NationStates Jolt Archive

I've heard it said in many a thread that Canadians constantly bash the US and never say anything bad about their own country. My argument is that this is a very US-issue heavy forum, and the examples given to start debates about certain issues are BETTER when they are examples most people on NS are familiar with.

But since some of you are asking for it, go ahead...let's talk dirty...oh wait, not dirty....BAD about Canada so you can go ahead and vent.

Though the same people who complain that we don't talk enough about Canada also seem not to give a rat's ass about Canada anyway...so why would we start a thread no one will participate in?

Well, let's see how this one goes. Bash away (try to bring up real issues if you are capable of it though).

Ohhhhh this is gonna be fun.



BRING IT ON !!!!!!! :mp5:

Ohhhhh this is gonna be fun.



BRING IT ON !!!!!!! :mp5:
I have a feeling it's going to be a dud. Even though they were asking for Zep to do it...

im going to canada in the summer




that is all

think that the main problems between the US and Canada are:

1) cigarettes
2) expensive defense systems
3) a particularly screwed-up version of French
4) parliamentarians stomping on dolls

These problems have resulted in the typical American thinking of Canadians as French-speaking rubes who will pay too much for cigarettes they shouldn't be smoking and too much for weapon systems they don't need. Americans also find the reaction of Canadians comical - once a Canadian finds out he's been taken advantage of, something silly inevitably happens.

Oddly, Canadians think of Americans as rubes who can't even speak French, who smoke cigarettes when they shouldn't and who spend billions on weapon systems so they can go leaping about the world like Jolly Green Giants with guns. Canadians are also amazed at the fact that the typical American never catches on to the fact that he's been taken advantage of.

*snip*
Oh now you've gone and ruined it! You brought up the US! How are we supposed to focus on Canada if you bring the US into things all the time!

What are some of the solutions to the many problems that the Mushuau Innu face? Why does it seem that Canada took so long to deal with Davis Inlet?

All nations equally suck in their own special way.

think that the main problems between the US and Canada are:

1) cigarettes
2) expensive defense systems
3) a particularly screwed-up version of French
4) parliamentarians stomping on dolls

These problems have resulted in the typical American thinking of Canadians as French-speaking rubes who will pay too much for cigarettes they shouldn't be smoking and too much for weapon systems they don't need. Americans also find the reaction of Canadians comical - once a Canadian finds out he's been taken advantage of, something silly inevitably happens.

Oddly, Canadians think of Americans as rubes who can't even speak French, who smoke cigarettes when they shouldn't and who spend billions on weapon systems so they can go leaping about the world like Jolly Green Giants with guns. Canadians are also amazed at the fact that the typical American never catches on to the fact that he's been taken advantage of.


Plz explain to me the screwed up version of French!!! I don`t think you know french very well. We have a different accent thats all, like Texas our Philadelphia.

Well, what I hate about Canada is just how far away it is from Britain. That pushes up costs, people! But seriously, I intend, in the scheme of things, to move to Canada, because it's a great place. But like I said... it's so far away, and that means I have to sit in a long flight, and the cost for me to get there will go up. And that's one thing that just sucks about Canada.

Plz explain to me the screwed up version of French!!! I don`t think you know french very well. We have a different accent thats all, like Texas our Philadelphia.

That's not what the people in Paris told me. After forcing me to stop speaking French, they said I sounded almost as bad as those damn Quebecois.

All nations equally suck in their own special way.
End of discussion.

That's not what the people in Paris told me. After forcing me to stop speaking French, they said I sounded almost as bad as those damn Quebecois.

If you come in Montreal we will say the same thing about them. They talk funny. We talk harsh in a way. We talk like woodsman :)

I love canada... Except for their wonky coins... Ever put one of those in the freezer and see if you could pop out the middle part?

Ya Der Hay!
----------------------------------
Ohhhh, Connada
Our Home And Native Land
Great Hockey Players
Like Gretzky And Lemieux

With Moun-ties
On Hor-sies
And the legend Mike Weir

PUCKS .. AND .. BUCKS
DUCKS .. AND .. .. MORE PUCKS

Oh, Connada
WE STAND ON GUARD FOR THEE
Oh, Connada
WE STAND ON GUARD.. FOR.. THEE.

I am from the U.S.

However I truly believe that Canada is much better than the U.S.

Healthcare is great
There are less murders
People are much more laid back
and much more fun

Not to mention that they don't go jumping into every fucking war that the US jumps on to push Democracy on people at the point of a gun, and the wars they do get into is only because the U.S. is right next to them and they are smart enough to pretend to be friend with us.

What are some of the solutions to the many problems that the Mushuau Innu face? Why does it seem that Canada took so long to deal with Davis Inlet?
Ooh ooh, pick me, pick me!

As a native, this is what I have to say about how Canada treats native issues.

If there isn't an Oka, you don't get respect...and if there IS an Oka, you don't get respect AND you get called dangerous, or terroristic separatists.

Mostly they get mad and blame us for being addicted to sniffing gas, and ignore the fact that we are stuck on reserves with no employment, no hope, no family structure, and not future. Why NOT sniff gas in that situation?

Lazy Indians, looking for government handouts just because we destroyed their way of life and ensured that we shattered cultural and familial bonds with our Residential schools, then expected them to somehow pull themselves up by their bootstraps with large cash infusions instead of appropriate infrastructure and real social programs.

I am from the U.S.

However I truly believe that Canada is much better than the U.S.

Healthcare is great
There are less murders
People are much more laid back
and much more fun

Not to mention that they don't go jumping into every fucking war that the US jumps on to push Democracy on people at the point of a gun, and the wars they do get into is only because the U.S. is right next to them and they are smart enough to pretend to be friend with us.
Hey... I agree 100%

I'll have to admit a general ignorance about things Canadian. I have been there, but except for one Canadian bitch who married a good friend of mine and made his life miserable, I can't say I have anything against Canada or Canadians.

They have some good comedians, have given us some good bands, and well, I like to watch Red Green and laugh. But his kind of stupidity can be found here in the US, too.

Canada is not the utopia that so many of us Americans, sick of the Bush Dynasty would like to think it is, with cheap prescription drugs and federally funded health care. And other than the fact that it's cold so much of the damn time, I wouldn't mind living there.

I do have to say that I think of Canada as a weak country, militarily, as least as compared to the US, but really, is the US might doing anything except giving us the power to terrorize other countries?

So pass me some of that back bacon, eh?, and teach me all the words to "Oh Canada" and I'll shut up.

Odd. When I was in Paris, I always spoke with my Quebecois french, and no-one seemed to notice or care.

Oh by the way, Stiech Tabr, IIRC, isn't it spelt Sietch Tabr

If you come in Montreal we will say the same thing about them. They talk funny. We talk harsh in a way. We talk like woodsman :)
You quack like ducks, and I love it!

Wah (oui)

Ha ha, the NHL season got cancelled.

Plz explain to me the screwed up version of French!!! I don`t think you know french very well. We have a different accent thats all, like Texas our Philadelphia.

Not according to one of my Parisian friends. It's more like Australian to Brooklyn.

Ooh ooh, pick me, pick me!

As a native, this is what I have to say about how Canada treats native issues.

If there isn't an Oka, you don't get respect...and if there IS an Oka, you get called dangerous, or terroristic separatists.

Mostly they get mad and blame us for being addicted to sniffing gas, and ignore the fact that we are stuck on reserves with no employment, no hope, no family structure, and not future. Why NOT sniff gas in that situation?

Lazy Indians, looking for government handouts just because we destroyed their way of life and ensured that we shattered cultural and familial bonds with our Residential schools, then expected them to somehow pull themselves up by their bootstraps with large cash infusions instead of appropriate infrastructure and real social programs.


I totally agree with you...It`s not fair taht your are confined in your Reseves. And for people bashing you because you have tax credits well YOU should have...It`s your land before ours in a way. Maybe we should seperate together. Quebec should form an alliance with the natives and seperate from Canada ;)

Well, what I hate about Canada is just how far away it is from Britain. That pushes up costs, people! But seriously, I intend, in the scheme of things, to move to Canada, because it's a great place. But like I said... it's so far away, and that means I have to sit in a long flight, and the cost for me to get there will go up. And that's one thing that just sucks about Canada.

Don't know much about airfare from the UK to Canada, but check into flights into New York. When I was looking at vacations, I found that there were often flights from New York to Europe (not necessarily the other way around) for a lot cheaper than flying cross country here.

Anway, what the heck do the French from France have to say about how our French people speak? You don't hear Britain complaining that the US and Canada have destroyed English, do you? And who the f*ck cares if they DO say that?

You want to hear REALLY screwed up French? Check out Michif, which is a Metis language, a blend of Cree and French mostly. http://www.metisresourcecentre.mb.ca/language/lesson1.htm

Those of you who understand a bit of French will be shocked by how us Indians have shamelessly stolen bits of the language and made it our own:)

I totally agree with you...It`s not fair taht your are confined in your Reseves. And for people bashing you because you have tax credits well YOU should have...It`s your land before ours in a way. Maybe we should seperate together. Quebec should form an alliance with the natives and seperate from Canada ;)
Na...we can't stand you frogs either:) (kidding!) But seriously, if you separate, expect us to separate from you. That seems to be the general feeling, anyway :D

Na...we can't stand you frogs either:) (kidding!) But seriously, if you separate, expect us to separate from you. That seems to be the general feeling, anyway :D



We wont let you!!!!!!! Seems familiar.....

I am from the U.S.

Healthcare is great
There are less murders
People are much more laid back
and much more fun


Healthcare is great, as long as you don't mind waiting. Want to go to a private practice? Oops, sorry but most of those are illegal.

Less people=less murder

I'm laid back and I am not Canadian. I'm also much more fun.

Less people=less murder

They are at a lower percentage not just lower absolute

Canada::USA
a) cold::warm
b) Khazakstan::Russia
c) moose::deer
d) Adanac::ASU



If you gave any answer other than (d) you are wrong. The points will be deducted from your SAT score and your retarded ass won't be going to college. :D

Mostly they get mad and blame us for being addicted to sniffing gas, and ignore the fact that we are stuck on reserves with no employment, no hope, no family structure, and not future. Why NOT sniff gas in that situation?

Lazy Indians, looking for government handouts just because we destroyed their way of life and ensured that we shattered cultural and familial bonds with our Residential schools, then expected them to somehow pull themselves up by their bootstraps with large cash infusions instead of appropriate infrastructure and real social programs.

Yes, but what are some solutions?

BTW I saw the documentary on the Innu. It was shocking to see all of those kids standing around huffing gas out of bags. I also was amazed to learn that they have one of the highest (if not the top) suicide rate in the world!

I find it hilariously hypocritical of those who blame Canada for not minding their own business when they (right-winger citizens of the US) are all for US unilateral warfare and forcefully imposing democracy on other countries. *giggle* oh it's so silly I pee'd myself a little.

OH wait, damn you Canadians and your luring away of our liberals!

They are at a lower percentage not just lower absolute

Yes, but your crime rates (besides murder) are actually higher.

Yes, but your crime rates (besides murder) are actually higher.
Not mine ... I am from minnesota :-D

Here's something that really bothers me about Canada. We are incredibly wasteful, and we pollute to a ridiculous degree. We have all this empty space that we can dump our pollution into, and all these resources we can exploit, and for some reason we kind of assume it will always be that way. Let's sell our water...after all, we have more than enough, and who cares if any water-selling agreement would require us to sell even if we DID start to experience shortages...let's cut down all our old-growth forests, sell the raw wood to other countries and then buy back the processed wood products! Let's rely on our natural resources, deplete them and never care! YAY FOR US!

Ooh ooh, pick me, pick me!

As a native, this is what I have to say about how Canada treats native issues.

If there isn't an Oka, you don't get respect...and if there IS an Oka, you don't get respect AND you get called dangerous, or terroristic separatists.

Mostly they get mad and blame us for being addicted to sniffing gas, and ignore the fact that we are stuck on reserves with no employment, no hope, no family structure, and not future. Why NOT sniff gas in that situation?

Lazy Indians, looking for government handouts just because we destroyed their way of life and ensured that we shattered cultural and familial bonds with our Residential schools, then expected them to somehow pull themselves up by their bootstraps with large cash infusions instead of appropriate infrastructure and real social programs.


wow im sure natives take no blame at all in the current situation.

Yes, but your crime rates (besides murder) are actually higher.


wadd thats bullshit, if you got your stats off the CIA website and stats Can, remember that canada records EVERY criminal offense on that site, whereas the CIA DOES NOT.
:rolleyes:

Here's something that really bothers me about Canada. We are incredibly wasteful, and we pollute to a ridiculous degree. We have all this empty space that we can dump our pollution into, and all these resources we can exploit, and for some reason we kind of assume it will always be that way. Let's sell our water...after all, we have more than enough, and who cares if any water-selling agreement would require us to sell even if we DID start to experience shortages...let's cut down all our old-growth forests, sell the raw wood to other countries and then buy back the processed wood products! Let's rely on our natural resources, deplete them and never care! YAY FOR US!

most wood is processed and second growth forest products are going to the vast majority of products (like 90% are from forests that have been replanted!!, by 2010)

I've heard it said in many a thread that Canadians constantly bash the US and never say anything bad about their own country. My argument is that this is a very US-issue heavy forum, and the examples given to start debates about certain issues are BETTER when they are examples most people on NS are familiar with.

But since some of you are asking for it, go ahead...let's talk dirty...oh wait, not dirty....BAD about Canada so you can go ahead and vent.

Though the same people who complain that we don't talk enough about Canada also seem not to give a rat's ass about Canada anyway...so why would we start a thread no one will participate in?

Well, let's see how this one goes. Bash away (try to bring up real issues if you are capable of it though).

Wow, are you the official spokesperson for EVERYONE? Howd you gain that title? oh wait...you arent? then how could you state that EVERYONE is tired of US bashing?

:rolleyes:

Canada::USA
a) cold::warm
b) Khazakstan::Russia
c) moose::deer
d) Adanac::ASU

If you gave any answer other than (d) you are wrong. The points will be deducted from your SAT score and your retarded ass won't be going to college. :D

I've never heard for Adanac nor ASU. Please define?

Yes, but what are some solutions?

BTW I saw the documentary on the Innu. It was shocking to see all of those kids standing around huffing gas out of bags. I also was amazed to learn that they have one of the highest (if not the top) suicide rate in the world!

