NationStates Jolt Archive

What would you do if your son, aged between 14 and 16, got a girl pregnant?

Regardless of what happened, I'd offer to let her live in my house, and I'd get another job if necessary, to make sure the grandson (it could be a girl, but ideally I want a grandson first, but lots of grandchildren so yeah, some will certainly be girls) is well taken care of.

If my son refused to marry her, I'd throw him out until he got his sense of responsibility back.

If they did marry, which is the only thing I'd really accept, they'd live in my house until my son completed college and had a job, or until I wheeled and dealed to get him a job at whatever company I'll be working for that far ahead in the future.

I'll beat the shit out of my son, ask that the girl get an abortion, and if she refuses then I'll beat him up again (but I'll support the new baby).

I'd give Colodia $100 to say he's the father. It's so fun to make fun of Cole while he's at Hajj.

What would you do if your son, aged between 14 and 16, got a girl pregnant?

Shoot him in the face. Next ?

i'd make sure they both understood all the choices they had, and then accept that it was up to them to make whatever decision they felt was best, supporting them every step of the way, and offering my home and my help if they wanted it. criticism isn't necessary once kids get into that situation, they learn pretty fast. (based on experience)

I'd be very stern with my son, no matter what the girl chose to do. If she got an abortion, I'd be fine with that, though my son would definitely have less free time on his hands. If she chose to give it up for adoption, same as above. If she chose to raise the baby, I'd force my son to marry her. Harsh, but that's consequences for ya.

(assuming i had a son and my own place :rolleyes: )
if they wanted an abortion id let them but if not..
after beating the crap outa him i would let them live at my place if need be provided one of them gets a job they wouldnt need to get married unles of corce they wanted to

ask that the girl get an abortion


That is never an option, as a matter of fact, I'd let her realize, if she even considered it, I'd have her in court and charge her with raping my son, or taking advantage of somebody not emotionally mature enough to consent.

In Ohio, anybody between 13-17 may have sex with anybody between 13-17 provided it is consensual and they gave valid consent (ie. not drunk, mentally handicapped, emotionally disturbed, etc). I'd have a shrink say my boy was distraught and didn't know what he was getting into, that is if the girl talked about abortion. But I think I'd be able to scare her into not even thinking the word "abortion".

No grandson of mine would be murdered in the womb.

Punch the little shit in the face.

That is never an option, as a matter of fact, I'd let her realize, if she even considered it, I'd have her in court and charge her with raping my son, or taking advantage of somebody not emotionally mature enough to consent.

In Ohio, anybody between 13-17 may have sex with anybody between 13-17 provided it is consensual and they gave valid consent (ie. not drunk, mentally handicapped, emotionally disturbed, etc). I'd have a shrink say my boy was distraught and didn't know what he was getting into, that is if the girl talked about abortion. But I think I'd be able to scare her into not even thinking the word "abortion".

No grandson of mine would be murdered in the womb.

so how the girl was going to cope with bringing the kid up wouldn't enter your mind. ditto the fact that your son could have co-erced or persuaded the girl into the act? whiter than white just cos he's your son? so blinkered.

I'd make sure it wasn't aborted, and then make sure my grandson was taken care of. I'd force my son to marry her.

I'd make sure it wasn't aborted, and then make sure my grandson was taken care of. I'd force my son to marry her.
Shotgun marriages are, and always have been, invalid.

What would you do if your son, aged between 14 and 16, got a girl pregnant?

meh ask if she has a sister?

Shotgun marriages are, and always have been, invalid.


so they should be. they'll always end in misery for all involved

Shotgun marriages are, and always have been, invalid.


I'd tell my son, "Marry her or live in the street." That's legal and convincing!

i would tell the girl to take the best advice possible, to talk it over with my son and her parents, and then do whatever she thinks is right

i would probably talk to both of them and explain them that raising a child at their age is not that easy.. maybe even imposible (they are also childs!)
i would convince her to take and abortion.. and then explain to them that sex is not all about fun when it gets to having a child.. so using condoms from now on would be the best alternative.
If the girl decided to have the baby regardless of what i tried to teach her my son will probably pay a monthly alocation from his NEW JOB that he will have to get from now on.
Punching and kickin your baby because u were incapable of explaining him what can happen when u have sex its stupid IMO.

He knows what I'd do. That's why this would never happen.

i would probably talk to both of them and explain them that raising a child at their age is not that easy.. maybe even imposible (they are also childs!)
i would convince her to take and abortion.. and then explain to them that sex is not all about fun when it gets to having a child.. so using condoms from now on would be the best alternative.
If the girl decided to have the baby regardless of what i tried to teach her my son will probably pay a monthly alocation from his NEW JOB that he will have to get from now on.
Punching and kickin your baby because u were incapable of explaining him what can happen when u have sex its stupid IMO.


Condoms only work about 94% of the time.

I know a man who was 16 when he had a kid, he's 32 now and he and his son are fine, and indeed he has other children. It was hard work, but he and the mother got through it. It can be done.

I'd tell my son, "Marry her or live in the street." That's legal and convincing!
If he's under 18 you can't.

Condoms only work about 94% of the time.

I know a man who was 16 when he had a kid, he's 32 now and he and his son are fine, and indeed he has other children. It was hard work, but he and the mother got through it. It can be done.

condoms are 98% effective. you still haven't responded to my earlier points.

Condoms only work about 94% of the time.

I know a man who was 16 when he had a kid, he's 32 now and he and his son are fine, and indeed he has other children. It was hard work, but he and the mother got through it. It can be done.

u dont really have a point u know?
using condoms is 94% safer than not using.. and raising a child is not that easy , maybe imposible.
:cool:

so how the girl was going to cope with bringing the kid up wouldn't enter your mind. ditto the fact that your son could have co-erced or persuaded the girl into the act? whiter than white just cos he's your son? so blinkered.



Bible says women ought to have kids, typically they're smart enough to wait until they get married and their husband can support them. But if the boy and girl are responsible enough and mature enough to be having sex, they're responsible enough to deal with the consequences, it'll be a lesson well learned.

I would do nothing. I would not have a son. My beliefs on pregnancy are moot simply because I have zero interest in the very prospect of passing my flawed genes onto another person. The number of hereditary conditions present in both my mother's and father's families are too numerous to laugh about, and then the number of hereditary conditions whoever the mother is would likely have. Simply put, there is no practical purpose for me to have offspring. Let's look:

- Costs enormous amounts of money both to 'woo' a suitable female 'host', and then to raise the offspring.
- I have never spoken to anybody thus far who says they would go through the whole thing again. It is a thankless task that creates infinitely more stress than any amount of meaningless love could possibly compensate. I still remember my mother crying as a result of yet another of my sisters' invariably stupid late-night ideas. Police brought her home many times...
- I hate children.
- I dislike the prospect of 'settling down' in itself.

Assuming for a moment I did have a son who got into that situation, though, I'd simply throw him out and leave him to it for the very reasons I wouldn't have him to begin with. I wash my hands of anyone who so casually throws their flawed genes around like that. That includes my aunt, who is a carrier of haemophilia. She knew this, yet proceeded to have children anyway. Both of them suffer quite badly as a result. Even after the first son was born, spending most of his early life in a hospital, she then proceeded to have a SECOND child, 'just in case' it didn't turn out the same. It did, incidentally. I haven't spoken to her for years. But that might also have something to do with the fact that she's pretty much the most irritating person alive on the planet...

Pull him out of school, make him work to support the baby.

That's why u use 2 condoms.

Bible says women ought to have kids, typically they're smart enough to wait until they get married and their husband can support them. But if the boy and girl are responsible enough and mature enough to be having sex, they're responsible enough to deal with the consequences, it'll be a lesson well learned.

so the child has to be a product of a lesson well learned? how do you think that child will feel about his or her grandparents and parents when they get to be an adult themselves?

i'm not going to get into the gender issues, suffice to say you're living in a world totally removed from my reality.

Pull him out of school, make him work to support the baby.

That's why u use 2 condoms.

just a little thing, if you wear two condoms at once they will rub against each other and are more likely to tear. one is enough

I would do nothing. I would not have a son. My beliefs on pregnancy are moot simply because I have zero interest in the very prospect of passing my flawed genes onto another person. The number of hereditary conditions present in both my mother's and father's families are too numerous to laugh about, and then the number of hereditary conditions whoever the mother is would likely have. Simply put, there is no practical purpose for me to have offspring. Let's look:

- Costs enormous amounts of money both to 'woo' a suitable female 'host', and then to raise the offspring.
- I have never spoken to anybody thus far who says they would go through the whole thing again. It is a thankless task that creates infinitely more stress than any amount of meaningless love could possibly compensate. I still remember my mother crying as a result of yet another of my sisters' invariably stupid late-night ideas. Police brought her home many times...
- I hate children.
- I dislike the prospect of 'settling down' in itself.

Assuming for a moment I did have a son who got into that situation, though, I'd simply throw him out and leave him to it for the very reasons I wouldn't have him to begin with. I wash my hands of anyone who so casually throws their flawed genes around like that. That includes my aunt, who is a carrier of haemophilia. She knew this, yet proceeded to have children anyway. Both of them suffer quite badly as a result. Even after the first son was born, spending most of his early life in a hospital, she then proceeded to have a SECOND child, 'just in case' it didn't turn out the same. It did, incidentally. I haven't spoken to her for years. But that might also have something to do with the fact that she's pretty much the most irritating person alive on the planet...

i hope you discover humanity and fall in love one day

i hope you discover humanity and fall in love one day

A doubtful eventuality; but if that was some sort of concern you were expressing, thanks anyway.

A doubtful eventuality; but if that was some sort of concern you were expressing, thanks anyway.

it wasn't concern. it was part sadistic, and part praying that i'm talking to humans and not emotionless robots

That's why u use 2 condoms.


Common mistake, using 2 causes friction and they both tend to rip.

Common mistake, using 2 causes friction and they both tend to rip.

it's already been said, like most of your outdated comments

Let them decide whther to have an abortion, put it up for adoption, or raise the kid.

If he chooses abortion, I'd have him pay for the abortion. Then I'd show him the bill, and then I'd show him a receipt for a pack of condoms, just to encourage him to think ahead next time.

If he keeps the child, he'll have to get a job. I'll help pay for the child care, but he has to be doing his part. Once he finishes high school he gets a job. And he will finish high school, because he's not going to be supporting one of my relatives on a WalMart paycheck. I'd suggest he find a way to take college in between work and a child, but he'll have to make sure he's taking care of the kid. I'd visit him occasionally, and if I ge the slightest hint that the child is being neglected, I'd call a social worker on the spot to have the child taken away.

If he chooses adoption, I'll just pat him on the head and tell him to cut out the sex until he can keep himself from getting a girl pregnant.

i guess id wonder why i was letting my 14 year old date.

id ask for a prenancy test and a paternity test

id let the girl and her family know that we would support any decision they made, including encouraging my son to give up his parental rights if she wanted to put the baby up for adoption

i would not let my son get married even if he wanted to. i would encourage him to spend as much time as possible with his child if the mother decided to have the child and keep it. he would have to work to support his child.

Being 15 years old and living 6 miles from another house I don't think that will happen soon.

Common mistake, using 2 causes friction and they both tend to rip.

'double bagging'

I would say, "What were you thinking? There are 285 million Christians in this country, all armed with assault rifles they use to hunt doves but will just as soon use on you."

i guess id wonder why i was letting my 14 year old date.

id ask for a prenancy test and a paternity test

id let the girl and her family know that we would support any decision they made, including encouraging my son to give up his parental rights if she wanted to put the baby up for adoption

i would not let my son get married even if he wanted to. i would encourage him to spend as much time as possible with his child if the mother decided to have the child and keep it. he would have to work to support his child.
Hint: 14 year olds will, and do, date with or without your permission.

*this is if I ever get married and have a son*

I would say "Let your mother handle it. She's better at this 'love' stuff. Now let me get back to the game..."

