NationStates Jolt Archive


British, Scottish, Welsh, N-Irish, English????

North Island
09-03-2005, 20:29
Okay, here it comes.

My question for the people that come from the island of Britain is do you really think you are one nation/country?
Do you not say you are English, Scottish, (N-?) Irish and Welsh?
Many here have said that you are one country, mostly the English, but you all have your own football teams and other sports teams, your own divisions, military regiments, language, history, culture, your own national flags, people, governments etc.
Personally I allways say that someone is English, Scottish, Irish or Welsh depending on were they are from.
Nadkor
09-03-2005, 20:32
im Northern Irish before im British or Irish

you all have your own....national flags
Northern Ireland doesnt
Saxnot
09-03-2005, 20:32
I suppose so, though I'd always think of myself as English rather than British.
The Act of Union has been around for some time, and it's now taken for granted. Being fair, the culture in all the seperate nations is largely homogenous anyway.
Bodies Without Organs
09-03-2005, 20:32
Do you not say you are English, Scottish, (N-?) Irish and Welsh?

Personally I consider myself as someone who was born and lives in Belfast more than someone who has a nationality - but by default, because I have a British passport, rather than an Irish one (although I could carry one) I guess I have to describe myself as British/from Northern Ireland. This doesn't mean that I am entirely happy with the political setup here, but it remains a fact that I am a product of Northern Irish culture.
Jordaxia
09-03-2005, 20:33
I percieve myself as being British more than I am Scottish.
Bodies Without Organs
09-03-2005, 20:33
Northern Ireland doesnt

We used to though until 1969 or so IIRC.

Edit: 1972.
Nadkor
09-03-2005, 20:34
We used to though until 1969 or so IIRC.
yup, then it, along with the Northern Irish national anthem, got dropped so as not to offend
Gooooold
09-03-2005, 20:34
I myself am Scottish. I call myslef Scottish. I would not usually call myself British. We are not one nation/country. We are a collective (hence the 'United' Kingdom). Unfortuantely, most decisions regarding actions taken by Britain are taken by the English and the Government in Westminster. In Scotland we have the Scottish Parliament, but we still do not have full control of what goes on in our own country, or who we go to war with, etc.
Bodies Without Organs
09-03-2005, 20:35
yup, then it, along with the Northern Irish national anthem, got dropped so as not to offend

National anthem? Correct me if I'm wrong her, but NI never had a national anthem (other than the UK one) and it hasn't been officially dropped, no?
Nadkor
09-03-2005, 20:36
National anthem? Correct me if I'm wrong her, but NI never had a national anthem (other than the UK one) and it hasn't been officially dropped, no?
Londonderry Air apparently
Troon
09-03-2005, 20:37
I'm half-and-half, I suppose. I'd much rather call myself "Scottish" than "British". But I don't know...

What really gets my goat is when people address things (for example) to "Glasgow, England". That's just wrong.

[Edit: Scotland doesn't have an official National Anthem either.]
Yaga-Shura-Field
09-03-2005, 20:39
I would call myself English rather than British
Bodies Without Organs
09-03-2005, 20:40
Londonderry Air apparently

Never officially though - it is/was of the same status as 'Flower Of Scotland'.
Scouserlande
09-03-2005, 20:40
British then Scotish, i like teh empire.
The odd one
09-03-2005, 20:41
does Wales have a national anthem? official or not.
Bobobobonia
09-03-2005, 20:42
I always describe myself as English before British, but that's more to do with us having separate football teams than anything else. But within that I also see myself as a northerner and also European and just plain human.
Nadkor
09-03-2005, 20:42
Never officially though - it is/was of the same status as 'Flower Of Scotland'.
oh ok, Wikipedia lies...
Bodies Without Organs
09-03-2005, 20:44
does Wales have a national anthem? official or not.

Well both 'Land of my Fathers' and 'Cwm Rhonda' are considered unofficial anthems for Wales.
The Arch Wobbly
09-03-2005, 20:44
I call myself British. I'm English.

most decisions regarding actions taken by Britain are taken by the English and the Government in Westminster.

There are Scottish members of the government. There are no English members in the Scottish parliament.


do you really think you are one nation/country?

I believe it is technically the same setup as in the US. We are a Union. We may as well be one country, but for reasons unknown to me people like to kick and scream and say we should all seperate.
Eh-oh
09-03-2005, 20:45
Londonderry

it's pronounced 'Derry'
Bodies Without Organs
09-03-2005, 20:46
it's pronounced 'Derry'

Or alternatively when refering to the city: 'the Maiden City' or even 'Stroke City'. However, as far as the song goes: it is 'Londondery Air' like it or not.
Bodies Without Organs
09-03-2005, 20:48
There are Scottish members of the government. There are no English members in the Scottish parliament.

Ah, the dreaded West Lothian question.
Toujours-Rouge
09-03-2005, 20:48
I'm English. I'm a British as much as i am European.

does Wales have a national anthem? official or not.

Yes, 'Land of my Fathers'
Nadkor
09-03-2005, 20:49
it's pronounced 'Derry'
the song is called "Londonderry Air"

the city and county are "Londonderry", the council is "Derry City Council" (i think), and thats a good enough compromise for me
Peffiko
09-03-2005, 20:51
I don't like it when people use "British" and "English" interchangeably... I'm especially irritated by "British Accent!"

I always describe myself as English and living in England. I only say British living in the UK if I'm filling in a form and those are the only choices.

