NationStates Jolt Archive

Because I forgot many of the major abusers in my last poll, I'll be starting anew with this one.

So who is it? Which nation is the absolute worst when it comes to human rights?

I'd say either Zimbabwe, Sudan, or N. Korea. Followed very closely by Saudi Arabia.

Sudan won the award this year.

China

well then, what will YOU do about it except sit there seething with rage and pity for their governments and their people? what does this accomplish? get out and do something instead of talking about it!

well then, what will YOU do about it except sit there seething with rage and pity for their governments and their people? what does this accomplish? get out and do something instead of talking about it!

Yes, Roach-Busters. Go overthrow all those brutal dictatorships.

Yes, Roach-Busters. Go overthrow all those brutal dictatorships.

I'll try. Might need some help, though. ;)

Any volunteers?

Yes, Roach-Busters. Go overthrow all those brutal dictatorships.

yes...... well, why don't you? go on......

Other - The United States of America.

Because I forgot many of the major abusers in my last poll, I'll be starting anew with this one.

So who is it? Which nation is the absolute worst when it comes to human rights?
Well, define that. Worst in terms of total numbers? Worse in terms of most brutality? Worst in terms of historical totals, or just within a certain time frame? Which human rights are you including in this list to BE abused? (For example, are you working from the UN Declaration of Human Rights or something else?). Are you including human rights abuses committed within the country only, or abuses that occur during wars OUTSIDE the country too?

Other - The United States of America.

Please tell me you're not serious.

Oh yeah...and do you include human rights abuses committed by groups other than the official government, or are these just state-sanctioned abuses (thinking of Peru and the Sendero Luminoso for one)?

Well, define that. Worst in terms of total numbers? Worse in terms of most brutality? Worst in terms of historical totals, or just within a certain time frame? Which human rights are you including in this list to BE abused? (For example, are you working from the UN Declaration of Human Rights or something else?). Are you including human rights abuses committed within the country only, or abuses that occur during wars OUTSIDE the country too?

Whatever you consider to be the worst. Whichever you factor you use to judge how bad a country is, whether it be body count, brutality, etc., take that factor into consideration and vote accordingly.

Oh yeah...and do you include human rights abuses committed by groups other than the official government, or are these just state-sanctioned abuses (thinking of Peru and the Sendero Luminoso for one)?

No, those don't count. But if you think they should, feel free to vote that way.

My vote went to Burma/Myanmar, that country seems to me to have no human rights at all, the army runs the country, and people are dying daily.

Its a tough question. China's is bad, but they are slowly getting better. so North Korea and Turkmenistan.

Other - The United States of America.
I knew some agitator would say this. Prove it! You have all these specious ideas about America .... well, put your money where your big mouth is: prove it! I live in the US and we do not abuse people's civil rights. Period.

Other - The United States of America.

Painful as it is to admit it, the US is NOT the worst human rights abuser. They fund and support a number of the worst culprits, and they're probably in the lower half of the 'lovely people to be incarcerated by' league tables, but there's no point making liberals look silly with over-the-top comments like this.

Other - The United States of America.

how? yes, the US are complete idiots and annoying as hell and a lot of what they do is not all that justified but there are much worse countries on abusing human rights. you just want to be controversal.

Other - The United States of America.

I opened this thread just to win a bet with my friend that someone would put the US. Thanks Europaland!

Although, you're still an idiot.

Whatever you consider to be the worst. Whichever you factor you use to judge how bad a country is, whether it be body count, brutality, etc., take that factor into consideration and vote accordingly.
Sorry...that's a bit tough...I could vote different countried depending on different definitions, which is why I always have trouble with these kinds of polls (like the ones about the worst dictators too...). I think I'll abstain.

I knew some agitator would say this. Prove it! You have all these specious ideas about America .... well, put your money where your big mouth is: prove it! I live in the US and we do not abuse people's civil rights. Period.

Um... Eutrusca, locking people up without trial and then torturing them is kinda abusing human rights. Especially if you say they're not soldiers so they're not covered by Geneva. You have to pick, really; are they civilians, in which case they get a trial-by-jury, or are they soldiers, in which case they're covered by Geneva. There's no other options.

I knew some agitator would say this. Prove it! You have all these specious ideas about America .... well, put your money where your big mouth is: prove it! I live in the US and we do not abuse people's civil rights. Period.
Well, to be fair, since there are no guidelines of how to judge a nation as the worst human rights abuser, this is a purely subjective poll. No proof is needed...it is based solely on the opinions of the poll-taker, rather than on any facts.