That is never an option, as a matter of fact, I'd let her realize, if she even considered it, I'd have her in court and charge her with raping my son, or taking advantage of somebody not emotionally mature enough to consent.

So you would readily lie in a court of law and fabricate charges which have absolutely no grounds?

Hint: 14 year olds will, and do, date with or without your permission.


Home school them, don't let them leave the house without your supervision, and let them know, you believe in the word of God, "spare the rod and spoil the child." (You don't actually have to beat them, indeed it's better not to, but let the possibility of a beating, always loom over their heads, so they are scared into walking the straight and narrow)

*this is if I ever get married and have a son*

I would say "Let your mother handle it. She's better at this 'love' stuff. Now let me get back to the game..."

ROFLMAO!!!

*Throws TLS an uber-cookie*

Home school them, don't let them leave the house without your supervision, and let them know, you believe in the word of God, "spare the rod and spoil the child." (You don't actually have to beat them, indeed it's better not to, but let the possibility of a beating, always loom over their heads, so they are scared into walking the straight and narrow)
VE, they'll still do it anyway...


The most conservative parents I know end up doing something like this, and it always ends up backfiring. In fact, the girl that I know who has the strictest upbringing not only has sex...often, but her parents don't know a thing.

So you would readily lie in a court of law and fabricate charges which have absolutely no grounds?


Lying to save an unborn child, particularly if it contained my son's genetic material, and thereby some of mine, would be a good thing, a very good thing.

Anyway, I might not actually go through with it, I think the girl would cave after I expertly scare her into submission.


Anything that keeps a woman from getting an abortion is a good thing, even an outright lie, scare tactics, etc. (This is just my opinion though, I'm sure you'll disagree)

ROFLMAO!!!

*Throws TLS an uber-cookie*

Mmmmm, Uber!

I'd make sure it wasn't aborted, and then make sure my grandson was taken care of. I'd force my son to marry her.
what if she refuses either keeping the baby or getting married?

VE, they'll still do it anyway...


The most conservative parents I know end up doing something like this, and it always ends up backfiring. In fact, the girl that I know who has the strictest upbringing not only has sex...often, but her parents don't know a thing.


If my daughter doesn't bleed for her husband on their wedding night, (and I'll be saving the sheets, since the bible says they are to be saved, so nobody can ever say she wasn't a virgin when I let him marry her, but anyway) if she doesn't bleed for him, that means that she lied to me and tricked me throughout her teenage years, and that would warrant a major beating, no questions asked.

Like I said before, my mother beat the tar out of me, but I never did anything to earn it, but I still took it. Had I done something to earn it, it'd have been a different story. But there is nothing wrong, in principle, with beating a kid, some kids need it.

Anything that keeps a woman from getting an abortion is a good thing, even an outright lie, scare tactics, etc. (This is just my opinion though, I'm sure you'll disagree)

'Anything'? Does this include shooting abortionists and bombing clinics?

'Anything'? Does this include shooting abortionists and bombing clinics?

I won't answer here because it might degenerate into flaming/baiting/trolling, etc. But if you want to discuss this, I will give you totally honest opinions I hold on the matter, via IM or email.

What would you do if your son, aged between 14 and 16, got a girl pregnant?

Well I know that my daughter would hopefully not let this happen to her. First reaction as a parent is to protect them. So whatever they needed I would step in and help with. Then I would raise there child as a any child I had with my wife. Its basic. You have to protect your family. As far as our political thoughts go. We are conservative to boot. Still doesnt matter

If my daughter doesn't bleed for her husband on their wedding night, (and I'll be saving the sheets, since the bible says they are to be saved, so nobody can ever say she wasn't a virgin when I let him marry her, but anyway) if she doesn't bleed for him, that means that she lied to me and tricked me throughout her teenage years, and that would warrant a major beating, no questions asked.

This is missing the point that some women are born without a hymen, or lose them during activities such as sport or even more placid pursuits. Seeing as how you would ask no questions, would you still deliver your beating if you believed this could be the case?

-snip- it'll be a lesson well learned.

At the expence of the child? Why should the child have to live in that kind of world?


wont someone think of the children

I won't answer here because it might degenerate into flaming/baiting/trolling, etc. But if you want to discuss this, I will give you totally honest opinions I hold on the matter, via IM or email.

I'll take that as a 'yes' and move swiftly on then.

This is missing the point that some women are born without a hymen, or lose them during activities such as sport or even more placid pursuits. Seeing as how you would ask no questions, would you still deliver your beating if you believed this could be the case?


No, if I knew she was a good girl, I suppose I'd just sit down and talk about it with her. If you raise your kids right, you know they'll do the right thing. I guess if you even have to ask though, you probably could have raised them better.


My father never had to ask me, "Hey, are you having sex?" he knew it was just a given I wasn't. Although he had NO idea how many less than virtuous temptresses pestered me with offers of sin.

Oh, and you made a good case for why young girls ought not to play sports, when they grow older and marry, their husband might not be able to tell if they were honest about their virginity.

If my son got her pregnant, I would talk to the paranets and try to agree to an abortion. None of this having kids while your young bullshit.

And vice versa if it was my daughter, she'd be getting an abortion. There would be no debate at all.

Why dont they just do oral sex? No chance of a unwanted baby, I'd have no problem with my daughter having sex as long as she used protection, and wasnt whorey about it.

At the expence of the child? Why should the child have to live in that kind of world?

Apparently letting a child be born into a life where it fears and suffers extreme beatings for at least the first eighteen years of its life at the hands of those who 'love' it is a much better thing...

No, if I knew she was a good girl, I suppose I'd just sit down and talk about it with her. If you raise your kids right, you know they'll do the right thing. I guess if you even have to ask though, you probably could have raised them better.


So when you say 'no questions asked' you don't actually mean 'no questions asked'?

Oh, and you made a good case for why young girls ought not to play sports, when they grow older and marry, their husband might not be able to tell if they were honest about their virginity.

There is such a thing as hymen replacement surgery, you know? - quite popular still in Muslim countires I believe...

Apparently letting a child be born into a life where it fears and suffers extreme beatings for at least the first eighteen years of its life at the hands of those who 'love' it is a much better thing...
Thats what im getting at of the parents dont want a child its not going to be a good place for a child to grow up. which leeds to alot of the problems in the world today.

I would say, "What were you thinking? There are 285 million Christians in this country, all armed with assault rifles they use to hunt doves but will just as soon use on you."

REALLY uncalled-for, and offensive.

If my son got her pregnant, I would talk to the paranets and try to agree to an abortion. None of this having kids while your young bullshit.

And vice versa if it was my daughter, she'd be getting an abortion. There would be no debate at all.

Why dont they just do oral sex? No chance of a unwanted baby, I'd have no problem with my daughter having sex as long as she used protection, and wasnt whorey about it.


So you'd not mind her risking getting or giving herpes, or gonarhea of the mouth?

As for forcing your daughter to get an abortion, I think that can't be done. Even the pro-choice folks who say, "A woman's body is her's to do with as she wants" would be against that, since you'd be forcing her to do something she might not want to do. Anyway, I do believe in many, at least some, states, a girl can have her child without parental interference, since it makes sense because in a state like Florida, a 14 year old girl can get an abortion without even having her parents know.

If she was bound and determined to have the child, trying to force her into having an abortion would likely just result in her running off, possibly with the father, getting married, and living a life in poverty or middle class mediocrity at best.

This is missing the point that some women are born without a hymen, or lose them during activities such as sport or even more placid pursuits. Seeing as how you would ask no questions, would you still deliver your beating if you believed this could be the case?
Yes lets oppress the women, hazza.

What would you do if your son, aged between 14 and 16, got a girl pregnant?

Make sure he got a part time job so he could pay some child support, medical bills etc. Help the girl with the medical bills and child support. Make sure she had a decent place to live. Love my grandchild. Make sure my son finished his education so he could get a decent job and support the baby, and if they were still in love, get married and support his family.

So you'd not mind her risking getting or giving herpes, or gonarhea of the mouth?

As for forcing your daughter to get an abortion, I think that can't be done. Even the pro-choice folks who say, "A woman's body is her's to do with as she wants" would be against that, since you'd be forcing her to do something she might not want to do. Anyway, I do believe in many, at least some, states, a girl can have her child without parental interference, since it makes sense because in a state like Florida, a 14 year old girl can get an abortion without even having her parents know.

If she was bound and determined to have the child, trying to force her into having an abortion would likely just result in her running off, possibly with the father, getting married, and living a life in poverty or middle class mediocrity at best.

Meh, I'd let her know the risks invovled, and if she is a dumbass and sleeps around like that, I dont care, I'd just disown her. I'm not Pro Choice or Pro life, I'm Pro Making your own choices and dealing with the punishment and shutting up about it.

Your Right an aborition may be to harsh.
And not letting girls play sports, are you insane?

Meh, I'd let her know the risks invovled, and if she is a dumbass and sleeps around like that, I dont care, I'd just disown her. I'm not Pro Choice or Pro life, I'm Pro Making your own choices and dealing with the punishment.

And not letting girls play sports, are you insane?



Letting your own daughter fall into a pit of whoredom? I ask you sir, are you insane?


I'm sorry, but I am going to give 110% to raising whatever children I have someday in the future, so that they are raised right and walk the straight and narrow. I'm not going to let them fall into a pit of sin. Wait, no I'm not sorry for saying that. It's right to take care of your children.

i would convince her to take and abortion..

So you are not pro-choice, but you are por-abortion? You don't think she has a right to keep the child or give it up for adoption? :(

He knows what I'd do. That's why this would never happen.

Never say never.

Letting your own daughter fall into a pit of whoredom? I ask you sir, are you insane?


I'm sorry, but I am going to give 110% to raising whatever children I have someday in the future, so that they are raised right and walk the straight and narrow. I'm not going to let them fall into a pit of sin. Wait, no I'm not sorry for saying that. It's right to take care of your children.

You know, now that I actually think about it. I would support her in anyway I could. Now that I think more, if she was having sex without telling me I'd get really pissed off.

BUT I would support her and the child until she finish's school and unless she really didn't want to, I'd ask her to marry the man.

Not letting young women play sports, hows that normal on any level?

If my daughter doesn't bleed for her husband on their wedding night, (and I'll be saving the sheets, since the bible says they are to be saved, so nobody can ever say she wasn't a virgin when I let him marry her, but anyway) if she doesn't bleed for him, that means that she lied to me and tricked me throughout her teenage years, and that would warrant a major beating, no questions asked.

Like I said before, my mother beat the tar out of me, but I never did anything to earn it, but I still took it. Had I done something to earn it, it'd have been a different story. But there is nothing wrong, in principle, with beating a kid, some kids need it.

1) Your knowledge about condoms is pretty poor. When condom manufacturers assure 99% (not 94%, although given accidents, real-life effectiveness is closer to 98%) effectiveness against condom failure, they don't mean that one in a hundred condoms fails. It means that out of 100 couples engaging in sex with condom-only protection 100 times per year, one of those couples will end up facing an unwanted pregnancy. That means that only about 1-2 in 10,000 condoms fails at the wrong time.

2) Your ignorance of condom usage is vastly exceeded by your lack of knowledge about gynecology. Quite a few women break their hymen doing things like riding bikes and playing soccer. Should you beat your daughter because she was an avid midfielder?

3) What the hell are you doing in the bedroom on the morning after her marriage? You as a father have abso-f'in-lutely no business being there. If I were your son-in-law, I'd put you in traction for merely poking around in the room. I'd sever your arms from the rest of you with a wood-chipper so you could never touch her again if you actually beat her.

4) There are usually two reactions to the kind of abuse you seem to be advocating. One is that you permanently break the child. The other is that the child snaps and permanently breaks you, usually with a firearm or heavy blunt-trauma instrument. In either case, the results are not good, and they certainly aren't what we might call instances of true Christian fellowship. That being the case, perhaps you might reconsider your plans and get a better understanding of Christ, because generally speaking, Christ would never ask you to do something that has, with almost no exception, nothing but bad consequences attached to doing it.

