NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,12461201%255E2703,00.html
As many of us may remember, after the Iranian Revolution of 1979, when Iran's oil industries were nationalized, a huge price spike erupted, as Iran's transition severly hurted production. They have obviously increased production since then, but this goes to show one how much influence Iran has on the oil market.
Today, they are playing that same card yet again. According to Iran, if plans to refer it to the Security Concil go through, Iran will cut of its oil to Europe and the US, although I am personally unaware of shipments of Iranian oil to the US.

As for my personal feelings? I feel that it can't be better. The money it gains from oil is one of the only things that make it wealthier than some of its neighbors. Without it, the economy is nothing. Yet as we have seen, sentiment against the ruling aylotollahs lie just below the surface. The self-induced collapse of the Iranian economy may spark a revolution. Ensuring a new government suceeds is too long of a subject to talk about in this thread, buut at least outsiders may have a chance to secure nuclear materials.

iran maybe will harmed by that act, but they could make great raises of the oil price, and harm the whole modern world. if they do that, USA will really had good reason to invade iran.

It's so nice to see that not every one in the world allows themselves to be bullied by the United States. Kudos Iran!

I wouldn't mind a sneak preview of the world as it will be after the oil peak

Damn oil. I can't wait till people find a suitable replacement.

It's so nice to see that not every one in the world allows themselves to be bullied by the United States. Kudos Iran!


Bullied? If anything Iran is the bully, Iran has no need for Nukes, as there is no nation bordering it that poses a threat to it. I still commend the US for being the World Police Force, at least someone is saying "No!" to those extremists.

I hope the Iran does something stupid soon...just so i can see a revolution/invasion take over, and Democracy triumph again.

It's so nice to see that not every one in the world allows themselves to be bullied by the United States. Kudos Iran!
And you wonder why people don't like you. This is the same country that jails bloggers and whips children. Lets not forget the execution of prostitutes and those who would openly stand against them.

Damn oil. I can't wait till people find a suitable replacement.

I'm burning wood right now. :D

Bullied? If anything Iran is the bully, Iran has no need for Nukes, as there is no nation bordering it that poses a threat to it. I still commend the US for being the World Police Force, at least someone is saying "No!" to those extremists.

I hope the Iran does something stupid soon...just so i can see a revolution/invasion take over, and Democracy triumph again.


Apparently, the USA is posing a threat to it..

Bullied? If anything Iran is the bully, Iran has no need for Nukes, as there is no nation bordering it that poses a threat to it. I still commend the US for being the World Police Force, at least someone is saying "No!" to those extremists.

I hope the Iran does something stupid soon...just so i can see a revolution/invasion take over, and Democracy triumph again.
I'm the opposite on the World Police issue. I don't think it's alright that the US is going around picking fights with everyone. The US has a big nose and it's poking around in everybody's business.

Apparently, the USA is posing a threat to it..


The worst the US would do is knock out their facilities...if Iran starts messing with the oil, then they can expect something worse, With Afghanistan and Iraq loosenng up, they could have the capabilitie of invading and occupying Iran for a while...then again it would be costly, so the US will have to think of another way.

I'm the opposite on the World Police issue. I don't think it's alright that the US is going around picking fights with everyone. The US has a big nose and it's poking around in everybody's business.

So i guess the police have no business arresting Drug Lords and Thugs then?

The worst the US would do is knock out their facilities...if Iran starts messing with the oil, then they can expect something worse, With Afghanistan and Iraq loosenng up, they could have the capabilitie of invading and occupying Iran for a while...then again it would be costly, so the US will have to think of another way.


So i guess the police have no business arresting Drug Lords and Thugs then?


Whatever you like it or not, the Iranian oil is well..Iranian. They have the right to cut the exports all togheter, if they want to (and stop receiving income for that). Should the USA attack them for that, then the USA is not just a bully, it will be a thief.

And who the hell appointed the USA the "police"? The cops take their authority from the law, not from force, which is the only place where the USA derives its "authority"

Whatever you like it or not, the Iranian oil is well..Iranian. They have the right to cut the exports all togheter, if they want to (and stop receiving income for that). Should the USA attack them for that, then the USA is not just a bully, it will be a thief.

And who the hell appointed the USA the "police"? The cops take their authority from the law, not from force, which is the only place where the USA derives its "authority"


Your right Iran can cut off it's oil for no reason, but since it could harm the US they would have a right to react and force them to export their oil to them again. Should the US attack because of that, well...i can't think of a word, but they would neither be a bully or thief.

Noone appointed them, but it is assumed they get to the be the Police, as they have the capabilities of being so. The UK and France could also be so if they wanted to, i don't see France helping the Ivory Coast.. or in Togo.

Plus are the Iraqi's complaining? The Afghanis? They seem to be thanking more then hating.

Your right Iran can cut off it's oil for no reason, but since it could harm the US they would have a right to react and force them to export their oil to them again. Should the US attack because of that, well...i can't think of a word, but they would neither be a bully or thief.