I know some people who would say they were Cornish before they would say English, though.
Scouserlande
09-03-2005, 20:53
does Wales have a national anthem? official or not.

yes, it goes benhedly mein glagur or somthing, bastards made me learn it in me welsh primary schooling days.
Frangland
09-03-2005, 20:54
Personally I consider myself as someone who was born and lives in Belfast more than someone who has a nationality - but by default, because I have a British passport, rather than an Irish one (although I could carry one) I guess I have to describe myself as British/from Northern Ireland. This doesn't mean that I am entirely happy with the political setup here, but it remains a fact that I am a product of Northern Irish culture.

Are you steeped in the lore of the Hound of Ulster, the great Cuchulain (sp?)?
The Milesian Technate
09-03-2005, 20:55
Actually the county is Derry and the city is Londonderry, though I seem to recall hearing something about a proposal to rename it Derry.
Bodies Without Organs
09-03-2005, 20:55
Are you steeped in the lore of the Hound of Ulster, the great Cuchulain (sp?)?

I wouldn't say steeped, but a passing acquaintance at least.
Bodies Without Organs
09-03-2005, 20:57
Actually the county is Derry and the city is Londonderry, though I seem to recall hearing something about a proposal to rename it Derry.

Nope: remember 'FATLAD'? The county is officially called 'Londonderry', like it or not.
Troon
09-03-2005, 20:58
I don't like it when people use "British" and "English" interchangeably... I'm especially irritated by "British Accent!"

I can't stand that either! To all Americans (apologies for any generalizations) you're "British accents" are actually "English accents". Scottish accents are different, as are Welsh and Irish.
Saxnot
09-03-2005, 21:01
I don't like it when people use "British" and "English" interchangeably... I'm especially irritated by "British Accent!"
Heh. English accent is almost as bad.
Bodies Without Organs
09-03-2005, 21:01
Britain isn't the name of the island is it? I know SO much about my home country...

Great Britain is the name of the landmass comprised of Scotland, Wales, England and outlying small islands.

This message has been deleted by Silly Sharks. Reason: It was kinda pointless...

Anyhow.
Kellarly
09-03-2005, 21:01
I'm British before I am English. Sure I was born in England, but I have family from all over including Eire...kinda like being a mongrel thanks! :D
Enlightened Humanity
09-03-2005, 21:04
I'm British

Mildly pissed at the whole Scottish pariliament thing - cheers to them for tuition fees!

But British. I'm never 'English' unless someone asks where in the UK. Then I'm really a southerner.
Wild Orchid
09-03-2005, 21:06
I would class myself as European first...English next....I don't actually like being called a Brit...
Audioslavia
09-03-2005, 21:07
i don't have much choice but to say British. Mainly scottish on my parents side and follow the Scottish football side but i've lived in england all my life and speak with an 'english accent' (for non-americans read that as 'northern accent' or possibly 'lincolnshire accent') and so me saying i'm scottish would sound weird.
The Milesian Technate
09-03-2005, 21:08
Are you sure the county is also so-named? Certainly for all official purposes I've seen here in the South the county is Derry, roadsigns, govt. documents, GAA team etc. etc. and even encyclodedias give both. The city site (http://www.derrycity.gov.uk/) isn't much help on the matter, however, referring to it as Derry City (for obvious reasons).
Jonothana
09-03-2005, 21:08
I do think of myself primaraly as Scottish. I never say I am Brittish before saying I am a Scot.
Trilateral Commission
09-03-2005, 21:08
Hey I have a question for the British folks. What do immigrants to the UK think of themselves as? British? English/Scottish/Welsh? [Nationality of original country]? Or something with a dash in the middle, like British-Chinese or English-Chinese, etc?
Alreda
09-03-2005, 21:08
My mother is English and my Father is Scottish. Therefore i have always regarded myself as being British. I have a British Passport. Interationally we are know as the United Kingdom. We Have one army, as well as one monarchy. Also when you go abroad you go to a British embassy not a Welsh or English one.
Nadkor
09-03-2005, 21:09
Are you sure the county is also so-named? Certainly for all official purposes I've seen here in the South the county is Derry, roadsigns, govt. documents, GAA team etc. etc. and even encyclodedias give both. The city site (http://www.derrycity.gov.uk/) isn't much help on the matter, however, referring to it as Derry City (for obvious reasons).
its County Londonderry. the official city name is Londonderry.
The odd one
09-03-2005, 21:10
Are you sure the county is also so-named? Certainly for all official purposes I've seen here in the South the county is Derry, roadsigns, govt. documents, GAA team etc. etc. and even encyclodedias give both. The city site (http://www.derrycity.gov.uk/) isn't much help on the matter, however, referring to it as Derry City (for obvious reasons).
The original (and therefore proper in my opinion) name was Derry; from the irish Doire meaning oak. the"London" part was added by the British.
Nadkor
09-03-2005, 21:11
The original (and therefore proper in my opinion) name was Derry; from the irish Doire meaning oak. the"London" part was added by the British.
Doire/Derry was flattened and a new town built...the new town was called Londonderry

as is my understanding
Brigate
09-03-2005, 21:12
does Wales have a national anthem? official or not.
Yeah, it goes something like: "Wales Wales Uber Alles" ba ba doop bee ba doop da diddly doo
Alreda
09-03-2005, 21:14
The most annoying thing is when people say you have a Scottish accent. What is a Scottish accent? In England if someone has a London accent you don't say they have an English accent. You say they have a London accent. People in Edinburgh speak different to someone in Inverness.
The odd one
09-03-2005, 21:15
Doire/Derry was flattened and a new town built...the new town was called Londonderry

as is my understanding
that seems like a convenient simplification. it's in the same place, the same people are there and it's the largest town in the same county, but let's change the name? it also doesn't account for your claim that the county is Londonderry, they couldn't possibly have flattened the whole county!!
Enlightened Humanity
09-03-2005, 21:17
The most annoying thing is when people say you have a Scottish accent. What is a Scottish accent? In England if someone has a London accent you don't say they have an English accent. You say they have a London accent. People in Edinburgh speak different to someone in Inverness.

