NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4310087.stm

"Germany was able to seek his extradition on the grounds that he was running a web site denying the existence of the Holocaust."

...

"Denying the Holocaust is a crime in Germany, where Zundel's theories could be easily accessed and read through the Internet."

"Last week, a Federal Court judge ruled the his anti-Semitic and hatred-inciting activities were "not only a threat to Canada's national security, but also a threat to the international community of nations".

"It took Canadian authorities two years to establish whether Zundel, who authored a book called "The Hitler we loved and why", posed a security threat."

Now, white supremists are at the bottom of my list of those that deserve pity. But really, Canada is supposedly the "nice" nation that'll keep anyone seeking to flee America away from the Americans (see: Saddam Hussein and the two soldiers that fleed Iraq), but they kicked this guy out of their country under the grounds that he operated a website and authored a racist book?

Seriously, did the website have step-by-step instructions on how to kill non-whites on the site? I didn't read that in the article, did you?

And don't get me started on this "uber-wtf" law that Germany has where you cannot even deny the Holocaust....

See? I can be a bitch too about a news article. :D I simply want answers as to why this happened, and how. Don't consider me someone who will hold firm to the ground and deny every post from here on out.

Bottom-feeder pond-scum. But still has the right to let the world know how ignorant he is.

Are those US protesters protesting against CANADA?! LOL, I love it.

I never knew Germany to have true freedom of speech and expression. Even so they like to think they are democratic. Although it does appear that they deported him on a technicality. That wasnt there obvious reason to do it. I sure hope they are looking out for terrorist like they did with this guy. God knows that no terrorist would want to slip into the US from Canada.

well, what he did was illegal, don't blame the police, blame the state. Our government felt obligate to comply and thus, now he's going back to Germany. Blame Germany for there anti-nazi laws and not Canada.

well, what he did was illegal, don't blame the police, blame the state. Our government felt obligate to comply and thus, now he's going back to Germany. Blame Germany for there anti-nazi laws and not Canada.
No, what he did was not illegal, at least not under any decent law system allowing free speech. Your government decided he was a security risk based on his speech, and deported him on that basis, not based on Germany's law. Germany does not dictate Canadian law.

I've been following Zundel's case every since he was locked up in Canada back in 2003. I've been to the protests, and one of my friends was able to visit him. Ernst and his wife have been through so much, and they do not deserve it. They've had their house burned down twice, and why? Because he writes books that some people dont like. Isnt that what freedom of expression is all about? Freedom of speech, and freedom to ignore people you dont agree with. Isnt it the ability to express ones self without fear of punishment?

Canada is supposed to be the most free nation, yet they have just set a precedent in the justice system. While the Jews and Liberals may see Zundels deportation as progress, it is really one step closer to Germany in the 1930s. In fact, Germany today is almost identical to how it was 70 years ago. There are books, symbols, and words that are illegal. They outlaw speech, and lock up anyone who goes against the stance of the government. Hello? Hasnt anyone heard of the Gestapo???

Whats worse is that comapanies like Google are bending to the will of the Jews. Berlin is home to the fastest-growing Jewsih community in the world. When you combine the rising wave of global anti-Semitism with people's apathy towards their freedoms, we are setting ourselves up for the Fourth Reich......and I am loving every minute of it.

We will never forget about Ernst Zundel, or what he has done for us. But his sacrifice is paving the way for our dreams.

Blame (Someone else) for there (Whatever) and not Canada.

Thats the party line up there isnt it?

Odd. Keith Henson was granted refugee status in Canada for something very similar. He was was convicted of much worse than Holocaust denial in the US, but it was essentially a freedom of speech issue.

I've been following Zundel's case every since he was locked up in Canada back in 2003. I've been to the protests, and one of my friends was able to visit him. Ernst and his wife have been through so much, and they do not deserve it. They've had their house burned down twice, and why? Because he writes books that some people dont like. Isnt that what freedom of expression is all about? Freedom of speech, and freedom to ignore people you dont agree with. Isnt it the ability to express ones self without fear of punishment?
This is where I think this guy has some logical thoughts.

Canada is supposed to be the most free nation, yet they have just set a precedent in the justice system. While the Jews and Liberals may see Zundels deportation as progress, it is really one step closer to Germany in the 1930s. In fact, Germany today is almost identical to how it was 70 years ago. There are books, symbols, and words that are illegal. They outlaw speech, and lock up anyone who goes against the stance of the government. Hello? Hasnt anyone heard of the Gestapo???
This is where he sounds pretty opinionated, where I diagree with a lot, if not most of them.

Whats worse is that comapanies like Google are bending to the will of the Jews.
Here's where I began laughing


we are setting ourselves up for the Fourth Reich......and I am loving every minute of it.Here's where I completely cracked up and lost any future respect for this person.

We will never forget about Ernst Zundel, or what he has done for us. But his sacrifice is paving the way for our dreams.Here's where I ask that he remember to take his hate out the door whenever he feels like leaving.




This isn't a complete matter of hate, prejuidice, and opinions. It's about an unfair law and an unfair action taken by Canada, a nation that I expected better from.

Here's where I began laughing
Go ahead, laugh it up. Its all fun and games until you find yourself in a prison cell for expressing an opinion contrary to the governments.

No, what he did was not illegal, at least not under any decent law system allowing free speech. Your government decided he was a security risk based on his speech, and deported him on that basis, not based on Germany's law. Germany does not dictate Canadian law.

No, but the Germans asked us to deport him and based on the evidence, Immigration decided they would. Germany wants him and we gave him to them.

Go ahead, laugh it up. Its all fun and games until you find yourself in a prison cell for expressing an opinion contrary to the governments.

Coming from a guy talking about the White Nationalist movement B.S. for some reason, i'm not worried.

well, what he did was illegal, don't blame the police, blame the state. Our government felt obligate to comply and thus, now he's going back to Germany. Blame Germany for there anti-nazi laws and not Canada.

Is Holocaust denial a crime in Canada?

That was the grounds for the charges in Germany. It is my understanding that most extradition treaties usually stipulate that the crime the person is being extradited for is a crime in both countries.

Coming from a guy talking about the White Nationalist movement B.S. for some reason, i'm not worried.
You dont realize the importance of this. You arent bothered now because you find yourself on the same side of the goverment. But what about when a new government comes in with these laws already secured? You obviously have no understanding of how Nazi Germany came to be.

Is Holocaust denial a crime in Canada?

That was the grounds for the charges in Germany. It is my understanding that most extradition treaties usually stipulate that the crime the person is being extradited for is a crime in both countries.

