NationStates Jolt Archive

Can someone explain to me how US Congress/Senate/President relationship fits together? How does each get elected, what powers do they have and what's the difference between them. I'm curious because I don't know much about the political system beyond the President.

I've never really understood where the three different tiers of goverment fit in.

Well, to put it as simply as I can:

There are three branches - Congress, The Presidency, and the Supreme Court.

1) Congress consists of two houses, the House of Representatives (population based representation) and the Senate (every state has two Senators), the Senate being the higher house. They have the power to "make" legislation and write/rewrite the bills through committees/subcommittees. Both houses must pass the bill for it to then go to the Presidency.

2) The President is the Executive Branch; his job is to "enforce/execute" the laws of the country. He must sign the legislation from Congress before it can become law. However, he can veto and not sign it, and if Congress wants it to become law, they can repeat the process and override the veto.

You know, halfway through typing this, I realized that it would probably just be easier if I emailed you, or instant messaged you, or something...or maybe someone else can make it simpler.

I was in Honors American Government this past semester at my University; I can give you a pretty good idea of it if you really want to know.

Reading the Constitution is a good start. It is only around 13 pages long.

(NB: I'm not American so a lot of this is self learnt, and liable to be wrong).

Congress is a bicameral legitslature, with the House of Representatives being the lower house and the Senate being the upper house.

The job of the House is to represent the citizens of each state and each state get a number of representative depending on it's population (minimum 1).

Senate represents the states an each state get two senators regardless of the population (it represents States not people).

The President is elected through the Electoral College (that is, the people vote for the people that elect the President). The amount of Electors a state gets is the number of representatives plus two (for the senators).

Does that help?

I was in Honors American Government this past semester at my University; I can give you a pretty good idea of it if you really want to know.

Do you know how much influence the Federal court system has on crime?

Can someone explain to me how US Congress/Senate/President relationship fits together? How does each get elected, what powers do they have and what's the difference between them. I'm curious because I don't know much about the political system beyond the President.
Here's a sort of primer on that which seems to be pretty accurate: http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0770843.html

Well, to put it as simply as I can:

There are three branches - Congress, The Presidency, and the Supreme Court.

1) Congress consists of two houses, the House of Representatives (population based representation) and the Senate (every state has two Senators), the Senate being the higher house. They have the power to "make" legislation and write/rewrite the bills through committees/subcommittees. Both houses must pass the bill for it to then go to the Presidency.

2) The President is the Executive Branch; his job is to "enforce/execute" the laws of the country. He must sign the legislation from Congress before it can become law. However, he can veto and not sign it, and if Congress wants it to become law, they can repeat the process and override the veto.

You know, halfway through typing this, I realized that it would probably just be easier if I emailed you, or instant messaged you, or something...or maybe someone else can make it simpler.

I was in Honors American Government this past semester at my University; I can give you a pretty good idea of it if you really want to know.

So both the House of Reps & the Senate can propose legislation & both must approve it also? Do they only have to override the Presidential veto once & then it becomes law, or does it go back to the President?

Doesn't the President also propose legislation?

Do you know how much influence the Federal court system has on crime?

It depends on what kind of crime. Law enforcement is a shared power between the states and the federal government. However, federal officers are often the ones that get involved in organized crime, such as drug rings etc. If a crime crosses a state boundary, I believe it is automatically considered a federal crime regardless. We didn't get into crime so much as the structure and balance of power between the branches and the media, citizen groups, etc.

Here's a sort of primer on that which seems to be pretty accurate: http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0770843.html

Thanks for that.

It depends on what kind of crime. Law enforcement is a shared power between the states and the federal government. However, federal officers are often the ones that get involved in organized crime, such as drug rings etc. If a crime crosses a state boundary, I believe it is automatically considered a federal crime regardless. We didn't get into crime so much as the structure and balance of power between the branches and the media, citizen groups, etc.

Thanks anyway,

So both the House of Reps & the Senate can propose legislation & both must approve it also? Do they only have to override the Presidential veto once & then it becomes law, or does it go back to the President?

Somewhat,
If the President vetos it then it must go back to Congress. Often they'll do nothing about it. However with a two/thirds vote (in both chambers) they can overwrite this vote. It would not go back to the president

You mentioned the judicial system and yes at some levels the federal judicial system does get into crime. The higher you get up, however, it becomes less of a matter of guilt, but of whether the law (or even actions) were constitutional and allowed rights.

Double-A Batteries.

The Senate is one two houses of congress. ;) (Probably got that by now, eh?)