The same as northern accent, southern accent, cocky accent

Don't forget, London has a bigger population than the whole of Scotland
The Milesian Technate
09-03-2005, 21:18
Does it matter overly? It's Derry City Council and City of Derry Airport and we in Ireland will continue calling it Derry City and County Derry.
Nadkor
09-03-2005, 21:19
that seems like a convenient simplification. it's in the same place, the same people are there and it's the largest town in the same county, but let's change the name? it also doesn't account for your claim that the county is Londonderry, they couldn't possibly have flattened the whole county!!
you never know ;)

the county was originally County Coleraine, then it became County Londonderry....Londonderry being the name of the biggest settlement

its not like the county was County Derry and they changed it, the county has never been County Derry
Nadkor
09-03-2005, 21:19
Does it matter overly? It's Derry City Council and City of Derry Airport and we in Ireland will continue calling it Derry City and County Derry.
because then youre not using the proper name, you dont see me calling the Republic the Free State because thats what it used to be called
Peffiko
09-03-2005, 21:21
Yeah, it goes something like: "Wales Wales Uber Alles" ba ba doop bee ba doop da diddly doo

When I was younger my uncles taught me to sing "Wales, Wales, land of the frogs and the snails."
Gullible 5 year old that I was, I sang it to my Welsh primary school teacher and didn't understand why she looked so offended.
The Milesian Technate
09-03-2005, 21:22
Well the Republic isn't the correct name to call us so you might want to get that right.

The majority of city inhabitants call it Derry and that's good enough for me but we can call it whatever we want, it doesn't matter!
Alreda
09-03-2005, 21:23
To enlightened Humanity i did not mean any offence. I myself live in London.
Enlightened Humanity
09-03-2005, 21:24
To enlightened Humanity i did not mean any offence. I myself live in London.

No offence taken.

How long you lived in London?
Bodies Without Organs
09-03-2005, 21:25
that seems like a convenient simplification. it's in the same place, the same people are there and it's the largest town in the same county, but let's change the name? it also doesn't account for your claim that the county is Londonderry, they couldn't possibly have flattened the whole county!!

Entertainingly enough the Ordnance Survey site of Ireland gives 'Derry' as the name of the county, whereas the Ordance Survey site of Northern Ireland gives 'Londonderry'... proof that the debate continues at the highest international level.
Nadkor
09-03-2005, 21:26
Well the Republic isn't the correct name to call us so you might want to get that right.
Ireland

better?

still, the point stands, i dont call it the Irish Free State because it used to be called that
The majority of inhabitants call it Derry and that's good enough for me but we can call it whatever we want, it doesn't matter!
i would imagine the majority of inhabitents of the county dont care if you call it Derry or Londonderry, but you should at least make an effort...call the city Derry if you want because the council is Derry City Council etc, but the county has never been County Derry
Nadkor
09-03-2005, 21:28
Entertainingly enough the Ordnance Survey site of Ireland gives 'Derry' as the name of the county, whereas the Ordance Survey site of Northern Ireland gives 'Londonderry'... proof that the debate continues at the highest international level.
i dont care what people call the city, but i do think the county should be called County Londonderry...simply because its never been County Derry so theres no basis for it

if youre going to call it something different you might as well call it County Coleraine, thats where the admin for it is done
The Milesian Technate
09-03-2005, 21:28
As I said, it doesn't matter what it's called really, does it? Some Irish people will call it Derry (city and county) and others Londonderry (city and county). We all know what's meant by it so where is the problem?
Bodies Without Organs
09-03-2005, 21:32
i dont care what people call the city, but i do think the county should be called County Londonderry...simply because its never been County Derry so theres no basis for it

Unless you recognise the right of the claim to sovereignty over all the 32 counties which used to be in the Irish constitution... in which case it has been County Derry ever since the southerners adopted that name for it.
Nadkor
09-03-2005, 21:34
Unless you recognise the right of the claim to sovereignty over all the 32 counties which used to be in the Irish constitution... in which case it has been County Derry ever since the southerners adopted that name for it.
which i dont ;)
Anarchic Conceptions
09-03-2005, 21:34
I don't feel particuarly English or British, or the nationality of my parents.

