NationStates Jolt Archive

The first commandment is "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me."

Just a thought: Doesn't this imply that other gods actually do exist? You can't forbid something that doesn't exist, so that means that there must be other gods.

Doesn't it?

The first commandment is "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me."

Just a thought: Doesn't this imply that other gods actually do exist? You can't forbid something that doesn't exist, so that means that there must be other gods.

Doesn't it?
There are various wordings in the original hebrew that along with archealogists theories on the time period suggest that the OT was edited from a polytheistic to a monotheistic stance.

The first commandment is "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me."

Just a thought: Doesn't this imply that other gods actually do exist? You can't forbid something that doesn't exist, so that means that there must be other gods.

Doesn't it?

I always took it as, "There are other Gods and worshipping them is fine, as long as you worship me first."

I always took it as, "There are other Gods and worshipping them is fine, as long as you worship me first."

He sounds kinda needy...

He sounds kinda needy...

Always did. Why would an omnipotent, omniscient being need donations? :confused:

Imagine the ego of the human race to consider itself so grand as to warrant a creator worthy of praise. -- said by someone whose name i forgot.

Imagine the ego of the human race to consider itself so grand as to warrant a creator worthy of praise. -- said by someone whose name i forgot.

Sounds like something George Carlin would say.

If there really are other gods, then it kind of defeats the notion of the Judeo-Christian god being all-powerful.

Sounds like something George Carlin would say.

Actually... Robert Brunswick Jr.

If there really are other gods, then it kind of defeats the notion of the Judeo-Christian god being all-powerful.

Jesus refers to other Gods being things like "love of money". or sex, or anything really which can be a more powerful driving force for some people.

There are various wordings in the original hebrew that along with archealogists theories on the time period suggest that the OT was edited from a polytheistic to a monotheistic stance.

Actually most of the hebrew seems to be in the singular plural. That is to say, instead of "I am going shopping" or "we are going shopping", it says "we am going shopping". It's unlikely to be a spelling mistake, but instead implies the trinity of God, being completly one. Confusing? Yup! :D

Jesus refers to other Gods being things like "love of money". or sex, or anything really which can be a more powerful driving force for some people.

Hmm, okay, so that might be an answer for Christians, even though a better wording would have been "Thou shalt not hold false idols before Me" or some such. But it unless a similar clarification exists in the OT, the Jewish version of God is not alone in the universe.

Hmm, again:

http://www.thiaoouba.com/first_commandment.htm

A slightly questionable, yet interesting, interpretation.

The first commandment is "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me."

Just a thought: Doesn't this imply that other gods actually do exist? You can't forbid something that doesn't exist, so that means that there must be other gods.

Doesn't it?
The Old testament was Henotheistic, one God above all others. Not polytheistic because just like Libertarian group(which is mostly Conservative but labeled not such) get special ratings when meet certain criteria.
You had other gods, but you were forbidden to worship them. Islam before Muhammad was Poly. I think they were curropted to worship them because people get pretty curropt without the prophets.
Than Muhammad did away with the polytheistic, but he didn't include Heno...he did Mono instead causing many a problem later.

So yes there are other gods, but you are forbidden to woship them.

I think that the Bible is quite clear that there is only one God. When we worship other Gods (whether they exist or not) we break away from what God wants. Take for example, the old testament example of Baal. Throughout the OT, it is commented that there is no Baal, that he cannot and does not answer because he does not exist. However, the people who worship him are still told to "turn away from your god" even though the people saying that don't think he exists!

The Bible is a very practical book and says put God first, before anything else, whether real or not.

The OT never actually claims other gods didn't exist, just that the Jews must not worship them. Notice that it uses the word "elohim" in some places, which is a plural noun meaning gods.

Imagine the ego of the human race to consider itself so grand as to warrant a creator worthy of praise. -- said by someone whose name i forgot.
sounds like some one paraphrased Julian the Apostate

I think that the Bible is quite clear that there is only one God. When we worship other Gods (whether they exist or not) we break away from what God wants. Take for example, the old testament example of Baal. Throughout the OT, it is commented that there is no Baal, that he cannot and does not answer because he does not exist. However, the people who worship him are still told to "turn away from your god" even though the people saying that don't think he exists!

The Bible is a very practical book and says put God first, before anything else, whether real or not.