Not that i'm aware of. I've never heard that before that both countries have to have the same criminal laws and find the person guilty of that crime. Alas, I have been wrong before.

You dont realize the importance of this. You arent bothered now because you find yourself on the same side of the goverment. But what about when a new government comes in with these laws already secured? You obviously have no understanding of how Nazi Germany came to be.

these "laws"? um what exactly do you mean by that.

*shudders thinking of the possible response will be.

For the record: Holocaust denial is not a crime in Canada

Instead, they charge people with things like:
- inciting hatred
- making statements known to be false

And when they run out of things to charge people with, they'll just make up laws......just as they did for the Nuremberg Trials.

Not that i'm aware of. I've never heard that before that both countries have to have the same criminal laws and find the person guilty of that crime. Alas, I have been wrong before.


You know I believe this is correct in most international cases. Both countries need to have a punishment equal for what the person is being extradited.

There was an arson case in the area I live in. The person couldnt be extradited from Brasil. Because Brasil didnt have a law against what the particular charges were. There has to be some link of authority to this kind of thing.

For the record: Holocaust denial is not a crime in Canada

Instead, they charge people with things like:
- inciting hatred
- making statements known to be false

And when they run out of things to charge people with, they'll just make up laws......just as they did for the Nuremberg Trials.

So uh, we should allow people to encourage violent acts then? Or how about publically lying? For some reason, I think you've lost all reasoning and rational thought years ago didn't you. Or lemme guess, you awoke from the Jews controlling your mind, and now you magically know the truth where as the rest of us are ignorants folls? did I get that right?

these "laws"? um what exactly do you mean by that.

By deporting Zundel for his opinions, the freedoms of every Canadian is now at stake. Right now, you have a Liberal goverment in power who disagree with Zundel. But what if the Conservatives win the next election and they decide to lock up everyone who is pro-choice? The precedent has already been set. Zundel has officially been silenced. Is that what you want?....a country that "silences" people the government dislikes?

You know I believe this is correct in most international cases. Both countries need to have a punishment equal for what the person is being extradited.

There was an arson case in the area I live in. The person couldnt be extradited from Brasil. Because Brasil didnt have a law against what the particular charges were. There has to be some link of authority to this kind of thing.

Hmm, that's intersting, cause I've never heard that before, I always thought that it was just a request by the country that wants the criminal and its up to the country that the criminal currently resides whether or not to extradite him.

So uh, we should allow people to encourage violent acts then? Or how about publically lying?
Thats what freedom of expression is all about.

i actually kinda agree here. i could understand if he was full-on pro-active in causing trouble, but by the sounds he jus wrote a few things. i myself am against nazis, not because of what they did to the jews but because of what they did to germany. maybe the authorities should have taken this into account first:

the right to be heard doesnt automatically give you the right to be taken seriously

By deporting Zundel for his opinions, the freedoms of every Canadian is now at stake. Right now, you have a Liberal goverment in power who disagree with Zundel. But what if the Conservatives win the next election and they decide to lock up everyone who is pro-choice? The precedent has already been set. Zundel has officially been silenced. Is that what you want?....a country that "silences" people the government dislikes?

So, lemme get your observation correct, you think that Canada is at risk of having Canadians who disagree with the government deported, is that the basic argument?

the right to be heard doesnt automatically give you the right to be taken seriously
Finally! A voice of reason.

Canada claims that Zundel is a "threat to national security."
How the hell is a senior citizen with NO criminal record that writes books a threat?

You dont realize the importance of this. You arent bothered now because you find yourself on the same side of the goverment. But what about when a new government comes in with these laws already secured? You obviously have no understanding of how Nazi Germany came to be.

Hey waaaaaaait a minute...

Being a person who freely admits that they despise any kind of white supremacy movement and therefore has chosen to not particularly pay them any attention, I realise my post may appear ignorant...

But I thought Nazi Germany was the "perfect world" for supremacists, with Hitler being the poster boy?

The scary part is, I find myself more in agreement with the white supremecist than anyone else. If one part of speech is banned, then all of speech is threatened. First it's holocaust denial, then it's evolution denial. Or in the case of the Islamic states, denial of Islam. We were just talking about this last week in my PoliSci class. The US is peculiar in the world in that it allows just about everything to be said, and it only draws the line when it moves from speech to action, specifically violent action. What this guy did was stupid, but he shouldn't be prosecuted for it.

Hmm, that's intersting, cause I've never heard that before, I always thought that it was just a request by the country that wants the criminal and its up to the country that the criminal currently resides whether or not to extradite him.

Hell maybe I am wrong. I know that between a non-democratic law country it isnt a problem. But between two democratic law based countries I would be sure that this is case. But alas I dont have proof like I normally would have to back this claim up. To tired to google for exact text somewhere.

So, lemme get your observation correct, you think that Canada is at risk of having Canadians who disagree with the government deported, is that the basic argument?

No, not deported. You cant ship people off to other countries unless they were born there.

I'm saying that now ALL Canadians are at risk of being silenced.
By "silenced," includes:
- being deported
- being thrown in prison
- "disappearing"
- dying under "mysterious" circumstances

The scary part is, I find myself more in agreement with the white supremecist than anyone else. If one part of speech is banned, then all of speech is threatened. First it's holocaust denial, then it's evolution denial. Or in the case of the Islamic states, denial of Islam. We were just talking about this last week in my PoliSci class. The US is peculiar in the world in that it allows just about everything to be said, and it only draws the line when it moves from speech to action, specifically violent action. What this guy did was stupid, but he shouldn't be prosecuted for it.

I do also find myself oddly on the side of the white supremecists point of freedom of speech.

Yes I agree the US is peculiar in this way. Very glad it is.

The scary part is, I find myself more in agreement with the white supremecist
I am not a white supremist, I am a White Nationalist. There is a difference.

I am not a white supremist, I am a White Nationalist. There is a difference.

I guess I should have known this.

No, not deported. You cant ship people off to other countries unless they were born there.

I'm saying that now ALL Canadians are at risk of being silenced.
By "silenced," includes:
- being deported
- being thrown in prison
- "disappearing"
- dying under "mysterious" circumstances

So, if that were really that case, why is it, that the Seperatists in Quebec are allowed to speak freely and openly? And this has gone on for years. Or are they apart of the the worldwide Jewish conspiracy too. Them and the freemasons are planning some bad stuff I hear, maybe you should go check it out and report back this board for everyone.

