NationStates Jolt Archive

No matter what side of the debate one is on, we all go back and forth about what we believe, and neither side leaves room for compromise. But can't we agree on common points? For example, can't we all agree that the falling abortion rate is a good thing? Can't even the pro choicers agree that abortion should not be regarded as the best choice in handling a baby.
This is what I, and many Democrats today, see as a problem. Th0eAmerican Democrats are traditionally pro-choice, yet make abortion sound as painless and mundane as a trip to the doctor. We all know it isn't. Can't we all agree that abortion isn't the best choice, even if many do acknowlege that abortion should be a choice?

hmm, no many people will never agree to agree and disagree. . .its to easy to disagree. By the way, I agree with you that we should all agree about somethings even if we disagree about other things. Do anybody agree?

The abortion issue is the only thing keeping my vote Republican. Just thought I'd share.

The abortion issue is the only thing keeping my vote Republican. Just thought I'd share.
That statement makes me feel sorry for the future of the American Democracy

I think that we can all agree that abortion should not be used as a form of birth control on a regular basis. Just about everything else is up for debate....

If we spent 1/10 of the effort to ban it on finding a solution, it wouldn't be used as much.

But that will never happen, it requires work, and it means helping people.

It will be a long time before a common ground will happen. Some people think that abortion should be allowed for cases of terminal diseases. I have heard people argue that is Gods will and you should deal with it.

Meh. Not going to end anytime soon......

The abortion issue is the only thing keeping my vote Republican. Just thought I'd share.

To vote based on one issue alone is not a wise thing to do...Why don't you share that thought with a rape victim?

That statement makes me feel sorry for the future of the American Democracy

You would be disheartened to know there are many people that vote straight line party tickets.

Sometimes I think I am strange because I look at the person and their past activities rather then their sound bits.

Ahh well....

I do agree with that. I'm pro-choice, but i don't think women should just indescriminantly have abortions, i always hope it doesn't have to be a woman's only choice.

If we spent 1/10 of the effort to ban it on finding a solution, it wouldn't be used as much.

But that will never happen, it requires work, and it means helping people.

It will be a long time before a common ground will happen. Some people think that abortion should be allowed for cases of terminal diseases. I have heard people argue that is Gods will and you should deal with it.

Meh. Not going to end anytime soon......
The good news is that abortion rates, while unacceptably high IMO, are coming down. In 1990, 344 abortions occurred for every 1000 births. Today, that ratio is <250:1000.

i personally think there should not be a debate on if it should be banned. i think there should be education on the options you can take before sex. abortion isnt put out there as the only solution. in the end, the last thing a woman needs after making the tough and agonising desion to abort is to have some fundamentalist group in her face, telling her that her free choice is wrong, and that she is a whore. this is especially true for victims of rape. not only have they the agony of dealing with whether or not to abort, but they are also dealing with their personal agony of rape. it is unfair that other people should dictate what a person can and can not do

You would be disheartened to know there are many people that vote straight line party tickets.
Like my mother, who doesn't even know what Republicans stand for or their stance on issues, yet has voted straight Republican her whole life.
:(

I think their should be restrictions. Only things for when you can not support the child. Is it good for a child to grow up in an abuse filled life?

How do you know that it is because the conditions that promote abortion like rape and poverty are falling? For all we know, it could be because women are starting to believe they really are just tools for men to continue their family line. Sorry, but someone had to disagree on it.

For all we know, it could be because women are starting to believe they really are just tools for men to continue their family line.

and what exactly is that supposed to mean?

and what exactly is that supposed to mean?
ummmm.... guys cant exaclty have offspring without a woman. and this reply is coming from a male

and vice versa...

i don't see why she needed to point it out, unless it was some feminist thing..

and vice versa...

i don't see why she needed to point it out, unless it was some feminist thing..
I think you both have it wrong. I think that what he meant was exactly what he said, "it could be because women are starting to believe they really are just tools for men to continue their family line", as in it could be because the once-popular belief that women were for cooking, cleaning, and having children is coming back into power.

