NationStates Jolt Archive

The big debate (the one that recurs the most, and the one that about half of threads morph into) is *Does America Suck?*. And on the non-suck side, people say "why are you making america look bad?" a lot, and they complain about zeppistan posting news stories that make america look bad, and so on and so forth. So my question is - what can you say to make america look good?

I learned a lot about US gun laws and constitutional rights and so on in my guns and us constitution thread. Teach me more - what are the good things about the US?

I can get a good steak here.

I remember going to a "steak house" in Germany. 250g was considered a big steak. That, and it was a tasteless lump.

A decent aged steak - a good porterhouse - is generally not available in Europe. And, in the US, I prefer the Capital Grille for my steaks.

Morton's isn't bad - but it isn't the best.

A decent aged steak - a good porterhouse - is generally not available in Europe. And, in the US, I prefer the Capital Grille for my steaks.

I don't even know what a porterhouse is. So you wouldn't get one in my house. But i don't know if my butcher knows.

Is that it then, the best thing about the US is old beef?

The US is different from other countries. It has it's own culture. I'm proud of that culture. I like it. :)

The US has culture? *cackle*
Imported, but not it's own.

I don't even know what a porterhouse is. So you wouldn't get one in my house. But i don't know if my butcher knows.

A prterhouse is a T-bone steak in which the filet hasn;t been cut out. Typically it is about 2 lbs. Very very tasty. I've had a couple good steaks in canada, but nothing is like a steak from ruth's chris. We have th eoriginal one about 15 minutes from my house.

Another good thing about america is the large amount of new construction areas. There are always new subdivisions and neighborhoods going up, and therefore there is alot of space for new building opportunities. I also like the large choice of cars (although the EPA regulates on cars from outside the US, so i have to get a kit car if i want certain exotics) I also like the people in general. I have been in several other countries, and as soon as they find out i am american, they won't talk to me anymore, and i didn;t even talk about anything controversial. I have never been ignored in the states when i am just tryin to make conversation.

Ein Deutscher']The US has culture? *cackle*
Imported, but not it's own.

As a matter of fact, we do have our own culture. SOmeone direct me to somehting comprable of the Southwest during the 1800s. What about Native American Culture? If you want to say all we have is imported culture, then the only culture australia has is from convicts.

and if you are not going to add anything intelligent, leave please.

Originally posted by Ein Deutscher
The US has culture? *cackle*
Imported, but not it's own.

No. It was imported then it was molded into our own.

As a matter of fact, we do have our own culture. SOmeone direct me to somehting comprable of the Southwest during the 1800s. What about Native American Culture? If you want to say all we have is imported culture, then the only culture australia has is from convicts.
Native American culture is not US culture.

Is that it then, the best thing about the US is old beef?
Nope.

The best thing is the Second Amendment and the First Amendment.

Heck, even Canadians don't get a separation of church and state - and here at least we can raise the issue.

People in Southern Germany get a cross in the classroom whether they like it or not.

And despite the Patriot Act, I feel I have more freedom of speech, at least on paper and in legal precedence, than anyone in the UK (where you don't seem to have that guaranteed).

It's easier to start a business here. It's easier to have social mobility here.

We have our problems - but at least we discuss them and we work on them.

I can carry a gun, legally, in my jurisdiction, without being a police officer. And my jurisdiction is proven safer because of it. But for those who don't like guns, and are afraid of them, they can live in an equally affluent area (albeit with 70 percent more violent crime) where guns are heavily restricted.

So not all of America is the same - which is great. If this was a European country, the whole place would be homogenized.

I think that's why Europeans get upset as well - they think that somehow, everyone in the country is just like whoever the President is. Well, the breadth of ethnic difference in the US is far greater than any single European country can boast.

Ein Deutscher']Native American culture is not US culture.

How is it not. Then there is no type of celtic culture in britain? It is just sa much US culture as anything else.

No. It was imported then it was molded into our own.
The US is a mix of various cultures, predominantly European ones. The US does not have it's own distinct culture since 200 years is by far not enough to build any meaningful culture. The only thing the US could consider it's own culture is Mc Donald's and Hollywood.

To clarify the "culture mix" a bit - there are various ethnicities and foreign cultures existing alongside each other, i.e. Chinatown as one example. They have not been integrated and the original cultures continue to exist in the homelands of the various immigrants to serve as "lead cultures".

How is it not. Then there is no type of celtic culture in britain? It is just sa much US culture as anything else.
The native Americans were killed in genocide to make room for the white settlers. I'd not consider native American culture to be part of the US culture. It is a separate culture that has been supressed by the US culture, that's all.

If you want to say all we have is imported culture, then the only culture australia has is from convicts.

I have to disagree on that. Australia is not made up entirely of the descendants of convicts. That's a sick prejudice! :eek:

Originally posted by Ein Deutscher
The US is a mix of various cultures, predominantly European ones. The US does not have it's own distinct culture since 200 years is by far not enough to build any meaningful culture. The only thing the US could consider it's own culture is Mc Donald's and Hollywood.

That's what culture is dumbass. It's influenced by other forces. :rolleyes:
Besides MacDonald's is great. I don't eat it, but it gave the world a fast burger.

Ein Deutscher']The native Americans were killed in genocide to make room for the white settlers. I'd not consider native American culture to be part of the US culture. It is a separate culture that has been supressed by the US culture, that's all.

have you been to the southwestern United States? Do you even know what you are talking about. There is plenty of Native American Culture. Not just on reservations. They are just as much part of the US as anyone else. more so than most.

have you been to the southwestern United States? Do you even know what you are talking about. There is plenty of Native American Culture. Not just on reservations. They are just as much part of the US as anyone else. more so than most.
Native American culture is as much part of the US culture as Jewish culture is part of the German culture.

I have to disagree on that. Australia is not made up entirely of the descendants of convicts. That's a sick prejudice! :eek:

I know that, but i was responding to another poster who is as ignorant as he is stupid.

And for those of you who do not se a difference between ignorance and stupidity, stupidity is not knowing. Ignorance is not knowing and having no desire to change.

Ein Deutscher']Native American culture is as much part of the US culture as Jewish culture is part of the German culture.

Alright, then we all have middle eastern culture predominately, sice that is the crade of civilization.

I can get a good steak here.Also cheap Gas.

Originally posted by Ein Deutscher
The native Americans were killed in genocide to make room for the white settlers. I'd not consider native American culture to be part of the US culture. It is a separate culture that has been supressed by the US culture, that's all.

No, that's not true. Most Native Americans don't live on reservations. I live in Wisconsin so you're going to lose your argument. Native Americans still have pow wows all the time. They have traditional ceremonies. They still make and pass on authentic clothing. They make things that ancestors did and sell them.

Ein Deutscher']The US is a mix of various cultures, predominantly European ones. The US does not have it's own distinct culture since 200 years is by far not enough to build any meaningful culture. The only thing the US could consider it's own culture is Mc Donald's and Hollywood.

To clarify the "culture mix" a bit - there are various ethnicities and foreign cultures existing alongside each other, i.e. Chinatown as one example. They have not been integrated and the original cultures continue to exist in the homelands of the various immigrants to serve as "lead cultures".

Rubbish, you know nothing about the US whatsoever.

same in michigan, and upstate new york, and alaska, and new mexico, and california, and arizona, and texas, and louisiana, and florida, and nevada. I've been in every one of the 50 states, and most of which i have seen gatherings of the native culture practising their beliefs and the beliefs of their forefathers. (except in massachusetts, all the white people pushed them out long ago.)

I'll repeat myself.
The best thing is the Second Amendment and the First Amendment.

Heck, even Canadians don't get a separation of church and state - and here at least we can raise the issue.

People in Southern Germany get a cross in the classroom whether they like it or not.

And despite the Patriot Act, I feel I have more freedom of speech, at least on paper and in legal precedence, than anyone in the UK (where you don't seem to have that guaranteed).

It's easier to start a business here. It's easier to have social mobility here.

We have our problems - but at least we discuss them and we work on them.

I can carry a gun, legally, in my jurisdiction, without being a police officer. And my jurisdiction is proven safer because of it. But for those who don't like guns, and are afraid of them, they can live in an equally affluent area (albeit with 70 percent more violent crime) where guns are heavily restricted.

So not all of America is the same - which is great. If this was a European country, the whole place would be homogenized.

I think that's why Europeans get upset as well - they think that somehow, everyone in the country is just like whoever the President is. Well, the breadth of ethnic difference in the US is far greater than any single European country can boast.
__________________

Ein Deutscher , you truly do not get culture. Culture is defined by influence. Therefore, what you said would imply that Australia doesn't have their own culture. Ireland and Scotland doesn't have their own culture. Canada doesn't have their own culture. I could on...

I'm not american, but I respect america for giving me Foamy (http://www.illwillpress.com/vault.html) .

Well, they have, well, low taxes. This of course shows in poor basic welfare in some places.

It's a bit like Russia nowadays: There is the über-rich and there is the über-poor. Not like in the ages of socialism, everyone is not too rich but not too poor either.

And yes, they have a good army, nevermind the fact that all their weapons suck.

Ein Deutscher , you truly do not get culture. Culture is defined by influence. Therefore, what you said would imply that Australia doesn't have their own culture. Ireland and Scotland doesn't have their own culture. Canada doesn't have their own culture. I could on...

Germany and other European countries don't have any own culture, either. At least not anymore (Note: i know this is a bit exaggerated, but the tendency is going into that direction).

Well guys. The question was what can you say to make America great.
So far we have large steaks (no my personal choice of healthy food but fine if you like tht kind of thing) and cheap gas (petrol I assume you mean).
Oh and culture. Well we've all got that so it doesn't count.
The rest of the posts seem to be just slagging off the rest of the world (Europe in particular).
You can raise youselves up by pulling us down.
So....what is so great.
Can't be your democracy 'cos we've all got that too and ours is equal to anything in the world.
Someone mentioned freedom of speak but seemed to speak from a slightly uneducated stand point. I have equal freedom of speech to you and I'm in the UK.
Can't be your education system 'cos you constantly perform lower than Europe and Asia.
Foreign policy???
Murder rate???
I have nothing against the US or its people but I'm still not convinced it's great. I'll go with OK until shown otherwise :)

I forgot to ask.
Where else other than the US have you lived Whispering Legs?
You seem to have a lot of knowledge of European rights. Which countries have you lived in and for how long?
Privately or in a US airbase?

I have equal freedom of speech to you and I'm in the UK.


Can you show me in your Constitution where you are guaranteed the freedom of speech?

Originally posted by Wisjersey
Germany and other European countries don't have any own culture, either. At least not anymore (Note: i know this is a bit exaggerated, but the tendency is going into that direction).

Well, I was going to say that but it wasn't going to be the first one. You are absolutely right. European cultures have been pawning off their culture on each other since the beginning. I also am guessing Ein Deutscher you live in Germany. If this is so, I suggest you focus on preserving your own culture. You speak English. You do not have to, but European countries learn it because the US is ultra-business, ultra-capitalism. WATCH OUT! The McDonalds are be putting up in Europe quite fast. :rolleyes:

Hmm, yeah, but can't a thing still be good even if there are many good things like that?

I'm pretty good in shooting, and even if many are better, it doesn't make me worse.

And if any damned "We are the world police USA and we save the world"-guy happens to pop up here, I tell that person to think of, say, "liberating" Iraq. In what part did you actually liberate anything or anyone? When bombing civilian targets? When capturing and helding civilians as prisoners? Or maybe you mean torturing prisoners of war?

[QUOTE=Oksana]The McDonalds are be putting up in Europe quite fast.[QUOTE]
At least people in Europe understand grammer.

EDIT: bastard computer...

Germany and other European countries don't have any own culture, either. At least not anymore (Note: i know this is a bit exaggerated, but the tendency is going into that direction).
That's right. We're having trouble preserving our own cultures in the swamp of American "culture" that's being thrown at us left and right.

Ein Deutscher']The US is a mix of various cultures, predominantly European ones. The US does not have it's own distinct culture since 200 years is by far not enough to build any meaningful culture. The only thing the US could consider it's own culture is Mc Donald's and Hollywood.

To clarify the "culture mix" a bit - there are various ethnicities and foreign cultures existing alongside each other, i.e. Chinatown as one example. They have not been integrated and the original cultures continue to exist in the homelands of the various immigrants to serve as "lead cultures".

Then I guess Britain doesn't have its own culture, either. They just imported it from the Germans and the Celts. Japan has no culture, its all imported from China. All culture orginates from somewhere, so by your logic, no culture exsits period, except for that of the first human.

In what part did you actually liberate anything or anyone?

I'm sure the Kurds feel liberated. Want to go to their hometown and talk that way about the Americans? I bet they wouldn't be happy with you.

When bombing civilian targets?

The US does not deliberately bomb civilian targets. And we do care about deaths incidental to attacking military targets. Otherwise, we wouldn't be using JDAM - we would just drop them anywhere we like.

When capturing and helding civilians as prisoners?

Not a matter of official policy. And you'll note that the people who did the torturing have been court martialed
Or maybe you mean torturing prisoners of war?

If you're referring to the inmates of Guantanamo, they, according to Convention I, Article 2, of the Geneva Conventions, are not entitled to Geneva protections.

The big debate (the one that recurs the most, and the one that about half of threads morph into) is *Does America Suck?*. And on the non-suck side, people say "why are you making america look bad?" a lot, and they complain about zeppistan posting news stories that make america look bad, and so on and so forth. So my question is - what can you say to make america look good?

I learned a lot about US gun laws and constitutional rights and so on in my guns and us constitution thread. Teach me more - what are the good things about the US?There is actually very little that is bad about the US, with the single glaring exception of the current administration of our federal government.

Lop off Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Gonzalez, and most of the cabinet, take about 1/3 of the senate and house out to the trash - and, voila - you have the best country on the planet.

We just happen to be, at the moment, being run by a bunch of assholes.

Well, I was going to say that but it wasn't going to be the first one. You are absolutely right. European cultures have been pawning off their culture on each other since the beginning. I also am guessing Ein Deutscher you live in Germany. If this is so, I suggest you focus on preserving your own culture. You speak English. You do not have to, but European countries learn it because the US is ultra-business, ultra-capitalism. WATCH OUT! The McDonalds are be putting up in Europe quite fast. :rolleyes:
I learned English in school - together with French. English happens to be the current lingua franca. I doubt I'll see that change, but to be able to communicate with Americans or Britons (who don't bother learning other languages i.e. German), I learned English. It's quite practical being able to communicate with almost everyone at least on a basic level. I prefer German in Germany though and I hate that our language is being diluted with anglicisms more and more.

