NationStates Jolt Archive

Because the heritage poll was broken, let's nominate the options for a better poll. Here is my suggestion, based on, in this priority: the languages (from an European perspective), the cultures, and only then geography:

British Isles (English, Scottish, Irish)
Mediterranean (French, Italian, Spanish)
German (Swiss, German, Dutch)
Scandivian (Swedish, Danish, Norwegian)
Slavic (Russian, Polish, Bulgarian)
Fennic or Ugric (Finnish, Estonian, Hungarian) *1
African
East Asian *2
West Asian, Caucasian *3
Other

*1 Should we call this Uralic? If there is anyone with a Samoyedic heritage, post it now!
*2 The Japanese are NOT going to like this.
*3 I'm not sure which heritages are included. Turkish, Arabic, Indian?

Note: this is not meant to evenly represent the world, but the forum.

Also, the classification of Ugric with Fennic has nothing to do with culture and everything to do with language. But, just think it thru: what else has kept us separate from the other groups if not language? Hungarians chose to keep their language while the society was dominated by German. The Irish chose to abandon their language when English dominated. The result is there: the Hungarians speak Hungarian, the Irish speak - English. Mostly.

Any ideas where to classify Greek? Mediterranean?

EDIT: How about the merger of Scandinavian and Germanic? That's at least language-wise justifiable. This would allow a "South Asian" option to be added.

EDIT 2: Yes, it will be a multiple-choice poll.

Indians, Sri Lankans, Nepalese, Pakistanis and Bengalis (as in people from Bangladesh :p) are usually called South Asian, but I don't have a problem with being classed West Asian. Caucasian is a bit blurry as lots, but not ALL eople from that region are Caucasian obviously.

I wouldn't do it as a poll, I'd just ask personally, since people see these things differently!

Indians, Sri Lankans, Nepalese, Pakistanis and Bengalis (as in people from Bangladesh :p) are usually called South Asian, but I don't have a problem with being classed West Asian. Caucasian is a bit blurry as lots, but not ALL eople from that region are Caucasian obviously.
That's true.

One problem I see is that no one voted for Arabic - there is no need for such an option in the poll. But which group that be classified into? "Caucasian"?

I wouldn't do it as a poll, I'd just ask personally, since people see these things differently!
True, but the damage has been done, because there was the broken poll.

You could always do it by language groups? :p Although almost everyone will be Indo-European...

You could always do it by language groups? :p Although almost everyone will be Indo-European...
Yep, but the problem is that the "Indo-European" option would have little to do with culture, from the European perspective at least. When people talk about "heritage", it's usually about both culture and language.

Because we can expect a lot of voters with heritage from IE-speaking peoples, we can afford to differentiate further. (The fact that my writing right here in this message is in an Indo-European language sort of illustrates the point.)

It should be one of those polls where you can check more than one box.

I think you may need to include Native Americans somewhere, we have a few on these forums.
Also, what will you do about mongrels? multi option or just choose your dominant culture?

I think you may need to include Native Americans somewhere, we have a few on these forums.

That's true, but how? Do we merge German and Scandinavian?

And how about the other natives? (The European Sámi, the Ainu in Japan and Australian aboriginals for example.)

Also, what will you do about mongrels? multi option or just choose your dominant culture?
Didn't you read the message? Multi-option.

Well, you're never really going to be able to get all the possible ethnicities in there. For example, you're missing Jewish, Arabic, Native American, and Polynesian, amongst others. But considering the heavy America/England/Australia bias of this forum, your best bet is probably what you've got, more or less.

How are people determining their ethnicity for this poll? Is this going to be another forum of Nintendo-playing, Coca-cola drinking English speakers born and raised in Tennessee trying to tell me that they are half-Maori half-Swiss?

How are people determining their ethnicity for this poll? Is this going to be another forum of Nintendo-playing, Coca-cola drinking English speakers born and raised in Tennessee trying to tell me that they are half-Maori half-Swiss?

Well, as it says "heritage", I would imagine it would mean the ethnicity of your ancestry.

Aha. I hope "monkey" is an option.

