NationStates Jolt Archive

Okay, here it comes.

My question for the people that come from the island of Britain is do you really think you are one nation/country?
Do you not say you are English, Scottish, (N-?) Irish and Welsh?
Many here have said that you are one country, mostly the English, but you all have your own football teams and other sports teams, your own divisions, military regiments, language, history, culture, your own national flags, people, governments etc.
Personally I allways say that someone is English, Scottish, Irish or Welsh depending on were they are from.

im Northern Irish before im British or Irish

you all have your own....national flags
Northern Ireland doesnt

I suppose so, though I'd always think of myself as English rather than British.
The Act of Union has been around for some time, and it's now taken for granted. Being fair, the culture in all the seperate nations is largely homogenous anyway.

Do you not say you are English, Scottish, (N-?) Irish and Welsh?

Personally I consider myself as someone who was born and lives in Belfast more than someone who has a nationality - but by default, because I have a British passport, rather than an Irish one (although I could carry one) I guess I have to describe myself as British/from Northern Ireland. This doesn't mean that I am entirely happy with the political setup here, but it remains a fact that I am a product of Northern Irish culture.

I percieve myself as being British more than I am Scottish.

Northern Ireland doesnt

We used to though until 1969 or so IIRC.

Edit: 1972.

We used to though until 1969 or so IIRC.
yup, then it, along with the Northern Irish national anthem, got dropped so as not to offend

I myself am Scottish. I call myslef Scottish. I would not usually call myself British. We are not one nation/country. We are a collective (hence the 'United' Kingdom). Unfortuantely, most decisions regarding actions taken by Britain are taken by the English and the Government in Westminster. In Scotland we have the Scottish Parliament, but we still do not have full control of what goes on in our own country, or who we go to war with, etc.

yup, then it, along with the Northern Irish national anthem, got dropped so as not to offend

National anthem? Correct me if I'm wrong her, but NI never had a national anthem (other than the UK one) and it hasn't been officially dropped, no?

National anthem? Correct me if I'm wrong her, but NI never had a national anthem (other than the UK one) and it hasn't been officially dropped, no?
Londonderry Air apparently

I'm half-and-half, I suppose. I'd much rather call myself "Scottish" than "British". But I don't know...

What really gets my goat is when people address things (for example) to "Glasgow, England". That's just wrong.

[Edit: Scotland doesn't have an official National Anthem either.]

I would call myself English rather than British

Londonderry Air apparently

Never officially though - it is/was of the same status as 'Flower Of Scotland'.

British then Scotish, i like teh empire.

does Wales have a national anthem? official or not.

I always describe myself as English before British, but that's more to do with us having separate football teams than anything else. But within that I also see myself as a northerner and also European and just plain human.

Never officially though - it is/was of the same status as 'Flower Of Scotland'.
oh ok, Wikipedia lies...

does Wales have a national anthem? official or not.

Well both 'Land of my Fathers' and 'Cwm Rhonda' are considered unofficial anthems for Wales.

I call myself British. I'm English.

most decisions regarding actions taken by Britain are taken by the English and the Government in Westminster.

There are Scottish members of the government. There are no English members in the Scottish parliament.


do you really think you are one nation/country?

I believe it is technically the same setup as in the US. We are a Union. We may as well be one country, but for reasons unknown to me people like to kick and scream and say we should all seperate.

Londonderry

it's pronounced 'Derry'

it's pronounced 'Derry'

Or alternatively when refering to the city: 'the Maiden City' or even 'Stroke City'. However, as far as the song goes: it is 'Londondery Air' like it or not.

There are Scottish members of the government. There are no English members in the Scottish parliament.

Ah, the dreaded West Lothian question.

I'm English. I'm a British as much as i am European.

does Wales have a national anthem? official or not.

Yes, 'Land of my Fathers'

it's pronounced 'Derry'
the song is called "Londonderry Air"

the city and county are "Londonderry", the council is "Derry City Council" (i think), and thats a good enough compromise for me

I don't like it when people use "British" and "English" interchangeably... I'm especially irritated by "British Accent!"

I always describe myself as English and living in England. I only say British living in the UK if I'm filling in a form and those are the only choices.

I know some people who would say they were Cornish before they would say English, though.

does Wales have a national anthem? official or not.

yes, it goes benhedly mein glagur or somthing, bastards made me learn it in me welsh primary schooling days.