Originally posted by Silly Sharks
[QUOTE=Oksana]The McDonalds are be putting up in Europe quite fast.[QUOTE]
At least people in Europe understand grammer.

Yeah, well I don't need to. Remember, Europe and Asia head the US in education. ;)

Then I guess Britain doesn't have its own culture, either. They just imported it from the Germans and the Celts. Japan has no culture, its all imported from China. All culture orginates from somewhere, so by your logic, no culture exsits period, except for that of the first human.
Cultures that have over the centuries melted into one can be considered lead cultures for the respective people. However, in the US there is no melting happening. Instead, there are "parallel societies" preserving their original culture and honouring their traditional heritage throughout the generations.

Originally posted by Ein Deutscher
I learned English in school - together with French. English happens to be the current lingua franca. I doubt I'll see that change, but to be able to communicate with Americans or Britons (who don't bother learning other languages i.e. German), I learned English. It's quite practical being able to communicate with almost everyone at least on a basic level. I prefer German in Germany though and I hate that our language is being diluted with anglicisms more and more.

Well, then I suggest you encourage Germans to not learn English. Since most Germans know English, German is being taken out of schools.

Can you show me in your Constitution where you are guaranteed the freedom of speech?
The great thing about not having a constitution is that common law rules. I can do what I have always been able to do. Constitutions are not all they are cracked up to be. That's what ammendments do after all isn't it. They alter the terms of the constitution. If a judge removes my right to free speak I can appeal to several levels of law to have the ruling overturned. It's worked as a system for several hundred years. I can't say it's better than your system but it works just as well.

Nope.

The best thing is the Second Amendment and the First Amendment.

Heck, even Canadians don't get a separation of church and state - and here at least we can raise the issue.

People in Southern Germany get a cross in the classroom whether they like it or not.

And despite the Patriot Act, I feel I have more freedom of speech, at least on paper and in legal precedence, than anyone in the UK (where you don't seem to have that guaranteed).

It's easier to start a business here. It's easier to have social mobility here.

We have our problems - but at least we discuss them and we work on them.

I can carry a gun, legally, in my jurisdiction, without being a police officer. And my jurisdiction is proven safer because of it. But for those who don't like guns, and are afraid of them, they can live in an equally affluent area (albeit with 70 percent more violent crime) where guns are heavily restricted.

So not all of America is the same - which is great. If this was a European country, the whole place would be homogenized.

I think that's why Europeans get upset as well - they think that somehow, everyone in the country is just like whoever the President is. Well, the breadth of ethnic difference in the US is far greater than any single European country can boast.
1)Freedom of speech is an unwritten law here in the UK
2) 11,000 people died from guns in the US, 150 in the UK although giving our ploice guns would be a good idea
3) to whoever said that america isthe only place to get a good steak you're talking crap. British steaks are just as juicy, tender and delicious but don't come in such disgustingly large, fat pumping sizes

Ein Deutscher']I learned English in school - together with French. English happens to be the current lingua franca.

Heh. Interesting point: In 20-30 years, Chinese will become the lingua franca, followed by Arabic and Spanish.

Well, then I suggest you encourage Germans to not learn English. Since most Germans know English, German is being taken out of schools.
German is not being taken out of schools. Whoever told you that nonsense needs to get a brain. However our language is being transformed into a mixture of German and English and new rules were made by the politicians (hah!) which further confuses the people. We have a few non-profit organisations working to preserve the original language, but it seems to be difficult. I see a lot of English labels in everyday life here in Germany, which are totally unnecessary.

I'm probably thinking you haven't been to America Ein Deutscher. I'm right, aren't I?

Ein Deutscher']I learned English in school - together with French. English happens to be the current lingua franca. I doubt I'll see that change, but to be able to communicate with Americans or Britons (who don't bother learning other languages i.e. German), I learned English. It's quite practical being able to communicate with almost everyone at least on a basic level. I prefer German in Germany though and I hate that our language is being diluted with anglicisms more and more.
Your'e just angry because (English) English is the greatest language on earth while most German sounds threatening and French is a long-winded excuse for a language which is only used out of complete obstinance
P.S Hope you're looking forward to 8th May

Originally posted by Ein Deutscher
German is not being taken out of schools. Whoever told you that nonsense needs to get a brain. However our language is being transformed into a mixture of German and English and new rules were made by the politicians (hah!) which further confuses the people. We have a few non-profit organisations working to preserve the original language, but it seems to be difficult. I see a lot of English labels in everyday life here in Germany, which are totally unnecessary.

German IS being taken out of American schools. That is why I never learned it.

I'm probably thinking you haven't been to America Ein Deutscher. I'm right, aren't I?
I have not been. What I can learn through TV, the Internet and from my mother+sister when they were in the US for a month, is enough. You forget that the internet is dominated by Americans, so it's not too difficult figuring out the rest for myself.

Your'e just angry because (English) English is the greatest language on earth while most German sounds threatening and French is a long-winded excuse for a language which is only used out of complete obstinance
P.S Hope you're looking forward to 8th May
English decended from German and other languages, but I'd not call it "the best" language. In fact, I don't think there is a best language, since all languages are suitable for what they exist for. However, I prefer German in Germany.

Heh. Interesting point: In 20-30 years, Chinese will become the lingua franca, followed by Arabic and Spanish.
Doubt that.
Chinese is too narrow a language to become dominant
Arabic nations will be buggereed as soon as thier oil runs out
Spanish takes to damm long to say anything
English will be dominant as it is so convenient, brisk and to the point. US dominace will keep it in its place and the US isn't going to leave for a ;long long time
All hail America : defenders of our freedom and safety since 1941!

Doubt that.
Chinese is too narrow a language to become dominant
Arabic nations will be buggereed as soon as thier oil runs out
Spanish takes to damm long to say anything
English will be dominant as it is so convenient, brisk and to the point. US dominace will keep it in its place and the US isn't going to leave for a ;long long time
All hail America : defenders of our freedom and safety since 1941!
Jingoistic nonsense. :rolleyes:

Ein Deutscher']English decended from German and other languages, but I'd not call it "the best" language. In fact, I don't think there is a best language, since all languages are suitable for what they exist for. However, I prefer German in Germany.
It is not decended from German but a mix of germanic languages such as Angle, Saxon and Jute as well as Norse, Celtic and some aspects of Latin. German wasn't even a proper country till the 19th century so ha!
English rules!

Ein Deutscher']Jingoistic nonsense. :rolleyes:
Care to explain that fully?

Wow, I didn't know the thread was about Chinese and German.

Originally posted by Ein Deutscher
I have not been. What I can learn through TV, the Internet and from my mother+sister when they were in the US for a month, is enough. You forget that the internet is dominated by Americans, so it's not too difficult figuring out the rest for myself.

Well, I have a British guy sleeping on my couch, and he can tell you that being here and hearing about the US on the internet are 2 totally different things. You may know the facts but you lack the knowledge of the amount of influence Europeans have on this country. The US is ultra-capitalist. We don't have castles and pretty buildings, we have cheap housing. We do not wear wooden shoes, we wear adidas. We have our own dialect, with our own slang and spellings.

Wow, I didn't know the thread was about Chinese and German.
Aren't we supposed to be talking about the world's greatest military e.g. the UK

Care to explain that fully?
Morgallis you are being an arse.
Stop wasting our time with this flame bait.

There is actually very little that is bad about the US, with the single glaring exception of the current administration of our federal government.

Lop off Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Gonzalez, and most of the cabinet, take about 1/3 of the senate and house out to the trash - and, voila - you have the best country on the planet.

We just happen to be, at the moment, being run by a bunch of assholes.
You just don't like conservatives.

Conservatives are whore-bags. (a beautiful example of American slang :) )

Morgallis you are being an arse.
Stop wasting our time with this flame bait.
Its not flame bait! I'm making a totally relevant point about the use of US and Uk military power being used on the world stage to pomote safety and freedom! Stop being such a killjoy

England has far fewer firearm related deaths than the US, but you beat us in rape, burglary, and theft.
http://www.gunsandcrime.org/highs.html

Currently, the US unemployment rate is five and a half percent. While in France one in ten people are out of work, and it's near 13% in Germany. The US continues to grow prosperous with its citizens while a lot of the world has a stagnant economy. YOu more likely to be successful and prosperous in the US than in Europe right now.

English will be dominant as it is so convenient, brisk and to the point. US dominace will keep it in its place and the US isn't going to leave for a ;long long time
All hail America : defenders of our freedom and safety since 1941!

To your information: It's a rule of fist in history that the rule of anybody will end at some point and they will have to take a seat in the second row.
A century ago, the nations of Europe ruled the globe, but they lost it 'cause they were so dumb and engaged in two world wars (Somehow, i tend to point at the Germans now :D).

And i fear that the US are about to start a similar thing, thanks to Mr. Bush. :(

Well, I have a British guy sleeping on my couch, and he can tell you that being here and hearing about the US on the internet are 2 totally different things. You may know the facts but you lack the knowledge of the amount of influence Europeans have on this country. The US is ultra-capitalist. We don't have castles and pretty buildings, we have cheap housing. We do not wear wooden shoes, we wear adidas. We have our own dialect, with our own slang and spellings.
Wooden shoes are a tradition from the Netherlands. Dunno if you knew that ;) Adidas however is from Germany. Our castles and pretty buildings are part of our old cultures. Literally all countries that are older than the US, have castles and old cultures to be proud of.

To your information: It's a rule of fist in history that the rule of anybody will end at some point and they will have to take a seat in the second row.
A century ago, the nations of Europe ruled the globe, but they lost it 'cause they were so dumb and engaged in two world wars (Somehow, i tend to point at the Germans now :D).

And i fear that the US are about to start a similar thing, thanks to Mr. Bush. :(
The US are too young to be able to learn from history. Additionally, they did not directly suffer from 2 world wars, which wreaked havok and disaster throughout Europe. The people here have learned that war is not the way to change the world - it only causes suffering. The US did not have this experience itself yet, aside from their civil war, which was before the existence of the current nation and thus does not really count as a "traumatic" experience.

Can you show me in your Constitution where you are guaranteed the freedom of speech?

Can't show you anything in our constitution because it is implicit rather than explicit. So we don't have arguments about what some blokes meant 250 years ago by "arms" or something.

We have 700 years of legal precedent to guarantee our freedom of speech, and since nobody in america can agree what the constitution means, and since the US govt can pass laws that people think are unconstitutional, your constitutional guarantees don't appear to mean much.

About a month ago, the UK government passed a law allowing the imprisonment without trial of foreign nationals under certain circumstances. The law was judged unconstitutional by the UK high court and has been repealed.

To your information: It's a rule of fist in history that the rule of anybody will end at some point and they will have to take a seat in the second row.
A century ago, the nations of Europe ruled the globe, but they lost it 'cause they were so dumb and engaged in two world wars (Somehow, i tend to point at the Germans now :D).

And i fear that the US are about to start a similar thing, thanks to Mr. Bush. :(
Quite frankly its all the French's fault. secondly I doubt anyone could call teh Uk a second rate nation, considering that we can turn them into radioactive plate glass with ouur 120 nukes

So apparently none of you can come up with anything good about America except steak, "cullture" and freedom of speech. That's weak.

Separation of church and state is a good one, any more like that?

Well, I suggest you get on board, dear. The world is working towards monoculture and if you keep wallowing abut your loss of culture, you'll be very sad. I on the other hand, will continue to preserve my culture. That should be easy since "I don't have one". ;)

Quite frankly its all the French's fault. secondly I doubt anyone could call teh Uk a second rate nation, considering that we can turn them into radioactive plate glass with ouur 120 nukes
More jingoistic nonsense. :rolleyes:

Ein Deutscher']The US are too young to be able to learn from history. Additionally, they did not directly suffer from 2 world wars, which wreaked havok and disaster throughout Europe. The people here have learned that war is not the way to change the world - it only causes suffering. The US did not have this experience itself yet, aside from their civil wa,r which was before the existence of the current nation and thus does not really count as a "traumatic" experience.
Speak for yourself. Some Europeans have not being blinded by this bullshit and realise that conflict is the only way to solve things. the rest of Europe should follow the UK and get off its arse and solve some of the world's problem countries by force, not namby-pamby negotiations that go nowhere

Heh. Interesting point: In 20-30 years, Chinese will become the lingua franca, followed by Arabic and Spanish.

Chinese will not become the lingua franca, because in spite of the certainty of chinese economic supremacy, people won't learn it. And the Chinese are still learning English at a great rate.

Chinese already is "an" international language, but it has as much chance of becoming "the" international language as Hindi does.

So apparently none of you can come up with anything good about America except steak, "cullture" and freedom of speech. That's weak.

Separation of church and state is a good one, any more like that?
America doesn't have a "lead" culture. That was one of the downsides to it.

Speak for yourself. Some Europeans have not being blinded by this bullshit and realise that conflict is the only way to solve things. the rest of Europe should follow the UK and get off its arse and solve some of the world's problem countries by force, not namby-pamby negotiations that go nowhere
How old are you, if I may ask? You sound pretty young as far as I can tell.

Ein Deutscher']More jingoistic nonsense. :rolleyes:
The spread of the two world wars are all France's fault. If they hadn't been so stupid it would have been a minor skirmish, forgotten by all.
2) Your just jealous because your country isn't able to invoke the ultimate authority to protect itself and enforce its will

So apparently none of you can come up with anything good about America except steak, "cullture" and freedom of speech. That's weak.

Separation of church and state is a good one, any more like that?

why is the rigid separation of state and church good?

where in the US constitution is there such a requirement? Congress is not allowed to to is to establish a state religion but also not allowed to infringe upon peoples right to be religious. Liberals have taken the establisment clause and turned it into meaning something that was never intended. Now, together with their communist friends of the ACLU, they wage war on all things Christianity (while ignoring the religion of death and destruction, namely Islam).

What is good about America? The greatest democracy, the greatest military, the greatest science and research and development. The best form of government, etc......

I forgot to ask.
Where else other than the US have you lived Whispering Legs?
You seem to have a lot of knowledge of European rights. Which countries have you lived in and for how long?
Privately or in a US airbase?
Barrow in Furness 1 year
Germany 3 years
Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Israel, Morocco, Algeria, Egypt about three months each
Invaded Iraq (first Gulf War)
While in Germany visited a lot of France, Spain, Austria, and Poland.

Have traveled on business to Finland, Singapore, and Shanghai.

Some privately, some on military duty with the Army.