Aha. I hope "monkey" is an option.

I wonder if anyone's got their family tree traced back that far....

Oriental and Asian.

Probably not. I'm just assuming. For people who disagree, the second option could be "dust/rib".

Probably not. I'm just assuming. For people who disagree, the second option could be "dust/rib".

How about "amino acid"?

people from Belgium and the netherlands aren't called Dutch but ok :D

British Isles (English, Scottish, Irish)
Seperate the Irish out. I don't want to be counted as british

Well unless you still speak Gaelic...

Well unless you still speak Gaelic...
My grandfather can
I can't but I wish to learn

Because the heritage poll was broken, let's nominate the options for a better poll. Here is my suggestion, based on, in this priority: the languages (from an European perspective), the cultures, and only then geography:

British Isles (English, Scottish, Irish)
Mediterranean (French, Italian, Spanish)
German (Swiss, German, Dutch)
Scandivian (Swedish, Danish, Norwegian)
Slavic (Russian, Polish, Bulgarian)
Fennic or Ugric (Finnish, Estonian, Hungarian) *1
African
East Asian *2
West Asian, Caucasian *3
Other

*1 Should we call this Uralic? If there is anyone with a Samoyedic heritage, post it now!
*2 The Japanese are NOT going to like this.
*3 I'm not sure which heritages are included. Turkish, Arabic, Indian?

Note: this is not meant to evenly represent the world, but the forum.

Also, the classification of Ugric with Fennic has nothing to do with culture and everything to do with language. But, just think it thru: what else has kept us separate from the other groups if not language? Hungarians chose to keep their language while the society was dominated by German. The Irish chose to abandon their language when English dominated. The result is there: the Hungarians speak Hungarian, the Irish speak - English. Mostly.

Any ideas where to classify Greek? Mediterranean?

EDIT: How about the merger of Scandinavian and Germanic? That's at least language-wise justifiable. This would allow a "South Asian" option to be added.

EDIT 2: Yes, it will be a multiple-choice poll.
You're not going to include American English??? :D

Seperate the Irish out. I don't want to be counted as british
Same here.
Agus sea, is féidir liom Gaeilge a labhairt.

And yes, I am able to speak Irish (Gaeilge)

Seperate the Irish out. I don't want to be counted as british

good, cos i'd hate to be counted with the irish.

Seperate the Irish out. I don't want to be counted as british
Yeah, but how? There are 9 options, plus "Other". We shouldn't be looking for new ways to separate the included options, but the exact opposite.

The problem with separating the Irish is that I try to find the cultural boundaries. Let's say, if we take the typical American case, that an Irishman, a Scot and an Englishman left for America. Would they be leaving radically different societies, speaking radically different languages, having a completely different skin color?

Interestingly, I think we can drop "African". In the previous poll, only one (Helioterra) voted "African". (If Helioterra was serious, it's truly a coincidence, having African ancestry in the whitest country in the world.) On the other hand, does this mean that there are no African-Americans on NationStates?


British Isles (English, Scottish, Irish)
Mediterranean (French, Italian, Spanish)
German (Swiss, German, Dutch)
Scandivian (Swedish, Danish, Norwegian)
Slavic (Russian, Polish, Bulgarian)
Uralic lang. (Finnish, Estonian, Hungarian)
East Asian (Chinese, Japanese)
West Asian, Caucasian (Indian, Arabic)
(African?)
Other

Any ideas where to classify Greek? Mediterranean?
Hellenic? Romance?

Well, you're never really going to be able to get all the possible ethnicities in there. For example, you're missing Jewish, Arabic, Native American, and Polynesian, amongst others. But considering the heavy America/England/Australia bias of this forum, your best bet is probably what you've got, more or less.
In order: Judaism is a religion, the Jews have been living in their respective societies, and the language was dead for some time, thus it's not an ethnicity, except if you ask Hitler. No one voted for Arabic. Native American would be justifiable. Polynesian is "Other".

We could also have two "Others", which would they be? I'm thinking "Other" and "Other aboriginal". Like, the Native Americans and the Sámi would be latter. But, that'd waste the Native American-specific vote.

