NationStates Jolt Archive


Do you think germans are still nazis?

Dominicanian Empire
03-03-2005, 14:56
because of they're hanging out the national flag? or they are patriotism? what do you think?
Creas
03-03-2005, 14:59
What are you on? :headbang:

The Nazi flag was never the same as the German flag.

I lived in Berlin for a year and they are most harsh on nazi sympathisers.

It would be more accurate to say that Americans that hang out the american flag are all like those american soldiers who abuse Iraqi prisoners, because they both have the same flag.
Pure Metal
03-03-2005, 15:00
no
Independent Homesteads
03-03-2005, 15:00
What are you on? :headbang:

The Nazi flag was never the same as the German flag.

I lived in Berlin for a year and they are most harsh on nazi sympathisers.

It would be more accurate to say that Americans that hang out the american flag are all like those american soldiers who abuse Iraqi prisoners, because they both have the same flag.

nazism appears to be on the rise across europe, including in germany.
That said, there are nazis in Britain and that doesn't mean that Brits are nazis.
Saxnot
03-03-2005, 15:01
That was so badly conjugated i think you gave me cancer!

Germany does have neo-nazi nutcases, but they're in the minority. Flying your nation's colours is simple patriotism, nothing anyone should take offence to.
Kellarly
03-03-2005, 15:02
What are you on? :headbang:

The Nazi flag was never the same as the German flag.

I lived in Berlin for a year and they are most harsh on nazi sympathisers.

It would be more accurate to say that Americans that hang out the american flag are all like those american soldiers who abuse Iraqi prisoners, because they both have the same flag.

I don't think he is getting at that to be honest. There is still a very deep seated feeling here in Germany, from what I have talked to my flat mates about, that people get suspicious of you if you fly the German flag outside your house and walk around yelling about being patriotic and be proud of Germany.

Of course, in the states its the norm to see the stars and stripes flying outside most houses. In britain i think its less so, but occasionally, like during the world cup etc, the flags are out in force.
Saxnot
03-03-2005, 15:02
They're flying the flag of the FDR, not the Third Reich.
Dominicanian Empire
03-03-2005, 15:02
What are you on? :headbang:

The Nazi flag was never the same as the German flag.

I lived in Berlin for a year and they are most harsh on nazi sympathisers.

It would be more accurate to say that Americans that hang out the american flag are all like those american soldiers who abuse Iraqi prisoners, because they both have the same flag.i'm from germany :rolleyes: if i hang my flag out of the window, i hear some turkish or albanian people saying: oh, you're a nazi for sure! thats very annoying!!!!!! :headbang: :sniper:


sry for my english :)
Kellarly
03-03-2005, 15:05
i'm from germany :rolleyes: if i hang my flag out of the window, i hear some turkish or albanian people saying: oh, you're a nazi for sure! thats very annoying!!!!!! :headbang: :sniper:


sry for my english :)


Kein problem, ich weiss was du meinst. Wenn ein Deutsche sagt: "Ich bin stolz zu Deutsch sein." alle leute sagt du muss Nazi sein. Es ist total verruckt!
Dedtris
03-03-2005, 15:07
What the heck is Germany
Dominicanian Empire
03-03-2005, 15:08
Kein problem, ich weiss was du meinst. Wenn ein Deutsche sagt: "Ich bin stolz zu Deutsch sein." alle leute sagt du muss Nazi sein. Es ist total verruckt!stimmt. diese leute sind idioten, die keine ahnung haben!
only because of our past, which we couldn't change.
Greater Wallachia
03-03-2005, 15:08
I think the world has good reason to be wary of the success of the far right in Germany. Check out the state election resluts for the DVP in Saxony and be afraid. That being said, i think Germans have done a pretty good job beating themselves up for the past. But he far right is stirring up the past to present Germans as the victims of the west (the Dresden holocaust bombing WTF?)

As the number of people who lived thru the war becomes less, there is a greater chance of national pride (which is cool, who hasn't sung God Save the Queen at English world cup games) becoming something more dangerous. Lets face it thier track record isn't very good.
Kellarly
03-03-2005, 15:13
stimmt. diese leute sind idioten, die keine ahnung haben!
only because of our past, which we couldn't change.