Ein Deutscher']How old are you, if I may ask? You sound pretty young as far as I can tell.
What does it matter? Your agist concerns do not add to the authority of your arguments.

the rest of Europe should follow the UK and get off its arse and solve some of the world's problem countries by force, not namby-pamby negotiations that go nowhere

That's sick! :eek:

Do you want World War III ?!?

why is the rigid separation of state and church good?

where in the US constitution is there such a requirement? Congress is not allowed to to is to establish a state religion but also not allowed to infringe upon peoples right to be religious. Liberals have taken the establisment clause and turned it into meaning something that was never intended. Now, together with their communist friends of the ACLU, they wage war on all things Christianity (while ignoring the religion of death and destruction, namely Islam).

What is good about America? The greatest democracy, the greatest military, the greatest science and research and development. The best form of government, etc......
Stop right there!
It's not the best army and not the biggest. All it is is the best funded.

why is the rigid separation of state and church good?

where in the US constitution is there such a requirement? Congress is not allowed to to is to establish a state religion but also not allowed to infringe upon peoples right to be religious. Liberals have taken the establisment clause and turned it into meaning something that was never intended. Now, together with their communist friends of the ACLU, they wage war on all things Christianity (while ignoring the religion of death and destruction, namely Islam).

What is good about America? The greatest democracy, the greatest military, the greatest science and research and development. The best form of government, etc......

That list at the end is all opinions, and ones I don't agree with.

Separation of church and state is how to prevent the religious wars of the middle ages and dogmatic indoctrination of children. Let them find out for themselves, don't drum it into them at school.

1)Freedom of speech is an unwritten law here in the UK
2) 11,000 people died from guns in the US, 150 in the UK although giving our ploice guns would be a good idea
3) to whoever said that america isthe only place to get a good steak you're talking crap. British steaks are just as juicy, tender and delicious but don't come in such disgustingly large, fat pumping sizes
THe thing about gun crime in the US, people who want guns get them, even if they are resticted from getting them. If i *really* wanted to i could have a fully automatic weapon in 72 hours. it's not difficult. and when you ban guns, honest people don;t have them. Granted, alot of gun deaths are accidental and are results of gun ignorance, children getting ahold of guns, etc. but the vast majority is due to violent and drug crimes.

And a good streak is a filet, which typically doesn't come larger than 8 oz. and are relitively lean.

Well we keep going back to steak and military might.
Germany is a fine nation (I even try to speak German when I'm there on business)
France is another good place. (I speak bad french there)
I quite like Spain (where I count to ten a lot and say thank you )
All I can see about the US is it's OK. Not great Just OK like eveywhere else we've mentioned.
I haven't heard anything here to convince me otherwise.

That's sick! :eek:

Do you want World War III ?!?
How is it sick? Better to be the nation that lauches the decisive pre-emptive strike than to be the one that gets nuked by those nations that it tried to be nice to and spent its entire time talking to but got nowhere.
Pre-emptive wars prevent greater destruction and dfeath for the future.

How is it sick? Better to be the nation that lauches the decisive pre-emptive strike than to be the one that gets nuked by those nations that it tried to be nice to and spent its entire time talking to but got nowhere.
Pre-emptive wars prevent greater destruction and dfeath for the future.

Yeah right, i suggest we immediatly go ahead and nuke the whole Middle East to bedrock. Is that what you want? :headbang:

How is it sick? Better to be the nation that lauches the decisive pre-emptive strike than to be the one that gets nuked by those nations that it tried to be nice to and spent its entire time talking to but got nowhere.
Pre-emptive wars prevent greater destruction and dfeath for the future.
No such thing as a winner in a nuke war. You launch - we spot the trajectory. We launch. They launch. Everyone launches.
Nuclear winter.
Nukes are a big stick you can never hit anyone with. pointless waste of money.

THe thing about gun crime in the US, people who want guns get them, even if they are resticted from getting them. If i *really* wanted to i could have a fully automatic weapon in 72 hours. it's not difficult. and when you ban guns, honest people don;t have them. Granted, alot of gun deaths are accidental and are results of gun ignorance, children getting ahold of guns, etc. but the vast majority is due to violent and drug crimes.

And a good streak is a filet, which typically doesn't come larger than 8 oz. and are relitively lean.
I've heard about these massive american steaks and seen one on TV. they exist don;'t try to lie to me
Th Uk guns laws have been buggered up recently but the way they used to be was that all guns were heavily liciensed. handguns were only licensed to gun club memebers who helped crack down on any illegal guns. this kept illegal guns doen but allowed those witha reason to own them to have one. P>s There is no need whatsoever for members of the public to mhave anything other than pistol, rifle or shotgun

Yeah right, i suggest we immediatly go ahead and nuke the whole Middle East to bedrock. Is that what you want? :headbang:
Only as a last resort. Conventional war should be fine

I learned a lot about US gun laws and constitutional rights and so on in my guns and us constitution thread. Teach me more - what are the good things about the US?

Some of the good things about the US.

The government may be a huge bloated Burosaurus Rex, but the American people can, will and have done something about. What we don't like in the US, we change. If we don't like what an elected official does, we'll vote his ass out of office.

Taxes are some of the lowest in the free world. We bitch about the price of gas, but compared to other countries its not to bad. Our prices for gas, for example, are about $2.00 per gallon right now. Over the river in Canada, it ranges from $2.60 to $3.20, all in the same city.

Health care. Of course we have some bleak spots and I won't even suggest money isn't a factor, but if your life is in danger, law is on the side of the poor. We may not have govenrment funded chiroprators, but you are more likely to live in a hospital here. I have relatives in two countries with socialized health systems. The difference between them? In social health, they will, tell you they did everything they could, stand and mourn with your family after you have passed on. Here, they will give you a whopping big bill, tell you they were happy to save your life, and next patient, please. And while I'm sure altruism is a big part of being a doctor, you don't study for 12 long years just to make an average living. That is why doctors from around the world come to the US; if you are good, you make mad cash.

Here, we can bitch and complain as loud if not louder than foreigners about our sucky government. No riot police to clear the streets at the merest sign of protestors.

I work virtually elbow to elbow with black, hispanic, arab, jew, greek, italian, irish, pagan, aetheist, gay, women, fundamnentalist, short, fat, tall, skinny, ulgy and beautiful. No problems, no worries.

Bits of a foriegn culture we like, we adopt. But we export our culture to more parts of the world than any other group of cultures. I'm a Scot by ancestry, first generation American. I have a great deal of difficulty finding Irn Bru, Scottlands 'other' national drink, but I would bet big money I could walk into any restaraunt on the planet and order a Coke. They might say 'we only have Pepsi'. And of course there is Hollywood, with it's multi-million dollar orgasms spraying all over the fertile fields of the planet. Holllywood is American culture, and it's all over the world.

I've been spending a lot of time over in Canada, Windsor to be specific. I notice the little things. The government controlled monopoly of beer sales. The 15% sales tax on good as opposed to Michigan 6%. The Canadian Postal Service, along with its sister the GPO of Britain, suck. If I send a letter from here in Michigan halfway across the country to California, three days is a long time. I've heard Canadians say that stuff in the same privince may take twice that time and comprable ditances would be closer to ten days.

Gimme time; I'll think of more stuff...

In the US any viewpoint can be aired without fear of government retribution. Whether you are a communist or a neo-nazi you can speak your mind. In some parts of Europe (which is a great place, don't get me wrong) speaking neo-nazi ideas can get you arrested.

In the US we have every culture and people immaginable.

The US has the most influential culture. Almost everywhere in the world US music, movies, books, clothing styles, etc. can be found. Some people lable this cultural imperialism, but nobody's forcing anyone to participate. People buy into our culture because they like it.

The spread of the two world wars are all France's fault. If they hadn't been so stupid it would have been a minor skirmish, forgotten by all.
2) Your just jealous because your country isn't able to invoke the ultimate authority to protect itself and enforce its will
I'm not jealous about anything. The US won't be able to project it's will anymore in the future after Afghanistan and Iraq. Just watch out how the international political stage will react to the next war the US want to start. It'll be amusing to watch.

No such thing as a winner in a nuke war. You launch - we spot the trajectory. We launch. They launch. Everyone launches.
Nuclear winter.
Nukes are a big stick you can never hit anyone with. pointless waste of money.
Not so. That just means that youv don't ever lauch against a country that can nuke you back. I can pre emptively nuke North Korea without any problems. I might even get away with nuking China as they only have 40 missiles and not all in working order

Only as a last resort. Conventional war should be fine

Yeah, it worked before.

Er OK it didn't, but sooner or later it will.

What does it matter? Your agist concerns do not add to the authority of your arguments.
It matters because then I could write off your rambling as inexperience. If you are however an adult, then I'd seriously question your level of intelligence.

England has far fewer firearm related deaths than the US, but you beat us in rape, burglary, and theft.
http://www.gunsandcrime.org/highs.html

Currently, the US unemployment rate is five and a half percent. While in France one in ten people are out of work, and it's near 13% in Germany. The US continues to grow prosperous with its citizens while a lot of the world has a stagnant economy. YOu more likely to be successful and prosperous in the US than in Europe right now.

using statistics that are 9 years old? Current events indeed

Ein Deutscher']The US has culture? *cackle*
Imported, but not it's own.


Sure we do - Jazz, blues, country western and hip hop are American. Hemingway, Thoreau, Whitman - American. Culture is a set of shared beliefs and experiences. The Declaration of Independence, the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, Pearl Harbor, The Great Depression - all of these things shaped the outlook Americans have as a whole - our culture.

Some of the good things about the US.

The government may be a huge bloated Burosaurus Rex, but the American people can, will and have done something about. What we don't like in the US, we change. If we don't like what an elected official does, we'll vote his ass out of office.

Taxes are some of the lowest in the free world. We bitch about the price of gas, but compared to other countries its not to bad. Our prices for gas, for example, are about $2.00 per gallon right now. Over the river in Canada, it ranges from $2.60 to $3.20, all in the same city.

Health care. Of course we have some bleak spots and I won't even suggest money isn't a factor, but if your life is in danger, law is on the side of the poor. We may not have govenrment funded chiroprators, but you are more likely to live in a hospital here. I have relatives in two countries with socialized health systems. The difference between them? In social health, they will, tell you they did everything they could, stand and mourn with your family after you have passed on. Here, they will give you a whopping big bill, tell you they were happy to save your life, and next patient, please. And while I'm sure altruism is a big part of being a doctor, you don't study for 12 long years just to make an average living. That is why doctors from around the world come to the US; if you are good, you make mad cash.

Here, we can bitch and complain as loud if not louder than foreigners about our sucky government. No riot police to clear the streets at the merest sign of protestors.

I work virtually elbow to elbow with black, hispanic, arab, jew, greek, italian, irish, pagan, aetheist, gay, women, fundamnentalist, short, fat, tall, skinny, ulgy and beautiful. No problems, no worries.

Bits of a foriegn culture we like, we adopt. But we export our culture to more parts of the world than any other group of cultures. I'm a Scot by ancestry, first generation American. I have a great deal of difficulty finding Irn Bru, Scottlands 'other' national drink, but I would bet big money I could walk into any restaraunt on the planet and order a Coke. They might say 'we only have Pepsi'. And of course there is Hollywood, with it's multi-million dollar orgasms spraying all over the fertile fields of the planet. Holllywood is American culture, and it's all over the world.

I've been spending a lot of time over in Canada, Windsor to be specific. I notice the little things. The government controlled monopoly of beer sales. The 15% sales tax on good as opposed to Michigan 6%. The Canadian Postal Service, along with its sister the GPO of Britain, suck. If I send a letter from here in Michigan halfway across the country to California, three days is a long time. I've heard Canadians say that stuff in the same privince may take twice that time and comprable ditances would be closer to ten days.

Gimme time; I'll think of more stuff...
The Royal mail is arguably one of the best in the world. Don't just take it from me , Bill Bryson (an american) compares the two in "notes from a big country". the results fall very heavily on the side of the Royal mail from the evidence collected

That list at the end is all opinions, and ones I don't agree with.

Separation of church and state is how to prevent the religious wars of the middle ages and dogmatic indoctrination of children. Let them find out for themselves, don't drum it into them at school.

Obviously you do not know what the establishment clause was there to prevent. noone seems to remember, or they just don;t give a damn. It was there to prevent a church of england-esque religion. Never said there should be christian teaching in schools, just think it is rediculous for the aclu to piss and moan about there being a 10 commandments statue. having that statue isn;t an establishemnt of religion, no more than having the greek god of justice in a courthouse, or swearing in witnesses with a bible, or having a public official that goes to church. it was put there to prevent the establishemnt of a state church. nothing even remotely close to that has happened, and yet the ACLU and it's buddies scream bloody murder

That's sick! :eek:

Do you want World War III ?!?

No, but the reality of the situation is that somestimes force is by a long way, the best method for achieving something. Is war pretty? No. Is it pleasant? Hell no. Is it necessary? Yes. God yes.

You see if Saddam would have listened to the West. Did he listen before? Before GWI? Precisely. The more we did, the more he acceded, but now Iraq is actually free - the 60-70% election turnouts quite easily evidence that it was something Iraq wanted - the world is a better place. As for false pretences; Bush didn't sit there and think "Hmmm, ah think ah'll make up a lie about weapons o' mass dee-stru-shun", he sat there and read his faulty intelligence reports. These things happen. Fact of life. It doesn't make Bush or America bad.

Ok, Ein Deutscher - I can very, very simply attest to my personal experience that what we see through the media is not the same as what one sees when one actually visits the USA. I've been there several times, have fallen in love with the country, her people, and her culture - yes, I said the US has culture - which is why I'm planning to move over there as soon as I am legally able. So, after you've spent about 6 months in the US, living among ordinary people as opposed to a hotel in the middle of NYC, you'll be free to talk about the US on her domestic faults and benefits, but until such time, I would suggest you refrain from doing so, as you are making groundles points.

So, what is good about America, really? Well, for one, the written constitution. Now, I know here in Europe we have our precendent and so forth, but the fact remains that we don't have anything since the Magna Carta in England laying down our rights. Ergo, there is nothing we can fall back on, to point to and say "It's our right!", because if the government wants to suppress those rights, it can and if it tries, it might well succeed. The symbiolic aspect cannot be discounted either, of course - the same goes for the idea of freedom. Again, here in Europe we're very comfortable with our whole freedom thing, but we don't hold it as a great ideal in the same way it is held to be on in America.

Science and technology are going forward at a rate of knots in the US, as it always has, thanks to her being so encouraging of individual initiative and a person making their own wealth, instead of relying on the disgusting maggot of a social malaise that is socialism. It is actually the case that British citizens have a higher rate of patenting inventions than anywhere else in the world - but there are apparently very few British companies who will take those up, and self-initiatives seem to be few and far between.