Yes, they are the highest of the high...the high being all other native groups in Canada.

Solutions? Oh boy...do I have the time to go into this....

1) Stop throwing money at our problems. Don't cut us off, but don't give cold hard cash to corrupt band leaders and then wash your hands of us.

2) We need real infrastructure. Unfortunately, most reserves or native lands are in out-of-the-way places, many are fly-in communities and very isolated. Infrastructure is expensive to build and maintain, and we don't have the employment to maintain it ourselves. But if we are going to figure out ways to be self-sufficient, we NEED the infrastructure. This means:
- decent housing. In the North, upwards of three families live in one 5x12 house. You can die waiting for a house. Housing is one of the things that is supposed to be provided for with a blend of band funds and government funding.
- decent roads or airports to provide access to the outside. (not an issue in all cases, but in the North it really is)
- community services...we need rec centres, good schools...medical units and so on. Or at least good service from rotating professionals.

3) We need to rebuild our families. Abuse is still rife in native communities, and because of the insularity of reserve councils, the lack of understanding among outside professionals, and the general feeling that it is an 'Indian' problem, it goes untreated. This can't come just from the outside. We need to work within our own communities to change this. We have problems with substance abuse and suicide, and high unemployment. The fact is, there isn't much work on the reserve, so most of the young people leave, which leads me to my next point:

4) Laws on Status need to change. Once you are off-reserve, you are cut off from band funding, and you lose your status. Many natives are urban dwellers now, and are even more cut off from their culture. Friendship centres help, but natives are still the most despised minority...and we know it. Stereotypes follow us wherever we go. It can't be an all or nothing issue with Status...if you live in the city, that doesn't mean you're not an Indian.

5) People need to take us seriously, and learn about us. We are not like other minorities. We have a long history in Canada, and yet we have been relegated to the sidelines in favour of other groups (the French spring to mind). We are hidden away in reservations that the majority of the population never sees, and we are the invisible miserables on the streets of your cities. You learn about bannock, and pow-wows and totem poles and whale hunting and think we are all the same. We are distinct groups, with distinct cultures and languages, and we are more than the 'exotic' trappings of our culture. You need to know the good with the bad, and work WITH us to deal with the bad.

6) We need real education. Schools were moved to the reserves to help natives have more of a say in the education of our children, but we are still cut out by school boards that blame parents solely for the actions of children, and most of our teachers know nothing of our culture. The schools we have are Canadian schools painted Indian...they don't suit us, or our needs, and they blame us for that failure. They ridicule traditional knowledge, or pay homage to it in name only, and teach our children that they must discard their identities in order to 'make it' in the world. Our languages are dying, our traditions are fading, and we are not accepted into the fold of 'Canadian' culture to compensate. We need to know we have self-worth as the people we are, not as a people who haven't managed to assimilate properly.

7) We need employment! We need job training that won't necessarily drag us away from our communities! Why do you think so many bands are turning to casinos? At least they provide employment and keep more people there. Not all reserves are lucky enough to find oil under their lands...or diamonds and gold.

There is more...it's a complex issue, but I'll stop there for now.

Yes, but your crime rates (besides murder) are actually higher.
someone provide stats here please...to compare the US and Canada...

wow im sure natives take no blame at all in the current situation.
That's just the point. We take ALL the blame. The only blame the rest of Canada takes is that, "We spend too much money on them and it enables their behaviour".

most wood is processed and second growth forest products are going to the vast majority of products (like 90% are from forests that have been replanted!!, by 2010)
Yes, but that doesn't mean we aren't being silly by exporting raw materials and importing the finished goods (furniture etc etc..). Why don't we start processing those raw materials ourselves?

Wow, are you the official spokesperson for EVERYONE? Howd you gain that title? oh wait...you arent? then how could you state that EVERYONE is tired of US bashing?
Um... I see sarcasm is lost on you...but you go right ahead and US bash if you feel like it...

Actually, I have nothing bad to say about Canada. I like Canada, and by and large, most Canadians. The most significant thing I can come up with about some Canadians is that they know so much better how the US and Americans should behave than do Americans themselves. Hell, why don't we just surrender to Canada and let them deal with all the issues of being the number one terrorist target in the world, having a disproportionate impact on the world's economy, having the world's most capable military, being a polyglot nation of immigrants, etc., etc.???

Actually, I have nothing bad to say about Canada. I like Canada, and by and large, most Canadians. The most significant thing I can come up with about some Canadians is that they know so much better how the US and Americans should behave than do Americans themselves. Hell, why don't we just surrender to Canada and let them deal with all the issues of being the number one terrorist target in the world, having a disproportionate impact on the world's economy, having the world's most capable military, being a polyglot nation of immigrants, etc., etc.???
Well, this is a bit ironic since you are the reason this thread was started. You bash, but do not discuss...rather like what you accuse Zep of doing...perhaps it is only that you feel Canadians should talk only of Canadian issues, and leave the rest of the world to the US to discuss? Rather one-sided, don't you think?

One bad thing I see about Canada, Toronto especifically, don't know if it can be applied to the rest of Canada, is that every decision to improve the city, build a road, expand the subway, etc. is discussed endlessly in City Council because everyone has a particular idea about how to spend the money. This leads to throwing money away in half-baked solutions that are never finished and help no one.

Johnny Wadd: Private practices in Canada are not illegal. Although a person needs license to practice medicine, just like everywhere else, they can have their own practice. Of course, since they're in competition with the social insurance most people don't prefer them.

And you can choose your own doctor.

Yeah Canadians are smart for not giving terrorists a reason to target them! GO Canada!

Yes, but that doesn't mean we aren't being silly by exporting raw materials and importing the finished goods (furniture etc etc..). Why don't we start processing those raw materials ourselves?


well we dont make wood crafts we make wood boards, pulp, stuff like that. Wood is mainly used to build, we make the building products...

Not mine ... I am from minnesota :-D

Isn't their a huge blackmarket for thermal undies up there?

Isn't their a huge blackmarket for thermal undies up there?
Not that I know of lol ... hell I dont even own a pair :p though they would be nice lol

someone provide stats here please...to compare the US and Canada...


just go to stats can and the cia website, you can compare the numbers.

Johnny wade saw them and said WOW less crime in USA VS canada. OF course if you read the fine print, you see that canada includes ALL crime whereas the CIA only incudes the major stuff...

Well, this is a bit ironic since you are the reason this thread was started. You bash, but do not discuss...rather like what you accuse Zep of doing...perhaps it is only that you feel Canadians should talk only of Canadian issues, and leave the rest of the world to the US to discuss? Rather one-sided, don't you think?
Sigh. Where did I "bash" either Canada or most Canadians? What do you want? Should I just say that Canada is the greatest nation on Earth and Canadians should have everything their way? Why is it ok for people like Zepp and Stephie to bash and bash and bash the US, but how friggin' DARE I say anything about Canada or Canadians???

well we dont make wood crafts we make wood boards, pulp, stuff like that. Wood is mainly used to build, we make the building products...
Uh-huh, then buy those wood products back when they are made into furniture, or pre-fabricated houses, or whatever. Don't you think BC for one would benefit from having a bit more manufacturing instead of pure resource exploitation?

Actually, I have nothing bad to say about Canada. I like Canada, and by and large, most Canadians. The most significant thing I can come up with about some Canadians is that they know so much better how the US and Americans should behave than do Americans themselves. Hell, why don't we just surrender to Canada and let them deal with all the issues of being the number one terrorist target in the world, having a disproportionate impact on the world's economy, having the world's most capable military, being a polyglot nation of immigrants, etc., etc.???
I thought Israel and now Iraq were the number one terrorist target in the world. Anyway, it's not like the US doesn't have an opinion on how Canadians run their business, like legalizing pot and gay marriage or not participating in the missile shield program.

EDIT: Oops! Forgot to say that my point is that all countries have an opinion on what other countries should or shouldn't do. I don't think that's wrong, since it's a very human characteristic. One can't expect Canada or the US to be different. Problems start when one country starts throwing its weight around to force changes in another one.

Uh-huh, then buy those wood products back when they are made into furniture, or pre-fabricated houses, or whatever. Don't you think BC for one would benefit from having a bit more manufacturing instead of pure resource exploitation?


ummmmm they manufacture building products, and lots of it...

just go to stats can and the cia website, you can compare the numbers.

Johnny wade saw them and said WOW less crime in USA VS canada. OF course if you read the fine print, you see that canada includes ALL crime whereas the CIA only incudes the major stuff...

It's Johnny Wadd to you pal. I did not use the CIA info. I'll have to look for that site again, but it will take time as the hands on my new arms don't work quite so fast.

Sigh. Where did I "bash" either Canada or most Canadians? What do you want? Should I just say that Canada is the greatest nation on Earth and Canadians should have everything their way? Why is it ok for people like Zepp and Stephie to bash and bash and bash the US, but how friggin' DARE I say anything about Canada or Canadians???
Sigh. You 'bash' Canada and most Candians by implying that we are simply meddlesome, then offering as an sarcastic solution that the US just turn over everything to Canada if we're sooooo much smarter than you....you are purposely being silly. If you see something specific that is lacking in Canada (so go ahead and talk about our opinons of you if you wish), then please offer a real analysis, and real solutions to the problem, or at the very least, discuss the issue without falling back on your usual attack procedures.

Quit saying, well so and so does this, so I will too. No one is asking you to follow the leader down the road of eternal insult-hurling. You wanted a thread about Canadian problems, and you got it. Now contribute in a useful way.

I think theres been quite a bit of sarcasm thrown around this thread from many people. The topic is just asking for a fight. You cant be sarcastic and then expect others not to rebut in a sarcastic manner. This is just one big Canada vs US fight waiting to happen.

Sigh. Where did I "bash" either Canada or most Canadians? What do you want? Should I just say that Canada is the greatest nation on Earth and Canadians should have everything their way? Why is it ok for people like Zepp and Stephie to bash and bash and bash the US, but how friggin' DARE I say anything about Canada or Canadians???

I challenge you to find these posts where Steph and Zepp "Bash and Bash and Bash the US" or Americans at all. I don't think you will have any luck. And you weren't beign accused of Bashing Canada and Canadians were you? You did however bash Zepp for talking about America sayign he was attacking America when in fact he was praising the US Govt. for a decision it made.

Oh, and if you feel Canadians shouldnt have any opinions about the US, then please refrain from makign remarks about any other country, especially how they are being run.

I don't resent anything about Canada except that some Canadians are intolerant of America's domestic politics, like a prudish, judgemental younger sister that doesn't approve of her lifestyle.

That about sums it up. America is Britannia's older, more cynical, and independent daughter. Canada is the younger, mild-mannered, and compliant daughter. Neither approve of the other's lifestyle.

I don't resent anything about Canada except that some Canadians are intolerant of America's domestic politics, like a prudish, judgemental younger sister that doesn't approve of her lifestyle.

That about sums it up. America is Britannia's older, more cynical, and independent daughter. Canada is the younger, mild-mannered, and compliant daughter. Neither approve of the other's lifestyle.


thats a neat way of putting it :)

I don't resent anything about Canada except that some Canadians are intolerant of America's domestic politics, like a prudish, judgemental younger sister that doesn't approve of her lifestyle.

That about sums it up. America is Britannia's older, more cynical, and independent daughter. Canada is the younger, mild-mannered, and compliant daughter. Neither approve of the other's lifestyle.

Don't forget those intolerant prudish judgemental Americans who are up in arms over Canadian domestic policies (gay marriage, legalizing marijuana...)

That about sums it up. America is Britannia's older, more cynical, and independent daughter. Canada is the younger, mild-mannered, and compliant daughter. Neither approve of the other's lifestyle.
Huh? I would say the US is the prudish one, what with considering pot the vilest of offenses, voting laws to ban gay marriage, trying to take evolution out of the school and religion in, etc.

ummmmm they manufacture building products, and lots of it...
2x4s are not exactly manufactured goods. When you start looking at things like, where your chipboard furniture (like entertainment systems and shelving units) come from, it probably isn't Canada. How much of your wood products in your home were manufactured in Canada? I'm talking tables, chairs, wooden bed frames, mirror frames, etc, etc.

It's Johnny Wadd to you pal. I did not use the CIA info. I'll have to look for that site again, but it will take time as the hands on my new arms don't work quite so fast.
LOL...you say things like that on purpose to disconcert people who don't know you... :p

I think theres been quite a bit of sarcasm thrown around this thread from many people. The topic is just asking for a fight. You cant be sarcastic and then expect others not to rebut in a sarcastic manner. This is just one big Canada vs US fight waiting to happen.
If it turns into that, c'est la vie....I would prefer to actually discuss Canadian issues, as I actually have been. I haven't bashed the US once in this thread.

Believe me, there are plenty of Americans who are less prudish than that noisy minority called the Religious Right. Just look at Howard Stern or the porn industry. Also, there are plenty of Canadian feminist types who are quite prudish.

If it turns into that, c'est la vie....I would prefer to actually discuss Canadian issues, as I actually have been. I haven't bashed the US once in this thread.


No, if it turns into that...I'm thinking it will be locked.

I don't resent anything about Canada except that some Canadians are intolerant of America's domestic politics, like a prudish, judgemental younger sister that doesn't approve of her lifestyle.

That about sums it up. America is Britannia's older, more cynical, and independent daughter. Canada is the younger, mild-mannered, and compliant daughter. Neither approve of the other's lifestyle.
Hey, Americans are intolerant of many of our policies too. Not the point. Let's discuss some real issues in a Canadian context for a change. Such as the native issues, or issues of raw material exports in exchange for manufactured goods imports...or any other issue you can think of aside (even opinions, as long as those opinions have an effect outside of just 'talk'...for example...what has Canada done BASED on our 'intolerance' of your domestic policies...).

That's not what the people in Paris told me. After forcing me to stop speaking French, they said I sounded almost as bad as those damn Quebecois.
Yeah the Quebecois accent is messed up, but I think that the dialect is pretty much the same as standard French.

thats a neat way of putting it :)
Honey, if we're so compliant (I know you didn't say it, but your quote is shorter and you seem to agree:)), why didn't we jump in bed with the British over Iraq?

Since when do the children in a relationship start running the show anyway? I think the metaphor could use some work...

Believe me, there are plenty of Americans who are less prudish than that noisy minority called the Religious Right. Just look at Howard Stern or the porn industry. Also, there are plenty of Canadian feminist types who are quite prudish.
!!?? Why are you blaming prudishness on feminists? Do you really think it is the feminists in Canada who oppose gay marriage? We tend to be the LESS prudish group, because we don't to stay back in the stone ages.