Personally I consider myself as someone who was born and lives in Belfast more than someone who has a nationality - but by default, because I have a British passport, rather than an Irish one (although I could carry one) I guess I have to describe myself as British/from Northern Ireland. This doesn't mean that I am entirely happy with the political setup here, but it remains a fact that I am a product of Northern Irish culture.

Are you steeped in the lore of the Hound of Ulster, the great Cuchulain (sp?)?

Actually the county is Derry and the city is Londonderry, though I seem to recall hearing something about a proposal to rename it Derry.

Are you steeped in the lore of the Hound of Ulster, the great Cuchulain (sp?)?

I wouldn't say steeped, but a passing acquaintance at least.

Actually the county is Derry and the city is Londonderry, though I seem to recall hearing something about a proposal to rename it Derry.

Nope: remember 'FATLAD'? The county is officially called 'Londonderry', like it or not.

I don't like it when people use "British" and "English" interchangeably... I'm especially irritated by "British Accent!"

I can't stand that either! To all Americans (apologies for any generalizations) you're "British accents" are actually "English accents". Scottish accents are different, as are Welsh and Irish.

I don't like it when people use "British" and "English" interchangeably... I'm especially irritated by "British Accent!"
Heh. English accent is almost as bad.

Britain isn't the name of the island is it? I know SO much about my home country...

Great Britain is the name of the landmass comprised of Scotland, Wales, England and outlying small islands.

This message has been deleted by Silly Sharks. Reason: It was kinda pointless...

Anyhow.

I'm British before I am English. Sure I was born in England, but I have family from all over including Eire...kinda like being a mongrel thanks! :D

I'm British

Mildly pissed at the whole Scottish pariliament thing - cheers to them for tuition fees!

But British. I'm never 'English' unless someone asks where in the UK. Then I'm really a southerner.

I would class myself as European first...English next....I don't actually like being called a Brit...

i don't have much choice but to say British. Mainly scottish on my parents side and follow the Scottish football side but i've lived in england all my life and speak with an 'english accent' (for non-americans read that as 'northern accent' or possibly 'lincolnshire accent') and so me saying i'm scottish would sound weird.

Are you sure the county is also so-named? Certainly for all official purposes I've seen here in the South the county is Derry, roadsigns, govt. documents, GAA team etc. etc. and even encyclodedias give both. The city site (http://www.derrycity.gov.uk/) isn't much help on the matter, however, referring to it as Derry City (for obvious reasons).

I do think of myself primaraly as Scottish. I never say I am Brittish before saying I am a Scot.

Hey I have a question for the British folks. What do immigrants to the UK think of themselves as? British? English/Scottish/Welsh? [Nationality of original country]? Or something with a dash in the middle, like British-Chinese or English-Chinese, etc?

My mother is English and my Father is Scottish. Therefore i have always regarded myself as being British. I have a British Passport. Interationally we are know as the United Kingdom. We Have one army, as well as one monarchy. Also when you go abroad you go to a British embassy not a Welsh or English one.

Are you sure the county is also so-named? Certainly for all official purposes I've seen here in the South the county is Derry, roadsigns, govt. documents, GAA team etc. etc. and even encyclodedias give both. The city site (http://www.derrycity.gov.uk/) isn't much help on the matter, however, referring to it as Derry City (for obvious reasons).
its County Londonderry. the official city name is Londonderry.

Are you sure the county is also so-named? Certainly for all official purposes I've seen here in the South the county is Derry, roadsigns, govt. documents, GAA team etc. etc. and even encyclodedias give both. The city site (http://www.derrycity.gov.uk/) isn't much help on the matter, however, referring to it as Derry City (for obvious reasons).
The original (and therefore proper in my opinion) name was Derry; from the irish Doire meaning oak. the"London" part was added by the British.

The original (and therefore proper in my opinion) name was Derry; from the irish Doire meaning oak. the"London" part was added by the British.
Doire/Derry was flattened and a new town built...the new town was called Londonderry

as is my understanding

does Wales have a national anthem? official or not.
Yeah, it goes something like: "Wales Wales Uber Alles" ba ba doop bee ba doop da diddly doo

The most annoying thing is when people say you have a Scottish accent. What is a Scottish accent? In England if someone has a London accent you don't say they have an English accent. You say they have a London accent. People in Edinburgh speak different to someone in Inverness.

Doire/Derry was flattened and a new town built...the new town was called Londonderry

as is my understanding
that seems like a convenient simplification. it's in the same place, the same people are there and it's the largest town in the same county, but let's change the name? it also doesn't account for your claim that the county is Londonderry, they couldn't possibly have flattened the whole county!!