Ich glaube schon dass die meisten Deutsche leuten sind stolz auf Firmen von Deutschland (z.B. Mercedes, BMW) oder Leute von Deutschland (z.B. Gunter Grass, der Fussball Manschaft), aber Sie sind nicht stolz von Deutschland.

Entschuldigung für die scheiss grammatik!

English translation:

I think most Germans are proud of firms from Germany (exp. Mercedes, BMW) or people from Germany (exp. Gunter Grass), rather than be proud of Germany itself.
Mikes World
03-03-2005, 15:13
Ok, I'm German as well. And I'm proud to be one. It's just to common that people judge Germany by the worst 12 years in our history. And there's a clear difference between displaying the black-red-gold flag or the black white red flag from the kaiserreich and the Nazi flag.

We are no fucking Nazis and just because I think that Prussia is one of the greatest states that history has seen I'm no Nazi. But people dont seem to understand that.
Trilateral Commission
03-03-2005, 15:15
Albania fails.
Bodies Without Organs
03-03-2005, 15:16
What the heck is Germany

Quoted for the sake of posterity.
Kellarly
03-03-2005, 15:17
which is cool, who hasn't sung God Save the Queen at English world cup games

I never sing the national anthem, in fact i've hardly ever stood for it...its not that I'm not proud to be british, i'm just not subjegating myself before one family deemed to be above all others.
Rabid Rabbit
03-03-2005, 15:18
so what if germany screwed up once and allied themselves to idiots, then started another war because WE (the Ailled powers) Kinda screwed their economy up BADly. Of the few germans I've meet they seem to be friendly. I think they just were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Saying all Germans are Nazis is like saying all Irish and muslims are terrorists. Untrue, ive meet many arabs and irish and they hate the terrorism as much as most US and British people, whom by the way are not the only terrorist victims. Europe has had terrorist problems for a long time and now America realized what has been happening over there. We decided to attack their country which got a few terrorists, but i dunt really think we solved the problem. GERMANS ARE NOT NAZIS. just a funny generalization made by ignorant people.
The South Island
03-03-2005, 15:19
Branding all Germans as Nazis (or those being synonymous) is exactly the same type of scaremongering which the Nazis capitalized on in their pursuit of power.

For shame! :mp5:
The odd one
03-03-2005, 15:19
I think the world has good reason to be wary of the success of the far right in Germany. Check out the state election resluts for the DVP in Saxony and be afraid. That being said, i think Germans have done a pretty good job beating themselves up for the past. But he far right is stirring up the past to present Germans as the victims of the west (the Dresden holocaust bombing WTF?)

As the number of people who lived thru the war becomes less, there is a greater chance of national pride (which is cool, who hasn't sung God Save the Queen at English world cup games) becoming something more dangerous. Lets face it thier track record isn't very good.
that's not fair, it was the Kaisers fault (based on the idea that ww1 was a major part in the nazi's rise to power.

to D.E; ich kann das vestanden, wenn ich Irisch sprechen leute konnten "du bist in dem IRA" sagen. Auch wie schreibt man ein umlaut am computer?
United East Asia
03-03-2005, 15:19
Black Red and Gold has nothing to do with the Nazis, jeez. That flag goes back to 1848, to the revolution, to the ideas of liberty and equality, to the dream of a democratic and free Germany.


Though I've seen nazis in Germany use the old imperial navy flag... idiots.

Also, keep one thing in mind. The jump to the far right has happened long before the NPD in Germany even existed. Take Le Pen in France, that guy has been around for some time.


Umlaute am Comp gehen für Leute mit deutschen Tastaturen ganz leicht :p
Für alle anderen gibt's nur eine Möglichkeit:

Ä = alt+ 0196
ä = alt+ 0227
Ö = alt+ 0214
ö = alt+ 0246
Ü = alt+ 0220
ü = alt+ 0252
ß = alt+ 0223

Never tried it on an English machine though lol.
Kellarly
03-03-2005, 15:20
that's not fair, it was the Kaisers fault (based on the idea that ww1 was a major part in the nazi's rise to power.

to D.E; ich kann das vestanden, wenn ich Irisch sprechen leute konnten "du bist in dem IRA" sagen. Auch wie schreibt man ein umlaut am computer?