No, if it turns into that...I'm thinking it will be locked.
Not our problem, as long as we don't participate in name-calling:)

Honey, if we're so compliant (I know you didn't say it, but your quote is shorter and you seem to agree:)), why didn't we jump in bed with the British over Iraq?

Since when do the children in a relationship start running the show anyway? I think the metaphor could use some work...


Why are you always on the defense? I thought it was a neat way of saying that Canada was more liberal, behaved,not trouble makers (so to speak), while the US was more of a hot head, lets go to war, gay marriage is bad, ect. I was complimenting Canada........ you know, not everyone here in the US approves of how our govt works. I sure as hell dont. So dont be so quick to jump up someones ass.

I love Canada but I wish it had a better military so that it could crush the US. That's why you suck.

Sigh. You 'bash' Canada and most Candians by implying that we are simply meddlesome, then offering as an sarcastic solution that the US just turn over everything to Canada if we're sooooo much smarter than you....you are purposely being silly. If you see something specific that is lacking in Canada (so go ahead and talk about our opinons of you if you wish), then please offer a real analysis, and real solutions to the problem, or at the very least, discuss the issue without falling back on your usual attack procedures.

Quit saying, well so and so does this, so I will too. No one is asking you to follow the leader down the road of eternal insult-hurling. You wanted a thread about Canadian problems, and you got it. Now contribute in a useful way.
1. I just posted that I don't know of any major problems Canada has.

2. I just posted that I like Canada and most Canadians.

3. Nothing I have said in this thread, or as far as I know, any other thread today, was intended to be "insult-hurling." If you took anything I said as such, I'm sorry.

4. I don't recall asking for any thread in particular and especially not one about Canada.

5. Please point out where I have attacked anyone's Country or any individual in particular so I may apologize if such is warranted.

So dont be so quick to jump up someones ass.


Ooh, I'd pay to see that.

Ooh, I'd pay to see that.


youd pay just to see ass period.

They are at a lower percentage not just lower absolute
They have less population density = less murder. The murder percentage in the U.S. is lower in the country than in the cities.

I love Canada but I wish it had a better military so that it could crush the US. That's why you suck.

Yeah, just think what these (http://www.hsus.org/web-files/Seals_Sealions/184x265_seal_clubbing.jpg) people could do with guns. Nah, they could invade us and crush us with their clubs.

!!?? Why are you blaming prudishness on feminists? Do you really think it is the feminists in Canada who oppose gay marriage? We tend to be the LESS prudish group, because we don't to stay back in the stone ages.

And some feminists are the biggest would-be censors of porn and hate any attempt to celebrate physical beauty, whether male or female.

Why are you always on the defense? I thought it was a neat way of saying that Canada was more liberal, behaved,not trouble makers (so to speak), while the US was more of a hot head, lets go to war, gay marriage is bad, ect. I was complimenting Canada........ you know, not everyone here in the US approves of how our govt works. I sure as hell dont. So dont be so quick to jump up someones ass.
*picture forms...shakes head and lets it go*...Don't take me wrong Peechland...I'm not attacking you or the original poster, I'm finding fault with the analogy. Perhaps that is how YOU see us, but it doesn't really fit, for the reasons I pointed out. If you want to compare the US and Canada to children, the metaphor needs to take into account the very real change of roles between our two countries and our founding country.

If I seem like I'm on the defensive, it is simply because I tend to get picky about silly things, like spelling, grammar, bad metaphors...that's the English teacher in me, and I can't help it. In other cases where I am 'on the defensive' it's usually because I'm actually defending something I said. Hence: defence=defensive.

Honey, if we're so compliant (I know you didn't say it, but your quote is shorter and you seem to agree:)), why didn't we jump in bed with the British over Iraq?

Since when do the children in a relationship start running the show anyway? I think the metaphor could use some work...

Let's see... both largely British colonies... so... yep, 'children' works so far...

And, these 'children' have lived 'away from home' for... well, quite a while now... so they SHOULD be running their own lives...

Looks okay to me.

Assuming that the two children are two enormous rocky children, with trees growing out of them.

youd pay just to see ass period.

Nah, it's usually given to me for free. ;)

I love Canada but I wish it had a better military so that it could crush the US. That's why you suck.
The problem is, even with a kick-ass army, we probably wouldn't WANT to crush the US. It's not polite:)

And some feminists are the biggest would-be censors of porn and hate any attempt to celebrate physical beauty, whether male or female.

Wow you actually mixed porn and physical beauty.

Wow you actually mixed porn and physical beauty.

Porn is both a way to arouse sexual feelings and to celebrate physical beauty, and it is protected by the right to free speech. It's a beautiful expression of sexuality, which is itself natural and wholesome in all forms involving consenting adults.

*picture forms...shakes head and lets it go*...Don't take me wrong Peechland...I'm not attacking you or the original poster, I'm finding fault with the analogy. Perhaps that is how YOU see us, but it doesn't really fit, for the reasons I pointed out. If you want to compare the US and Canada to children, the metaphor needs to take into account the very real change of roles between our two countries and our founding country.

If I seem like I'm on the defensive, it is simply because I tend to get picky about silly things, like spelling, grammar, bad metaphors...that's the English teacher in me, and I can't help it. In other cases where I am 'on the defensive' it's usually because I'm actually defending something I said. Hence: defence=defensive.

Well I havent said anything that would require you to defend yourself. The members here at NS arent your students, so take a break from class, teach. Last time I checked, Max wasnt handing our report cards.


If youd stop looking for an argument so often, you might find that some of us actually agree with most of what you have to say.

2x4s are not exactly manufactured goods. When you start looking at things like, where your chipboard furniture (like entertainment systems and shelving units) come from, it probably isn't Canada. How much of your wood products in your home were manufactured in Canada? I'm talking tables, chairs, wooden bed frames, mirror frames, etc, etc.


again most wood products are BUILDING MATERIALS, you have to manufacture those, the value of these products is MUCH greater.

They have less population density = less murder. The murder percentage in the U.S. is lower in the country than in the cities.
Here are some statistics for Toronto http://www.4torontoinfo.com/city_of_toronto.asp pop around 2.5 million. Do you have comparative statistics for similarly populated cities in the US?

Porn is both a way to arouse sexual feelings and to celebrate physical beauty, and it is protected by the right to free speech. It's a beautiful expression of sexuality, which is itself natural and wholesome in all forms involving consenting adults.

You didn't hear me speak against it.

For me physical beauty is a woman dressed to the hilt struting down the street. Eyes that you can stair at forever, A smile to die for....

Porn is carnal. It's not about love making. It's fucking.

Never mind the fact that most women are not arroused by it. ;)

You didn't hear me speak against it.

For me physical beauty is a woman dressed to the hilt struting down the street. Eyes that you can stair at forever, A smile to die for....

Porn is carnal. It's not about love making. It's fucking.

Never mind the fact that most women are not arroused by it. ;)

I'm more inclined to agree with the Greeks. They considered the whole body, nude, to be the height of beauty.

1. I just posted that I don't know of any major problems Canada has.
It doesn't have to be major...look, I'm willing to point out some flaws for you to run with and discuss if you'd like. I just wonder why you would keep asking for a thread like this and then not use it. Does it not count because I started it instead of Zepp?

2. I just posted that I like Canada and most Canadians.


3. Nothing I have said in this thread, or as far as I know, any other thread today, was intended to be "insult-hurling." If you took anything I said as such, I'm sorry.
Oh, when I talked about insult-hurling, it wasn't a veiled reference to you. In fact, I haven't seen any yet. I was just replying to Peechland's post, kind of trying to say that I don't think this thread HAS to be flame-bait...

4. I don't recall asking for any thread in particular and especially not one about Canada.
I admit, it might be a stretch, and perhaps you ONLY meant Zep, but in the following:

You know, perhaps you should find something about Canada you can talk about. It gets really tiresome when all you ever do is rant on and on about the US. It makes me wonder just what sort of secret agenda you have.

Here's a challenge for you: find at least one good thing to say about the US, and at least one thing where Canada can improve.
you suggest that you would like to hear about problems in Canada for a change (as well as something positive about the US, which that thread actually was...). So, here it is. I've already explained why I for one, often bring up US examples to introduce issues...but if you really want, we can use Canadian examples. The point being, Zep is no more bashing the US by bringing up US examples than you are bashing Canada by never discussing us:(

Your original post, where you talked about surrendering to Canada, seemd flippant, non-constructive, and while falling shy of 'bashing' at the very least was not a serious suggestion on your part. So let's be serioius...if you're tired of US negativity, join us in some Canadian navel-gazing!

Here are some statistics for Toronto http://www.4torontoinfo.com/city_of_toronto.asp pop around 2.5 million. Do you have comparative statistics for similarly populated cities in the US?

are those stats for metropolitan (greater) Toronto? Because I thought that the city of Toronto has fewer than a million people.

Point? Probably the city's murder rate is higher than that of the whole metropolitan area of Toronto.

are those stats for metropolitan (greater) Toronto? Because I thought that the city of Toronto has fewer than a million people.

Point? Probably the city's murder rate is higher than that of the whole metropolitan area of Toronto.

I highly doubt the murder rate for the inner core approaches the rates of any major USA city, let alone crapholes like detroit or washington DC

Well I havent said anything that would require you to defend yourself. The members here at NS arent your students, so take a break from class, teach. Last time I checked, Max wasnt handing our report cards.


If youd stop looking for an argument so often, you might find that some of us actually agree with most of what you have to say.
Peechland, if you don't want to argue semantics, then don't. There are a few posters here with who I often converse, and who I mostly agree with, but the semantics need to get worked on before we reach consensus. I'm not teaching, I'm not lecturing, I'm pointing things out. You aren't required to discuss it if you aren't interested. I'm simply explaining WHY I do it. To me, language is very important. It's how I frame and construct my thoughts.

I'm not looking just for agreement. I'm looking for dicussion. You dont have to agree with absolutely everything that someone says...nor with how they say it. When I defend my position, it is not defensiveness in the sense that I am taking it personally and getting offended. I am defending my position, using words that sometimes need refining. As are others. Sometimes clarification is needed to make meaning clear. If I come across as sarcastic, well, sometimes I am, and sometimes I'm not. It's hard to tell when you're writing and not conversing face to face.

That's the way I am. If it seems defensive to you, well, I've just explained why it isn't meant that way, but I can't alter your perception of my posts.

are those stats for metropolitan (greater) Toronto? Because I thought that the city of Toronto has fewer than a million people.

Point? Probably the city's murder rate is higher than that of the whole metropolitan area of Toronto.
The city of Toronto has 2.5 million people. The Greater Toronto Area, or GTA as it's affectionately known, has closer to 5 million.

I understand these numbers are for the city only.

again most wood products are BUILDING MATERIALS, you have to manufacture those, the value of these products is MUCH greater.
But worth less than the completed product.

Let me put it this way:

Tree....lumber...table.

Which is worth more? We do the first two, why not more of the third?

And some feminists are the biggest would-be censors of porn and hate any attempt to celebrate physical beauty, whether male or female.
But is that out of prudishness? Or because they find the practice exploitative? Some feminists are all for porn, some are not. Some of every group do some of everything. Just don't blame us feminists when many of our non-feminist counterparts include people of prudish persuasion too:)

I live right smack dab in the core of the city of Toronto. Yes, there is crime here. Is it worse in the core than in the GTA? I'm not convinced - there's at least as many people living in the rest of the GTA as there are people living downtown, with at least another million living just outside the GTA in suburban development like Brampton, Mississauga, Ajax, Whitby, etc.

That's a lot of people. What I perceive as the biggest problem are crimes perpetrated with the use of a firearm. Where are those coming to Toronto from? Why from upstate and western New York state, of course. That's our trouble - American guns on the streets of our Canadian cities.

Let's see... both largely British colonies... so... yep, 'children' works so far...

And, these 'children' have lived 'away from home' for... well, quite a while now... so they SHOULD be running their own lives...

Looks okay to me.
But what about the "more compliant daughter"? That would suggest that the "parent", Britain, was the one who wanted its "children" to go to war with Iraq, whereas I thought this was a US initiative, that the British followed along with. The metaphor then should be more directed at Canada as the sibling that didn't want to go along with the family plan...and so on...

Perhaps something like, "America is Britannia's eldest, cynical and more independent child, while Canada is the younger, clinging yet distant child who doesn't like to play with its elder sibling. Canada gets bullied by America, but responds passive-agressively, while Britannia looks on in confusion at the rift between the two, quite proud of the agressive streak in the one, and disappointed by the mildness of the other".

You likey?

But is that out of prudishness? Or because they find the practice exploitative? Some feminists are all for porn, some are not. Some of every group do some of everything. Just don't blame us feminists when many of our non-feminist counterparts include people of prudish persuasion too:)

The Religious Right uses the same silly argument- exploitation. So do the Communists about capitalism. Look, everything and everyone is exploited in some way or another by something. I am used by people for various things. I use them back. It's the way of things. It's part of life. Resources are meant to be exploited, and everything that can be used is a resource. That doesn't that I don't value women. Quite the contrary. I just honestly recognize that much of my value for them, and them for me, is selfish by nature, and there is nothing wrong about that. Everyone evaluates things on a partly selfish basis. Some are just less selfish than others.

Peechland, if you don't want to argue semantics, then don't. There are a few posters here with who I often converse, and who I mostly agree with, but the semantics need to get worked on before we reach consensus. I'm not teaching, I'm not lecturing, I'm pointing things out. You aren't required to discuss it if you aren't interested. I'm simply explaining WHY I do it. To me, language is very important. It's how I frame and construct my thoughts.

I'm not looking just for agreement. I'm looking for dicussion. You dont have to agree with absolutely everything that someone says...nor with how they say it. When I defend my position, it is not defensiveness in the sense that I am taking it personally and getting offended. I am defending my position, using words that sometimes need refining. As are others. Sometimes clarification is needed to make meaning clear. If I come across as sarcastic, well, sometimes I am, and sometimes I'm not. It's hard to tell when you're writing and not conversing face to face.

That's the way I am. If it seems defensive to you, well, I've just explained why it isn't meant that way, but I can't alter your perception of my posts.