Not letting young women play sports, hows that normal on any level?

Don't you understand? It is vital so that after 'deflowering' a bride the groom knows that she was a virgin beforehand (assuming that she was not born without a hymen or didn't lose it by accident or through normal activity or underwent hymen replacement surgery). Exactly what use this knowledge is to him after the fact (he having already married her and consumated the wedding), I fail to see, but I suspect it might include a beating at some point.*




* presumably to teach the girl never to lose her virginity again.

If my daughter doesn't bleed for her husband on their wedding night, (and I'll be saving the sheets, since the bible says they are to be saved, so nobody can ever say she wasn't a virgin when I let him marry her, but anyway) if she doesn't bleed for him, that means that she lied to me and tricked me throughout her teenage years, and that would warrant a major beating, no questions asked.

Like I said before, my mother beat the tar out of me, but I never did anything to earn it, but I still took it. Had I done something to earn it, it'd have been a different story. But there is nothing wrong, in principle, with beating a kid, some kids need it.

Wait a minute -- you're going to be there in the room with your daughter and husband on their wedding night to check if she's a virgin? One of the most exhausting, stressful and private nights of their life?

What makes you think that 1) your married daughter would be in any way still under your control or that 2) any man worth calling himself the same would tolerate anyone raising a hand against his wife?

Pull him out of school, make him work to support the baby.

That's why u use 2 condoms.

If you pull him out of school, how is he supposed to get a good job so he can support the baby? It would be damn hard to support himself and a baby on minimum wage jobs for the rest of his life. :headbang:

That's why you use zero condoms and keep your pecker in your pants.

I'd have a serious talk with my son and make him take care of the girl and try to arrange something with her family. But considering my son isn't due until June, I'm safe for 14-16 years and hopefully my wife and I will raise our son so that that never happens.

(and I'll be saving the sheets, since the bible says they are to be saved, so nobody can ever say she wasn't a virgin

Book, chapter, and verse please.

Wait a minute -- you're going to be there in the room with your daughter and husband on their wedding night to check if she's a virgin? One of the most exhausting, stressful and private nights of their life?

What makes you think that 1) your married daughter would be in any way still under your control or that 2) any man worth calling himself the same would tolerate anyone raising a hand against his wife?
I must agree with you. That is probably the most insane and sickest thing I have ever heard. The bible doesn't say anything about spying on your daughter on her wedding night and then stealing the bedding. If it does, I want to hear it.

That is never an option, as a matter of fact, I'd let her realize, if she even considered it, I'd have her in court and charge her with raping my son, or taking advantage of somebody not emotionally mature enough to consent.

In Ohio, anybody between 13-17 may have sex with anybody between 13-17 provided it is consensual and they gave valid consent (ie. not drunk, mentally handicapped, emotionally disturbed, etc). I'd have a shrink say my boy was distraught and didn't know what he was getting into, that is if the girl talked about abortion. But I think I'd be able to scare her into not even thinking the word "abortion".

No grandson of mine would be murdered in the womb.
So you would deliberately lie and blackmail the girl to force you beliefs on her.
That's low.

Not to mention illegal.

Vote early, at first I thoguht you had a good idea, but when I heard the virgin-sheets thing I began to think you're nuts cause not every woman bleeds when they're virginity is taken away, #1, #2, you're going to be with them on their wedding night?!, #3, she would no longer be under your control once she's married and it's her and her husbands' decision what to do about that. In fact, my wife wasn't a virgin when I first had her (which was before we wre married) even though I was and her parents couldnt do a damn thing about it if they wanted.
I thought it couldn't get any worse, but it did... if she wanted an abortion you'd blackmail her, wtf?!

I'm not going to let them fall into a pit of sin.

You cannot stop them from falling into a pit of sin if they choose to do so. God gave every person a free will. All you can do is raise them, teach them, and pray to God they will choose the right path.

You cannot stop them from falling into a pit of sin if they choose to do so. God gave every person a free will. All you can do is raise them, teach them, and pray to God they will choose the right path.
Exactly... I'm a teacher and I know a lot of good parents with good kids who made a bad decision and pow... all that raising maybe told them it was wrong, but didn't actually help. You have to forgive your kids and try to help them cause chances are if something happens they'll be worse off than you will be cause it's their life they fucked up!

Oh, and you made a good case for why young girls ought not to play sports, when they grow older and marry, their husband might not be able to tell if they were honest about their virginity.
You're kidding right?
"You can play sports Jill because your future husband might be nuts."

Fortunately, I don't think many guys that uptight will get married, so it all evens out I suppose.

Fortunately, I don't think many guys that uptight will get married, so it all evens out I suppose.
I'd hope any couple getting married would be honest enough that checking the sheets wouldn't be the first time he found out she wasn't a virgin.

You're kidding right?
"You can play sports Jill because your future husband might be nuts."


The $64,000 question: are lesbians allowed to play sports?

The $64,000 question: are lesbians allowed to play sports?
good question... why don't we ask the nuts antiabortion guy?

The $64,000 question: are lesbians allowed to play sports?
They aren't allowed, so they can't exist to play sports in the first place.

The $64,000 question: are lesbians allowed to play sports?
The $125,000 question: Are lesbians allowed to get abortions?

They aren't allowed, so they can't exist to play sports in the first place.
HAHAHHA

I misread the title as "What would you do if your son got pregnant?"
Well, I'd check in to the nearest psychiatric ward.
:D

The $125,000 question: Are lesbians allowed to get abortions?
Apparantly neither are allowed, so I take that as a no...

See, they would be purely hypothetical and the only sports hypothetical people can play are hypothetical sports like hypothetical football.

Of course this all assumes that the person would have kids in the first place, also likely to be purely hypothetical as I doubt they could pick up women.

I misread the title as "What would you do if your son got pregnant?"
Well, I'd check in to the nearest psychiatric ward.
:D
LMAO... we can always leave it up to you to lighten things...

Complex issue.

First of all, as has already been suggested, I'd beat the shit out of my son.

Second, I would do all I can to help my son, his girl, and her parents come to an informed decision about what to do with the baby(adoption, abortion, etc.) Personally, I would prefer adoption. I greatly dislike abortion and I detest the idea of these youngsters destroying their options for their future by raising a child. I would consider adopting the child myself and I would respect any decision by the girl's parents to do the same.

If she, with understanding of the consequences and support of her family decided on an abortion, I would support the decision. I don't agree with it, but it's not my body and not my decision legally or morally.

I really don't want my son marrying and supporting a wife and son at that age. Again, assuming they are of legal age, it's not my decision and I'd support them.

After the smoke cleared, I'd beat the shit out of my son one more time. :)

Complex issue.

First of all, as has already been suggested, I'd beat the shit out of my son.

Second, I would do all I can to help my son, his girl, and her parents come to an informed decision about what to do with the baby(adoption, abortion, etc.) Personally, I would prefer adoption. I greatly dislike abortion and I detest the idea of these youngsters destroying their options for their future by raising a child. I would consider adopting the child myself and I would respect any decision by the girl's parents to do the same.

If she, with understanding of the consequences and support of her family decided on an abortion, I would support the decision. I don't agree with it, but it's not my body and not my decision legally or morally.

I really don't want my son marrying and supporting a wife and son at that age. Again, assuming they are of legal age, it's not my decision and I'd support them.

After the smoke cleared, I'd beat the shit out of my son one more time. :)
WOO HOO! LG's here!

If my daughter doesn't bleed for her husband on their wedding night, (and I'll be saving the sheets, since the bible says they are to be saved, so nobody can ever say she wasn't a virgin when I let him marry her, but anyway) if she doesn't bleed for him, that means that she lied to me and tricked me throughout her teenage years, and that would warrant a major beating, no questions asked.

not that there haven't been enough people pointing this out, but a great many girls don't bleed when they lose their virginity. in fact, i don't think a single one of my female friends did. this is due partly to the fact that girls tend to break their hymens long before having sex (due to more active lives and more common use of tampons by girls who aren't sexually active) and also is partly due to the fact that it is far less socially acceptable for males to be crappy in bed these days. even a girl who has a hymen when she first has sex may not bleed if her partner goes slowly, because her body can have a chance to relax and sort of stretch things out instead of just having him "pop" her.

frankly, if your son makes a girl bleed, or if your daughter is with a man who makes her bleed, you should not regard that as a good thing.


Like I said before, my mother beat the tar out of me, but I never did anything to earn it, but I still took it. Had I done something to earn it, it'd have been a different story. But there is nothing wrong, in principle, with beating a kid, some kids need it.
if you honestly think you will have any right to steal your child's wedding sheets or beat your daughter on her wedding night, then i think we all can see why somebody would want to "beat the tar" out of you. if only it were possible to beat the cowardice out of somebody...

WOO HOO! LG's here!

Indeed. :cool:

Indeed. :cool:
I must say, you're qutie right with a lot of what you say so before even reading I had the mindset it would probably be much the same as what I would do and it is.

Argh! I hate joining threads late :(

But back to the first initial question of the thread. I'm pro-life concerning this matter, and yeah, I'll beat up my son too for being stupid.

I wouldn't force them to marry though, I'll let them decide and then marry if they may, because in most cases they would eventually end up in divorce and eventually the breakup would be worse for the kid compared to if they never were together IMO.

At that age, I would withold responsibility for the child for a while, till my son gets a decent education first. I just hope he learns from his mistake.

I would definitely care and make my son care for the child if the mother doesn't, and make sure it has a bright future brought up with love and tell him that he isn't a 'mistake'.

I must say, you're qutie right with a lot of what you say so before even reading I had the mindset it would probably be much the same as what I would do and it is.

And people say I'm the crazy one. :p

Edit: Speaking of crazy...


I think it would also be appropriate to inform my son that if he wants to continue to have functional genitals, he ought to be more careful how he uses them in the future. :D

Being a male age 14-16, and with a girlfriend age 14-16 (both 16 in this case) I can honestly tell you, if I got her pregnant, that I'd do everything in my power to convince her not to get an abortion, and to help raise the child. Chances are my parents would probably throw me out of the house and never speak to me again - but I'm hoping that they'd see that bringing another life into this world is more important than how it came about.

I don't care how much it would hurt my future, I'd do everything I could to raise my son or daughter.

Chances are, as much as I love my girlfriend... I still wouldn't marry her.

Argh! I hate joining threads late :(

But back to the first initial question of the thread. I'm pro-life concerning this matter, and yeah, I'll beat up my son too for being stupid.

I wouldn't force them to marry though, I'll let them decide and then marry if they may, because in most cases they would eventually end up in divorce and eventually the breakup would be worse for the kid compared to if they never were together IMO.

At that age, I would withold responsibility for the child for a while, till my son gets a decent education first. I just hope he learns from his mistake.

I would definitely care and make my son care for the child if the mother doesn't, and make sure it has a bright future brought up with love and tell him that he isn't a 'mistake'.what if the girl wanted to have an abortion? you say you are pro-life, so what would you do about it if she didn't feel the same as you?

EDIT: just to be clear, this isn't intended to sound harsh or accusatory. i re-read it and realized it might come off that way. i'm honestly just curious about what you would do in that situation. VE has made a few interesting statements about what he would try to do, but i like to assume that most pro-life people are a little less...interesting...than VE.

And people say I'm the crazy one. :p

Edit: Speaking of crazy...


I think it would also be appropriate to inform my son that if he wants to continue to have functional genitals, he ought to be more careful how he uses them in the future. :D
I've always been a bit nuts... okay, really fucked up to be quite frank... lol

Yeah, I'd do that, too.

not that there haven't been enough people pointing this out, but a great many girls don't bleed when they lose their virginity. in fact, i don't think a single one of my female friends did. this is due partly to the fact that girls tend to break their hymens long before having sex (due to more active lives and more common use of tampons by girls who aren't sexually active) and also is partly due to the fact that it is far less socially acceptable for males to be crappy in bed these days. even a girl who has a hymen when she first has sex may not bleed if her partner goes slowly, because her body can have a chance to relax and sort of stretch things out instead of just having him "pop" her.

frankly, if your son makes a girl bleed, or if your daughter is with a man who makes her bleed, you should not regard that as a good thing.


if you honestly think you will have any right to steal your child's wedding sheets or beat your daughter on her wedding night, then i think we all can see why somebody would want to "beat the tar" out of you. if only it were possible to beat the cowardice out of somebody...