So, if it is against the material interest of the USA, it is EVIL AND GOD COMMANDS THAT IT CAN NOT STAND! I think the word you are trying to find is extortion.. you are extorting the Iranians.


Noone appointed them, but it is assumed they get to the be the Police, as they have the capabilities of being so. The UK and France could also be so if they wanted to, i don't see France helping the Ivory Coast.. or in Togo.

So, since China is a big superpower, they also get the right to be a "police"? Oh boy, the Japanese and the people from Taiwan must be very happy about it! On the other side, please don't explain your reasoning the your local gang members and criminals, they might decide to "police" your purse.

And there are French Peacekeepers in Ivory Coast. How many peacekeepers the USA has in the world?


Plus are the Iraqi's complaining? The Afghanis? They seem to be thanking more then hating.

Actually, they seem to be dying more than thanking..

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,12461201%255E2703,00.html
As many of us may remember, after the Iranian Revolution of 1979, when Iran's oil industries were nationalized, a huge price spike erupted, as Iran's transition severly hurted production. They have obviously increased production since then, but this goes to show one how much influence Iran has on the oil market.
Today, they are playing that same card yet again. According to Iran, if plans to refer it to the Security Concil go through, Iran will cut of its oil to Europe and the US, although I am personally unaware of shipments of Iranian oil to the US.

As for my personal feelings? I feel that it can't be better. The money it gains from oil is one of the only things that make it wealthier than some of its neighbors. Without it, the economy is nothing. Yet as we have seen, sentiment against the ruling aylotollahs lie just below the surface. The self-induced collapse of the Iranian economy may spark a revolution. Ensuring a new government suceeds is too long of a subject to talk about in this thread, buut at least outsiders may have a chance to secure nuclear materials.


And about this.. well, Iran signed a deal some time ago to sell Oil to the Chinese. Yep, the big dragon is eating up lots of oil, and it agreed to buy Iranian oil, paying in cash, and in military equip, so their economy might not suffer much if they stop selling to the west.

Thankfully, the ayatollahs are dumb asses, with or without good economy, their people is growing discontent by the years.. wait some time, and the regime will collapse, becoming totally rotten. Just wait.

I think the word you are trying to find is extortion.. you are extorting the Iranians.
Actually, we would be extorting the Iranian mullahs who in turn are extorting the Iranian people.

Your right Iran can cut off it's oil for no reason, but since it could harm the US they would have a right to react and force them to export their oil to them again. Should the US attack because of that, well...i can't think of a word, but they would neither be a bully or thief.

I find it very fascinating that you think it ok for a nation to invade another so that they can force them to provide material benefits to them. True, that is the reason why most nations invade others (resources typically), but it is very much like taking a shotgun and forcing a storekeeper to sell you his goods after he refused because you used to break his windows or smear them with soap. Petty perhaps, but it applies to both parties no?


Noone appointed them, but it is assumed they get to the be the Police, as they have the capabilities of being so. The UK and France could also be so if they wanted to, i don't see France helping the Ivory Coast.. or in Togo.

So if your neighbor has a fair sized arsenal, he can 'police' your neighborhood? It's very simple to see this in a context of self-percieved fairness. Just assume that your house is a nation. And that your community is the world. Now translate the world events into community sized versions. It helps keep perspective.


Plus are the Iraqi's complaining? The Afghanis? They seem to be thanking more then hating.

Already stated by someone else. Their dying more than anything else. Suffering too if you want to come to that.

So, if it is against the material interest of the USA, it is EVIL AND GOD COMMANDS THAT IT CAN NOT STAND! I think the word you are trying to find is extortion.. you are extorting the Iranians.

Actually, we would be extorting the Iranian mullahs who in turn are extorting the Iranian people.

Bookworm summed it up nicely.

So, since China is a big superpower, they also get the right to be a "police"? Oh boy, the Japanese and the people from Taiwan must be very happy about it! On the other side, please don't explain your reasoning the your local gang members and criminals, they might decide to "police" your purse.

China can go ahead and try...but one must wonder, why haven't they been able to do it? Oh yeah...Cause China has a crappy Navy, and doesn't have the financial capability of even invading a country using it's army. Maybe that's why....

And there are French Peacekeepers in Ivory Coast. How many peacekeepers the USA has in the world?

I guess we better look at Iraq, Afghanistan and South Korea. How many reservists do the Americans have? 600k approx? Your right..i forget that France is in the Ivory.

Actually, they seem to be dying more than thanking.

Ahh...i'll be sure to tell that to all the Afghani's and Iraqi's that are dying from the terrorists because of the US. Oh wait... the numbers are dwindling down... i guess they are thanking them then.

I find it very fascinating that you think it ok for a nation to invade another so that they can force them to provide material benefits to them. True, that is the reason why most nations invade others (resources typically), but it is very much like taking a shotgun and forcing a storekeeper to sell you his goods after he refused because you used to break his windows or smear them with soap. Petty perhaps, but it applies to both parties no?