To me i believe that abortion should be completly illegal. In the case of rape and incest, the probability of that is so low and having to prove that a women has been raped is such a hard thing to do that abortion should just be made illegal.whoa, thats a long sentence, what i basically believe is dont look at the exception for makeing a law and as far as reasons why i think abortion shuld be illegal...Sex is ment for reproduction, not for pleasure, the least you can do is use birth control to prevent the death of a human just because you were to lazy to do so. Also, for everyone who thinks its soo sad that people vote republican because of the abortion issue, why is that sad? You vote for the party or the person that shares your beliefs.

pardon my crappy spelling and grammar

To me i believe that abortion should be completly illegal. In the case of rape and incest, the probability of that is so low and having to prove that a women has been raped is such a hard thing to do that abortion should just be made illegal.

It happens more then you think. A great many rapes go unreported. So do many incest cases. I can name 10 women were 6 said they were raped. 2 said the police were involved.


whoa, thats a long sentence, what i basically believe is dont look at the exception for makeing a law and as far as reasons why i think abortion shuld be illegal...Sex is ment for reproduction, not for pleasure, the least you can do is use birth control to prevent the death of a human just because you were to lazy to do so.

Wow you are a bit of a contradiction. The people that usually spout sex is only for reproduction tend to preech no birth control. You can preech all you want. Very few people will say sex isn't fun. Even a bunch of those that say it isn't are lying.

Also, abortion for birthcontrol is not always the primary reason. Also, Birth control isn't always effective.


Also, for everyone who thinks its soo sad that people vote republican because of the abortion issue, why is that sad? You vote for the party or the person that shares your beliefs.

Because you are supposed to measure the whole person and not some crap he spews to get your vote.

Ok he is against abortion and he also abuses your tax money. Still a good candidate?

i personally think there should not be a debate on if it should be banned. i think there should be education on the options you can take before sex. abortion isnt put out there as the only solution. in the end, the last thing a woman needs after making the tough and agonising desion to abort is to have some fundamentalist group in her face, telling her that her free choice is wrong, and that she is a whore. this is especially true for victims of rape. not only have they the agony of dealing with whether or not to abort, but they are also dealing with their personal agony of rape. it is unfair that other people should dictate what a person can and can not do

Right on!

Like my mother, who doesn't even know what Republicans stand for or their stance on issues, yet has voted straight Republican her whole life.
:(
That describes much of the population of the Windy City, but they vote Democrat. Happens on both sides.

No matter what side of the debate one is on, we all go back and forth about what we believe, and neither side leaves room for compromise. But can't we agree on common points? For example, can't we all agree that the falling abortion rate is a good thing? Can't even the pro choicers agree that abortion should not be regarded as the best choice in handling a baby...
thumbs up, BUT
...yet make abortion sound as painless and mundane as a trip to the doctor. We all know it isn't...
??? You know it isn't, based on what? I know it is.

If you make abortion illegal it won't change a darn thing. Abortions have happened long before they were "clinically controlled" by trained personnel like doctors and nurses. Just because something is illegal doesn't mean people aren't doing it, if that was the case then there wouldn't be any criminals around (yet prisons are pretty much filled up to the top).

As for the rape cases, well, the arguent is flawed. I have two friends who were abused by their uncles when they were still children. Nobody would have believed them and those two cases never entered any crime statistics. Luckily none of them got pregnant.

It happens more often than most people would know or believe and it's usually not the shady character in the corner who does it. Usually it's the nice neighbour with the friendly wife and two cute kids from next door who does it.

Personally I think men should just shut up about this issue. It's not really their business to argue or even decide what women are allowed to do and what not.

No matter what side of the debate one is on, we all go back and forth about what we believe, and neither side leaves room for compromise. But can't we agree on common points? For example, can't we all agree that the falling abortion rate is a good thing? Can't even the pro choicers agree that abortion should not be regarded as the best choice in handling a baby.

most pro-choice people DO agree that abortion is sad and tragic, and most pro-choice organizations are actually more effective at reducing the number of abortions sought than the "pro-life" organizations are; this is because pro-choice organizations tend to sponsor events that educate women about contraception and reproductive health care, and help prevent unwanted pregnancies from ever happening. a great number of anti-choice organizations are also anti-contraception, and they sponsor abstinance-only programs which have been shown not to reduce pregnancy rates (and which have, in some cases, been shown to INCREASE infection rates for STDs).

now, personally, i believe abortion is the best possible choice that a woman could make in the event of an unplanned pregnancy. i think the world would be a better place if abortion rates trippled. i don't think it is ever right to force a woman to have an abortion, but i think it is wonderful when a woman makes the responsible choice on her own. i am far more "pro-abortion" than virtually all the pro-choice people i've met, and i'm also not a Democrat, so perhaps your thread topic doesn't apply to me, but i certainly will not agree that "abortion should not be regarded as the best choice in handling a baby." particularly since no abortive procedure involves a baby.

