NationStates Jolt Archive

To my knowledge there has yet to be a thread on this topic. It directed towards Canadians who have a view on this matter. It has been a while since such a number died in one incedent so naturally it has had a significant impact on this country.

My question is to those who are familiar with the incedent, what actions should be taken to further ensure the safety of our police in the future.

Here is a link below
link (http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/03/03/rcmpalert050303.html)

Very very, unfortunate events for the rcmp officers families. But, on one hand it is an acceptable risk that they take,, I wish a thosand horrible deaths on the idiot who killed himself over that, and took the rcmp with him,, especially over such a minor charge, that would have resulted. But I could probably safely guess that he was fucked anyways (probably gang or organized crime related the grow op). But as I said its a very sad event for the families involved, and for the wasteful loss of life. btw a good semi-related book on this kinda topic is "Road to Hell" by Julian Sher and William Marsden.

ya this guy was messed up throughout his life 20 years in and out of the justice system, is first offence was marijuana then was first arrested for breaking into a gun shop and was also arrested for sexually assauting a young male. My view is that he should never have had that semi-automatic assault rifle.

definitly,, but whether legally or not,, he would have gotten his hands on it, which most pro-ponents of the gun registry fail to see,, registered guns rarely commit crimes,, especially when compared to 'illegal' guns.
But I am a firm believer that police should be given more funding, and really like any private organization be audited or watched by an external source,, while eliminating some of the more wasteful court cases against them (i'm sorry, for all my anti-police thoughts,, I think that a lifetime criminal should HAVE ALL human rights suspended and that they should feel damn lucky to be alive.. If your stupid enough to do the crime and get caught,, you deserve everything and than some that comes to ya.)

This really points out how little I know about what goes on in Canada. Though, for prespective, I have little idea what goes on in, say, Kansas either. I don't know if that makes it better....
definitly,, but whether legally or not,, he would have gotten his hands on it, which most pro-ponents of the gun registry fail to see,, registered guns rarely commit crimes,, especially when compared to 'illegal' guns.
Not to start a tangent, but that seems like a pretty good argument for registry. Those guns aren't being used in crimes-sounds good.

But I am a firm believer that police should be given more funding, and really like any private organization be audited or watched by an external source,, while eliminating some of the more wasteful court cases against them (i'm sorry, for all my anti-police thoughts,, I think that a lifetime criminal should HAVE ALL human rights suspended and that they should feel damn lucky to be alive.. If your stupid enough to do the crime and get caught,, you deserve everything and than some that comes to ya.)
The court cases are a function of that audit and external examination. It gives the average citizen a recourse, an avenue to legitimately defend themselves and thier rights (as apposed to killing four of them on his marijuana farm). I've said this twice today, but you can judge a society by how it treats the least of its citizens. I'm not saying coddle them, but criminality is still more complex than "You bad, get in the corner and we'll kick you til you learn." There are clear cut cases, but we can't treat all cases like a cops and robbers, good guys in white hats and bad in black situation. Often there are penalties built in to bringing a suite that is unfounded up. As stated I know bupkiss about Canada, but I imagine you'll find that there are some things in place like that. Sometimes rhetoric can make things seem like common sense and hide a more complex issue.

To my knowledge there has yet to be a thread on this topic. It directed towards Canadians who have a view on this matter. It has been a while since such a number died in one incedent so naturally it has had a significant impact on this country.

My question is to those who are familiar with the incedent, what actions should be taken to further ensure the safety of our police in the future.

Here is a link below
link (http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/03/03/rcmpalert050303.html)

I think they need to be more cautious when dealing with suspected criminals and criminal activity. While they were there to investigate a marijuana grow-op, this individual was known to police, even feared for other crimes. While hindsight is 20/20 it was a bit foolish to enter the building where they were shot without knowing who and what was inside or at least knowing where was the shooter. They were more than likely wearing bullet-proof vests but that offers only limited protection agaisnt 12 guage shot-gun blasts.

I actually had a recent debate with someone from Alberta who was convinced the solution was a witch-hunt on weed grow-ops which I beleive would only accomplish to push the practice deeper into the criminal realm for better, harder criminals. Growing marijuana is a lucrative business and it wouldn't be so lucrative if it wasn't so difficult to get away with therefore attractive to people on society's periphery as a source of income. This individual was also involved in car theft I should add.