If she is over 18, than it's illegal. Plus I he would need to have a kid 1st, and seeing with the way he talks about women, that wont happen.

I don't care how much it would hurt my future, I'd do everything I could to raise my son or daughter..
you're a smart kid... I must give you that... though, if you really did want to care for the kids you'd need a future, so you'd probably want to talk to guidence conselours at school or teachers cause chances are they'd love to help you.

I've gotta get some grading of tests done :headbang: , so maybe I'll be on later. Seeya! :cool:

If she is over 18, than it's illegal.

since the majority of stat rape cases are older males with younger females, and since the topic did not give me any reason to assume stat rape was an issue, i did not include that in my points. also, it would not necessarily be illegal if she were over 18; in many states, an 18 or 19 year old could have a sexual relationship with a 16 year old and it would be perfectly legal.


Plus I he would need to have a kid 1st, and seeing with the way he talks about women, that wont happen.
never underestimate the idiotic masochism of females. women marry men who rape them, who beat them, who treat them like garbage. women marry men like VE, and worse. they then spend their lives pumping out little boys who will grow up to abuse their women, and little girls who will grow up and marry men who will beat them and knock them up with the next generation of victims.

not to be gloomy, or anything.

you're a smart kid... I must give you that... though, if you really did want to care for the kids you'd need a future, so you'd probably want to talk to guidence conselours at school or teachers cause chances are they'd love to help you.
Oh, believe me, I know. My parents would be uber-pissed, but hey, that'd be the price I'd pay. It'd probably just be a temporary setback, but right now, my university education depends upon the willingness of my parents to pay for it. I'm sure I could do it - it'd just slow things down, thats all.

To actually answer the question, I would like to think that I would support my son in any decision he makes. Ofcourse I dont actually know how I would react.

If I got my g/f pregnant at 17 which was when we first had sex, I would've asked her to get an abortion. Ofcourse we used protection condom/the pill
and thankfully nothing happened but a good time.

what if the girl wanted to have an abortion? you say you are pro-life, so what would you do about it if she didn't feel the same as you?

EDIT: just to be clear, this isn't intended to sound harsh or accusatory. i re-read it and realized it might come off that way. i'm honestly just curious about what you would do in that situation. VE has made a few interesting statements about what he would try to do, but i like to assume that most pro-life people are a little less...interesting...than VE.

No problems.

I am pro-life concerning this issue, as in that my children impregnated another girl. But concerning rape and pregnancy, thats another tread to be discussed.

If she wants an abortion I would however protest as much as possible for her to deliver the child, at worst bring to court. And I would keep and raise the child if she doesn't want the child.

EDIT: I don't like the idea there's an easy way out for everytime you get someone preggo. There should be more responsiblity involved.

But if she gets an illegal abortion, nothing much I can do about it can't I? :(

Personally, I would encourage any decision that my son and the girl he impregnated except for adoption. Abortion is legal up until the end of the first trimester, if they haven't made they're mind up about their options by then its too late, in my eyes. They would have to take responsibility for the child since at the end of the first trimester it would have to be born. I wouldn't allow them to just make the child somebody else's problem. After saying that, I would be fine with an abortion if they are. But if it so happens that they decide to have the child, I would support them in any goddamn way i could so that the child could have a good life and since the child would be family, I would care for and protect him or her with all the power i have. If the two teens decide not to marry, i'm fine with that. If one or the other decides to look after the child by themselves i would help them in any way possible and allow them to live in my home. If the girl decided to look after the child alone, me and my son would pay child benefit cheques. if my son looked after the child, i would hope that the girl would also pay some child benefits. Thats all i have to say about that.

No problems.

I am pro-life concerning this issue, as in that my children impregnated another girl. But concerning rape and pregnancy, thats another tread to be discussed.

If she wants an abortion I would however protest as much as possible for her to deliver the child, at worst bring to court. And I would keep and raise the child if she doesn't want the child.

But if she gets an illegal abortion, nothing much I can do about it can't I? :(
do you live in America?

if you do, i should warn you that you would have no legal recourse if she wanted to have an abortion, and it certainly isn't illegal to have an abortion in America (yet).

it's good that you would at least offer to rear the child, given that you oppose abortion...i can't stand the people who oppose abortion but wouldn't be willing to rear the child themselves, because they really seem like colossal hypocrites to me.

What would you do if your son, aged between 14 and 16, got a girl pregnant?
Be supportive, help in any way possible, and lose my temper if she chooses abortion.

3) What the hell are you doing in the bedroom on the morning after her marriage? You as a father have abso-f'in-lutely no business being there. If I were your son-in-law, I'd put you in traction for merely poking around in the room. I'd sever your arms from the rest of you with a wood-chipper so you could never touch her again if you actually beat her.



My daughter would be marrying a man I approve of, and so he'd have no problem with my taking the sheets to preserve her reputation against any future lies, besides it's a custom in some Italian/Sicilian towns still, and any man who won't respect my cultural background, can get lost.

Any man who disagreed with my right to beat my kids, It'd be his right, if he tried to kill me over it though, well... Hmmm, I won't even begin to say what would happen.

I'll beat the shit out of my son, ask that the girl get an abortion, and if she refuses then I'll beat him up again (but I'll support the new baby).
Yeah, that doesn't seem too bad. I sure hope I face nothing of that sort when I become a father.

Vote early, at first I thoguht you had a good idea, but when I heard the virgin-sheets thing I began to think you're nuts cause not every woman bleeds when they're virginity is taken away, #1, #2, you're going to be with them on their wedding night?!, #3, she would no longer be under your control once she's married and it's her and her husbands' decision what to do about that. In fact, my wife wasn't a virgin when I first had her (which was before we wre married) even though I was and her parents couldnt do a damn thing about it if they wanted.
I thought it couldn't get any worse, but it did... if she wanted an abortion you'd blackmail her, wtf?!


If my daughter tells my future son-in-law, before they're married, "I'm a virgin", well I'm going to make damn sure the man isn't being lied to, he'd deserve better than that.

Anyway, fine, good point, I'd not be there, he could send me the sheets via FedEx or something. But I'd want the sheets, the BIBLE commands the brides family to keep them. It's not a polite suggestion, it's the words of God revealed to man.

My daughter would be marrying a man I approve of
How sure are you? Can you see the future?

On the original topic, I'd be annoyed if they didn't use protection. :p Other than that worried... Id want to meet the girl and discuss action to be taken, whether that's keeping the baby, adoption or abortion.

It would be a stressful time but we'd all make it. I've seen it done, so it obviously can be.

And off topic: Loads of women don't bleed when they first have sex anyway... And even if they do it might not end of the sheets. Trust me, I'm a woman.

So you are not pro-choice, but you are por-abortion? You don't think she has a right to keep the child or give it up for adoption? :(

Ofcourse she does. But i am pro-abortion in these case.I believe its better than giving ur child away and thinkin all your life of that and ur constience eating you. Im no bible fan..so please save ur breath by tryin to convince me of anythin.
sorry if im a little late with this reply..

On the original topic, I'd be annoyed if they didn't use protection. :p Other than that worried... Id want to meet the girl and discuss action to be taken, whether that's keeping the baby, adoption or abortion.

It would be a stressful time but we'd all make it. I've seen it done, so it obviously can be.

And off topic: Loads of women don't bleed when they first have sex anyway... And even if they do it might not end of the sheets. Trust me, I'm a woman.
Who said they didnt use protection?

never underestimate the idiotic masochism of females. women marry men who rape them, who beat them, who treat them like garbage. women marry men like VE, and worse. they then spend their lives pumping out little boys who will grow up to abuse their women, and little girls who will grow up and marry men who will beat them and knock them up with the next generation of victims.

not to be gloomy, or anything.



I'm not some jerky sadist, my mom beat me and I turned out fine, most kids who are out of control need a good beating. Of course I was never out of control, my mom just had a lot of anger in her.

Anyway, I think beatings ought to be reserved for kids old enough to realize what they'd been doing was wrong. Nobody ought to hit any kid who is under, maybe 12, they'll just think you're a nasty brute who likes to hit them. (I'll tell you, my mother never beat me accept at ages when I was really too young to understand what it was about, and all I see her as is a crazed brute, harpie of a woman who had an axe to grind at all males, her son being a male, being included too)

Ofcourse she does. But i am pro-abortion in these case.I believe its better than giving ur child away and thinkin all your life of that and ur constience eating you.
I'm pro-choice, for the most part. I think this is one of those times that adoption just wouldn't be right. If the girl is 14 to 16, she'd (hopefully) still be in school. For her to go through nine months of carrying somebody around while trying to live a normal teenager's life wouldn't be fair to her. If she spends too much time caring for the baby, she would likely drop out. If she spends too LITTLE time, the baby could be born sick. I'd just bring her to the parenting clinic ASAP and still kill my son.

Who said they didnt use protection?
No-one, that's why I said if. :p

And off topic: Loads of women don't bleed when they first have sex anyway... And even if they do it might not end of the sheets. Trust me, I'm a woman.

Okay fair enough, anyway, when I have kids, I don't want them to obey me because they fear me (It'll be fine if it must be that way though). But I want them to obey me because they see my way of thinking as right and virtuous. So I guess that means one must work hard to instill their values into their kids, eh?

Anyway, I think beatings ought to be reserved for kids old enough to realize what they'd been doing was wrong. Nobody ought to hit any kid who is under, maybe 12, they'll just think you're a nasty brute who likes to hit them.
agreed but I dont think you are giving kids enough credit I would say 6 years old, by the time they are 12 it would be to late and they will rebel and resist.

agreed but I dont think you are giving kids enough credit I would say 6 years old, by the time they are 12 it would be to late and they will rebel and resist.


Anyway, hitting little kids, carries a great risk of causing serious, possibly permanent damage. I wouldn't want to hurt my kids, just show them that I care enough about them to get them to do the right thing through any means necessary.

Anyway, hitting little kids, carries a great risk of causing serious, possibly permanent damage. I wouldn't want to hurt my kids, just show them that I care enough about them to get them to do the right thing through any means necessary.
im saying something like a slap on the wrist, something attention getting, I wouldn't want to actually harm them

Okay fair enough, anyway, when I have kids, I don't want them to obey me because they fear me (It'll be fine if it must be that way though). But I want them to obey me because they see my way of thinking as right and virtuous. So I guess that means one must work hard to instill their values into their kids, eh?

My parents never told me to read. Not once. However, before I knew how to read, they read to me. And I always saw them reading. Hence, I took an early interest in books myself.

That's just an example.

And yes, I think stealing your kid's sheets after their wedding night is a very bad idea. First, it's an invasion of privacy. Second, I know I don't want my dad barging in the morning after I've been married, I don't think anyone would. Third, as mentioned before, some women are born without a hymen, so they might not bleed even if they were a virgin and if the guy is good in bed, she probably won't bleed anyway.

I think the most important thing is to be a good example.

My parents never told me to read. Not once. However, before I knew how to read, they read to me. And I always saw them reading. Hence, I took an early interest in books myself.

Sounds like me. :)
I think often the best way to instil something in a child is to show them by example. Better than just telling them, especially if they're questioners, which I hope my children will be.

My parents never told me to read. Not once. However, before I knew how to read, they read to me. And I always saw them reading. Hence, I took an early interest in books myself.

That's just an example.

And yes, I think stealing your kid's sheets after their wedding night is a very bad idea. First, it's an invasion of privacy. Second, I know I don't want my dad barging in the morning after I've been married, I don't think anyone would. Third, as mentioned before, some women are born without a hymen, so they might not bleed even if they were a virgin and if the guy is good in bed, she probably won't bleed anyway.

