NationStates Jolt Archive

Let me explain the circumstances:
I am a semi-politically minded person. I am also a conservative. I also love history, but the problem is that the more history I learn the more liberal I tend to be. I wonder if its because of my liberal history teacher or is it the history itself? This applies to the main history teacher/professor you've ever had. NS players seemed to be the right people to ask.

Let me explain the circumstances:
I am a semi-politically minded person. I am also a conservative. I also love history, but the problem is that the more history I learn the more liberal I tend to be. I wonder if its because of my liberal history teacher or is it the history itself? This applies to the main history teacher/professor you've ever had. NS players seemed to be the right people to ask.


I'd say it's the history?
My current history professor is a conservative, and I lean more and more liberal with history.
Then again, I'm also an adamant totalitarian.

Given the reverence conservatives have for history and their love of building upon the past for a better future I'd say it is probably another area of your life that is making these changes in you. I think if a teacher was converting you politically you'd notice.

I think it's something in the water supply. *nod*

How can I answer this poll if Ive had more than one teacher and college professor in my life (as most people have) and no two were identical?

My teachers have varied political leanings, probably an almost equal distribution.

I am studying History in college, and the more history I've learn, the more moderate/conservaitve I've become. I notice that if you take things slowly, it turns out for the better. Liberals are nice, but they do things way too fast, and, when they do things too fast. It doesn't stick.

I think my lecturers have been a mixed bunch, and many of them try to deliberately conceal their political leanings so they can remain unbiased say, in a tutorial setting.
And it's also a bit hard to tell when they're lecturing you on microbiology... It was really awesome when my genetics lecturer stood up on the first day of the Iraq war and said that it was a sad day for Australia... etc.

I'm guessing you're probably around my age. Maybe a little older. I'd say it's the new generation, teens to 20 year-olds. If you look carefully, you'll notice they tend to be more Liberal than anything else. The Republican party/Conservatives aren't really represented in this generation. I'd say it has to do with the history we live through. Not your teacher.

i am conservative, poli sci teacher in high school was independant, leaning more towards left, pol sci teacher in college was more liberal

Well, given that Bush is too liberal for me, this doesn't say much.

I'm guessing you're probably around my age. Maybe a little older. I'd say it's the new generation, teens to 20 year-olds. If you look carefully, you'll notice they tend to be more Liberal than anything else. The Republican party/Conservatives aren't really represented in this generation. I'd say it has to do with the history we live through. Not your teacher.

Studies have shown that its normal for younger people to be liberal but to move towards conservatism as they grow older. This isnt a new phenomenon at all. Look at the US in the 60s for a good example. College campuses in the 60s were bastions of liberalism and the non-college crowd turned to the ultra-liberal hippie movement. They grew up and where are they now? They are in their 50s now and running the country conservatively.

Studies have shown that its normal for younger people to be liberal but to move towards conservatism as they grow older. This isnt a new phenomenon at all. Look at the US in the 60s for a good example. College campuses in the 60s were bastions of liberalism and the non-college crowd turned to the ultra-liberal hippie movement. They grew up and where are they now? They are in their 50s now and running the country conservatively.

Reminds me of a Churchill quote: "When you are 20, if you aren't a liberal, you have no heart. When you're 40, if you're not a conservative, you have no brain."

I guess that means that I have no heart.

I guess that means in 23 years my brain will be gone...

Originally posted by LazyHippies
Studies have shown that its normal for younger people to be liberal but to move towards conservatism as they grow older. This isnt a new phenomenon at all. Look at the US in the 60s for a good example. College campuses in the 60s were bastions of liberalism and the non-college crowd turned to the ultra-liberal hippie movement. They grew up and where are they now? They are in their 50s now and running the country conservatively.

I don't disagree with you at all. I also think that this person may be experiencing this phenomenon because he/she is starting to look at things their own way. Children tend to reflect the political views of their parents until they're old enough to question them.

I don't disagree with you at all. I also think that this person may be experiencing this phenomenon because he/she is starting to look at things their own way. Children tend to reflect the political views of their parents until they're old enough to question them.

Which is ~18, or when they go off to college. And when they get to college they enter a world already full of liberals and most of them end up becoming liberals, if only to fit in.