Culture, well, here's the one, isn't it? America does have a culture - a strong, proud culture. Just because it is not built on a thousand years of tradition does not mean it does not exist, or is not valid. And as is plainly evidenced by the very enclaves discussed earlier, such as 'Chinatowns', we can see that immigrants to America become Americans, holding American values, but retain their original sense of cultural identity as well. To me, that makes America one of the greatest paragons of our species.

http://www.hudsonreview.com/BawerSp04.html

A very interesting article right there. Long, but good.

Well we keep going back to steak and military might.
Germany is a fine nation (I even try to speak German when I'm there on business)
France is another good place. (I speak bad french there)
I quite like Spain (where I count to ten a lot and say thank you )
All I can see about the US is it's OK. Not great Just OK like eveywhere else we've mentioned.
I haven't heard anything here to convince me otherwise.
That's the way I like it. Finally someone who agrees that the US is NOT the glorious beacon of superiority everyone wants to make it appear as. Thank you!! Admitting that many nations have their good sides too, is much better than seeing the type of Americans here who think their country is gods gift of ambrosia to mankind.

Some of the good things about the US.

The government may be a huge bloated Burosaurus Rex, but the American people can, will and have done something about. What we don't like in the US, we change. If we don't like what an elected official does, we'll vote his ass out of office.

Taxes are some of the lowest in the free world. We bitch about the price of gas, but compared to other countries its not to bad. Our prices for gas, for example, are about $2.00 per gallon right now. Over the river in Canada, it ranges from $2.60 to $3.20, all in the same city.

Health care. Of course we have some bleak spots and I won't even suggest money isn't a factor, but if your life is in danger, law is on the side of the poor. We may not have govenrment funded chiroprators, but you are more likely to live in a hospital here. I have relatives in two countries with socialized health systems. The difference between them? In social health, they will, tell you they did everything they could, stand and mourn with your family after you have passed on. Here, they will give you a whopping big bill, tell you they were happy to save your life, and next patient, please. And while I'm sure altruism is a big part of being a doctor, you don't study for 12 long years just to make an average living. That is why doctors from around the world come to the US; if you are good, you make mad cash.

Here, we can bitch and complain as loud if not louder than foreigners about our sucky government. No riot police to clear the streets at the merest sign of protestors.

I work virtually elbow to elbow with black, hispanic, arab, jew, greek, italian, irish, pagan, aetheist, gay, women, fundamnentalist, short, fat, tall, skinny, ulgy and beautiful. No problems, no worries.

Bits of a foriegn culture we like, we adopt. But we export our culture to more parts of the world than any other group of cultures. I'm a Scot by ancestry, first generation American. I have a great deal of difficulty finding Irn Bru, Scottlands 'other' national drink, but I would bet big money I could walk into any restaraunt on the planet and order a Coke. They might say 'we only have Pepsi'. And of course there is Hollywood, with it's multi-million dollar orgasms spraying all over the fertile fields of the planet. Holllywood is American culture, and it's all over the world.

I've been spending a lot of time over in Canada, Windsor to be specific. I notice the little things. The government controlled monopoly of beer sales. The 15% sales tax on good as opposed to Michigan 6%. The Canadian Postal Service, along with its sister the GPO of Britain, suck. If I send a letter from here in Michigan halfway across the country to California, three days is a long time. I've heard Canadians say that stuff in the same privince may take twice that time and comprable ditances would be closer to ten days.

Gimme time; I'll think of more stuff...
Petrol in England is around $6.30 for a UK gallon so those canadians have got nothing to complain about

Ein Deutscher']The US did not have this experience itself yet, aside from their civil war, which was before the existence of the current nation and thus does not really count as a "traumatic" experience.

What??? This was a defining moment in US History. People who lived as slaves and who fought in the civil war were still alive into the last century. How on earth can you say something as horrific and brutal as the Civil Way isn't a traumatic experiences? What snobbery.

Okay, here's a new one. We have uber-capitalism, Mexicans, and Pepsi. We also have girl scout cookies that rock!

In the US any viewpoint can be aired without fear of government retribution.
This is not true. I remember the last presidential inauguration, where peaceful protesters were pepper sprayed and beaten by police. In fact, in that regard, the US is no different than other western countries - the government protects itself with an iron fist.

Heh. Interesting point: In 20-30 years, Chinese will become the lingua franca, followed by Arabic and Spanish.

Spainish will probably come before the others.

Ein Deutscher']That's the way I like it. Finally someone who agrees that the US is NOT the glorious beacon of superiority everyone wants to make it appear as. Thank you!! Admitting that many nations have their good sides too, is much better than seeing the type of Americans here who think their country is gods gift of ambrosia to mankind.

No, the US is not the glorious beacon of superiority, but it isn't the source of all evilness either. To reconcile everybody: every country has it's good and bad sides about it, really. Trust me on that one, folks. :)

Yeah, it worked before.

Er OK it didn't, but sooner or later it will.
Remeber that it is not an instantn process. Give it more time and Iraq and Afghanistan will turn out fine (relatively)

The government may be a huge bloated Burosaurus Rex, but the American people can, will and have done something about. What we don't like in the US, we change. If we don't like what an elected official does, we'll vote his ass out of office.


exactly.

The Brits are stuck with jug ears Charles (has there ever been anyone less qualified to be head of state?) whether they like it or not, and with a bunch of pompous twits collectively known as house of lords, whether you like em or not.

Look, ANY war is bad. No matter how many people dies and how they die, it's still something that shouldn't happen.

Then again, killing the warmongers doesn't help, new ones always wake up. So it would be better if everyone just ate a cyanide pill and die. The animals don't have nukes, and they don't kill each other for no reason like humans do.

Ein Deutscher']German is not being taken out of schools. Whoever told you that nonsense needs to get a brain. However our language is being transformed into a mixture of German and English and new rules were made by the politicians (hah!) which further confuses the people. We have a few non-profit organisations working to preserve the original language, but it seems to be difficult. I see a lot of English labels in everyday life here in Germany, which are totally unnecessary.

Thats an interesting subject unto itself. Is a language really viable when it must be protected by law? Look at the French who are more and more mandating the use of 'french' terms for common products like CD players and email. In english, a new word is absorbed from other languages or created out fo the new. It is one of the strengths of english in that it adapts and adopts as opposed to resisting.

And you know the saying about resistance...

I just tried wading through all this garbage, and it seemed like the original question was totally wiped out. I have no arguments with other countries. I love America because it's deversified in it's beliefs and cultures whether they originated here or not. In the South, people are warm and friendly. Americans are inventive, and yes...we can be pushy, but you can't really get anywhere without being pushy, can you? Even the countryside is different from North to South to East to West. We are a constantly growing and changing society. There is nowhere in the world that you can go where everything is perfect...people aren't perfect, and that's what makes any country.

Spainish will probably come before the others.
English will remain on top, trust me. Its simplicity and clarity, enforced by US and UK influence will keep it on top of the pile.
Also the influenec of Hollywood and the music industry

I can get a good steak here.

I remember going to a "steak house" in Germany. 250g was considered a big steak. That, and it was a tasteless lump.

A decent aged steak - a good porterhouse - is generally not available in Europe. And, in the US, I prefer the Capital Grille for my steaks.

Morton's isn't bad - but it isn't the best.

come to alberta for steaks

What??? This was a defining moment in US History. People who lived as slaves and who fought in the civil war were still alive into the last century. How on earth can you say something as horrific and brutal as the Civil Way isn't a traumatic experiences? What snobbery.
It did not cause the level of destruction and human suffering the two world wars caused in Europe.

Some of the good things about the US.

The government may be a huge bloated Burosaurus Rex, but the American people can, will and have done something about. What we don't like in the US, we change. If we don't like what an elected official does, we'll vote his ass out of office. Same here in the UK


Taxes are some of the lowest in the free world. We bitch about the price of gas, but compared to other countries its not to bad. Our prices for gas, for example, are about $2.00 per gallon right now. Over the river in Canada, it ranges from $2.60 to $3.20, all in the same city.
Low taxes and low social services. My wife just took a year on full pay off work after giving birth. Her US friends were in the office 2 weeks post partum. Civilization see


Health care. Of course we have some bleak spots and I won't even suggest money isn't a factor, but if your life is in danger, law is on the side of the poor. We may not have govenrment funded chiroprators, but you are more likely to live in a hospital here. I have relatives in two countries with socialized health systems. The difference between them? In social health, they will, tell you they did everything they could, stand and mourn with your family after you have passed on. Here, they will give you a whopping big bill, tell you they were happy to save your life, and next patient, please. And while I'm sure altruism is a big part of being a doctor, you don't study for 12 long years just to make an average living. That is why doctors from around the world come to the US; if you are good, you make mad cash.
You can pay for your health care in the UK if you like. I don't and find myself perfectly served. More importantly everone else regardless of wealth is EQUALLY served

Here, we can bitch and complain as loud if not louder than foreigners about our sucky government. No riot police to clear the streets at the merest sign of protestors.
same in the UK


I work virtually elbow to elbow with black, hispanic, arab, jew, greek, italian, irish, pagan, aetheist, gay, women, fundamnentalist, short, fat, tall, skinny, ulgy and beautiful. No problems, no worries.
Same in the UK


Bits of a foriegn culture we like, we adopt. But we export our culture to more parts of the world than any other group of cultures. I'm a Scot by ancestry, first generation American. I have a great deal of difficulty finding Irn Bru, Scottlands 'other' national drink, but I would bet big money I could walk into any restaraunt on the planet and order a Coke. They might say 'we only have Pepsi'. And of course there is Hollywood, with it's multi-million dollar orgasms spraying all over the fertile fields of the planet. Holllywood is American culture, and it's all over the world.
Exporting it doesn't make it great. Just not too interlectually challenging. It's the lowest common denomenator


I've been spending a lot of time over in Canada, Windsor to be specific. I notice the little things. The government controlled monopoly of beer sales. The 15% sales tax on good as opposed to Michigan 6%. The Canadian Postal Service, along with its sister the GPO of Britain, suck. If I send a letter from here in Michigan halfway across the country to California, three days is a long time. I've heard Canadians say that stuff in the same privince may take twice that time and comprable ditances would be closer to ten days.

I don't know about beer tax in Canada. I pay a lot of beer tax but am free to import truck loads from France Tax free if I like. Your info is out of date the GPO is the Royal mail and is sometime fine and sometimes crap like any other private postal service.
Still don't see any great here. Just ......OK

Ein Deutscher']I have not been. What I can learn through TV, the Internet and from my mother+sister when they were in the US for a month, is enough. You forget that the internet is dominated by Americans, so it's not too difficult figuring out the rest for myself.


TV? You mean everything on TV is correct and real, right? Wow, I guess you Germans and beer swilling, goose-stepping goons who do nothing but make cookoo clocks. I'm so glad you told me TV was real, I would have thought Germans were much more, um, real?

And is the Internet American culture, considering we invented it?

Look, ANY war is bad. No matter how many people dies and how they die, it's still something that shouldn't happen.

Then again, killing the warmongers doesn't help, new ones always wake up. So it would be better if everyone just ate a cyanide pill and die. The animals don't have nukes, and they don't kill each other for no reason like humans do.
War and conflict might be "bad" but in many cases it is necessary.
Animals do kill each other for no reason e.g. When a lion kills another male lion it eats the dead male's children.

Thats an interesting subject unto itself. Is a language really viable when it must be protected by law? Look at the French who are more and more mandating the use of 'french' terms for common products like CD players and email. In english, a new word is absorbed from other languages or created out fo the new. It is one of the strengths of english in that it adapts and adopts as opposed to resisting.

And you know the saying about resistance...
The people here surely value their original languages higher than English. French to the French, Spanish to the Spaniards, British-English to the Britons, German to the Germans, etc. It is to a large part, what defines us as peoples and which has united the tribes to form our nations. Our respective languages mean a great deal to our national identity. Without our languages, we would lose a very large part of our respective cultures, which are the "lead cultures" for people from our countries in the world.

So far for why the US sucks I have picked up that we dont have a culture and we started a war. Thats great. We dont have culture, we can define that as:
2 : the act of developing the intellectual and moral faculties especially by education
a : the integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief, and behavior that depends upon man's capacity for learning and transmitting knowledge to succeeding generations b : the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group c : the set of shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes a company or corporation
Well since we have the worlds top medical/science,law, and art colleges and universities. I believe that argument falls
If u mean culture as in ethnic identity we have variant ethnic identiities we identify ourselves as more than one type of gruop. I may be black, but also be muslim, and a democrat. If u mean that a culture or culture of a nation is measured by its uniformity than well u are an ignant supremist.
As for bringing up examples of historical problems with the U.S there are 2 main ideas
a) Fine thats great but u definately have more F***k ups in european history. for example world wars courtesy of Germany
b) Why should it matter, thats not the current state of the matter. That would be like judging the now parlimentary based england by its kings crimes.
As for starting a war, sure it sucked! War sucks! But Iraq was under a contant terror under its ruler. Now under this new democratic system there is hope for rowth. Atleast moreso than at the the hands of Sddam. Other than that we cant realy argue Iraq since it hasnt trully run its coarse and we dont realy know how this is actualy gointg to end.
I personaly hate the war but if the outcomes are beneficial to the people then there is an overall benefit.
The U.S is excidingly tolerant depending on where u inhabit. There are almost no violations of civil rights in my community.
The only possible problem that the U.S may have is increase in apathy. Its extremely disturbing toknow that only 60% participated in elections. Other wise we realy dont suck.

War and conflict might be "bad" but in many cases it is necessary.
Animals do kill each other for no reason e.g. When a lion kills another male lion it eats the dead male's children.
The male lion does it to spread his own genes. Modern Human wars cannot be compared to nature in any way.

free speech.
i can drive a car and not go broke paying for the gas.

there is cities, deserts, mountains, suburbs, and states that are so different from one another, they are like countries

the books and cds that i order, that arent.....politically correct [for lack of a better word] are not confiscated in customs.

i can have the job that i have. (in most countries, mortuaries are passed through the families only)

i can buy a house, and not have to be rich to do that.

i can not be married and have babies at my age, and not be considered odd.

theres more.....

The big debate (the one that recurs the most, and the one that about half of threads morph into) is *Does America Suck?*. And on the non-suck side, people say "why are you making america look bad?" a lot, and they complain about zeppistan posting news stories that make america look bad, and so on and so forth. So my question is - what can you say to make america look good?

I learned a lot about US gun laws and constitutional rights and so on in my guns and us constitution thread. Teach me more - what are the good things about the US?

Financial freedom: Relatively low tax rates, relative ease of entrepreneurialism, the American Dream, good (comparitively) proprietary rights.

