Down System
06-03-2005, 06:29
I've decided to start up this thread in relation to the "Why people on here attack America and Americans" thread. Seeing as Eutrusca seems to think people attack America based on a sense of insecurity (all over). I couldn't be bothered to scroll through over 20 pages of what was obviously a lot of flaming. For those who missed the opening post, here it is:
I realize that many of the rabid anti-Americans on here are going to post enlightening things like: "'Cause Americans are stupid!" or "'Cause you keep attacking other countries!" or "'Cause American soldiers are all trigger-happy!" or similar strangeness. But I, for one, have been pondering just why so many of the posters on here truly seem to hate America and Americans.
Here are some of the reasons I believe thre are so many on here who post knee-jerk anti-Americanism:
1. We make a good target. Anyone on top in any field of endeavour is automatically highly visible. Attacking them is easy and fun for those with lesser achievements.
2. Differing opinions on the response to 9/11. 9/11 was a wake-up call for America. It was seen as an unwarranted attack on innocent civilians and totally unprovoked. Traditionally, America is quick to respond to this sort of thing ( see Peral Harbor ). Many who post on here apparently agree with the position presented to me by a foreign national almost immediately after 9/11: "Just forget it and move on." This is not the way America responds to attacks on its civilians on its own soil.
3. Envy. Many of the anti_american posters on here are from nations which have been superpowers in the past: Germany, France, Russia, even Great Britain. There is a degree of envy at the impact America and American actions have on their own countries at this point in time, witness the so-called "cultural imperialism" allegations. This is most often used by Germans ( who tried their damndest to conquer the entire world! ), and French ( who managed to reach Moscow before the weather decimated them ). Which is worse, taking over another country by force, or taking over a portion of another country's culture by offering good products and services at a reasonable price?
4. Resentment at having America presume to advocate a better form of government ( democracy ) for people who have been unable to attain it for themselves.
5. Fear that America is finally recognizing that its influence and power are capable of changing the world. I've noted that some on here who claim that America is trying to establish an empire seem to fear that, now that America is hitting her stride, their own country will be somehow "taken over." This despite the fact that America has never kept territory from any of the nations she defeated, other than a few small islands for naval and airforce bases, which were used to defend other nations.
These are some of the reasons I see for anti-Americansim. This thread is not suppose to be flame-bait, but rather just the perspective of one American on this issue. Please at least try to present your arguments in a calm, logical, reasoned manner, rather than simply saying something along the lines of "America sucks!"
So in response, I'm going to basically going to give the reasons why I don't particulary like America in this point in time.
Iraq. That one seems pretty straightfoward, but it is deeper than that. I did not like the obvious lies in the justification for invading. Since America has officially given up looking for WMDs. Yes Iraq did have biological weapons which Saddam Hussein used on the Kurds and the Iranis. But to believe that Iraq did in fact have nuclear weapons, or for that matter, chemical and biological weapons that could reach as far as the United States is a blatant lie.
Not to mention my favourite fabrication, the Iraq - Al-Qadea link. For Saddam Hussein to convert with Al-Qaeda, he would no longer be in total control. He would be in a partnership, losing his dictator's posistion. He would be giving up control to Osama Bin Laden. He would have no power to say, "No you cannot do this or that" because he has given up complete control. Would you trust a nihilistic fundamentalist terrorist with going along with your plan? I don't think so. Not to mention that Saddam Hussien and Al-Qaeda have some conflicts in their ideologies. Saddam Hussien was a socialist in some aspects, he treated Islamic leaders quite harshly and Osama bin Laden had indeed called Saddam Hussein "The Socialist Infidel".
My point about all this is, that for a so-called democracy, many lies were being fed to the general public concerning reasons to invade Iraq. There is also a huge amount of arrogance in the USA's ideology that they invade other countries to help it's citizens, while they endorsed such dictators in Latin America and South Vietnam. I do not like that double standard that the US has developed.
I dislike the fact that the majority of politicians are rich, male, white and straight. How are their views supporting the opposite end of the spectrum who are just as abundant (if not more) in population? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
Note that I am mainly talking about the government. I have nothing against it's people, as most are reasonably left-wing. But I will still hold nothing but contempt for the present government, and many of the previous.