The most annoying thing is when people say you have a Scottish accent. What is a Scottish accent? In England if someone has a London accent you don't say they have an English accent. You say they have a London accent. People in Edinburgh speak different to someone in Inverness.

The same as northern accent, southern accent, cocky accent

Don't forget, London has a bigger population than the whole of Scotland

Does it matter overly? It's Derry City Council and City of Derry Airport and we in Ireland will continue calling it Derry City and County Derry.

that seems like a convenient simplification. it's in the same place, the same people are there and it's the largest town in the same county, but let's change the name? it also doesn't account for your claim that the county is Londonderry, they couldn't possibly have flattened the whole county!!
you never know ;)

the county was originally County Coleraine, then it became County Londonderry....Londonderry being the name of the biggest settlement

its not like the county was County Derry and they changed it, the county has never been County Derry

Does it matter overly? It's Derry City Council and City of Derry Airport and we in Ireland will continue calling it Derry City and County Derry.
because then youre not using the proper name, you dont see me calling the Republic the Free State because thats what it used to be called

Yeah, it goes something like: "Wales Wales Uber Alles" ba ba doop bee ba doop da diddly doo

When I was younger my uncles taught me to sing "Wales, Wales, land of the frogs and the snails."
Gullible 5 year old that I was, I sang it to my Welsh primary school teacher and didn't understand why she looked so offended.

Well the Republic isn't the correct name to call us so you might want to get that right.

The majority of city inhabitants call it Derry and that's good enough for me but we can call it whatever we want, it doesn't matter!

To enlightened Humanity i did not mean any offence. I myself live in London.

To enlightened Humanity i did not mean any offence. I myself live in London.

No offence taken.

How long you lived in London?

that seems like a convenient simplification. it's in the same place, the same people are there and it's the largest town in the same county, but let's change the name? it also doesn't account for your claim that the county is Londonderry, they couldn't possibly have flattened the whole county!!

Entertainingly enough the Ordnance Survey site of Ireland gives 'Derry' as the name of the county, whereas the Ordance Survey site of Northern Ireland gives 'Londonderry'... proof that the debate continues at the highest international level.

Well the Republic isn't the correct name to call us so you might want to get that right.
Ireland

better?

still, the point stands, i dont call it the Irish Free State because it used to be called that
The majority of inhabitants call it Derry and that's good enough for me but we can call it whatever we want, it doesn't matter!
i would imagine the majority of inhabitents of the county dont care if you call it Derry or Londonderry, but you should at least make an effort...call the city Derry if you want because the council is Derry City Council etc, but the county has never been County Derry

Entertainingly enough the Ordnance Survey site of Ireland gives 'Derry' as the name of the county, whereas the Ordance Survey site of Northern Ireland gives 'Londonderry'... proof that the debate continues at the highest international level.
i dont care what people call the city, but i do think the county should be called County Londonderry...simply because its never been County Derry so theres no basis for it

if youre going to call it something different you might as well call it County Coleraine, thats where the admin for it is done

As I said, it doesn't matter what it's called really, does it? Some Irish people will call it Derry (city and county) and others Londonderry (city and county). We all know what's meant by it so where is the problem?

i dont care what people call the city, but i do think the county should be called County Londonderry...simply because its never been County Derry so theres no basis for it

Unless you recognise the right of the claim to sovereignty over all the 32 counties which used to be in the Irish constitution... in which case it has been County Derry ever since the southerners adopted that name for it.

Unless you recognise the right of the claim to sovereignty over all the 32 counties which used to be in the Irish constitution... in which case it has been County Derry ever since the southerners adopted that name for it.
which i dont ;)

I don't feel particuarly English or British, or the nationality of my parents.

If pushed then Mancunian.

Ah, the joys of living in a society which still has shibboleths.

I've always thought of myself as British, rather than English. Although actually, I can't say I label myself as either very often. Except when I'm filling out forms, then it's always "White - British"...

Ah one of the actual Northerns must tell us! A friend of my mom's (from Belfast, me thinks) said you could tell what side of the Nationalist/Unionist divide someone was from by how they pronounced words, how easy and accurate is this?

Ah one of the actual Northerns must tell us! A friend of my mom's (from Belfast, me thinks) said you could tell what side of the Nationalist/Unionist divide someone was from by how they pronounced words, how easy and accurate is this?
you can supposedly tell by how they pronounce the letter "h" but not full words really...

supposedly catholics say "haitch" and protestants say "aitch", but i know quite a few protestants who say "haitch" and vice versa...