I am not a white supremist, I am a White Nationalist. There is a difference.

Okay, I'll bite... is there a quick way to explain the difference?

I guess I should have known this.
People often group us all as one, but there are different distinctions:
- White Supremists
- White Nationalists
- Skinheads/Neo-Nazis

I am not a white supremist, I am a White Nationalist. There is a difference.

and what exactly is the difference?

So, if that were really that case, why is it, that the Seperatists in Quebec are allowed to speak freely and openly? And this has gone on for years. Or are they apart of the the worldwide Jewish conspiracy too. Them and the freemasons are planning some bad stuff I hear, maybe you should go check it out and report back this board for everyone.

Dont forget the Skull and Crossbones club!

So, if that were really that case, why is it, that the Seperatists in Quebec are allowed to speak freely and openly? And this has gone on for years. Or are they apart of the the worldwide Jewish conspiracy too. Them and the freemasons are planning some bad stuff I hear, maybe you should go check it out and report back this board for everyone.

The Seperatists in Quebec are a staple in Canada, they havent been silenced yet and they never should. You are forgetting that it was the French who began settling in Canada first. Hence why French is spoken from Newfoundland all the way in to the St. Lawerence.

The Seperatists in Quebec are a staple in Canada, they havent been silenced yet and they never should. You are forgetting that it was the French who began settling in Canada first. Hence why French is spoken from Newfoundland all the way in to the St. Lawerence.


I guess you forget that French is spoken throughout the country not just down east. So, the French are apart of the conspiracy?

Dont forget the Skull and Crossbones club!
And the Club of Rome, and the CFR, and the Bilderbergs and Majestic-12 and the MK projects and Opus Dei and the Trilateral Commission and and and and...

Yeah, I bet they're all in league wit hthe Canadians!!!

I guess you forget that French is spoken throughout the country not just down east. So, the French are apart of the conspiracy?

French is not widely spoken in Canada. Ask a French person. They have a hard enough time trying to keep their language within the government.

What conspiracy?

I must concur with The Hitler Jugend here on the free speech issue. As much as I dislike the opinion being expressed, there's no reason for it to be silenced.

French is not widely spoken in Canada. Ask a French person. They have a hard enough time trying to keep their language within the government.

What conspiracy?

Actually French is spoken by 33% of the population.

Oh you know what conspiracy.

Hmm, that's intersting, cause I've never heard that before, I always thought that it was just a request by the country that wants the criminal and its up to the country that the criminal currently resides whether or not to extradite him.

Nope. These things come under treatries.

Here's an example of the wording from from Treaty on Extradition between the Government of Canada and the Government of the United States (it's actually the protocols amending the treaty, but it's the first one I came up with):

(1) Extradition shall be granted for conduct which constitutes an offense punishable by the laws of both Contracting Parties by imprisonment or other form of detention for a term exceeding one year or any greater punishment.

(2) An offense is extraditable notwithstanding

(i) that conduct such as interstate transportation or use of the mails or of other facilities affecting interstate or foreign commerce, required for the purpose of establishing jurisdiction, forms part of the offense in the United States, or
(ii) that it relates to taxation or revenue or is one of a purely fiscal character."

http://www.lexum.umontreal.ca/ca_us/en/cts.1991.37.en.html

Actually French is spoken by 33% of the population.

Oh you know what conspiracy.

French is not spoken by 33% of your country. Hell, 33% of Canada's population is foreign-born. Dont make me check the Statistics Canada 2001 Census to prove you wrong.

And no, I dont know what conspiracy you are referring to.

Hell maybe I am wrong. I know that between a non-democratic law country it isnt a problem. But between two democratic law based countries I would be sure that this is case. But alas I dont have proof like I normally would have to back this claim up. To tired to google for exact text somewhere.

See my post above. ;)

First off I’d like to say the Mr. Zundel was a German born citizen and possessed no Canadian citizenship. At the same time due to precedent in a superior court case in B.C. we decided, through the judicial process, that anyone we deign to let live in our country is granted the same protection as a Canadian citizen.

This man is a disgusting dreck and while he deserves everything he gets we can’t do what we are doing. Zundel’s guaranteed the freedom of expression and for better or worse this falls under it. My government might be pressured politically to offer this man up to his home country but it is more than obvious to me that this disgusting example of Aryan trash fled his country due to fear of persecution and since we took him in we can’t turn our backs on him.

Canada was big on the anti-Semitic policies in the past and allowing Zundel in seems to be an uncomfortable reminder that we were none to found of the Jews either. I believe our exact response was “None is too many”

Canada does not have a clean slate in the area of human rights to be sure but this seems to be the case of trying two wrongs to make a right. Canada should’ve barred Zundel from entry in 2003 when the US deported him back here.

Ugh. I hate the fact that this man is allowed to speak but if I expect people to put up with what I say when, admittedly, it borders on anti-religious to the point of derision then how can I endorse his forcible silencing?

this disgusting example of Aryan trash fled his country due to fear of persecution and since we took him in we can’t turn our backs on him.
Can we please refrain from flaming?

French is not spoken by 33% of your country. Hell, 33% of Canada's population is foreign-born. Dont make me check the Statistics Canada 2001 Census to prove you wrong.

And no, I dont know what conspiracy you are referring to.

6.7 million Canadians out of 29.6 million Canadians is what i'm told here.

http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census01/products/highlight/LanguageComposition/Page.cfm?Lang=E&Geo=PR&View=1a&Table=1a&StartRec=1&Sort=2&B1=Counts&B2=Both

About a 25% I guess, not a third, but still, a fairly noticeable minority.

Canada (Mother Tongue)
English: 17,572,170
French: 6,741,955
English and French: 122,660
Other: 5,202,240
Total: 29,639,035

About a 25% I guess, not a third, but still, a fairly noticeable minority.
25% isnt bad, but like I said, its no 1/3 of the country.

Again I ask, what conspiracy?

25% isnt bad, but like I said, its no 1/3 of the country.

Again I ask, what conspiracy?

Oh that crazy conspiracy that you guys are always putting forward, about the jews, free masons, UFOs, the communists, hobbits, scientology you know that one.

Well considering you never gave a number, I'd say I did much better than you.

Oh that crazy conspiracy that you guys are always putting forward, about the jews, free masons, UFOs, the communists, hobbits, scientology you know that one.

This is all news to me. Are these different "conspiracies?" Or it is all one big one?

Whats the conspiracy about hobbits? Anyone else heard of this one? lol

Can we please refrain from flaming?