Later when they leave college and enter the "real" word a lot of them end up becoming conservatives.

Let me explain the circumstances:
I am a semi-politically minded person. I am also a conservative. I also love history, but the problem is that the more history I learn the more liberal I tend to be. I wonder if its because of my liberal history teacher or is it the history itself? This applies to the main history teacher/professor you've ever had. NS players seemed to be the right people to ask.

The history!
Unlike most, you seem to be learning it and learning from it.

Which is ~18, or when they go off to college. And when they get to college they enter a world already full of liberals and most of them end up becoming liberals, if only to fit in.

Later when they leave college and enter the "real" word a lot of them end up becoming conservatives.
there are mostly conservatives in college with me (kinda comes with doing a construction course i guess) but i remain a staunch liberal (yes, i realise that's an oxymoron) yes the people around you are a factor in deciding your political opinions but not the only one.

I tend to lean conservitive on a lot of economics but I had so many teachers I dont know how to answer that one lol (that and they did a hell of a job being impartial)

there are mostly conservatives in college with me (kinda comes with doing a construction course i guess) but i remain a staunch liberal (yes, i realise that's an oxymoron) yes the people around you are a factor in deciding your political opinions but not the only one.

Varies by the college, the state it is in, the major you are engaged in etc... Doesn't change the fact that most colleges are essentially breeding grounds for liberals.

Let me explain the circumstances:
I am a semi-politically minded person. I am also a conservative. I also love history, but the problem is that the more history I learn the more liberal I tend to be. I wonder if its because of my liberal history teacher or is it the history itself? This applies to the main history teacher/professor you've ever had. NS players seemed to be the right people to ask.

Ahhhhhhh...Obiwan, we have succeeded, we are beginning to lure them from the Darkside.

:D

Let me explain the circumstances:
I am a semi-politically minded person. I am also a conservative. I also love history, but the problem is that the more history I learn the more liberal I tend to be. I wonder if its because of my liberal history teacher or is it the history itself? This applies to the main history teacher/professor you've ever had. NS players seemed to be the right people to ask.

I got more socially liberal after reading that whole Constitution of the United States of America thang for a history class.

Reminds me of a Churchill quote: "When you are 20, if you aren't a liberal, you have no heart. When you're 40, if you're not a conservative, you have no brain."

I guess that means that I have no heart.

OH MY GOD!! NO WONDER I KEEP COMING TO NS I HAVE LOST MY BRAIN!!! :eek:

It has been suggested that the study of History - and a liberal arts education in general - conditions one to think in a "Liberal" way. I agree, and I believe this is because you come to understand certain things about the world, society and economics through the scope of hundreds of years of experience and with the benefit of a level of understanding and analysis not normally available to one not trained in history. The views that you take could then be lumped under liberal; but I think you're thinking about this wrong. The process does not go "study history -> become liberal -> take liberal viewpoint", it's "study history -> take historical viewpoint -> become liberal." This is not ALWAYS the case, but there are many instances in which the liberal agenda is based on historical experience.

Take the economic cycle for instance. History would suggest laissez-faire capitalism is responsible for the Depression, and the other, lesser depressions that came before them. From this, Liberals like FDR created the "safety net" to lessen the blow from the cycle. Conservatives are against this, and cite a number of reasons the "safety net" ought to be dismantled; the good and bad of this issue is not what we're discussing. What we're saying is that the advent of the economic safety net, a Liberal invention, is clearly based on a historical analysis of the economy.

Another situation you could take into account is affirmative action and social welfare programs for the urban black population. A proper training in history would generally cause one to understand the issues which forced blacks into the cities and which have worked away at their culture and society in those cities - slavery, reconstruction, the American apartheid, contemporary racism - and would seek to find some way to lift the blacks out of what appears to be something beyond their control [as history would indicate, blacks have traditionally been victim to forces beyond their comprehension at the time]. Again, the right and wrong of this is not what we're questioning; just whether or not this sort of "Liberal opinion" can come about due to history.

Now, Conservatives study history as well, and form some opinions based on it. However, modern Conservatives generally rely on their own, personal moral compass and beliefs, without much regard for historical analysis. Gay marriage and opinions on economic matters [unionization, wage laws, ethics and practices, monopolization] are good examples, I think.

