NationStates Jolt Archive

http://colours.mahost.org/org/maleprivilege.html

1. My odds of being hired for a job, when competing against female applicants, are probably skewed in my favor. The more prestigious the job, the larger the odds are skewed.
2. I can be confident that my co-workers won't think I got my job because of my sex - even though that might be true.
3. If I am never promoted, it's not because of my sex.
4. If I fail in my job or career, I can feel sure this won't be seen as a black mark against my entire sex's capabilities.
5. The odds of my encountering sexual harassment on the job are so low as to be negligible.
6. If I do the same task as a woman, and if the measurement is at all subjective, chances are people will think I did a better job.
7. If I'm a teen or adult, and if I can stay out of prison, my odds of being raped are so low as to be negligible.
8. I am not taught to fear walking alone after dark in average public spaces.
9. If I choose not to have children, my masculinity will not be called into question.
10. If I have children but do not provide primary care for them, my masculinity will not be called into question.
11. If I have children and provide primary care for them, I'll be praised for extraordinary parenting if I'm even marginally competent.
12. If I have children and pursue a career, no one will think I'm selfish for not staying at home.
13. If I seek political office, my relationship with my children, or who I hire to take care of them, will probably not be scrutinized by the press.
14. Chances are my elected representatives are mostly people of my own sex. The more prestigious and powerful the elected position, the more likely this is to be true.
15. I can be somewhat sure that if I ask to see "the person in charge," I will face a person of my own sex. The higher-up in the organization the person is, the surer I can be.
16. As a child, chances are I was encouraged to be more active and outgoing than my sisters.
17. As a child, I could choose from an almost infinite variety of children's media featuring positive, active, non-stereotyped heroes of my own sex. I never had to look for it; male heroes were the default.
18. As a child, chances are I got more teacher attention than girls who raised their hands just as often.
19. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether or not it has sexist overtones.
20. I can turn on the television or glance at the front page of the newspaper and see people of my own sex widely represented, every day, without exception.
21. If I'm careless with my financial affairs it won't be attributed to my sex.
22. If I'm careless with my driving it won't be attributed to my sex.
23. I can speak in public to a large group without putting my sex on trial.
24. If I have sex with a lot of people, it won't make me an object of contempt or derision.
25. There are value-neutral clothing choices available to me; it is possible for me to choose clothing that doesn't send any particular message to the world.
26. My wardrobe and grooming are relatively cheap and consume little time.
27. If I buy a new car, chances are I'll be offered a better price than a woman buying the same car.
28. If I'm not conventionally attractive, the disadvantages are relatively small and easy to ignore.
29. I can be loud with no fear of being called a shrew. I can be aggressive with no fear of being called a bitch.
30. I can ask for legal protection from violence that happens mostly to men without being seen as a selfish special interest, since that kind of violence is called "crime" and is a general social concern. (Violence that happens mostly to women is usually called "domestic violence" or "acquaintance rape," and is seen as a special interest issue.)
31. I can be confident that the ordinary language of day-to-day existence will always include my sex. "All men are created equal…," mailman, chairman, freshman, he.
32. My ability to make important decisions and my capability in general will never be questioned depending on what time of the month it is.
33. I will never be expected to change my name upon marriage or questioned if i don't change my name.
34. The decision to hire me will never be based on assumptions about whether or not I might choose to have a family sometime soon.
35. Every major religion in the world is led primarily by people of my own sex. Even God, in most major religions, is usually pictured as being male.
36. Most major religions argue that I should be the head of my household, while my wife and children should be subservient to me.
37. If I have a wife or girlfriend, chances are we'll divide up household chores so that she does most of the labor, and in particular the most repetitive and unrewarding tasks.
38. If I have children with a wife or girlfriend, chances are she'll do most of the childrearing, and in particular the most dirty, repetitive and unrewarding parts of childrearing.
39. If I have children with a wife or girlfriend, and it turns out that one of us needs to make career sacrifices to raise the kids, chances are we'll both assume the career sacrificed should be hers.
40. Magazines, billboards, television, movies, pornography, and virtually all of media is filled with images of scantily-clad women intended to appeal to me sexually. Such images of men exist, but are much rarer.
41. I am not expected to spend my entire life 20-40 pounds underweight.
42. If I am heterosexual, it's incredibly unlikely that I'll ever be beaten up by a spouse or lover.
43. I have the privilege of being unaware of my male privilege.

7. If I'm a teen or adult, and if I can stay out of prison, my odds of being raped are so low as to be negligible.
This really isn't a fair 'privelege' to level at the male gender. We can't help that we aren't raped as often. How would you like us to fix this, besides attempting to reduce rape in general through law and punishment and social stigma?

10. If I have children but do not provide primary care for them, my masculinity will not be called into question.
I would doubt the masculinity of a 'man' who does not discharge his duties regarding his children. Next.

16. As a child, chances are I was encouraged to be more active and outgoing than my sisters.
Now, this is just trite.

17. As a child, I could choose from an almost infinite variety of children's media featuring positive, active, non-stereotyped heroes of my own sex. I never had to look for it; male heroes were the default.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Male heroes aren't stereotyped?

18. As a child, chances are I got more teacher attention than girls who raised their hands just as often.
As a highschool freshman, I had Algebra in the morning. I found it really hard - heh, I'm not too smart in the morning, and ironically, mathematics, my worst subject, was always first or second period every year of highschool. Anyway, my teacher, Mr. Younker, would never call on a boy if a girl raised her hand. Of couse, he also liked to stand next to them, give them shoulder massages and talk with them before and after class. Sexism cuts both ways, kids.

19. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether or not it has sexist overtones.
Perhaps. Of course, men in Western culture have other deep-seated psychological difficulties when it comes to negative situations. But it's all skittles and beer for men and everything bad always happens to women, I forgot.

26. My wardrobe and grooming are relatively cheap and consume little time.
This isn't a male privilege. It's something women do voluntarily. I could care less. I prefer women who dress simply and wear no makeup anyway.

29. I can be loud with no fear of being called a shrew. I can be aggressive with no fear of being called a bitch.
This is just whining. I call men who are loud "obnoxious," and men who are aggressive "assholes." Mommy, he called me a bad name!

40. Magazines, billboards, television, movies, pornography, and virtually all of media is filled with images of scantily-clad women intended to appeal to me sexually. Such images of men exist, but are much rarer.
That's capitalist marketing. Sex sells. If marketers thought that women would buy based on scantily clad men, they'd use that a lot more often.

43. I have the privilege of being unaware of my male privilege.
I'm aware of what it means to be a man; I'm aware of the advantages of being a man, and believe me when I tell you I'd much rather be a man as opposed to a woman.

But I will also note that men have a number of problems too. Yeah, they don't have to deal with as much shit as women, but it's not as if we don't have 10,000 years of tradition and thought fucking with our heads and lives too.

Blegh... Modern feminism gets me riled. Sorry.

Don't forget we can stand a pee at the same time.

http://colours.mahost.org/org/maleprivilege.html

1. My odds of being hired for a job, when competing against female applicants, are probably skewed in my favor. The more prestigious the job, the larger the odds are skewed.

Probably? Bah. Go read the March issue of the Harvard Business review. Survey by Gallup of Men and Women with MBAs. What did they find out? Men sought out the higher jobs, women didn't. Men listed themselves as ambitious, women didn't. Men made it their goal to reach a powerful position, women didn't. The skew is not "by males, for males, down with women", the skew is "more men apply, more men want it, and more men work for it"

2. I can be confident that my co-workers won't think I got my job because of my sex - even though that might be true.
3. If I am never promoted, it's not because of my sex.
4. If I fail in my job or career, I can feel sure this won't be seen as a black mark against my entire sex's capabilities.

Oh come on. Those reasons are bogus. Especially since if you are my co-worker, you will think I got my job because of my sex, same with promotions.

5. The odds of my encountering sexual harassment on the job are so low as to be negligible.

The odds of being insulted, derided on the job? High. The odds of a woman to be able to successfully sue, for big money, anyone who even hints at anything even remotely sexist? Very high.

6. If I do the same task as a woman, and if the measurement is at all subjective, chances are people will think I did a better job.

BS. Any proof at all to back up that claim?

7. If I'm a teen or adult, and if I can stay out of prison, my odds of being raped are so low as to be negligible.
8. I am not taught to fear walking alone after dark in average public spaces.

WTF? Those are male "privileges"?

9. If I choose not to have children, my masculinity will not be called into question.
10. If I have children but do not provide primary care for them, my masculinity will not be called into question.
11. If I have children and provide primary care for them, I'll be praised for extraordinary parenting if I'm even marginally competent.

LOL. Right. Those are "privileges" My @$$ they are.

12. If I have children and pursue a career, no one will think I'm selfish for not staying at home.

Bah. Its mainly women who tell themselves they are selfish for pursuing a career instead of staying at home. Not being subject to self-inflicted guilt is not a privilege.

13. If I seek political office, my relationship with my children, or who I hire to take care of them, will probably not be scrutinized by the press.
14. Chances are my elected representatives are mostly people of my own sex. The more prestigious and powerful the elected position, the more likely this is to be true.
15. I can be somewhat sure that if I ask to see "the person in charge," I will face a person of my own sex. The higher-up in the organization the person is, the surer I can be.

See above, women who are qualified to seek those positions don't tend to make it a priority to actually seek them.

16. As a child, chances are I was encouraged to be more active and outgoing than my sisters.
17. As a child, I could choose from an almost infinite variety of children's media featuring positive, active, non-stereotyped heroes of my own sex. I never had to look for it; male heroes were the default.
18. As a child, chances are I got more teacher attention than girls who raised their hands just as often.

A nice crock of crap.

19. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether or not it has sexist overtones.
20. I can turn on the television or glance at the front page of the newspaper and see people of my own sex widely represented, every day, without exception.

See above, Women do not seek those positions. That is their own fault, not the fault of men.

21. If I'm careless with my financial affairs it won't be attributed to my sex.
22. If I'm careless with my driving it won't be attributed to my sex.
23. I can speak in public to a large group without putting my sex on trial.

Ha, you are not only attributing many negative things to the male sex, you are putting them on trail.

24. If I have sex with a lot of people, it won't make me an object of contempt or derision.

Women inflict this on themselves.

25. There are value-neutral clothing choices available to me; it is possible for me to choose clothing that doesn't send any particular message to the world.

What, you've never seen a woman dress "value-neutral" and WTF does "value-neutral" mean anyway? Whatever you wear, male or female, it sends a message.

26. My wardrobe and grooming are relatively cheap and consume little time.

Women inflict their own level, and expense, of grooming and wardrobe on themselves.

27. If I buy a new car, chances are I'll be offered a better price than a woman buying the same car.

Wrong, men research and haggle more. Women research and haggle less.

28. If I'm not conventionally attractive, the disadvantages are relatively small and easy to ignore.

The same applies to women.

29. I can be loud with no fear of being called a shrew. I can be aggressive with no fear of being called a bitch.

Ah but if you are loud or aggressive you get called an ass. Different word, same meaning.