Please tell me you're not serious.

I'm perfectly serious. Although the USA doesn't violate the rights of their own citizens as much as other nations they have been responsible for terrible abuses in other countries such as in Latin America where they have an appalling record of helping far right nazis like the Contras in Nicaragua or the fascist governments of Chile, El Salvador and Argentina. More recently we have seen the USA invading Iraq with little justification which according to the Lancet medical journal has claimed the lives of 100,000 people. Even within the USA new laws such as Patriot Act are fast turning the country into a police state and in Guantanamo (an illegally occupied part of a sovereign nation) people have been held for over 3 years in the most brutal of conditions without any charge or trial.

Turkmenistan is officially the most tyrannical place on earth.

How did Cuba get on the list? Cuba's ok compared to a lot of other places.

Human rights conditions in the U.S., while not perfect, are far better than in most countries. Go to Zimbabwe, Cuba, Russia, China, North Korea, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, Myanmar, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Libya, Algeria, Angola, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, South Africa, Kuwait, Iran, Pakistan, etc. and see for yourself.

I'm perfectly serious. Although the USA doesn't violate the rights of their own citizens as much as other nations they have been responsible for terrible abuses in other countries such as in Latin America where they have an appalling record of helping far right nazis like the Contras in Nicaragua or the fascist governments of Chile, El Salvador and Argentina. More recently we have seen the USA invading Iraq with little justification which according to the Lancet medical journal has claimed the lives of 100,000 people. Even within the USA new laws such as Patriot Act are fast turning the country into a police state and in Guantanamo (an illegally occupied part of a sovereign nation) people have been held for over 3 years in the most brutal of conditions without any charge or trial.

And how the hell is the U.S. worse than Sudan, North Korea, Zimbabwe, et. al., pray tell?

Turkmenistan is officially the most tyrannical place on earth.

How did Cuba get on the list? Cuba's ok compared to a lot of other places.

it probably has something to do with cuba being communist but that's just what i think

Well, to be fair, since there are no guidelines of how to judge a nation as the worst human rights abuser, this is a purely subjective poll. No proof is needed...it is based solely on the opinions of the poll-taker, rather than on any facts.
God forbid any European or Canadian should have to resort to ( ** GASP ** ) FACTS! :rolleyes:

I'm perfectly serious. Although the USA doesn't violate the rights of their own citizens as much as other nations they have been responsible for terrible abuses in other countries such as in Latin America where they have an appalling record of helping far right nazis like the Contras in Nicaragua or the fascist governments of Chile, El Salvador and Argentina. More recently we have seen the USA invading Iraq with little justification which according to the Lancet medical journal has claimed the lives of 100,000 people. Even within the USA new laws such as Patriot Act are fast turning the country into a police state and in Guantanamo (an illegally occupied part of a sovereign nation) people have been held for over 3 years in the most brutal of conditions without any charge or trial.

Still doesn't really compare with, just for example, anything Saudi Arabia does to it's citizens every day. Though you do have to admit that the US supports the Saudis entirely and commitedly. Despite them being the most obvious example of a tyranical despotism in the world. Ho Hum.

As for your other examples, most of those weren't actually sanctioned by the US government. They were conducted by the CIA, because someone decided to put in their mandate that they didn't need to listen to the government if they felt something was a matter for national security. Which is probably the dumbest thing anyone's ever written. Period.

And how the hell is the U.S. worse than Sudan, North Korea, Zimbabwe, et. al., pray tell?

I think he's saying that the US is worse because we prop up a lot of the regimes that are the worst human rights violators.

Well, to be fair, since there are no guidelines of how to judge a nation as the worst human rights abuser, this is a purely subjective poll. No proof is needed...it is based solely on the opinions of the poll-taker, rather than on any facts.
God forbid any European or Canadian should have to resort to ( ** GASP ** ) FACTS! :rolleyes:

it probably has something to do with cuba being communist but that's just what i think

But:

a) It actually has a well informed population who take part in elections if they are narrow and unpluralist.

b) It isn't communist at all.

Other - The United States of America.
Meh, the USA is not free of human rights abuses, but it's far from being the worst. I'd even say it's below average.

My vote is with Sudan, followed very closely by North Korea. Although I we're giving points for consistency, NK should win.