You can write an umlaut like
ä = ae
ü = ue
ö = oe

And as your irish i can sympathise. I'm english myself, but i had a scottish friends of mine who lived in Dublin stay with me for a while, and just because they had irish number plates on their car they got soooo much abuse. And when i stood up for them i got it too! Admittedly i come from near manchester and this was shortly after the bomb in '98 but still...
Mogu
03-03-2005, 15:22
germany? patriotism???......lol....good one :D
but its true that groups like the dvp are getting stronger in some regions.
sad but true but you can also say this about other countries like france and austria.
but i think that because most of the people are pretty fed up with their government and there is one thing that you have to admit about right wing groups: they are very well organized
Creas
03-03-2005, 15:23
Jetzt, nur Deutsch hier! :p
United East Asia
03-03-2005, 15:25
Oder ae, ue, oe, genau... Es gibt aber deutsche Namen bei denen oe nicht als ö gesprochen wird, nur die haben meistens dann oë... meistens... nicht immer...


Anyway...
Kellarly
03-03-2005, 15:25
Jetzt, nur Deutsch hier! :p

Klasse, aber nicht zu kompliziert! :p :D
United East Asia
03-03-2005, 15:27
Man spricht Deutsch... :cool:
Psylos
03-03-2005, 15:27
They're not nazi but anyone who is proud of a national flag is pretty stupid. The people are the same across the border.
The odd one
03-03-2005, 15:36
They're not nazi but anyone who is proud of a national flag is pretty stupid. The people are the same across the border.
being proud of your national flag is the same as being proud of your language, culture, history, family or any number of other things. the flag represents the people of the country, so by being proud of your flag you are proud of the people in your country. also people are different from town to town and from street to street, i cant see how people can be seen as the same. similar, maybe, but not the same.
Aeruillin
03-03-2005, 15:38
because of they're hanging out the national flag? or they are patriotism? what do you think?

I'm a German, and I'm not. Next question.

Then again, I'm also rabidly anti-patriot and anti-nationalist.
Aeruillin
03-03-2005, 15:42
What the heck is Germany

Smallish country right bang in the center of Europe, between the Netherlands, Czechia, Switzerland and Denmark (and some others, these are just the four sides)

Europe is this funny-shaped peninsula across the Atlantic from where you probably live. You might have heard of it once or twice.
Psylos
03-03-2005, 15:43
being proud of your national flag is the same as being proud of your language, culture, history, family or any number of other things. the flag represents the people of the country, so by being proud of your flag you are proud of the people in your country. also people are different from town to town and from street to street, i cant see how people can be seen as the same. similar, maybe, but not the same.
You didn't achieve your culture, history, language or family. You have no reason to be proud of it. You have a reason to be proud of things you achieve, like volonteering for the red cross or cooking the best cake of your neightborhood, because that is something you did.
The culture you were born into is not necessarily relevant to what you achieve. Many people live in different cultures than the ones they were born into. Many people have several languages. Many people travel from town to town. They can be proud of them for learning something different than what is the easy path.
Nowadays, the internet and fast transportation are making those cultural boundaries more and more irrelevant.
Grays Harbor
03-03-2005, 15:51
Ok, I'm German as well. And I'm proud to be one. It's just to common that people judge Germany by the worst 12 years in our history. And there's a clear difference between displaying the black-red-gold flag or the black white red flag from the kaiserreich and the Nazi flag.

We are no fucking Nazis and just because I think that Prussia is one of the greatest states that history has seen I'm no Nazi. But people dont seem to understand that.


Here, Here! My Grandparents are from Danzig (still occupied by Poland since the end of WW2, by the way), and they got out before Hitler and his jolly-boys took over in '39. I live in America, but I fly my German (B/R/G) and Danzig flags as much as my US flag. Flying ones national flag is in no way connected with being a stinking Nazi.