I think the most important thing is to be a good example.


Ideally the women will bleed though. And anyway, the dad or mom (the bible I do believe specifies the mother ought to) can take the sheets while the newly wed couple is out for breakfast, that way there is no uncomfortable awkwardness.

Anyway, if for example, ten years down the road, somebody calls the woman a whore, or the husband tries to divorce her saying she wasn't a virgin, you'll have the proof.

The bible is quite clear on the matter.

Let me summarize what the Old Law says.

If the woman is given to the man on the premise that she is a virgin and she is not, he may either divorce her and/or have her stoned unto death.

If the woman is given to the man on the premise that she is a virgin, and she is indeed a virgin, and he tries to divorce her saying she is whore, and was not a virgin; then the father or mother of the woman will present the sheets, and the man who made the false accusation shall be stoned unto death.

Ideally the women will bleed though. And anyway, the dad or mom (the bible I do believe specifies the mother ought to) can take the sheets while the newly wed couple is out for breakfast, that way there is no uncomfortable awkwardness.

Anyway, if for example, ten years down the road, somebody calls the woman a whore, or the husband tries to divorce her saying she wasn't a virgin, you'll have the proof.

>snip<Ideally? WTF? Whose ideal, not mine. You're sick dude.

And where I live, those aren't recognized grounds for divorce anyways so why bother with it at all.

Ideally the women will bleed though. And anyway, the dad or mom (the bible I do believe specifies the mother ought to) can take the sheets while the newly wed couple is out for breakfast, that way there is no uncomfortable awkwardness.

Anyway, if for example, ten years down the road, somebody calls the woman a whore, or the husband tries to divorce her saying she wasn't a virgin, you'll have the proof.

The bible is quite clear on the matter.

Let me summarize what the Old Law says.

If the woman is given to the man on the premise that she is a virgin and she is not, he may either divorce her and/or have her stoned unto death.

If the woman is given to the man on the premise that she is a virgin, and she is indeed a virgin, and he tries to divorce her saying she is whore, and was not a virgin; then the father or mother of the woman will present the sheets, and the man who made the false accusation shall be stoned unto death.


Are you planning on organising a stoning?

Edit: Also along with a stoning the "virgin bride" idea went out quite a while ago.

Ideally? WTF? Whose ideal, not mine. You're sick dude.

And where I live, those aren't recognized grounds for divorce anyways so why bother with it at all.


God's ideal, He wrote the Old Law.


In my religion, divorce is never allowed, under no circumstances will a divorce be recognized by my church. If you divorce, you are out of the church, no questions asked.

God's ideal, He wrote the Old Law.

Lets not go there


In my religion, divorce is never allowed, under no circumstances will a divorce be recognized by my church. If you divorce, you are out of the church, no questions asked.

I would be happy to leave if those were the circumstances.

Lets not go there



I would be happy to leave if those were the circumstances.


1) Okay, we won't go there.


2) If you were inclined to divorce anyway, they'd not want you in. The saying is, "If God does not want you, we do not want you."

Malachi 2:14-16 (King James)
Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant.

And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.

For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away.


(New International)
You ask, "Why?" It is because the LORD is acting as the witness between you and the wife of your youth, because you have broken faith with her, though she is your partner, the wife of your marriage covenant.

Has not the LORD made them one? In flesh and spirit they are his. And why one? Because he was seeking godly offspring. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith with the wife of your youth.

"I hate divorce," says the LORD God of Israel.

2) If you were inclined to divorce anyway, they'd not want you in. The saying is, "If God does not want you, we do not want you."

In some situations divorce is the best solution for everyone. Staying in a loveless marrage isn't good. Not for the kid, not for anyone involved.

I am an atheist and proud.

I am an atheist and proud.


So you're proud that you don't believe in God? So you're "scoffing" at God?

2 Peter 3:3-13
First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires.

They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”

But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water.

By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed.

By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.

Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives;

as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.

But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.

So you're proud that you don't believe in God? So you're "scoffing" at God?

2 Peter 3:3-13
First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires.

They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”

But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water.

By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed.

By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.

Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives;

as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.

But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.

Do you not see the inherent uselessness in quoting the Bible to an atheist?

Do you not see the inherent uselessness in quoting the Bible to an atheist?


Good point. Well, anyway, I'm going to sleep. Good night all.

So you're proud that you don't believe in God? So you're "scoffing" at God?

I dont believe in him, hence I dont believe there is anything to "scoff" at. Edit: Prehaps you mean I scoff at the idea of god. I dont, I think people should have their own beliefs and live by them, if the idea of god makes them better people, more power to it.

But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water.

The problem is, to believe this verse you have to believe in god.

By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.

Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives;

as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.

But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.

Same problem with all of this. All I have to go by is the word of some(thing?) I don't think exists.

Do you not see the inherent uselessness in quoting the Bible to an atheist?

:D Right on the mark.

Okay fair enough, anyway, when I have kids, I don't want them to obey me because they fear me (It'll be fine if it must be that way though). But I want them to obey me because they see my way of thinking as right and virtuous. So I guess that means one must work hard to instill their values into their kids, eh?

as human beings shouldn't they be allowed to develop their own values and beliefs. why do they have to turn out as clones of you? from here that doesn't look like a good thing.

Are you planning on organising a stoning?

Edit: Also along with a stoning the "virgin bride" idea went out quite a while ago.

exactly, if she's got any sense she'll have slept with the guy long before they got married

exactly, if she's got any sense she'll have slept with the guy long before they got married



If she has any sense of self-worth, she won't give it up to him before he marries her, or at least strongly commits to marrying her. Women ought not to settle for just having sex. Many men are such that if they can get away with it, they'll only have "f--- buddies" and will never settle down. Current societal sickness and the culture of hedonism, only make this worse.

exactly, if she's got any sense she'll have slept with the guy long before they got married

I vehemently disagree with this.

i'd make sure they both understood all the choices they had, and then accept that it was up to them to make whatever decision they felt was best, supporting them every step of the way, and offering my home and my help if they wanted it. criticism isn't necessary once kids get into that situation, they learn pretty fast. (based on experience)


This is pretty much what I would do.

What would you do if your son, aged between 14 and 16, got a girl pregnant?
Wodja thunk: hack off his wiener?

If she has any sense of self-worth, she won't give it up to him before he marries her, or at least strongly commits to marrying her. Women ought not to settle for just having sex. Many men are such that if they can get away with it, they'll only have "f--- buddies" and will never settle down. Current societal sickness and the culture of hedonism, only make this worse.Yeah when me and my woman shacked up we didn't settle for just sex, we popped out a few kids. I even gave them my name.


After 14 years we decided "what the heck, lets get married".

That was 7 years ago.

By contrast I've seen dozens of couples who did things the old fashioned way you promote divorce and seperate while we're still together.

EDIT: While I'm thinking of it, I'll answer Kahta's original question. Since I do have a son who just turned 17, I think I'm qualified. If he got some girl pregnant, my first reaction would be probably to smack him on the back of the head and ask him what the hell he did with those condoms I gave him.

I'm not some jerky sadist, my mom beat me and I turned out find

I think that's debatable :D

exactly, if she's got any sense she'll have slept with the guy long before they got married
agreed. i would be very very concerned if either of my "kids" got married to somebody they hadn't even slept with...i think that's dishonorable, frankly, and i wouldn't have any confidence in the union. it would be their choice, and i wouldn't try to block their wedding or anything that stupid, but if they asked my opinion i would give it to them without hesitation.

agreed. i would be very very concerned if either of my "kids" got married to somebody they hadn't even slept with...i think that's dishonorable, frankly, and i wouldn't have any confidence in the union. it would be their choice, and i wouldn't try to block their wedding or anything that stupid, but if they asked my opinion i would give it to them without hesitation.

I see your point here. I mean, sex is a very important part of a relationship and if they're sexually incompatible it could wreck their marriage.

But like you said, you wouldn't do anything stupid, just give advice as a parent.

The message here being, "try before you buy." :p

I see your point here. I mean, sex is a very important part of a relationship and if they're sexually incompatible it could wreck their marriage.

But like you said, you wouldn't do anything stupid, just give advice as a parent.

The message here being, "try before you buy." :p
when i hear people saying they would promise to share their life with another person before they would share their body, it sounds like a disgusting set of values to me. it places far too much importance on sex, elevating sex to a higher level of exclusiveness than (romantic) love...i believe that you should most selective about who you choose to be in love with, because that bond is far more significant and profound--and more potentially powerful--than any sexual encounter could be.

i believe that two people should never enter into marriage until they have made every effort to know each other as the whole individuals they are. no couple will ever be able to know each other completely, of course, and married couples will always continue to discover things about each other, but i believe it is wrong to enter a union without having done everything in your power to ensure that you know and cherish the fullness of your partner.

I'm not some jerky sadist, my mom beat me and I turned out find [sic], most kids who are out of control need a good beating. Of course I was never out of control, my mom just had a lot of anger in her.


Suddenly the sexism and homophobia make sense. Jury is still out on the racism.

But I'd want the sheets, the BIBLE commands the brides family to keep them. It's not a polite suggestion, it's the words of God revealed to man.

Where is that, out of curiousity?

Where is that, out of curiousity?
VE is insane. It's not in the bible, The bible doesn't say " Bust into your daughters honeymoon room and jack her sheets ".

On the side note, you still have not answered why women shouldn't be allowed to play sports, I await your answer on this, should make just about as much sense as the rest of your comments.


But it's very simple what I would do. Beat the shit out of my son, ask the women weather she wanted to get an abortion or adoption.

On the side note, you still have not answered why women shouldn't be allowed to play sports, I await your answer on this, should make just about as much sense as the rest of your comments.


"In case her future husband('s father) is nuts..."

High fives all round? Maybe 'Go on my son!'?

Where is that, out of curiousity?


It's in Leviticus, I shall get the exact passage later, I have to get ready for classes.

It's in Leviticus, I shall get the exact passage later, I have to get ready for classes.

Leviticus being the one that allows you to sell your daughters?

Regardless of what happened, I'd offer to let her live in my house, and I'd get another job if necessary, to make sure the grandson (it could be a girl, but ideally I want a grandson first, but lots of grandchildren so yeah, some will certainly be girls) is well taken care of.

If my son refused to marry her, I'd throw him out until he got his sense of responsibility back.

If they did marry, which is the only thing I'd really accept, they'd live in my house until my son completed college and had a job, or until I wheeled and dealed to get him a job at whatever company I'll be working for that far ahead in the future.
Yeah, pretty much. Not neccessarily shotgun marriage, but I'd force him to support her.

Leviticus being the one that allows you to sell your daughters?


That is a horribly and purposefully wrong interpretation. It says you can send your daughter to be a domestic servant (what amounts to a domestic servant) in another's house.

Ideally the women will bleed though. And anyway, the dad or mom (the bible I do believe specifies the mother ought to) can take the sheets while the newly wed couple is out for breakfast, that way there is no uncomfortable awkwardness.

Anyway, if for example, ten years down the road, somebody calls the woman a whore, or the husband tries to divorce her saying she wasn't a virgin, you'll have the proof.

The bible is quite clear on the matter.



Hahaha! This is the funniest stuff I have read all day... no, week... no, year!!! :)

If my 16-year-old son (I do have one) got his girlfriend (he does have one) pregnant, I would support them both no matter what they decided to do. Have an abortion, or live in my house if they wanted, but I suppose she would want to live with her own mother... or I could help them with money to get somewhere to live on their own. I would not recommend anything to them one way or the other after she's already pregnant, but I did have a dream last night that I gave my son condoms... I think maybe I will, too... at least have THE TALK with him.