I think he's saying that the US is worse because we prop up a lot of the regimes that are the worst human rights violators.

Yeah, but in other threads, he said Cuba, Libya, and Russia respected civil liberties the most (ROLFMAO) and that human rights organizations were 'fascist' and secretly run by the CIA (ROFLMAO). :rolleyes:

God forbid any European or Canadian should have to resort to ( ** GASP ** ) FACTS! :rolleyes:

Yeah, because all the Americans here back up their arguments with sources all the time, right?

Other - The United States of America.
Everything human rights abuse that America commits, China does it ten times worse.

I live in the US and we do not abuse people's civil rights. Period.
Not that I agree with Europaland, but this poll is about human rights not civil rights.

But:

a) It actually has a well informed population who take part in elections if they are narrow and unpluralist.

b) It isn't communist at all.

oh, my bad. i apoligise. i am uninformed in these matters of cuba

Yeah, but in other threads, he said Cuba, Libya, and Russia respected civil liberties the most (ROLFMAO) and that human rights organizations were 'fascist' and secretly run by the CIA (ROFLMAO). :rolleyes:

Ah. Well that I can't say anything about, as I've never bothered to pay attention to any of his/her posts before.

Well, the US is the country that should know better and not do anything like that...

Yeah, because all the Americans here back up their arguments with sources all the time, right?

All? Um ... in a word? No.

However, I am as guilty as some of getting rather fed up with all the America-bashing on here and sometimes resort to responding to the ten-thousandth identical America-bash with sarcasm, and with what some overly-sensitive souls refer to as "personal attacks." Some on here are so predictable in their anti-American posts that no facts, logic or reasoning will dissuade them. Frustration tends to build when these particular ideologues post, to the point that the temptation to simply respond in kind becomes overwhelming.

Well, the US is the country that should know better and not do anything like that...

"They should know better" does not mean that they are the worst.

Not that I agree with Europaland, but this poll is about human rights not civil rights.
Excuse my ignorance. Kindly explain the difference.

All? Um ... in a word? No.

However, I am as guilty as some of getting rather fed up with all the America-bashing on here and sometimes resort to responding to the ten-thousandth identical America-bash with sarcasm, and with what some overly-sensitive souls refer to as "personal attacks." Some on here are so predictable in their anti-American posts that no facts, logic or reasoning will dissuade them. Frustration tends to build when these particular ideologues post, to the point that the temptation to simply respond in kind becomes overwhelming.

Then why did you specifically call out Europeans and Canadians? Surely you should have included Americans in that list. There is a fair amount of Americans on this forum who don't back up a damn thing they say.

Then why did you specifically call out Europeans and Canadians? Surely you should have included Americans in that list. There is a fair amount of Americans on this forum who don't back up a damn thing they say.

You should give at least some small mention to all the Europeans and Canadains that DO back up what they say. I know I generally do. You can usually tell who they are because they admit there's two sides to the situation.

It's hard to quantify any one "worst" country. A lot of the countries listed are varying degrees of bad.

do stop bickering pointlessly.

If we must degrade ourselves to the level of judging the culture of another based on our own quite possibly flawed sence of morality lets at least get our facts straight.

The United States, Does abuse human rights, but in this world might really does mean right

They are however not the worst offenders but as pointed out previously they prop up the governments of some of the most brutal governments on the planet.

Cuba most definatly IS communist, however its actually one of the most prosperous nations on the planet in terms of education, heath care, social welfare, public transport and many of the other way which we use to come to some sort of idea of how nice a pleasant is to live in for its members.

People who claim the US is the "worst human right violator" either talk like this: 'yes, the US are complete idiots and annoying as hell' - which makes them an idiot - or read too many Noam Chomsky essays - which makes them an idiot.

Last I checked, Germany killed a few million Jews in the 40s. That sticks them on the list. France and the UK split their colonies with no regard to the ethnicity of the peoples therein, leaving those areas in a state of constant civil/internecine warfare. That sticks them on the list. Well, I guess if we're going to single out France and the UK, we should probably stick most every other European nation guilty of colonization on there.

...Shoot, there goes Europe.

Then why did you specifically call out Europeans and Canadians? Surely you should have included Americans in that list. There is a fair amount of Americans on this forum who don't back up a damn thing they say.
Oh, I definitely agree with that! However, I tend to deal with my fellow Americans separately ( no matter how deluded and misguided they may be ) since we have elections and such to settle matters amongst us.