Strides in the fight against racism: Actually we now have a bit of a double-standard against white people (at least one has been legislated into effect and is rampant in our media), but the wrongs against blacks and other minorities have been greatly reduced over the past 40 years or so, which outweighs any annoying PCness. We are more or less willing to fight the battle against racism. In terms of sex discrimination, women have increasingly enjoyed greater equality over the past 100 years or so and continue to do so. We're not there yet, and we know it, which is a plus.

Checks and balances: Executive vs. Legislative vs. Judiciary .. designed to keep any one branch from gaining too much power. This is quite an advantageous set-up to enjoy at the federal level.

Constitution that can be changed: While the Constitution of the United States is rock-solid in many respects, it allows for changes/additions to be made to it)

A republic of 50 states: America is one country, but we are also 50 unique mini-countries... which add to the internal diversity of our nation. There is balance between states' rights and federal rights.

The whole vs. the individual: America is one nation made up of individuals. We have been able to preserve the best of the "the whole vs. the sum of its parts" dilemma. See the above state/federal synopsis.

Presidential voting: Results are determined by the Electoral College. Every time a person votes, his vote is tallied as part of his STATE's vote. The candidate that each state chooses, overall (popular vote), gets the state's electoral votes. This helps to ensure that each state has a voice in the election of the president, rather than just the largest cities in the country. If there were no electoral college, presidential candidates would totally forget about (and not campaign in) large portions of the country -- they'd spend their time in major cities like New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, maybe Houston and Philadelphia. This form helps to preserve some power for the states, and each state.

Economy: Because of economic/financial freedom, and because of the hard-working attitude of most Americans, we enjoy a very strong economy. People go out and start businesses every day, which leads to the creation of jobs and added competition... competition generally results in better value for consumers (IE, price-to-quality ratio is low... you're paying less for better products). With such freedom (low barriers to entry) comes responsibility, and we have checks in place to help ensure that consumers aren't totally ripped off. We have negative occurrences, but there are FAR more positive transactions than negative/fraudulent ones (the negative ones are on the news though...).

Defense: We cannot enjoy our freedoms if we are dead or hiding in a cave. Because we know this, we have a very strong military to protect us from both foreign and domestic attacks. Our defense allows us to enjoy the freedoms guaranteed in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Aid to others: We are constantly helping other countries, whether with blind financial aid or other forms of aid, like ousting evil dictators and hastening popular votes on foreign soil. We effectively sounded the death knell for Nazi Germany, Italy and Japan when we entered World War II. We have done a very great deal to help the world.

Freedom of movement/pursuit of happiness: We can go wherever we want to in the US, whenever we want to, and as long as (generally) we're not bothering other people, we can do or say whatever we want to. Freedom is the #1 gift of America to its people, and we enjoy it to a great degree.


Fried chicken: We have fried chicken. Fried chicken kicks ass.
---

well that's a few good things about the USA.

TV? You mean everything on TV is correct and real, right? Wow, I guess you Germans and beer swilling, goose-stepping goons who do nothing but make cookoo clocks. I'm so glad you told me TV was real, I would have thought Germans were much more, um, real?

And is the Internet American culture, considering we invented it?
Its the Swiss that make cuckoo clocks.
We Brits invented the web browser and the computer so its not all the US

exactly.

The Brits are stuck with jug ears Charles (has there ever been anyone less qualified to be head of state?) whether they like it or not, and with a bunch of pompous twits collectively known as house of lords, whether you like em or not.
Shows how little the UK is understood. The royal family are just powerless figureheads. They're cheaper and less troublesome than a president.
The house of lords is under going major reform. Chinless inbred idiots are out and nominated citizens are in.
Progress.

Ein Deutscher']This is not true. I remember the last presidential inauguration, where peaceful protesters were pepper sprayed and beaten by police. In fact, in that regard, the US is no different than other western countries - the government protects itself with an iron fist.


peaceful protestors? they lobbed missiles at the presidents limo and the police, what fantasy world you live in that calls that peaceful behaviour? :confused:

Ein Deutscher']The male lion does it to spread his own genes. Modern Human wars cannot be compared to nature in any way.
Substitute "my agenda" with "genes" and its exactly the same.

Shows how little the UK is understood. The royal family are just powerless figureheads. They're cheaper and less troublesome than a president.
The house of lords is under going major reform. Chinless inbred idiots are out and nominated citizens are in.
Progress.

I disagree, considering what I read about them they are more troublesome. Why not choose the German model and have the combined parliament nominate someone every 5 years. Who ever heard of the post WW II German president doing crazy things? No one.

To deny the privilege of the position of head of state to millions of people based upon the fact that they weren't born into the 'right' family, is inheritly discriminatory.

peaceful protestors? they lobbed missiles at the presidents limo and the police, what fantasy world you live in that calls that peaceful behaviour? :confused:

Does anyone find this funny considering the name of the poste... :p

Its the Swiss that make cuckoo clocks.
We Brits invented the web browser and the computer so its not all the US

no you didn't. We did.

Does anyone find this funny considering the name of the poste... :p

sure, a personal attack, that always wins you arguments :rolleyes:

I can't be bothered to quote you Americans seperately anymore. You don't bother to read any old posts.
The things mentioned time and again by you are common throughout the first world. You just haven't been there to see it. What you think makes the US great just makes it average. Just the same as the rest of us.
You're boring and average just like the rest of us. What's so wrong with admitting it?
You are not great....Just...OK

Shows how little the UK is understood. The royal family are just powerless figureheads. They're cheaper and less troublesome than a president.
The house of lords is under going major reform. Chinless inbred idiots are out and nominated citizens are in.
Progress.
Its not progress. Its replacing tory and lib dem heriditary peers who care amnd bother to vote with labour nominated stooges who claim expenses but can rarely be bothered to vote. No progress.
The level of class envy in my own country sickens me. You only call them inbred because you are envious that your family didn't put the effort into becoming noble in the very distant past when such things were decided.

I've been out of the thread for a while. Have we argued about WW2 yet?

War and conflict might be "bad" but in many cases it is necessary.
Animals do kill each other for no reason e.g. When a lion kills another male lion it eats the dead male's children.

True. Sometimes it's the only way, but still, its all useless. But life is.

Can't show you anything in our constitution because it is implicit rather than explicit. So we don't have arguments about what some blokes meant 250 years ago by "arms" or something.

We have 700 years of legal precedent to guarantee our freedom of speech, and since nobody in america can agree what the constitution means, and since the US govt can pass laws that people think are unconstitutional, your constitutional guarantees don't appear to mean much.

About a month ago, the UK government passed a law allowing the imprisonment without trial of foreign nationals under certain circumstances. The law was judged unconstitutional by the UK high court and has been repealed.

Shame you much vaunted legal precedents didn't do the same for your northern neighbors 250 years ago. There wasn't too much in the way of rights for the Scots as they were being shipped off to colonies all over the world, their lands stolen and their culture downtrodden.

peaceful protestors? they lobbed missiles at the presidents limo and the police, what fantasy world you live in that calls that peaceful behaviour? :confused:

It's one thing to voice your opinion in a peaceful manner. It's another thing to illegally (did they have tickets?) crash someone else's party (Republican National Convention) and generally act like a wild animal once inside. It's also not cool to throw things at people. Both examples of such model behavior made the snobbish part of me wonder, "Have these people no decency?" Snobbish or not, the question is appropriate. If you want your views to be respected, don't act like an animal.

Its not progress. Its replacing tory and lib dem heriditary peers who care amnd bother to vote with labour nominated stooges who claim expenses but can rarely be bothered to vote. No progress.
The level of class envy in my own country sickens me. You only call them inbred because you are envious that your family didn't put the effort into becoming noble in the very distant past when such things were decided.
Morgallis. Take a chill pill. Just because Green-Rain-person was right, doesn't mean I'm listening to you.

I disagree, considering what I read about them they are more troublesome. Why not choose the German model and have the combined parliament nominate someone every 5 years. Who ever heard of the post WW II German president doing crazy things? No one.

To deny the privilege of the position of head of state to millions of people based upon the fact that they weren't born into the 'right' family, is inheritly discriminatory.
Nah! they're a great joke that we find funny. Maybe you have to live here to get the joke.
We don't need another head of state the system works fine without one. Of course if the joke goes stale we may go to a German model. It's a fine one. But think of the American and japanese tourists that the Royals attract.
What fun. Head of state = Theme park/ tourist attraction LOL

Its not progress. Its replacing tory and lib dem heriditary peers who care amnd bother to vote with labour nominated stooges who claim expenses but can rarely be bothered to vote. No progress.
The level of class envy in my own country sickens me. You only call them inbred because you are envious that your family didn't put the effort into becoming noble in the very distant past when such things were decided.

you explain why person A should hold a voting position in a house of parliament JUST BECAUSE his ancestors did.

That's stupid. And by the way, it had nothing to do with families 'putting effort' into becoming 'noble', it was just a large powergrab by a few elite figures who then declared their rule hereditary.

We never would have had great presidents like T. Roosevelt, Lincoln and Reagan had we stuck to that stupid concept.

The words and deeds of a person say nothing about his children. Every position in life must be earned or decided by election, not inherited.

Same here in the UK

Low taxes and low social services. My wife just took a year on full pay off work after giving birth. Her US friends were in the office 2 weeks post partum. Civilization see

You can pay for your health care in the UK if you like. I don't and find myself perfectly served. More importantly everone else regardless of wealth is EQUALLY served
same in the UK

Same in the UK

Exporting it doesn't make it great. Just not too interlectually challenging. It's the lowest common denomenator


I don't know about beer tax in Canada. I pay a lot of beer tax but am free to import truck loads from France Tax free if I like. Your info is out of date the GPO is the Royal mail and is sometime fine and sometimes crap like any other private postal service.
Still don't see any great here. Just ......OK


Ya beer here in alberta is not much more expensive than in montana, plus tis better beer

Financial freedom: Relatively low tax rates, relative ease of entrepreneurialism, the American Dream, good (comparitively) proprietary rights.

Comes with a sub-par social security net and poverty levels that are the shame of the western hemisphere.


Strides in the fight against racism: Actually we now have a bit of a double-standard against white people (at least one has been legislated into effect and is rampant in our media), but the wrongs against blacks and other minorities have been greatly reduced over the past 40 years or so, which outweighs any annoying PCness. We are more or less willing to fight the battle against racism. In terms of sex discrimination, women have increasingly enjoyed greater equality over the past 100 years or so and continue to do so. We're not there yet, and we know it, which is a plus.

Gay marriage - need I say more? How about the fact that the death penalty is applied to black Americans more often? Are they predestined for this due to their skin color? Odd.

Checks and balances: Executive vs. Legislative vs. Judiciary .. designed to keep any one branch from gaining too much power. This is quite an advantageous set-up to enjoy at the federal level.

Same in Germany. Though it doesn't really mean much, when all of these branches are stacked in favour of any one party. Actually, the 2-party system in the US sucks a lot - the same goes for Germany.

Constitution that can be changed: While the Constitution of the United States is rock-solid in many respects, it allows for changes/additions to be made to it)

Which might not always be so benefitial - Gay marriage again ;) In fact, while the constitution might be written on paper, things like the Patriot Act make sure that the government gets more power than it should have.

A republic of 50 states: America is one country, but we are also 50 unique mini-countries... which add to the internal diversity of our nation. There is balance between states' rights and federal rights.

Fewer states in Germany, but the same here. It's not always for the better though, but an interesting form of government.

The whole vs. the individual: America is one nation made up of individuals. We have been able to preserve the best of the "the whole vs. the sum of its parts" dilemma. See the above state/federal synopsis.

I guess all nations are made up of individuals. Can't see how that is something especially good about the US.

Presidential voting: Results are determined by the Electoral College. Every time a person votes, his vote is tallied as part of his STATE's vote. The candidate that each state chooses, overall (popular vote), gets the state's electoral votes. This helps to ensure that each state has a voice in the election of the president, rather than just the largest cities in the country. If there were no electoral college, presidential candidates would totally forget about (and not campaign in) large portions of the country -- they'd spend their time in major cities like New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, maybe Houston and Philadelphia. This form helps to preserve some power for the states, and each state.

The electoral college is seen as highly unfair in most western countries (as far as I can tell). It is old and outdated and does in no way reflect the will of the people. In fact, the presidential elections are now easily rigged, due to the electronic equipment being used. You have some very odd policies regarding counting of votes in the US - so much that each year various lawsuits need to determine who actually won.

Economy: Because of economic/financial freedom, and because of the hard-working attitude of most Americans, we enjoy a very strong economy. People go out and start businesses every day, which leads to the creation of jobs and added competition... competition generally results in better value for consumers (IE, price-to-quality ratio is low... you're paying less for better products). With such freedom (low barriers to entry) comes responsibility, and we have checks in place to help ensure that consumers aren't totally ripped off. We have negative occurrences, but there are FAR more positive transactions than negative/fraudulent ones (the negative ones are on the news though...).

The fact that the US have - in numerous wars - secured foreign markets for their own products, surely helped with this. But lately your economy seems to not be doing so fine. (Neither does ours). The problem with the US however is that as soon as there is a problem with the economy, the US president starts a war somewhere and the warfare industry kickstarts the economy again. Very bad practice.

Defense: We cannot enjoy our freedoms if we are dead or hiding in a cave. Because we know this, we have a very strong military to protect us from both foreign and domestic attacks. Our defense allows us to enjoy the freedoms guaranteed in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

The US is quite remote from all other countries which could threaten it. It's military is primarily used to overthrown other governments (with or without UN approval) and to open up new markets or to secure resources. The defense argument is highly exaggerated since the military does not help you against terrorists at home. A fundamental turnaround in foreign policy probably would.

Aid to others: We are constantly helping other countries, whether with blind financial aid or other forms of aid, like ousting evil dictators and hastening popular votes on foreign soil. We effectively sounded the death knell for Nazi Germany, Italy and Japan when we entered World War II. We have done a very great deal to help the world.

And also done a great deal of harm to the world. In that regard, the US is no better than any other country and has it's own share of genocide. Or need I remind you who - in many cases - brought these various dictators to power?

Freedom of movement/pursuit of happiness: We can go wherever we want to in the US, whenever we want to, and as long as (generally) we're not bothering other people, we can do or say whatever we want to. Freedom is the #1 gift of America to its people, and we enjoy it to a great degree.

Same in the EU. I could move/work/live anywhere I want in the EU. We can also say (almost) everything we want to. Given our (in Germany) history, we have some restrictions on that. I've seen people detained/tortured/attacked in the US for exercising their "freedom". This opened my eyes to the fact that the US is not freer than other western countries.

Fried chicken: We have fried chicken. Fried chicken kicks ass.

Quite common elsewhere too.