And I have already been there - last summer as I was happily drinking a beer in a pub, I got a text message from my daughter, saying (I have saved it): "Mum, don't get angry or have a fit or anything, but you're going to be a grandmother in December, and that's that." Admittedly she's a bit older than 16, but I was still rather shocked :) Anyway, I have a beautiful granddaughter now, I love being a grandmother, it's fantastic :)

not that there haven't been enough people pointing this out, but a great many girls don't bleed when they lose their virginity. in fact, i don't think a single one of my female friends did. this is due partly to the fact that girls tend to break their hymens long before having sex (due to more active lives and more common use of tampons by girls who aren't sexually active) and also is partly due to the fact that it is far less socially acceptable for males to be crappy in bed these days. even a girl who has a hymen when she first has sex may not bleed if her partner goes slowly, because her body can have a chance to relax and sort of stretch things out instead of just having him "pop" her.


One of the reasons that tampons are a problem, at least for women who aren't married yet. Unmarried teenage girls, probably ought not to use tampons then, if it risks making it so they don't bleed.

Anyway, how is less socially acceptable to be bad in bed? It's now a town event, "Come one, come all, see the newly wed couple consummate the marriage!" nobody ought to be there except them. (And probably one of the parents of the bride, in a nearby room, to collect the all-important sheets after the deed is done)

That is a horribly and purposefully wrong interpretation. It says you can send your daughter to be a domestic servant (what amounts to a domestic servant) in another's house.

Oh, really? Try actually reading leviticus. You'll find it also says that eating shellfish is an abomination.

Anyway, as for the matter at hand:

First, I would get REALLY REALLY MAD at him and call him an irresponsible swine.

Then I would calm down, tell him I love him, and offer to support he and his girlfriend in whatever he chose to do, be it abortion, marriage, or whatever. However, if he didn't want to have a child and the girl refused to abort it, I would not force him to marry her or even see her, although I'd offer support myself. People shouldn't spend their whole lives paying for a mistake they made when they were young- part of the reason pro-lifers freak me out so much. What are they, masochists or something?

People shouldn't spend their whole lives paying for a mistake they made when they were young- part of the reason pro-lifers freak me out so much. What are they, masochists or something?


So the unborn child ought to pay?

P.S Girls can break their hymens horse-riding or doing martial arts, so relying on that as an indicator of virginity is a bit silly. Also, in Asian countries, non-virgin women have been known to put a bit of fresh liver up there so it bleeds on their wedding night. Clever stuff.

So the unborn child ought to pay?

A couple of dividing cells is not an unborn child. It is a potential unborn child. Just as you cannot consider wood pulp to be a bestselling novel, or a hard-boiled egg to be a full-grown chicken.

I didn't say I advocated partial-birth abortions, did I?

A couple of dividing cells is not an unborn child. It is a potential unborn child. Just as you cannot consider wood pulp to be a bestselling novel, or a hard-boiled egg to be a full-grown chicken.

I didn't say I advocated partial-birth abortions, did I?

I believe that at the second of conception, God instills the soul into the unborn child, and to kill it, is the same as killing a grown adult.

Abortion is only acceptable in a case of rape or a case where it's life-threatening to the mother.

Using abortion as a form of birth-control, ought to be treated as 1st degree murder.

I believe that at the second of conception, God instills the soul into the unborn child, and to kill it, is the same as killing a grown adult.

If you're going to bring religion into the argument, I'm going to leave. Religion and rational thought have notoriously little to do with each other.

Abortion is only acceptable in a case of rape or a case where it's life-threatening to the mother.

What about overpopulation? What if the mother is fourteen years old? Surely she shouldn't suffer because of the shoddy Sex Education system...

Using abortion as a form of birth-control, ought to be treated as 1st degree murder.

So should forcing women to turn to backstreet abortionists. Ever seen a prolapsed uterus?

Pro-lifers should be loaded onto a rocket and fired into the sun.

So VoteEarly...

You're in favour of: Beating kids, beating your children once they have become adults, stealing bed sheets from newly married couples to check if the woman bled, women who bleed when they lose their virginity, forcing a woman to have a child even if they used all methods of contraception available to them, giving your daughter to another household to be used as a domestic servant, viewing women as objects rather than actual people, having family in nearby rooms waiting to take the sheets after the wedding night etc etc etc

You're against: Sex before marrige, marrige to someone who his daughter likes but you don't approve of (you say if he doesn't respect your past and traditions then you won't allow her to marry him, what about you respecting his past and traditions? mmmmmm hypocracy), allowing women to play sports or do any sort of exercise which makes them not bleed when they lose their virginity, freedom of the child after 18 to be a self sufficient adult who doesn't have to fear her parents beating her, allowing women to mary who they want, allowing them to think for themsleves, a proper understanding of the nature of a womans body etc etc etc

just so i know...because if you have ever sinned in your life, and i guarantee you that you will have, you are a hypocrite forcing your beliefs on others in a truly sadistic and very non-christian manner.

just so i know...because if you have ever sinned in your life, and i guarantee you that you will have,


Then you don't know me that well. I've kept the commandments and have lived a Godly life. Anyway, what few minor sins of the mind that I've committed, I have repented for.

Punch the little shit in the face.

aiming a bit lower would probably be more of a deterrent

What about overpopulation? What if the mother is fourteen years old? Surely she shouldn't suffer because of the shoddy Sex Education system...

Pro-lifers should be loaded onto a rocket and fired into the sun.


1) Whites are not overpopulated. We need more kids.


2) Killing people for being in favor of letting others live? Very rational...

Then you don't know me that well. I've kept the commandments and have lived a Godly life. Anyway, what few minor sins of the mind that I've committed, I have repented for.

Wrong, according to the Bible, the only one who is without sin is Jesus. Therefore you must have sinned, hence you also break "Let he who has no sin cast the first stone." Only Jesus was without sin, so if you do anything to harm someone, not forgive them for what they have done etc etc, then you have sinned. Your repentance is a cheap excuse for you.

I believe that at the second of conception, God instills the soul into the unborn child, and to kill it, is the same as killing a grown adult.

Abortion is only acceptable in a case of rape....

A bit hypocritical, I think. If your belief is that an embryo is ensoulled at conception, then it is murder to abort, regardless of whether the embryo is the product of rape or not.

So much for your argument of not letting the unborn child pay.

Emphasis added...

1) Whites are not overpopulated. We need more kids.


2) Killing people for being in favor of letting others live? Very rational...

Whites? WHITES?

Racism, child-beating, banning women from horse riding, banning them from sports, banning using tampons, and skulking in the room next to newly weds?

Thank the Lord for Christianity.

Emphasis added...



Whites? WHITES?

Racism, child-beating, banning women from horse riding, banning them from sports, banning using tampons, and skulking in the room next to newly weds?

Thank the Lord for Christianity.

not forgetting Calvinsim too, we don't want to put everyone who believes in christ into the same melting pot now do we?

Emphasis added...



Whites? WHITES?

Racism, child-beating, banning women from horse riding, banning them from sports, banning using tampons, and skulking in the room next to newly weds?

Thank the Lord for Christianity.

Don't tar all of us with the same brush. I assure you I am a Christian, and I find the attitudes defined above laughably out of date, misogynistic, hateful, violent, and above all, criminal.

I'm not some jerky sadist, my mom beat me and I turned out fine, most kids who are out of control need a good beating. Of course I was never out of control, my mom just had a lot of anger in her.

If I was your mom I would be angry too. I think she is regretting not having chosen to swallow instead.

I think VE is insane. I feel bad for the women he tricks into marrying him.

It would depend on how old my son and the girl were. I mean if they were in love and adults and having a baby, I'd be thrilled.

If I was your mom I would be angry too. I think she is regretting not having chosen to swallow instead.


That made absolutely no sense at all. Oral sex has nothing to do with pregnancy.

And that's pretty much a flame/bait, but I'll leave it for the mods to decide.

Still waiting on your answer.

I'll ask again incase you forgot.

Q: Why should young women not be allowed to play sports or use tampons, and if you have a reason, how is it sane on any level?

Still waiting on your answer.

I'll ask again incase you forgot.

Q: Why should young women not be allowed to play sports or use tampons, and if you have a reason, how is it sane on any level?


Because in the days when the Old Testament was written there were no DNA tests and men had to be sure that children were theirs, so another man or his children did not take over your estate after your death. Therefore women MUST be virgins at marriage and be strictly controlled to ensure they cannot get pregnant by other men. Ergo no sport or tampons as the only way for medically unenlightened people to be sure is breaking the hymen.

And that's pretty much a flame/bait, but I'll leave it for the mods to decide.

Whatever,

You are in no position to pontificate (ironic word usage should be noted by the dim) on the marriage bed, sheets, or whatever else you freaks collect as souvenirs either.

Its a good century, come join it.

Scarily enough my friend and I were talking about this at lunch. And we're not even out of school yet :p

Anyway, I'd do my best to be there for him and the girl. Give her a place to stay if her own parents were less than happy with it and such. I'd prefer for her to keep it since it would be my grandchild but I would be supportive if she had an abortion. If she kept it I'd make sure my son did his bit, rather than just leaving it for the girl to deal with.

And at some point along the way I'd make sure (as tactfully as I could) that said son didn't pressure the girl into it in any way. If it seems as though he did he would be in some serious trouble. As he would if the reason she got pregnant was because he didn't wear a condom. A split condom I'll forgive but not wearing one...hell to pay.

And then I'd happily dig out old baby clothes and toys :D

nobody ought to be there except them. (And probably one of the parents of the bride, in a nearby room, to collect the all-important sheets after the deed is done)


Then you don't know me that well. I've kept the commandments and have lived a Godly life. Anyway, what few minor sins of the mind that I've committed, I have repented for.


Whites are not overpopulated. We need more kids.


It's not possible to take this person seriously... I don't believe he's real. :cool:

Because in the days when the Old Testament was written there were no DNA tests and men had to be sure that children were theirs, so another man or his children did not take over your estate after your death. Therefore women MUST be virgins at marriage and be strictly controlled to ensure they cannot get pregnant by other men. Ergo no sport or tampons as the only way for medically unenlightened people to be sure is breaking the hymen.

Because the makes sense (!)

Some women are born with no hymen at all, so I guess they need to get stoned to death, huh?

VE is still making no sense, he's probably somones puppet.

Because the makes sense (!)

Some women are born with no hymen at all, so I guess they need to get stoned to death, huh?

VE is still making no sense, he's probably somones puppet.

Yep, the Bible needs you to stone them because you can't tell if their virgins. I think it's things like that and the incest that lend it its name - the 'Good Book'

VE is still making no sense, he's probably somones puppet.

I'm a major RPer in II, I'm nobody's puppet.

A bit hypocritical, I think. If your belief is that an embryo is ensoulled at conception, then it is murder to abort, regardless of whether the embryo is the product of rape or not.

So much for your argument of not letting the unborn child pay.


The mother comes first in that regard, since she ought not to be forced to bear the child of a rapist, since the sex was not something she willingly undertook. A woman who is promiscuous and gets pregnant, well she ought to have thought things through. Even if it's just 1 time, 1 time is all it takes, and I say, "If you're mature and grown-up enough to be having sex, you better be mature enough to deal with anything that results."

It's not possible to take this person seriously... I don't believe he's real. :cool:


I'm quite real.

Q: Why should young women not be allowed to play sports or use tampons, and if you have a reason, how is it sane on any level?


I've already answered this in that it may make it such that they don't bleed on their wedding night, and a man has the right to know if she's lying or telling the truth about her virginity.

A woman has the right to know also, so if someday I'm going to get married, and the bride wants, I'd take a polygraph.

A woman has the right to know also, so if someday I'm going to get married, and the bride wants, I'd take a polygraph.

Would you take a polograph to determine if you thought she was an equal partner in marriage? I have to ask in all serousness, are there really women who think like you?

I'm a woman. Wanna see my boobies?
( * )( * )


how. . . uplifting :)

Ooooops, that ended up on the wrong thread. Someone asked my gender.

*blushes*

Would you take a polograph to determine if you thought she was an equal partner in marriage? I have to ask in all serousness, are there really women who think like you?



Sure there are, and I believe women are equal partners in their own special ways. But what the husband says in regards to overall family matters, that is final. "The foot is down" sort of thing, it's really for the best.