30. I can ask for legal protection from violence that happens mostly to men without being seen as a selfish special interest, since that kind of violence is called "crime" and is a general social concern. (Violence that happens mostly to women is usually called "domestic violence" or "acquaintance rape," and is seen as a special interest issue.)

Violence that happens mainly to women includes mugging etc... and those are normal. Domestic abuse is a descriptive term and is still a crime. There is no privilege there.

31. I can be confident that the ordinary language of day-to-day existence will always include my sex. "All men are created equal…," mailman, chairman, freshman, he.

What a nice steaming load of dung.

32. My ability to make important decisions and my capability in general will never be questioned depending on what time of the month it is.

But then again, no one really questions women about their ability to make important decisions based on what time of the month it is. We kid them about it. Minor difference there.

33. I will never be expected to change my name upon marriage or questioned if i don't change my name.

Really? My cousin didn't change her name. Why? Why should a VP change her name when it would screw up her business card, business relations etc...? Anyone question her about it? Nope.

34. The decision to hire me will never be based on assumptions about whether or not I might choose to have a family sometime soon.

This is a decision based off general actions. Women who have families, as a matter of statistics, end up working part-time or quitting entirely. Women who decide to take time off take on average 1.2 years off. Men don't. That would play a significant role seeing as the average replacement cost of an employee for highly qualified women is 150k.

35. Every major religion in the world is led primarily by people of my own sex. Even God, in most major religions, is usually pictured as being male.
36. Most major religions argue that I should be the head of my household, while my wife and children should be subservient to me.

LOL. Right, that’s a "privilege."

37. If I have a wife or girlfriend, chances are we'll divide up household chores so that she does most of the labor, and in particular the most repetitive and unrewarding tasks.
38. If I have children with a wife or girlfriend, chances are she'll do most of the childrearing, and in particular the most dirty, repetitive and unrewarding parts of childrearing.
39. If I have children with a wife or girlfriend, and it turns out that one of us needs to make career sacrifices to raise the kids, chances are we'll both assume the career sacrificed should be hers.

What, you mean a mother would actually want to raise her kids? That most women expect the man to provide for her and her children? Wait, you mean women should just change one of their natural instincts? That somehow this gives men a privilege? BS.

40. Magazines, billboards, television, movies, pornography, and virtually all of media is filled with images of scantily-clad women intended to appeal to me sexually. Such images of men exist, but are much rarer.

So what? Smart marketing tools. What is a privilege about that?

41. I am not expected to spend my entire life 20-40 pounds underweight.

Oh BS. Women inflict this on themselves as their own choice.

42. If I am heterosexual, it's incredibly unlikely that I'll ever be beaten up by a spouse or lover.

Women get to choose who they date. As do men.

43. I have the privilege of being unaware of my male privilege.

Too bad I can't really find anything on that list that is an actual privilege..

31. I can be confident that the ordinary language of day-to-day existence will always include my sex. [...] he.

I know I'm proud that my pronoun has become effectively neutered.

Don't forget we can stand a pee at the same time.
Hey, some gals can do that too, I hear.

I don't really count, for..a certain reason...
http://67.15.137.131/images/icq/embarrassed.gif

1. My odds of being hired for a job, when competing against female applicants, are probably skewed in my favor. The more prestigious the job, the larger the odds are skewed.
I'm in a unique position here, in both the 'day job' and my budding career. In my day job my boss has admited that she tends not to hire men because they haven't historically done well in the job. Since this is about as low a level job you can get, that really doesn't mean much. Plus, I did get the job. In my budding career, everyone is tired of hearing from male crackers and there is a demand for scripts from different voices. I feel this is justified and called for, even if it makes getting my work done slightly harder (initially). Again, I'm hardly barred and I get my work done enough, so it can't really be a complaint.
2. I can be confident that my co-workers won't think I got my job because of my sex - even though that might be true.
Again, unique position. I got my job inspite of my sex. Not indicative.
3. If I am never promoted, it's not because of my sex.
Same story, I was promoted because of prior work experience in spite of my sex. My previous job statistically I did stand a better chance of promotion over the company. Our manager was particularly angry about that.
4. If I fail in my job or career, I can feel sure this won't be seen as a black mark against my entire sex's capabilities.
In this job it would be. Otherwise, yep.
5. The odds of my encountering sexual harassment on the job are so low as to be negligible.
This has actually happened to me, which is weird, cause I'm not a 'looker.' Statistically, though, with current circumstances aside, yeah-pretty much.
6. If I do the same task as a woman, and if the measurement is at all subjective, chances are people will think I did a better job.
Unique situation again.
7. If I'm a teen or adult, and if I can stay out of prison, my odds of being raped are so low as to be negligible.
And how.
8. I am not taught to fear walking alone after dark in average public spaces.
I was raised a suburban white kid, so actually I was-but not in the same way.
9. If I choose not to have children, my masculinity will not be called into question.
This is only recently true.
10. If I have children but do not provide primary care for them, my masculinity will not be called into question.
This is becoming less true.
11. If I have children and provide primary care for them, I'll be praised for extraordinary parenting if I'm even marginally competent.
I think this is universal.
12. If I have children and pursue a career, no one will think I'm selfish for not staying at home.
And the corrilary(sp), if I do stay home my masculanity would be called into question. Though, if I thought I was responsable enough to have kids I would gladly be the one to stay home so I can work on my stuff...and kids love me...
13. If I seek political office, my relationship with my children, or who I hire to take care of them, will probably not be scrutinized by the press.
This is universal. Men have stepped down for hiring illegal immigrants.
14. Chances are my elected representatives are mostly people of my own sex. The more prestigious and powerful the elected position, the more likely this is to be true.
California! Both senators are women. Though the latter half is true.
15. I can be somewhat sure that if I ask to see "the person in charge," I will face a person of my own sex. The higher-up in the organization the person is, the surer I can be.
True.
16. As a child, chances are I was encouraged to be more active and outgoing than my sisters.
No sister. Wasn't encouraged, either. Can't really comment on this.
17. As a child, I could choose from an almost infinite variety of children's media featuring positive, active, non-stereotyped heroes of my own sex. I never had to look for it; male heroes were the default.
Oh yeah. Never had to be subjected to She-Ra Princess of Power or Gem & the Holligrams. I'm not saying I didn't watch those, too....
18. As a child, chances are I got more teacher attention than girls who raised their hands just as often.
Not really. Girls always seemed to be the teachers pet. Of course 'teachers pet' is really just 'kid who is doing better than me because she pays attention and studies and I need to lash out instead of buckle down'...but that's a whole other thing...
19. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether or not it has sexist overtones.
Yes. Although, if I am in a bad mood I have to, despite being a pacifist, constantly assure people that I'm not going to hit them.
20. I can turn on the television or glance at the front page of the newspaper and see people of my own sex widely represented, every day, without exception.
Yes.
21. If I'm careless with my financial affairs it won't be attributed to my sex.
Yeah it will. The women in my family on both sides constantly lambast mens ability to handle money, especially in the family. I'm really not helping the case...
22. If I'm careless with my driving it won't be attributed to my sex.
Not in the same way. Though if I buy a sports car it will be unfavorably compared to my phallus and derided as my 'mid-life crisis.'
23. I can speak in public to a large group without putting my sex on trial.
Yes.
24. If I have sex with a lot of people, it won't make me an object of contempt or derision.
This isn't so much universally true, but more true than not.
25. There are value-neutral clothing choices available to me; it is possible for me to choose clothing that doesn't send any particular message to the world.
Yes.
26. My wardrobe and grooming are relatively cheap and consume little time.
Not if Maxim has it's way. I like simplicity, but thats me (and a whole bunch of other people...this is more complex than it lets on)
27. If I buy a new car, chances are I'll be offered a better price than a woman buying the same car.
Yes. Except for my friend who knows her crap and doesn't take any gruff. I bring her to buy anything 'cause she's good.
28. If I'm not conventionally attractive, the disadvantages are relatively small and easy to ignore.
They aren't throwing themselves at my feet. But probably true.
29. I can be loud with no fear of being called a shrew. I can be aggressive with no fear of being called a bitch.
I would get 'dick' and 'asshole' instead.
30. I can ask for legal protection from violence that happens mostly to men without being seen as a selfish special interest, since that kind of violence is called "crime" and is a general social concern. (Violence that happens mostly to women is usually called "domestic violence" or "acquaintance rape," and is seen as a special interest issue.)
Seems weird. I'll just pass on this one...
31. I can be confident that the ordinary language of day-to-day existence will always include my sex. "All men are created equal…," mailman, chairman, freshman, he.
Not here, but extreme circumstance again.
32. My ability to make important decisions and my capability in general will never be questioned depending on what time of the month it is.
Yes.
33. I will never be expected to change my name upon marriage or questioned if i don't change my name.
yes.
34. The decision to hire me will never be based on assumptions about whether or not I might choose to have a family sometime soon.
Unique position.
35. Every major religion in the world is led primarily by people of my own sex. Even God, in most major religions, is usually pictured as being male.
Yes. I'm an athiest though, so...
36. Most major religions argue that I should be the head of my household, while my wife and children should be subservient to me.
again...
37. If I have a wife or girlfriend, chances are we'll divide up household chores so that she does most of the labor, and in particular the most repetitive and unrewarding tasks.
Well, I don't do them now when I'm alone, so...
Okay, yes.
38. If I have children with a wife or girlfriend, chances are she'll do most of the childrearing, and in particular the most dirty, repetitive and unrewarding parts of childrearing.
I love kids. Kids love me. And, again-I'd gladly be the one to stay. But statistically, yes.
39. If I have children with a wife or girlfriend, and it turns out that one of us needs to make career sacrifices to raise the kids, chances are we'll both assume the career sacrificed should be hers.
Unique circumstances.
40. Magazines, billboards, television, movies, pornography, and virtually all of media is filled with images of scantily-clad women intended to appeal to me sexually. Such images of men exist, but are much rarer.
Actually, television is programed for woman's pleasure and has seperate issues on that front. I could site papers written on the subject, but I don't really feel like re-hashing my undergrad studies right now...
41. I am not expected to spend my entire life 20-40 pounds underweight.
And I get a slight pass (more than I would if I where female) if I'm 20-40 pounds over. But I live in California, so if I want to 'step up' so to speak I'm gonna have to have a 'pack'...
42. If I am heterosexual, it's incredibly unlikely that I'll ever be beaten up by a spouse or lover.
Yes.
43. I have the privilege of being unaware of my male privilege.[/QUOTE]
I'm aware of it, but yes. I'm not going to ball up in a corner and whimper and I have my life to live so I can't dedicate my life to forcing change, just be available when change comes to be a voice of support and call for that change whenever I can.

Probably? Bah. Go read the March issue of the Harvard Business review. Survey by Gallup of Men and Women with MBAs. What did they find out? Men sought out the higher jobs, women didn't. Men listed themselves as ambitious, women didn't. Men made it their goal to reach a powerful position, women didn't. The skew is not "by males, for males, down with women", the skew is "more men apply, more men want it, and more men work for it"

Yes but what you have to ask is why women don't do all those things?