"They should know better" does not mean that they are the worst.
Ah, but they are the country that is held up as a paragon of virtue and as a 'shining beacon of hope' for mankind (traditionally). If they act like that, and other countries point to the US saying "you did it too" (Putin did this when Bush complained about the restrictions on freedom of the press in Russia), wouldn't the blame be transfered to the United States in part for acting badly and starting this mess?


But quite frankly, this argument is pointless- any violation goes too far, any violation can be used to justify another violation. They're all the worst.

[QUOTE=Your NationState Here]People who claim the US is the "worst human right violator" either talk like this: 'yes, the US are complete idiots and annoying as hell' - which makes them an idiot[QUOTE]

sorry, but do you mind READING my post?

Excuse my ignorance. Kindly explain the difference.
Civil rights are those legal rights retained by citizens and protected by the government. Examples include the right to vote and anti-discrimination laws. Civil rights movements usually want equal protection of the laws for minorities, as well as new laws outlawing discrimination and its vestiges. Civil rights effectively upholds the values of positive liberty.

Human rights refers to legal and ethical standards of behavior and principles of entitlement that have acquired, within the political and legal system of a country or of multilateral institutions, a status of enhanced expectation of compliance due to their essential importance in achieving justice within that society. The term "human rights" and its equivalent in other languages usually means the norms which have been incorporated in international human rights instruments. These norms are based on the legal and political traditions of all the member states of the United Nations concerning what is essential to human survival (rights to life, to an adequate standard of living, prohibition of genocide, etc.), to integrity and authonomy of the person (freedom from torture and other mistreatment, freedom of expression, freedom of momement, etc.) and to fulfilment of the human potential in society (rights to self-determination, to education, to participation in cultural and political life, etc.) These rights have been defined primarily in the International Bill of Rights, consisting of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights of 1948 and the two International Covenants of 1966, as well as by other human rights treaties and declarations of the United Nations and regional organizations.

There is actually some overlap between them.

but there are much worse countries on abusing human rights.

i don't like qouting myself but i was forced to

Its a tough question. China's is bad, but they are slowly getting better. so North Korea and Turkmenistan.

China is not improving, they're just being ignored because of the massive amount of US interests there. Its getting worse, they're seizing people's houses with no compensation so that an apartment can be built.

Um... Eutrusca, locking people up without trial and then torturing them is kinda abusing human rights. Especially if you say they're not soldiers so they're not covered by Geneva. You have to pick, really; are they civilians, in which case they get a trial-by-jury, or are they soldiers, in which case they're covered by Geneva. There's no other options.

so... how many countries simply kill suspected terrorists?

what's worse: being killed or being interrogated for info?

mentioning the US here is absolutely baseless and assinine, when you consider ALL THE COUNTRIES THAT SIMPLY KILL DISSIDENTS WITHIN THEIR BORDERS.

torture: half-naked woman rubbing herself on you

ooh, that's brutal

have we broken any of their bones?
have we soaked any of them in acid baths (one of saddam's favorites)?
have we ripped out their fingernails?
etc?

THOSE are examples of torture. Getting a lap dance is not. imo, of course.

China is not improving, they're just being ignored because of the massive amount of US interests there. Its getting worse, they're seizing people's houses with no compensation so that an apartment can be built.

At least they're not sending armed gangsters to beat, terrorize, torture, and kill people because of their skin color, prior to seizing their property and giving it to friends of the dictator. *cough*Zimbabwe*cough*

have we broken any of their bones?
have we soaked any of them in acid baths (one of saddam's favorites)?
have we ripped out their fingernails?
etc?

THOSE are examples of torture. Getting a lap dance is not. imo, of course.
You're right that the US type of torture isn't as bad as many other countries. Americans are just learning how to torture!

Funny that you didn't mention

have we electrocuted them? (a traditional favourite of torturers)

well... actually you have.

bump

The United States. They are so bad President Bush spies on people and tells them how to have sex this is the worst violation of human rights anywhere. Also, he kills muslims. /well...uh...a whole bunch of crap :D

All industrialized nations are the worst human rights abusers. Notwithstanding the fact they got to where they are today on the backs of slaves, but they are destroying the world environmentally, abusing our right to health, our right to life, and our right to safety.

