NationStates Jolt Archive

While I personally vote conservative, I have to admit the green party of canada has some pretty decent plans. For a far left party of course.

I think the NDPs are over the hill and headed by a windbag. I think it was great the greens got about 5% of the popular vote in the last election. (about 8% in alberta)

In any event whats your opinion?

I'm an American, and I've heard so many Canadians say they don't want our opinion, so I'm not going to give one.

Sorry. Nope. Can't do it.

The green party didn't land a single MP though- they have widespread support, but since none of it is concentrated they can't get elected.
As for the NDP, I really don't mind them, except that they won't be trusted to spend money properly, or keep the budget balanced (I live in BC, and while I hate Campbell, the NDP put us in debt soooo bad)
Doesn't matter though, everyone will vote Liberal whenever the next election is held. Only if the Conservatives make an appearance of moving to the middle socially will they have a chance.

The green party didn't land a single MP though- they have widespread support, but since none of it is concentrated they can't get elected.
As for the NDP, I really don't mind them, except that they won't be trusted to spend money properly, or keep the budget balanced (I live in BC, and while I hate Campbell, the NDP put us in debt soooo bad)
Doesn't matter though, everyone will vote Liberal whenever the next election is held. Only if the Conservatives make an appearance of moving to the middle socially will they have a chance.


Heres to hoping former NDP voters will switch to green.


And heres to hoping the canadian conservatives chop out the religious and social bullshit and focus on economics like a real conservative party should do...

The problem for the tories is that Canada is simply a liberal country- they would have more success if the focused just on budget concerns conservatively, and went more left wing socially.
Stephen Harper seems to be eliminating the hard right-wing fringe, as seen this week in Randy White's "voluntary retirement", but I think he's commited to fighting gay marriage now. Whether it's right or wrong is not for me to say, but I think in Canada it's mostly supported.

The problem for the tories is that Canada is simply a liberal country- they would have more success if the focused just on budget concerns conservatively, and went more left wing socially.
Stephen Harper seems to be eliminating the hard right-wing fringe, as seen this week in Randy White's "voluntary retirement", but I think he's commited to fighting gay marriage now. Whether it's right or wrong is not for me to say, but I think in Canada it's mostly supported.


Nope its not. While i support gay marriage, the issue is split about 50~50. In voter rich ontario its 60~40 against IT. Thats why the conservatives are making it a issue, because they know they will get a net gain in seats if they are the only party against gay marriage...

Nope its not. While i support gay marriage, the issue is split about 50~50. In voter rich ontario its 60~40 against IT. Thats why the conservatives are making it a issue, because they know they will get a net gain in seats if they are the only party against gay marriage...

Maybe they'll get a gain, if it becomes another election issue, but it won't be the issue that brings down the government- because both the Bloc nad the NDP are for it.
I say civil union myself. Marriage is just too contentious an issue.
The other problem with it being the main issue is that the Tories, by fighting it, open themselves up to criticism that they're radical right-wing on social fronts in general. It isn't fair, but that's the light it puts them in.

Nope its not. While i support gay marriage, the issue is split about 50~50. In voter rich ontario its 60~40 against IT. Thats why the conservatives are making it a issue, because they know they will get a net gain in seats if they are the only party against gay marriage...

Can I see where that statistic comes from?
I find it hard to believe it without a source.

Can I see where that statistic comes from?
I find it hard to believe it without a source.

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/09/04/samesexpoll030904

42% in ontario support it actually.
60% in quebec

CBC poll

thanks

EDIT: Hang on, that poll is two years old. A lot have happened in those two years. I'm sorry, but this is no longer the case. LAst poll I saw from the Globe and Mail was 52% in favor of same-sex marriage in Ontario.

Can I see where that statistic comes from?
I find it hard to believe it without a source.


i dont get left wing people, your going to get rocked over this issue. All the socially conservative immigrants in toronto are going to vote conservative and basically turn power over to the conservatives.

Is it so tough to believe that ontario is so much against same sex marriage?

I don't think I'm left-wing, but I disagree that they'll get rocked. It might hurt their support, but it won't be the decisive issue that allows the Conservatives to form a government. In all likelyhood, I think continuing Liberal corruption will be the issue.

i dont get left wing people, your going to get rocked over this issue. All the socially conservative immigrants in toronto are going to vote conservative and basically turn power over to the conservatives.

Is it so tough to believe that ontario is so much against same sex marriage?
I don't get right wing people. What is so wrong in letting everyone marry whomever they love no matter what the sex. Also, there is such a thing as equal rights.

All the socially liberal immigrants all over the country are going to vote liberal and basically keep the power in the hands of the Liberals who let them came here in the first place.

Yes it is so tought to believe that Ontario is so much against same sex marriage. Especially when the latest ipso-reid poll show a 56% support for gay marriage. Link (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1097079996511_16?s_name=&no_ads=)

I don't get right wing people. What is so wrong in letting everyone marry whomever they love no matter what the sex. Also, there is such a thing as equal rights.

All the socially liberal immigrants all over the country are going to vote liberal and basically keep the power in the hands of the Liberals who let them came here in the first place.