We can go back and forth all day long if you like. The point is, your condesending remarks arent necessary and neither is your self righteous attitude toward myself and other members. And if you were simply looking for discussion, then you would have labeled your thread differently. I'm done.


back to topic:
I think that the manner in which the US handles some of its issues is displeasing to people, not only from Canada, but all around the world. I see a lot of people down here in my neck of the woods(Ga), who seem to be stuck in the stone ages still. My step brother is gay and he was badly beaten up one time by "some good old boys"....just because he was a ''Fag". The men who beat him up were self proclaimed "God fearing, patriotic supporters" who said that this country wasnt made for gays.They received probation, no jail time......that ought to show them ay? :rolleyes:

I live right smack dab in the core of the city of Toronto. Yes, there is crime here. Is it worse in the core than in the GTA? I'm not convinced - there's at least as many people living in the rest of the GTA as there are people living downtown, with at least another million living just outside the GTA in suburban development like Brampton, Mississauga, Ajax, Whitby, etc.

That's a lot of people. What I perceive as the biggest problem are crimes perpetrated with the use of a firearm. Where are those coming to Toronto from? Why from upstate and western New York state, of course. That's our trouble - American guns on the streets of our Canadian cities.

didnt u say you quit?

It doesn't have to be major...look, I'm willing to point out some flaws for you to run with and discuss if you'd like. I just wonder why you would keep asking for a thread like this and then not use it. Does it not count because I started it instead of Zepp?
Sinuhue, please check your telegrams at your earliest convenience as I have a private response to this. Thank you.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
Founder and Delegate of The Realm of Ambrosia

...


Sinuhue and Peechland: The both of you kindly clam down. Thank you.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator

I think that the manner in which the US handles some of its issues is displeasing to people, not only from Canada, but all around the world. I see a lot of people down here in my neck of the woods(Ga), who seem to be stuck in the stone ages still. My step brother is gay and he was badly beaten up one time by "some good old boys"....just because he was a ''Fag". The men who beat him up were self proclaimed "God fearing, patriotic supporters" who said that this country wasnt made for gays.They received probation, no jail time......that ought to show them ay? :rolleyes:
Yes, we all know that Canadian methods of law enforcement are so much better than those in the US.
http://www.missingpeople.net/vancouverpolicereapgrislycluesmar_26,_2002.htm

It was nice of the RCMP to wait until 27 women had actually been killed BEFORE they opened an investigation into the possibility that it was homicide (simple homicide - it took longer to agree that they were dealing with a serial killer).

But what about the "more compliant daughter"? That would suggest that the "parent", Britain, was the one who wanted its "children" to go to war with Iraq, whereas I thought this was a US initiative, that the British followed along with. The metaphor then should be more directed at Canada as the sibling that didn't want to go along with the family plan...and so on...

Perhaps something like, "America is Britannia's eldest, cynical and more independent child, while Canada is the younger, clinging yet distant child who doesn't like to play with its elder sibling. Canada gets bullied by America, but responds passive-agressively, while Britannia looks on in confusion at the rift between the two, quite proud of the agressive streak in the one, and disappointed by the mildness of the other".

You likey?

I think it justifies the need (if there is one), for Canada to feel like the victim, but I don't think it really has any more relevence than the previous version.

'Britannia' doesn't care. 'Britannia' thinks (along with most of the rest of the world) that the US has become so insular, that it no longer feels the need to play with the other children.

'Britannia' thinks that Canada is BASICALLY, a slightly 'Frencher' version of the US.

The US and Canada have cooked up a little rivalry with each other... Canada accuses the US of being too violent, the US accuses Canada of being too passive.

'Britannia' basically doesn't care, I'm afraid.

(Perhaps, 'compliant' refers to issues like trade and immigration?)

The Religious Right uses the same silly argument- exploitation. So do the Communists about capitalism. Look, everything and everyone is exploited in some way or another by something. I am used by people for various things. I use them back. It's the way of things. It's part of life. Resources are meant to be exploited, and everything that can be used is a resource. That doesn't that I don't value women. Quite the contrary. I just honestly recognize that much of my value for them, and them for me, is selfish by nature, and there is nothing wrong about that. Everyone evaluates things on a partly selfish basis. Some are just less selfish than others.
Exploitation is a silly argument?

Exploitation may be an argument used to cover up more deep-seated opinions about the human body (focusing on the original topic of porn here), but it still is a valid (if not truthful in some cases) argument.

Anyway. The feminists I know consider porn exploitative for the following reasons:

1) It is almsot entirely aimed at men, with very little porn made for women. Women are splashed all over magazines and movies as sex objects, while men are simply the one's taking advantage of the 'object'. It fuels the underlying stereotypes that women are sluts and men studs for doing the same things sexually. Let's have some good, non-silicone porn with a little bit of a plot to engage women, damn it!

2) It is a low-paying (for the majority of participants), often dangerous occupation in terms of the transfer of STDs...as some companies require regular testing, while others don't.

3) Some porn is produce using coerced participation. Girls or boys sold by their families or by trafickers. We need to make sure that this kind of porn isn't profitable.

And so on. Banning porn outright is usually not the topic amongst feminists...changing it so it is more woman-friendly (in terms of health, respect and watchability:)) is.

In any case, the whole point of this was that you singled out feminists, and I don't think you meant to. Some are prudes, and some want some good porn of their own. Same with any group. The exploitation argument isn't just smokescreen.

Makes you wonder who is being exploited.

For every one woman in a porn film having sex and being paid (however meagerly) for it, there are thousands of men out there who paid 20 to 40 dollars for that DVD and are holding their dicks in their hand.

Thousands and thousands of guys... makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Exploitation is a silly argument?

Exploitation may be an argument used to cover up more deep-seated opinions about the human body (focusing on the original topic of porn here), but it still is a valid (if not truthful in some cases) argument.

Anyway. The feminists I know consider porn exploitative for the following reasons:

1) It is almsot entirely aimed at men, with very little porn made for women. Women are splashed all over magazines and movies as sex objects, while men are simply the one's taking advantage of the 'object'. It fuels the underlying stereotypes that women are sluts and men studs for doing the same things sexually. Let's have some good, non-silicone porn with a little bit of a plot to engage women, damn it!

2) It is a low-paying (for the majority of participants), often dangerous occupation in terms of the transfer of STDs...as some companies require regular testing, while others don't.

3) Some porn is produce using coerced participation. Girls or boys sold by their families or by trafickers. We need to make sure that this kind of porn isn't profitable.

And so on. Banning porn outright is usually not the topic amongst feminists...changing it so it is more woman-friendly (in terms of health, respect and watchability:)) is.

In any case, the whole point of this was that you singled out feminists, and I don't think you meant to. Some are prudes, and some want some good porn of their own. Same with any group. The exploitation argument isn't just smokescreen.

Like I said, people are objects to each other in many ways. Some rich men are "money objects" to golddiggers. As for the type of porn, that will exist in some form, while others will emerge, and are emerging, according to demand. If you want more "woman-friendly" porn, buy it. Sexuality is a natural phenomenon. It is here to stay. Live and let live. Those who want a certain type of porn will buy it. The only government interference I favor is against the forced enslavement of people, whatever their age.

back to topic:
I think that the manner in which the US handles some of its issues is displeasing to people, not only from Canada, but all around the world. I see a lot of people down here in my neck of the woods(Ga), who seem to be stuck in the stone ages still. My step brother is gay and he was badly beaten up one time by "some good old boys"....just because he was a ''Fag". The men who beat him up were self proclaimed "God fearing, patriotic supporters" who said that this country wasnt made for gays.They received probation, no jail time......that ought to show them ay? :rolleyes:
The same sort of thing happens in Canada unfortunately, yet because of the gay marriage issue, we are seen as overall being more accepting. Well some are, some aren't and I think that is the same in the US. Your recent administration has coloured international views a lot, though hopefully most people realise that it doesn't necessarily mean all Americans support it. I'd say the same about things like gay marriage in Canada. Our current government supports it, but there is quite a bit of vocal opposition. Let's see how things change in a few years in both our countries.

Thousands and thousands of guys... makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Wonder what?

I used to be a partner in a video post-production studio...we were barely getting by, and luckily for us, we had someone renting our suite to edit who was making those late-night infomercials for 'adults-only' sex phone lines. You know, the ones with bikini-clad women cavorting in slow motion on carribean beaches?

Well, myself and the other two partners had a status meeting wherein this client came up - and my reaction was to say, 'Great! How can we keep this client, or possibly attract similar business?'. I was shocked when my partners got upset with this, saying that this was a slippery slope to editing porno movies. I said, 'well...if it keeps the bills paid...then sure, why not?' I was then subjected to a histrionic outburst about how pornography destroys lives and families and children and puppy dogs, etc. I said ok then, we won't touch porn - but that these infomercials, tacky and tasteless as they may be, aren't in fact porn. I was told that if we didn't get rid of this client, that it was only a matter of time before we were approached to edit snuff films or kiddy porn...I left the meeting rather pissed off, in the end.

And my business partners gave me the heave-ho a couple of months later...and have been running in the red ever since, not having found one consistent client since then.

What's this have to do with the matter at hand? Not much really...I just felt like sharing.

The same sort of thing happens in Canada unfortunately, yet because of the gay marriage issue, we are seen as overall being more accepting. Well some are, some aren't and I think that is the same in the US. Your recent administration has coloured international views a lot, though hopefully most people realise that it doesn't necessarily mean all Americans support it. I'd say the same about things like gay marriage in Canada. Our current government supports it, but there is quite a bit of vocal opposition. Let's see how things change in a few years in both our countries.


Something else that bugs me, why is it they will allow a homosexual to adopt and in some cases, a homosexual couple to adopt yet not marry? If they are allowed to love and care for a child, why can they not unite as a family in civil union or marriage? I know a couple who adopted a young child and they are the best parents ever. I cant understand how two people who want to be together and love each other is such an abomination.

crap....I'm off topic arent I?

btw- I'll be visiting Canada this year. My best friend went and she says they have some yummy potato chip flavors that we dont have down here! Any suggestions on where to go and what to see? (near the BC side)

Yes, we all know that Canadian methods of law enforcement are so much better than those in the US.
http://www.missingpeople.net/vancouverpolicereapgrislycluesmar_26,_2002.htm

It was nice of the RCMP to wait until 27 women had actually been killed BEFORE they opened an investigation into the possibility that it was homicide (simple homicide - it took longer to agree that they were dealing with a serial killer).
Ay, don't even get me started on that issue...the RCMP (and municipal police) are notorious for not responding promptly to domestic violence too...especially if the people involved are native or poor...

Can you imagine what would have happened in the US if the Neil Stonechild case had happened to a black youth there? My god, we'd be talking riots, not a pathetic 'internal review' and suspension WITH PAY...

Sometimes our politeness is a great way to cover up great wrongs.

I think it justifies the need (if there is one), for Canada to feel like the victim, but I don't think it really has any more relevence than the previous version.

'Britannia' doesn't care. 'Britannia' thinks (along with most of the rest of the world) that the US has become so insular, that it no longer feels the need to play with the other children.

'Britannia' thinks that Canada is BASICALLY, a slightly 'Frencher' version of the US.

The US and Canada have cooked up a little rivalry with each other... Canada accuses the US of being too violent, the US accuses Canada of being too passive.

'Britannia' basically doesn't care, I'm afraid.

(Perhaps, 'compliant' refers to issues like trade and immigration?)
Hmmmm...that compliant would still suggest compliant to Britannia's wishes...

I agree the rivalry is cooked up...most rivalries are:)

Does Britannia really not care? That bothers me for some undefined, needing my mommy kind of way...not even the Queen? We kept her as our ultimate head of state...

I'm reminded of the difference between the independence of the US versus our 'independence'.

The US: We're independent, so what are you going to do about it?
Canada: But we dont' WANT to be independent...really we don't....not yet...

*Britannia pries our hands off her skirts...*

Like I said, people are objects to each other in many ways. Some rich men are "money objects" to golddiggers. As for the type of porn, that will exist in some form, while others will emerge, and are emerging, according to demand. If you want more "woman-friendly" porn, buy it. Sexuality is a natural phenomenon. It is here to stay. Live and let live. Those who want a certain type of porn will buy it. The only government interference I favor is against the forced enslavement of people, whatever their age.
I can agree with that. But that's because I'm not a prude. Even though I'ma feminist :p

I was then subjected to a histrionic outburst about how pornography destroys lives and families and children and puppy dogs,
Hehehehehheheeee...

Porn is both a way to arouse sexual feelings and to celebrate physical beauty, and it is protected by the right to free speech. It's a beautiful expression of sexuality, which is itself natural and wholesome in all forms involving consenting adults.

I'll agree that porn can arouse sexual feelings, but as far as celebrating physical beauty? I don't agree. I may not be an expert on porn, but from what I have seen of it, it is all about two people copulating. The men are chosen for their large members and semi-toned bodies, NOT for their physical beauty. And the women seem to be all fake boobs, overly made-up faces, bleached hair and fake nails.

As for the magazines that supposedly celebrate the beauty of women, I can sum it up in one word: Airbrushing. It's not about celebrating anything, but rather manufacturing an ideal image which does not celebrate the beauty of a natural woman.

I'm not a feminist. I enjoy watching porn occasionally, and I certainly don't want it banned. I also don't want any bible thumpers or zealots without a sex life of their own to interfere with mine. Porn has it's place, but it definitely doesn't celebrate women. In fact, I would be willing to go so far as to say that any male who learns about the female body from porn is going to have a hard time being satisfied with a real woman and learning how to please her.

Something else that bugs me, why is it they will allow a homosexual to adopt and in some cases, a homosexual couple to adopt yet not marry? If they are allowed to love and care for a child, why can they not unite as a family in civil union or marriage? I know a couple who adopted a young child and they are the best parents ever. I cant understand how two people who want to be together and love each other is such an abomination.

crap....I'm off topic arent I?

btw- I'll be visiting Canada this year. My best friend went and she says they have some yummy potato chip flavors that we dont have down here! Any suggestions on where to go and what to see? (near the BC side)
No, I don't think it's off topic...it's an issue that is very hot right now in both our countries, and we're dealing with it in different ways, so it's good to compare notes, as it were.

I agree, it makes no sense. Why not let them adopt AND marry...it's just reactionary. Frankly, I think divorce is more of a threat to 'traditional marriage' than two guys wanting to get hitched...but that's just my opinion. By the way, I'm FOR divorce:)

No, I don't think it's off topic...it's an issue that is very hot right now in both our countries, and we're dealing with it in different ways, so it's good to compare notes, as it were.