If pushed then Mancunian.
Bodies Without Organs
09-03-2005, 21:37
Ah, the joys of living in a society which still has shibboleths.
Sweetfloss
09-03-2005, 21:38
I've always thought of myself as British, rather than English. Although actually, I can't say I label myself as either very often. Except when I'm filling out forms, then it's always "White - British"...
The Milesian Technate
09-03-2005, 21:39
Ah one of the actual Northerns must tell us! A friend of my mom's (from Belfast, me thinks) said you could tell what side of the Nationalist/Unionist divide someone was from by how they pronounced words, how easy and accurate is this?
Nadkor
09-03-2005, 21:41
Ah one of the actual Northerns must tell us! A friend of my mom's (from Belfast, me thinks) said you could tell what side of the Nationalist/Unionist divide someone was from by how they pronounced words, how easy and accurate is this?
you can supposedly tell by how they pronounce the letter "h" but not full words really...

supposedly catholics say "haitch" and protestants say "aitch", but i know quite a few protestants who say "haitch" and vice versa...
Bodies Without Organs
09-03-2005, 21:41
Ah one of the actual Northerns must tell us! A friend of my mom's (from Belfast, me thinks) said you could tell what side of the Nationalist/Unionist divide someone was from by how they pronounced words, how easy and accurate is this?

'H'.

To elucidate: those brought up in the 'Catholic' culture will say 'haitch' while those brought up in the 'Protestant' culture will say 'aitch'. As to how reliable it is: pretty good, but it should be borne in mind that an individual's particular political affiliations and beliefs are not wholy determined by their upbringing, and so there are those raised 'Protestant' who are actually Nationalist/Republicans and there are those raised 'Catholic' who are actually Loyalist/Unionist.
The Milesian Technate
09-03-2005, 21:43
And is that the only one that 'gives it away', as such?
Nadkor
09-03-2005, 21:44
And is that the only one that 'gives it away', as such?
only one i know of

not that it should be trusted

another one is how they pronounce their favourite Scottish premier league football team. if they pronounce it "rangers" theyre usually protestant, if they pronounce it "celtic" theyre usually catholic.

meh
Anarchic Conceptions
09-03-2005, 21:45
Ah, the joys of living in a society which still has shibboleths.
They are fun ;)
Bodies Without Organs
09-03-2005, 21:45
And is that the only one that 'gives it away', as such?

Its the main one: other clues come from the slightly different accents which exist in the city and their corresponding religious/cultural make-ups. Of course, this is ignoring the obvious fact that a fenian's eyes are too close together.
Nadkor
09-03-2005, 21:46
Its the main one: other clues come from the slightly different accents which exist in the city and their corresponding religious/cultural make-ups. Of course, this is ignoring the obvious fact that a fenian's eyes are too close together.
hehe :)

this country is so fucking stupid

i have no idea what 'shibboleths' means though...


edit: see the Portadown News the other week? Clark Gable...
Fidhealleisg
09-03-2005, 21:48
ok i just started reading this so sorry if im refering to things in the beginning, but...
"Being fair, the culture in all the seperate nations is largely homogenous anyway." -saxnot
---my dad is Glasweigian and my mom is american, but i have been to scotland many, many times and the culture is extremely different between the different countries in the United Kingdom. (especially from a musical viewpoint, and thats a big part of the culture)
"[Edit: Scotland doesn't have an official National Anthem either.]" -(i dont know who said this, but it was posted on troon's post)
---Scotland has an "unofficial" national anthem, Flowers of Scotland, you hear it at the scotland football games
---and (no offense to any english reading this) generally scottish people dont want to be associated with the english (mostly jokingly) (i know a really good english joke, tell me if anyone wants to hear it)

(Fidhealleisg-fiddlefish in scottish Gaelic)
Bodies Without Organs
09-03-2005, 21:50
hehe :)

this country is so fucking stupid

i have no idea what 'shibboleths' means though...

Clicky. (http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~kemmer/Words/shibboleth.html)


edit: see the Portadown News the other week? Clark Gable...

Indeed.

I'm thinking of a couple of other linguistic divisions which exist here - there's the Protestant term 'the mainland' as used to describe the island of Great Britain, and also the distinction between 'Ardoyne' and 'the Ardoyne'. Not forgetting the aforementioned Derry/Londonderry malarky.
Whinging Trancers
09-03-2005, 21:50
I'm British.

My father is Scottish 'ish, Scottish father with a cockney mother, wheras my mother is Irish (from the republic) and I was born in England, but only lived here for 2 months before moving to Cyprus and then spent the next 14 years living in various other countries around europe with other British kids and families. Our friends were British people from the length and breadth of the British isles and natives of whatever country we were in at the time. I learnt to love and respect them all as equals and have very little time for national stereotyping or nationalism because of this.
Socialist Tigers
09-03-2005, 21:53
I am definitly British first, English second.
The Milesian Technate
09-03-2005, 21:54
'Ardoyne' and 'the Ardoyne'

Which is which?
Nadkor
09-03-2005, 21:54
Clicky. (http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~kemmer/Words/shibboleth.html)

ah ok, like i said...stupid place
Indeed.

I'm thinking of a couple of other linguistic divisions which exist here - there's the Protestant term 'the mainland' as used to describe the island of Great Britain, and also the distinction between 'Ardoyne' and 'the Ardoyne'. Not forgetting the aforementioned Derry/Londonderry malarky.
well, theres the name for Northern Ireland itself...the 6 Counties, Northern Ireland etc
Bodies Without Organs
09-03-2005, 21:56
well, theres the name for Northern Ireland itself...the 6 Counties, Northern Ireland etc

Nevermind the continual blurring and redefinition of the term 'Ulster' depending upon who is using it and in what context (ie. six or nine counties).
Nadkor
09-03-2005, 21:58
Nevermind the continual blurring and redefinition of the term 'Ulster' depending upon who is using it and in what context (ie. six or nine counties).
*sigh*...id forgotten about that one...
Anarchic Conceptions
09-03-2005, 21:59
Clicky. (http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~kemmer/Words/shibboleth.html)

Interesting back story, never realised where the word came from.