Some of you seem to be obsessing on the point that if conservatives come to power in Germany, that MUST mean that the nazi's are on the rise again. Poppycock! If the conservatives come to power in the UK, do you obsess that the parliament is going to try and re-establish the British Empire? If the far left comes to power in France, do you obsess that they want to break out the guillotine again and start up on removing the heads of the opposition?

Being German, and being proud of being German DOES NOT equate to being a nazi. Nazism was an aberation, one which the Germans as a people have been paying for for 60 years now, even though the vast majority of Germans were born AFTER 1945 and had nothing to do with it.

Get over your obsessions with nazi's. "German" does not equal nazi
The odd one
03-03-2005, 16:01
You didn't achieve your culture, history, language or family. You have no reason to be proud of it. You have a reason to be proud of things you achieve, like volonteering for the red cross or cooking the best cake of your neightborhood, because that is something you did.
The culture you were born into is not necessarily relevant to what you achieve. Many people live in different cultures than the ones they were born into. Many people have several languages. Many people travel from town to town. They can be proud of them for learning something different than what is the easy path.
Nowadays, the internet and fast transportation are making those cultural boundaries more and more irrelevant.
i am proud of these things which i did not achieve. other people 'achieved' them and i am proud of those people and my association with them. i am very proud of taking part in my culture, studying my history and being part of my family; things which i have 'achieved'. also the melding of cultures does not make cultural boundaries "irrelevant" as these cross-cultural sharing of ideas gives rise to new cultures and sub-cultures and staying with your traditional national culture is not always the "easy path", in my opinion.
Very Angry Rabbits
03-03-2005, 16:15
Black Red and Gold has nothing to do with the Nazis, jeez. That flag goes back to 1848, to the revolution, to the ideas of liberty and equality, to the dream of a democratic and free Germany.


Though I've seen nazis in Germany use the old imperial navy flag... idiots.

Also, keep one thing in mind. The jump to the far right has happened long before the NPD in Germany even existed. Take Le Pen in France, that guy has been around for some time.


Umlaute am Comp gehen für Leute mit deutschen Tastaturen ganz leicht :p
Für alle anderen gibt's nur eine Möglichkeit:

Ä = alt+ 0196
ä = alt+ 0227
Ö = alt+ 0214
ö = alt+ 0246
Ü = alt+ 0220
ü = alt+ 0252
ß = alt+ 0223

Never tried it on an English machine though lol.Doesn't work on my machine in the US
Jester III
03-03-2005, 16:16
i am proud of these things which i did not achieve. other people 'achieved' them and i am proud of those people and my association with them. i am very proud of taking part in my culture, studying my history and being part of my family; things which i have 'achieved'.
Following this logic you should also be ashamed by that which people of your culture did.
I am with Psylos on this one, be proud of what you achieve.
Thats a thing that always bugs me with White Pride and its cousins. Most members are total dropouts who achieved nothing in their life and just have their skin color and culture to be proud of. Not that they contribute to that culture.
The odd one
03-03-2005, 16:16
Doesn't work on my machine in the US
yeah, doesn't work here in Ireland either.
Kellarly
03-03-2005, 16:18
yeah, doesn't work here in Ireland either.

Well if you really want to get an umlaut, you could always type it in Word (use the insert symbol function) then copy paste into here...but...thats just too much effort! :D As i said though, just write