Does a jig because apparently I'm so damn special. (do you really think I'm going to even slightly object to these? They benefit me!)

Yes, I feel like an insensitive prick. When apathy hits, being evil is sometimes the most amusing option.

breasts floating


and not necessary in that order.

Don't forget we can stand a pee at the same time.

Women aren't animals :)

What a strange idea of privilege. All this "privilege" comes at the expense and degradation of others.
Is that really a privilege you want to claim?

hmm....well......hmmm...women not getting represented...lemme see....

How many channels do women have on basic cable in the states?

3 that i can count off the top of my head (lifetime, oxygen, and W)

How many do men have?

1, recently, and that is moronic, SPIKE...

how come if a man forgets a irthday, anniversary, etc, he is branded for life as being an insensitive prick, but if a woman does it, she is somehow justified?

How come women tell us to do something, we do it, and they get angry that we did it, (or did it in a way that we saw better)

If a man and a woman ever get into an argument, and the man is right, he is immediately called a chauvenist pig.

A woman can blame he anger on PMS, but if a man brings it up he is vilified?

WOmen have way more double standards, men stick to one thing. WOmen make their own lives difficult in many respects, but not all, men are to blame for some as well however, but the feminist movement will be the death of us all. many are ceasing to believe in marraige, many are also being domineering.

My finace doesn't like to be patronized, but she aslo appreciates being respected. many feminists i have seen get angry if i open a door for them, that is nonsensical.....

[\RANT]

Women aren't animals :)
how do you work that one? :confused:

Hooray for patriarchal societies!!!!

Now one of you ladies get in the kitchen and make me some dinner, pronto.

how do you work that one? :confused:
Only wild animals stand around and piss like men.

Only wild animals stand around and piss like men.
so women are like...robots or something? after all if, like you said, theyre not animals...

so women are like...robots or something? after all if, like you said, theyre not animals...
Women are superior beings compared to men.

Don't forget we can stand a pee at the same time.
"plastuit"

Women are superior beings compared to men.

Only when it comes to making babies.

And men will be making better babies in laboratories before long.

Women are superior beings compared to men.
i see

well i guess male chauvinism and sexism is ok then...

35. Every major religion in the world is led primarily by people of my own sex. Even God, in most major religions, is usually pictured as being male.
Even though pretty much everything is just whiny bitching ignorant of sociobiology, which I shall address, I think something needs to be clarified here. Many pre-Abrahamic religions worpshipped what is commonly called the sacred feminine. Especially the Celic religions, but they weren't the only ones.

Now, secondly, you don't seem to realise that men and women evolved differently. Take gorillas for example. The male is twice as large as the female. Do you fully realise just how big of a difference that is? In humans, women would either all be 3' high or the males all 10'. The females are all kept in harems under the dominant male.

Let's take this a little simpler. The purpose of all individuals is to have as many children as possible. We are all descended from individuals who left more children behind than their competitors. Males can go around and sow their wild oats all over the place without any negative consequences. Females, on the other hand, have to go through pregnancy and really don't have anything other than a social advantage to multiple partners. Both want to raise as many living and successful children as possible, because that means their genes are continued. I'll let you figure the rest out.

Life isn't fair, and the sexes are not equal. Men are, on average, better at certain visuo-spatial tasks and better at abstract thought and mathematics. Women are, on average, better at social discernment and verbal tasks. They each evolved to suit what was necessary. There's a reason that men do not have breasts of the same size that women do. There is no reason for them to have that much mammary tissue, since they do not feed infants.

Eh, all of this is probably wasted anyways. No-one cares about sociobiology, despite its values.

i see

well i guess male chauvinism and sexism is ok then...

I think you meant female chauvinism and sexism, which are quite real in media- just look at the sitcoms, which portray dads as buffoons.

Women are superior beings compared to men.

*bows*

I submit! I stole the cookies from the cookie jar! All my base r belong to u!

*bows*

I submit! I stole the cookies from the cookie jar! All my base r belong to u!

Muahaha :gundge: :cool: :fluffle:

What a strange idea of privilege. All this "privilege" comes at the expense and degradation of others.
Is that really a privilege you want to claim?

that's kind of what privilege means in this context. privilege is not a good thing.

1. My odds of being hired for a job, when competing against female applicants, are probably skewed in my favor. The more prestigious the job, the larger the odds are skewed.

At my current job, yes. At my prospective job, no.

2. I can be confident that my co-workers won't think I got my job because of my sex - even though that might be true.

Actually I'm confident that I don't give a damn if anyone thinks I got the job because of my sex. :D

3. If I am never promoted, it's not because of my sex.

Probably not. It probably has to do with my know-it-all attitude. ;)

4. If I fail in my job or career, I can feel sure this won't be seen as a black mark against my entire sex's capabilities.

That depends on whether I fail in a stereotypical male manner or not.

5. The odds of my encountering sexual harassment on the job are so low as to be negligible.

Not true. I've had problems with sexual harassment in other settings, and I doubt it becomes any less of a potential problem when I'm on duty.

6. If I do the same task as a woman, and if the measurement is at all subjective, chances are people will think I did a better job.

Quite the opposite actually. I'm expected to be uber-competent, so when I do a job properly it's seen as a matter of course. A woman, however, gets higher praise for doing a proper job because she is expected to be less competent.

7. If I'm a teen or adult, and if I can stay out of prison, my odds of being raped are so low as to be negligible.

Yeah. But I'm also large, look very muscular, and project an air of confidence. I don't fit the victim type at all.

8. I am not taught to fear walking alone after dark in average public spaces.

I wasn't taught that as an explicit lesson, but considering my encounters with racial discrimination in the neighborhood where I grew up, I figured that doing so was a bad idea, at least when I was smaller and less well known.

9. If I choose not to have children, my masculinity will not be called into question.


Hell yes it would. Even more so if I refuse to have sex with a woman.

10. If I have children but do not provide primary care for them, my masculinity will not be called into question.

Probably not.

11. If I have children and provide primary care for them, I'll be praised for extraordinary parenting if I'm even marginally competent.

Probably not. I might be praised for my "enlightened" view of gender roles, but if I suck as a parent they're not going to tell me I'm a good parent because I'm a man.

12. If I have children and pursue a career, no one will think I'm selfish for not staying at home.

Probably not.

13. If I seek political office, my relationship with my children, or who I hire to take care of them, will probably not be scrutinized by the press.

They might not do anything about it on the air or in print, but I have no doubt that every aspect of my life would be scrutinized.

14. Chances are my elected representatives are mostly people of my own sex. The more prestigious and powerful the elected position, the more likely this is to be true.

Yep.

15. I can be somewhat sure that if I ask to see "the person in charge," I will face a person of my own sex. The higher-up in the organization the person is, the surer I can be.

Yep.

16. As a child, chances are I was encouraged to be more active and outgoing than my sisters.

Nope. My sister was actually given a lot more leeway than I was by far.

17. As a child, I could choose from an almost infinite variety of children's media featuring positive, active, non-stereotyped heroes of my own sex. I never had to look for it; male heroes were the default.

Non-stereotyped? Yeah, right. :rolleyes:

The rest is true. :D

18. As a child, chances are I got more teacher attention than girls who raised their hands just as often.

Quite the opposite actually.

19. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether or not it has sexist overtones.

No. But women don't need to either. It might benefit them to do so, however. :)

20. I can turn on the television or glance at the front page of the newspaper and see people of my own sex widely represented, every day, without exception.

Yep.

21. If I'm careless with my financial affairs it won't be attributed to my sex.

I give that 50/50 odds.

22. If I'm careless with my driving it won't be attributed to my sex.

The insurance company will. :D

23. I can speak in public to a large group without putting my sex on trial.

Depends on the context.

24. If I have sex with a lot of people, it won't make me an object of contempt or derision.

Considering the kind of people I hang out with, yeah it would.

25. There are value-neutral clothing choices available to me; it is possible for me to choose clothing that doesn't send any particular message to the world.

Not that I know of.

26. My wardrobe and grooming are relatively cheap and consume little time.

Yep.

27. If I buy a new car, chances are I'll be offered a better price than a woman buying the same car.

Depends on the woman and the car. :D

28. If I'm not conventionally attractive, the disadvantages are relatively small and easy to ignore.

The hell they are. :mad:

29. I can be loud with no fear of being called a shrew. I can be aggressive with no fear of being called a bitch.

Yep. I would get called entirely different terms, and behind my back.

30. I can ask for legal protection from violence that happens mostly to men without being seen as a selfish special interest, since that kind of violence is called "crime" and is a general social concern. (Violence that happens mostly to women is usually called "domestic violence" or "acquaintance rape," and is seen as a special interest issue.)

True, but more complicated than that.

31. I can be confident that the ordinary language of day-to-day existence will always include my sex. "All men are created equal…," mailman, chairman, freshman, he.

Yep, the old default pronouns always make me feel better about myself. :rolleyes:

The problem is not that men have privilege in this case. It's that women feel shafted, for obvious and understandable reasons.

32. My ability to make important decisions and my capability in general will never be questioned depending on what time of the month it is.

True. But that it based on biology, not perceived gender roles.

33. I will never be expected to change my name upon marriage or questioned if i don't change my name.

Probably not.

34. The decision to hire me will never be based on assumptions about whether or not I might choose to have a family sometime soon.

That may well be taken into consideration, given the current laws governing the situation.

35. Every major religion in the world is led primarily by people of my own sex. Even God, in most major religions, is usually pictured as being male.

Yep.

36. Most major religions argue that I should be the head of my household, while my wife and children should be subservient to me.

Meh.

37. If I have a wife or girlfriend, chances are we'll divide up household chores so that she does most of the labor, and in particular the most repetitive and unrewarding tasks.

Depends on the job situations and our individual talents.

38. If I have children with a wife or girlfriend, chances are she'll do most of the childrearing, and in particular the most dirty, repetitive and unrewarding parts of childrearing.

See above.

39. If I have children with a wife or girlfriend, and it turns out that one of us needs to make career sacrifices to raise the kids, chances are we'll both assume the career sacrificed should be hers.

See above.

40. Magazines, billboards, television, movies, pornography, and virtually all of media is filled with images of scantily-clad women intended to appeal to me sexually. Such images of men exist, but are much rarer.

Yeah.

41. I am not expected to spend my entire life 20-40 pounds underweight.

Actually, I'm expected to be fat, lazy, unromantic, and insensitive.

42. If I am heterosexual, it's incredibly unlikely that I'll ever be beaten up by a spouse or lover.

Very true. It may have something to do with my appearance as well.

43. I have the privilege of being unaware of my male privilege.

Only rarely.

Even though pretty much everything is just whiny bitching ignorant of sociobiology, which I shall address, I think something needs to be clarified here. Many pre-Abrahamic religions worpshipped what is commonly called the sacred feminine. Especially the Celic religions, but they weren't the only ones.

yes, and? are you claiming that the feminine fertility religions are the major ones seen in the world today?

and what exactly does sociobiology do to justify male privilege? is/ought, man.