Ah one of the actual Northerns must tell us! A friend of my mom's (from Belfast, me thinks) said you could tell what side of the Nationalist/Unionist divide someone was from by how they pronounced words, how easy and accurate is this?

'H'.

To elucidate: those brought up in the 'Catholic' culture will say 'haitch' while those brought up in the 'Protestant' culture will say 'aitch'. As to how reliable it is: pretty good, but it should be borne in mind that an individual's particular political affiliations and beliefs are not wholy determined by their upbringing, and so there are those raised 'Protestant' who are actually Nationalist/Republicans and there are those raised 'Catholic' who are actually Loyalist/Unionist.

And is that the only one that 'gives it away', as such?

And is that the only one that 'gives it away', as such?
only one i know of

not that it should be trusted

another one is how they pronounce their favourite Scottish premier league football team. if they pronounce it "rangers" theyre usually protestant, if they pronounce it "celtic" theyre usually catholic.

meh

Ah, the joys of living in a society which still has shibboleths.
They are fun ;)

And is that the only one that 'gives it away', as such?

Its the main one: other clues come from the slightly different accents which exist in the city and their corresponding religious/cultural make-ups. Of course, this is ignoring the obvious fact that a fenian's eyes are too close together.

Its the main one: other clues come from the slightly different accents which exist in the city and their corresponding religious/cultural make-ups. Of course, this is ignoring the obvious fact that a fenian's eyes are too close together.
hehe :)

this country is so fucking stupid

i have no idea what 'shibboleths' means though...


edit: see the Portadown News the other week? Clark Gable...

ok i just started reading this so sorry if im refering to things in the beginning, but...
"Being fair, the culture in all the seperate nations is largely homogenous anyway." -saxnot
---my dad is Glasweigian and my mom is american, but i have been to scotland many, many times and the culture is extremely different between the different countries in the United Kingdom. (especially from a musical viewpoint, and thats a big part of the culture)
"[Edit: Scotland doesn't have an official National Anthem either.]" -(i dont know who said this, but it was posted on troon's post)
---Scotland has an "unofficial" national anthem, Flowers of Scotland, you hear it at the scotland football games
---and (no offense to any english reading this) generally scottish people dont want to be associated with the english (mostly jokingly) (i know a really good english joke, tell me if anyone wants to hear it)

(Fidhealleisg-fiddlefish in scottish Gaelic)

hehe :)

this country is so fucking stupid

i have no idea what 'shibboleths' means though...

Clicky. (http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~kemmer/Words/shibboleth.html)


edit: see the Portadown News the other week? Clark Gable...

Indeed.

I'm thinking of a couple of other linguistic divisions which exist here - there's the Protestant term 'the mainland' as used to describe the island of Great Britain, and also the distinction between 'Ardoyne' and 'the Ardoyne'. Not forgetting the aforementioned Derry/Londonderry malarky.

I'm British.

My father is Scottish 'ish, Scottish father with a cockney mother, wheras my mother is Irish (from the republic) and I was born in England, but only lived here for 2 months before moving to Cyprus and then spent the next 14 years living in various other countries around europe with other British kids and families. Our friends were British people from the length and breadth of the British isles and natives of whatever country we were in at the time. I learnt to love and respect them all as equals and have very little time for national stereotyping or nationalism because of this.

I am definitly British first, English second.

'Ardoyne' and 'the Ardoyne'

Which is which?

Clicky. (http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~kemmer/Words/shibboleth.html)

ah ok, like i said...stupid place
Indeed.

I'm thinking of a couple of other linguistic divisions which exist here - there's the Protestant term 'the mainland' as used to describe the island of Great Britain, and also the distinction between 'Ardoyne' and 'the Ardoyne'. Not forgetting the aforementioned Derry/Londonderry malarky.
well, theres the name for Northern Ireland itself...the 6 Counties, Northern Ireland etc

well, theres the name for Northern Ireland itself...the 6 Counties, Northern Ireland etc

Nevermind the continual blurring and redefinition of the term 'Ulster' depending upon who is using it and in what context (ie. six or nine counties).

Nevermind the continual blurring and redefinition of the term 'Ulster' depending upon who is using it and in what context (ie. six or nine counties).
*sigh*...id forgotten about that one...

Clicky. (http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~kemmer/Words/shibboleth.html)

Interesting back story, never realised where the word came from.

Though how do you pronounce it? I use the Gileadites' way (with the 'sh')

Though how do you pronounce it? I use the Gileadites' way (with the 'sh')

I too appear to be a Gileadite. A Protestant Gileadite, mind you...