ae = ä

ue = ü

oe = ö

makes the same sound when you pronounce it so...
Dominicanian Empire
03-03-2005, 16:22
They're not nazi but anyone who is proud of a national flag is pretty stupid. The people are the same across the border.
du you want to see your flag burning?
The odd one
03-03-2005, 16:25
Following this logic you should also be ashamed by that which people of your culture did.
I am with Psylos on this one, be proud of what you achieve.
Thats a thing that always bugs me with White Pride and its cousins. Most members are total dropouts who achieved nothing in their life and just have their skin color and culture to be proud of. Not that they contribute to that culture.
I can be proud and ashamed at the same time. The cultures that have gone before are the foundation of our current/future cultures, we should take with us the good and leave the bad, by being proud of our nation's/world's achievements and ashamed of their failings we can learn and develop a better way of life. That said, i agree with you about whitepride etc. because i believe that we can learn a lot from other cultures, and should be proud if we adopt some of their ideas, I see culture as another path to personal improvement. that's where i'm coming from and i'm starting to see where you are coming from.
Greater Scotia
03-03-2005, 16:25
Foolish question.
The odd one
03-03-2005, 16:27
Well if you really want to get an umlaut, you could always type it in Word (use the insert symbol function) then copy paste into here...but...thats just too much effort! :D As i said though, just write

ae = ä

ue = ü

oe = ö

makes the same sound when you pronounce it so...
i tried it in word and it didn't work. :( thanks for the help i'll be sure to use that. :)
Frangland
03-03-2005, 16:32
I don't think he is getting at that to be honest. There is still a very deep seated feeling here in Germany, from what I have talked to my flat mates about, that people get suspicious of you if you fly the German flag outside your house and walk around yelling about being patriotic and be proud of Germany.

Of course, in the states its the norm to see the stars and stripes flying outside most houses. In britain i think its less so, but occasionally, like during the world cup etc, the flags are out in force.


The Union Jack or the English, Scottish, Welsh flags?
Kellarly
03-03-2005, 16:36
The Union Jack or the English, Scottish, Welsh flags?

Well in my case it was the St. Georges Cross (interesting we have the flag of a turkish saint but hey its all good...), which you don't see too often, except at certain times like i said...

In scotland you'll see the flag of St.Andrew (i think thats the right saint isn't it??!) and in wales you will see the welsh flag more often, but its still not as prominantly displayed as the s&s were when i went to the states. they seemed to be one every house!
Rnb haters
03-03-2005, 16:39
nazism appears to be on the rise across europe, including in germany.
That said, there are nazis in Britain and that doesn't mean that Brits are nazis.
No, in britain there are people who think they are nazis, but really they are just racists and xenophobes
Kellarly
03-03-2005, 16:44
No, in britain there are people who think they are nazis, but really they are just racists and xenophobes

BNP anyone? they a good mix of both...
Omega the Black
03-03-2005, 16:44
stimmt. diese leute sind idioten, die keine ahnung haben!
only because of our past, which we couldn't change.
Essentially yes! The world at large is still just too wary of Germany since they were the "enemy" in 2 world wars. People forget that Germans fought for the Britians in the Americian Revolutionary war, against Napolian (I can never remember how to spell his name) and countless other times in "our" side. But the big ones are all that people remember, therego our past is our enemy!

For those wondering about now; I am an Irish/German born and raised in Canada with extensive travel under my belt. Aside from people like my buddy Forrest I have probably seen and experienced more than 99% of people alive today.
Psycholibra
03-03-2005, 16:44
objectively sporting the german flag and being proud to be german is perfectly alright and not nazi-ish at all.

subjectively, i can't deny that it hasn't got a somewhat negative touch if someone talks about "vaterland" or says they're proud to be german. but that might be due to my upbringing (my family is from poland ie their views towards germans are not always friendly - though usually i'll try to argue that what happenend more than 50 years ago has nothing to do with the people that live in germany now, some of their opinions might have stuck subconsciously) and the fact that i never really fit in/could identify with the german culture despite of being born in and having grown up there.
Independent Homesteads
03-03-2005, 17:14
du you want to see your flag burning?

you can use it as a bedsheet, make a tshirt out of it wrap your dinner it, wipe your arse on it, spit on it, piss on it and then burn it for all i care. It's just a bit of cloth. The actual *flag* is a pattern in people's heads, and if they all forgot about it, that wouldn't bother me either.
The odd one
03-03-2005, 17:16
objectively sporting the german flag and being proud to be german is perfectly alright and not nazi-ish at all.

