http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/). Today (3/10/05) leads off with this same story, and I will paste it here.

Thursday, March 10, 2005 3:49 p.m. EST

UPI Goes Monkeyfishing (http://www.wokr13.tv/news/national/story.aspx?content_id=422B960A-26BA-4891-9E60-21C8818788D4)
"A former U.S. Marine who participated in capturing ousted Iraqi President Saddam Hussein said the public version of his capture was fabricated," reports United Press International:

Ex-Sgt. Nadim Abou Rabeh, of Lebanese descent, was quoted in the Saudi daily al-Medina Wednesday as saying Saddam was actually captured Friday, Dec. 12, 2003, and not the day after, as announced by the U.S. Army.

"I was among the 20-man unit, including eight of Arab descent, who searched for Saddam for three days in the area of Dour near Tikrit, and we found him in a modest home in a small village and not in a hole as announced," Abou Rabeh said.

"We captured him after fierce resistance during which a Marine of Sudanese origin was killed," he said. . . .

"Later on, a military production team fabricated the film of Saddam's capture in a hole, which was in fact a deserted well," Abou Rabeh said.

A translation of the original Saudi story is here (http://www.watchingamerica.com/almadina000001.html). Elements of it are easily checkable, and they don't check out. This site (http://icasualties.org/oif/BY_DOD.aspx) lists all U.S. combat fatalities in Iraq. On Dec. 12, 2003, two men were killed in action: Jarrod Black (http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/2003/nr20031215-0785.html) and Jeffrey Braun (http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/2003/nr20031214-0781.html). Both were soldiers, not Marines; and neither one has a Sudanese-sounding (i.e., Arabic) surname. Nor were any Marines or any servicemen with Arab-sounding names killed on Dec. 10 or 11.

As CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/12/15/sprj.irq.main/) noted at the time, Saddam was captured by the Fourth Infantry Division, and it's not clear why Marines would be along on an Army operation. There is little doubt that both al-Medina and UPI have fallen for a hoax.

So, easily disproven. Such is the hatred against George Bush, that now another hoax is perpetrated on the all-too-willing-to-believe mainstream media.

They should shoot him and string him up in the city, worked for mussolini :)

They should shoot him and string him up in the city, worked for mussolini :)
They (the Iraqis) should make Saddam's sentence a painful one. Maybe make him spend some time with Skapedroe and a radio tuned to Err America.

They (the Iraqis) should make Saddam's sentence a painful one. Maybe make him spend some time with Skapedroe and a radio tuned to Err America.

I say they turn Saddam into a Human Pianta, and let the entire country take a wack at him. $1 per hit!

I say they turn Saddam into a Human Pianta, and let the entire country take a wack at him. $1 per hit!
They could charge $10 a hit...then Iraq could pay the US for the services, with plenty of spare change.

The easiest way to debunk this is to go straight to a professional source, OpinionJournal.com's Best of the Web Today (http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/). Today (3/10/05) leads off with this same story, and I will paste it here.



So, easily disproven. Such is the hatred against George Bush, that now another hoax is perpetrated on the all-too-willing-to-believe mainstream media.
J.B. and J.B. died at that day? How weird. Both have names sounding like colours to me :D Sounds quite fabricated and the one who made it up chose some very weird names.

What cracks me up is the fact they supposedly found Mars bars and SPAM in Saddam's hideout. Weird, isn't it?

Well it isn't the first time the US military have made 'viewer friendly' stories. Remember Private Jessica Lynch? If they did make it into a media beat, and I'm not convinced they did, then I don't blame them. They were doing what they thought would save lives by reducing the opinion of Saddam loyalists.

Ein Deutscher']J.B. and J.B. died at that day? How weird. Both have names sounding like colours to me :D Sounds quite fabricated and the one who made it up chose some very weird names.
Surely though those names are cited in order to disprove the story, and in fact do seem to be the names of soldiers killed on the same day in december '03. As for the rest of the story, it does seem to be false, although I honestly wouldn't have put it past the American government to actually attempt something of this kind. As has already been mentioned, one only has to look at the abortion that was the statue toppling or the 'rescue' of Jessica Lynch.

Ein Deutscher']I guess it's not just bad intelligence but missing intelligence altogether.
Something which you seem to have a problem with as well. :rolleyes:

I guess this version is more heroic for the Saddam side while official version suits the US propaganda machine as they want Saddam to look like a coward. From history, official versions are often rather false and stage-managed.

Something which you seem to have a problem with as well. :rolleyes:
I did not vote for George W. Bush. How about you? :p

I guess this version is more heroic for the Saddam side while official version suits the US propaganda machine as they want Saddam to look like a coward. From history, official versions are often rather false and stage-managed.

If you think the official version is propaganda, think again.

First of all, there were no major Marine units in Iraq at the time that Saddam was captured. The last Marines to leave Iraq left at the end of September '03 (I was in the last Marine convoy to leave Iraq, trust me on this one). Marines did not re-enter Iraq en masse until January of '04.

Second, I tried searching the Marine Locator on Marine Online, this guy has no account (something that's been required for a few years now).

Third, I tried searching the Marine Corps Uniform Board tool for looking up who has been approved for a Combat Action Ribbon (something he would have received had he, you know, ever been shot at or shot at someone), his name does not show up (tool located here: https://lnweb1.manpower.usmc.mil/manpower/mm/mmma/AwardsVerification.nsf/search ).

Fourth, I looked up who was killed around that time here: http://icasualties.org/oif/BY_DOD.aspx and couldn't find either anyone of Sudanese descent, nor any Marines (goes back to my first point) killed around that time.

This guy is making it up.

I don't trust any news-station named WHAM.
Well, after his well-publicised public cottaging incidence, how can anyone trust anything George Michael says?

They made up a story about Jessica Lynch to use as propaganda, so I don't doubt they made this up. I don't see why they would need to, all that matters was that we caught him.