I think you meant female chauvinism and sexism, which are quite real in media- just look at the sitcoms, which portray dads as buffoons.
no, i didnt, youve missed the point of my post

Then, just what was your point? I see plenty of reverse sexism against men that people don't care to admit.

Then, just what was your point? I see plenty of reverse sexism against men that people don't care to admit.
Jamil was saying "women are better than men" so obviously its now ok to be a male chauvinist

Jamil was saying "women are better than men" so obviously its now ok to be a male chauvinist

You meant in retaliation then?

You meant in retaliation then?
nope

its just ok apparently

Well, logically, if women can be chauvinists, so can men.....

http://www.newswithviews.com/Roberts/careyA.htm

http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~shane/stasj/pics/humor/div/good_wife.jpg

If men are so powerful as a whole, and dominate society and indeed the world, then how was it that my mother (a woman) was able to not only get away with beating me, but keep doing it for years and years until finally a court let me decide to go live with my dad.


The notion that all men are responsible for the plight of all women is sickening.



If you want to see what feminism is really about...



"No woman should be authorized to stay at home to raise her children. Society should be totally different. Women should not have that choice, precisely because if there is such a choice, too many women will make that one."
Simone de Beauvoir, 1974, The Saturday Review.



http://www.newswithviews.com/Roberts/carey2.htm

http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~shane/stasj/pics/humor/div/good_wife.jpg



Yeah, is something wrong with that? Most of those are just something that ought to be expected and not even need stating.

Well, logically, if women can be chauvinists, so can men.....
...that was my point

http://colours.mahost.org/org/maleprivilege.html

1. My odds of being hired for a job, when competing against female applicants, are probably skewed in my favor. The more prestigious the job, the larger the odds are skewed.
2. I can be confident that my co-workers won't think I got my job because of my sex - even though that might be true.
3. If I am never promoted, it's not because of my sex.
4. If I fail in my job or career, I can feel sure this won't be seen as a black mark against my entire sex's capabilities.
5. The odds of my encountering sexual harassment on the job are so low as to be negligible.
6. If I do the same task as a woman, and if the measurement is at all subjective, chances are people will think I did a better job.
7. If I'm a teen or adult, and if I can stay out of prison, my odds of being raped are so low as to be negligible.
8. I am not taught to fear walking alone after dark in average public spaces.
9. If I choose not to have children, my masculinity will not be called into question.
10. If I have children but do not provide primary care for them, my masculinity will not be called into question.
11. If I have children and provide primary care for them, I'll be praised for extraordinary parenting if I'm even marginally competent.
12. If I have children and pursue a career, no one will think I'm selfish for not staying at home.
13. If I seek political office, my relationship with my children, or who I hire to take care of them, will probably not be scrutinized by the press.
14. Chances are my elected representatives are mostly people of my own sex. The more prestigious and powerful the elected position, the more likely this is to be true.
15. I can be somewhat sure that if I ask to see "the person in charge," I will face a person of my own sex. The higher-up in the organization the person is, the surer I can be.
16. As a child, chances are I was encouraged to be more active and outgoing than my sisters.
17. As a child, I could choose from an almost infinite variety of children's media featuring positive, active, non-stereotyped heroes of my own sex. I never had to look for it; male heroes were the default.
18. As a child, chances are I got more teacher attention than girls who raised their hands just as often.
19. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether or not it has sexist overtones.
20. I can turn on the television or glance at the front page of the newspaper and see people of my own sex widely represented, every day, without exception.
21. If I'm careless with my financial affairs it won't be attributed to my sex.
22. If I'm careless with my driving it won't be attributed to my sex.
23. I can speak in public to a large group without putting my sex on trial.
24. If I have sex with a lot of people, it won't make me an object of contempt or derision.
25. There are value-neutral clothing choices available to me; it is possible for me to choose clothing that doesn't send any particular message to the world.
26. My wardrobe and grooming are relatively cheap and consume little time.
27. If I buy a new car, chances are I'll be offered a better price than a woman buying the same car.
28. If I'm not conventionally attractive, the disadvantages are relatively small and easy to ignore.
29. I can be loud with no fear of being called a shrew. I can be aggressive with no fear of being called a bitch.
30. I can ask for legal protection from violence that happens mostly to men without being seen as a selfish special interest, since that kind of violence is called "crime" and is a general social concern. (Violence that happens mostly to women is usually called "domestic violence" or "acquaintance rape," and is seen as a special interest issue.)
31. I can be confident that the ordinary language of day-to-day existence will always include my sex. "All men are created equal…," mailman, chairman, freshman, he.
32. My ability to make important decisions and my capability in general will never be questioned depending on what time of the month it is.
33. I will never be expected to change my name upon marriage or questioned if i don't change my name.
34. The decision to hire me will never be based on assumptions about whether or not I might choose to have a family sometime soon.
35. Every major religion in the world is led primarily by people of my own sex. Even God, in most major religions, is usually pictured as being male.
36. Most major religions argue that I should be the head of my household, while my wife and children should be subservient to me.
37. If I have a wife or girlfriend, chances are we'll divide up household chores so that she does most of the labor, and in particular the most repetitive and unrewarding tasks.
38. If I have children with a wife or girlfriend, chances are she'll do most of the childrearing, and in particular the most dirty, repetitive and unrewarding parts of childrearing.
39. If I have children with a wife or girlfriend, and it turns out that one of us needs to make career sacrifices to raise the kids, chances are we'll both assume the career sacrificed should be hers.
40. Magazines, billboards, television, movies, pornography, and virtually all of media is filled with images of scantily-clad women intended to appeal to me sexually. Such images of men exist, but are much rarer.
41. I am not expected to spend my entire life 20-40 pounds underweight.
42. If I am heterosexual, it's incredibly unlikely that I'll ever be beaten up by a spouse or lover.
43. I have the privilege of being unaware of my male privilege.

Some facts to keep in mind:
1. Women want the rights but not the responsibilities.
2. If a woman is charged with a serious crime, they let her go scot free with nothing but a slap on the wrist. If a guy did the same, he would either be on death row or in prison the rest of his life.
3. Women tend to make very poor leaders in practicality, though it does look good on paper to have them in such positions. Especially in the military and in politics.
4. Women look at porn more often than men do and are more aroused by it.
5. Women are more likely than men to commit adultery or cheat on their boyfriends.
6. Instead of using qualifications, women tend to use their looks to get jobs or promotions.
7. Women as a whole group tend to be more lazy than men.
8. Women always use men.
9. It is a fact that women lie more often than men do.
10. Women have weak minds because they are stuck in the adolescent phase of life.
11. Women are also more likely to fake an illness.

Did I mention that women are 12x more likely than men to be hoodwinked.

Some facts to keep in mind:
1. Women want the rights but not the responsibilities.
2. If a woman is charged with a serious crime, they let her go scot free with nothing but a slap on the wrist. If a guy did the same, he would either be on death row or in prison the rest of his life.
3. Women tend to make very poor leaders in practicality, though it does look good on paper to have them in such positions. Especially in the military and in politics.
4. Women look at porn more often than men do and are more aroused by it.
5. Women are more likely than men to commit adultery or cheat on their boyfriends.
6. Instead of using qualifications, women tend to use their looks to get jobs or promotions.
7. Women as a whole group tend to be more lazy than men.
8. Women always use men.
9. It is a fact that women lie more often than men do.
10. Women have weak minds because they are stuck in the adolescent phase of life.
11. Women are also more likely to fake an illness.


What a load of crap.

Some facts to keep in mind:
1. Women want the rights but not the responsibilities.
2. If a woman is charged with a serious crime, they let her go scot free with nothing but a slap on the wrist. If a guy did the same, he would either be on death row or in prison the rest of his life.
3. Women tend to make very poor leaders in practicality, though it does look good on paper to have them in such positions. Especially in the military and in politics.
4. Women look at porn more often than men do and are more aroused by it.
5. Women are more likely than men to commit adultery or cheat on their boyfriends.
6. Instead of using qualifications, women tend to use their looks to get jobs or promotions.
7. Women as a whole group tend to be more lazy than men.
8. Women always use men.
9. It is a fact that women lie more often than men do.
10. Women have weak minds because they are stuck in the adolescent phase of life.
11. Women are also more likely to fake an illness.



Even according to my liberal sociology book, 60% of failure to pay child support cases are by women.

If women have weak minds it probably goes back to the fact that Eve was so easily tricked by the serpent. And then she used her body to deceive her husband and cause the fall of man and the expulsion of man from the garden.

Although I'm not sure we ought to hold something that happened nearly 6,000 years ago, against the women of today. I think we probably ought to get over it.

Even according to my liberal sociology book, 60% of failure to pay child support cases are by women.

If women have weak minds it probably goes back to the fact that Eve was so easily tricked by the serpent. And then she used her body to deceive her husband and cause the fall of man and the expulsion of man from the garden.

Although I'm not sure we ought to hold something that happened nearly 6,000 years ago, against the women of today. I think we probably ought to get over it.
What you say is a fact. Unfortunately, if a guy fails to pay child support, he loses his job and goes to prison. If a woman fails to pay child support, nothing happens. And you are right, women fail to pay their child support way more often than men do.

Some facts to keep in mind:
1. Women want the rights but not the responsibilities.
2. If a woman is charged with a serious crime, they let her go scot free with nothing but a slap on the wrist. If a guy did the same, he would either be on death row or in prison the rest of his life.
3. Women tend to make very poor leaders in practicality, though it does look good on paper to have them in such positions. Especially in the military and in politics.
4. Women look at porn more often than men do and are more aroused by it.
5. Women are more likely than men to commit adultery or cheat on their boyfriends.
6. Instead of using qualifications, women tend to use their looks to get jobs or promotions.
7. Women as a whole group tend to be more lazy than men.
8. Women always use men.
9. It is a fact that women lie more often than men do.
10. Women have weak minds because they are stuck in the adolescent phase of life.
11. Women are also more likely to fake an illness.

Prove it.

Film to go with big ass image.
Supervising women (http://www.archive.org/movies/details-db.php?collection=prelinger&collectionid=33552) or this (http://www.archive.org/movies/details-db.php?collection=prelinger&collectionid=00028b) one (and it's first part (http://www.archive.org/movies/details-db.php?collection=prelinger&collectionid=00028a)) about womens opportunity to be homemakers. Rather insulting college degree, really.

Though only those deep deep in denial would debate the historical basis, the idea is to recognize that there is still as struggle to be had.

Prove it.
I have nothing to prove to a liberal. If you would pull your nose out of your college textbook and open your eyes to the realities of the world, you would see this.

Supervising women (http://www.archive.org/movies/details-db.php?collection=prelinger&collectionid=33552) or this (http://www.archive.org/movies/details-db.php?collection=prelinger&collectionid=00028b) one (and it's first part (http://www.archive.org/movies/details-db.php?collection=prelinger&collectionid=00028a)) about womens opportunity to be homemakers. Rather insulting college degree, really.