subjectively, i can't deny that it hasn't got a somewhat negative touch if someone talks about "vaterland" or says they're proud to be german. but that might be due to my upbringing (my family is from poland ie their views towards germans are not always friendly - though usually i'll try to argue that what happenend more than 50 years ago has nothing to do with the people that live in germany now, some of their opinions might have stuck subconsciously) and the fact that i never really fit in/could identify with the german culture despite of being born in and having grown up there.
being Irish i sometimes struggle against the sub-concious anti-British sentiment. but ive mostly changed that to the more reasonable anti-imperialist stance
Independent Homesteads
03-03-2005, 17:17
No, in britain there are people who think they are nazis, but really they are just racists and xenophobes

because you've met everyone in britain who thinks they're a nazi, and assessed their point of view?
Psylos
03-03-2005, 17:38
you can use it as a bedsheet, make a tshirt out of it wrap your dinner it, wipe your arse on it, spit on it, piss on it and then burn it for all i care. It's just a bit of cloth. The actual *flag* is a pattern in people's heads, and if they all forgot about it, that wouldn't bother me either.
Exactly the same here. You can burn it, it will probably be warmer. Just try to be prudent enough not to set fire in your neightborhood. Other than that I see no reason why you shouldn't burn it. I don't know exactly what my nation is anyway so I wouldn't recognize my flag if you burnt it and I have several citizenships.
Elderbertonia
03-03-2005, 17:44
no
Dominicanian Empire
03-03-2005, 17:53
Napolian (I can never remember how to spell his name)napoleon ;)
Psycholibra
03-03-2005, 18:11
strange. i thought i didn't care at all about nationality/heritage and especially not something silly like a flag - but after trying to visualise seeing a flag burning (and the people who do it for whatever reason), i have to say burning the german flag wouldn't bother me, burning the polish flag would a bit. (pls don't shoot me, i've just realised it this very minute).

but in general every nation has done good and bad, some might have a whiter vest than others, but none of them has no stains on it at all. i suppose what makes the holocaust "stand out" from all the cruelties that happened (and continue to happen) throughout history is the way the genocide was carried out... i'm at a lack for words right now, but you know it was so "perfectly" planned, no human beings - only numbers. and the degree of cold-heartedness needed to do that is just mindboggling.
and this is not as to blame the germans, but i don't think there are many nations out there that would have displayed such a high level of obedience and conformity as the germans did. i might be wrong but i think that hitler would have faced more resistance from his own people if he had tried to do the same in (insert country of your choice here). different cultures = different mindsets.

disclaimer: yes, i don't know shit about history and this is just my carefully formulated personal opinion. i don't want to offend anyone, so please don't get offended.
Naturality
03-03-2005, 18:59
" Do you think germans are still nazis? "

Um.... no
Psylos
03-03-2005, 23:19
strange. i thought i didn't care at all about nationality/heritage and especially not something silly like a flag - but after trying to visualise seeing a flag burning (and the people who do it for whatever reason), i have to say burning the german flag wouldn't bother me, burning the polish flag would a bit. (pls don't shoot me, i've just realised it this very minute).

but in general every nation has done good and bad, some might have a whiter vest than others, but none of them has no stains on it at all. i suppose what makes the holocaust "stand out" from all the cruelties that happened (and continue to happen) throughout history is the way the genocide was carried out... i'm at a lack for words right now, but you know it was so "perfectly" planned, no human beings - only numbers. and the degree of cold-heartedness needed to do that is just mindboggling.
and this is not as to blame the germans, but i don't think there are many nations out there that would have displayed such a high level of obedience and conformity as the germans did. i might be wrong but i think that hitler would have faced more resistance from his own people if he had tried to do the same in (insert country of your choice here). different cultures = different mindsets.

disclaimer: yes, i don't know shit about history and this is just my carefully formulated personal opinion. i don't want to offend anyone, so please don't get offended.
Your point of view is interesting, but I have to inform you that racism was not invented in Germany. The english and the french were the champion of colonization and slavery before them. They debated and concluded that black people had no soul long before the nazis. And they didn't invent it either. The egyptians, the romans, the chinese and the greek were well known racist and barbarian "civilizations". Even primitive tribes have racist elements. Stupidity is not bound to a culture in particular, it is a human trait.