I am flaming a person that is currently in prison and has no way of viewing this. I will try to tone it down but none of my comments were directed at you with a spiteful tone. No matter how much you might like this man I consider him as stated above.

As for white nationalism vs supremacy am I to understand that it’s more the advocacy of the ‘lawful’ dismantling of the multicultural society and a restructuring of foreign and immigration policy. Also some mention of taking the banks out of the hands of what is perceived as the ‘Jewish influence’.

Oh that crazy conspiracy that you guys are always putting forward, about the jews, free masons, UFOs, the communists, hobbits, scientology you know that one.

Well considering you never gave a number, I'd say I did much better than you.

As much as I dislike HJ's political views. There is no need to see him as part of a collective.

He has already point that the "you guys" you refer to are not a homogenous lump.

Actually the reasion he went back to Germany was because he moved to canada, then moved to america, was arrested for illegal immigration there and sent back to canada, he had been away from canada too long and didn't renews some immigration papers so we sent him back were he innitally came from...germany. The question is if he should have refugee status, but we couldn't find it in our hearts to give scum like that protection under our flag.

This was just a case of illegal immigration and deportation to canada.

Let me paint you a picture: Syrian militant leader commits numerous crimes in Syria, then flees to the US and gains resident status. While in America, rather than starting a new life and behaving himself, he instead sets up a militia training center in Nebraska and operates a website proclaiming hatred of American values and advocating rebellion. Syria eventually finds out where he is living, and asks America to extradite him. What do you think the authorities will do? They have the option of either legally washing their hands of him and shipping him back whence he came, or they can keep him in America and spend a whack of tax dollars surveilling him forever.

Inciting hatred is a crime in Canada. Canada did not silence Zundel for this, though they probably could have. But when the opportunity came to respond to Germany's request, Immigration decided it would be in Canada's best interest to take advantage of that request.

Oh, and slippery slope arguments are patently absurd. The only precedent that has been set here is that for once in its history, Canada is finally not allowing its immigration policies to remain the laughingstock of the world by allowing foreign criminals to take advantage of its lenient requirements and then meekly supporting their ongoing anti-social and/or criminal behaviours. You want to come to Canada and enjoy all it has to offer? Then play nice, and don't bring your hatred and old-world disputes to our country, or we will ship you right back where you came from. We elected our representatives in free elections, in a multi-party (read: more than just two) system, and those representatives enact our laws. If we choose to elect Conservatives next time, the laws they enact must still pass in Parliament. True democracy.

Intense mistrust of the government is not a big issue for Canadians and Europeans like it is for Americans and third-world countries. We do not fear our government will someday sneak up on us and take away all our freedoms and "silence us". Darth Vader is not our Prime Minister. It's actually quite nice not being governed by a military-industrial business consortium. We like it.

Whats the conspiracy about hobbits? Anyone else heard of this one? lol
I bet those nasty hobbitses are in league with the Golden Dawn and the O.T.O. to bring about the apocalypse, spread chaos and fear, immanentize the Eschaton, etc!!!
:eek:
And Tolkien is immortal and is the sinister puppetmaster behind it all!!!!!

"Whats worse is that comapanies like Google are bending to the will of the Jews. Berlin is home to the fastest-growing Jewsih community in the world. When you combine the rising wave of global anti-Semitism with people's apathy towards their freedoms, we are setting ourselves up for the Fourth Reich......and I am loving every minute of it."

So you have nothing to do with this?

Let me paint you a picture: Syrian militant leader commits numerous crimes in Syria, then flees to the US and gains resident status. While in America, rather than starting a new life and behaving himself, he instead sets up a militia training center in Nebraska and operates a website proclaiming hatred of American values and advocating rebellion. Syria eventually finds out where he is living, and asks America to extradite him. What do you think the authorities will do? They have the option of either legally washing their hands of him and shipping him back whence he came, or they can keep him in America and spend a whack of tax dollars surveilling him forever.

Inciting hatred is a crime in Canada. -snip-

In the US at least, he can proclaim his hate for our values as much as he wants, and even advocate revolution. Here in Alaska, we even have a political party aimed at seceding from the US, and it's all legal. The issue is when he sets up that training center and takes action.

I'm not up to speed on what is going on here, but it sounds like all he did was write some books and be vocal. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Even the KKK gets that protection here. As long as they keep away from the lynchings, they can do whatever they want. Why would Canada feel any different?

He didn't get deported for being vocal, he got deported for not being here legally and since he was a pain in the butt, why should we go out of our way to keep him? We were not obligated to do so.

The KKK would not receive protection in Canada. While you may argue "there's absolutely nothing wrong with that", you can only speak from your own country's viewpoint. In Canada, we have chosen to enact different laws. Our people say "there IS something wrong with that".

He didn't get deported for being vocal, he got deported for not being here legally and since he was a pain in the butt, why should we go out of our way to keep him? We were not obligated to do so.

If he's not there legally anyway, go for it.

The KKK would not receive protection in Canada. While you may argue "there's absolutely nothing wrong with that", you can only speak from your own country's viewpoint. In Canada, we have chosen to enact different laws. Our people say "there IS something wrong with that".

But what is to stop someone from outlawing other kinds of speech then? I object to people calling Christians (such as myself) bigots, but that is still protected speech in America. Why wouldn't it be in Canada? Given what you have said, it is entirely possible for that to be outlawed. Or better yet, has Canada ever enacted any sedition laws? We did so here, and the Supreme Court struck them down because they violated free speech. So long as no one is getting physically attacked, why should it matter what I say?

By deporting Zundel for his opinions, the freedoms of every Canadian is now at stake. Right now, you have a Liberal goverment in power who disagree with Zundel. But what if the Conservatives win the next election and they decide to lock up everyone who is pro-choice? The precedent has already been set. Zundel has officially been silenced. Is that what you want?....a country that "silences" people the government dislikes?

Whoah, whoah. Turn your paranoia meter down to 'simmer'. What you're suggesting is nonsensical bullshit. I might not harbour any love or admiration for Stephen Harper or his Conservative party, but what you're supposing is hardly the behaviour one would expect from a sane and rational man, as I fully expect Mr. Harper to be.

It is perhaps the sort of behaviour one might imagine of the mentally unhinged, or that one who is mentally unhinged might imagine. I choose the latter.

The KKK would not receive protection in Canada. While you may argue "there's absolutely nothing wrong with that", you can only speak from your own country's viewpoint. In Canada, we have chosen to enact different laws. Our people say "there IS something wrong with that".