If a woman can't defer to (and thus show confidence in) a man's leadership, how can he trust her. If she doesn't trust him to lead, why should he trust her?

Sure there are, and I believe women are equal partners in their own special ways. But what the husband says in regards to overall family matters, that is final. "The foot is down" sort of thing, it's really for the best.
Why? How can one objectively determine that he necessarily knows best in this, or any other, regard?

If a woman can't defer to (and thus show confidence in) a man's leadership, how can he trust her. If she doesn't trust him to lead, why should he trust her?
There are many men that show leadership qualities, and there are some that are natural followers. There are many women that show leadership qualities and there are some that are natural followers. Let's say one of the following men marries a leading women. Should she still let him lead her, even though there is no rational and objective reason for her to do so?

Men can be stupid and ignorant as well as women, don't you think?

Then you don't know me that well. I've kept the commandments and have lived a Godly life. Anyway, what few minor sins of the mind that I've committed, I have repented for.

Whatever happened to 'let he who is without sin' and all that? I thought the whole point of christianity was acknowledging that everyone is a sinner and that is only through Jesus dying for OUR sins that we can get to Heaven etc etc. Of course this might just be what I was taught was incorrect. I'd be very interested to hear VoteEarly's response on this; it is entirely possible that there is something I'm missing entirely about the Christian message.

EDIT: oops didn't see Kellarly's previous reply.

Whatever happened to 'let he who is without sin' and all that? I thought the whole point of christianity was acknowledging that everyone is a sinner and that is only through Jesus dying for OUR sins that we can get to Heaven etc etc. Of course this might just be what I was taught was incorrect. I'd be very interested to hear VoteEarly's response on this; it is entirely possible that there is something I'm missing entirely about the Christian message.According to what he's said before, there's only a certain 'elect' that are destined for heaven - Christ apparently died for them or something, not all sinners as I too had been led to believe. I'm sure he can explain it in more detail, but that's VE's rough stance, I think.

Whatever happened to 'let he who is without sin' and all that? I thought the whole point of christianity was acknowledging that everyone is a sinner and that is only through Jesus dying for OUR sins that we can get to Heaven etc etc. Of course this might just be what I was taught was incorrect. I'd be very interested to hear VoteEarly's response on this; it is entirely possible that there is something I'm missing entirely about the Christian message.


Christ died (Atoned) for the sins of his Elect. "I am the good shepherd, and I lay down my life my sheep." (His sheep = his elect).

John 10:15 "I lay down my life for the sheep."

Acts 20:28 "shepherd the church of God that He obtained with the blood of His own Son."

Ephesians 5:25 "love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her."


Romans 9:16 "So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy."

Ephesians 1:4 "Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him."


John 15:16 "You did not choose me, but I chose you."

Ephesians 1:11 "In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will."

1 Thessalonians 1:4-5 "For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you, because our gospel came to you not only in word, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit."

Romans 9:11 "though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad- in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of his call."

Colossians 2:13 "When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him."

John 1:13 "born not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God."

Sure there are, and I believe women are equal partners in their own special ways. But what the husband says in regards to overall family matters, that is final. "The foot is down" sort of thing, it's really for the best.

If a woman can't defer to (and thus show confidence in) a man's leadership, how can he trust her. If she doesn't trust him to lead, why should he trust her?

Aiiee, the danger there is assuming that we are all fit to lead:) My wife teaches science, there is no way I am going to correct her in her field (physics). When you say equal in 'their own special ways' it sounds patronizing. Family matters entails a rather wide spectrum that I am not willing to say I am always qualified to render a decision upon. Power sharing should be situational, not absolute. Now if I could only get the remote back. . .

What would you do if your son got a girl pregnant?

Let my husband handle it. It's a father-son thing. I'd probably apologize to the girl's parents and yeah. It's one of those Only-At-The-Moment type of things.

Christ died (Atoned) for the sins of his Elect. "I am the good shepherd, and I lay down my life my sheep." (His sheep = his elect).

John 10:15 "I lay down my life for the sheep."

...............................

John 1:13 "born not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God."

You see to me that's just a list of bible quotes taken out of context- for instance the one from Ephesians 1:4 - only 3 verses later has 'In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace.' Perhaps you could inform a poor uneducated sinner how you can construct a belief system in that way which seems entirely divorced from the most fundamental messages of the bible?
Please don't take this as an attack on your beliefs more as curiosity.

I've already answered this in that it may make it such that they don't bleed on their wedding night, and a man has the right to know if she's lying or telling the truth about her virginity.

A woman has the right to know also, so if someday I'm going to get married, and the bride wants, I'd take a polygraph.
You know, 2000 B.C. is an ok year, if you like to beat and abuse women and children , but you should really come into the 21st century! We have things like equal rights. And common sense.

What would you do if your son, aged between 14 and 16, got a girl pregnant?

First of all, you should prepare for the future. Explain to him how to use a condem, if he does happen to have sex! This is something that so many parents overlook! We are in a new generation! It happens!
Back to the real question at hand, there is only one thing that you can do. Accept it.Pushing him or his "girlfriend" away will only cause problems.
Therefore he will turn on you and so will his girlfriend. There is a good possibility that you will not see your grandchild. (personal opinion of course)

You see to me that's just a list of bible quotes taken out of context- for instance the one from Ephesians 1:4 - only 3 verses later has 'In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace.' Perhaps you could inform a poor uneducated sinner how you can construct a belief system in that way which seems entirely divorced from the most fundamental messages of the bible?
Please don't take this as an attack on your beliefs more as curiosity.

The bible is quite clear, there is indeed an Elect, there is predestination, just read the below.


Romans 11:4-7
4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Romans 9:10-15 (King James Version)
10And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; )
12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.




Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Mark 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Luke 18:1 And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint;
2 Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man:
3 And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary.
4 And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man;
5 Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.
6 And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith.
7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Colossians 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

1 Thessalonians 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
2 We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers;
3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.
10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;
4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

1 Peter 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1 Peter 5:13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

2 John 1:1 The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;
2 For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever.

2 John 1:13 The children of thy elect sister greet thee. Amen.

If I was your mom I would be angry too. I think she is regretting not having chosen to swallow instead.

Knock it off!

The mother comes first in that regard, since she ought not to be forced to bear the child of a rapist, since the sex was not something she willingly undertook. A woman who is promiscuous and gets pregnant, well she ought to have thought things through. Even if it's just 1 time, 1 time is all it takes, and I say, "If you're mature and grown-up enough to be having sex, you better be mature enough to deal with anything that results."


You don't see the irony in your statements?

1)Life begins at conception; the embryo is ensoulled; it is murder to abort it.
2)Unless the woman has been raped;
3)But if she wasn't raped, make her have the kid no matter what her situation is, she deserves it.

Big issue in Belgium at the moment.

I guess it's better then your granny that's pregnant.

You don't see the irony in your statements?

1)Life begins at conception; the embryo is ensoulled; it is murder to abort it.
2)Unless the woman has been raped;
3)But if she wasn't raped, make her have the kid no matter what her situation is, she deserves it.


Meh, I just think I'm flexible, I wouldn't want a rape victim to be forced to bear the child of her attacker, it's just really not right.

Sure there are, and I believe women are equal partners in their own special ways. But what the husband says in regards to overall family matters, that is final. "The foot is down" sort of thing, it's really for the best.

If a woman can't defer to (and thus show confidence in) a man's leadership, how can he trust her. If she doesn't trust him to lead, why should he trust her?


If the man is so insecure he cannot stand to have a woman who thinks and is a true partner in his life, and that he thinks being a man is having the last word, he's a pretty sad specimen of his gender.

Being in a marriage is being in a partnership. Both need to bend; both need to compromise. Anything else is mere servitude.

If the man is so insecure he cannot stand to have a woman who thinks and is a true partner in his life, and that he thinks being a man is having the last word, he's a pretty sad specimen of his gender.

Being in a marriage is being in a partnership. Both need to bend; both need to compromise. Anything else is mere servitude.


I look to the bible for regulations on marriage. This is what I find.


Ephesians 5:22-25 (King James Version)
22Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;



Genesis 3:16 (King James Version)
16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Good luck finding someone with so little sense of self she will accept it.

And I say again: if that is what one believes being a husband is, then he wold be much happier owning a dog than marrying.

Hey VE, I listened to the fred phelps speech (reprobate) on your profile, are all meetings you folk attend like this?

Hey VE, I listened to the fred phelps speech (reprobate) on your profile, are all meetings you folk attend like this?


Pastor Phelps is a great man, and his sermons are wonderful, yes, they are all basically like that. Indeed pretty much all true Calvinist (5 Points Calvinist) sermons are great.

I'd say, "SON! NOW WHAT THE HELL WER.....hey look a penny!"

Good luck finding someone with so little sense of self she will accept it.

And I say again: if that is what one believes being a husband is, then he wold be much happier owning a dog than marrying.


1) Thank you for the wishing of luck. :)


2) I don't particularly want somebody who is servile like a dog, just somebody who is okay with submitting to my leadership out of confidence that I know better. (Does that sound a tad arrogant? I'm not trying to sound arrogant, but in my experiences, I've come to sort of realize I know better than most people, male or female. I guess that could be construed as arrogant, but I think it's true)

Is there any way of telling if you've been predestinated or not? I mean why you in particular?

http://www.biblelight.net/witch_of_endor.htm

Is there any way of telling if you've been predestinated or not? I mean why you in particular?


The Elect will, at one time or another in their life, be irresistibly drawn to God, accept the Five Points of Calvinism as truth, repent any and all sins, and thus be saved.

If they are not Elect, they will evidence their reprobation by committing the sins that Christ says are beyond forgiveness, they will never be drawn to God, they will attack the Five Points and Calvinists, they will be blinded/hardened so as not to see the truth (Romans 11:7). God won't even let them see the truth.

http://www.biblelight.net/witch_of_endor.htm


Thanks, I wasn't sure if I had heard it correctly to google it, got it though.

Theological question, so much stock is attributed to the KJV bible but there had been so many edits prior to that how can he really say that this interpretation is the pentultimate one? I'm think specifically of the sanitizing of the Council of Nicea in 32 AD.

What would you do if your son, aged between 14 and 16, got a girl pregnant?
get a job :headbang:

1) Thank you for the wishing of luck. :)


2) I don't particularly want somebody who is servile like a dog, just somebody who is okay with submitting to my leadership out of confidence that I know better. (Does that sound a tad arrogant? I'm not trying to sound arrogant, but in my experiences, I've come to sort of realize I know better than most people, male or female. I guess that could be construed as arrogant, but I think it's true)

Wow. This is such a great big load of bs, you must be very proud of it. The sad part is you will probably find a woman willing to be your little robot. Of course, there is always the possibility she will realize her unhappiness and will find a man who treats her as an equal.

1) Thank you for the wishing of luck. :)


2) I don't particularly want somebody who is servile like a dog, just somebody who is okay with submitting to my leadership out of confidence that I know better. (Does that sound a tad arrogant? I'm not trying to sound arrogant, but in my experiences, I've come to sort of realize I know better than most people, male or female. I guess that could be construed as arrogant, but I think it's true)
Your insane, Katganistan is right. Marriage is not about the man calling all the shots. It's about the man and the women compromising. Or finding somthing that works for the both of them. Welcome to the 21st century!

The sad part is you will probably find a woman willing to be your little robot. Of course, there is always the possibility she will realize her unhappiness and will find a man who treats her as an equal.

Oh dear, there are already some women who are willing to renounce equality and to be led by men. www.realwomenca.com

Welcome to the 21st century!


Sorry, I don't like this century, I'm going to hold to the old ways, and be proud about it.

What would you do if your son, aged between 14 and 16, got a girl pregnant?

shout alot :D

Wow. This is such a great big load of bs, you must be very proud of it. The sad part is you will probably find a woman willing to be your little robot. Of course, there is always the possibility she will realize her unhappiness and will find a man who treats her as an equal.