True, but oil is a necessary part, plus as an added bonus we would get rid of a Despot and liberate another country. They might do it out of greed, but as long as the greed helps the world i don't care.

So if your neighbor has a fair sized arsenal, he can 'police' your neighborhood? It's very simple to see this in a context of self-percieved fairness. Just assume that your house is a nation. And that your community is the world. Now translate the world events into community sized versions. It helps keep perspective.

Well if my community is the world..and my house is the nation, it must be assumed that the person with the weapon is the police to make sure that other nations don't go nuts. So...where's the problem again?

Already stated by someone else. Their dying more than anything else. Suffering too if you want to come to that.

To repeat, Ahh...i'll be sure to tell that to all the Afghani's and Iraqi's that are dying from the terrorists because of the US. Oh wait... the numbers are dwindling down... i guess they are thanking them then.

It's so nice to see that not every one in the world allows themselves to be bullied by the United States. Kudos Iran!
If Iran never had such a program, then the US or Europe may have never started. Relations between Iran and the rest of the world were improving before, and even a bit after 9/11. They did, after all, play a big and constructive role in Afghanistan. Then they blew it.

True, but oil is a necessary part, plus as an added bonus we would get rid of a Despot and liberate another country. They might do it out of greed, but as long as the greed helps the world i don't care.

Helps in what manner? As I understand it, chaos and deprivation is still a significant factor there. As for getting rid of Despots, well, I'm given to understand that it has been pointed out in this forum that the US has installed various despots in the past, so long as they were US-friendly despots. I also understand that that a democratically elected president was removed by US involvement, only to be replaced by a dictator.

Let us be honest. The US is no bastion of purity or 'democracy'. It is a nation. One with significant interests in arranging matters of the world so that it benefits it directly. Any other nation does this but the US self promotion of 'righteousness' and 'democracy' is rather hypocritical, a factor that doubly increases the dislike of the nation.

Unless of course you say that blatant hypocritics are admirable, to which I have nothing to say to.

To my understanding, the United States, in this case the leaders, have a priority of serving the following in this order.

1: Themselves,
2: Their friends/supporters.
3: Their country
4: Their citizen (don't confuse this with 3. Their not the same.)
5: The rest of the world (maybe)

Well if my community is the world..and my house is the nation, it must be assumed that the person with the weapon is the police to make sure that other nations don't go nuts. So...where's the problem again?

So if your neighbor comes over to your house with a shotgun and tells you to sell him your family heirlooms for a penny a piece, you don't have any problems with it? Or if he wants to set up a coal factory in your backyard and employ your kids in highly dangerous situations with minimal pay? Certainly, the added income would be nice, and the infrastructure too, but that is only if your stuck thinking in the short run.

How about if he starts telling you how to treat your children and family? Or if he chooses to 'replace' you with somebody more suitable?

Remember, you must not think of yourself as the house owner with the shotgun. That is a skewed view. Place yourself in the shoes of both people.

Now of course for this example, i must now view myself as the one with the shotgun. I see the neighborhood and i think to myself, how can I make it benefit me? Or if your naive enough to believe that it is viewed through a sense of strong 'righteousness', then how can I shape my neighborhood to suit MY utopian views?

Strong emphasis on the my here because that is what is happening. The coercion of a singular entities views on a wide scale. Much like taking a round peg and fitting it in every hole of every shape and size. And if it doesn't fit, hammer it in until it fits.

Can you truly call such an act 'spreading democracy'? I was given to understand that the basic concept was to allow choice. Forcing a choice is no choice at all. It is somewhat like saying 'take it...or else'.

I do not condemn the American people or the nation itself. What I condemn is its policies of oppressive and irresponsible self serving while hiding it behind a veil of deception.

To repeat, Ahh...i'll be sure to tell that to all the Afghani's and Iraqi's that are dying from the terrorists because of the US. Oh wait... the numbers are dwindling down... i guess they are thanking them then.

And the US is not responsible for civilian casualties whatsoever? I know that they don't usually publish things like that in American news sources (civilian casualties caused by US forces), but surely you are mature enough to understand that their hands aren't exactly clean of innocent blood.

However, I very much doubt I can change your mind nor do I want to. Such an act would very much make me as hypocritical as the very policies I dislike. What I wish to do, is to see if you acknowledge that there may be some truth to my words. And that in itself, is enough.

Damn oil. I can't wait till people find a suitable replacement.
That will happen with actions like this.

And about this.. well, Iran signed a deal some time ago to sell Oil to the Chinese. Yep, the big dragon is eating up lots of oil, and it agreed to buy Iranian oil, paying in cash, and in military equip, so their economy might not suffer much if they stop selling to the west.

China does buy some oil directly from Iran, but not as much as Iran ships westward. The Chinese may buy more oil from Iran, but it isn't exactly feasible due to its geography. The Chinese are more interested in buying oil from Indonesia and Russia, which are much closer. In addition, it wants to see if it can increase domestic production.