This site has a good simple rundown of the separation of powers: http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_cnb.html

So both the House of Reps & the Senate can propose legislation & both must approve it also? Do they only have to override the Presidential veto once & then it becomes law, or does it go back to the President?

Doesn't the President also propose legislation?

Technically, anyone can propose legislation, it's just that Senators aren't likely to listen to just some random person. They're very busy people.

People who happen to know Senators and Representatives make huge amounts of money from people who come to them and say "I have an idea for a law, can you suggest it to Senator SoAndSO? We call them lobbyists, for their bygone practice of hanging out in the lobby and harassing politicians on their way home, and they are a huge part of the problem with government corruption.

You mentioned the judicial system and yes at some levels the federal judicial system does get into crime. The higher you get up, however, it becomes less of a matter of guilt, but of whether the law (or even actions) were constitutional and allowed rights.

The vast majority of crime is considered a state matter. For example, there is no Federal law against murder. If you kill someone the Supreme Court, and any of the inferior federal courts, don't have anything to do with it unless it happened on federal property. They might get involved if the state law enforcement did something wrong, like beating someone for a confession and then using the confession to convict or something like that, but that's not really a matter of federal juristiction over murder, but over law enforcement.

Even if a muder happens on federal property (like a post office) the federal government probably won't bother getting involved unless there's some political reason.

The vast majority of crime is considered a state matter. For example, there is no Federal law against murder. If you kill someone the Supreme Court, and any of the inferior federal courts, don't have anything to do with it unless it happened on federal property. They might get involved if the state law enforcement did something wrong, like beating someone for a confession and then using the confession to convict or something like that, but that's not really a matter of federal juristiction over murder, but over law enforcement.

Even if a muder happens on federal property (like a post office) the federal government probably won't bother getting involved unless there's some political reason.

I have to disagree with you on some of those points. For example, serial killers who work in several states. Often, they transport bodies or travel over the borders to do their crimes. In these cases, federal officials often do get involved, because it is seen as "interstate commerce regulation control" or something like that. Transporting anything over a state line basically invites the federal government to use the Necessary and Proper Clause to expand their powers and intervene.

Real simple version.

Congress, Two houses who have to agree on any proposed law before it becomes law. Mostly they get to say how money is spent.
*House of Representatives, runs every two years so they're neurotic about voting for anything that the voters won't like. Any law about spending money has to come from this part of Congress.
*Senate, Runs every 6 years, 2 years out of 3 they don't give a damn what the voters want because after 2 years of good behavior voters will forget everything.

President, Whatever the law is, he's the one who has to put it into effect. If he doesn't want to do something Congress can't make him, but if he does want to Congress doesn't have to give him the money, so there's a lot of begging and threatening on both sides.

Supreme Court, originally it was just supposed to be the court that had the authority to overturn all other courts. Eventually someone came up with the idea that if the Highest law in the land was the Constitution then the Supreme court had the power to point out when other laws contradicted it.

States mostly run like the Federal government but smaller, but the Federal government is only supposed to get involved in things like promoting international and interstate trade, running the military, and doing jobs that no state wants to do, but everyone needs done, like the post office and highway construction. Obviously the Federal Government has claimed more and more power for itself over the years, but technically they don't really have the authority to do most of what they do.

I have to disagree with you on some of those points. For example, serial killers who work in several states. Often, they transport bodies or travel over the borders to do their crimes. In these cases, federal officials often do get involved, because it is seen as "interstate commerce regulation control" or something like that. Transporting anything over a state line basically invites the federal government to use the Necessary and Proper Clause to expand their powers and intervene.

That's why I said probably. Even with serial killers the FBI tends to leave it alone until the local authorities ask them to help or the media gets ahold of it. Both of which I suppose fall under the "political reasons" I mentioned.

I have to disagree with you on some of those points. For example, serial killers who work in several states. Often, they transport bodies or travel over the borders to do their crimes. In these cases, federal officials often do get involved, because it is seen as "interstate commerce regulation control" or something like that. Transporting anything over a state line basically invites the federal government to use the Necessary and Proper Clause to expand their powers and intervene.

Which is the Necessary and Proper clause?

I want to add some commentary on the two branches of U.S. government you're interested in, and then speak on the nature of laws/bills and how they're passed.

The President, officially, doesn't have a whole lot of power. At the start of the Republic, it was considered very much a figurehead's job; some of the framers of the Constitution didn't even want there to -be- an executive branch of the kind we have now, instead believing that the Parliamentary system Britain used would be sufficient. However, the Presidency was created [governors in states already played the executive role, so it wasn't an alien notion to the Americans]. The President originally could only veto or sign bills passed on to him by Congress, appoint judges and a few minor characters and deploy the military in a police action [not meant to be used in the way Presidents in the past 50 years have used it]. He had other functions and abilities, but these were his primary uses.