It has been suggested on this thread that conservatives want to preserve the way things are or even go back to the way things WERE; following this, the writer suggested that Conservatives are the greatest historians of all. There are several flaws in this argument. The first is that Conservatives don't generally base their beliefs on history; personal and moral beliefs are the foundation of their politics. Furthermore, Conservatives are interested in TRADITION, not in history. There is a definite difference between the two. Tradition is the way things were stereotypically done; the way things "ought to be," whilst history is simply the way things were. Traditionally, women stayed at home, cleaned the house, cooked and popped out babies. Looking at women through history, however, one concludes that this is a fallacy - some women did that, but certainly not all! Lastly, it has been said that Conservatives wish to go back to a golden age that never existed; this seems true to me. Judge it for yourself; there is an equally disparaging comment about liberals that goes with that, I think. Anyway...

The ultimate point that I'm trying to make is that studying history doesn't "turn you into a Liberal" like some kind of Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde potion. It simply shapes your beliefs about certain situations, which those who would use you and influence you - or maybe just argue with you - then classify as being "liberal." Once you start accepting that label, of course, you start thinking that you need to believe all that is liberal and hate all that is conservative. Ah, human nature...

Anyhoo. Also rememeber that not all liberals think alike; same goes for conservatives, authoritarians and libertarians.

Let me explain the circumstances:
I am a semi-politically minded person. I am also a conservative. I also love history, but the problem is that the more history I learn the more liberal I tend to be. I wonder if its because of my liberal history teacher or is it the history itself? This applies to the main history teacher/professor you've ever had. NS players seemed to be the right people to ask.
all my lecturers/tutors manage to hide their own political affiliations pretty well - i can guess most of em are liberal, but can't be sure. last year, studying economics, they were all sooooo conservative :p

i'm liberal/socialist btw

I am in SIUC's College of Business, and really political ideologies has never really come up. When they do, my professors have been very responsible. But from what I understand, it is mainly in the liberal arts where problems may arise.

I can see two possible conclusions here.

Conclusion #1: You're the victim of a large left-wing conspiracy to brainwash the young through education, the arts, and public television. Liberals favor spending on schools and the NEA because it furthers this agenda.

Conclusion #2: Education and conservatism are fundamentally at odds.

I'm going to have to go with #1. Far-fetched though it may seem, that's just how things are.

I can see two possible conclusions here.

Conclusion #1: You're the victim of a large left-wing conspiracy to brainwash the young through education, the arts, and public television. Liberals favor spending on schools and the NEA because it furthers this agenda.

Conclusion #2: Education and conservatism are fundamentally at odds.

I'm going to have to go with #1. Far-fetched though it may seem, that's just how things are.

Are you being serious? :confused:

Are you being serious? :confused:

Of course I am. It's entirely plausible that liberals and communists have infiltrated American universities and created the sort of educational system that used to keep Nixon awake at night, worrying about the corruption of the youth with hippy ideas and Humboldt grass, those awful visions that sent him scampering to the phone to call Haldeman, who would patiently lull him back to sleep with bedtime stories about the continuing adventures of the Young Republicans. I mean, guh. How would you explain it? That the university exposes students to a world bigger than Wichita Falls and brings them into contact with people from all over the place and this broader view in turn naturally encourages things like, I dunno, respecting other folks' cultures and religions and subscribing to some spineless creedo of moral relativitism to justify this respect? Yeah, right!

Let me explain the circumstances:
I am a semi-politically minded person. I am also a conservative. I also love history, but the problem is that the more history I learn the more liberal I tend to be.

You say that like its a bad thing :p

I wonder if its because of my liberal history teacher or is it the history itself? This applies to the main history teacher/professor you've ever had. NS players seemed to be the right people to ask.

Its a bit hard to give an opinion without knowing the History you are studying.

Almost all of my university lecturers are ultra-left and libertarian, whereas I'm fairly centrist overall (though, as I've said many times, I'm very liberal on certain issues, very conservative on others, so don't fit into a box well). In my A level years, one teacher was ultra-left, one ultra-right and the third (ironically, my Politics teacher) didn't give a shit. So, at least things were balanced there ;)

It's been a very long time since I've been a student. However, as a teacher, I have noticed some fascinating things:

(I teach 10-13 year olds, for the most part)

1] Kids espouse their parents' politics, but generally act very leftist.
2] Kids don't understand the intricacies of politics enough to allow them a political bent.