Though how do you pronounce it? I use the Gileadites' way (with the 'sh')
Bodies Without Organs
09-03-2005, 22:02
Though how do you pronounce it? I use the Gileadites' way (with the 'sh')

I too appear to be a Gileadite. A Protestant Gileadite, mind you...

...old Northern Ireland joke: 'Yes, but are you a Protestant Jew or a Catholic Jew?'
Anarchic Conceptions
09-03-2005, 22:02
Nevermind the continual blurring and redefinition of the term 'Ulster' depending upon who is using it and in what context (ie. six or nine counties).
My guess that SF would call it the 9 counties, and DUP et al would call it the 6 counties.

Right?
Bodies Without Organs
09-03-2005, 22:03
My guess that SF would call it the 9 counties, and DUP et al would call it the 6 counties.

Right?

Pretty much. We also have another term - 'the Province' which I guess is a Protestant/British way of attempting not to give offense but still managing to put their foot in it.
Audioslavia
09-03-2005, 22:06
Of course, this is ignoring the obvious fact that a fenian's eyes are too close together.

Wheras you cant see the ***'s eyes for the fire of hedes that burns beneath :)
Nadkor
09-03-2005, 22:09
Pretty much. We also have another term - 'the Province' which I guess is a Protestant/British way of attempting not to give offense but still managing to put their foot in it.
i thought the only people who called it "the Province" were the BBC...
Bodies Without Organs
09-03-2005, 22:10
Wheras you cant see the ***'s eyes for the fire of hedes that burns beneath :)

No, the fact is that us huns are too busy running about kicking the ball with the correct (right) foot, and so you never get a chance to meet our steely gaze.
Bodies Without Organs
09-03-2005, 22:11
i thought the only people who called it "the Province" were the BBC...


Protestant/British

My case is rested.
Nadkor
09-03-2005, 22:12
My case is rested.
you make a good point
Human OccupiedLandfill
10-03-2005, 00:51
I see myself as Scottish. I call myself Scottish or a UK citizen (for particular legal reasons. I'm not British. I'm DEFINITELY not English!
I get annoyed with some of the British/English muckups that people make, like showing the Union Flag as a symbol of England.
And I'm not Scotch. That's a drink.
Anarchic Conceptions
10-03-2005, 01:13
No, the fact is that us huns are too busy running about kicking the ball with the correct (right) foot, and so you never get a chance to meet our steely gaze.
:D

It just occured to me I have no idea where the term 'left footer' comes from.
Nimzonia
10-03-2005, 01:54
My question for the people that come from the island of Britain is do you really think you are one nation/country?

Yes, it's called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

The Kingdom of England, the Kingdom of Scotland, the Principality of Wales, and that nuggetty bit of Ireland we got to keep, are obsolete as political entities in their own right.
Europaland
10-03-2005, 01:59
I never think of myself as British and I believe in Scottish independence from the UK.
L-rouge
10-03-2005, 02:03
I'm British first, English second.
It pisses me off though when people refer to England when they mean Britain (or the UK) and that the English football team plays "God Save the Queen" before matches. Surely that should only be played if it was a British team, so they should play "Land of Hope and Glory".
Traegen
10-03-2005, 02:06
After living in Scotland for a year with very patriotic Scots (from which I decend) I can say for them definetly Scottish first. I even say I went to school in Scotland not Britain.
Kazcaper
10-03-2005, 02:10
Northern Ireland doesnt
Is this not our national flag? (http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/lds/meridian/2003/images/ulster.gif) Seriously, if not, what is it - just some symbol of unionism? My knowledge of Northern Irish history is shite.

another one is how they pronounce their favourite Scottish premier league football team. if they pronounce it "rangers" theyre usually protestant, if they pronounce it "celtic" theyre usually catholic.LOL ;)

I can't really think of any other linguistic divides other than the 'h' one, but as Nadkor says, that can be pretty unreliable sometimes. Mind you, if someone called Malachy pronounces it 'haitch' and someone called Billy pronounces it 'aitch', you can be pretty sure what 'side' each is on.

In relation to the original post, I consider myself British in general, because whether I like it or not (and I don't mind it, though I wouldn't mind a united Ireland either), I am currently living in a legal jurisdiction of the UK. However, when abroad and people ask me where I'm from, I just say 'Ireland'. It's simpler than trying to explain the whole geo-political debacle from both sides.

Anyway, I'm off to bed. Goodnight, folks!
Nadkor
10-03-2005, 02:14
Is this not our national flag? (http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/lds/meridian/2003/images/ulster.gif) Seriously, if not, what is it - just some symbol of unionism? My knowledge of Northern Irish history is shite.

'twas until 1972, then they decided we didnt deserve a flag, or would just argue over it or something...the latter is pretty much right actually...