But his power grew. One of the first big expansions of power, in my mind, is when Theodore Roosevelt came to the conclusion that the Presidency offered him a "bully pulpit." He could speak directly to the public, and they would listen. And since they were the ones who voted Congress in or out, that meant he could indirectly affect Congress through it's constituencies. Presidents before had used this, but T. Roosevelt is generally thought to be the President who sort of formalized the process and made it standard practice by the Presidency.

The second came with WWII. Originally, the President's Cabinent had been an unofficial gathering of advisors; Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton, the men who envisioned two very different Americas, were part of this elite group. Over time, these Cabinent positions were made official; they became federal jobs that the President appointed men of his choosing to. With the Cabinent came departments, like the FBI, the Department of War, the State Department, etc. In WWII, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt used his bully pulpit to create a huge amount of social programs; he basically crafted the beginnings of the modern welfare state in America, such as it is. The President had - and still has - a huge amount of influence over these departments and programs, although over time more and more of the responsibility of these programs has transferred to Congress. At the time, the Constitutionality of this was questionable, and the Supreme Court even ended up striking down some of the programs and departments FDR created. Many remained, though; his "alphabet soup", so to speak.

Then we come to the modern Presidency. In Bush we see the full exercise of Executive authority, official and unofficial. The President is not permitted to submit bills to Congress, yet notice that when he started talking about a Constitutional Amendment about gay marriage, suddenly one was introduced to Congress; he used his bully pulpit. Iraq and Afghanistan are both instances of military police action, although Congress approved Bush's declaration of war in both cases [i believe]. Still, he could technically have gone in anyway; we've used our military forces in such a fashion before. He has created the Department of Homeland Security - clearly harkening back to the days of FDR when you had an idea and it got federally funded and fully staffed.

So. The Presidency has primarily grown powerful through it's ability to influence the American people - when the President talks, we listen - and through it's ability to influence the federal beauracracy.

I would note, however, that if a President vetoes a bill, Congress can over-ride the President's veto with, I think, a 2/3rds majority. Or sommin' like that.

In regards to Congress, I want to primarily speak about the way committees work, as well as some of the things that go on amongst the Congressmembers.

In each chamber of the legislature - the Senate and the House - there are committees dealing with different aspects of the government and of America. The most powerful of these is the House Appropriations Committee, which basically decides where money gets spent in the government and how. Special interests, congressmen, the President, various state representatives and who knows who and what else are constantly attempting to influence how this committee - and it's individual members, whom are placed on the committee by Congress - in an attempt to get more funding, or to cut funding to things that they don't like. They can cripple a piece of legislation if they so choose, as well as cause it to flourish. There are other important commitees; the Senate Judiciary Committee and Ethics Committees [see:DeLay] are good examples. It is in these committees that the true work of Congress is done; bills are reviewed, money is spent or with-held, acts of Congress are taken, and all the other work of running the U.S. from behind the scenes as well.

I won't go into how a bill is passed, as it is not only a frustratingly depressing affair, but also one I don't completely comprehend!

Also, Senators are elected to 6-year terms and Representatives are elected for 2-year terms. Senators are thus usually more respected and are also slower to act and more deliberate in their actions. Representatives, on the other hand, are always trying to get things done and are usually very outspoken and sometimes a little outrageous; this is because they need to do their job while campaigning for the next election season nearly all the time. To do this, they simply make sure their constituencies always hear about the things they're doing for them in the House. Thus, Representatives are not quite as respected or venerated as Senators. It's considered to be better to be a Senator than a Representative [and maybe you can see why].

There is a term in Congress I want to address:

pork barrel legislation - This is something I consider corrupt, yet I suppose a necessary evil in a federal system. Because each Congressman is elected by his state, he [or she!] is always on the lookout to improve his standing in his state and thus improve his chances of getting re-elected. To do this, they do something called pork barrel legislation. When bills go through Congress, they are often subjected to a series of alterations and reviews - during this time, any Congressman in that particular chamber can attach a rider to the bill. A rider is an extra piece of legislation on a bill that may not have anything to do with said bill, but will be passed along with everything else in the bill if it isn't destroyed in Congress or vetoed by the President. Pork-barrel legislation is when you introduce a bill or a rider on a bill to Congress that benefits only the state or district that you represent. For example: There is a bill in the Senate about setting federal standards for mercury pollution. I, Senator Trammwerk of Maine, get my chance and add this to the bill: Maine will get $200 million for a dam project. Or for roads. Or for education. Or whatever I want, really - it'll get passed if the bill goes through. This is an accepted practice in Congress; it's not exactly considered unethical there. Oftentimes, the Congressmen voting on the bill don't even know the riders exist! This is in part how the Patriot Act, containing so many objectionable pieces of legislation, passed through Congress so swiftly. It was a HUGE bill - 500 pages long, I think? - and in a time when everyone is trying to look like a patriot with a flag pin on their lapels, slapping the name 'Patriot Act' on the bill meant that the Congressmen weren't going to vote against it, and thus not read it either. Democracy in action.