Actually, that's in the History, which is much later than the Torah or Law. Elijah, if he existed, was interpreting the Torah in a monotheistic light. There's every reason to suppose that Moses was being henotheistic, not monotheistic. Elohim is plural, after all.

:) sounds like some one paraphrased Julian the Apostate

Julian was not an "Apostate"- that's a derogatory Christian term for a convert from Christianity to a true god, like the ones Julian worshipped. He found many gods "worthy of praise". Julian was a pagan like me.

Actually, that's in the History, which is much later than the Torah or Law. Elijah, if he existed, was interpreting the Torah in a monotheistic light. There's every reason to suppose that Moses was being henotheistic, not monotheistic. Elohim is plural, after all.

As I said in a previous post:

Actually most of the hebrew seems to be in the singular conjunction plural (Elohim for example). That is to say, instead of "I am going shopping" or "we are going shopping", it says "we am going shopping". It's unlikely to be a spelling mistake, but instead implies the trinity of God, being completly one. Confusing? Yup!

Well what He means by that is by worshipping another God you're being an idolist because there is only one Almighty God. So don't worship false Gods!

As I said in a previous post:

Actually most of the hebrew seems to be in the singular conjunction plural (Elohim for example). That is to say, instead of "I am going shopping" or "we are going shopping", it says "we am going shopping". It's unlikely to be a spelling mistake, but instead implies the trinity of God, being completly one. Confusing? Yup!

Sounds more like a plurality of gods. The simplest, most obvious explanation is the most logical. After all, after Adam and Eve were supposedly expelled from Eden, and Elohim considered the effect of the Tree of Life, Elohim referred to a fear that they would become "as ONE of US"- which, if it referred to the Trinity, provokes the question: WHICH ONE- Father, Son, or Holy Ghost? Does becoming "ONE of US" mean that Elohim was afraid that the Trinity would become a Foursome or Fivesome? :)

Actually, that's in the History, which is much later than the Torah or Law. Elijah, if he existed, was interpreting the Torah in a monotheistic light. There's every reason to suppose that Moses was being henotheistic, not monotheistic. Elohim is plural, after all.
maybe you confused but as jewish I can tell you that some words in hebrew are unusual. as example the word "Elohim" mean only one god just as sky is "Shamaim". although it is true that "im is mostly for plural.

the judaism solved it with prayer that every religious jewish has to say in the morning or in the evening (I'm secular so I may wrong in the timing). in english it is: "hear israel, ye'hova our god, ye'hova is one" (ye'hova and israel are names for god)

Well what He means by that is by worshipping another God you're being an idolist because there is only one Almighty God. So don't worship false Gods!

Interesting to find Christians and Muslims in agreement for a change. :)

The first commandment is "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me."

Just a thought: Doesn't this imply that other gods actually do exist? You can't forbid something that doesn't exist, so that means that there must be other gods.

Doesn't it?
its a nice way for the church to ensure their dominance

"don't give your money to any other church, look it says in the bibe 'only chrisianity allowed' so it must be true. now hand over your gold or you might go to hell when you die" :rolleyes:

maybe you confused but as jewish I can tell you that some words in hebrew are unusual. as example the word "Elohim" mean only one god just as sky is "Shamaim". although it is true that "im is mostly for plural.

the judaism solved it with prayer that every religious jewish has to say in the morning or in the evening (I'm secular so I may wrong in the timing). in english it is: "hear israel, ye'hova our god, ye'hova is one" (ye'hova and israel are names for god)

I think that you're hiding from original, inconvenient meanings.

I think that you're hiding from original, inconvenient meanings.
oh man, I suffering from settelers that find inconvenient meanings in the bible and seeing it as promise to rule half of the middle east. some religious decide that sentence like "don't eat young goat in the milk of his mother" should become "don't use milk with meat" because of secret meanings.
every wacko and his wife find secret meaning and leave by them (which his "great" since the bible is long enough to contain every meaning and her opposites), and now even simple sentence has "god is one" has secret meanings?

personally, I don't care if this is million gods, one god or none. forgive me I don't give nothing anout the secret meanings.

Interesting to find Christians and Muslims in agreement for a change. :) We believe in the same God and that Jesus was very important. We agree on quite a lot actually.