Well, I'm glad people are giving you some problems with this. It makes me feel better about my attempt. Good luck though! I also think the poll should definitely be public.

As a person of Irish decent, I would resent having to choose British Isles. Celtic would be more to my liking.

As a person of Irish decent, I would resent having to choose British Isles. Celtic would be more to my liking.
good rebutle, I'm glad you came up with an alternative response, cause that seems to be the popular demand, and none of us had that idea, or if we did we didn't say anything.

What about Celtic and Gaelic?

good rebutle, I'm glad you came up with an alternative response, cause that seems to be the popular demand, and none of us had that idea, or if we did we didn't say anything.

There were seven Celtic nations. I can't remember them all, but; Ireland, Scotland, and the Isle of Mann are three I can remember. I think Brittany and or Normandy possible Whales. Sorry, have to do some research on this. :(

There were seven Celtic nations. I can't remember them all, but; Ireland, Scotland, and the Isle of Mann are three I can remember. I think Brittany and or Normandy possible Whales. Sorry, have to do some research on this. :(
I knew that, it just didn't come to mind.

Got it. Scotland, Wales. Cornwall, Isle of Man, Spain, Brittany, and Ireland.

Go to www.ask.com and type "Celtic Nations"

this list is categorized by geography; the area where the ethnic group first emerged as a distinct people is where they are listed.

in no particular order:


Europe:

Germanic (includes Anglo-Saxon)

French/"Gaulish"

"Gaelic" (Irish and Scottish)
"Brythonic" (Welsh, Cornish and Bretonic)

Iberian (not including Basque)
Italian
Slavic
Baltic (not including Estonian)
Hellenic

Finno-Ugric (Finns/Suomi, Magyar/Hungarian, and Estonian)

Basque/Euskara


Africa and the Middle East:

Arabic
Berber
Jewish

Iranian


Bantu/sub-saharan African (?)


Caucasus:

Armenian
"Caucasian" (a member of an ethnic group that speaks a Caucasian language)


Asia:

Afghan (Iranian group in Central Asia)
Pashtun (Iranian group in Central Asia)

Turkic
North "South Asian" (:confused: "Aryan" may be the most correct term)
Dravidian (South Indian)
Han
Manchurian (?)
Japanese
Khmer
Thai
Malay


Americas:

Quechua/"Incan"
"Native American" (an exhaustive list would be.... exhausting.)
"Eskimo" (Inuit, Yupik)

"Latino"/"Mestizo" (mixed European and Amerindian)


Oceania/Pacific:

"Aboriginal Australian"

Maori
Polynesian
Hawaiian

What about Celtic and Gaelic?

Celtic is the ethnic background, Gaelic is the language. That would be like saying English and English.

I really think to do this you are going to have several surveys to narrow it all down. You will have to start out very wide, such as;

Eastern European
Western European
Asian
Middle Eastern
African
North American
South American
Australia/New Zealand
Other (please specify)

Then depending on the response, narrow that down by region. For example if you get no responses from African or South American, you could eliminate that category on the next round.

This isn't going to be easy dude.

First, a comment on this:

Finno-Ugric (Finns/Suomi, Magyar/Hungarian, and Estonian)

"Suomi" is "Finland". The native ethnonym is like the "-er" was added (as in New York-er): suomalaiset (plural). In Finnish, language names and ethnonyms are not capitalized. As far as I know, magyar is "Hungarian" (singular).

Another problem is that there is no such ethnicity as "Finno-Ugric", it's only a language group. (Uralic language speakers are known to live in just about all of the possible types of societies in Europe and their ancestry is unrelated: nomadic Asian-type Nenets in Siberia, Finland the whitest country in the world, and Turkish-, or German-type Hungarians in Hungary.) But, if we split the group, we'll run out of poll options.

Fennic has to be included in any case, because I was surprised how common a Finnish ancestry was.