I agree, it makes no sense. Why not let them adopt AND marry...it's just reactionary. Frankly, I think divorce is more of a threat to 'traditional marriage' than two guys wanting to get hitched...but that's just my opinion. By the way, I'm FOR divorce:)


I also agree...heterosexuals seem more likely to divorce than the homosexual ones. Well the ones I know anyway! My entire family on both sides is divorced. You need charts and graphs at the family reunion just to keep up with whos who.

me: "Thats your ex,step, half, cousin- in- law on my step mothers side."

my daughter: "HUH??"

Things about Canada that could be improved:

(Caveat: I will guarantee you that not every Canadian will agree with this assessment.)

1. Clean up organized crime. The RCMP need the recruits, the funding, the infrastructure, and the morale to take down motorcycle gangs like the Hells Angels, ethnic gangs like the IndoCanadian and Vietnamese gangs in Vancouver, and the mafia-style gangs like the Russians and the Italians. Especially in BC and Quebec, we’re fricking overrun with them. Here in BC, the police are turning up links between our politicians and their aides and organized crime. Damn man, we’ve got to put a stop to it.

2. As Sinuhue said, Canada’s treatment of our aboriginals is despicable. There have been improvements, such as self-government, reparations of abuse from residential schools, negotiations on land claims, but more should be done. In our favour, there are some excellent trial schools in the Yukon that try to merge traditional native teachings with modern educational standards, and are apparently doing pretty well. Perhaps this can be used as a model elsewhere.

3. Speaking of education, I’d like to see federal standards for public education. Right now, kids from different provinces are learning things at different speeds, and kids who move from one province to another will find that they are grades ahead in one subject and grades behind in another. That being said, a federal curriculum needs to have leeway in it, so that provinces will have room to teach about local issues and history (etc) as well.

4. On another education topic, kids with special needs and learning disabilities need to be identified early, so they can get the help they need to be successful.

5. On a crime note, the justice system needs to recognize the value of everyone, including aboriginal women or drug users who work as prostitutes. It is unspeakably wrong for a police force to ignore a serial killer who targets that population. However, I recognize that homeless people, prostitutes and drug users often go off the radar for reasons other than their untimely deaths by murder, and that they are a difficult population to track and protect. Still, Pickton should have been stopped long, long ago – and the Edmonton serial killer is still at large.

6. We need to fund our military better, replace aging equipment, increase the size of our military, and offer our soldiers better pay. That or limit the number of places we send our guys too. We’re overstretched and over utilized for our numbers. I’ve got no complaints about the training our soldiers receive though.

7. I’d like to see more federal oversight over healthcare, not less. We’ve got some awesome provincial programs out there that should not be limited to just one province. And we’ve got some boner programs that suck really bad that need to be replaced by a more successful program ASAP. When the feds and the provinces get together to talk about health care problems, all they go on about is money and protectionism. Well, goddamn it, if the feds have identified problem areas in the provinces, they should attach strings to the transfer payments. Too often I’ve seen provinces refuse to fix problems because of ideology – they take federal money and spend it on some other pet project instead.

8. Child poverty. We’re not the worst for this amongst industrialized nations, but geez, the feds promised to eradicate it by 2000, and not unexpectedly it’s still an issue.

9. Poverty and homelessness in general. We need to attack root causes and provide affordable housing.

10. Kyoto. Some concrete plans, please. I’m begging you. Why not take a page from Layton’s campaign and require all new buildings to meet environmental standards – low flow toilets, ‘green’ lighting, solar panels to help generate some of the building’s power requirements. New commercial buildings could be required to provide bicycle storage and showers, and hey, maybe even a gym. (Many municipalities have laws like this already.) Oh, yeah, we got garbage bins and recycling bins – what about compost bins for businesses, condos, and apartment buildings? Long-lasting environmentally friendly street lighting and LEDs for stop lights. And give more gas tax money to municipalities to improve their public transit systems.

11. There’s more, but none of us have all day.

Beautiful. And I agree.

9. Poverty and homelessness in general. We need to attack root causes and provide affordable housing.


Housing projects and welfare programs in the United States have done far, far more to destroy the African-American family (along with the War on Drugs) than any act by the KKK in history.

Aid the poor, yes. But not by just building a housing project and putting them on the dole. I've seen the effects first-hand - there has to be a better way.

btw- I'll be visiting Canada this year. My best friend went and she says they have some yummy potato chip flavors that we dont have down here! Any suggestions on where to go and what to see? (near the BC side)

What parts of BC? Both Vancouver and Victoria are awesome, and making tourists happy is big business there. If you are looking for cultural stuff, Vancouver has a lot of museums and art galleries, the Science Centre, Chinatown, Gastown, planetarium, Capilano Bridge, Vancouver Aquarium, Stanley Park, and so on. Victoria has Buchart Gardens (breathtaking fireworks displays every Saturday evening in the summer - and the flowers of course), Royal BC Museum, Craigdarroch Castle, ghost tours (fun!), old cemetaries, and wax museums, undersea gardens, horse drawn tours etc. Both places have plenty of beachs, and also nude beaches.

There is a scenic train that takes you north of Victoria to Nanaimo, Campbell River, etc. Nanaimo has bungie jumping if you are into that.

Further north into the interior, there is Okanogan Lake, and all the cities around it. Best during cherry season. :) and especially good if you are into wine tasting or water skiing.

If you are here in the winter, BC has hundreds of good ski resorts.

Further north, there are lots of camping and hunting opportunities, and lots of Americans like to do the Alaska Highway (Al-Can Highway) from Dawson Creek to Fairbanks. And if you want to do that, stop in Barkerville on your way north to see the recreation of Billy Barker's gold rush town and pan for gold.

Speaking of camping, if you are near the rockies, go to Banff and Jasper. Or the hot springs. Or just drive the scenic route between Banff and Jasper. Beautiful scenery and lots of wildlife.

Housing projects and welfare programs in the United States have done far, far more to destroy the African-American family (along with the War on Drugs) than any act by the KKK in history.

Aid the poor, yes. But not by just building a housing project and putting them on the dole. I've seen the effects first-hand - there has to be a better way.

Well, hopefully we can learn from the mistakes of others. Affordable housing does not have to lead to ghettos. And attacking root causes of poverty and homelessness (like drug and alcohol abuse, for example) should help too.

Hmmmm...that compliant would still suggest compliant to Britannia's wishes...

I agree the rivalry is cooked up...most rivalries are:)

Does Britannia really not care? That bothers me for some undefined, needing my mommy kind of way...not even the Queen? We kept her as our ultimate head of state...

I'm reminded of the difference between the independence of the US versus our 'independence'.

The US: We're independent, so what are you going to do about it?
Canada: But we dont' WANT to be independent...really we don't....not yet...

*Britannia pries our hands off her skirts...*

It's not that 'Britannia' is eager to shed her offspring or anything... it's more a matter of being realistic.

'Britannia' still is the fugurehead for the Commonwealth, which is almost entirely devoid of any real meaning now... except for some people to get tender-hearted feelings of patriotism, or lost empire, I guess.

It IS nice that the Commonwealth nations SEEM to get along... and I think, for the most part... the 'children' are now more of friends... certainly Australia and Canada.

I think, to be realistic, 'Britannia' looks at the US with a kind of sideways look, because of the brash, abrasive and overly pious nature which the US exhibits... (thanks to it's politicians). Perhaps, the US now reminds 'Britannia' of her empire days - only now, SHE has moved on, to talking to people, rather than invading them,if they look at her crosseyed.

Regarding independence... 'Britannia' is secretly giggling in her sleeves about 'independence' in the US. First: she thinks it's hilarious that a small minority declared independence against the massive majority wishes... most of the settlers didn't want it. Second: The 'excuse' for independence was taxation without representation... and yet, Federal taxes... Third: King George allowed 'America' to separate, because he thought it was a small island of the coast of France. Good old Mad King George.

What parts of BC? Both Vancouver and Victoria are awesome, and making tourists happy is big business there. If you are looking for cultural stuff, Vancouver has a lot of museums and art galleries, the Science Centre, Chinatown, Gastown, planetarium, Capilano Bridge, Vancouver Aquarium, Stanley Park, and so on. Victoria has Buchart Gardens (breathtaking fireworks displays every Saturday evening in the summer - and the flowers of course), Royal BC Museum, Craigdarroch Castle, ghost tours (fun!), old cemetaries, and wax museums, undersea gardens, horse drawn tours etc. Both places have plenty of beachs, and also nude beaches.

There is a scenic train that takes you north of Victoria to Nanaimo, Campbell River, etc. Nanaimo has bungie jumping if you are into that.

Further north into the interior, there is Okanogan Lake, and all the cities around it. Best during cherry season. :) and especially good if you are into wine tasting or water skiing.

If you are here in the winter, BC has hundreds of good ski resorts.

Further north, there are lots of camping and hunting opportunities, and lots of Americans like to do the Alaska Highway (Al-Can Highway) from Dawson Creek to Fairbanks. And if you want to do that, stop in Barkerville on your way north to see the recreation of Billy Barker's gold rush town and pan for gold.

Speaking of camping, if you are near the rockies, go to Banff and Jasper. Or the hot springs. Or just drive the scenic route between Banff and Jasper. Beautiful scenery and lots of wildlife.

Thank you much! I dont really know where we are going. We will be in Oregon and want to spend a few days in Canada while we are there. Thank you for the information. :)

No, I don't think it's off topic...it's an issue that is very hot right now in both our countries, and we're dealing with it in different ways, so it's good to compare notes, as it were.

I agree, it makes no sense. Why not let them adopt AND marry...it's just reactionary. Frankly, I think divorce is more of a threat to 'traditional marriage' than two guys wanting to get hitched...but that's just my opinion. By the way, I'm FOR divorce:)

How dare you question the 'sanctity of marriage'?

Becuase, of course... the fact that you can get a drive-thru marriage in Vegas, of even get Elvis to marry you... THAT sort of thing is just fine..

Hell, why don't we just surrender to Canada and let them deal with all the issues of being the number one terrorist target in the world

yes, our 6 'terrorist' attacks in the past year sure were scary. 4 or 5 of them were elf, and so weren't really terrorism anyways, and nobody was killed or even injured.

Thank you much! I dont really know where we are going. We will be in Oregon and want to spend a few days in Canada while we are there. Thank you for the information. :)

Ah, well, I recommend Vancouver - and Victoria, if you don't mind ferry rides and lineups. The rest of the areas I talked about would require you to spend a lot of time in your car to get there. The drive would be nice, don't get me wrong, but if you only have a couple of days, checking out Vancouver is a good way to go.

i remember in the NBA all star game in Denver colorado the fans booed the Canadian natonal anthem. I felt sorry for Vince carter because he played with the toranto rapters and they have a cool dinosaur on their logo

Sigh. Where did I "bash" either Canada or most Canadians? What do you want? Should I just say that Canada is the greatest nation on Earth and Canadians should have everything their way? Why is it ok for people like Zepp and Stephie to bash and bash and bash the US, but how friggin' DARE I say anything about Canada or Canadians???

Here is a clue, I subscribe to McLeans magazine. There is a good article in it about America going broke, if that happens, it's more than likely they will take Canada with them. What you don't seem to realize is what Canada does, doesn't really effect any one but Canadians. What America does effects Canada in a huge way because we are your largest trading partner. Our economies are nothing without each other. We have bound ourselves together in so many ways, what the American government does , does have a direct impact on Canada. That is why we are more than an interested party. It's not like we are New Zealand and have no stake in what you do.

Every thing you do can and usually does impact us. Can you not see it from our perspective? Even once? We don't like what is happening, but because America is the super power as you love to point out, we don't get much say in the matter. So yeah, we bitch about what we see as insane or disagree with. It really is that simple. I have many American friends online and in real life. (granted you're not one of them) but none the less, I have not a single problem with most Americans. I do have a problem with the way the current administration is flushing us all down the toilet.

Does it make more sense for you now?

Things about Canada that could be improved:

(Caveat: I will guarantee you that not every Canadian will agree with this assessment.)

1. Clean up organized crime. The RCMP need the recruits, the funding, the infrastructure, and the morale to take down motorcycle gangs like the Hells Angels, ethnic gangs like the IndoCanadian and Vietnamese gangs in Vancouver, and the mafia-style gangs like the Russians and the Italians. Especially in BC and Quebec, we’re fricking overrun with them. Here in BC, the police are turning up links between our politicians and their aides and organized crime. Damn man, we’ve got to put a stop to it.

2. As Sinuhue said, Canada’s treatment of our aboriginals is despicable. There have been improvements, such as self-government, reparations of abuse from residential schools, negotiations on land claims, but more should be done. In our favour, there are some excellent trial schools in the Yukon that try to merge traditional native teachings with modern educational standards, and are apparently doing pretty well. Perhaps this can be used as a model elsewhere.

3. Speaking of education, I’d like to see federal standards for public education. Right now, kids from different provinces are learning things at different speeds, and kids who move from one province to another will find that they are grades ahead in one subject and grades behind in another. That being said, a federal curriculum needs to have leeway in it, so that provinces will have room to teach about local issues and history (etc) as well.

4. On another education topic, kids with special needs and learning disabilities need to be identified early, so they can get the help they need to be successful.

5. On a crime note, the justice system needs to recognize the value of everyone, including aboriginal women or drug users who work as prostitutes. It is unspeakably wrong for a police force to ignore a serial killer who targets that population. However, I recognize that homeless people, prostitutes and drug users often go off the radar for reasons other than their untimely deaths by murder, and that they are a difficult population to track and protect. Still, Pickton should have been stopped long, long ago – and the Edmonton serial killer is still at large.

6. We need to fund our military better, replace aging equipment, increase the size of our military, and offer our soldiers better pay. That or limit the number of places we send our guys too. We’re overstretched and over utilized for our numbers. I’ve got no complaints about the training our soldiers receive though.

7. I’d like to see more federal oversight over healthcare, not less. We’ve got some awesome provincial programs out there that should not be limited to just one province. And we’ve got some boner programs that suck really bad that need to be replaced by a more successful program ASAP. When the feds and the provinces get together to talk about health care problems, all they go on about is money and protectionism. Well, goddamn it, if the feds have identified problem areas in the provinces, they should attach strings to the transfer payments. Too often I’ve seen provinces refuse to fix problems because of ideology – they take federal money and spend it on some other pet project instead.