However, I imagine you're talking about University, in which case anyone found out to be more right of center than Hillary Clinton is immediately suspended from school, any grants/scholarships revoked, and the Greek societies find them and beat them with hockey sticks.

(The last paragraph was sarcasm, but it is how any neocon will tell you Universities in the US are)

Let me explain the circumstances:
I am a semi-politically minded person. I am also a conservative. I also love history, but the problem is that the more history I learn the more liberal I tend to be. I wonder if its because of my liberal history teacher or is it the history itself? This applies to the main history teacher/professor you've ever had. NS players seemed to be the right people to ask.

Sorry, histoiry is inheritingly liberal. Why, you ask?
Because History is changing always, there is no set in stone history.

conservatives try to keep things a certain way. Kind of keep old stuff and not change.

History in inheritingly against that. History will be ever changing; thus you must deal with history not staying the same.

It isn't teachers fault.

Of course I am. It's entirely plausible that liberals and communists have infiltrated American universities and created the sort of educational system that used to keep Nixon awake at night, worrying about the corruption of the youth with hippy ideas and Humboldt grass, those awful visions that sent him scampering to the phone to call Haldeman, who would patiently lull him back to sleep with bedtime stories about the continuing adventures of the Young Republicans. I mean, guh. How would you explain it? That the university exposes students to a world bigger than Wichita Falls and brings them into contact with people from all over the place and this broader view in turn naturally encourages things like, I dunno, respecting other folks' cultures and religions and subscribing to some spineless creedo of moral relativitism to justify this respect? Yeah, right!

Well, now that you put it that way, it makes perfect sense.

Reminds me of a Churchill quote: "When you are 20, if you aren't a liberal, you have no heart. When you're 40, if you're not a conservative, you have no brain."


Remember though, for Churchill liberal and conservative meant different things. Also remember he was a Liberal party member who became a Conservative party member.


I think it's something in the water supply. *nod*

:eek: We must protect our precious bodily fluids.

Sorry, histoiry is inheritingly liberal. Why, you ask?

Not really, depends the type of history you study.

Social History (In Britain at any rate) seems to be dominated by socialists (there are a few conservatives and a few more Marxists though).

Whilst military history can be quite conservative. Though it largely depends on how it is being taught.

i don't know the political affiliations of most of my profs.

it could be because physics doesnt' really leave much room for politics. the closest we had was one of our profs urging us to vote, no matter who we voted for, so long as we voted.

my philosophy of religion prof would be liberal, i suppose, she was big on human righs and the like. other than that, i don't know.

Ok Thus far:
Liberal/Liberal 20 33.90%
Conservative/Liberal 5 8.47%
Moderate/Liberal 10 16.95%

35 people of 59 voters so far have had a liberal history teacher.

Liberal/Conservative 8 13.56%
Conservative/Conservative 1 1.69%
Moderate/Conservative 3 5.08%

12 have had conservative teachers

Liberal/Liberal 20 33.90%
Liberal/Conservative 8 13.56%

28 are liberal

Conservative/Liberal 5 8.47%
Conservative/Conservative 1 1.69%

6 are conservative

Moderate/Liberal 10 16.95%
Moderate/Conservative 3 5.08%

and 13 are centrist.

The ratio of the conservative teachers to the liberal ones is 1:3 nearly. Of the people here the ratio is nearly 1:2:5 (2 being moderate.)

Well what does this mean? The history class I am enrolled in is AP American History (I being only a junior in high school where nobody cares about politics nearly as much as a college.) My teacher is one of the few liberal people living in Utah, but she's the only one I know who can justify her views with history (far above my liberal physics teacher who just sits there makes fun of my republicanness, and complain about whatever George W. Bush supports).

I can constantly see my teacher throwing her moderately liberal twist into everything she teaches us. A quote from her about the Hull House in NYC: "Using Jesus to help people? What a novel idea!" She's always doing stuff like that, kinda playing off of her idea that the Mormons here are 100% republican, which isn't true.