Nah! they're a great joke that we find funny. Maybe you have to live here to get the joke.
We don't need another head of state the system works fine without one. Of course if the joke goes stale we may go to a German model. It's a fine one. But think of the American and japanese tourists that the Royals attract.
What fun. Head of state = Theme park/ tourist attraction LOL
Don't abandon your queen. Many Germans would like to see our own Kaiser/King back - even if for representation only ;) If only it weren't so expensive *sigh*

Having a queen sets you apart from the stale and gray democracies in the world ;) And Elisabeth II. is a cool queen imo. She's good at representing the UK (at least she did fine when she visited Dresden last year).

Its not progress. Its replacing tory and lib dem heriditary peers who care amnd bother to vote with labour nominated stooges who claim expenses but can rarely be bothered to vote. No progress.
The level of class envy in my own country sickens me. You only call them inbred because you are envious that your family didn't put the effort into becoming noble in the very distant past when such things were decided.
Dear dear You sound sulky.
I once worked with an Earl. He refused to sit in the (unreformed) house because of what HE called the inbred, chinless wankers.
Who's better qualified than that to judge his peers? (pun intended)
I am not envious of anyone. I have raised my self as did my father and as will my son.

I disagree, considering what I read about them they are more troublesome. Why not choose the German model and have the combined parliament nominate someone every 5 years. Who ever heard of the post WW II German president doing crazy things? No one.

To deny the privilege of the position of head of state to millions of people based upon the fact that they weren't born into the 'right' family, is inheritly discriminatory.
Many of us are not fond of the German system. In fact, we'd prefer more referendums to have the people decide directly and not have our (oftentimes corrupt) politicians appoint someone who has no backing in the population at all.

The Royal mail is arguably one of the best in the world. Don't just take it from me , Bill Bryson (an american) compares the two in "notes from a big country". the results fall very heavily on the side of the Royal mail from the evidence collected


Hmm.. May be. But I only have two sources of info on the GPO, my aunt who worked for them for 30 plus years and my own personal experience, mailing relatives, friends and eBay customers.

Ein Deutscher']Don't abandon your queen. Many Germans would like to see our own Kaiser/King back - even if for representation only ;) If only it weren't so expensive *sigh*

Having a queen sets you apart from the stale and gray democracies in the world ;) And Elisabeth II. is a cool queen imo. She's good at representing the UK (at least she did fine when she visited Dresden last year).
Tell you what. We'll share our royal family with you. After all they are German too so it's only fair. :p

America is alright for a couple of reasons (That haven't already been mentioned)

1) We don't censor our porn like Japan or not have any porn at all like most moralistic, despot nations. You can't argue with boobs.. or wangs, if you're gay/bi/a woman.

2) (Even though this has been mentioned before) We have good food. Even food you'd think would be from somewhere else is actually American. Like pizza and chop-suey.

3) We single-handedly invented the video game industry. Contrary to popular belief, Atari was an American company. Japan didn't even get in on the act until the early 80's.

4) While we do have our poor, a lot of them is still pretty better off compared to those in other nations. I remember some of my poorer friends having cable, for God's Sakes!

5) The USA is realtively big. It'd take at least 5 years of my life to see the 'generic America'. More so if I wanted to get a sense of the 'real America'.

More later...

Ein Deutscher']That's the way I like it. Finally someone who agrees that the US is NOT the glorious beacon of superiority everyone wants to make it appear as. Thank you!! Admitting that many nations have their good sides too, is much better than seeing the type of Americans here who think their country is gods gift of ambrosia to mankind.

You're right... No one wants to come to the US. My parents, immigrants, are a fluke. And so are all their immigrants friends and relatives. Hell, in the place I work, of the 2000 or so that work there, the several hundred who are immigrnats or direct children of immigrants must be some sort of fluke. And all those immigration offices I see in Windsor, promising to help people get into the US must be fronts for massage parlours. Ad nauseum, etcetera...

Morgallis. Take a chill pill. Just because Green-Rain-person was right, doesn't mean I'm listening to you.
I thank you Sharky

All I have to say is I like the American culture. And for those of you who claim we don't have one, I ask what, precisely it is that makes us billions of dollars every year in nations around the world. And if you say you don't like our culture, then I say tough shit. Apparently most of your countrymen DO. Otherwise they would give us so much money.

And as far as the American government is concerned, I'm satisfied with it. The only reason Bush can do what he does is that 51% of the nation voted for him, and supports his actions. Since Clinton did whatever the hell he wanted, and he never passed 48%, I'd say Bush can go right on ahead. It doesn't show a failure of our system that he is in office. It shows that he accurately represents the majority of voters. Might I add that most of the Americans on these forums aren't old enough to vote. So they mean squat.

And, just because you inbred Europeans with your cultural cleanliness and complete lack of diversity within individual nations don't like how we handle the gay rights situation does not mean we will now change our policy for you. Guess what? Americans have a larger economy that is actually growing. The only European nation that can approach that claim is the UK. I'm certainly not going to take advice from you.

And by the way, more people arond the world visit McDonald's every day than visit those castles, and museums every month. Enjoy the irony.

Screw America, after this thread, I'm moving back to Hungary!

Oh wait, the engineering schools there kind of suck compared to the ones here.

Oh well, looks like I'm staying in the USA after all ;)

Petrol in England is around $6.30 for a UK gallon so those canadians have got nothing to complain about

You ain't whistling Dixie, brother. You should hear these Yanks bitcing about the price of gas HERE. I, on the ohter hand, rad the news and know how cheap it is comparably. And a large tax is placed on the gas to fund our roads. Hate to say it, but your M roads aren't up to par with our highway systems. The Germans have the closest things, but the Amerrcian system is continant wide. It'd be like going from the Iberian Peninsula to Moscow, at least four lanes, at 120k all the way.

come to alberta for steaks

Sorry, but I don't like to eat mad cows'! ;)

Any American can point out the flaws in this country. It's easy. Pointing out the good thing such as haveing the right to say "George W. Bush is a dumbass" or to post it freely w/ out fear of government sanctioned reprisals is pretty freakin nice.

Most of us are simple hardworking men and women who are tired of the steriotypes and the politicans that seem to create them.

Those of you from the UK who don't have bad teeth may have an idea of where I'm coming from.

Tell you what. We'll share our royal family with you. After all they are German too so it's only fair. :p
Nah. We want our own :P

Ein Deutscher']This is not true. I remember the last presidential inauguration, where peaceful protesters were pepper sprayed and beaten by police. In fact, in that regard, the US is no different than other western countries - the government protects itself with an iron fist.

Um, you mean the egg and tomato tossing folk? I didn't know that throwing things was considered 'peaceful' over there...

All I have to say is I like the American culture. And for those of you who claim we don't have one, I ask what, precisely it is that makes us billions of dollars every year in nations around the world. And if you say you don't like our culture, then I say tough shit. Apparently most of your countrymen DO. Otherwise they would give us so much money.

And as far as the American government is concerned, I'm satisfied with it. The only reason Bush can do what he does is that 51% of the nation voted for him, and supports his actions. Since Clinton did whatever the hell he wanted, and he never passed 48%, I'd say Bush can go right on ahead. It doesn't show a failure of our system that he is in office. It shows that he accurately represents the majority of voters. Might I add that most of the Americans on these forums aren't old enough to vote. So they mean squat.

And, just because you inbred Europeans with your cultural cleanliness and complete lack of diversity within individual nations don't like how we handle the gay rights situation does not mean we will now change our policy for you. Guess what? Americans have a larger economy that is actually growing. The only European nation that can approach that claim is the UK. I'm certainly not going to take advice from you.

And by the way, more people arond the world visit McDonald's every day than visit those castles, and museums every month. Enjoy the irony.
Look we in Europe don't care OK.
The question was what makes the US great and you list a whole load of stuff that's just ....well stuff.
having a government elected by a majority doesn't make you great jsut normal. we've been doing it in europe for a while now.
I don't understand why you think europe is not diverse it seems pretty diverse from where I live.
We don't care how you handle gay rights and it hardly makes you great how ever you do it.
We are not actually slagging the US off here (we could easily but it's boring) we just don't see you as great. You're just average (maybe a little below). Not special in a world of average just OK. nothing more. So get back in your pram.

English will remain on top, trust me. Its simplicity and clarity, enforced by US and UK influence will keep it on top of the pile.
Also the influenec of Hollywood and the music industry

I would have thought the same way until I started studying foreign languages. You know hard the sentance 'The theater there is just as Julie thought it was' would be for a Russian speaker? I would have had no idea until my Russian tutor told me about it.

Any American can point out the flaws in this country. It's easy. Pointing out the good thing such as haveing the right to say "George W. Bush is a dumbass" or to post it freely w/ out fear of government sanctioned reprisals is pretty freakin nice.

Most of us are simple hardworking men and women who are tired of the steriotypes and the politicans that seem to create them.

Those of you from the UK who don't have bad teeth may have an idea of where I'm coming from.
Ahhhhh.
Simple home spun common sense.
"Tony Blair is a wanker!!"
see no reprisals here either.
The US is a fine country. As are many others I've visited. But not great.
It's good to be average. You at least seem to admit that. There are a lot people below you when you're average. Thats fine by me.
I salute your hardworking ethic!

... haveing the right to say "George W. Bush is a dumbass" or to post it freely w/ out fear of government sanctioned reprisals is pretty freakin nice.


Like this guy?
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/02/23/164223

Or how about this?
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/02/10/1545230

Comes with a sub-par social security net and poverty levels that are the shame of the western hemisphere.

Ein Deutscher, you simply don't know what you are talking about. There are very few countries in the Western Hemisphere with lower poverty rates than in the U.S.. Canada probably, Chile maybe.

I noted a remark earlier from you about how the U.S. is all uber rich or uber poor. Actually, the middle class makes up the largest economic group. And live very comfortably.

Is the U.S. perfect? No! Is anyplace? I doubt it.

There are a lot of reasons the U.S. is great but why list them here. You have all the answers.

Comes with a sub-par social security net and poverty levels that are the shame of the western hemisphere.

See, I think that social security is just another tax that should be done away with... but that would piss off the socialists and those who believe that able people should have the right to live off workers' salaries (it's far deeper than just social security). As for poverty levels, plenty of jobs are available. Not everyone is equally intelligent, lucky, hard-working, etc... and with freedom, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE POOR PEOPLE. I'd rather have freedom and a lot of poor people than total socialism and no ability to succeed due to a total restriction of proprietary rights/financial freedom.

------------------------------------------
Gay marriage - need I say more? How about the fact that the death penalty is applied to black Americans more often? Are they predestined for this due to their skin color? Odd.

DP sucks... I agree with that wholeheartedly. As for why blacks are executed more, I would imagine it's because more of them are convicted of heinous crimes. If someone murders another person, we can't just say, "Well, he's black, so let's cut him some slack." As for gay marriage, every state that had this vote up for referendum voted it down.. even Left Coast states. Marriage is defined as the union of one man and one woman anyway. One man + one man cannot equal marriage, by definition. I don't really care about it personally.
---------------------------------------------
Same in Germany. Though it doesn't really mean much, when all of these branches are stacked in favour of any one party. Actually, the 2-party system in the US sucks a lot - the same goes for Germany.

Okay, we could use a "moderate" party.
---------------------------------------------
Which might not always be so benefitial - Gay marriage again ;) In fact, while the constitution might be written on paper, things like the Patriot Act make sure that the government gets more power than it should have.

The patriot act is a tough call... on the one hand, it takes away some freedoms from a few people. On the other hand, it helps to protect us. Which is more important: the freedoms of a few or the protection of all?
---------------------------------------------
I guess all nations are made up of individuals. Can't see how that is something especially good about the US.

Sure. The aim of my post was to promote the US, not necessarily to compare it to others.
---------------------------------------------
The electoral college is seen as highly unfair in most western countries (as far as I can tell). It is old and outdated and does in no way reflect the will of the people. In fact, the presidential elections are now easily rigged, due to the electronic equipment being used. You have some very odd policies regarding counting of votes in the US - so much that each year various lawsuits need to determine who actually won.

The electoral college helps ensure that every state is heard. Like I said, without it only large metropolitan areas would matter.
----------------------------------------------
The fact that the US have - in numerous wars - secured foreign markets for their own products, surely helped with this. But lately your economy seems to not be doing so fine. (Neither does ours). The problem with the US however is that as soon as there is a problem with the economy, the US president starts a war somewhere and the warfare industry kickstarts the economy again. Very bad practice.

Debatable... we were attacked. Afghanistan was a logical starting point at which to retaliate. See, Al Qaeda is not a country... there is no country called Terroristan. So we're going where we think terrorists are or where terrorists might be trained. In the case of IRaq, there was not a HUGE terrorist thing but a very bad man who might want to hook up with terrorists in the future. He's gone and his people just had their first free vote in 50 years. I'll take the results even if the means meant some lost their lives. They weren't going to be set free by asking Saddam.
------------------------------------------
The US is quite remote from all other countries which could threaten it. It's military is primarily used to overthrown other governments (with or without UN approval) and to open up new markets or to secure resources. The defense argument is highly exaggerated since the military does not help you against terrorists at home. A fundamental turnaround in foreign policy probably would.

Right. We have police, FBI, etc. to handle most domestic terrorism. If needed we have the National Guard. While we are not too close to a major potential foe, we are strong enough to keep potential foes from being stupid enough to attack us conventionally. We can thank the USSR for that (sort of) and blame Clinton for a weakened military which we've had to spend so much to rebuild in order to fight terrorism/free afghanistan/free iraq.
-------------------------------------------
And also done a great deal of harm to the world. In that regard, the US is no better than any other country and has it's own share of genocide. Or need I remind you who - in many cases - brought these various dictators to power?

Cite examples of harm. In every (or nearly every) instance we likely had at least a half-right reason for taking action. Yes, we gave weapons to Saddam 20 years ago... to fight Iran. We did not ask him to gas the Kurds or kill thousands of Shi'a in his own country.
-------------------------------------------
Same in the EU. I could move/work/live anywhere I want in the EU. We can also say (almost) everything we want to. Given our (in Germany) history, we have some restrictions on that. I've seen people detained/tortured/attacked in the US for exercising their "freedom". This opened my eyes to the fact that the US is not freer than other western countries.

That's cool.
---------------------------------------
Quite common elsewhere too.

Fried chicken? hehe. I had to add some form of levity.

Um, you mean the egg and tomato tossing folk? I didn't know that throwing things was considered 'peaceful' over there...
Eggs and tomatoes seems pretty tame to what I would like to throw at Bush.

However, read this:
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/01/21/1531230

Ein Deutscher']It did not cause the level of destruction and human suffering the two world wars caused in Europe.

You mena that whole thing about entire cities being burned and more American dead than in all the other wars fought combined don't count, eh?