MST3K did a delicious bit about that exact short film. Hilarious. :)

Supervising women (http://www.archive.org/movies/details-db.php?collection=prelinger&collectionid=33552) or this (http://www.archive.org/movies/details-db.php?collection=prelinger&collectionid=00028b) one (and it's first part (http://www.archive.org/movies/details-db.php?collection=prelinger&collectionid=00028a)) about womens opportunity to be homemakers. Rather insulting college degree, really.

Though only those deep deep in denial would debate the historical basis, the idea is to recognize that there is still as struggle to be had.


And I'm saying everything these people are "Struggling" against are the right things, the way God Himself want's things, and the way things ought to be. If you disagree with me, it's not me you're disagreeing with, but rather, with God Almighty, for the bible is quite clear (in both the new and old testament)

1 Timothy 2:11-15

1 Corinthians 14:33-38

Genesis 3:16

Ephesians 5:22-25



There is nothing wrong, per se, with women working, the problem arises when the family and the home suffer as a result of it. If a woman's working causes her to neglect her motherly/wifely duties, then her husband ought to lay down the law and tell her to quit her job. See most folks moan, "But, but! Both parents need to work for the money!" (And these are the folks who have two mortgages, two SUV vehicles, a vacation home on the beach, and are up to their eyeballs in debt!)

I say to you, "Live within your means and your wife can thus stay home and raise your kids, rather than a government sponsored brainwashing factory which gives them a sub-standard education anyway. Who do you trust more with your kids, you and your wife, or a building full of strangers?"

Prove it.

There is a list of 43 unsupported and unproven things on the first post of this thread, yet you didn't raise any objection to them. Someone brings up another set of things, that don't happen to fit with your world view, and you cry out for proof.

Very interesting.

Yes but what you have to ask is why women don't do all those things?

Not really. The women surveyed are not housewives and high school dropouts. The women surveyed were Lawyers and MBAs. The women surveyed were the kind that go to Stanford law. The competitive cutthroat kind of women. Even these women who had the desire and ability to become a lawyer, get a Wharton MBA etc... Even these women say their goal is "recognition from the company" and not "CEO."

IE, the women are just "not doing it", they don't want to do it. If they don't want to do it, there is not much you can do about it.

How is it that a man can come into a marriage with, say, $5,000,000 and his wife with $5,000 ... and when they divorce, she gets half of his $5,000,000?

Laws like California's necessitate the prenuptial agreement, which can add a bit of weirdness to what should be a very loving relationship.

agreed... if women don't go after the top jobs, then they cannot validly complain that men get all the top jobs.

Keep up the good posts, Free Soviets. It's funny watching sexists try to defend their privilege.

How is it that a man can come into a marriage with, say, $5,000,000 and his wife with $5,000 ... and when they divorce, she gets half of his $5,000,000?

Laws like California's necessitate the prenuptial agreement, which can add a bit of weirdness to what should be a very loving relationship.


Yeah, "Marry me, I love you and want to be with you forever... Oh first sign here, here, and initial there, that's just so you don't get to rob me blind if we get a divorce, which is about a sixty percent likelihood in this country."

(What a way to start off a relationship with a self-fulfilling prophecy, having her sign papers that will keep your wealth away from her, in the event it ends in divorce. It's like going into a game, expecting, planning, and preparing to lose, how then can you not lose?)

How is it that a man can come into a marriage with, say, $5,000,000 and his wife with $5,000 ... and when they divorce, she gets half of his $5,000,000?

Laws like California's necessitate the prenuptial agreement, which can add a bit of weirdness to what should be a very loving relationship.

Not that prenuptial agreements are worth anything anyway....

Hmm i think alot of the women in this thread look hot when mad probably. Maybe they even jiggle. Now get me a sandwhich.

Keep up the good posts, Free Soviets. It's funny watching sexists try to defend their privilege.

It'd be far more entertaining to watch the sexists, such as yourself, try to back up any of those claims. But sadly they never even make an attempt at backing it up. If you were to actually try you'd have to turn tail and run away. Poor poor feminist.

yes, and? are you claiming that the feminine fertility religions are the major ones seen in the world today?
No, but your qualm in that regard is with Christo-Islam, not men.

and what exactly does sociobiology do to justify male privilege? is/ought, man.
Nothing. What it does do is show that the sexes are different and evolved for different purposes. The reason that some of men's visuo-spatial abilities are typically superior to women's is because they were the hunters, and women were the gatherers in the Pleistocene epoch. Humans are are a more patriarchal species in general, as is true with all apes, and that is why it is this way. There are ways to change it and make things more equal, but all this whining hubristic whimpering is going to do jack shit for what you want.

I do not understand why people on this thread feel the need to refute every point made in the original post. Are you suggesting that the inequalities in the world are there for a reason and should therefore no actions of counterbalance should be taken? I am not suggesting we should take rights away from men, quite the contrary; everyone needs to be liberated from gender roles. They are constructs, and quite frankly they don't do anybody any good...

Most of these inequalities are ingrained into society, to the point where men and women alike accept them, and even go so far as to defend them. "Women don't get top jobs because they don't go after them" is an example of this. If, statistically this is true, it is because women have never felt it is "their place" to go into these fields of work. This is simply the gender roles of society boxing us in.

Keep up the good posts, Free Soviets. It's funny watching sexists try to defend their privilege.It'd be far more entertaining to watch the sexists, such as yourself, try to back up any of those claims. But sadly they never even make an attempt at backing it up. If you were to actually try you'd have to turn tail and run away. Poor poor feminist.
That is the most ridiculous reaction I have ever seen. At no point did she make any anti-male comment, nor did she imply that she was at all sexist. And secondly, the points themselves are backed up, just take a look around. Male priviledge is a fact; we're not making it up. Women make about 71 cents for every dollar a man makes for the exact same work.

I don't understand why some people here hate feminism so much. The movement itself is not really a "pro-women" movement, it's simply a "pro-equality" movement.

I don't understand why some people here hate feminism so much. The movement itself is not really a "pro-women" movement, it's simply a "pro-equality" movement.
If it was, then people probably wouldn't mind it so much.

You know, all this 'gender inequality' stuff could have been avoided if the human race was hermaphroditic. [/pointless]

I do not understand why people on this thread feel the need to refute every point made in the original post. Are you suggesting that the inequalities in the world are there for a reason and should therefore no actions of counterbalance should be taken? I am not suggesting we should take rights away from men, quite the contrary; everyone needs to be liberated from gender roles. They are constructs, and quite frankly they don't do anybody any good...

I took the time to refute them because they are BS. For the most part they are simply not true, aren’t male privileges or are simply parts of how men and women differ. Gender roles are not constructs, sorry. They are actually ingrained into you at a level far below anything society can inflict upon you.

Most of these inequalities are ingrained into society, to the point where men and women alike accept them, and even go so far as to defend them. "Women don't get top jobs because they don't go after them" is an example of this. If, statistically this is true, it is because women have never felt it is "their place" to go into these fields of work. This is simply the gender roles of society boxing us in.

It is statistically true. And it is not a result of gender roles boxing them in, it is a result of female nature compared to male nature. Nature, not nurture, fundamentally controls the "gender roles" of this world.

I’ll repeat something I said in another thread. This world does not need equality. Equality sucks. Equality is a steaming pile of bull$417. What this world needs is Equity, and we are essentially there. If anything we've reversed the Equity of this society. Women are given a leg up virtually everywhere. In colleges women are preferred over men to promote "diversity", in MBA schools women make up a highly disproportionate number of applicants. Etc... This society gives women help at every corner to succeed. At yet still there are the people who rally for "equality."

You know, all this 'gender inequality' stuff could have been avoided if the human race was hermaphroditic. [/pointless]
And if that were true we never would've evolved our inzane intelligence in the first place and we wouldn't be arguing this right now.

That is the most ridiculous reaction I have ever seen. At no point did she make any anti-male comment, nor did she imply that she was at all sexist. And secondly, the points themselves are backed up, just take a look around. Male priviledge is a fact; we're not making it up. Women make about 71 cents for every dollar a man makes for the exact same work.

Women make 71 cents for every dollar a man makes for the "exact" same work. And by "exact" same work we mean that the woman works roughly 3/4 the hours, takes more days off and tends to have less experience. Cheers but the wage gap exists because it is justified, not because it is sexist.

And uh, if someone makes a post telling Free Soviets there that his bogus list of "male privilege" is a great post, I'm fairly confident she's a feminist, and IMO being a feminist makes you sexist.

Women make 71 cents for every dollar a man makes for the "exact" same work. And by "exact" same work we mean that the woman works roughly 3/4 the hours, takes more days off and tends to have less experience. Cheers but the wage gap exists because it is justified, not because it is sexist.

And uh, if someone makes a post telling Free Soviets there that his bogus list of "male privilege" is a great post, I'm fairly confident she's a feminist, and IMO being a feminist makes you sexist.
Firstly, thats a giant wage disparity and if you think that is justified than you, my friend, are sexist. Also, feminism does not equal sexism. Like I said previously it is a movement about equality not female domination.

Another point, I would like somebody to biologically prove there is a need for gender roles. I would argue that gender roles are indeed a contruct and have little biological basis. Even if as a whole women have certain biological tendencies, that does not justify the stigma that is often placed upon them; only society is responsible for that.

Firstly, thats a giant wage disparity and if you think that is justified than you, my friend, are sexist. Also, feminism does not equal sexism. Like I said previously it is a movement about equality not female domination.

Read the facts again.

Women work less hours, and are far more likely to be working part-time.
Women take far more days off than men
Most Women leave the workforce for more than a year at the time
Women have fewer years of work experience

Those are the causes, and they justify it. If you refuse to believe that it is justified you are simply willingly blinding yourself to the facts.

There are reasons for everything.

See, the reason women have been historically dominated by men is because human being evolved in a such a way (as with most other mamals) so that the male has higher levels of testosterone, along with a specially adapted brain (men and women have ever so slightly different brains, a women scientist discovered) so as to be strong, to be able to provide for the women and offspring, i.e. through hunting, through protecting them from other males, ect. and women evolved in such a way that they would be able to bear childbirth and nurture children i.e. the presence of breasts, "mother's intuition", whatnot. (Consequently, men are, by this logic, almost completly useless at rearing a child, with the exception of preparing a son for manhood, just as a most mothers are better at teaching a women for womenhood(rather than the opposite sex, wich makes perfect sense))

Both evolved to protect there offspring, to be protective (again, much like many other animals)

And so naturally, women were and are dominated by men.

Now, many feminists will not like this, and will fervently deny it, but it remains a fact.

And, in my opnion, a good thing to, as had it not been arranged this way, I would be less dominant in relationships, which would be worse for me, and humanity would have been extinct centuries ago.

Had it been another arrangement, for example, both sexes were like women, naturally better at rearing children and less agressive and violent, then we would have been destroyed by predators. Had they been both like men, births would be much less frequent, and the sexes would fight, physically on equal strenght, for dominance, resulting in many deaths, and when a child would be born, both of the parents would be likely to abandon it, leaving it to die.