LOL ;)

I can't really think of any other linguistic divides other than the 'h' one, but as Nadkor says, that can be pretty unreliable sometimes. Mind you, if someone called Malachy pronounces it 'haitch' and someone called Billy pronounces it 'aitch', you can be pretty sure what 'side' each is on.
well, that would certainly leave a few clues lol

In relation to the original post, I consider myself British in general, because whether I like it or not (and I don't mind it, though I wouldn't mind a united Ireland either), I am currently living in a legal jurisdiction of the UK. However, when abroad and people ask me where I'm from, I just say 'Ireland'. It's simpler than trying to explain the whole geo-political debacle from both sides.
i was in Argentina...definitely better to say youre Irish if youre in Argentina...

you get a much friendlier reception anywhere though if you say youre Irish

Anyway, I'm off to bed. Goodnight, folks!
g'night
Scipii
10-03-2005, 02:21
Well I'm Welsh first and British second. Though I must add that it was only when I moved to England, from Wales, that I became conscious of my national identity.
Troon
10-03-2005, 11:38
As for the whole "h" thing; I don't know much about the Irish situation, but in my experience, Scots pronounce it "aitch" and the English pronounce it "haitch".

Wow, I'm making some sweeping generalisations on this thread!
Anger-land
10-03-2005, 11:51
I'm English. I'm a British MORE than I am European.

To go slightly off topic - I believe we should strengthen our ties with the commonwealth countries as well as - or even instead of - continental ones.

:cool:
Tyrell Corporation
10-03-2005, 14:34
does Wales have a national anthem? official or not.

The official anthem is Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau, 'Land of My Fathers'.

The words of the Welsh National Anthem date from January 1856 and were printed two years later, in 1858; until then Wales had no National Anthem.

The words are attributed to Evan James from Pontypridd and his son, James James, inspired by an old melody composed for the harp.

The tune was given prominence during the National Eisteddfod held at Bangor in 1874, and since that date has been considered the song which, more than any other, expresses Welsh national sentiment. It has been adopted as the official anthem by general consensus. In addition, the people Cornwall (an English region) use a varation of the tune as an expression of their Celtic ancestry.

As for myself, I always think of myself as Welsh first and foremost, but often describe myself as a Brit abroad to save lengthy explanations.
Mykonians
10-03-2005, 14:47
England is on the island of Great Britain which is in the United Kingdom. It's all the same to me; still a great nation whatever you call it (unless you call it Birmingham). I can understand people from Scotland, Wales or Nothern Ireland preferring not to be called British, though. But given the globilisation of the world, I think we should be moving closer together, rather than drifting further apart.
The Abomination
10-03-2005, 14:49
I'm half welsh, one eighth scottish and the rest is the usual mess - I mean, the rest is English.

I'm British, through and through. And never, ever European. If anyone pushes for a further definition, I'm a 'Westerner'.
Cambridge Major
10-03-2005, 14:59
British, and happily English. But not militantly English, in the same way that many peole seem to be aggressively Scottish or Welsh.
Independent Homesteads
10-03-2005, 15:07
im Northern Irish before im British or Irish


Northern Ireland doesnt

yes it does - george cross with an ulster hand
Independent Homesteads
10-03-2005, 15:12
I'm english european, and i only feel english when watching footy. most of what passes for "englishness" is really south-east-english-protestant-ness.

as a northern urban catholic i never see much relevance in cockney knees ups, the queen, village greens, cricket, seafaring prowess, etc.

i feel english in scotland, wales and ireland. i don't really know what would make me feel british.
Nadkor
10-03-2005, 16:08
yes it does - george cross with an ulster hand
that was the officiall flag until 1972, now we dont have one

it was a george cross with a shield with an ulster hand in it, with a crown on top of the sheid :p

whereas the ulster flag is similar, but with gold instead of white on the cross, and no crown
New British Glory
10-03-2005, 17:12
I call myself British. Never English. I don't support the England football team or any other solely English teams. I don't ever fly the cross of St.George only the Union Jack. I don't celebrate St. George's Day.

I am one of the most patriotic people around but I am patriotic for the country known as Britain, a country that is far greater than the sum of its parts. I would go to Scotland or Wales and call it my country because it is British. England didn't make Britain what it is. It helped certainly but where would we have been without the bravery and devoted loyalty of the Scots, the Welsh and the Irish?

I personally think that England, Scotland, Wales and NI should abolish their own individual football teams and create a single, Briitsh football team that everyone can support together.
Nadkor
10-03-2005, 17:13
I personally think that England, Scotland, Wales and NI should abolish their own individual football teams and create a single, Briitsh football team that everyone can support together.
noooo! we would never get any players on it :(
Anarchic Conceptions
10-03-2005, 17:18
noooo! we would never get any players on it :(
It's not as if you qualify for anything anyway :p </jk>



To go slightly off topic - I believe we should strengthen our ties with the commonwealth countries as well as - or even instead of - continental ones.

When Canada brews decent beer I'll agree with that (not trying to insult Canadian brewers, I just prefer European bear).
The Merchant Guilds
10-03-2005, 17:18
I am Irish (Republic) living in Britain (London actually), and I consider myself British.

My Family are Anglo's anyway and are complete loyalists. Oh well... :P
Nadkor
10-03-2005, 17:19
It's not as if you qualify for anything anyway :p </jk>
we might get Healy onto the reserves, but that would be about it....

wait until we play you lot, youll see :p
L-rouge
10-03-2005, 17:20
noooo! we would never get any players on it :(
True, but is that a good or a bad thing?
Independent Homesteads
10-03-2005, 17:20
I call myself British. Never English. I don't support the England football team or any other solely English teams. I don't ever fly the cross of St.George only the Union Jack. I don't celebrate St. George's Day.