Just some interesting info, most nations consider the KKK to be an official TERRORIST group.

There's a damn good reason why Holocaust denial is a crime in Germany. And every reasonable country (i.e. Canada) should support that. :)

As for "stomping out civil freedoms", after all it were the Nazis which did exactly that, and I think a democratic country has the right to defend itself against the enemies of democracy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4310087.stm

"Germany was able to seek his extradition on the grounds that he was running a web site denying the existence of the Holocaust."

...

"Denying the Holocaust is a crime in Germany, where Zundel's theories could be easily accessed and read through the Internet."

"Last week, a Federal Court judge ruled the his anti-Semitic and hatred-inciting activities were "not only a threat to Canada's national security, but also a threat to the international community of nations".

"It took Canadian authorities two years to establish whether Zundel, who authored a book called "The Hitler we loved and why", posed a security threat."

Now, white supremists are at the bottom of my list of those that deserve pity. But really, Canada is supposedly the "nice" nation that'll keep anyone seeking to flee America away from the Americans (see: Saddam Hussein and the two soldiers that fleed Iraq), but they kicked this guy out of their country under the grounds that he operated a website and authored a racist book?

Seriously, did the website have step-by-step instructions on how to kill non-whites on the site? I didn't read that in the article, did you?

And don't get me started on this "uber-wtf" law that Germany has where you cannot even deny the Holocaust....

See? I can be a bitch too about a news article. :D I simply want answers as to why this happened, and how. Don't consider me someone who will hold firm to the ground and deny every post from here on out.

Nice freakin country. Just outlaw any unpopular views. Never mind trying to become tolerant, which is something Canadians and Germans seem to accuse Americans of quite a bit. I can smell the hypocracy from this side of the pond. :rolleyes:

to a certain extent, i think this is being blown out of proportion, like the media usually does. this is one case, and as is stated, he was probably deported for immigration reasons more than anything else. as for the denial of holocaust thing, i cant blame germany. they have taken so much crap, ever since 1871 when they defeated france, and especially after world war 2 due to the nazis, that the nation has a lot of shame to live with. i have heard of german tourists going to other countries and being treated like shit cause of WWII. if it was any other country that it happened with, it would be the same. hell, japan still has the WWII stigma hanging over it, and even maintains a reduced force that it rarely deploys over the issue. while one country can preach about freedoms and such, they should also recognise the fact that other countries are free to set their own laws and guidlines

Goodbye dear Ernst......you will be sorely missed......NOT!!!

I'm not saying that Canada necessarily did the right thing to extradite Zundel, but we do have an extradition treaty with Germany, and it's not like they're going to execute him or anything.

The US had the opportunity to make the decision about what to do about Zundel but they booted him to Canada for "immigration issues" (and he's not even a Canadian citizen). So he was a hot potato to US authorities too.

Face it, no one but the Germans actually wanted to have him around.

In the US at least, he can proclaim his hate for our values as much as he wants, and even advocate revolution. Here in Alaska, we even have a political party aimed at seceding from the US, and it's all legal.

<cough> Heard of the Bloc Quebecois, have you? In Canada, you can talk about separation and diss the government all you like. We do, however, take exception to hate speech.

If the US is so supportive of his right to free speech, why wouldn't the authorities allow him to immigrate to the US when he applied?

bump

I have an idea:

When a US deserter runs off to Canada, instead of trying to extradite them to the US for desertion - as per international law which Canada feels it can just ignore as suits it - we should instead accuse them of holocaust denial. Then, hey presto, they will be shipped to Germany and incarcerated for five years, which is probably more than they would have got for desertion here.

here we go, the contradictions arise. canada believe him to be a security risk, so decided to deport him. so, that is their choice. he is a geman citizen, they wanted him, canada has an extridition treaty with them, whats the problem? oh yeah, it is the thing he is being charged with in germany. notice that the only ones really bitching about this are white supremisist and neo-nazis, of whom deny the holocaust too? that is almost like america denying droping the nukes on hiroshima and nagasaki. but america do aknowledge it, so its about time they stop deluding themselves that things that have been provent to have happened did indeed happen.

I have an idea:

When a US deserter runs off to Canada, instead of trying to extradite them to the US for desertion - as per international law which Canada feels it can just ignore as suits it - we should instead accuse them of holocaust denial. Then, hey presto, they will be shipped to Germany and incarcerated for five years, which is probably more than they would have got for desertion here.
there is a difference between and acusation of someone doing something, and the person actually doing it. anyway, why the hell would someone desert from the US to canada. if it was me, i would find a country that isnt a neighbour to america

there is a difference between and acusation of someone doing something, and the person actually doing it. anyway, why the hell would someone desert from the US to canada. if it was me, i would find a country that isnt a neighbour to america

Well I think you might be missing the story here. He didnt desert from USA to Canada. But I noticed it wouldnt fit in with the slander toward America. I see the reason now.

Thats the party line up there isnt it?

Excuse me?

Finally! A voice of reason.

Canada claims that Zundel is a "threat to national security."
How the hell is a senior citizen with NO criminal record that writes books a threat?

I don't think this was a bad decision. We've had too much anti-Semitism in Canada for the last while and to write racist book and spread potentially harmful comments about an ethnic group is against the Charter of Rights and freendoms.

there is a difference between and acusation of someone doing something, and the person actually doing it. anyway, why the hell would someone desert from the US to canada. if it was me, i would find a country that isnt a neighbour to america

There are actually several notorious deserters from the US army up in Canada right now which the Canadian government of weasels refuses to return, stating that they must first go before an immigration tribunal.

While the Canadian government acknowledges that said individuals are felons under US law, it feels that returning them to the US to face punishment may possibly violate there human rights or something - I don't really understand the reasons for not doing it other than Canada seems to delight in pissing the US off for no good reason, then being smug about it.

All I was pointing out is, it is very two faced of Canada to happily return someone to Germany to face imprisonment for exercising what would be considered by most in the western hemisphere free, albeit misguided, speech when it is perfectly happy to refuse the return of individuals that are clear felons under both nations laws.

So as I said, we should give up trying the legitimate route and just accuse anyone who runs up their of holocaust denial.

There are actually several notorious deserters from the US army up in Canada right now which the Canadian government of weasels refuses to return, stating that they must first go before an immigration tribunal.

While the Canadian government acknowledges that said individuals are felons under US law, it feels that returning them to the US to face punishment may possibly violate there human rights or something - I don't really understand the reasons for not doing it other than Canada seems to delight in pissing the US off for no good reason, then being smug about it.