Bearing this in mind, it is in fact better for a women to be the primary raiser of children, and it is irresponsible of them, aswell as the male parent, to let the other raise the children (primarily).

That is my opnion, anyhow.

I'm afraid there is nothing that can be d

(Oh, wait, someone beat me too the punch while I was writting this.

I apologize. I am a slow writter.)

Wait, no they didn't. Read this, it's important.

Read the facts again.

Women work less hours, and are far more likely to be working part-time.
Women take far more days off than men
Most Women leave the workforce for more than a year at the time
Women have fewer years of work experience

Those are the causes, and they justify it. If you refuse to believe that it is justified you are simply willingly blinding yourself to the facts.
If you're going to make claims such as this you'd better provide a source.

Another point, I would like somebody to biologically prove there is a need for gender roles. I would argue that gender roles are indeed a contruct and have little biological basis. Even if as a whole women have certain biological tendencies, that does not justify the stigma that is often placed upon them; only society is responsible for that.

I'd like you to prove that the past few thousand years of humanity have been contrived gender roles that have no purpose, reason or natural cause. Sorry, but burden of proof is on you. Hell look at apes. They end up mimicking our gender roles do they not? Are they creating contrived gender roles as well?

Fact is, most surveyed women say they want to leave their jobs to raise their kids. Most women say their family comes first, their job second. Most women say they come first their job second. Most women say they don't want to be in charge, they just want recognition. It is a fundamental mental difference between men and women that cause this, not contrived gender roles.

If you're going to make claims such as this you'd better provide a source.

Some come from, as I mentioned previously, March Issue Harvard Business Review via Gallup poll of professionals. Others come from a number of available websites. like this one (http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/censusstatistic/a/womenspay.htm)

Another point, I would like somebody to biologically prove there is a need for gender roles. I would argue that gender roles are indeed a contruct and have little biological basis. Even if as a whole women have certain biological tendencies, that does not justify the stigma that is often placed upon them; only society is responsible for that.

The way humans were made (or evolved, if you like), that is to say, yes, biology, is obviously going to contribute to society. To think otherwise would be rediculous.

For example, if people lay eggs, I expect there would likely be many religious beliefs and folklore that would include this, and adoption would be much more frequent, occuring before hatching. THink about it.

I'd like you to prove that the past few thousand years of humanity have been contrived gender roles that have no purpose, reason or natural cause. Sorry, but burden of proof is on you. Hell look at apes. They end up mimicking our gender roles do they not? Are they creating contrived gender roles as well?

Fact is, most surveyed women say they want to leave their jobs to raise their kids. Most women say their family comes first, their job second. Most women say they come first their job second. Most women say they don't want to be in charge, they just want recognition. It is a fundamental mental difference between men and women that cause this, not contrived gender roles.
Ok, so you're saying to me in this post that you, as a man, are biologically "better" than I as a woman. You deserve the priviledge you currently enjoy. There is therefore biological justification for you to be conescending towards me, because genetics say you win, i lose.

Fine, you're entitled to that particular viewpoint. But wouldn't the world be a better place if we could instead of looking at our differences, look at everyone as equally human? Just because certain people (nothing to do with gender or ethnicity) have certain biological traits does not make them less of a person.

This is why feminism exists, to counterbalance the gaping inequalities that exist. It's not trying to steal men's jobs or degrade men in any fashion; it's simply looking out for a parcticular group who has been treated as lesser humans in the past.

Hell look at apes. They end up mimicking our gender roles do they not? Are they creating contrived gender roles as well?
First of all, apes do not mimic humans. They resemble humans, but no mimicry takes place. Second of all, we actually rememble many birds in our gender roles much more so than apes.

And if that were true we never would've evolved our inzane intelligence in the first place and we wouldn't be arguing this right now.

Really? Being hermaphroditic would've stopped humans from developing more intelligence? How do you figure?

I would honestly like to know, though it's a bit thread-hijacky...

Who said anything about being "better", "passive", if you can so be called?

It is simply different, and that fact must be accepted.

In my personal opnion, to defy gender roles utterly and completly ( of course, some things are not quite so much needed now as they were before) is not only inneficent, but morally incorrect. It's not good for the children.

Who said anything about being "better", "passive", if you can so be called?

It is simply different, and that fact must be accepted.

In my personal opnion, to defy gender roles utterly and completly ( of course, some things are not quite so much needed now as they were before) is not only inneficent, but morally incorrect. It's not good for the children.
The privilege that men currently enjoy is not "different". It's a blatant dominance that runs across all areas of western culture.

My question is why does it have to be that way? Simple answer: it doesn't. But men prefer it that way (and they believe that women should prefer it that way too).

33. I will never be expected to change my name upon marriage or questioned if i don't change my name.

There have been so many idiotic responses to Free Soviets' post that I'm not even going to waste my time responding to them. I'm sure that FS knew what s/he was starting in posting such a list, and I admire the resolve to go ahead and post it anyway.

I do have a little anecdote that relates to #33. When my wife and I were getting ready to get married, we went to get a marriage license in New York State, where we were residing at the time. The county clerk explained to us our options regarding last names: we could each keep our names; she could take my name, or a hyphenated combination; or I could take her name (I don't recall that I could take a hypenated combination of names, but maybe I have that backward).

Any other name change required a separate court appearance and was not bundled in with getting married. We each chose to keep our own name.

A bit later, we went to get a marriage license in Florida (the state in which we actually got married). In Florida, you have to wait three days after getting a license before the wedding ceremony unless you are from out of state. However, out-of-state residents have to read an extensive booklet about the importance of marriage as a social institution, and why you shouldn't rush into it or get divorced callously. So we had to sit there for quite a while reading this booklet, and then sign an acknowledgment form.

After we finished with all that, as we were driving off to St. Augustine with our marriage license in hand, it suddenly occurred to us-- oh, crap!-- they'd never asked us about the names! We looked over the marriage license, but it said nothing. Well, we went on and got married, a little annoyed that they hadn't asked us whether she wanted to change her name or not. We figured that, once we got the marriage certificate (which is mailed out and arrives several weeks later), we could go to court in NYS and have her name changed back.

Well, time went by, and the marriage certificate finally arrived. And lo and behold, they had not touched her name. It turns out that in Florida, if a woman wants to change her name when she gets married, she has to take the initiative to tell the clerk that. Otherwise, by default, she retains her own name.

We were a little flabbergasted by that. But happily so.

Really? Being hermaphroditic would've stopped humans from developing more intelligence? How do you figure?
Because intraspecies sexual selection is what led to the evolution of our bulbous brains; hermaphroditism is a very difficult thing to pull off, and pretty much removes many of the benefits of sexual reproduction over asexual, and there are reasons there aren't many hermaphroditic organisms out there.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/censusstatistic/a/womenspay.htm

Ok, so you're saying to me in this post that you, as a man, are biologically "better" than I as a woman.

Nope

You deserve the priviledge you currently enjoy. There is therefore biological justification for you to be conescending towards me, because genetics say you win, i lose.

And you say feminism isn't sexist? Anyway then, my attitude hasn't been condescending and if you see it as such I apologize. However I do not see any of the privileges you claim exist. I am not guaranteed any sort of job because I am a man. I am not guaranteed any sort of promotion because I'm a man. Nothing of the sort exists. I've yet to see any real privilege presented to me.

But then I’m evil because I take the time to hold open doors for women I don’t even know right?

Fine, you're entitled to that particular viewpoint. But wouldn't the world be a better place if we could instead of looking at our differences, look at everyone as equally human? Just because certain people (nothing to do with gender or ethnicity) have certain biological traits does not make them less of a person.

As I noted before that I want EQUITY, not equality. Equality is BS. People are not equal. What we need is for everyone to be treated fairly and given the same chance to succeed. If that means more men will be CEOs because they are biologically more adapt at the job, fine with me.

This is why feminism exists, to counterbalance the gaping inequalities that exist. It's not trying to steal men's jobs or degrade men in any fashion; it's simply looking out for a parcticular group who has been treated as lesser humans in the past.

Right, like the "gaping" inequality of a justified wage difference based on the actual performance gap between men and women. Cheers.

First of all, apes do not mimic humans. They resemble humans, but no mimicry takes place. Second of all, we actually rememble many birds in our gender roles much more so than apes.

Mimic = to resemble closely. Sounds fine to me. In any case all I am saying is that the same basic male/female gender role exists in apes as it does in humans. Ergo, it is natural and biological.

Actually, you can never deny the heavy influence of nurture versus nature when you look at anything, anyone who knows half a shit about psychology knows that trying to pin it on one of the two is about as smart as masturbating with a cheese grater.
The fact does remain that women have some abilities that men do not have, and vice-versa.
Neolithic period females were able to gather about 10 days' worth of food in two hours' time, men were able to gather only 2 days' worth. This is a fact, and I don't think they were that gung-ho about gender roles in noelithic times... and the roles they had were based on how well people did. The reality is, women, on average, are better at housework, they are better and more willing to spend time raising their kids. This said, I think it's wrong to think women can only do housework better than men. Women are actually very good in many other fields. I'll ignore the whole secretary deal, but 'll mention that statistically, women dominate the psychology field in most schools. If you take a college psychology class, odds usually lean to it being mostly women. Women are also making a big rise in Film, as well. Yes, they very often stay in more behind-the-scenes jobs like production, assistant director, post-production, but those are all vital jobs. Also, a little fact for you is that a HUGE amount of early silent films were directed and produced by women using men as talent, often their husbands.
It's very true that many women mae their own choices to stay at home and raise their children instead of continuing work. It's hard to deny that women have a certain knack for it, and most, I believe, do enjoy it. Kids don't stay kids forever, though, and women can and should continue their careers, whether they take a break or not.
Back to historically... Women often do stick to housework that requires more precision (weaving, knitting, cooking, cleaning) than men, because both genetically, and through their upbringing, they have much greater ability in precise tasks. Men, on the other hand, often stick to the jobs that require more strength, and less fine-tuning. Hunting is not an example... very very rarely did ancient hunter-gatherer populations have any sort of meat as a staple, since fruits, nuts, and berries were much easier to find, easier to prepare, and healthier in general.
My basic point is our society IS, in fact, moving out of their more binding gender roles... I believe we can stick to a wider range of intertwining gender roles that DO accept the greater ability of either gender at something, but that do not demean one gender, and that way everything will work better and more efficiently.
One final note on feminism...
Feminism takes many guises. I'll categorize it into two to make my life easier.
There's the feminism that fights narrow definitions of gender roles, discrimination in society (yes, there IS discrimination, although many times it may be slight), and tries to make society see that women are not just worker ants for the home. This feminism aims for equality/equity. I like this kind of feminism, and I support it greatly, even though I'm a man.
The more extreme form of feminism is the good ol' bulldyke man-hater style that most people, even most feminists, heavily disagree with. This kind of feminism tends to be much more confrontational, and often tries to achieve their goal of "equality" by trying to demean man to make him "see how it feels"... this is stupid, fucktarded, and counterproductive, since now you have TWO genders that have to take all the shit...