Ein Deutscher']Comes with a sub-par social security net and poverty levels that are the shame of the western hemisphere.
In 2003, according to the US Census, 12.5% of the US population was below the poverty line. Poverty is, roughly, less than $20,000/year for a family of four here in the US. Here's a table that show what it is for different ages and family sizes:
http://www.census.gov/hhes/poverty/threshld/thresh03.html
I'd like to know what's poverty, and what level it's at in Europe.

Ein Deutscher'] How about the fact that the death penalty is applied to black Americans more often? Are they predestined for this due to their skin color? Odd.
Not predestined, but black males are the cause of a disproportionate number of violent crimes here in the US.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/ageracesex.htm
When black males cause ten times the number of homicides as white males, they're going to be more severely punished.

Ein Deutscher'] But lately your economy seems to not be doing so fine. (Neither does ours).
Try speaking only for your own country. Our economy has seen a steady growth over the last few years. We've been recovering from 9/11 at a steady clip while most of Europe continues to be stagnate. Unemployment is at 5.5% here. It's 10% in France, and nearly 13% in Germany.

Ein Deutscher'] The defense argument is highly exaggerated since the military does not help you against terrorists at home. A fundamental turnaround in foreign policy probably would.
Since the Bush administration started aggresively hunting terrorist networks overseas with the military, there have been a decrease of terrorist attacks on US soil. During the preavious years there was the Oklahoma City bombing, embassy bombings, USS Kohl bombing, and finally the planes in the Twin Towers. Now we just have to worry about ELF on American Soil.

Its the Swiss that make cuckoo clocks.
We Brits invented the web browser and the computer so its not all the US

Sorry, I don't watch much TV, so I don't know all these things...

;)

Since the Bush administration started aggresively hunting terrorist networks overseas with the military, there have been a decrease of terrorist attacks on US soil. During the preavious years there was the Oklahoma City bombing, embassy bombings, USS Kohl bombing, and finally the planes in the Twin Towers. Now we just have to worry about ELF on American Soil.
Actually, there were years between the various terrorist attacks on US property or on US soil. Expect the next terrorist attack to be a nuclear bomb in some big city like New York or some biological weapon. The potential for terrorism against the US has not been decreased by Bush's actions. In fact, he has inflamed the middle east into a region of people who view the US as imperialist devil (that it is). The US has constantly lost allies from it's coalition of the willing (or bought) and how exactly does that help to reduce terrorism against the US? I'd actually say, terrorism has increased a lot, since the Iraq war. Various countries had to deal with more terrorism now - also related to participation in that war - than they had before this war.

I would like to say one thing having to do with the topic. I see the US and all of its "faults" along with all the rest of the countries in the world as providing a unique example to the rest of the world. As is inherent with all things, any stance on a value or policy has trade-offs with other values and policies. I like to live in a country where I disagree with my goverment on many of its policies, mainly because i know that there is no absolute right, and that i therefor might be wrong. Lets take the invasion of Iraq as an example, I highly disagreed with it for a great while, and on many levels, still do, however, the euphoria experienced by a still tumultous Iraqi population has produced many good effects, which i would have said unlikely befor the elections, like a free election for the PA and the grassroots movements in lebenon against Syrian occupation. I am a stedfast feminist and adimently defend gay rights, and just the mere fact that i am able to live in this country with those who disagree with me, and participate in the democratic process makes me proud (even though it may look like i am on the minority side of things). I love the fact that i am able to experience so many vast cultures, from hickville nevada, to authentic indian, thai, chinese, Irish, and german and all within a short drive, because, as was said earlier in the forum, we import a great bit of our culture. This is why I think america is essentially "good" not because it is better, but because it is different, even, and especially, in my own country.

Its not progress. Its replacing tory and lib dem heriditary peers who care amnd bother to vote with labour nominated stooges who claim expenses but can rarely be bothered to vote. No progress.
The level of class envy in my own country sickens me. You only call them inbred because you are envious that your family didn't put the effort into becoming noble in the very distant past when such things were decided.

You = winner. The level of classism here in the UK is absolutely disgusting, and probably contributes to a vast number of our problems.


3) We single-handedly invented the video game industry. Contrary to popular belief, Atari was an American company. Japan didn't even get in on the act until the early 80's.

Another excellent example of American contributions to culture - whilst Japan and Britain have both made massive and revolutionary contributions to the industry, it has its roots in the US of A.


You're right... No one wants to come to the US. My parents, immigrants, are a fluke. And so are all their immigrants friends and relatives. Hell, in the place I work, of the 2000 or so that work there, the several hundred who are immigrnats or direct children of immigrants must be some sort of fluke. And all those immigration offices I see in Windsor, promising to help people get into the US must be fronts for massage parlours. Ad nauseum, etcetera...

Oh I know, right? I most certainly do not want to emigrate to the USA! I want to stay here in England, but I'm being forced to move by the despotic... the uh... the.... well I don't know who! But SOMEone must be!


You ain't whistling Dixie, brother. You should hear these Yanks bitcing about the price of gas HERE. I, on the ohter hand, rad the news and know how cheap it is comparably. And a large tax is placed on the gas to fund our roads. Hate to say it, but your M roads aren't up to par with our highway systems. The Germans have the closest things, but the Amerrcian system is continant wide. It'd be like going from the Iberian Peninsula to Moscow, at least four lanes, at 120k all the way.

England has the highest road taxes in Europe - and thus, unless Japan or Australia exceeed us - in the west, and we have the worst road system in Europe. *Shrugs* Looks to me like someone somewhere is making some baaad choices with their money, given the US' far lower tax rate and far, -far- better roads.

Oh wait.

It's our money.

Damnitall.

Those of you from the UK who don't have bad teeth may have an idea of where I'm coming from.

Hi! That'd be me. And yes, I know where you're coming from =P


Simple home spun common sense.
"Tony Blair is a wanker!!"

But that is a great thing. Given that, until a few short centuries ago, such comments would have you killed or imprisoned pretty much anywhere in the world. It makes other countries that are the same way great in that regard as well - it doesn't devalue the worth of a policy if more than one nation has realised it's a good policy.

In 2003, according to the US Census, 12.5% of the US population was below the poverty line. Poverty is, roughly, less than $20,000/year for a family of four here in the US. Here's a table that show what it is for different ages and family sizes:
http://www.census.gov/hhes/poverty/threshld/thresh03.html
I'd like to know what's poverty, and what level it's at in Europe.
.
"In 1989, the United States had 66 billionaires and 31.5 million people living below the official poverty line. A decade later, the United States has 268 billionaires and 34.5 million people living below the poverty line–about $13,000 for a three-person family."

http://www.faireconomy.org/press/archive/1999/Divided_Decade/divided_decade.html

Nothing to brag about and nothing that makes you great

Ya beer here in alberta is not much more expensive than in montana, plus tis better beer

Okay, conceeded. In the realm of beer, Canada beats the US hands down. And Alberta is better than Ontario. If I remmeber correctly, you guys don't have Liquor Control Boards which have a monopoly on booze there, right?

Okay, conceeded. In the realm of beer, Canada beats the US hands down. And Alberta is better than Ontario. If I remmeber correctly, you guys don't have Liquor Control Boards which have a monopoly on booze there, right?
The US must have great beer at home cos what they export is piss.
German, Belgium, Holland and of course Britain brew the finest beers I've had and there all European. Wow there's a thing eh?
So it's not beer that makes them great then.

Those of you from the UK who don't have bad teeth may have an idea of where I'm coming from.

Ouchie... Thats not grooovy, baby...

;)

"In 1989, the United States had 66 billionaires and 31.5 million people living below the official poverty line. A decade later, the United States has 268 billionaires and 34.5 million people living below the poverty line–about $13,000 for a three-person family."

http://www.faireconomy.org/press/archive/1999/Divided_Decade/divided_decade.html

Nothing to brag about and nothing that makes you great

I fail to see the problem. Democratic capitalism will involved some people being immensely wealthy, and some people being desperately poor. That's the way of things. You want more, you work. It's really quite simple. Socialiasm is rather akin to a poor man robbing you at knifepoint, and justifying it with "But I've got eight crippled kids and they're all starving, and my three wives can't work because they're all pregnant!". No thanks. Rather inequality of wealth than theft.

Edit: Indeed, I would say it is a very good (Mayhap a great?) thing that the US is strong enough economically for people to be able to become that wealthy, and that it allows the level of both personal and business freedoms needed.

Ein Deutscher']Actually, there were years between the various terrorist attacks on US property or on US soil. Expect the next terrorist attack to be a nuclear bomb in some big city like New York or some biological weapon. The potential for terrorism against the US has not been decreased by Bush's actions. In fact, he has inflamed the middle east into a region of people who view the US as imperialist devil (that it is). The US has constantly lost allies from it's coalition of the willing (or bought). and how exactly does that help to reduce terrorism against the US? I'd actually say, terrorism has increased a lot, since the Iraq war. Various countries had to deal with more terrorism now - also related to participation in that war - than they had before this war.
You're right, there were years between different terrorist attacks on US soil.
The Oklahoma City bombing was in 1995. US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed in 1998. The USS Kohl was bombed in 2001 followed shortly by the suicide attacks on the Twin Towers.
So in six years, we have five attacks. I'll take out the Kohl, because it's a military target. That leaves four terrorist atacks on American soil in six years; an average of.....one attack every 1.5 years.
How many attacks on US soil has there been in the time since 9/11? It seems were overdo for two attacks.

I fail to see the problem. Democratic capitalism will involved some people being immensely wealthy, and some people being desperately poor. That's the way of things. You want more, you work. It's really quite simple. Socliam is rather akin to a poor man robbing you at knifepoint, and justifying it with "But I've got eight crippled kids and they're all starving, and my three wives can't work because they're all pregnant!". No thanks. Rather inequality of wealth than theft.
Rofl.. because all these people became ultra-poor because they are too lazy to work. Hahaha... in fact, most billionaires get their money by exploiting the working masses for their personal wealth accumulation. In that regard, I deeply hate capitalism in it's pure uncontrolled form.

You're right, there were years between different terrorist attacks on US soil.
The Oklahoma City bombing was in 1995. US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed in 1998. The USS Kohl was bombed in 2001 followed shortly by the suicide attacks on the Twin Towers.
So in six years, we have five attacks. I'll take out the Kohl, because it's a military target. That leaves four terrorist atacks on American soil in six years; an average of.....one attack every 1.5 years.
How many attacks on US soil has there been in the time since 9/11? It seems were overdo for two attacks.
Nowadays the terrorists are busy fighting the US in Iraq. But just wait until that war is finally over *smirk*

Ein Deutscher']Eggs and tomatoes seems pretty tame to what I would like to throw at Bush.

However, read this:
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/01/21/1531230


Hmm... Interesting. The article doesn't say what the woman is supposed to have done. At 2600 meetings, we can always spot the Feds as they never know how to dress.

Ein Deutscher']Actually, there were years between the various terrorist attacks on US property or on US soil. Expect the next terrorist attack to be a nuclear bomb in some big city like New York or some biological weapon. The potential for terrorism against the US has not been decreased by Bush's actions. In fact, he has inflamed the middle east into a region of people who view the US as imperialist devil (that it is). The US has constantly lost allies from it's coalition of the willing (or bought) and how exactly does that help to reduce terrorism against the US? I'd actually say, terrorism has increased a lot, since the Iraq war. Various countries had to deal with more terrorism now - also related to participation in that war - than they had before this war.

So... you're right. We should just let the terrorists do what they want to without recourse. The best defense is no defense.

also, Saddam is a hero whose reign was to be respected.

Is that what you're saying?

Fighting terrorism and deposing Saddam are GOOD DEEDS.

"In 1989, the United States had 66 billionaires and 31.5 million people living below the official poverty line. A decade later, the United States has 268 billionaires and 34.5 million people living below the poverty line?about $13,000 for a three-person family."

http://www.faireconomy.org/press/archive/1999/Divided_Decade/divided_decade.html

Nothing to brag about and nothing that makes you great
I'd say it is.
Poverty rose by 3 million people, or 9.5%.
The number of billionaires rose by 202 people, or over 300%.
The country as a whole is getting richer.
and your link doesn't work for me.....nevermind, there it goes

I would like to say one thing having to do with the topic. I see the US and all of its "faults" along with all the rest of the countries in the world as providing a unique example to the rest of the world. As is inherent with all things, any stance on a value or policy has trade-offs with other values and policies. I like to live in a country where I disagree with my goverment on many of its policies, mainly because i know that there is no absolute right, and that i therefor might be wrong. Lets take the invasion of Iraq as an example, I highly disagreed with it for a great while, and on many levels, still do, however, the euphoria experienced by a still tumultous Iraqi population has produced many good effects, which i would have said unlikely befor the elections, like a free election for the PA and the grassroots movements in lebenon against Syrian occupation. I am a stedfast feminist and adimently defend gay rights, and just the mere fact that i am able to live in this country with those who disagree with me, and participate in the democratic process makes me proud (even though it may look like i am on the minority side of things). I love the fact that i am able to experience so many vast cultures, from hickville nevada, to authentic indian, thai, chinese, Irish, and german and all within a short drive, because, as was said earlier in the forum, we import a great bit of our culture. This is why I think america is essentially "good" not because it is better, but because it is different, even, and especially, in my own country.

I love you; will you marry me?

Ein Deutscher']Nowadays the terrorists are busy fighting the US in Iraq. But just wait until that war is finally over *smirk*
That's a good thing, man!
At least the military is trained and equipped to deal with terrorist violence. The common American civilian isn't.

Ya know, you're an awfully negative person. I'm hoping when the war is over Iraq will be a stable democracy that will pressure other Middle Eastern nations to become the same. Suicide bombers will just be a memory, and women can be treated equally. I'm hoping.

You're hoping when the war is over those terrorists will migrate here to the US and start killing civilians again.

Baseball!!!!

Ein Deutscher']The US has culture? *cackle*

:rolleyes:

This opinion seems to be all present round where I live.

Somethimes I feel that I am the only that realises that it does have a culture (and admits it).

Round where I live though.

Imported, but not it's own.

And how did they import Huck Finn? (just one example of many)

So... you're right. We should just let the terrorists do what they want to without recourse. The best defense is no defense.

He's not saying that. There is a difference between defending myself from a mugger and going to his local and beating him up there because I suspect that he might mug me.

I'd say it is.
Poverty rose by 3 million people, or 9.5%.
The number of billionaires rose by 202 people, or over 300%.
The country as a whole is getting richer.

Or a few individual getting richer as the country gets poorer.

I hesitate to say which one I think is right though. Knowing little about the social history of the period.