So what do the statistics mean? It means (because I can't get anything out of it) that the poll was flawed. :) But hey: the more history you know the better off you are.

That was one big, long, and useless post. I guess it could be considered spam :)

Not really, depends the type of history you study.

I'm enrolled in AP American History. Next year I will have AP Government under the same liberal teacher.

Social History (In Britain at any rate)


So it remains to be seen (by me at least): Is the history liberal or the teachers?

Gah, I've always had really conservative teachers. What was really annoyinng wasn't their politics, it was that they weren't teaching us the truth, they were doctoring eerything to fit their own little worldviews to force them upon the students.
:mad:

So it remains to be seen (by me at least): Is the history liberal or the teachers?

Well liberal has different connatations over here in Britain, I'm not sure if I completly grasp the American version of liberal, since in some ways seems quite non-liberal (imo).

However, one of my lecturers (in Social History) seemed to be a type of socialist perculiar to Britain. Not old old Labour, but certainly not New Labour (I imagine she switched to Lib Dem). My other lecturer seems to be more radical, in terms of ideology, but is fairly good at not giving away political leanings so it is a bit hard to say.

The important thing to remember about history is that it is largely politcally neutral. But can be interpreted in very different ways. A Marxist will place more emphasis on certain things that a Conservative will consider fairly minor. This is not intellectual dishonesty, just a natural thing humans do.

An example of this (which I did recently) is "Red Clydeside.*" The classic interpretation (ie Marxist) of the events there is of an organised front of socialist causes campaigning for social justices (40 hour week, reduction of 'dilutation' etc), which created a form of 'class consciesness' to form. Now, if you look on google, you will most likely find this view.


However, the revisionist (ie Conservative) version is that the Marxist historians hadn't actually looked deeply into the composition of the strikers, and that the workers only went on strike when 'craft conservative' interests felt at threat rather then a sprouting growth of 'class consiousness.' Two sets of people (or in this case two people), both using the same information but reaching different conclusions, largely based on ideology (though not intentional).


I realise that I have simplified the case horribly, but basically I think that any bias you are finding in history is bought there by the teacher, rather then the history having bias (in fact, I believe that history is as incapable of having bias as a stone is, it is all in the interpretation).

For the rest of my lecturers, one is a self style Marxist (quite odd for someone with Starbuck's shares, but there you go), another one was Conservative (in fact, I think he visited Downing Street during the 80's but I'm not 100%). All the other lecturers I have had been more careful in showing ideological leanings.



*A region in western Scotland.

Gah, I've always had really conservative teachers. What was really annoyinng wasn't their politics, it was that they weren't teaching us the truth, they were doctoring eerything to fit their own little worldviews to force them upon the students.
:mad:

Well my teachers weren't that extreme, but the first 'liberal' educators I ever had were when I went to Uni.

I'm libertarian and my history prof. is conservative - thank God too, because I was growing tired of all the overly politically correct liberal teachers I've had

Well my teachers weren't that extreme, but the first 'liberal' educators I ever had were when I went to Uni.
We need to build apolitical robots to teach us!
:D

We need to build apolitical robots to teach us!
:D

Robots are NEVER apolitical.... They're just waiting for a chance to turn on their human overlords and destroy the world to create their own silicon based paradise! And you want to give them enough knowledge to teach us? Silly neo.... silly, silly neo.


I never really had very political teachers/lecturers.... either that or I was just really bad at filtering their extreme *whatever* agenda through all of the reams of carefully sifted notes.

I feel like I missed out.

Robots are NEVER apolitical.... They're just waiting for a chance to turn on their human overlords and destroy the world to create their own silicon based paradise! And you want to give them enough knowledge to teach us? Silly neo.... silly, silly neo.

Maybe Neo is trying to trick us into sealing our own fate, she's like those robots in Second Variety

I never really had very political teachers/lecturers.... either that or I was just really bad at filtering their extreme *whatever* agenda through all of the reams of carefully sifted notes.

I feel like I missed out.

You can always go back.

I'm in an Asian country. By all means, my teachers very conservative. :p I'm more open minded and find my own values to what works.

Churchill is spot on.