Those are just some of the reasons I dislike the United States. These are just opinions, but I think they are rational and logical in approach, don't you? I could say "America sucks" but I'd rather just say that the government does.
I realize that many of the rabid anti-Americans on here are going to post enlightening things like: "'Cause Americans are stupid!" or "'Cause you keep attacking other countries!" or "'Cause American soldiers are all trigger-happy!" or similar strangeness. But I, for one, have been pondering just why so many of the posters on here truly seem to hate America and Americans.
Here are some of the reasons I believe thre are so many on here who post knee-jerk anti-Americanism:
1. We make a good target. Anyone on top in any field of endeavour is automatically highly visible. Attacking them is easy and fun for those with lesser achievements.
2. Differing opinions on the response to 9/11. 9/11 was a wake-up call for America. It was seen as an unwarranted attack on innocent civilians and totally unprovoked. Traditionally, America is quick to respond to this sort of thing ( see Peral Harbor ). Many who post on here apparently agree with the position presented to me by a foreign national almost immediately after 9/11: "Just forget it and move on." This is not the way America responds to attacks on its civilians on its own soil.
3. Envy. Many of the anti_american posters on here are from nations which have been superpowers in the past: Germany, France, Russia, even Great Britain. There is a degree of envy at the impact America and American actions have on their own countries at this point in time, witness the so-called "cultural imperialism" allegations. This is most often used by Germans ( who tried their damndest to conquer the entire world! ), and French ( who managed to reach Moscow before the weather decimated them ). Which is worse, taking over another country by force, or taking over a portion of another country's culture by offering good products and services at a reasonable price?
4. Resentment at having America presume to advocate a better form of government ( democracy ) for people who have been unable to attain it for themselves.
5. Fear that America is finally recognizing that its influence and power are capable of changing the world. I've noted that some on here who claim that America is trying to establish an empire seem to fear that, now that America is hitting her stride, their own country will be somehow "taken over." This despite the fact that America has never kept territory from any of the nations she defeated, other than a few small islands for naval and airforce bases, which were used to defend other nations.
These are some of the reasons I see for anti-Americansim. This thread is not suppose to be flame-bait, but rather just the perspective of one American on this issue. Please at least try to present your arguments in a calm, logical, reasoned manner, rather than simply saying something along the lines of "America sucks!"
So in response, I'm going to basically going to give the reasons why I don't particulary like America in this point in time.
Iraq. That one seems pretty straightfoward, but it is deeper than that. I did not like the obvious lies in the justification for invading. Since America has officially given up looking for WMDs. Yes Iraq did have biological weapons which Saddam Hussein used on the Kurds and the Iranis. But to believe that Iraq did in fact have nuclear weapons, or for that matter, chemical and biological weapons that could reach as far as the United States is a blatant lie.
Not to mention my favourite fabrication, the Iraq - Al-Qadea link. For Saddam Hussein to convert with Al-Qaeda, he would no longer be in total control. He would be in a partnership, losing his dictator's posistion. He would be giving up control to Osama Bin Laden. He would have no power to say, "No you cannot do this or that" because he has given up complete control. Would you trust a nihilistic fundamentalist terrorist with going along with your plan? I don't think so. Not to mention that Saddam Hussien and Al-Qaeda have some conflicts in their ideologies. Saddam Hussien was a socialist in some aspects, he treated Islamic leaders quite harshly and Osama bin Laden had indeed called Saddam Hussein "The Socialist Infidel".
My point about all this is, that for a so-called democracy, many lies were being fed to the general public concerning reasons to invade Iraq. There is also a huge amount of arrogance in the USA's ideology that they invade other countries to help it's citizens, while they endorsed such dictators in Latin America and South Vietnam. I do not like that double standard that the US has developed.
I dislike the fact that the majority of politicians are rich, male, white and straight. How are their views supporting the opposite end of the spectrum who are just as abundant (if not more) in population? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
Note that I am mainly talking about the government. I have nothing against it's people, as most are reasonably left-wing. But I will still hold nothing but contempt for the present government, and many of the previous.
Those are just some of the reasons I dislike the United States. These are just opinions, but I think they are rational and logical in approach, don't you? I could say "America sucks" but I'd rather just say that the government does.