I am one of the most patriotic people around but I am patriotic for the country known as Britain, a country that is far greater than the sum of its parts. I would go to Scotland or Wales and call it my country because it is British. England didn't make Britain what it is. It helped certainly but where would we have been without the bravery and devoted loyalty of the Scots, the Welsh and the Irish?

I personally think that England, Scotland, Wales and NI should abolish their own individual football teams and create a single, Briitsh football team that everyone can support together.

i don't celebrate St George's day. Does anyone? The Scots were instrumental to the creation of the empire, but I don't suppose many of them would thank you for calling their country yours.
Anarchic Conceptions
10-03-2005, 17:21
wait until we play you lot, youll see :p

Meh, I'm one of those annoying people that will take on the nationality of their parents in sport :p (Unless they lose of course ;))
Nadkor
10-03-2005, 17:21
True, but is that a good or a bad thing?
if the supporters plan on rioting they could do with a few northern irish fans to show them how its done ;)
Nadkor
10-03-2005, 17:22
Meh, I'm one of those annoying people that will take on the nationality of their parents in sport :p (Unless they lose of course ;))
where are they from?
The Merchant Guilds
10-03-2005, 17:22
i don't celebrate St George's day. Does anyone? The Scots were instrumental to the creation of the empire, but I don't suppose many of them would thank you for calling their country yours.

I used to, (when I was a kid) and the Church's and Scouts Celebrate it.

There's a few St. George's Day Fetes around as well in the more well-to-do areas.
L-rouge
10-03-2005, 17:23
i don't celebrate St George's day. Does anyone? The Scots were instrumental to the creation of the empire, but I don't suppose many of them would thank you for calling their country yours.
I do! It's a great excuse (as if one is needed!) to go down the pub and get plastered! It's also the only time when the English get to be proud of being English without someone complaining.
The Merchant Guilds
10-03-2005, 17:23
if the supporters plan on rioting they could do with a few northern irish fans to show them how its done ;)

We Irish have always been trouble some, ROFL.
The Merchant Guilds
10-03-2005, 17:24
I do! It's a great excuse (as if one is needed!) to go down the pub and get plastered! It's also the only time when the English get to be proud of being English without someone complaining.

I would agree with the Idea of that. The English do get bashed a lot by everyone... like they did something wrong. *angel face*
Anarchic Conceptions
10-03-2005, 17:25
where are they from?
Ireland and South Africa (though Dutch South African), they met in SA, I carry a Dutch passport so I feel I have slightly more legitimacy then the majority of the plastic paddies that infest Manchester
Nadkor
10-03-2005, 17:27
Ireland and South Africa (though Dutch South African), they met in SA, I carry a Dutch passport so I feel I have slightly more legitimacy then the majority of the plastic paddies that infest Manchester
well think of it like this, even with England doing shit in rugby, you can still support a good team...Ireland (or South Africa i suppose...)
Independent Homesteads
10-03-2005, 17:27
I do! It's a great excuse (as if one is needed!) to go down the pub and get plastered! It's also the only time when the English get to be proud of being English without someone complaining.

it's changing though. time was only fascists and skinheads and such waved the george cross. now we can have em out for footy. i still don't like going in the pub down the road in a very asian area that has one up all the time, just in case.
Independent Homesteads
10-03-2005, 17:28
well think of it like this, even with England doing shit in rugby, you can still support a good team...Ireland (or South Africa i suppose...)

*makes offended mancunian plastic paddy face*
Anarchic Conceptions
10-03-2005, 17:32
well think of it like this, even with England doing shit in rugby, you can still support a good team...Ireland (or South Africa i suppose...)

True, but I only do that to piss people off that I don't like.

Although I have less interest in Rugby then I do football.

The funny thing about me switching sides as often I change my clothes is that my dad is a staunch England fan, for any sport (even if England is playing South Africa or the Netherlands). He's more English than I am :D
Anarchic Conceptions
10-03-2005, 17:33
*makes offended mancunian plastic paddy face*
*mutters under breath about said plastic paddy*
Hrstrovokia
10-03-2005, 17:34
I see only Scots, Welsh, English and Irish. British is like some blanket that the English threw over the rest of the countries they had dominated, as if they were all one people united together. Everything that is British is essentially English, basically an attempt to stamp out the nationalities of Scotland, Wales and Ireland.
Anarchic Conceptions
10-03-2005, 17:38
I see only Scots, Welsh, English and Irish. British is like some blanket that the English threw over the rest of the countries they had dominated, as if they were all one people united together. Everything that is British is essentially English, basically an attempt to stamp out the nationalities of Scotland, Wales and Ireland.

Although I can see your point, I think you are being too Anglo-centric about. The Scots were quite willing to see themselves as British, and even saw themselves as integral to the maintaining of Empire. The Scottish independence movement is a fairly recent invention, that at times seems to come fairly close to whitewashing history.

By the way, don't take this to meaning I want the Union preserved and that I think the Scottish independence movement has no legitimacy.
L-rouge
10-03-2005, 17:41
I see only Scots, Welsh, English and Irish. British is like some blanket that the English threw over the rest of the countries they had dominated, as if they were all one people united together. Everything that is British is essentially English, basically an attempt to stamp out the nationalities of Scotland, Wales and Ireland.
Thats not really true though is it.
The Royal Family is a descendant of the Scottish Royalty rather the the English. The Welsh and English unified before the Scots, but they weren't exactly forced. Many land owners were Scots, especially in Ireland.
Complaining about the English seems to be the in thing though, so please continue.
Nasopotomia
10-03-2005, 17:54
Thats not really true though is it.