This individual was also involved in car theft I should add.

Wasn't that the main reason why they were there in the first place not so much, because of his grow-up?

Not really clear on that. This guy was known to be involved in a lot of things. When the story broke it was made out to look as though it was simply a grow-op bust gone bad. The NY Times ran an article that blew it way out of proportion too I might add. Worthless rag IMHO.

This really points out how little I know about what goes on in Canada. Though, for prespective, I have little idea what goes on in, say, Kansas either. I don't know if that makes it better....

Not to start a tangent, but that seems like a pretty good argument for registry. Those guns aren't being used in crimes-sounds good.

To sorta continue the tangent,, the fact the registered guns wouldn't be used in crimes(for the most part, unless stolen) shows that the main purpose of the registry (easy id of who could or owns the guns used in crimes) is not being acheived. Also those guns probably wouldn't be used in crimes had there been no registry,, which would save the canadian gov't and taxpayer a load of money (not too mention the who us company managing the system, ergo US gov't having all that vital information now.)

The court cases are a function of that audit and external examination. It gives the average citizen a recourse, an avenue to legitimately defend themselves and thier rights (as apposed to killing four of them on his marijuana farm). I've said this twice today, but you can judge a society by how it treats the least of its citizens. I'm not saying coddle them, but criminality is still more complex than "You bad, get in the corner and we'll kick you til you learn." There are clear cut cases, but we can't treat all cases like a cops and robbers, good guys in white hats and bad in black situation. Often there are penalties built in to bringing a suite that is unfounded up. As stated I know bupkiss about Canada, but I imagine you'll find that there are some things in place like that. Sometimes rhetoric can make things seem like common sense and hide a more complex issue.
I understand that as you said, things arent soo clear cut, as black and white, but instead shades of grey, but even still, I think at least, especially for repeat criminals, and dangerous criminals among other high risk ones,, when they go to jail shouldn't live better than they do outside of jail. For many of the prisoner's its almost like a vacation (thats a direct quote from a guy I met through a friend who had just gotten out of a medium security jail out on the coast here) and that would tend to provide little insentive for criminals not to commit crimes. Whereas I think the jails should be alot stricter,, so as to discourage repeat criminals.

To sorta continue the tangent,, the fact the registered guns wouldn't be used in crimes(for the most part, unless stolen) shows that the main purpose of the registry (easy id of who could or owns the guns used in crimes) is not being acheived. Also those guns probably wouldn't be used in crimes had there been no registry,, which would save the canadian gov't and taxpayer a load of money (not too mention the who us company managing the system, ergo US gov't having all that vital information now.)
Well, it could also be said to discourage use, also. Not to mention that it would be preventative in cases where people shouldn't have those guns, like the guy here. When dangerous people have their guns taken before they shoot four RCMP it doesn't make the news so much, but is more effective than shooting him afterwards.

again with the tangent, sorry topic starter...

EDIT: I should clear up that when enforcement runs across guns that are not registered in the course of their work, not that they get every unregistered gun that is out there. It's just an avenue for them to be pro-active in preventing crime instead of punishing it-a handicap that is built into enforcement otherwise, you can't arrest on intent and shouldn't be able to. But you don't have to make intent easier to act on than it needs to be.

(Bump)

To my knowledge there has yet to be a thread on this topic. It directed towards Canadians who have a view on this matter. It has been a while since such a number died in one incedent so naturally it has had a significant impact on this country.

My question is to those who are familiar with the incedent, what actions should be taken to further ensure the safety of our police in the future.

Here is a link below
link (http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/03/03/rcmpalert050303.html)
There is no action that can secure anyone from determined people.

monsters like that dont deserve to live.
thats all I have to say. He's one messed up dude, and he should have been dealt with long ago. (Thats my opinion, take it or leave it because I'm not trying to offend anyone.)

... that if you make guns more difficult to obtain, that means that there are, in general far less of them out there.

speaking from Oz ... there is some gun related crime (or accidental gun deaths) here, but the numbers are so low (even taking into account a much lower population) that significance must be assigned to the fact that gun control is quite strict.

that argument of guns don't kill people, people kill people is such a bloody stupid one - surely everyone can see that it's much more difficult for a person to kill another if that person can't get their hands on a gun in the first place?

I say a little prayer for them and their families. :(