This is what I, and many Democrats today, see as a problem. Th0eAmerican Democrats are traditionally pro-choice, yet make abortion sound as painless and mundane as a trip to the doctor.

many abortive procedures are painless and mundane. having your throat scraped for a strep culture is more uncomfortable than taking a prescribed "morning after" pill, and most anti-choice people say that morning after pills are abortive agents.

We all know it isn't. Can't we all agree that abortion isn't the best choice, even if many do acknowlege that abortion should be a choice?
i do not agree with you, and i am not about to recind my personal beliefs just to "get along" with other people.

most pro-choice people DO agree that abortion is sad and tragic, and most pro-choice organizations are actually more effective at reducing the number of abortions sought than the "pro-life" organizations are; this is because pro-choice organizations tend to sponsor events that educate women about contraception and reproductive health care, and help prevent unwanted pregnancies from ever happening. a great number of anti-choice organizations are also anti-contraception, and they sponsor abstinance-only programs which have been shown not to reduce pregnancy rates (and which have, in some cases, been shown to INCREASE infection rates for STDs).

now, personally, i believe abortion is the best possible choice that a woman could make in the event of an unplanned pregnancy. i think the world would be a better place if abortion rates trippled. i don't think it is ever right to force a woman to have an abortion, but i think it is wonderful when a woman makes the responsible choice on her own. i am far more "pro-abortion" than virtually all the pro-choice people i've met, and i'm also not a Democrat, so perhaps your thread topic doesn't apply to me, but i certainly will not agree that "abortion should not be regarded as the best choice in handling a baby." particularly since no abortive procedure involves a baby.

many abortive procedures are painless and mundane. having your throat scraped for a strep culture is more uncomfortable than taking a prescribed "morning after" pill, and most anti-choice people say that morning after pills are abortive agents.

i do not agree with you, and i am not about to recind my personal beliefs just to "get along" with other people.

Sounds like you are a fanatic.

No matter what side of the debate one is on, we all go back and forth about what we believe, and neither side leaves room for compromise. But can't we agree on common points? For example, can't we all agree that the falling abortion rate is a good thing? Can't even the pro choicers agree that abortion should not be regarded as the best choice in handling a baby.

This is what I, and many Democrats today, see as a problem. Th0eAmerican Democrats are traditionally pro-choice, yet make abortion sound as painless and mundane as a trip to the doctor. We all know it isn't. Can't we all agree that abortion isn't the best choice, even if many do acknowlege that abortion should be a choice?
Actually, I think abortion can be compromised on (for example, having limitations on te circumstances in which it's availible). Most pro-choicers are just that, pro-choice, not pro-abortion. Most know that abortion is not the best option, but that women should have the freedom to choose one.

It is logical to avoid reproducing until one is prepared for it.

Trick is, we need to work on more ways of preventing implantation of the fetus, to save all of the medical issues.

Condoms and the current pills are useful, but far from perfect.

We need -perfect-, so we can enjoy our lives and bodies safely

No matter what side of the debate one is on, we all go back and forth about what we believe, and neither side leaves room for compromise. But can't we agree on common points?

If they were common points, yes but they aren't.

Your ideas:
1) For example, can't we all agree that the falling abortion rate is a good thing?

No one disagrees here.

2) Can't even the pro choicers agree that abortion should not be regarded as the best choice in handling a baby.

I disagree, why should I agree if it is not "common" points. Sometimes it is the best choice. I wouldn't wan to bring a child to world that was infected with a disease or mutation that could harm society, cause it pain all its life, etc.


your thoughts:
This is what I, and many Democrats today, see as a problem. Th0eAmerican Democrats are traditionally pro-choice, yet make abortion sound as painless and mundane as a trip to the doctor. We all know it isn't. Can't we all agree that abortion isn't the best choice, even if many do acknowlege that abortion should be a choice?