All I was pointing out is, it is very two faced of Canada to happily return someone to Germany to face imprisonment for exercising what would be considered by most in the western hemisphere free, albeit misguided, speech when it is perfectly happy to refuse the return of individuals that are clear felons under both nations laws.

So as I said, we should give up trying the legitimate route and just accuse anyone who runs up their of holocaust denial.

YEs, damn us for actually following the proscribed due process that goes along with an extradition request. What we SHOULD do is toss our laws in the nearest crapper for these individuals simply because you are in a hurry to give them their slaps on the wrist....

:rolleyes:


That being said, Canada's immigration processess DO need to be streamlined, that I will grant. I can remember the mockery of it that Charls Ng made before we finally sent him to California. But that is not the same issue as tossing out the existing rulebook and ignoring due process in the meantime.

Now if Zundel is any indication, you should have your deserters back sometime next year.....

okay, now there is 2 threads on this issue. apparently, this guy was pro-active in his efforts, not just creating the website and writing pamphletes, but also taking in active part in actions of neo-nazi/white supremicist groups. canada has chosen that he is a threat to national security (apparently harbouring neo-nazis) and have decided to deport him to his country of origin. with those others, who knows, they might have canadian citezenship, where as this guy didnt.

Now if Zundel is any indication, you should have your deserters back sometime next year.....

Actually no. Part of the issue, as you well know, is that the Canadian immigration tribunal is set to adjudicate the issue of whether or not the soldier in question recieved illegal orders and was likely to recieve them again &ct. If this 'proves' to be the case, they have indicated that extradition will not be granted.

Apart from the fact that a Canadian immigration tribunal is a wholly inappropriate forum to adjudicate this issue given the problems of presenting evidence and lack of expertise in the requiste area of law, or that there is no evidence for these illegal orders other than the soldiers own ipse dixit, this seems totally at odds with deporting a holocaust denier to Germany.

If indeed Canada feels justified in possibly not granting deportation in the case of these soldiers, because to do so would place them in jeopardy of receiving punishment for refusing illegal orders and thus returning them is at odds with Canadian notions of justice and rights, then surely the same applies to the possible (virtually certain) punishment a holocaust denier would receive in germany. (Unless holocaust denial is a crime in Canada which I don't think it is).

Frankly, it seems both decisions are politically motivated - one to please the anti-hate speech group, the other to please the anti-war crowd - and before you can have due process you really have to have the seperation of powers. At any rate they are incompatible with each other and smack of hypocracy on the part of the Canadian government.

Sure, let's keep him here. We can set him up in a nice igloo on Victoria Island.

Don't I just make the best bloody topics? :D

I believe this was an immigration case, he was never held in secret, he was never denied due process. He decided to be kept locked up to try and plead his case.. which is a hell of a lot more than the people being held in Gitmo are getting. It was also open to the public.

I believe this was an immigration case, he was never held in secret, he was never denied due process. He decided to be kept locked up to try and plead his case.. which is a hell of a lot more than the people being held in Gitmo are getting. It was also open to the public.
So....

Just because the U.S. goes to nations such as Iraq without true justification, at leat we're not like Imperial Britain where we run around colonizing the world and planting the American flag on every bloody continent?

Great justification. Might've well as said "Yeah...well...LOOK AT THE AMERICANS SOUTH OF THE BORDER! HUH? HUH? WATCHU GOT TO SAY NOW?"

C'mon, provide a better reason than THAT!

and as is typical, a media story being blown out of proportion... this is really becoming a load of BS. the only ones who truly know the entire story here are those involved.

As most people know, Canada like most countries have extradition treaties with most 1st world countries. We did the due process, we afforded him every right to prove his case, he failed to do so, he was sent back to the country where he was wanted. This is like Gitmo? I think not. That is one hell of a huge leap of logic by any standards.

As most people know, Canada like most countries have extradition treaties with most 1st world countries. We did the due process, we afforded him every right to prove his case, he failed to do so, he was sent back to the country where he was wanted. This is like Gitmo? I think not. That is one hell of a huge leap of logic by any standards.
Quit comparing to Guantanamo, leave the U.S. out of the argument. I don't think I mentioned the U.S. at all in my first post.

And if I did, too bad!

snip

Whatever, think what you want, believe as you will. The USA would of done the exact same thing only he would of been afforded less freedoms and chances to prove his case. If it makes you feel better to think Canada is some evil entity of denying people civil rights, go for it. Just don't expect any of us to take you seriously.


I'm done!

If it makes you feel better to think Canada is some evil entity of denying people civil rights, go for it. Just don't expect any of us to take you seriously.


I'm done!
...with reality?

Hello?!!?!?!? BBC.co.uk link right there in the first page!

Zundel, who never managed to obtain Canadian citizenship,
i think those are the keywords there. if anything, he should have been extradited earlier. he isnt a canadian citizen, but that of germany, so why shouldn't he be deported back there?

Actually no. Part of the issue, as you well know, is that the Canadian immigration tribunal is set to adjudicate the issue of whether or not the soldier in question recieved illegal orders and was likely to recieve them again &ct. If this 'proves' to be the case, they have indicated that extradition will not be granted.

Apart from the fact that a Canadian immigration tribunal is a wholly inappropriate forum to adjudicate this issue given the problems of presenting evidence and lack of expertise in the requiste area of law, or that there is no evidence for these illegal orders other than the soldiers own ipse dixit, this seems totally at odds with deporting a holocaust denier to Germany.

If indeed Canada feels justified in possibly not granting deportation in the case of these soldiers, because to do so would place them in jeopardy of receiving punishment for refusing illegal orders and thus returning them is at odds with Canadian notions of justice and rights, then surely the same applies to the possible (virtually certain) punishment a holocaust denier would receive in germany. (Unless holocaust denial is a crime in Canada which I don't think it is).

Frankly, it seems both decisions are politically motivated - one to please the anti-hate speech group, the other to please the anti-war crowd - and before you can have due process you really have to have the seperation of powers. At any rate they are incompatible with each other and smack of hypocracy on the part of the Canadian government.

For starters, the tribunal is required to adjudicate on the defense offered. That is a truism in refugee status hearing everywhere. And while I agree that the immigration board is not neccessarily the best place to come to some of these decisions they are still the place where due process - in both our countries - demand that it happens.

Now, regarding the actual defense offered, you seem to be a bit off. (http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2004/12/08/hinzman041208.html) The defense is not against an illegal order, but is two-fold. First that he should not be required to serve in an illegal war, and second that he does not wish to commit atrcocities against Iraqi civillians, and he brought more than his own word to the table.