The bible talks about other gods multiple times. But it also says that there is only one true God. Interpreting this is a simple endeavor. Yes, there are many gods that people worshipped at the time, but according to the bible, only one of them is the true God. It was no secret to the people of the time that there are other gods people worshipped (baal, set, anubis, etc.). But the bible tells us that all of those Gods are false Gods and there is only one true God.

The first commandment is "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me."

Just a thought: Doesn't this imply that other gods actually do exist? You can't forbid something that doesn't exist, so that means that there must be other gods.

Doesn't it?

Yes. For many years the Hebrews believed that other gods existed, they just didn't believe that they were "their" gods. Just like how the Atheneans worshipped Athena as their patron (matron?) goddess, even though they worshipped other gods as well.

I think the Bible provides an account of the political conflict between the priests of Baal and those of Jehovah.

The Baalites were the principly the Baalites who lived in agricultural cities, and the Jehovahites were the pastorialists. That's why in Genisis Able, the pastorialist was judged to have made the better sacrifice of an animal than Cain the farmer who only sacrificed grain. It was the Jehovahites way of saying that those who raise animals are more important than those who grow crops.

That's why they had no problem with writing absolutly stupid laws against farming more than one kind of crop on the same land which would exhaust the soil. They weren't farmers, what did they care if the soil was destroyed.

They didn't come up with the idea that their god was the only god until the Babylonians conquered them. Hebrews started approaching the priests of Jehovah saying "um... this Marduk guy seems like he's kind of a bad ass. I think I'm going to start worshipping him cause it looks like Jehovah's kind of a pussy."

So then the priests of Jehovah came up with a pretty clever defense of Jehovah's behavior. "Jehovah WANTED us to lose to Marduk's people because he's punishing us for not wiping out the Baalites."

"So why didn't he send the babylonians after the Baalites?"

"He's testing our faith. If we keep worshiping him even though he does nothing for us, then sooner or later he will, you'll see."

It's the sort of counter intuitive political bobbing and weaving that has stood the prophets of Jehovah and Son LLC. in good stead for several millinea now. Just like when the prophet Jerry Falwell claimed that God told him personally that after America put all 3 branches of the American government under the control of politicians that he favored he's now going to punish us for being too liberal by letting planes hit the WTC.

And you have to admit, if you can believe that load of crap you've got a hell of a lot of faith. At least faith in Jerry Falwell.

We believe in the same God and that Jesus was very important. We agree on quite a lot actually.

Not to mention that the Qoran talks more about Mary than the Bible does.

We believe in the same God and that Jesus was very important. We agree on quite a lot actually.

Even our politicians agree that we ought to kill eachother. :)

Imagine the ego of the human race to consider itself so grand as to warrant a creator worthy of praise. -- said by someone whose name i forgot.
Robert Brunswick Jr.

And we are so grand.

The first commandment is "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me."

Just a thought: Doesn't this imply that other gods actually do exist? You can't forbid something that doesn't exist, so that means that there must be other gods.

Doesn't it?

Considering that god refers to himself in a pural form in Genesis, but in a singular form for the rest of the bible suggests that the hebrews were once polytheistic. Also, the bible does not state any where that YHVH is the only god in existence.

BTW, the commandment reads, "20:2-3
I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

If there is only one god in existence, why does he need to make the point that he is THEIR god? How CAN they have any other gods before God if God is the only god?

The first commandment is "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me."

Just a thought: Doesn't this imply that other gods actually do exist? You can't forbid something that doesn't exist, so that means that there must be other gods.

Doesn't it?

By God's it doesnt mean other higher beings as as you said there are none. However (as is demonstrated later) people often put other "Gods" before God. Gods made of gold and silver and other wired idol things. However it was also refering to if you rank other things in much higher importance than God, a girl/boyfriend, matarialsm etc.

By God's it doesnt mean other higher beings as as you said there are none. However (as is demonstrated later) people often put other "Gods" before God. Gods made of gold and silver and other wired idol things. However it was also refering to if you rank other things in much higher importance than God, a girl/boyfriend, matarialsm etc.
Idols are not gods, they are representations of gods.

Idols are not gods, they are representations of gods.

No, but look at it in context. In the next few verses he goes on to say

"Do not make any gods to be alongside me; do not make for yourselves gods of silver or gods of gold." Exodus 20:23