Neither was most of your post.

The Royal Family is a descendant of the Scottish Royalty rather the the English.

Nope, the Stuarts were kicked out after Charlie the second died. The English and Scotish thrones are all decendants of GERMANS.

The Welsh and English unified before the Scots, but they weren't exactly forced.

The English conquored Wales in a bloody campaign in the 1200s, then built massive castles across the country to subjugate them. Serves the buggers right for being too damned fond of sheep by half. But it is, still, kinda forcing them, isn't it?

Many land owners were Scots, especially in Ireland.

This is true, but more or less irrelevant.

Complaining about the English seems to be the in thing though, so please continue.

No comment. Actually, yeah, there is. I'm English, born and raised, and frankly I see no reason not to rip the piss out of the brutal imperialist history of our country. And also the truly awful group of jokers we dared to refer to as a cricket team.
Disenchanted
10-03-2005, 17:59
English, but hesitant to be proud of it as this is all too easily taken for arrogance and ignorance of history.
Born in a suburb of London, but too far out to call myself a Londoner.
Essex native, and that too has negative connotations.

Essex girl = slag?
New British Glory
11-03-2005, 00:12
i don't celebrate St George's day. Does anyone? The Scots were instrumental to the creation of the empire, but I don't suppose many of them would thank you for calling their country yours.

Why? Any Scots man can call England his and I wouldn't mind. I can't stand this wave of decentralisation that is spreading at the moment. Don't you realise that Emgland, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland can achieve so much more together, pulling in the same direction rather than having petty squabbles and pulling in different directions?

I would call anyone born in the British Isles a brother in blood.
Gen William J Donovan
11-03-2005, 00:23
Why? Any Scots man can call England his and I wouldn't mind. I can't stand this wave of decentralisation that is spreading at the moment. Don't you realise that Emgland, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland can achieve so much more together, pulling in the same direction rather than having petty squabbles and pulling in different directions?

I would call anyone born in the British Isles a brother in blood.

Which is why of course, Tony Blair will fund rubbish like the millenium dome and the Olympic bid, but refuses to allow a decent road between Newcastle and Edinburgh.

Decentralization is an natural outgrowth of the UK's decades long South East only policy. Indeed, had the offer of a true regional assembly for the north been serious (ie, with true control over revenue and expenditure), you may well have seen the northern part of England go the same way.
Audioslavia
11-03-2005, 01:56
I like the situation as it is. We technically live in 'The United Kingdom' but have our own identities within that. It also means we can call ourselves 'British' or 'Welsh/Scottish/English/Northern Irish' when it suits us, i.e. British for the olympic games so we end up with a bigger medal tally, English/Scots etc at Rugby and Football so we can have big rivalries and stuff. Its great.

As a plastic-scot (does that exist?) i tend to support whoever England are playing against, unless its France or Germany or Argentina or the like where i turn fully British and right-wing. Only for ninety minutes at a time though :)
Gooooold
11-03-2005, 15:12
As for the Olympic bid. It is not going to be a British event. If it was going to be a truly British event, they would have chosen a more central location than London.
Independent Homesteads
11-03-2005, 15:16
Why? Any Scots man can call England his and I wouldn't mind. I can't stand this wave of decentralisation that is spreading at the moment. Don't you realise that Emgland, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland can achieve so much more together, pulling in the same direction rather than having petty squabbles and pulling in different directions?

I would call anyone born in the British Isles a brother in blood.

Don't you realise that the world is a place too? I would call any human being anywhere a brother/sister in blood. Who cares where you're born?
Anarchic Conceptions
11-03-2005, 17:13
Decentralization is an natural outgrowth of the UK's decades long South East only policy. Indeed, had the offer of a true regional assembly for the north been serious (ie, with true control over revenue and expenditure), you may well have seen the northern part of England go the same way.

I hope not, even though I am non to keen on centralisation and find I am willing to call myself a Mancunian but not British or English, it will have no power (that "parish council" quotation springs to mind), cost a fuck load and only serve to create more politicians. Politicians are the opposite of ninjas, there is not a problem in the world that cannot be solved without throwing enough ninjas at it.
Anarchic Conceptions
11-03-2005, 17:16
Don't you realise that the world is a place too? I would call any human being anywhere a brother/sister in blood. Who cares where you're born?
"I have no country to fight for: my country is the earth, and I am a citizen of the world." --Eugene V. Debs, probably had Socrates in mind.

(Yes, I realise "a witty saying proves nothing," I still like the sentiment though).
Independent Homesteads
11-03-2005, 17:21
"I have no country to fight for: my country is the earth, and I am a citizen of the world." --Eugene V. Debs, probably had Socrates in mind.

(Yes, I realise "a witty saying proves nothing," I still like the sentiment though).

"a witty saying proves nothing" ? can you back that up?

;) i like the sentiment too.
Palmertopia
11-03-2005, 17:22
I call myself English, but consider myself British
Don't ask me why, or how that works
Anarchic Conceptions
11-03-2005, 17:24
"a witty saying proves nothing" ? can you back that up?

Urmm... :confused:

I know, Voltaire said it, and he was very witty so he should know :D