8. Child poverty. We’re not the worst for this amongst industrialized nations, but geez, the feds promised to eradicate it by 2000, and not unexpectedly it’s still an issue.

9. Poverty and homelessness in general. We need to attack root causes and provide affordable housing.

10. Kyoto. Some concrete plans, please. I’m begging you. Why not take a page from Layton’s campaign and require all new buildings to meet environmental standards – low flow toilets, ‘green’ lighting, solar panels to help generate some of the building’s power requirements. New commercial buildings could be required to provide bicycle storage and showers, and hey, maybe even a gym. (Many municipalities have laws like this already.) Oh, yeah, we got garbage bins and recycling bins – what about compost bins for businesses, condos, and apartment buildings? Long-lasting environmentally friendly street lighting and LEDs for stop lights. And give more gas tax money to municipalities to improve their public transit systems.

11. There’s more, but none of us have all day.


i agree with most of what you said except for federal standards for education, provinces need to have local control over education as the different provinces have different needs and to be quite honest different levels of education.

As for natives give them self government and let them deal with the problems they have

i agree with most of what you said except for federal standards for education, provinces need to have local control over education as the different provinces have different needs and to be quite honest different levels of education.


The reason I disagree with that statement is because the population of Canada is actually quite fluid. The percentage of Canadians who move to other provinces are very high. Our provinces aren't just educating Albertans, Ontarians, Quebécois, etc, they're educating Canadians. That being said, I stil believe (and said in my first post) that even with federal standards, the provinces need leeway to teach about local issues, history, and whatever else. I really feel your concerns could be addressed that way.

Just a question JaytheWise, but were you Jaystan in a former incarnation? You're Albertan, right?

Well, let's see how this one goes. Bash away (try to bring up real issues if you are capable of it though).
The only thing bad about Canada is its anthem.

I like the 1908 version:
O Canada, our heritage, our love
Thy worth we praise all other lands above.
From sea to see throughout their length
From pole to borderland,
At Britain's side, whate'er betide
Unflinchingly we'll stand
With hearts we sing, "God save the King",
Guide then one Empire wide, do we implore,
And prosper Canada from shore to shore.

Just a question JaytheWise, but were you Jaystan in a former incarnation? You're Albertan, right?

I was wondering the same thing. Did Jayastan get deated (I don't see a nation by that name in NS anymore)? And if so, why? I don't remember him doing anything bad.

The only thing bad about Canada is its anthem.

I like the 1908 version:
O Canada, our heritage, our love
Thy worth we praise all other lands above.
From sea to see throughout their length
From pole to borderland,
At Britain's side, whate'er betide
Unflinchingly we'll stand
With hearts we sing, "God save the King",
Guide then one Empire wide, do we implore,
And prosper Canada from shore to shore.
Hey, that's pretty nice...believe it or not, I've never read it!

And by the way, I when you quoted me I read my quote and said, "Did I really say that? It sounds terrible!"

So I apologize to all...that was snarky and uncalled for, no matter what it was in reply to!

I was wondering the same thing.
He is...we've worked that out in another thread:)

I was wondering the same thing.

yup i got dumped as I put on a fake porno website in jest, which umm happened to be the "real" porno site and got dumped.

something about grannies and porn :rolleyes:

Ouch. That sucks. Glad to see you stayed around though.

The reason I disagree with that statement is because the population of Canada is actually quite fluid. The percentage of Canadians who move to other provinces are very high. Our provinces aren't just educating Albertans, Ontarians, Quebécois, etc, they're educating Canadians. That being said, I stil believe (and said in my first post) that even with federal standards, the provinces need leeway to teach about local issues, history, and whatever else. I really feel your concerns could be addressed that way.


Well all provinces do have to conform to a basic level of education. But alberta tends to lead the rest as we do have some private schools but not enough to put a serious hurt on the public system. The private schools here are just enough to kick the public system in the ass to do better and I think it has worked, as we are the best. (in the standard math, science, test we all got and loved ;) )

EDIT: I doubt, alberta would be allowed this "right wing" approach by a federal system. (even though it seems to be working)

double edit: at least the last few "standardized" tests alberta schools did the best...

double edit: at least the last few "standardized" tests alberta schools did the best...
Yeah, standardized exams have major flaws. Anway...

Well all provinces do have to conform to a basic level of education. But alberta tends to lead the rest as we do have some private schools but not enough to put a serious hurt on the public system. The private schools here are just enough to kick the public system in the ass to do better and I think it has worked, as we are the best. (in the standard math, science, test we all got and loved ;) )

EDIT: I doubt, alberta would be allowed this "right wing" approach by a federal system. (even though it seems to be working)

Yeah, and BC was a close second. Thus, why not make the Alberta approach a federal standard, with the leeway for the other provinces to teach local issues? Or take the best parts of programs from every province? (There are a good half dozen ways to do this, these are just suggestions.)

Oh, and what in particular is 'right-wing' about Alberta's approach to education? You have high public standards, the wealthy and middle class aren't abandoning public schools - the only thing 'right-wingish' is that you rely on oil and gas revenues more than provincial and property taxes to fund education. Which is great for provinces with oil reserves, but other provinces have to find other ways. But hey, Alberta isn't trying to run a voucher program or anything.

Apparently it is difficult to keep a Canada-bashing thread alive... :D

I would post something on this in an attempt to be funny but live in fear of Canadian posters. When I see Canadians posting I run and hide on other threads. It is shameful and cowardly but I live to fight another day.

I don't like Canada because the SAY they aren't ruled by Britain, but they have the Queen on the money. That makes me confused.

Why bother?

The National Post (a Canadian newspaper,) has already undertaken the challenge of bashing Canada (http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/comment/story.html?id=d0ee0f9d-2cda-491e-b603-ef6687df8318).

...Canadians constantly bash the US and never say anything bad about their own country...
That Canadians constantly bash the U.S. and never say anything bad about their own country. :D

Yeah, really, I couldn't care. Just wanted to see if this has been done and if a real answer (other than the lame excuse on on the first post) has been answered.

I don't like Canada because the SAY they aren't ruled by Britain, but they have the Queen on the money. That makes me confused.

So... the US is, of course, ruled by some dead guy and a pyramid?

Here is a clue, I subscribe to McLeans magazine. There is a good article in it about America going broke, if that happens, it's more than likely they will take Canada with them. What you don't seem to realize is what Canada does, doesn't really effect any one but Canadians. What America does effects Canada in a huge way because we are your largest trading partner. Our economies are nothing without each other. We have bound ourselves together in so many ways, what the American government does , does have a direct impact on Canada. That is why we are more than an interested party. It's not like we are New Zealand and have no stake in what you do.

Every thing you do can and usually does impact us. Can you not see it from our perspective? Even once? We don't like what is happening, but because America is the super power as you love to point out, we don't get much say in the matter. So yeah, we bitch about what we see as insane or disagree with. It really is that simple. I have many American friends online and in real life. (granted you're not one of them) but none the less, I have not a single problem with most Americans. I do have a problem with the way the current administration is flushing us all down the toilet.

Does it make more sense for you now?
You have a valid point in stating that almost everything the US does impacts Canada. In fact, in this world of instant communication and intertwined economies, virtually everything any nation does affects all other nations in some way.

But to say that "the current administration is flushing us all down the toilet" is the sort of statement that makes me see red. It's one of the gatituitous, "America-bashing" statements that makes many Americans wonder what in the hell is wrong with some of our Canadian neighbors.

And I'm very much aware that neither you nor your husband consider me "a friend," a fact due, I suspect, to my having been in the US military, as well as to my stance in defense of my Country here on NS.

If Canadians are so worried about what the US does, and feel so affected by its policies, and want to have a voice in the matter, then they should apply for statehood.

So... the US is, of course, ruled by some dead guy and a pyramid?


lol.....

*takes GNI's sarcasm stick away*

If Canadians are so worried about what the US does, and feel so affected by its policies, and want to have a voice in the matter, then they should apply for statehood.

No way... the University of Canada Red Leafs and the Canada State Antlers would instantly rule NCAA hockey.

The thread is resurrected...any issues to discuss today?

lol.....

*takes GNI's sarcasm stick away*

Hey! That's mine.. I NEED that!

Did you SEE the post I was responding to? THAT must be sarcasm, surely?

Hey! That's mine.. I NEED that!

Did you SEE the post I was responding to? THAT must be sarcasm, surely?


Yeah I saw. Surely.

Yeah I saw. Surely.

Hey, don't you know it's rude to 'take someone's stick' without even giving them a fluffle?

:fluffle:

You have a valid point in stating that almost everything the US does impacts Canada. In fact, in this world of instant communication and intertwined economies, virtually everything any nation does affects all other nations in some way.

But to say that "the current administration is flushing us all down the toilet" is the sort of statement that makes me see red. It's one of the gatituitous, "America-bashing" statements that makes many Americans wonder what in the hell is wrong with some of our Canadian neighbors.

And I'm very much aware that neither you nor your husband consider me "a friend," a fact due, I suspect, to my having been in the US military, as well as to my stance in defense of my Country here on NS.

I'm happy that you understand on some level. No we don't hate America and no we don't hate you. We are not always happy with the tactics you employ to try and make your point. They are misleading at best and out right dishonest at worse. I believe you believe what you say. I have nothing against any member of the armed services. They are not political scientists, they are just taking orders, I can't have any thing against them, how could I?

I just don't like the way you operate. Maybe you feel the same way about Zep and I. But that is the truth, whether you believe it or not. We say what we do because we fear for our own country. The US is going broke. It's a fact. China is buying up all of your debt, Japan some as well. Bush is spending like there is no tomorrow and our kids will be paying for it for years. You may have grown children, but I have two very young children and this is not the world I want to leave to them. Can you maybe understand that we are not American bashing as much as we are trying to protect our interests (like any country would) and trying to protect our children's future. Is it really so much of a leap for you to understand that?

Allenland, ever heard of "Perfect 10"- there is no airbrushing and there are no fake parts in that mag. I've often thought of starting a magazine celebrating "real women" as you put it. I've looked at alot of porn, by the way, and have no trouble being satisfied by a real woman. I am engaged to one.

Sinuhue, you sound like Camille Paglia, one feminist I do admire.

Eutrusca...check your email. Hi Steph!

Hi Steph!

Hi Zooke :)

Hi Zooke :)

Wish I had time to play, but my boss is a real stickler. She says I have to work to get a paycheck. Party pooper. Catch y'all later. :p

Can you maybe understand that we are not American bashing as much as we are trying to protect our interests (like any country would) and trying to protect our children's future. Is it really so much of a leap for you to understand that?
No, it's not, and I suspect that if you read some of my many non-political posts you would realize that I'm just a TAD more perceptive than you seem to believe.

i don't no if i can really say anything 2 defend eitha way...then again, i am english, and no zilch about the relationship between canada and US.

k-n-o-w

fyi

I know we've had our differences. Especially in the western provinces. We have a serious issue with you and Ontario, but we tend to blame things on you more because of the whole separation issue. I think we can bury the hatchet.

About separation. Please, please reconsider. You might think the US will give you a better deal, or that you can just go it alone, but frankly, WE NEED YOU! Canada without Quebec is just that less quirky and cute. Then we'll only be known for our Albertan rednecks, and do you really want the world to lose that much respect for us? The Americans can't give you what we do...they'll assimilate you, strip you of your language, force you into cowboy hats and make you pledge your allegiance IN ENGLISH! If you go off on your own, it will just leave a big, Quebec- shaped hole in the map of Canada. Wouldn't that look silly? All our under funded schools would have to take scissors to their maps...

Also we'd have to stop printing everything in French and English in retaliation, and how bored would our children be reading their cereal boxes in one language! Plus, you keep us on your toes with all your outrageous demands...our politics without you would consist of the Alliance members yakking about gay marriage, and the liberals looking offended by accusations of corruption.

So reconsider. We like Montreal, and we'd like to keep it Canadian. We won't make any promises about respecting you more, but we will admit that you are worth keeping....and just remember...Bush will just call you cheese-eating surrender monkeys if you leave...

Sinuhue, you sound like Camille Paglia, one feminist I do admire.
Well thanks! For once me being a feminist is ok with someone!

Well thanks! For once me being a feminist is ok with someone!

I have to admit that my image of feminists has been more negative due to the radicals like Andrea Dworkin, who once claimed that all "penetrative sex is rape", and Valerie Solanis of SCUM (Society for Cutting Up Men), both of which put me in mind of Hitler in a skirt (or would Stalin be more fitting?). Feminists like them are what gave the women's movement the epithet (by way of Rush Limbaugh, a former idol of mine) of FemiNAZIs. People like that tend to reinforce a certain negative view of feminism even among Libertarians like me. However, in all fairness, I do recognize that there are feminists who actually in favor of equality and not blind hatred of men.

I know we've had our differences. Especially in the western provinces. We have a serious issue with you and Ontario, but we tend to blame things on you more because of the whole separation issue. I think we can bury the hatchet.

About separation. Please, please reconsider. You might think the US will give you a better deal, or that you can just go it alone, but frankly, WE NEED YOU! Canada without Quebec is just that less quirky and cute. Then we'll only be known for our Albertan rednecks, and do you really want the world to lose that much respect for us? The Americans can't give you what we do...they'll assimilate you, strip you of your language, force you into cowboy hats and make you pledge your allegiance IN ENGLISH! If you go off on your own, it will just leave a big, Quebec- shaped hole in the map of Canada. Wouldn't that look silly? All our under funded schools would have to take scissors to their maps...

Also we'd have to stop printing everything in French and English in retaliation, and how bored would our children be reading their cereal boxes in one language! Plus, you keep us on your toes with all your outrageous demands...our politics without you would consist of the Alliance members yakking about gay marriage, and the liberals looking offended by accusations of corruption.

So reconsider. We like Montreal, and we'd like to keep it Canadian. We won't make any promises about respecting you more, but we will admit that you are worth keeping....and just remember...Bush will just call you cheese-eating surrender monkeys if you leave...

Hey, don't forget about the Maritime rednecks. Yeah, they exist.

And seriously, if Quebec separated, what the hell would happen to the Montreal Canadiens? Besides continue to get beat by the Leafs, that is.

:confused: :confused: :confused: i dint get this site
:gundge: :gundge: :gundge: :gundge: ahhahhahhOhhhhh this is gonna be fun.