Yes it is so tought to believe that Ontario is so much against same sex marriage. Especially when the latest ipso-reid poll show a 56% support for gay marriage. Link (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1097079996511_16?s_name=&no_ads=)

Marriage is not actually considered a right, even in countries where gay marriage is legalized. The issue the courts ruled on was whether it was fair for the governments to discriminate in a civil ceremony, based on gender. This is why I'm in favor of civil unions, because the government has no right to discriminate in civil marriage ceremonies. However, marriage is also a religios term, and the govt. has no right (in my opinion, admittedly) to force the church to cease discriminating based on gender, where such discrimination is innate to the belief system.

Marriage is not actually considered a right, even in countries where gay marriage is legalized. The issue the courts ruled on was whether it was fair for the governments to discriminate in a civil ceremony, based on gender. This is why I'm in favor of civil unions, because the government has no right to discriminate in civil marriage ceremonies. However, marriage is also a religios term, and the govt. has no right (in my opinion, admittedly) to force the church to cease discriminating based on gender, where such discrimination is innate to the belief system.
I am all for civil unions if, and only if, they have the same benefits accorded to marriages. Like next-of-kin priviledges, power of attorney, these kinds of things. I don't care if you say that, from now on, marriage is a subset of all the civil unions and that it's the civil union that grants all these benefits and legal status.

That's why I was talking about rights. Not the right to marry per se, but the rights and benefits that got associated with being married.

I am all for civil unions if, and only if, they have the same benefits accorded to marriages. Like next-of-kin priviledges, power of attorney, these kinds of things. I don't care if you say that, from now on, marriage is a subset of all the civil unions and that it's the civil union that grants all these benefits and legal status.

That's why I was talking about rights. Not the right to marry per se, but the rights and benefits that got associated with being married.

I agree totally. You've pretty much detailed my exact opinions on the matter.

I don't get right wing people. What is so wrong in letting everyone marry whomever they love no matter what the sex. Also, there is such a thing as equal rights.

All the socially liberal immigrants all over the country are going to vote liberal and basically keep the power in the hands of the Liberals who let them came here in the first place.

Yes it is so tought to believe that Ontario is so much against same sex marriage. Especially when the latest ipso-reid poll show a 56% support for gay marriage. Link (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1097079996511_16?s_name=&no_ads=)


well that link you gave is old as well, probably more like the cbc poll, if i could ever find one that duplicates that CTV poll, i will let you know

While I personally vote conservative, I have to admit the green party of canada has some pretty decent plans. For a far left party of course.

I think the NDPs are over the hill and headed by a windbag. I think it was great the greens got about 5% of the popular vote in the last election. (about 8% in alberta)

In any event whats your opinion?

I'd vote for the Greens over the NDP... if they had a chance of winning in the first place. The BC NDP managed to drive the province of BC into the ground and at least the Greens would've planted pretty flowers around its grave... and get the States OFF our power grid. :D

the latest poll I found (http://erg.environics.net/news/default.asp?aID=570)

It's two months old. While it's not on same-sex marriage exactly but on the law that's going through the parliament, I think it's safe to assume that Ontario is not against same-sex marriage like you described.

The green party is just like a splinter of tne NDP to begin with, aren't they? There is much common ground between the two parties except that the NDP also has other plans and focuses. Same reason the marijuana party is redundant.

the latest poll I found (http://erg.environics.net/news/default.asp?aID=570)

It's two months old. While it's not on same-sex marriage exactly but on the law that's going through the parliament, I think it's safe to assume that Ontario is not against same-sex marriage like you described.
It's weird how alberta and british columbia sit right next to each other but their numbers pretty much opposite.

i dont get left wing people, your going to get rocked over this issue. All the socially conservative immigrants in toronto are going to vote conservative and basically turn power over to the conservatives.

Is it so tough to believe that ontario is so much against same sex marriage?
Since the last line was pretty much debunked by the more recent poll...

Perhaps I shoudl point out that a large portion of these socially conservative immigrants aren't citizens, thus can't vote and thus, don't really have an impact on the decisions of the MPs.

First of all, the Green Party of Canada is canada's second right wing party, its economics are similiar to the conservatives and during the election greenpeace and the sierra club both said that the NDP had a better enviromental policy. I believe they are worse than a protest vote because the people who vote for them seem to vote more on the basis of the name not there actual policies.

Since the last line was pretty much debunked by the more recent poll...

Perhaps I shoudl point out that a large portion of these socially conservative immigrants aren't citizens, thus can't vote and thus, don't really have an impact on the decisions of the MPs.

http://www.prcanada.ca/TRENDWATCH/GAYP.HTM
50% of ontario supports it

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1108163415280&call_pageid=970599119419

48% of ontario supports it


http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1075504709204_29?hub=Canada

50% of ontario supports it


http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/September2003/05/c7563.html
from march 5 2005, evenly split


SO if the peops who support gay rights would vote for the liberals anyways....

http://www.prcanada.ca/TRENDWATCH/GAYP.HTM
50% of ontario supports it
2003

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1108163415280&call_pageid=970599119419

48% of ontario supports it
Far from the 60% you claimed. Not the majority oppose it.

I like this part of the article:
"It's obviously an issue that's divisive, that a lot of people care passionately about," said EKOS president Frank Graves. "But frankly, I don't think there's any case to be made that this issue is a real deal-breaker for the Liberals in terms of their prospects for forming government the next time. In fact, looking at the overall trends and the way this is playing out, it's more likely to be a mild positive than a negative."

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1075504709204_29?hub=Canada

50% of ontario supports it

Feb. 2004, one year ago.

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/September2003/05/c7563.html
from march 5 2005, evenly split

2003, not March 2005.