Now I can't care to comment on what I feel the odds are of his success with this defense as I am not qualified, however your notion to complain that if the tribunal upheld his defence would mean that they wouldn;t be inclined to deport is laughable. By definition the acceptance of a defense implies that the defense wins the case and so deportation would not occur so naturaly the tribunal would not be inclined to grant the extradition if it rules in the soldier's favour.

Anyway, the ruling is due this month so why not just wait until it comes in before you complain about it. Because in the meantime complaining that the soldier got due process seems rather silly.


Anyway, this is off-topic to the original thread and I don't want to hijack the discussion any further.

Besides, I'm tired.

G'night.

YEs, damn us for actually following the proscribed due process that goes along with an extradition request. What we SHOULD do is toss our laws in the nearest crapper for these individuals simply because you are in a hurry to give them their slaps on the wrist....

:rolleyes:


That being said, Canada's immigration processess DO need to be streamlined, that I will grant. I can remember the mockery of it that Charls Ng made before we finally sent him to California. But that is not the same issue as tossing out the existing rulebook and ignoring due process in the meantime.

Now if Zundel is any indication, you should have your deserters back sometime next year.....

Are those deserters in jail while awaiting their immigration hearings? Are they being held as Zundel was? If they are not, then does THAT not show Canada's duplicity/hypocracy?

Denying the holocaust is not a crime in Canada, while desertion is. Surely that should mean there is more reason to imprison deserters.

The man held meetings with violent Nazi groups. He was a figurehead for his public display of Nazism and rascism. He was arrested and convicted on the premise of a threat to national security. He advocated Nazism, he advocated persecution of Jews and non-whites. Of course many others do too, but he was important, this means he had the influence and power to properly organize attacks against Jewish citizens; I call that a threat to national security.

Of course I'm biased, I hate Nazis, so perhaps my opinion is slightly invalid.

Denying the Holocaust is a crime in Germany
Even as a Jew, I have to admit that's pretty low.

I believe this was an immigration case, he was never held in secret, he was never denied due process. He decided to be kept locked up to try and plead his case.. which is a hell of a lot more than the people being held in Gitmo are getting. It was also open to the public.
Resource please.

Are those deserters in jail while awaiting their immigration hearings? Are they being held as Zundel was? If they are not, then does THAT not show Canada's duplicity/hypocracy?

Denying the holocaust is not a crime in Canada, while desertion is. Surely that should mean there is more reason to imprison deserters.

Not at all. Zundel was, after all, being deemed a threat to Canadian security under the law and so was held accordingly. I am not sure how you equate the security threat of someone who is promoting violence with one who is attempting to avoid violence.

...(parts cut)...
If indeed Canada feels justified in possibly not granting deportation in the case of these soldiers, because to do so would place them in jeopardy of receiving punishment for refusing illegal orders and thus returning them is at odds with Canadian notions of justice and rights, then surely the same applies to the possible (virtually certain) punishment a holocaust denier would receive in germany. (Unless holocaust denial is a crime in Canada which I don't think it is).

There is a difference between the two: the possiblity of the death penalty. We have a longstnding tradition (if not a law) to refuse deportation if the person could face the death penalty. There's no such thing for Zundel.

As soon as the US government said they wouldn't seek the Death Penalty, the process started on the US soldiers refugee status.

Even as a Jew, I have to admit that's pretty low.
Even as a non-Jew, I don't think it is.

As soon as the US government said they wouldn't seek the Death Penalty, the process started on the US soldiers refugee status.

And the Canadian tribubal indicated that it still may grant asylum in any case, for the reasons I outlined above. Anyway you slice it, Canadian courts are acting politically in both cases.

CANADA IS NOT PERFECT.

CANADA IS NOT PERFECT.
Never said it is.
I just object to treating these two cases as if it was the same thing. For one thing, we don't have the same extradition treaty between Germany and between the US. Furthermore, our government deemed the war in Irak an illegal actions and, as such, have to listen to these US soldiers claims as a refugee claims. Zundel wasn't one.

The list of differences go on and on...

You guys are reeaaally coming up short trying to make Canada seem like some sort of totalitarian state, imho. Which is also altogether unsurprising, considering how weak your material is in this case. I'm surprised you aren't suddenly getting up in arms over the harp seal cull as though that were some brand-new thing...

Try again, if you must.

The KKK would not receive protection in Canada. While you may argue "there's absolutely nothing wrong with that", you can only speak from your own country's viewpoint. In Canada, we have chosen to enact different laws. Our people say "there IS something wrong with that".

Once again, I wish we were more like Canada.

Good call on that one. To tolerate the intolerant is a betrayal of tolerance.

Once again, I wish we were more like Canada.

Good call on that one. To tolerate the intolerant is a betrayal of tolerance.

Am I to assume that you believe that holocaust denial should be a crime?

Am I to assume that you believe that holocaust denial should be a crime?

Yes.

Yes.

What about academic freedom?

What about academic freedom?

What about it?

From the Vancouver Province newspaper, March 3rd 2005, A16:

Ernst who?

Re Holocaust Denier Is Returned To Germany (March 2): Ernst Zundel did not come to Canada in 1958; he did not spend two years in a Toronto jail; and he was not deported to Germany -- it never happened. DREW DUNCAN, Ottawa

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4310087.stm

"Germany was able to seek his extradition on the grounds that he was running a web site denying the existence of the Holocaust."

...

"Denying the Holocaust is a crime in Germany, where Zundel's theories could be easily accessed and read through the Internet."

"Last week, a Federal Court judge ruled the his anti-Semitic and hatred-inciting activities were "not only a threat to Canada's national security, but also a threat to the international community of nations".

"It took Canadian authorities two years to establish whether Zundel, who authored a book called "The Hitler we loved and why", posed a security threat."

Now, white supremists are at the bottom of my list of those that deserve pity. But really, Canada is supposedly the "nice" nation that'll keep anyone seeking to flee America away from the Americans (see: Saddam Hussein and the two soldiers that fleed Iraq), but they kicked this guy out of their country under the grounds that he operated a website and authored a racist book?

Seriously, did the website have step-by-step instructions on how to kill non-whites on the site? I didn't read that in the article, did you?

And don't get me started on this "uber-wtf" law that Germany has where you cannot even deny the Holocaust....

See? I can be a bitch too about a news article. :D I simply want answers as to why this happened, and how. Don't consider me someone who will hold firm to the ground and deny every post from here on out.