...old Northern Ireland joke: 'Yes, but are you a Protestant Jew or a Catholic Jew?'

Nevermind the continual blurring and redefinition of the term 'Ulster' depending upon who is using it and in what context (ie. six or nine counties).
My guess that SF would call it the 9 counties, and DUP et al would call it the 6 counties.

Right?

My guess that SF would call it the 9 counties, and DUP et al would call it the 6 counties.

Right?

Pretty much. We also have another term - 'the Province' which I guess is a Protestant/British way of attempting not to give offense but still managing to put their foot in it.

Of course, this is ignoring the obvious fact that a fenian's eyes are too close together.

Wheras you cant see the ***'s eyes for the fire of hedes that burns beneath :)

Pretty much. We also have another term - 'the Province' which I guess is a Protestant/British way of attempting not to give offense but still managing to put their foot in it.
i thought the only people who called it "the Province" were the BBC...

Wheras you cant see the ***'s eyes for the fire of hedes that burns beneath :)

No, the fact is that us huns are too busy running about kicking the ball with the correct (right) foot, and so you never get a chance to meet our steely gaze.

i thought the only people who called it "the Province" were the BBC...


Protestant/British

My case is rested.

My case is rested.
you make a good point

I see myself as Scottish. I call myself Scottish or a UK citizen (for particular legal reasons. I'm not British. I'm DEFINITELY not English!
I get annoyed with some of the British/English muckups that people make, like showing the Union Flag as a symbol of England.
And I'm not Scotch. That's a drink.

No, the fact is that us huns are too busy running about kicking the ball with the correct (right) foot, and so you never get a chance to meet our steely gaze.
:D

It just occured to me I have no idea where the term 'left footer' comes from.

My question for the people that come from the island of Britain is do you really think you are one nation/country?

Yes, it's called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

The Kingdom of England, the Kingdom of Scotland, the Principality of Wales, and that nuggetty bit of Ireland we got to keep, are obsolete as political entities in their own right.

I never think of myself as British and I believe in Scottish independence from the UK.

I'm British first, English second.
It pisses me off though when people refer to England when they mean Britain (or the UK) and that the English football team plays "God Save the Queen" before matches. Surely that should only be played if it was a British team, so they should play "Land of Hope and Glory".

After living in Scotland for a year with very patriotic Scots (from which I decend) I can say for them definetly Scottish first. I even say I went to school in Scotland not Britain.

Northern Ireland doesnt
Is this not our national flag? (http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/lds/meridian/2003/images/ulster.gif) Seriously, if not, what is it - just some symbol of unionism? My knowledge of Northern Irish history is shite.

another one is how they pronounce their favourite Scottish premier league football team. if they pronounce it "rangers" theyre usually protestant, if they pronounce it "celtic" theyre usually catholic.LOL ;)

I can't really think of any other linguistic divides other than the 'h' one, but as Nadkor says, that can be pretty unreliable sometimes. Mind you, if someone called Malachy pronounces it 'haitch' and someone called Billy pronounces it 'aitch', you can be pretty sure what 'side' each is on.

In relation to the original post, I consider myself British in general, because whether I like it or not (and I don't mind it, though I wouldn't mind a united Ireland either), I am currently living in a legal jurisdiction of the UK. However, when abroad and people ask me where I'm from, I just say 'Ireland'. It's simpler than trying to explain the whole geo-political debacle from both sides.

Anyway, I'm off to bed. Goodnight, folks!

Is this not our national flag? (http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/lds/meridian/2003/images/ulster.gif) Seriously, if not, what is it - just some symbol of unionism? My knowledge of Northern Irish history is shite.

'twas until 1972, then they decided we didnt deserve a flag, or would just argue over it or something...the latter is pretty much right actually...

LOL ;)

I can't really think of any other linguistic divides other than the 'h' one, but as Nadkor says, that can be pretty unreliable sometimes. Mind you, if someone called Malachy pronounces it 'haitch' and someone called Billy pronounces it 'aitch', you can be pretty sure what 'side' each is on.
well, that would certainly leave a few clues lol

In relation to the original post, I consider myself British in general, because whether I like it or not (and I don't mind it, though I wouldn't mind a united Ireland either), I am currently living in a legal jurisdiction of the UK. However, when abroad and people ask me where I'm from, I just say 'Ireland'. It's simpler than trying to explain the whole geo-political debacle from both sides.
i was in Argentina...definitely better to say youre Irish if youre in Argentina...

you get a much friendlier reception anywhere though if you say youre Irish

Anyway, I'm off to bed. Goodnight, folks!
g'night

Well I'm Welsh first and British second. Though I must add that it was only when I moved to England, from Wales, that I became conscious of my national identity.