Um, a trip to the doctors isn't very painless so actually you make it sounds about exact amount of pain.
No, Abortion can be the best choice. You don't speak for us American democrats. Sonme of us speak for ourselves, pff, like you know how we feel.

Um, a trip to the doctors isn't very painless so actually you make it sounds about exact amount of pain.
No, Abortion can be the best choice. You don't speak for us American democrats. Sonme of us speak for ourselves, pff, like you know how we feel.
Being a Clinton watcher, she seems to be taking this stance on abortion in her speaches. She is catapulting herself to the forefront of her party, and will probably run for president. I consider her the voice of the Democrats, just as everyone considers Bush to be the voice of Republicans, or Tony Blair, Jacque Chiraq, and other leaders as the voices of their respective political parties.

Actually, I think abortion can be compromised on (for example, having limitations on te circumstances in which it's availible). Most pro-choicers are just that, pro-choice, not pro-abortion. Most know that abortion is not the best option, but that women should have the freedom to choose one.
The problem, however, is that the pro choice lobby has not voiced this loud enough. If they hope to start scoring points on their side of the debate, they need to change their image, and not keep the conservative outlook that hasn't changed since Roe vs. Wade.

The problem, however, is that the pro choice lobby has not voiced this loud enough. If they hope to start scoring points on their side of the debate, they need to change their image, and not keep the conservative outlook that hasn't changed since Roe vs. Wade.

Excuse me? The Pro-Choice lobby has always maintained that stance. They view that access to abortion should be allowed.

If the pro-lifers were looking into ways to eliminate the desire of it then things would change. But they want to eliminate the wrong and not deal with the source.

Why should they even "change" it would not change the views of the pro-life people.

Being a Clinton watcher, she seems to be taking this stance on abortion in her speaches. She is catapulting herself to the forefront of her party, and will probably run for president. I consider her the voice of the Democrats, just as everyone considers Bush to be the voice of Republicans, or Tony Blair, Jacque Chiraq, and other leaders as the voices of their respective political parties.
Clinton is correct when she says falling abortion rates are good, but banning them isn't.

Plus Dean is actually now the Head of party.

Clinton is correct when she says falling abortion rates are good, but banning them isn't.

Plus Dean is actually now the Head of party.
Sure he is. But many Democrats would be quite upset to hear that Dean is the chairman, just like I, a Republican, am upset that Ed Gillespie is chairman (even though he is damn good looking).

You know what? I'm pro choice....and you know what else? if you are gonna have an abortion you might as well donate the fetus to stem-cell research! if your gonna kill an unborn child let it at least try and help some1 else....and you know what? use a fucking condom :upyours:

Here's a quote you might like: 77% of all anti-abortion leaders are men; 100% of them will never become pregnant.

Having an abortion is not murder. The "fetus" is nowhere near being a baby, and is not even classified as a fetus.

Pregnancy and child birth are hell for a lot of women to go through, and let's face it: women don't get abortions because they are evil and sadistic, it's a very hard decision.

When abortions were illegal, women were going to black market doctors and getting diseased or even killed after the procedure, and now that it's legal, they can get it done low-risk.

What happens when a 12 year old girl gets raped by her step father, or worse her own father. Can you expect a little girl to carry, give birth to, a raise a child under these circumstances? That's worse than preventing the cell to become life. Also, it is unfair to the adult that this baby will someday become to be in these circumstances.

It pisses me off that when a teenage girl gets accidentally pregant by her boyfriend and the boyfriend refuses to let her get an abortion and then leaves her to raise the child by herself.

Also remember that these cells that are aborted are pretty much no more than a sperm and egg put together. Thousands of women's eggs and millions of men's sperm go without becoming some form of life. Is that murder too? What are the standards?


These are just some of my rants about pro-life nuts

well late term abortions can donate cells

I agree that abortion is not the best form of contracteption by any means and that having an abortion earlier is obviouly better is almost every way. But you can hardly call abortion murder, most aborted fetuses are still little more than a bundle of cells.
they sponsor abstinance-only programs which have been shown not to reduce pregnancy rates (and which have, in some cases, been shown to INCREASE infection rates for STDs).
yeah, I read that in this month's (or is it week's) new scientist