BRING IT ON !!!!!!! :mp5:

I have to admit that my image of feminists has been more negative due to the radicals like Andrea Dworkin, who once claimed that all "penetrative sex is rape", and Valerie Solanis of SCUM (Society for Cutting Up Men), both of which put me in mind of Hitler in a skirt (or would Stalin be more fitting?). Feminists like them are what gave the women's movement the epithet (by way of Rush Limbaugh, a former idol of mine) of FemiNAZIs. People like that tend to reinforce a certain negative view of feminism even among Libertarians like me. However, in all fairness, I do recognize that there are feminists who actually in favor of equality and not blind hatred of men.
I'm glad, because the nutjobs in ANY group are unfortunately what people see most...just look at the fundamentalists of all religions...it's easy to stereotype and dismiss. Feminist really has become a dirty word, but I for one refuse to choose another one, because the original idea of feminism is not the blind hatred of men. It's about gender equality for ALL genders.

Anyway, not the point. Thank you for not using feminism as an insult:)

Hey, don't forget about the Maritime rednecks. Yeah, they exist.
Yeah, but they're even harder to understand than the Quebecois...I mean, seriously, they should call what Newfoundlanders speak, Newfie, not English! :D

I'm glad, because the nutjobs in ANY group are unfortunately what people see most...just look at the fundamentalists of all religions...it's easy to stereotype and dismiss. Feminist really has become a dirty word, but I for one refuse to choose another one, because the original idea of feminism is not the blind hatred of men. It's about gender equality for ALL genders.

Anyway, not the point. Thank you for not using feminism as an insult:)

You're welcome. It's not like I'm opposed to gender equality, which was the original purpose of feminism, like you said. I used to be a male chauvinist pig, I'll admit, but things change and people mature.

I've heard it said in many a thread that Canadians constantly bash the US and never say anything bad about their own country. My argument is that this is a very US-issue heavy forum, and the examples given to start debates about certain issues are BETTER when they are examples most people on NS are familiar with.

But since some of you are asking for it, go ahead...let's talk dirty...oh wait, not dirty....BAD about Canada so you can go ahead and vent.

Though the same people who complain that we don't talk enough about Canada also seem not to give a rat's ass about Canada anyway...so why would we start a thread no one will participate in?

Well, let's see how this one goes. Bash away (try to bring up real issues if you are capable of it though).

England wipes the floor with the US and Canada

I'm glad, because the nutjobs in ANY group are unfortunately what people see most...just look at the fundamentalists of all religions...it's easy to stereotype and dismiss. Feminist really has become a dirty word, but I for one refuse to choose another one, because the original idea of feminism is not the blind hatred of men. It's about gender equality for ALL genders.

Anyway, not the point. Thank you for not using feminism as an insult:)

I've always hated the fact that as soon as people label themselves, other people then bash them over the head with that label.

Nothing wrong with a feminist. Why is it a bad idea to be "for" yourself?

I've always hated the fact that as soon as people label themselves, other people then bash them over the head with that label.

Nothing wrong with a feminist. Why is it a bad idea to be "for" yourself?
Carefull...it's not just being "for" myself as a female...(and as to your question, I give you one answer: white supremacy).

As a feminist, I also am for the male identity, the transgendered identity, the intersexed identity and their equality. To be just "for" women would mean you were "against" or at least "indifferent" to other genders, which isn't so. The name is misleading, I'll grant you, since it seems to refer only to women.

I know we've had our differences. Especially in the western provinces. We have a serious issue with you and Ontario, but we tend to blame things on you more because of the whole separation issue. I think we can bury the hatchet.

About separation. Please, please reconsider. You might think the US will give you a better deal, or that you can just go it alone, but frankly, WE NEED YOU! Canada without Quebec is just that less quirky and cute. Then we'll only be known for our Albertan rednecks, and do you really want the world to lose that much respect for us? The Americans can't give you what we do...they'll assimilate you, strip you of your language, force you into cowboy hats and make you pledge your allegiance IN ENGLISH! If you go off on your own, it will just leave a big, Quebec- shaped hole in the map of Canada. Wouldn't that look silly? All our under funded schools would have to take scissors to their maps...

Also we'd have to stop printing everything in French and English in retaliation, and how bored would our children be reading their cereal boxes in one language! Plus, you keep us on your toes with all your outrageous demands...our politics without you would consist of the Alliance members yakking about gay marriage, and the liberals looking offended by accusations of corruption.

So reconsider. We like Montreal, and we'd like to keep it Canadian. We won't make any promises about respecting you more, but we will admit that you are worth keeping....and just remember...Bush will just call you cheese-eating surrender monkeys if you leave...

My biggest problem with Canada is its lack of governmental balance and the fact that so many people are forced into a socialized system that don't want to be. That and taxes that are even higher than the insanely high taxes in the U.S.

I have Canadian friends that routinely come to the the U.S. for Medical care because they can't get the timely service or quality of care in Canada that can be had in the U.S. Having to wait 9 months for your name to get to the top of the list to have a simple tonsilectomy after a long history of infections requiring hospitalization is just plain insanity.

BTW, I love the Canadian Rockies and Hockey. I also have met Canadian military and found them to be a very pleasant bunch. Most Canadian's I have had the privelige of knowing seem to be very decent people. Just misguided about what Gov. is good for.

Carefull...it's not just being "for" myself as a female...(and as to your question, I give you one answer: white supremacy).

As a feminist, I also am for the male identity, the transgendered identity, the intersexed identity and their equality. To be just "for" women would mean you were "against" or at least "indifferent" to other genders, which isn't so. The name is misleading, I'll grant you, since it seems to refer only to women.

It's possible so be "for" something without claiming that it's "supreme" over something else.

If you get up in the morning and say, "hooray for women!", you're not trashing someone else's gender (no matter what it might be). You're not being indifferent, either - it's possible to turn right around and say, "hooray for the transgendered!".

My biggest problem with Canada is its lack of governmental balance and the fact that so many people are forced into a socialized system that don't want to be.

As a Canadian you're basically talking for Alberta.. who thinks every thing should be handed to them on a silver spoon.

I know we've had our differences. Especially in the western provinces. We have a serious issue with you and Ontario, but we tend to blame things on you more because of the whole separation issue. I think we can bury the hatchet.

About separation. Please, please reconsider. You might think the US will give you a better deal, or that you can just go it alone, but frankly, WE NEED YOU! Canada without Quebec is just that less quirky and cute. Then we'll only be known for our Albertan rednecks, and do you really want the world to lose that much respect for us? The Americans can't give you what we do...they'll assimilate you, strip you of your language, force you into cowboy hats and make you pledge your allegiance IN ENGLISH! If you go off on your own, it will just leave a big, Quebec- shaped hole in the map of Canada. Wouldn't that look silly? All our under funded schools would have to take scissors to their maps...

Also we'd have to stop printing everything in French and English in retaliation, and how bored would our children be reading their cereal boxes in one language! Plus, you keep us on your toes with all your outrageous demands...our politics without you would consist of the Alliance members yakking about gay marriage, and the liberals looking offended by accusations of corruption.

So reconsider. We like Montreal, and we'd like to keep it Canadian. We won't make any promises about respecting you more, but we will admit that you are worth keeping....and just remember...Bush will just call you cheese-eating surrender monkeys if you leave...
Sorry, no deal. We alone will decide what to do.
Although, if it was only up to me, we'd stay with our fine Canadian friends.

It's possible so be "for" something without claiming that it's "supreme" over something else.

If you get up in the morning and say, "hooray for women!", you're not trashing someone else's gender (no matter what it might be). You're not being indifferent, either - it's possible to turn right around and say, "hooray for the transgendered!".
Okay, just making sure we're both clear on this. Feminisim is often misrepresented, but I'm glad to see you've got a good handle on it:)

My biggest problem with Canada is its lack of governmental balance and the fact that so many people are forced into a socialized system that don't want to be. That and taxes that are even higher than the insanely high taxes in the U.S.

compared to where? I think you'll find that the US taxes are pretty low if comapered to most european countries.

As a Canadian you're basically talking for Alberta.. who thinks every thing should be handed to them on a silver spoon.
Just wait for JaytheWise, the ultimate Albertan cheerleader, who thinks that Alberta carries the rest of Canada...

I'm an Albertan by the way, who hates King Ralph and everything he stands for. And I'm a rural hick that hates King Ralph and everything he stands for.

Sorry, no deal. We alone will decide what to do.
Although, if it was only up to me, we'd stay with our fine Canadian friends.
You notice I was asking you to reconsider, not telling you that you had to...

And one little word of warning, as I mentioned before, my fellow natives in Quebec will splinter off from an independent Quebec faster than you can say, "au revoir, Canada!" :p

Okay, just making sure we're both clear on this. Feminisim is often misrepresented, but I'm glad to see you've got a good handle on it:)

The key here is to know that especially in the early days of modern feminism, there was a fair amount of "hooray for us and you suck!" Just like any group of fans, if you get a whole stadium of them cheering for the team, there are some who will take the cheering over the edge.

Can't say I blame them, though, considering the subhuman role that women have been forced to play through the centuries (and in most places in the world, still do). I would be really angry.

As a Canadian you're basically talking for Alberta.. who thinks every thing should be handed to them on a silver spoon.

The one thing I'm very happy about in the U.S. is that no single demographic group drives policy. Those of us who live in rural settings are not completely dominated by the Dems. in the cities yet. In Canada I don't think that is working so well. At the very least, Canada is a fairly good neighbor. Beats the heck out of Mexico anyway.

Why bother?

The National Post (a Canadian newspaper,) has already undertaken the challenge of bashing Canada (http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/comment/story.html?id=d0ee0f9d-2cda-491e-b603-ef6687df8318).'

Ah yes, the National Post. They like to consider themselves the "Anti-CBC". The lefties among us like to call them right-wing hacks. Or Consdervative butt-kissers. I'm not certain I've ever heard anyone call them 'moderate'.

compared to where? I think you'll find that the US taxes are pretty low if comapered to most european countries.

Which are far more insane. IMO Any time you spend half your working life just to pay for the Governments existance there is a MAJOR problem.

I've heard it said in many a thread that Canadians constantly bash the US and never say anything bad about their own country. My argument is that this is a very US-issue heavy forum, and the examples given to start debates about certain issues are BETTER when they are examples most people on NS are familiar with.

But since some of you are asking for it, go ahead...let's talk dirty...oh wait, not dirty....BAD about Canada so you can go ahead and vent.

Though the same people who complain that we don't talk enough about Canada also seem not to give a rat's ass about Canada anyway...so why would we start a thread no one will participate in?

Well, let's see how this one goes. Bash away (try to bring up real issues if you are capable of it though).

England wipes the floor with Canada and the US

So... the US is, of course, ruled by some dead guy and a pyramid?

Didn't you get the memo?

1. The pyramid is a representation of the Republic. The reason why the capstone doesn't touch is to represent that the work of the nation is never completed.

2. You'll note that 1776 is spelled out in the pyramid at the base.

3. The eye is the Great Eye of Nixon, whom watches all. So yes, a dead guy does rule the US. :D

England wipes the floor with Canada and the US

Mayhap, then, it should spend less time wiping some floor and more time brushing its teeth.

England wipes the floor with Canada and the US


Yeah, that's why were still governed by you I suppose :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Which are far more insane. IMO Any time you spend half your working life just to pay for the Governments existance there is a MAJOR problem.

You may be surprised to find out that many Canadians don't want to see their taxes cut, as we expect them to pay for services.

Here in BC, four years ago the provincial government cut taxes and slashed social services, and there was a major uproar. There is an election this year, and they asked for public response on what areas the budget should concentrate on, and lowering taxes wasn't even on the horizon. The gov was told to return the services it took away.

You notice I was asking you to reconsider, not telling you that you had to...

And one little word of warning, as I mentioned before, my fellow natives in Quebec will splinter off from an independent Quebec faster than you can say, "au revoir, Canada!" :p
Point of interest for further debates, saying the native population will splinter might work against you in this debate. Right now, the First Nations are not that popular here because of internal problems near Montreal.

And people still remember the Oka Crisis.

Not that every First Nation is like the mohawks of Kahnawake (sp?), far from it. But you have an uphill battle in the public opinion because of these bad apples.

You may be surprised to find out that many Canadians don't want to see their taxes cut, as we expect them to pay for services.

Here in BC, four years ago the provincial government cut taxes and slashed social services, and there was a major uproar. There is an election this year, and they asked for public response on what areas the budget should concentrate on, and lowering taxes wasn't even on the horizon. The gov was told to return the services it took away.


Exactly what is wrong with Canada and most Socialist Governments. Entitlement mentality rather than personal responsibility.

Point of interest for further debates, saying the native population will splinter might work against you in this debate. Right now, the First Nations are not that popular here because of internal problems near Montreal.

And people still remember the Oka Crisis.

Not that every First Nation is like the mohawks of Kahnawake (sp?), far from it. But you have an uphill battle in the public opinion because of these bad apples.
You don't have to like them to let them go:)

Point of interest for further debates, saying the native population will splinter might work against you in this debate. Right now, the First Nations are not that popular here because of internal problems near Montreal.

And people still remember the Oka Crisis.

Not that every First Nation is like the mohawks of Kahnawake (sp?), far from it. But you have an uphill battle in the public opinion because of these bad apples.

Fair enough - but the natives (and the anglophones) living in Quebec also have the right to vote on separation from Canada. And from what we've seen in previous referendums, they'd generally like to remain Canadians. This fact may not help the federalist's public relations campaigns, but nevertheless, it's still true.

Exactly what is wrong with Canada and most Socialist Governments. Entitlement mentality rather than personal responsibility.
Yeah....we want to pay lots of taxes so we get everything for free...oh wait, that makes no sense.

Basic point being, if there is a precident for separation set, don't be surprised to find that others may choose to separate from you too.

Far fetched...

...but possible...

Exactly what is wrong with Canada and most Socialist Governments. Entitlement mentality rather than personal responsibility.

Don't be silly. We are paying taxes for those services. We know they aren't free.

The difference is that most of us want to ensure that they are available for everyone, not just those who can pay for them.

Fair enough - but the natives (and the anglophones) living in Quebec also have the right to vote on separation from Canada. And from what we've seen in previous referendums, they'd generally like to remain Canadians. This fact may not help the federalist's public relations campaigns, but nevertheless, it's still true.
True. And I am aware of that fact.
But, saying "watch out! We may leave!" is not going to stop the separatist movement. They'll likely say "good riddance". It is far better for the anglophone and native population (and us too) to go out and vote in droves.