As for the whole "h" thing; I don't know much about the Irish situation, but in my experience, Scots pronounce it "aitch" and the English pronounce it "haitch".

Wow, I'm making some sweeping generalisations on this thread!

I'm English. I'm a British MORE than I am European.

To go slightly off topic - I believe we should strengthen our ties with the commonwealth countries as well as - or even instead of - continental ones.

:cool:

does Wales have a national anthem? official or not.

The official anthem is Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau, 'Land of My Fathers'.

The words of the Welsh National Anthem date from January 1856 and were printed two years later, in 1858; until then Wales had no National Anthem.

The words are attributed to Evan James from Pontypridd and his son, James James, inspired by an old melody composed for the harp.

The tune was given prominence during the National Eisteddfod held at Bangor in 1874, and since that date has been considered the song which, more than any other, expresses Welsh national sentiment. It has been adopted as the official anthem by general consensus. In addition, the people Cornwall (an English region) use a varation of the tune as an expression of their Celtic ancestry.

As for myself, I always think of myself as Welsh first and foremost, but often describe myself as a Brit abroad to save lengthy explanations.

England is on the island of Great Britain which is in the United Kingdom. It's all the same to me; still a great nation whatever you call it (unless you call it Birmingham). I can understand people from Scotland, Wales or Nothern Ireland preferring not to be called British, though. But given the globilisation of the world, I think we should be moving closer together, rather than drifting further apart.

I'm half welsh, one eighth scottish and the rest is the usual mess - I mean, the rest is English.

I'm British, through and through. And never, ever European. If anyone pushes for a further definition, I'm a 'Westerner'.

British, and happily English. But not militantly English, in the same way that many peole seem to be aggressively Scottish or Welsh.

im Northern Irish before im British or Irish


Northern Ireland doesnt

yes it does - george cross with an ulster hand

I'm english european, and i only feel english when watching footy. most of what passes for "englishness" is really south-east-english-protestant-ness.

as a northern urban catholic i never see much relevance in cockney knees ups, the queen, village greens, cricket, seafaring prowess, etc.

i feel english in scotland, wales and ireland. i don't really know what would make me feel british.

yes it does - george cross with an ulster hand
that was the officiall flag until 1972, now we dont have one

it was a george cross with a shield with an ulster hand in it, with a crown on top of the sheid :p

whereas the ulster flag is similar, but with gold instead of white on the cross, and no crown

I call myself British. Never English. I don't support the England football team or any other solely English teams. I don't ever fly the cross of St.George only the Union Jack. I don't celebrate St. George's Day.

I am one of the most patriotic people around but I am patriotic for the country known as Britain, a country that is far greater than the sum of its parts. I would go to Scotland or Wales and call it my country because it is British. England didn't make Britain what it is. It helped certainly but where would we have been without the bravery and devoted loyalty of the Scots, the Welsh and the Irish?

I personally think that England, Scotland, Wales and NI should abolish their own individual football teams and create a single, Briitsh football team that everyone can support together.

I personally think that England, Scotland, Wales and NI should abolish their own individual football teams and create a single, Briitsh football team that everyone can support together.
noooo! we would never get any players on it :(

noooo! we would never get any players on it :(
It's not as if you qualify for anything anyway :p </jk>



To go slightly off topic - I believe we should strengthen our ties with the commonwealth countries as well as - or even instead of - continental ones.

When Canada brews decent beer I'll agree with that (not trying to insult Canadian brewers, I just prefer European bear).

I am Irish (Republic) living in Britain (London actually), and I consider myself British.

My Family are Anglo's anyway and are complete loyalists. Oh well... :P

It's not as if you qualify for anything anyway :p </jk>
we might get Healy onto the reserves, but that would be about it....

wait until we play you lot, youll see :p

noooo! we would never get any players on it :(
True, but is that a good or a bad thing?

I call myself British. Never English. I don't support the England football team or any other solely English teams. I don't ever fly the cross of St.George only the Union Jack. I don't celebrate St. George's Day.

I am one of the most patriotic people around but I am patriotic for the country known as Britain, a country that is far greater than the sum of its parts. I would go to Scotland or Wales and call it my country because it is British. England didn't make Britain what it is. It helped certainly but where would we have been without the bravery and devoted loyalty of the Scots, the Welsh and the Irish?