Yeah, that's my whole schpeal, I hope no one was offended ^^

I took the time to refute them because they are BS. For the most part they are simply not true, aren’t male privileges or are simply parts of how men and women differ. Gender roles are not constructs, sorry. They are actually ingrained into you at a level far below anything society can inflict upon you.



It is statistically true. And it is not a result of gender roles boxing them in, it is a result of female nature compared to male nature. Nature, not nurture, fundamentally controls the "gender roles" of this world.

I’ll repeat something I said in another thread. This world does not need equality. Equality sucks. Equality is a steaming pile of bull$417. What this world needs is Equity, and we are essentially there. If anything we've reversed the Equity of this society. Women are given a leg up virtually everywhere. In colleges women are preferred over men to promote "diversity", in MBA schools women make up a highly disproportionate number of applicants. Etc... This society gives women help at every corner to succeed. At yet still there are the people who rally for "equality."


http://www.newswithviews.com/Roberts/carey46.htm


UNEQUAL PAY FOR EQUAL WORK?



By Carey Roberts
January 14, 2005
NewsWithViews.com

There is no better example of how radical feminism hoodwinks women than the gender “wage gap” controversy.

For years, the Gender Warriors have been on the war path over this issue. Their argument is simple: On average, female employees receive 76 cents for every one dollar paid to male workers. And that difference equals discrimination.

It’s time to blow the whistle on that nonsense. And a just-released book by Warren Farrell does exactly that. Why Men Earn More is chock-full of government wage data and research findings which shows the feminist-driven “pay gap” is an ideological con-job.

Because intraspecies sexual selection is what led to the evolution of our bulbous brains; hermaphroditism is a very difficult thing to pull off, and pretty much removes many of the benefits of sexual reproduction over asexual, and there are reasons there aren't many hermaphroditic organisms out there.

Hm... seems sensible enough! The comment really wasn't made as something deeply inspired or anything. Just the sorta 'if everyone was both genders these problems would be nil' thought, without giving insight into the technicalities of how that would work.

The privilege that men currently enjoy is not "different". It's a blatant dominance that runs across all areas of western culture.

My question is why does it have to be that way? Simple answer: it doesn't. But men prefer it that way (and they believe that women should prefer it that way too).


You are being rediculous. How is there blatant dominance of women in west?

Countless laws protect women from abuse from men, but men will be considered pussies if they go forward because there wife hurt them, and will go to prison for defending themselves.

Many women obtain promotions to make the company look better rather for skill.

It is one of the most free societies for women in the world. All a women has to do is to accuse a man of being sexist to start witch hunt.

This is hardly equality, let alone oppresion of women.


And alot of things don't HAVE to be a way at all. We don't HAVE to give women these freedoms to avoid the end of civilisation, do we? We don't HAVE to have a central goverment to stop the end of humanity.

That is flawed logic.

Ok firstly I have absolutely no problem with men holding doors; theres nothing wrong with a little common courtesy I find that really refreshing.

Secondly your idea of equity is simply not balanced enough. Women are still expected to fit into gender roles that leave them pregnant, barefoot and in the kitchen. Society should accept women as human beings and not overanalyse the differences between the genders.

I'm going to argue again that men are not biologically predisposed to be CEOs. Thats an absolutely ridiculous claim in my opinion. For starters, men vary among themselves more than women differ from men. Therefore there are thousands and thousands of women out there with the intelligence and eloquence to be a CEO, but that simply doesn't happen. It's not about biology it's about attitude, and therefore it tends to go undetected.

I know we live in a progressive world so the inequities could potentially go unseen, but if you take a good look you'd probably be able to see what I'm talking about.

Lastly, I must go, so again, Cheers.

Lastly, I must go, so again, Cheers.


Nice talking to you.

Ok firstly I have absolutely no problem with men holding doors; theres nothing wrong with a little common courtesy I find that really refreshing.



I always try to hold the doors for everybody, male or female. I should say though, that one time I saw a woman struggling with a bunch of books, papers, folders, etc.

I quickly moved forward asking, "Excuse me, ma'am, would you like some help?" She immediately replied (in a sort of tone as though she had something to prove) "NO! I'm fine!" and then proceeded to walk off, stil struggling with all of the things she had to juggle back and forth in her arms.

What does being unwilling to accept help prove?

Mimic = to resemble closely. Sounds fine to me. In any case all I am saying is that the same basic male/female gender role exists in apes as it does in humans. Ergo, it is natural and biological.
If that's what you mean, then that's fine. Mimic is usually used to mean miming or imitating, which other apes do not do to others. And, no, though they are relative, humans gender roles are actually kind of anomalous among primates. But yes, there are loose gender roles in humans. But not to the extent that is often believed by those who say that sexism is biologically justified.

Secondly your idea of equity is simply not balanced enough. Women are still expected to fit into gender roles that leave them pregnant, barefoot and in the kitchen. Society should accept women as human beings and not overanalyse the differences between the genders.

I accept women as human beings. How does that acceptance stop me from acknowledging that most women would rather stay home and take care of their children than work 80 hours a week and show up on weekends in order to get that next promotion? Most women find that as their natural desire. That it makes them happier. I don't see anything wrong with that. Nor do I see anything wrong with the woman who decides to get her MBA from Tuck and actively pursue a position of power. Different women have different desires, but it is foolish to pretend that a 50-50 split in all jobs is the natural way of things.

I'm going to argue again that men are not biologically predisposed to be CEOs. Thats an absolutely ridiculous claim in my opinion. For starters, men vary among themselves more than women differ from men. Therefore there are thousands and thousands of women out there with the intelligence and eloquence to be a CEO, but that simply doesn't happen. It's not about biology it's about attitude, and therefore it tends to go undetected.

Men tend to be more ambitious and want the job more. That leads to more men being CEOs. There are plenty of women out there who are CEOs. But then there also the women like, forgot the name, who quit her job as the head of a major lawfirm to spend more time raising her children. If had the HBR on hand I'd have the name... but eh, I do seriously recommend you see if a library, or your college library, carries it. Its a very interesting article that goes into the question in depth.

I know we live in a progressive world so the inequities could potentially go unseen, but if you take a good look you'd probably be able to see what I'm talking about.

Lastly, I must go, so again, Cheers.

Ah aha, I will make it catch one. ;)

Cheers, have a good day.

I always try to hold the doors for everybody, male or female. I should say though, that one time I saw a woman struggling with a bunch of books, papers, folders, etc.

I quickly moved forward asking, "Excuse me, ma'am, would you like some help?" She immediately replied (in a sort of tone as though she had something to prove) "NO! I'm fine!" and then proceeded to walk off, stil struggling with all of the things she had to juggle back and forth in her arms.

What does being unwilling to accept help prove?

A very good point.

I always try to hold the doors for everybody, male or female. I should say though, that one time I saw a woman struggling with a bunch of books, papers, folders, etc.

I quickly moved forward asking, "Excuse me, ma'am, would you like some help?" She immediately replied (in a sort of tone as though she had something to prove) "NO! I'm fine!" and then proceeded to walk off, stil struggling with all of the things she had to juggle back and forth in her arms.

What does being unwilling to accept help prove?

A fairly attractive girl dropped a dollar once when she was getting change to use a copy machine. I picked it up, proceeded to offer it her and told her she had dropped it. All I got in return was "I'm not falling for anything that cheesy and I'm not giving you my number."

Perhaps in your case the girl thought you were hitting on her when you offered to help her? Eh, I got an extra dollar out of my attempt at kindness.

A fairly attractive girl dropped a dollar once when she was getting change to use a copy machine. I picked it up, proceeded to offer it her and told her she had dropped it. All I got in return was "I'm not falling for anything that cheesy and I'm not giving you my number."

Perhaps in your case the girl thought you were hitting on her when you offered to help her? Eh, I got an extra dollar out of my attempt at kindness.

Again, very odd indeed.

Most women I know are not like that at all.

A fairly attractive girl dropped a dollar once when she was getting change to use a copy machine. I picked it up, proceeded to offer it her and told her she had dropped it. All I got in return was "I'm not falling for anything that cheesy and I'm not giving you my number."

Perhaps in your case the girl thought you were hitting on her when you offered to help her? Eh, I got an extra dollar out of my attempt at kindness.


It was an older woman actually (maybe 10-15 years my senior) and while I do indeed tend to be much more attracted to older women than women my own age, that woman didn't know it, and my tone was nothing but friendly and my mannerisms were such that it was obvious I only wanted to help.


She just didn't want to lower herself and take help from a man, after all, she was a woman, what do women need from men? (That is how a radical feminist, which I imagine she was, sees things)

Great post Free Soviets.

So much for all feminists wanting to "oppress men" huh?


Probably? Bah. Go read the March issue of the Harvard Business review. Survey by Gallup of Men and Women with MBAs. What did they find out? Men sought out the higher jobs, women didn't. Men listed themselves as ambitious, women didn't. Men made it their goal to reach a powerful position, women didn't. The skew is not "by males, for males, down with women", the skew is "more men apply, more men want it, and more men work for it"

Maybe that's because men are conditioned/expected to be more career oriented and ambitious? :rolleyes: A man is expected to be "powerful" in some weird all hunting all fighting way.

Some facts to keep in mind:
1. Women want the rights but not the responsibilities.
2. If a woman is charged with a serious crime, they let her go scot free with nothing but a slap on the wrist. If a guy did the same, he would either be on death row or in prison the rest of his life.
3. Women tend to make very poor leaders in practicality, though it does look good on paper to have them in such positions. Especially in the military and in politics.
4. Women look at porn more often than men do and are more aroused by it.
5. Women are more likely than men to commit adultery or cheat on their boyfriends.
6. Instead of using qualifications, women tend to use their looks to get jobs or promotions.
7. Women as a whole group tend to be more lazy than men.
8. Women always use men.
9. It is a fact that women lie more often than men do.
10. Women have weak minds because they are stuck in the adolescent phase of life.
11. Women are also more likely to fake an illness.
I'll try to address some of this.

1. What do you mean by this? This is a rather general statement about some really big things, and to speak it in such a simplistic manner without any explanation is more confusing than anything else.

2.

3. Yet, there have been some VERY good female leaders in Western history. Queen Elizabeth, Margaret Thatcher, any number of feminist leaders throughout history. It's difficult to make that argument.

4. Is there a study for this? I find this difficult to believe. But that idea aside, what difference does that make?

5. Without a study, this sounds more like a bitter ex-boyfriend.

6. If the men doing the hiring are weak enough to only look at the appearance of a woman then the flaws in the system are deeper than this, even if it's true.

7. Without proof, this just sounds like a bitter mysoginist.

8. Always is a dangerous word. One only fools use.

9. Facts require sources. If you say something is a fact and then refuse to produce proof, you make yourself out to be a bit of a liar.