Mayhap, then, it should spend less time wiping some floor and more time brushing its teeth.

and getting braces

True. And I am aware of that fact.
But, saying "watch out! We may leave!" is not going to stop the separatist movement. They'll likely say "good riddance". It is far better for the anglophone and native population (and us too) to go out and vote in droves.
I agree...the original "warning" was meant as a joke...kind of like strongarm tactics of "once you do this, everyone else will get to as well..."

Basic point being, if there is a precident for separation set, don't be surprised to find that others may choose to separate from you too.

Far fetched...

...but possible...
I can already see it:
The country of Montreal, the country of Quebec, the territory of the north and a couple of enclaves sitll in the Canada here and there.

I can already see it:
The country of Montreal, the country of Quebec, the territory of the north and a couple of enclaves sitll in the Canada here and there.
:D It would strike a massive blow for anarchy....YAY!

I haven't seen a great deal of difference between Alberta and Montana.

I could see Alberta seceding and becoming part of the US.

In fact, to address the concerns that Canadians have with US policies, they could all become US states (all except Quebec, which would be all that was left).

I haven't seen a great deal of difference between Alberta and Montana.

I could see Alberta seceding and becoming part of the US.


Actually, I could see that happening long before Quebec leaving...scary that no one takes Alberta separatists seriously when we're more likely to do it because we think we're so rich and wonderful and no one ever appreciates us...

Actually, I could see that happening long before Quebec leaving...scary that no one takes Alberta separatists seriously when we're more likely to do it because we think we're so rich and wonderful and no one ever appreciates us...

A man from Allstate Canada pointed out to me that Alberta and Montana have more in common with each other than they do with their central governments.

I can already see it:
The country of Montreal, the country of Quebec, the territory of the north and a couple of enclaves sitll in the Canada here and there.

LOL -- sounds like a mess to me. Quebec may be able to go it alone, it's a pretty rich province, although it'll hurt quite a bit when Canadian reparation...ahem...I mean equalization payments stop, but all those smaller countries wouldn't have a hope. Not unless they became the tax haven Caymen Islands of north america. Or something like that.

Sinuhue, we don't take Alberta separatists seriously, because they seem to think that BC, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba would want to go with them -- and we don't.

Even the Klein Tories have no interest in separating, the Alberta separatists are way more of a fringe than the Quebec separatists are.

Sinuhue, we don't take Alberta separatists seriously, because they seem to think that BC, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba would want to go with them -- and we don't.

Even the Klein Tories have no interest in separating, the Alberta separatists are way more of a fringe than the Quebec separatists are.
Yeah...I know:( I'm just trying to make Alberta seem more important than it is. I suffer from low self-national esteem too.

Yeah...I know:( I'm just trying to make Alberta seem more important than it is. I suffer from low self-national esteem too.

:fluffle: Aww, Sinuhue, I didn't say Alberta wasn't important. I just don't take Alberta separatists any more seriously than I do BC separatists.

Alberta is a great place to visit, and I have family who live in Calgary and Edmonton as well. I love the Stampede and Spruce Meadows and the Tyrell Museum in Drumheller. Though finding camp sites around there is easier said then done.

:fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:

I haven't seen a great deal of difference between Alberta and Montana.

I could see Alberta seceding and becoming part of the US.

In fact, to address the concerns that Canadians have with US policies, they could all become US states (all except Quebec, which would be all that was left).

Wha? what part of alberta and montana have you been to? The first difference I notice is the two large cities in alberta, the tons of oil and the fact alberta has a economy ten times the size of montana.

they do both have lots of ranches, cows, mountains and praires though, so guess it would look all the same lol

LOL -- sounds like a mess to me. Quebec may be able to go it alone, it's a pretty rich province, although it'll hurt quite a bit when Canadian reparation...ahem...I mean equalization payments stop, but all those smaller countries wouldn't have a hope. Not unless they became the tax haven Caymen Islands of north america. Or something like that.


ya it would be pretty interesting to see what portion of the federal debt they get and where they get energy from (the newfies may have something to say about sending hydro to another country)

Wha? what part of alberta and montana have you been to? The first difference I notice is the two large cities in alberta, the tons of oil and the fact alberta has a economy ten times the size of montana.

they do both have lots of ranches, cows, mountains and praires though, so guess it would look all the same lol

The natural gas gives Alberta the bigger economy. But it looks like a lot of the middle of nowhere to me (in either case). And it's farging cold in the winter.

The natural gas gives Alberta the bigger economy. But it looks like a lot of the middle of nowhere to me (in either case). And it's farging cold in the winter.

Actually, you'd be surprised. This year has been pretty warm in southern Alberta - they haven't had the low temps and huge snowfalls eastern Canada has had this year. I was in Calgary before Christmas, and not only was there no snow, but it was above 0 celsius. Not Florida weather, I agree, but since I live in Victoria, I was expecting a lot worse.

(Note: Mind you on Christmas day it did snow, and the following day it dropped to -20 C, so you win some, you lose some. But apparently the weather was nice again in February.)

Still cold enough for the police in Edmonton to drive homeless people out into the wilderness to freeze to death, eh?

Wha? what part of alberta and montana have you been to? The first difference I notice is the two large cities in alberta, the tons of oil and the fact alberta has a economy ten times the size of montana.

they do both have lots of ranches, cows, mountains and praires though, so guess it would look all the same lol
I told you he was our resident cheerleader!

The natural gas gives Alberta the bigger economy. But it looks like a lot of the middle of nowhere to me (in either case). And it's farging cold in the winter.


Well the oil + gas helps ya. Alberta would still be much better off than montana.

Calgary has 1.2 million, edmonton 1 million peoples, you must have been in the deep south with the empty prairies.

YOu have to remember canadian provinces are HUGE, alberta is 2/3s the size of texas with a pop of 3.5 million and most of that is focused between highway 2 between calgary and edmonton

Oh and one more thing - usually Alberta is compared to Texas, not Montana. Maybe Jaythewise was just surprised by your analogy.

I dont know what we have against Canada. I mean we can't help it that we are so much better. I'd make fun of the little kid on the block too. :sniper:

Still cold enough for the police in Edmonton to drive homeless people out into the wilderness to freeze to death, eh?
That was SASKATCHEWAN thank you very much! (unless you are making fun of whoever it was that was saying that about Edmonton in a thread a while back....)

I dont know what we have against Canada. I mean we can't help it that we are so much better. I'd make fun of the little kid on the block too.
One day that little kid will grow up and whoop your ass :cool:

No, it was outside Saskatoon:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/stonechild/

The Edmonton police were made famous in the US by a story about collusion between the owners of that giant mall and the local police.

Seems the mall owners thought that homeless people shouldn't keep coming back, and the police were tired of re-arresting them. So they drove them 50km out of town and let them freeze to death.

One or two managed to live long enough to walk back to town, but for a while, no one believed them.

Yeah, we Albertans don't beat up natives or let them freeze to death...well...we beat them up, but not the other one. Unless they're homeless. Ok, we don't drive them somewhere to freeze to death. We don't like them in our cars.

The Edmonton police were made famous in the US by a story about collusion between the owners of that giant mall and the local police.

Seems the mall owners thought that homeless people shouldn't keep coming back, and the police were tired of re-arresting them. So they drove them 50km out of town and let them freeze to death.

One or two managed to live long enough to walk back to town, but for a while, no one believed them.
I hadn't heard that, though it wouldn't surprise me. Got a linky though? I'd like to know about it...

Our premier also bought bus tickets for folks on welfare and encouraged them to move to BC.

You suck, Ralph.

He also got drunk, walked into a homeless shelter, scattered change at the rudely awoken folks then and screamed at them to get a job.

And we reelected him.

YeHAW!

Don't be silly. We are paying taxes for those services. We know they aren't free.

The difference is that most of us want to ensure that they are available for everyone, not just those who can pay for them.

The problem is half of it gets cut out in Gov. beauracacy and never actually provides a useable service. Gov. is about the least efficient spender of funds known to man.

We can start with what the Edmonton police thought about gays:
http://www.fathers.ca/police_thugs_abuse_of_power.htm

Our premier also bought bus tickets for folks on welfare and encouraged them to move to BC.

You suck, Ralph.

He also got drunk, walked into a homeless shelter, scattered change at the rudely awoken folks then and screamed at them to get a job.

And we reelected him.

YeHAW!

He must be a hoot at parties though.

The problem is half of it gets cut out in Gov. beauracacy and never actually provides a useable service. Gov. is about the least efficient spender of funds known to man.

Geez, we got problems with bureaucracy, but it sure as hell isn't half.

Edit: And you wanna quit changing up your argument? First you tell me it's wrong to tax for services because it creates entitlement, now you're telling me it's wrong because governments are wasteful.

The least you could do is dissect my arguements before moving on to a new one.

Our premier also bought bus tickets for folks on welfare and encouraged them to move to BC.

YeHAW!

Yeah, that was real popular here in BC. But if it makes you feel any better, Ernie Eves in Ontario was doing exactly the same thing.

Its always odd when people from new england or ontario come to alberta and talk about how cold it is. I usally say "ummm no southern alberta has a better winter climate"

Compare toronto and calgary. If you check the average temps in feb

calgary low -10 average high 1
toronto low -10 average nigh 1

about the same cept toronto gets way more snow and has no chinnoks, where the temp can climb into the + 15C range in feb, like it has the past week.

it can get bitterly cold but usally here in southern alberta it doesnt last very long.

Of course edmonton doesnt get chinnoks and is about 10 C colder in the winter...

We can start with what the Edmonton police thought about gays:
http://www.fathers.ca/police_thugs_abuse_of_power.htm
I'm familiar with the case, but maybe you could just cut and paste the particular passage referring to gays? This was more of a personal vendetta against journalists...

it can get bitterly cold but usally here in southern alberta it doesnt last very long.

Of course edmonton doesnt get chinnoks and is about 10 C colder in the winter...
You should get up to Fort Chip sometime if you wan't REALLY cold...

I'm familiar with the case, but maybe you could just cut and paste the particular passage referring to gays? This was more of a personal vendetta against journalists...
Are you still looking for the info about driving folks out and leaving them?

Geez, we got problems with bureaucracy, but it sure as hell isn't half.

Edit: And you wanna quit changing up your argument? First you tell me it's wrong to tax for services because it creates entitlement, now you're telling me it's wrong because governments are wasteful.

The least you could do is dissect my arguements before moving on to a new one.

Both are problems with socialism. It isn't one or the other.

Yes, half may be a slight exageration, probably closer to 35 to 40 %, but in anycase, why not pay directly for services, much more cost efficient. Better to buy a fish from the person who caught it than from the meat packer. Better to buy it from the meat packer than from the shipping company. Better to buy from the shipping company than the supermarket. And better from the supermarket than from the Government.

The entitlement problem is also an issue. IMO, the Gov. only reason for existance is to protect the rights of its citizens not to make provision for the needs of its citizens. Personal needs are a personal responsibility. No one is entitled to any provision simply because they exist.

What was said

There were seven police officers in and around the bar.

Here is an exchange as they try spot Diotte (designated T1 for Target One; Ignasiak was T2), who is balding:

P4: Nobody is dressed like he is anyway so he will stick out. He's got a real bright royal blue button-up shirt with a tie on and a sports jacket and his shiny, shiny dome.

P1: A couple faggy looking guys coming out now. Maybe one of them's him.

Before that, P1 says, "Yeah, I think the guy who gets this target will never have to pay for a drink as long as he lives."

Both are problems with socialism. It isn't one or the other.

Yes, half may be a slight exageration, probably closer to 35 to 40 %, but in anycase, why not pay directly for services, much more cost efficient. Better to buy a fish from the person who caught it than from the meat packer. Better to buy it from the meat packer than from the shipping company. Better to buy from the shipping company than the supermarket. And better from the supermarket than from the Government.

The entitlement problem is also an issue. IMO, the Gov. only reason for existance is to protect the rights of its citizens not to make provision for the needs of its citizens. Personal needs are a personal responsibility. No one is entitled to any provision simply because they exist.

As I said before, Canadians are generally willing to pay taxes to provide the services to ensure those services are provided to everyone. It's not an entitlement - it just means that we are [generally] supportive of each other. It means that we are taking personal responsibility for ourselves AND for others in our communities.

You know, like families do.

Here we go. What the police do to natives they don't like:
http://radio.cbc.ca/programs/thismorning/sites/news/carty_001103.html

The transcript is further down that web page, and it starts with the Saskatchewan story - but further down we read:

"After the deaths of Rodney Naistus and Lawrence Wegner, native leaders in Saskatchewan opened a telephone hot line. They received more than 600 calls registering various complaints about police conduct - including at least 16 other case of Starlight Tours.

And there are other stories - from outside of Saskatoon as well - from Winnipeg, Regina, Edmonton , and Calgary. "

You should get up to Fort Chip sometime if you wan't REALLY cold...


where is that?

Judging from what I read, Canada has some real issues to resolve concerning the original inhabitants.

The starlight tours, for instance, seem to have been widespread. It's murder - and in a callous and indifferent, yet institutionalized manner.

I've read one story of a starlight tour from 30 years ago. So it's been going on and on and on.

As I said before, Canadians are generally willing to pay taxes to provide the services to ensure those services are provided to everyone. It's not an entitlement - it just means that we are [generally] supportive of each other. It means that we are taking personal responsibility for ourselves AND for others in our communities.

You know, like families do.


Plus being a person who supports market forces, I just dont get the USA system with health care. You cant shop around and get the best price in times of medical problems. If you have a heart attack you go to the nearest hospital. You shop around and get that deal at MC hearts. Market forces dont work AT ALL with health care.

health care is about the only place socialism works. YOu can predict numbers, costs very well and put into practice large scale changes WAY more efficiently than a million private clinics + hosiptals can. When you duplicate service + policies in a public system you get better care. Private system just cant compare and are WAY more expensive and overall have worse care.

USA infant mortallity rate = lower than canada
Life expentacy = lower than canada
Cost per person = HIGHER than canada
The usa spend a higer percentage of its GDP per capita than canada.

The list goes on and on. YOu can check all these facts at the CIA worldfact website....

where is that?
It's up at the top right...Fort Chipewyan.

http://atlas.gc.ca/site/english/maps/reference/provincesterritories/alberta/referencemap_image_view

Mostly just natives up there though...OMG!