I have two "Case in points"


One: Father's side of the family, my grandfather and grandmother, they do some chores together (he helps her cook sometimes), but she basically listens to him on most all matters. He treats her well, respects the work she does around the house, and how she does the sewing, cooking, cleaning, etc. He is always keen to show his appreciation. They get along well.

Two: Mother's side of the family, my grandfather and grandmother, they never really got along. He always called her, "Woman", told her what to do, when to do it, how to do it, why to do it ("Because I said so, woman.") and he basically had her running around doing everything, and then he'd moan and groan when 1 thing wasn't quite right. I distinctly remember her having to cook, the phone would ring, he'd be 4 feet from it, and would shout, "Woman! Telephone!" and expect her to drop what she was doing (cooking) to answer the phone. Then he'd moan when his dinner wasn't ready on time.


See, I think the ideal is Case One, don't you agree?

Men can be stupid and ignorant as well as women, don't you think?


Well if he doesn't then he is a great fat example of stupidity, bigotry and ignorance right there, so he doesn't have to look far for proof...

Sorry, I don't like this century, I'm going to hold to the old ways, and be proud about it.

OK, your just insane.

1. You want to control who your daughter spends the rest of her life with, AFTER she turns 18, beause you cant get married before then. You know thats illegal right?/
2. Beat your daughter over trival matters, and if she is over 18 because " she didn't bleed for her husband " and you beat her, your ass gets landed in jail.
3. You want to steal your daughters bed sheets to see if she bleed, pervert. Also if the guy is halfway decent in bed, she wont bleed anyway.
4. You think shooting doctors and blowing up clinics is a good idea.
5. You want your women to always listen to you.
6. Think that girls should not be allowed to play sports.

You are insane. It's that simple, go find a nice padded room.

OK, your just insane.

1. You want to control who your daughter spends the rest of her life with, AFTER she turns 18, beause you cant get married before then. You know thats illegal right?/
2. Beat your daughter over trival matters, and if she is over 18 because " she didn't bleed for her husband " and you beat her, your ass gets landed in jail.
3. You want to steal your daughters bed sheets to see if she bleed, pervert. Also if the guy is halfway decent in bed, she wont bleed anyway.
4. You think shooting doctors and blowing up clinics is a good idea.
5. You want your women to always listen to you.
6. Think that girls should not be allowed to play sports.

You are insane. It's that simple, go find a nice padded room.
Thats not insanity. Thats God baby :D.

If my daughter doesn't bleed for her husband on their wedding night, (and I'll be saving the sheets, since the bible says they are to be saved, so nobody can ever say she wasn't a virgin when I let him marry her, but anyway) if she doesn't bleed for him, that means that she lied to me and tricked me throughout her teenage years, and that would warrant a major beating, no questions asked.



I study the bible at least 3 times a week, have read it cover to cover, and I can assure you that nowhere in it does it say to retain soiled sheets. And , according to biblical law (both Mosaic and Christianic), the father no longer has any dealings with the daughter once she is married. She becomes of the people of her husband.

So, please, do not twist Jehovah's words to suit your own purposes.

-Zeo

OK, your just insane.

1. You want to control who your daughter spends the rest of her life with, AFTER she turns 18, beause you cant get married before then. You know thats illegal right?/
2. Beat your daughter over trival matters, and if she is over 18 because " she didn't bleed for her husband " and you beat her, your ass gets landed in jail.
3. You want to steal your daughters bed sheets to see if she bleed, pervert. Also if the guy is halfway decent in bed, she wont bleed anyway.
4. You think shooting doctors and blowing up clinics is a good idea.
5. You want your women to always listen to you.
6. Think that girls should not be allowed to play sports.

You are insane. It's that simple, go find a nice padded room.


1) In some states, girls can get married at 14. I might just have to move to a nation where arranged marriages are allowed.

2) I won't get thrown in jail because she'd respect my right to discipline (not beat), but discipline her. And she'd respect her mother's right to discipline her as well. You only discipline a child if they need it.

3) I'm not a pervert, the bible says to hold onto the sheets as proof of the daughter's virtue and the fact she was a virgin on her wedding night. So none can question it. Anyway, if the guy knows anything about the bible, and cares what God wants, he'll see to it she bleeds for him. (If she cares about the bible too, she'll bleed for him). Anyway, it's just a one-time thing, get on with it and get it over with.

4) No, I think doctors of death and clinics of genocide, have no right to exist. Doctors that heal, and clinics that save lives, ought to be encouraged.

5) Ideally, but not always. Men can, and often are, wrong.

6) So what, why does this make me insane?


I don't think I'm insane, just greatly different than you, and you can't stand it.

Thats not insanity. Thats God baby :D.

No, thats Calvinsim....i think the vast majority of Christians have the ability to move with the times...Katganistan for example...and half the other chrisitans on this board too...i'm not one before you ask...blind faith bothers me somewhat...

Thanks, I wasn't sure if I had heard it correctly to google it, got it though.

Theological question, so much stock is attributed to the KJV bible but there had been so many edits prior to that how can he really say that this interpretation is the pentultimate one? I'm think specifically of the sanitizing of the Council of Nicea in 32 AD.

The KJV of the bible actually only uses 4 translations from scrolls that were not originals. It is now commonly known that it is much more the word of King James, than the word of Jehovah. Prior to the time of King James, the true name of the Almighty was mentioned over 1000 times within the scrolls containing His word. When King James got ahold of it, it was reduced to a mere 4 times.

And VE, you again use simple portions of passages to create your point (which is prophesied within the bible itself, that men will turn from Jehovah and use only portions of his word to convince those of weak mind and spirit to believe what they wish for them to believe, instead of allowing them to simply read the Word in it's entirety).

--Zeo

I study the bible at least 3 times a week, have read it cover to cover, and I can assure you that nowhere in it does it say to retain soiled sheets. And , according to biblical law (both Mosaic and Christianic), the father no longer has any dealings with the daughter once she is married. She becomes of the people of her husband.

So, please, do not twist Jehovah's words to suit your own purposes.

-Zeo



Deuteronomy 22:13-22 (Amplified Bible)

13If any man takes a wife and goes in to her, and then scorns her
14And charges her with shameful things and gives her an evil reputation, and says, I took this woman, but when I came to her, I did not find in her the tokens of a virgin, my words here: tokens=sheets
15Then the father of the young woman, and her mother, shall get and bring out the tokens of her virginity to the elders of the city at the gate.
16And her father shall say to the elders, I gave my daughter to this man as wife, but he hates and spurns her;
17And behold, he has made shameful charges against her, saying, I found not in your daughter the evidences of her virginity. And yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the garment before the elders of the city,
18And the elders of that city shall take the man and rebuke and whip him.
19And they shall fine him 100 shekels of silver and give them to the father of the young woman, because he has brought an evil name upon a virgin of Israel. And she shall be his wife; he may not divorce her all his days.
20But if it is true that the evidences of virginity were not found in the young woman,
21Then they shall bring her to the door of her father's house and the men of her city shall stone her to death, because she has wrought [criminal] folly in Israel by playing the harlot in her father's house. So you shall put away the evil from among you.
22If a man is found lying with another man's wife, they shall both die, the man who lay with the woman and the woman. So you shall purge the evil from Israel.



Deuteronomy 22:13-22 (New International Version)

13 If a man takes a wife and, after lying with her, dislikes her
14 and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, "I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,"
15 then the girl's father and mother shall bring proof that she was a virgin to the town elders at the gate.
16 The girl's father will say to the elders, "I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her.
17 Now he has slandered her and said, 'I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.' But here is the proof of my daughter's virginity." Then her parents shall display the cloth before the elders of the town,
18 and the elders shall take the man and punish him.
19 They shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver and give them to the girl's father, because this man has given an Israelite virgin a bad name. She shall continue to be his wife; he must not divorce her as long as he lives.
20 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found,
21 she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you.
22 If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel.

buy lots and lots of baby food

The KJV of the bible actually only uses 4 translations from scrolls that were not originals. It is now commonly known that it is much more the word of King James, than the word of Jehovah. Prior to the time of King James, the true name of the Almighty was mentioned over 1000 times within the scrolls containing His word. When King James got ahold of it, it was reduced to a mere 4 times.

To me this is part of the problem, there is no definitive interpretation-really there can't be since the primary doc are lost. I can personally see christianity as a Pauline heresy, a viewpoint that does drive my priest a little nuts:)

Deuteronomy 22:13-22 (Amplified Bible)

What the hell is the amplified bible? They shout it or put it through an amp or something?



EDIT: yes i know what it is just a damn stupid name thats all...

What would you do if your son, aged between 14 and 16, got a girl pregnant?

Freak out...

Freak out....

Freak out some more....

Then support the kid ^^

To me this is part of the problem, there is no definitive interpretation-really there can't be since the primary doc are lost. I can personally see christianity as a Pauline heresy, a viewpoint that does drive my priest a little nuts:)

When i used to go to church i asked my minister why he was sinning by wearing two different sorts of cloth (can't remember chapter and verse but...) I was only 8 and my mum never took me again LOL!

When i used to go to church i asked my minister why he was sinning by wearing two different sorts of cloth (can't remember chapter and verse but...) I was only 8 and my mum never took me again LOL!


When I was very young I went to mass with my grandmother and as the communion wine was being delivered I asked why one needed booze to see god. Poor woman was mortified. :)

When i used to go to church i asked my minister why he was sinning by wearing two different sorts of cloth (can't remember chapter and verse but...) I was only 8 and my mum never took me again LOL!


Deut 22:11

When i used to go to church i asked my minister why he was sinning by wearing two different sorts of cloth (can't remember chapter and verse but...) I was only 8 and my mum never took me again LOL!


My uncle and mother took me to a Methodist church once, I wanted to stand up and shout, "Why is there a woman preacher! Let your women keep silence in the churches for it is not premitted unto them to speak! Read 1st Corinthians 14:33-38 and know that you are violating the laws of God!"

My uncle and mother took me to a Methodist church once, I wanted to stand up and shout, "Why is there a woman preacher! Let your women keep silence in the churches for it is not premitted unto them to speak! Read 1st Corinthians 14:33-38 and know that you are violating the laws of God!"

Yeah mine was a methodist too, went to baptist and catholic churches too...by then it was too late, and now this little sheep is gonna burn in hell...of course that would depend on it existing, which in my belief it really doesn't but hey...

My uncle and mother took me to a Methodist church once, I wanted to stand up and shout, "Why is there a woman preacher! Let your women keep silence in the churches for it is not premitted unto them to speak! Read 1st Corinthians 14:33-38 and know that you are violating the laws of God!"

You hate your mother, don't you?

Here, lie down. Let's talk.

http://www.artnet.com/magazine/features/jsaltz/Images/saltz4-2-4.jpg

You hate your mother, don't you?

Here, lie down. Let's talk.

http://www.artnet.com/magazine/features/jsaltz/Images/saltz4-2-4.jpg


Very funny (rolls eyes)

I don't need to talk about it, at least I don't want to talk about it, and particularly not to you. Anyway, there is nothing to talk about.

Anyway, there is nothing to talk about.

Classic denial.

I think first we should address your morbid fear of vaginas.

I think first we should address your morbid fear of vaginas.

-deleted-

EDIT: Sorry that was probably a bit harsh.

Classic denial.

I think first we should address your morbid fear of vaginas.

I don't have a morbid fear of female genitalia; please don't suggest that I do.

Just because I'm not a whore mongering fornicator, and I believe sex is best kept inside of marriage, doesn't mean anything is wrong with me.

You know, some folks called me gay for refusing to fornicate, but hey, they can ruin their lives with promiscuity if they want, they'll have to deal with the emotional repercussions later, I won't have to do so because I don't do what they do.

No, as long as they bleed on the wedding night he is cool with them...

Bleeding vaginas = bleeding femininity = bleeding woman = cigar (or something).

Bleeding vaginas = bleeding femininity = bleeding woman = cigar (or something).


Are you on drugs? Honestly, what does any of that have to do with any of the other parts?

So I smoke cigars, that doesn't mean anything...