Germanic (includes Anglo-Saxon)

Grouping all the Germanic peoples together we'd get two extra options, but would that be too much? It'd allow a Celtic option to be added, if we only grouped English with German, or German with Scandinavian. Which is better? Opinions?


French/"Gaulish"
Iberian (not including Basque)
Italian
Hellenic
Would anyone mind a grouping of these into "Romance/Mediterranean"?


Slavic
Baltic (not including Estonian)

Ah, Balto-Slavic, not Slavic. Good point.


Basque/Euskara
Bantu/sub-saharan African
Berber
Aboriginal Australian
Maori
Polynesian
Hawaiian

These go into "Other". No one voted for African.


Arabic
Armenian
Caucasian
Iranian (Afghan, Pashtun)
Turkic
Dravidian
Aryan

These are "West Asian/Caucasian"


Jewish

Is this an ethnicity at all, or is it a religion?


Han
Manchurian
Japanese
Khmer
Thai
Malay

These are "East Asian".


Quechua/"Incan"
"Native American"
"Eskimo" (Inuit, Yupik)
"Latino"/"Mestizo"

This would be "Native American".

So far, the list is this:
Celtic (Scottish, Irish, Welsh, Cornish, Bretonic)
Romance/Mediterranean (French, Italian, Iberian, Greek)
Germanic (Anglo-Saxon, Swiss, German, Flemish)
Scandivian (Swedish, Danish, Norwegian)
Balto-Slavic (Lithuanian, Latvian, Russian, Polish, Bulgarian)
Uralic lang. (Finnish, Estonian, Hungarian)
East Asian (Chinese, Japanese)
West Asian, Caucasian (Indian, Arabic)
Native American
Other

Another version:
Anglo-Saxon (English)
Celtic (Scottish, Irish, Welsh, Cornish, Bretonic)
Romance/Mediterranean (French, Italian, Iberian, Greek)
Germanic (Swiss, German, Flemish, Scandivian)
Balto-Slavic (Lithuanian, Latvian, Russian, Polish, Bulgarian)
Uralic lang. (Finnish, Estonian, Hungarian)
East Asian (Chinese, Japanese)
West Asian, Caucasian (Indian, Arabic)
Native American
Other

Another method is to drop the "Other" option and ask for a post.

I really think to do this you are going to have several surveys to narrow it all down.
This isn't going to work, I think. This method assumes that we're confined, that is, the same people vote in each round. This isn't true. Then, the numbers of voters are so small that the error caused by one vote is so large that it'd twist the process randomly. I also think that it'd result in an accumulation to the "Other" option.


Eastern European
Western European
Asian
Middle Eastern
African
North American
South American
Australia/New Zealand
Other (please specify)
You can't reliably draw a line between "Western" and "Eastern European", even if dictators tried in the last century. For example, the easternmost point of EU was held (until Cyprus joined) by a country that counted itself as a "Western nation", i.e. Finland. That's because there are no Slavs around here, and our society is politically very similar to the French.

This problem is solved by separating Europe along Balto-Slavic, Germanic/Anglo-Saxon/Scandinavian, Fenno-Ugric, and Mediterranean, which is my current proposal.

"Asian", has to be "West" and "East" Asian. Aboriginal or native NZ ancestry is rare, according to the replies to the previous topic, therefore it's "Other".

North and South American heritages are mixed between the various types of European and the vague "Native American".

Then depending on the response, narrow that down by region. For example if you get no responses from African or South American, you could eliminate that category on the next round.
Two categories have been eliminated already: Arabic and African.

You see that we get the same as my proposal here, if we think about it a little bit.

This isn't going to be easy dude.
Isn't meant to be.

Celtic is the ethnic background, Gaelic is the language. That would be like saying English and English.
No if you want to narrow it down, you can say people from Ireland, Scotland and the Isle of Mann are Gaels because the speak/spoke Gaelic : Gaeilge(Irish), Gaidhlig (Scots Gaelic) and Manx(dunno what they call it since its dead)

Like in Irish if you were to say The Irish you'd say Na nGael.
The Gaels

The same could go for the Brythonic family of the Celtic languages.
Welsh, Breton, and Cornish