I personally think that England, Scotland, Wales and NI should abolish their own individual football teams and create a single, Briitsh football team that everyone can support together.

i don't celebrate St George's day. Does anyone? The Scots were instrumental to the creation of the empire, but I don't suppose many of them would thank you for calling their country yours.

wait until we play you lot, youll see :p

Meh, I'm one of those annoying people that will take on the nationality of their parents in sport :p (Unless they lose of course ;))

True, but is that a good or a bad thing?
if the supporters plan on rioting they could do with a few northern irish fans to show them how its done ;)

Meh, I'm one of those annoying people that will take on the nationality of their parents in sport :p (Unless they lose of course ;))
where are they from?

i don't celebrate St George's day. Does anyone? The Scots were instrumental to the creation of the empire, but I don't suppose many of them would thank you for calling their country yours.

I used to, (when I was a kid) and the Church's and Scouts Celebrate it.

There's a few St. George's Day Fetes around as well in the more well-to-do areas.

i don't celebrate St George's day. Does anyone? The Scots were instrumental to the creation of the empire, but I don't suppose many of them would thank you for calling their country yours.
I do! It's a great excuse (as if one is needed!) to go down the pub and get plastered! It's also the only time when the English get to be proud of being English without someone complaining.

if the supporters plan on rioting they could do with a few northern irish fans to show them how its done ;)

We Irish have always been trouble some, ROFL.

I do! It's a great excuse (as if one is needed!) to go down the pub and get plastered! It's also the only time when the English get to be proud of being English without someone complaining.

I would agree with the Idea of that. The English do get bashed a lot by everyone... like they did something wrong. *angel face*

where are they from?
Ireland and South Africa (though Dutch South African), they met in SA, I carry a Dutch passport so I feel I have slightly more legitimacy then the majority of the plastic paddies that infest Manchester

Ireland and South Africa (though Dutch South African), they met in SA, I carry a Dutch passport so I feel I have slightly more legitimacy then the majority of the plastic paddies that infest Manchester
well think of it like this, even with England doing shit in rugby, you can still support a good team...Ireland (or South Africa i suppose...)

I do! It's a great excuse (as if one is needed!) to go down the pub and get plastered! It's also the only time when the English get to be proud of being English without someone complaining.

it's changing though. time was only fascists and skinheads and such waved the george cross. now we can have em out for footy. i still don't like going in the pub down the road in a very asian area that has one up all the time, just in case.

well think of it like this, even with England doing shit in rugby, you can still support a good team...Ireland (or South Africa i suppose...)

*makes offended mancunian plastic paddy face*

well think of it like this, even with England doing shit in rugby, you can still support a good team...Ireland (or South Africa i suppose...)

True, but I only do that to piss people off that I don't like.

Although I have less interest in Rugby then I do football.

The funny thing about me switching sides as often I change my clothes is that my dad is a staunch England fan, for any sport (even if England is playing South Africa or the Netherlands). He's more English than I am :D

*makes offended mancunian plastic paddy face*
*mutters under breath about said plastic paddy*

I see only Scots, Welsh, English and Irish. British is like some blanket that the English threw over the rest of the countries they had dominated, as if they were all one people united together. Everything that is British is essentially English, basically an attempt to stamp out the nationalities of Scotland, Wales and Ireland.

I see only Scots, Welsh, English and Irish. British is like some blanket that the English threw over the rest of the countries they had dominated, as if they were all one people united together. Everything that is British is essentially English, basically an attempt to stamp out the nationalities of Scotland, Wales and Ireland.

Although I can see your point, I think you are being too Anglo-centric about. The Scots were quite willing to see themselves as British, and even saw themselves as integral to the maintaining of Empire. The Scottish independence movement is a fairly recent invention, that at times seems to come fairly close to whitewashing history.

By the way, don't take this to meaning I want the Union preserved and that I think the Scottish independence movement has no legitimacy.

I see only Scots, Welsh, English and Irish. British is like some blanket that the English threw over the rest of the countries they had dominated, as if they were all one people united together. Everything that is British is essentially English, basically an attempt to stamp out the nationalities of Scotland, Wales and Ireland.
Thats not really true though is it.
The Royal Family is a descendant of the Scottish Royalty rather the the English. The Welsh and English unified before the Scots, but they weren't exactly forced. Many land owners were Scots, especially in Ireland.
Complaining about the English seems to be the in thing though, so please continue.

Thats not really true though is it.

Neither was most of your post.

The Royal Family is a descendant of the Scottish Royalty rather the the English.