10. This is what caught my interest. Dr. Kohlberg, a famous psychologist who studied moral development in human beings, believed that women were permenantly stuck in the 3-4 stage of moral development; some might reach the 5th stage, but he believed none would ever reach the 6th stage. He came under criticism for this obviously sexist approach, and was eventually forced to permit women into his study on moral development [he had allowed only men into his study beforehand because of this preconceived notion]. A woman by the name of Gilligan later did more work on women in moral development; you can find a website about this stuff here (http://tigger.uic.edu/~lnucci/MoralEd/overview.html). It's this sort of work that actually led to the development of feminine, or Care, Ethics.

11. Again, you need proof, or else this "more likely" stuff sounds like hot air.

I don't understand why some people here hate feminism so much. The movement itself is not really a "pro-women" movement, it's simply a "pro-equality" movement.
You haven't read the SCUM Manifesto, have you? No? Then you don't understand.

Maybe that's because men are conditioned/expected to be more career oriented and ambitious? :rolleyes: A man is expected to be "powerful" in some weird all hunting all fighting way.

Exactly.

Maybe that's because men are conditioned/expected to be more career oriented and ambitious? :rolleyes: A man is expected to be "powerful" in some weird all hunting all fighting way.

As I said earlier. The poll was of the women whom you would most definitely expect to be the ones pursuing positions of power. And a small amount of them were. Most weren't. Or do you want to tell me all these women who managed to become lawyers and executives are really just sheep and you are better than them? I wouldn't be at all surprised if a lot of these women claim to be feminists either.

Doesn't particularly matter, the data is the data. Multiple explanations can be offered. You can insist on believing that gender roles are artificial constructs that don't exist. And I can continue to take the more reasonable, imo, explanation that most women would rather raise their children than be a Fortune 500 CEO.

How is it that a man can come into a marriage with, say, $5,000,000 and his wife with $5,000 ... and when they divorce, she gets half of his $5,000,000?

Laws like California's necessitate the prenuptial agreement, which can add a bit of weirdness to what should be a very loving relationship.
That's because there's no love in California. Everything there is about greed and money.

Not that prenuptial agreements are worth anything anyway....
they have the force of law.

No, but your qualm in that regard is with Christo-Islam, not men.


Nothing. What it does do is show that the sexes are different and evolved for different purposes. The reason that some of men's visuo-spatial abilities are typically superior to women's is because they were the hunters, and women were the gatherers in the Pleistocene epoch. Humans are are a more patriarchal species in general, as is true with all apes, and that is why it is this way. There are ways to change it and make things more equal, but all this whining hubristic whimpering is going to do jack shit for what you want.
Actually your last point about the pleistocene has never been proven. Its always been based on unprovable assumptions.

I do not understand why people on this thread feel the need to refute every point made in the original post. Are you suggesting that the inequalities in the world are there for a reason and should therefore no actions of counterbalance should be taken? I am not suggesting we should take rights away from men, quite the contrary; everyone needs to be liberated from gender roles. They are constructs, and quite frankly they don't do anybody any good...

Most of these inequalities are ingrained into society, to the point where men and women alike accept them, and even go so far as to defend them. "Women don't get top jobs because they don't go after them" is an example of this. If, statistically this is true, it is because women have never felt it is "their place" to go into these fields of work. This is simply the gender roles of society boxing us in.
I would with that because that is what has been proven to be true throughout human history. Is that this stuff is determined entirely by culture rather than nature.

Women make 71 cents for every dollar a man makes for the "exact" same work. And by "exact" same work we mean that the woman works roughly 3/4 the hours, takes more days off and tends to have less experience. Cheers but the wage gap exists because it is justified, not because it is sexist.

And uh, if someone makes a post telling Free Soviets there that his bogus list of "male privilege" is a great post, I'm fairly confident she's a feminist, and IMO being a feminist makes you sexist.
that's true. However, it is only because of the cultural biases and misconceptions that this happens. Ironically, it is women who prefer to keep it that way. Why? Becuase it gives them an almost free ride through life while men are forced to slave away and then give part of their money to some lazy female.

Read the facts again.

Women work less hours, and are far more likely to be working part-time.
Women take far more days off than men
Most Women leave the workforce for more than a year at the time
Women have fewer years of work experience

Those are the causes, and they justify it. If you refuse to believe that it is justified you are simply willingly blinding yourself to the facts.
What you say is true but you need to balance it with the facts that cause the last two.
The last two are caused by bias in the workforce. We don't know that women do this willingly. In many jobs, women are forced to take that much time off.

There are reasons for everything.

See, the reason women have been historically dominated by men is because human being evolved in a such a way (as with most other mamals) so that the male has higher levels of testosterone, along with a specially adapted brain (men and women have ever so slightly different brains, a women scientist discovered) so as to be strong, to be able to provide for the women and offspring, i.e. through hunting, through protecting them from other males, ect. and women evolved in such a way that they would be able to bear childbirth and nurture children i.e. the presence of breasts, "mother's intuition", whatnot. (Consequently, men are, by this logic, almost completly useless at rearing a child, with the exception of preparing a son for manhood, just as a most mothers are better at teaching a women for womenhood(rather than the opposite sex, wich makes perfect sense))

Both evolved to protect there offspring, to be protective (again, much like many other animals)

And so naturally, women were and are dominated by men.

Now, many feminists will not like this, and will fervently deny it, but it remains a fact.

And, in my opnion, a good thing to, as had it not been arranged this way, I would be less dominant in relationships, which would be worse for me, and humanity would have been extinct centuries ago.

Had it been another arrangement, for example, both sexes were like women, naturally better at rearing children and less agressive and violent, then we would have been destroyed by predators. Had they been both like men, births would be much less frequent, and the sexes would fight, physically on equal strenght, for dominance, resulting in many deaths, and when a child would be born, both of the parents would be likely to abandon it, leaving it to die.


Bearing this in mind, it is in fact better for a women to be the primary raiser of children, and it is irresponsible of them, aswell as the male parent, to let the other raise the children (primarily).

That is my opnion, anyhow.

I'm afraid there is nothing that can be d

(Oh, wait, someone beat me too the punch while I was writting this.

I apologize. I am a slow writter.)

Wait, no they didn't. Read this, it's important.

Sorry but this is another misconception. Testerone has nothing to do with making men stronger. What it actually does is just make us hornier. Its actually the male love hormone. It causes us men to fall in love with women. That is all it does. You are thinking about the other hormones that are produced in the male body.

As a highschool freshman, I had Algebra in the morning. I found it really hard - heh, I'm not too smart in the morning, and ironically, mathematics, my worst subject, was always first or second period every year of highschool. Anyway, my teacher, Mr. Younker, would never call on a boy if a girl raised her hand. Of couse, he also liked to stand next to them, give them shoulder massages and talk with them before and after class. Sexism cuts both ways, kids.

Uh... that's not sexism, that's sexual harassment.

The way humans were made (or evolved, if you like), that is to say, yes, biology, is obviously going to contribute to society. To think otherwise would be rediculous.

For example, if people lay eggs, I expect there would likely be many religious beliefs and folklore that would include this, and adoption would be much more frequent, occuring before hatching. THink about it.
apples and oranges.

Well that list was obviously written by a female. Or a metrosexualfeminazimalelite.

As a highschool freshman, I had Algebra in the morning. I found it really hard - heh, I'm not too smart in the morning, and ironically, mathematics, my worst subject, was always first or second period every year of highschool. Anyway, my teacher, Mr. Younker, would never call on a boy if a girl raised her hand. Of couse, he also liked to stand next to them, give them shoulder massages and talk with them before and after class. Sexism cuts both ways, kids.


That man ought to be in jail, he's a disgusting pig and has no place being around young women, none at all.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/10/business/10scene.html?ex=1402286400&en=b93735dbb93900c3&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND

The wage gap is a myth. The University of Michigan did a study that just about proves it. Factor in education, experience, tenure, hours worked, and the all-important job choice, and a woman makes $.99 to the dollar that a man makes. That's statistically insignificant. The wage gap isn't quite made up, but it's a marvelous example of lying with statistics.

That having been said, way too much of society is slanted in women's favor. Just because women have historically been at a disadvantage doesn't mean that we have to skew the playing field against men now. I sure as hell didn't oppress women in 1900 or 1750 or whenever the fuck they were oppressed. This is not to say that women have every advantage; this is to say that the right way to even the playing field is not to exacerbate areas where men have a disadvantage.

Men have advantages that are mostly historical and survive because of our history. Mot of women's advantages seem to be recently developed. The last 30-40 years have seen divorce go from virtual taboo to an everyday occurence. Tell me in what way men have the upper hand...in the West, anyway. Women get "half" of a man's assets while often not having to give up any of their own; men are saddled with debt, even if the debt was the woman's fault. On top of that, women collect child support and alimony, which is Latin for "crime against humanity." Under no circumstances is a court justified in awarding alimony to anybody. Ever. And if a woman plays her cards right, she can pretty well keep her ex-husband from ever seeing his kids again.

It's also virtually impossible to execute a woman no matter how many people she murders. A woman could marry 10 men, kill all of them, and would not get the death penalty; a man who kills his wife gets death because the judge looks for a technicality to declare it a double murder. Scott Peterson will either rot in jail or fry to the cheers of onlookers; had Laci killed Scott, there's no way in hell she would have gotten death.

On one hand, men have these historical advantages, and old habits die hard. On the other hand, we try to "counterbalance" that by giving women more advantages. We call it "politically correct." The solution is this: Do whatever we reasonably can to do away with these historical advantages. Make it cool to elect women to public office. Listen to a woman CEO. I would. If she had a good message. Same as for a man. At the same time, we need to register women for the draft, give fathers more right (provided they take responsibilities to go with them, and a number of them do,) abolish alimony, encourage people to report rape and domestic violence no matter who they are and who their assailant is, and give boys the same help we have started giving girls in the classroom. It's all so simple, people. Don't go making it more difficult than it has to be.

And those of you who call yourselves feminists need to take back your word from the radical nutjobs who are frankly far worse than the people they claim to oppose. This goes true for those of you who call yourselves just about anything controversial.

That man ought to be in jail, he's a disgusting pig and has no place being around young women, none at all.
I would agree, because that constitutes sexual discrimination. And he is causing harm to all of his students. The males, because he is neglecting them which is very unprofessional, and the women because he is grading them based on sex.

Actually your last point about the pleistocene has never been proven. Its always been based on unprovable assumptions.
Yeah...umm, were you aware that though it is mostly conjectural, there is a general consensus among palaeoanthropologists?

Sorry but this is another misconception. Testerone has nothing to do with making men stronger. What it actually does is just make us hornier. Its actually the male love hormone. It causes us men to fall in love with women. That is all it does. You are thinking about the other hormones that are produced in the male body.
Sorry, but this is another instance of not-quite-rightness. Testosterone does much more than influence sexual attraction. And it has different effects in different animals. Hyena females actually have more testosterone than the males. Here, let Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone) enlighten you. I'm too lazy to instruct you on endocrinology right now.