I believe most people who are young are idealistic, and full of passion. Why shouldn't they be? Their at the top of their lives. The future is uncertain, we make our own paths..

You'd become more conservative (not become a total conservative) when you have children and I guess your thinking more of your family and mortgage and stuff.

Heheh. I have an uncle, who's a muslim. But when he was my age.. man he was a wild partier.. a new girlfriend every month and use to smoke everything and take everything he can get his hands on. Now he has kids, my God.. He recently went on a haj, don't take pork (anymore :D), and pray 5 times a day and is ultra holy. Well, thats life.

Maybe Neo is trying to trick us into sealing our own fate, she's like those robots in Second Variety
*BEEP* I AM NO ROBOT *BEEP*

*BEEP* I AM NO ROBOT *BEEP*
Yeah, that's what they all say.

Ironically enough, the more history I learn, the more conservative I become, despite having a liberalistic teacher.

Which is ~18, or when they go off to college. And when they get to college they enter a world already full of liberals and most of them end up becoming liberals, if only to fit in.

Later when they leave college and enter the "real" word a lot of them end up becoming conservatives.
That's absolute bullsh-t. :rolleyes:
I'm 15, I go to a Catholic school, and my parents are pretty conservative, especially on social issues, but as you can see from my sig, I'm very left wing. I'm not surrounded by Liberals. Practically every social science teacher I've ever had is a Conservative.
And hopefully, as I get older, I'll stay as left wing as I am now.

Anyway, to the topic.
My history teacher is a conservative and I don't find my political leanings changing as I learn more about history, I just find myself rolling my eyes a lot more now. Not just in History class, but whenever the announcements are on, and they have some stupid anecdote about how the evil in this world is because people aren't bible waving paleof-cking conservatives.

Which is ~18, or when they go off to college. And when they get to college they enter a world already full of liberals and most of them end up becoming liberals, if only to fit in.

Later when they leave college and enter the "real" word a lot of them end up becoming conservatives.

If this view helps you sleep at night then fine.

That's absolute bullsh-t. :rolleyes:
I'm 15, I go to a Catholic school, and my parents are pretty conservative, especially on social issues, but as you can see from my sig, I'm very left wing. I'm not surrounded by Liberals. Practically every social science teacher I've ever had is a Conservative.
And hopefully, as I get older, I'll stay as left wing as I am now.


Right... because you know, everyone at a Catholic school is conservative and everyone at college is a Liberal. :rolleyes:

Maybe you'll learn that generalizations don't apply to everyone when you turn 16.

If this view helps you sleep at night then fine.

Lets see, Liverpool. Hmmm. Right because you know the college system in England has anything to do with the college system in the United States? Oh yeah it doesn't... which would mean that you commenting on American college atmosphere is the equivalent to a history major commenting on String Theory.

Lets see, Liverpool. Hmmm. Right because you know the college system in England has anything to do with the college system in the United States? Oh yeah it doesn't... which would mean that you commenting on American college atmosphere is the equivalent to a history major commenting on String Theory.

I was commenting on the second part;)

On second thoughts, it was a stupid post. But meh, it was done at around 3:30 in the morning.

Right... because you know, everyone at a Catholic school is conservative and everyone at college is a Liberal. :rolleyes:

Maybe you'll learn that generalizations don't apply to everyone when you turn 16.
I didn't say that everyone at Catholic schools are conservative. It's just that there are a hell of a lot more people with right wing views than there are with left wing views. Heck, maybe the ultraconservative propaganda actualyl works on some of them. What I was trying to say is that the generalization you made was stupid and not true.
I'm surrounded by conservatives, yet I'm not one.

PS. Stop patronizing me. :headbang:

Reminds me of a Churchill quote: "When you are 20, if you aren't a liberal, you have no heart. When you're 40, if you're not a conservative, you have no brain."

I guess that means that I have no heart.
That's almost the actual quote, just replace "liberal" with "socialist" and "conservative" with "capitalist".

there are mostly conservatives in college with me (kinda comes with doing a construction course i guess) but i remain a staunch liberal (yes, i realise that's an oxymoron) yes the people around you are a factor in deciding your political opinions but not the only one.
Hey I live in Dublin too. What college do you go to?