Ein Deutscher']Rofl.. because all these people became ultra-poor because they are too lazy to work. Hahaha... in fact, most billionaires get their money by exploiting the working masses for their personal wealth accumulation. In that regard, I deeply hate capitalism in it's pure uncontrolled form.

Where is it practised in a pure, uncontrolled form?

Or a few individual getting richer as the country gets poorer.

I hesitate to say which one I think is right though. Knowing little about the social history of the period.

http://www.census.gov/hhes/income/histinc/h03ar.html
Before you ask, yes, the US Census did convert the dollar amounts to 2003 inflation. Just look at the second table.
Income has risen for all; from the poorest to the richest since 1967 and since 1990.
The rich got richer, and the poor got richer.

http://www.census.gov/hhes/income/histinc/h03ar.html
Before you ask, yes, the US Census did convert the dollar amounts to 2003 inflation. Just look at the second table.
Income has risen for all; from the poorest to the richest since 1967 and since 1990.
The rich got richer, and the poor got richer.

Only when you look at that table. Which doesn't seem to take into account cost of living etc.

btw, I'm not trying to be difficult. I fully expect the general amount of wealth to have risen.

As a matter of fact, we do have our own culture. SOmeone direct me to somehting comprable of the Southwest during the 1800s. What about Native American Culture? If you want to say all we have is imported culture, then the only culture australia has is from convicts.

and if you are not going to add anything intelligent, leave please.

Oh yeah! The Native Americans whose land you invaded, whose people you forced onto reservations, whose culture you condemned and declared illegal, whose entire society was destroyed and dismantled because you introduced currency and said it was the 'American Way'. Yes of course, I totally see you have culture...

Oh yeah! The Native Americans whose land you invaded, whose people you forced onto reservations, whose culture you condemned and declared illegal, whose entire society was destroyed and dismantled because you introduced currency and said it was the 'American Way'.

Guilt is inheirated now? Better contact the closest German and blame them for the holocaust, or go next door an verbally abuse them for the English control of Ireland :rolleyes:

Either that or you are using 'you' in its singular sence, which would be more bizarre.

Yes of course, I totally see you have culture...

Of course. Americans have a collective mind, and they all support the things that their ancestors (actually, taking all the immigration into account, their neighbours' ancestors) have done. Not one American has broken rank and done something culturally worthy (*cough*UncleTom'sCabin, MarkTwain, BobDylan,.......*cough*).

Sorry, but I don't like to eat mad cows'! ;)

carefull of getting hit by a comet cuz you have better odds getting killed by a comet or spacemen or the mighty ZEUS then eating a mad cow from alberta. :)

In 2003, according to the US Census, 12.5% of the US population was below the poverty line. Poverty is, roughly, less than $20,000/year for a family of four here in the US. Here's a table that show what it is for different ages and family sizes:
http://www.census.gov/hhes/poverty/threshld/thresh03.html
I'd like to know what's poverty, and what level it's at in Europe.


Not predestined, but black males are the cause of a disproportionate number of violent crimes here in the US.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/ageracesex.htm
When black males cause ten times the number of homicides as white males, they're going to be more severely punished.


Try speaking only for your own country. Our economy has seen a steady growth over the last few years. We've been recovering from 9/11 at a steady clip while most of Europe continues to be stagnate. Unemployment is at 5.5% here. It's 10% in France, and nearly 13% in Germany.


Since the Bush administration started aggresively hunting terrorist networks overseas with the military, there have been a decrease of terrorist attacks on US soil. During the preavious years there was the Oklahoma City bombing, embassy bombings, USS Kohl bombing, and finally the planes in the Twin Towers. Now we just have to worry about ELF on American Soil.


Another thread was taking about the "unreported" unemployed in the USA. Personally i think the idea is BS, but the USA has very limited social programs so they sure as hell better have 5% unemployment or yer fucked. Whereas Europe is better equiped for higher unemployment.


Remember though canada's is 7% and we have the European social programs as well. (alberta's is 4.5% BTW, quebec's at 10% kinda screws the over all rate, the french dislike work ;) )

Another thread was taking about the "unreported" unemployed in the USA. Personally i think the idea is BS, but the USA has very limited social programs so they sure as hell better have 5% unemployment or yer fucked. Whereas Europe is better equiped for higher unemployment.


Remember though canada's is 7% and we have the European social programs as well. (alberta's is 4.5% BTW, quebec's at 10% kinda screws the over all rate, the french dislike work ;) )
Though I can childishly say, "Our unemployment rate is better, nya-nya-nya" :P, kudos on beating most of Europe. Is 7% the norm up there? Higher than normal? Lower?
and I'd still, honestly, like to see European figures on poverty and such.

He's not saying that. There is a difference between defending myself from a mugger and going to his local and beating him up there because I suspect that he might mug me.

poor analogy

a mugger won't kill thousands of people if you let him. that type of person should be killed before he has a chance to kill said thousands of people or take part in it.

Sadly, I don't live in the US (I have to put up with crappy Britain) but, from what I know from my travelling there, the US rocks. Everything is bigger and better than over here, firearms, tazers and mace are legal so you actually protect yourself rather than going "oh no please don't mug me", and the people are so much more friendly. Plus, everything is cheaper than over here, but people earn more money on average so that standard of life is better.
Go USA!

Why is it necisarry to compare one country to another? Can't we all agree that all contries in the world have their merits and downsides? And that there is no country in the world that is "the best?" Because there really isn't...

America is very big so it has obviously more diversity. If you like the fast paced life or you want to run a big business, go to (probably) the Northeast (New York City, anyone?). If you love to be around Nature, go to the Northwest. If you want to farm, go to the middle. If you are a liberal you can go to the coasts, if you are a conservative you can go to the middle (which of course has liberals and conservatives in both place). Basically speaking, there is a place for anyone.. even if you like it cold.. go to the north or even Alaska.. if you like it hot, go to the south or Hawaii. Some states have more "Party" cities, and others are nice and calm. Though not everyone utilizes this, in America you have the potential to eat really well, with fruits and vegetables from almost anywhere in the world. There is a vast amount of technology (Thank you Japan!) for entertainment or business. You can live your life the hard way if you like physical work, or you can do work with less labor. If you don't trust some of the food here (mass produced.. hormones.. pesticides), you can at least go buy organic food or even grow your own.

And talk about some of the controversies here.. they are fascinating. Main example: Area 51. UFOs. Masonry. Trying to figure out if there are government conspiracies or even a world wide conspiracy. Makes you seek more knowledge, and because of the way I am, I love it.

I think that in general people are friendly here, as long as you treat everyone with respect. And if there is an unfriendly town, then just move maybe 20 miles away and you will be in a completely different town, with possibly a happy go lucky bunch of people.

There are lots of things to do whether it is arcades, restaraunts where you get to throw plates around (not all restaraunts, but a few restaraunts like to spice things up and will let you throw a plate or write on the wall or whatever... however do not try this if it is not allowed ^_~), or going biking or hiking on mountains and forests.


I am trying to think of other things, but I am even only a teen right now, so I haven't even got to experience everything yet.

Yeah, but there are some countries that are just better than others. I'd much rather live in the USA than Ethiopia, for example.

poor analogy

No it isn't. Take into the account the scaling down of the analogy. You may as well claim it was poor because Muslim fundies don't drink and therefore won't go to the pub.

Admittedly, the analogy was flawed. Although not for the reason you gave. It was flawed because in the analogy I knew who was threatening me and where he was. In real life, this was not the case.

a mugger won't kill thousands of people if you let him. that type of person should be killed before he has a chance to kill said thousands of people or take part in it.
Yay thought crime! Even though you have done nowt, we will kill you anyway since we think that you thought about it.

Of course, the armed forces don't know who is planning a terrorist attack. All they know is that the attacker[s] will most likely be Arab looking. Sorry but justifying the invasion of Iraq in regards to terrorism is impossible. It didn't represent a significant terrorist threat.

Of course, what you seem to be saying is, "We don't thousands of people from this country to die in a terrorist attack, therefore we are justified to go other to other countries where these attackers may or may not be from, kill thousands to prevent it." Which is slightly arrogant, since it implies people from your country are more important then people from the other country. The point of the analogy was that, just because you are at threat from a particular location you are not justified in doing the same thing to the other party that they may have done to you.

Sadly, I don't live in the US (I have to put up with crappy Britain) but, from what I know from my travelling there, the US rocks. Everything is bigger and better than over here, firearms, tazers and mace are legal so you actually protect yourself rather than going "oh no please don't mug me", and the people are so much more friendly. Plus, everything is cheaper than over here, but people earn more money on average so that standard of life is better.
Go USA!

Please move to America and maybe with less people like you here we won't have to suffer so much culture assimilation to make Britain a smaller version of America.

Really I think that writing out how good or bad a place may be doesn't always work, and if you really want to know what USA is like, visit... but I would say, at least have enough money to go to different parts. It would suuck if you went to one town and the people there were rude, so then you come back with the impression that we are rude, even though there are millions of other towns and cities that are just plain out awesome.

Though, more than anything, I just wish our countries would get along.. I mean.. if not the governments, at least it's people... I mean come on people, I can't even vote yet, I didn't do anything! I like you, why not like me?

* gives love but no love is recieved* Lol

It's good to be average. You at least seem to admit that. There are a lot people below you when you're average. Thats fine by me.

That right there is a reason why America is great. We refuse to settle for average.

Jonas Saulk didn't cure polio by being average.

Neil Armstrong didn't walk on the moon by being average.

You don't invent a system of communication that allows you to transfer the entire encyclopedia Britanica in the blink of an eye by being average.

Jimi Hendrix and Dizzie Gillespie didn't become the greatest musicians of the 20th Century by settling for average.

More reaons: Greater social mobility than any other country. ex: Bill Clinton was born to an unwed teenage mother and grew up poor most of his life. I do think he was a crappy president and an immoral man, but thats one hell of a rags to riches story.

Melting pot: From what I've seen in other countries, there are different races living next to each other, but they don't seem to blend. A Canadian I know put it this way, "Canada is a patch work, but America is a melting pot" You can see the influence of Indian, black, Hispanic, Celtic etc etc in most of our music, movies and fashion.

When we screw up, we do it big time: Ya, we have had some major clusterfucks in our history. A lot of things we shouldn't be proud of. However, we always find a way to turn them positive. At the very least, we learn from them faster than most of the world (the things that started WW1 were pretty much the things that started WW2). And of course, you can't fall too far if you don't climb too high.

The British used to have this attitude. I'm not even refering to their imperialistic days. I mean only two or three generations ago. Where if anyone (especially the Americans or Russians) accomplished something, they had to do it better or find something else to lead the way in.

Now, if what Eternal Green Rain says is the predominant attitude over there, those days are sadly long over.

You call us greedy, lazy, and obnoxious, I say we're ambitious, inventive and full of life.

Make the US Look Good :

Moby
Luther king
Clinton
Roosevelt
Jeans
Yellowstone
Black Diamond and Patagonia (altough I think that Yvon Chouinard has Canadian blood).
The North Face
Admiting that they needed Eu (German) scientists for getting somewhere in space and having the brains to use and learn from them.
California free climbing spirit.


aso
aso aso
aso aso aso

And, [NS]Ein Deutscher, you sound like you want to make your people better. Like you want to purify your race. Haven't you already been down that road?

Also, there are a few reasons why English has become such a dominant language.

1) Before it was the English and now its the American military that is everywhere. Whether for better or worse, people learn to communicate with the freigners who are coming in and overpaying for everything.

2) The modern banking system was invented in England. Follow the money

3) Commercial air travel was invented by Americans

4) Most programing languages were invented in America.

5) It adapts to words from other languages.

So, unless some major unforseen changes happen, English is going to stick around for a while.

And I doubt we are going to see Chinese, or any language where every word has its own symbol, become dominant.

And, [NS]Ein Deutscher, you sound like you want to make your people better. Like you want to purify your race. Haven't you already been down that road?


If you wish to imply that I am a Nazi, you're wrong. I am not a fan of ethnic cleansing. But I would like to see our own culture and language more respected in our own country. That's not nazi-like - it's rather a healthy pride and care for ones heritage. If you don't have that, then you deserve my pity.

Well, at least its different than the conempt you show me and my neighbors based on where I was born.

Please move to America and maybe with less people like you here we won't have to suffer so much culture assimilation to make Britain a smaller version of America.

I have a better idea: YOU get off your ass, and go out there, and revitalise BRITISH things, ok? Go and eat fish'n'ships, drink beer, and watch the soccer on TV, whilst being incredibly loudmouthed, obnoxious, and generally crass, as well as far more jingoistic than the US but, also, quieter about it (Unless you're out on the town of an evening, in which case WATCH OUT YOU NIGGERS!), and therefore very happy to condemn another nation for something you do yourself.

Oh.... wait.

I'll be glad to see the back of this place.

And w00t for Idica! =D I've done pretty much the same thing you have, and I'm moving over as soon as I can.

Finally, one thing that's not been brought up here yet: Tony Martin.

This gentleman's house was broken into, and he used his shotgun to defend himself, his home, and his property. And then he got sent to prison for it.

I'll take a country where I'm allowed to protect myself and my family, plzkthx.

That right there is a reason why America is great. We refuse to settle for average.

Jonas Saulk didn't cure polio by being average.

Neil Armstrong didn't walk on the moon by being average.

You don't invent a system of communication that allows you to transfer the entire encyclopedia Britanica in the blink of an eye by being average.

Jimi Hendrix and Dizzie Gillespie didn't become the greatest musicians of the 20th Century by settling for average.


Clarence Thomas didn't get where he was by being average:p

I have a better idea: YOU get off your ass, and go out there, and revitalise BRITISH things, ok? Go and eat fish'n'ships, drink beer, and watch the soccer on TV, whilst being [b]incredibly loudmouthed, [/v]obnoxious, and generally crass, as well as far more jingoistic than the US

True, but it seems that will all change once you leave :)

but, also, quieter about it (Unless you're out on the town of an evening, in which case WATCH OUT YOU NIGGERS!), and therefore very happy to condemn another nation for something you do yourself.[/quote]

How does one be both loudmouthed and quiet?

Yes I condemned the US over the war. However, to my knowledge, I have never marched into a Middle Eastern (or any country) and overthrown it.



I'll be glad to see the back of this place.

Farwell.

And w00t for Idica! =D I've done pretty much the same thing you have, and I'm moving over as soon as I can.

Finally, one thing that's not been brought up here yet: Tony Martin.

This gentleman's house was broken into, and he used his shotgun to defend himself, his home, and his property. And then he got sent to prison for it.

I'll take a country where I'm allowed to protect myself and my family, plzkthx.

Do you get all you news from someone frothing at the mouth, or do you actually think about the item and compare it to other sources?


Fucking southerners.