Well, for me, it would have to be North Korea. The situation there strikes me as being like France in the latter 1700's. Kim Jong Il is living the high life, eating ten course dinners, while his constituents starve and are reduced to human skeletons. The man lets his nation go through a massive humanitarian crisis, and he does not care. The man imprisoned a woman for singing an old love song, and threw her in a prison camp (this came from the History Channel). The man even keeps children of prisoners in jail, for that fact.

Cuba, well, Castro isn't that evil. He's more of a joke now. Sudan and Myanmar are terrible, but I put up the point mentioned earlier that North Korea is more consistent. If anything, North Korea is also more brutally oppressive and soullessly efficent in its evil.

To all those nations that put up the US as a human rights violator, I'd have to say I disagree with you heartily. I am a Chinese-American, and very proud of that. The US isn't perfect, but it is better than anybody else on the list. Democracy is a long term endeavor, we may not be perfect, but by God, we try.

In the following order:
1. Sudan
2. North Korea
3. Saudi Arabia

God forbid any European or Canadian should have to resort to ( ** GASP ** ) FACTS! :rolleyes:
If facts are what you want, then you need to define the original question. Again, worse in terms of total numbers, level of brutality, according to what definition of human rights etc etc...

You could say Stalin was worse than Hitler because of total numbers killed, or you say that Castro is worse than Pinochet because of...well I don't know, but people do say such things. You can't make a decision based on facts when the boundaries aren't clear.

Other - United States of America.

Not primarily due to domestic human rights violations (although there are plenty in the US as it is), but due to the worldwide regime of the US, which supports brutal dictatorships, which brings them to power or which breaks human rights itself outside it's own borders. In addition, the US have broken the UN charter willfully, despite millions of people protesting against it. The US killed hundreds of thousands of people, if not millions, during the last 50 years. This adds up to a score, which brings the US to the front of human rights abusers in my opinion.

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/01/13/usdom9853.htm

Human rights conditions in the U.S., while not perfect, are far better than in most countries. Go to Zimbabwe, Cuba, Russia, China, North Korea, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, Myanmar, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Libya, Algeria, Angola, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, South Africa, Kuwait, Iran, Pakistan, etc. and see for yourself.


RB, even Amnesty International is barred from most of those countries. China(internet users are imprisoned or executed), North Korea(where starving people are placed in concentration camps), etc, etc.

http://www.amnesty.org/

bump

I'll try. Might need some help, though. ;)

Any volunteers?
http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/waffen/violent-smiley-020.gif

They're all so damn bad...I'll go with Sudan though.

I'm perfectly serious. Although the USA doesn't violate the rights of their own citizens as much as other nations they have been responsible for terrible abuses in other countries such as in Latin America where they have an appalling record of helping far right nazis like the Contras in Nicaragua or the fascist governments of Chile, El Salvador and Argentina.

Not entierly accurate. Even if that were completely accurate, how does it give the US bad human rights. List Nicaragua, Chile, El Salvador and Argentina and you'll have contenders.

More recently we have seen the USA invading Iraq with little justification

Incorrect.

which according to the Lancet medical journal has claimed the lives of 100,000 people.

Poor study, taken out of context.

Even within the USA new laws such as Patriot Act are fast turning the country into a police state

Not hardly.

and in Guantanamo (an illegally occupied part of a sovereign nation)

Incorrect.

people have been held for over 3 years in the most brutal of conditions without any charge or trial.

The conditions there, and even indeed at Abu Ghraib at it worst under the US, are hardly the most brutal. Bad? Probably. Illegal? Very likely. Butthe most brutal? Not even close.

I'll try. Might need some help, though. ;)

Any volunteers?

Me, me!

I voted North Korea, as it's simply nightmarish. Nearly all of the governments listed are terrible abusers of human rights and come close, however. Though i'd respectfully disagree with Cuba being up there. Compared to some other Latin American governments of the late 20th century, Cuba isn't so bad. It's no paradise, but you could do worse. I'm not sure what the governments of Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan are like, either.

I'll go with North Korea on this one.

As for major countries, I believe Russia just might give China a run for its money.

Other - The United States of America.

Add another vote to that tally. See Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib.

I knew some agitator would say this. Prove it! You have all these specious ideas about America .... well, put your money where your big mouth is: prove it! I live in the US and we do not abuse people's civil rights. Period.

They don't abuse their own people of course.

in this world might really does mean right.

That doesn't mean it should.

What? Iran and their "morality police" aren't on that poll?