Nope, the Stuarts were kicked out after Charlie the second died. The English and Scotish thrones are all decendants of GERMANS.

The Welsh and English unified before the Scots, but they weren't exactly forced.

The English conquored Wales in a bloody campaign in the 1200s, then built massive castles across the country to subjugate them. Serves the buggers right for being too damned fond of sheep by half. But it is, still, kinda forcing them, isn't it?

Many land owners were Scots, especially in Ireland.

This is true, but more or less irrelevant.

Complaining about the English seems to be the in thing though, so please continue.

No comment. Actually, yeah, there is. I'm English, born and raised, and frankly I see no reason not to rip the piss out of the brutal imperialist history of our country. And also the truly awful group of jokers we dared to refer to as a cricket team.

English, but hesitant to be proud of it as this is all too easily taken for arrogance and ignorance of history.
Born in a suburb of London, but too far out to call myself a Londoner.
Essex native, and that too has negative connotations.

Essex girl = slag?

i don't celebrate St George's day. Does anyone? The Scots were instrumental to the creation of the empire, but I don't suppose many of them would thank you for calling their country yours.

Why? Any Scots man can call England his and I wouldn't mind. I can't stand this wave of decentralisation that is spreading at the moment. Don't you realise that Emgland, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland can achieve so much more together, pulling in the same direction rather than having petty squabbles and pulling in different directions?

I would call anyone born in the British Isles a brother in blood.

Why? Any Scots man can call England his and I wouldn't mind. I can't stand this wave of decentralisation that is spreading at the moment. Don't you realise that Emgland, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland can achieve so much more together, pulling in the same direction rather than having petty squabbles and pulling in different directions?

I would call anyone born in the British Isles a brother in blood.

Which is why of course, Tony Blair will fund rubbish like the millenium dome and the Olympic bid, but refuses to allow a decent road between Newcastle and Edinburgh.

Decentralization is an natural outgrowth of the UK's decades long South East only policy. Indeed, had the offer of a true regional assembly for the north been serious (ie, with true control over revenue and expenditure), you may well have seen the northern part of England go the same way.

I like the situation as it is. We technically live in 'The United Kingdom' but have our own identities within that. It also means we can call ourselves 'British' or 'Welsh/Scottish/English/Northern Irish' when it suits us, i.e. British for the olympic games so we end up with a bigger medal tally, English/Scots etc at Rugby and Football so we can have big rivalries and stuff. Its great.

As a plastic-scot (does that exist?) i tend to support whoever England are playing against, unless its France or Germany or Argentina or the like where i turn fully British and right-wing. Only for ninety minutes at a time though :)

As for the Olympic bid. It is not going to be a British event. If it was going to be a truly British event, they would have chosen a more central location than London.

Why? Any Scots man can call England his and I wouldn't mind. I can't stand this wave of decentralisation that is spreading at the moment. Don't you realise that Emgland, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland can achieve so much more together, pulling in the same direction rather than having petty squabbles and pulling in different directions?

I would call anyone born in the British Isles a brother in blood.

Don't you realise that the world is a place too? I would call any human being anywhere a brother/sister in blood. Who cares where you're born?

Decentralization is an natural outgrowth of the UK's decades long South East only policy. Indeed, had the offer of a true regional assembly for the north been serious (ie, with true control over revenue and expenditure), you may well have seen the northern part of England go the same way.

I hope not, even though I am non to keen on centralisation and find I am willing to call myself a Mancunian but not British or English, it will have no power (that "parish council" quotation springs to mind), cost a fuck load and only serve to create more politicians. Politicians are the opposite of ninjas, there is not a problem in the world that cannot be solved without throwing enough ninjas at it.

Don't you realise that the world is a place too? I would call any human being anywhere a brother/sister in blood. Who cares where you're born?
"I have no country to fight for: my country is the earth, and I am a citizen of the world." --Eugene V. Debs, probably had Socrates in mind.

(Yes, I realise "a witty saying proves nothing," I still like the sentiment though).

"I have no country to fight for: my country is the earth, and I am a citizen of the world." --Eugene V. Debs, probably had Socrates in mind.

(Yes, I realise "a witty saying proves nothing," I still like the sentiment though).

"a witty saying proves nothing" ? can you back that up?

;) i like the sentiment too.

I call myself English, but consider myself British
Don't ask me why, or how that works

"a witty saying proves nothing" ? can you back that up?

Urmm... :confused:

I know, Voltaire said it, and he was very witty so he should know :D