I'll write here later about our Federalist system, how it affects our government, why it's so great, and why it friggin' sucks. G'night.

Which is the Necessary and Proper clause?

Article I, Section 8 [Lists the powers of Congress) Clause 18

Clause 18: To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

The Complete Constitution can be found at http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Constitution.html

It basically just allows Congress to take any explicitly mentioned (called Expressed Powers) from the previous 17 clauses and expand upon them.

The Complete Constitution can be found at http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Constitution.html
It basically just allows Congress to take any explicitly mentioned (called Expressed Powers) from the previous 17 clauses and expand upon them.
The meaning of that clause - and the powers it bestows upon Congress - has been debated upon since before it's inception.

Article I, Section 8 [Lists the powers of Congress) Clause 18



The Complete Constitution can be found at http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Constitution.html

I know, I currently have a copy printed out with a few notes in the margins (not that many those, mainly stuff from lectures).

It basically just allows Congress to take any explicitly mentioned (called Expressed Powers) from the previous 17 clauses and expand upon them.

Yay, another note!

Makes me wish the sodding EU could put together a constitution this concise, rather then a behemoth that no one can be expected to read if they don't have to.

during this time, any Congressman in that particular chamber can attach a rider to the bill.

Isn't it only Senators that can attach riders?

Also not to forget that other well used piece of quasi-corruption, hogrolling or horse trading. Basically, "I scratch your back, you scratch mine."

I won't go into how a bill is passed, as it is not only a frustratingly depressing affair, but also one I don't completely comprehend!

IIRC, it is a maze of committees and politiks. And largely depends on if the Leader/Speaker of House (I forget what it is called. Dennis Hastert is the current one AFAIK) likes you or not.

Death of a Senator:

A powerful senator dies after a prolonged
illness. His soul arrives in heaven and is met by
St. Peter at the entrance.

"Welcome to Heaven," says St. Peter. "Before
you settle in, it seems there is a problem. We
seldom see a high official around these parts, you
see, so we're not sure what to do with you."

"No problem, just let me in," says the guy.

"Well, I'd like to but I have orders from
higher up. What we'll do is have you spend one day
in Hell and one in Heaven. Then you can choose where
to spend eternity."

"Really, I've made up my mind. I want to be in
Heaven," says the senator.

"I'm sorry but we have our rules."

And with that, St. Peter escorts him to the
elevator and he goes down, down, down to Hell. The
doors open and he finds himself in the middle of a
green golf course. In the distance is a club and
standing in front of it are all his friends and
other politicians who had worked with him, everyone
is very happy and in evening attire. They run to
greet him, hug him, and reminisce about the good
times they had while getting rich at the expense of
the people. They play a friendly game of golf and
then dine on lobster and caviar. Also present is the
Devil, who really is a very friendly guy who has a
good time dancing and telling jokes. They are having
such a good time that, before he realizes it, it is
time to go. Everyone gives him a big hug and waves
while the elevator rises.

The elevator goes up, up, up and the door
reopens on Heaven where St. Peter is waiting for
him.

"Now it's time to visit Heaven."

So 24 hours pass with the head of state
joining a group of contented souls moving from cloud
to cloud, playing the harp and singing. They have a
good time and, before he realizes it, the 24 hours
have gone by and St. Peter returns.

"Well then, you've spent a day in Hell and
another in Heaven. Now choose your eternity."

He reflects for a minute, then the senator
answers, "Well, I would never have said it, I mean
Heaven has been delightful, but I think I would be
better off in Hell."

So St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and
he goes down, down, down to Hell. Now the doors of
the elevator open and he is in the middle of a
barren land covered with waste and garbage. He sees
all his friends, dressed in rags, picking up the
trash and putting it in black bags. The Devil comes
over to him and lays his arm on his neck.

"I don't understand," stammers the senator.
"Yesterday I was here and there was a golf course
and club and we ate lobster and caviar and danced
and had a great time. Now all there is, is a
wasteland full of garbage and my friends look
miserable.

The Devil looks at him, smiles and says,

"Yesterday we were campaigning...Today you
voted for us!"