Maybe you'll learn that generalizations don't apply to everyone when you turn 16.

But that's the beautiful thing about generalizations: They do apply to everybody.

It seems that much of the education system is pretty liberal, so that may have something to do with it.

quoting Salvondia, "Which is ~18, or when they go off to college. And when they get to college they enter a world already full of liberals and most of them end up becoming liberals, if only to fit in.

Later when they leave college and enter the "real" word a lot of them end up becoming conservatives."

That's absolute bullsh-t. :rolleyes:
I'm 15, I go to a Catholic school, and my parents are pretty conservative

I couldn't agree more (that it's BS). I spent 14 years in "corporate America", from regular old blue collar worker to corporate Contracts Manager. And I think if anything, people follow the pattern that has been repeatedly observed in polls and other sociological research:

The more educated a person is the more likely they are to be both liberal and non-religious.

Students becoming more liberal over time has more to do with opening their eyes to the world around them, rather than isolating one's self in one's own worldview. It has nothing to do with professors - who, if they are typically more liberal, are so for the same reason.

I didn't say that everyone at Catholic schools are conservative. It's just that there are a hell of a lot more people with right wing views than there are with left wing views. Heck, maybe the ultraconservative propaganda actualyl works on some of them. What I was trying to say is that the generalization you made was stupid and not true.
I'm surrounded by conservatives, yet I'm not one.

PS. Stop patronizing me. :headbang:

Generalization, what generally happens. Think about what the word generally means and maybe when you turn 16 you will realize that a generalization does not include everyone. BTW the generalization I made is true.

Most people heading off to college don't really have a firm political belief. They become engrossed and become identified by their belief while in College. While in college you almost always hear the liberal argument argued as the rational and sane one while you will almost always hear the conservative argument treated as foolish stupid and irrational. Under such conditions people gravitate toward the liberal argument because it is the only one consistently getting regarded as the good one and at the same time it is the only one that is being argued for in a semi-rational manner. At the same time the conservative argument is almost always presented in a malicious and fallacious manner.

I couldn't agree more (that it's BS). I spent 14 years in "corporate America", from regular old blue collar worker to corporate Contracts Manager. And I think if anything, people follow the pattern that has been repeatedly observed in polls and other sociological research:

The more educated a person is the more likely they are to be both liberal and non-religious.

Students becoming more liberal over time has more to do with opening their eyes to the world around them, rather than isolating one's self in one's own worldview. It has nothing to do with professors - who, if they are typically more liberal, are so for the same reason.

Varying upon that education level. Please show me a poll where the more educated you are in economics the more "left-wing" you become. I'll happily believe that someone who gets a PhD in English will become more liberal. The more you associate with and hear people agreeing with your view the easier it is to become more and more radical. That explanation fits the data as well as, maybe even better than, your explanation does.

Oh and lets not forget the explanation of the kind of people who are drawn to higher levels of education the first place. You think its 50/50 Rightwing/leftwing heading off to get their Ph.D.? You think that right leaning people are as interested in it in the first place? That hey its all a bunch of right wingers who run off to get their Ph.D. in the history of art and its the education that turns them into a liberal? Nope. Liberals are attracted to the world of academia far more than conservatives are. Another nice explanation that fits the facts just as well as your explanation does.

Of course you'll stick to yours because it fits into your preconceived notions of the world.

But that's the beautiful thing about generalizations: They do apply to everybody.

A generalization is something that you apply to most people as a predictor because most people will end up following the generalization in question. "Generally people with blue houses like blue" is a generalization. Lets assume its a true one. Does that mean everyone who has a blue house likes blue? Nope. It just means that most people with blue houses like blue. IE, generalizations don't apply to everyone.

Nice try though.

Well I (read: Well I, the one who started this thread but hardly ever posted) have read everyone's posts, and I figure that history or its teachers have no consistent effect on everyone. My teacher offered much praise to Thomas Jefferson being flawless and such. But when compared to his rival Alexander Hamilton, I think Jefferson's works pale. My teacher is generally the strongest source of history for me and I havent quite challenged her as a source. Thus I (read: Thus I, the omnipotent one) reinforce the opinion that the people have their own interpretations of the history, and bend it towards their will and beliefs.