See, I'm Canadian, and I have no idea why on earth he got deported...no logical reason has come up....it's retarded if they're deporting him just for denying the holocaust...there's got to be more to it..

No, but the Germans asked us to deport him and based on the evidence, Immigration decided they would. Germany wants him and we gave him to them.


oh, is that what happened? I really have to catch up...:P

From the Vancouver Province newspaper, March 3rd 2005, A16:

Ernst who?

Re Holocaust Denier Is Returned To Germany (March 2): Ernst Zundel did not come to Canada in 1958; he did not spend two years in a Toronto jail; and he was not deported to Germany -- it never happened. DREW DUNCAN, Ottawa


huh? I saw the guy on the news....who is this person saying this?

Has any one pointed out that he was not only denying the Holocaust never happened, but was trying to incite violence? I didn't think so...

Has any one pointed out that he was not only denying the Holocaust never happened, but was trying to incite violence? I didn't think so...

What did he do exactly. The BBC article only says that the federal court ruled that his activities induced "hatred".

huh? I saw the guy on the news....who is this person saying this?

....he is a Zundel Denier...it's a joke....get it? It never happened? Nm.

The reason denying the holocaust is illegal in Germany is because it is a form of "Volksverhetzung". The term is hard to translate into English, but legally it refers to insulting behavior towards a racial group. By denying the holocaust the man has clearly overstepped the bounds and made himself guilty of a crime. He's telling the descendants of perhaps six million jews and a few million others that their Grandparents didn't die in a horrible way and that they probably made it up. It's a slap in the face and I'm proud that something like that is illegal in Germany.

We will never forget about Ernst Zundel, or what he has done for us. But his sacrifice is paving the way for our dreams.
I haven't though of Zundel since last time I called him a nazi fuck on Stormfront. When they tried telling me that the Russian mob is realy the Jewish mob. And they showed me his site as proof of it. Boy, where they pissed about me calling his site a nazi one.

The reason denying the holocaust is illegal in Germany is because it is a form of "Volksverhetzung". The term is hard to translate into English, but legally it refers to insulting behavior towards a racial group. By denying the holocaust the man has clearly overstepped the bounds and made himself guilty of a crime. He's telling the descendants of perhaps six million jews and a few million others that their Grandparents didn't die in a horrible way and that they probably made it up. It's a slap in the face and I'm proud that something like that is illegal in Germany.
Unfortunatly these days everything right of center is considerd volksverhetzung.
Green hetze is of course permitted.
To quote our pimp daddy number one:
Deutschland muß von außen eingehegt, und innen durch Zustrom heterogenisiert, quasi "verdünnt" werden."
Joschka Fischer
Schade das nur farbe im beutel war. Grüne drecksau.

Unfortunatly these days everything right of center is considerd volksverhetzung.
Green hetze is of course permitted.
To quote our pimp daddy number one:
Deutschland muß von außen eingehegt, und innen durch Zustrom heterogenisiert, quasi "verdünnt" werden."
Joschka Fischer
Schade das nur farbe im beutel war. Grüne drecksau.
Und was hat Joschka nun mit der Relativierung des Holocausts zu tun?
It sounds like your putting Neo-Nazis on the same level with normal politicians.

The man held meetings with violent Nazi groups. He was a figurehead for his public display of Nazism and rascism. He was arrested and convicted on the premise of a threat to national security. He advocated Nazism, he advocated persecution of Jews and non-whites. Of course many others do too, but he was important, this means he had the influence and power to properly organize attacks against Jewish citizens; I call that a threat to national security.

Of course I'm biased, I hate Nazis, so perhaps my opinion is slightly invalid.

Of course, he's not a nice guy. He has bad opinions that no one likes. If the Canadian or German Government had quietly assasinated him no one woul dhave cared.
Instead, they conspire to violate his God-given right to free speech. He may wear the Swastica, but they are the real Nazis.

Actually, I'm supprised that Holocause denial is a crime in Germany. Whatever happened to "We were on vacation. Poland invited us"? Japan knows how to completly ignore WWII. Germany should learn from them.

Und was hat Joschka nun mit der Relativierung des Holocausts zu tun?
It sounds like your putting Neo-Nazis on the same level with normal politicians.
Joschka hat seine eigenen vorstellungen die durchaus Naziartige züge aufzeigen. Mal abgesehen von dem zitat. Er ist ein grosser befürworter von sklavenarbeit. Sieh visa affäre.
Aber das ist ja in ordnung. Wurde ja schliesslich auch von Paolo Pinkel abgesegnet.

Of course, he's not a nice guy. He has bad opinions that no one likes. If the Canadian or German Government had quietly assasinated him no one woul dhave cared.
Instead, they conspire to violate his God-given right to free speech. He may wear the Swastica, but they are the real Nazis.

Actually, I'm supprised that Holocause denial is a crime in Germany. Whatever happened to "We were on vacation. Poland invited us"? Japan knows how to completly ignore WWII. Germany should learn from them.

Maybe Germany doesn't want to forget.

Joschka hat seine eigenen vorstellungen die durchaus Naziartige züge aufzeigen. Mal abgesehen von dem zitat. Er ist ein grosser befürworter von sklavenarbeit. Sieh visa affäre.
Aber das ist ja in ordnung. Wurde ja schliesslich auch von Paolo Pinkel abgesegnet.
Naja. "Befürworter von Sklavenarbeit"? Das ist schon ziemlich weit aus dem Fenster gelehnt. Hast du auch irgendwelche Ausführungen die diesen Zusammenhang auch ernsthaft belegen?

But really, Canada is supposedly the "nice" nation that'll keep anyone seeking to flee America away from the Americans (see: Saddam Hussein and the two soldiers that fleed Iraq), but they kicked this guy out of their country under the grounds that he operated a website and authored a racist book?
It wasn't that he said it, or how it was published, it was what he said. Canada has anti-hate laws.

Of course, he's not a nice guy. He has bad opinions that no one likes. If the Canadian or German Government had quietly assasinated him no one woul dhave cared.
Instead, they conspire to violate his God-given right to free speech. He may wear the Swastica, but they are the real Nazis.

Actually, I'm supprised that Holocause denial is a crime in Germany. Whatever happened to "We were on vacation. Poland invited us"? Japan knows how to completly ignore WWII. Germany should learn from them.

God grants no rights in our society. The rights you have are the rights the government and the constitution gives. Besides, free speech is regulated differently from one country to another.

Also, that doesn't explain the aiding and abetting terrorists.