NationStates Jolt Archive

When I came to NS, I was checking out the enviroment of cultural tolerance of the NS and to me it seems like this fell short of my expectations. First of all one of its most famous users Kahta(no offence to you) has a ill will towards minorities and their influence(it can be examine in his RP and one of his topics). I also saw topics where the black urban culture (Rap and hip hop for example) are scorned at. I wonder if someone here likes the black urban culture? But from what I seen it seems no one seems to like it. :(

Not liking something doesn't make you intolerant. It just means you don't like it, you can still tolerate it.

Are you expecting an apology because one member offended you?

This not asking for an apology, this is just saying how much ignorance there is on the boards of NS. I mean Kahta displays his anti minority views at his RPs and in some of his topics (2 examples are when he reduce asians to animals and ranting about rap music). I just wonder if there is at least a few users here who actually appreciates hip hop.

I like a fair bit of "black urban music", but who gives a shit if others don't? I see some of the hiphop / rap on TV and I understand why people hate the music so readily..

This not asking for an apology, this is just saying how much ignorance there is on the boards of NS. I mean Kahta displays his anti minority views at his RPs and in some of his topics (2 examples are when he reduce asians to animals and ranting about rap music). I just wonder if there is at least a few users here who actually appreciates hip hop.

Kahta is still only one player out of 120,000+. He's hardly indicative of the entire population. And he's still entitled to his views, as ignorant as they may seem.

When I was kid rap and hip-hop could only be heard at 2 am on Saturdays on a poorly recieved college radio station and I used to love it. I listened to The Jonsun(sp) Crew, Herbie Hancock's DJ DST, Kurtis Blow, Grand Master Flash (who I finally saw live a few years ago). I even went to the original Fresh Fest with Doug E. Fresh, The Wreckin' Crew...some others....

I don't listen to much anymore, more a results of my tastes changing than anything else. I listen to 20th century compositions and free jazz and some others. I appriciate performers like Rza who I think has done some interesting things. I think the culture itself is amazingly self-propelled and a thrill to hang out with. The portion that has a graffiti ethic are pretty cool, what they are able to create under the conditions that they do it in is pretty amazing (I'm not talking about dickheads with magic markers on buses).

Or you could have looked at the people that argued with the people you ran into for your conformation.

People argue here all the time (its the fun) so pretty much every idea's opposite will be here at some point or another.

I generally towards Black Urban Culture. ;)

There is very little with rap/hip-hop since the advent of 'gangsta' that has interested.

A few diamonds, but a lot of rough.

I generally towards Black Urban Culture. ;)
hehe. I kept trying to figure out how one 'towards' something generally...

I don't see black people, I just see people.

There are some rap/hip-hop artists that I respect a lot (KRS-One comes to mind). Also if Langston Hughes counts as part of "Black Urban Culture," he is awesome. But there are also Black urban cultural producers that I dislike, e.g., Snoop Dogg.

When I came to NS, I was checking out the enviroment of cultural tolerance of the NS and to me it seems like this fell short of my expectations. First of all one of its most famous users Kahta(no offence to you) has a ill will towards minorities and their influence(it can be examine in his RP and one of his topics). I also saw topics where the black urban culture (Rap and hip hop for example) are scorned at. I wonder if someone here likes the black urban culture? But from what I seen it seems no one seems to like it. :(

I'm a culturist...I don't dislike skin, but I think many cultures are just off.

That said, I don't think all hip-hop is 'off'. It's very broad, and some of it's appealing. Although nothing perfect, and neither hip-hop.

Note: it's more commercial than anything. anyone that takes it too seriously odd to have his head examined.

I don't like most rap, but Vanilla Ice used to make me laugh, until he 'vanished.'

I don't like most rap, but Vanilla Ice used to make me laugh, until he 'vanished.'

Word to your mother.

I like Cypress Hill. :D

I like Cypress Hill. :D

So you wanna be a rap superstar?
Nice house, fine car?

:p

So you wanna be a rap superstar?
Nice house, fine car?
Comin' up in the world,
Don't trust nobody,
Gotta look over ya shoulder constantly.

But I'd rather be a Rock Superstar. :)

Comin' up in the world,
Don't trust nobody,
Gotta look over ya shoulder constantly.

But I'd rather be a Rock Superstar. :)

I DID type rock, but then I thought that it must be wrong! :headbang:

I DID type rock, but then I thought that it must be wrong!
Actually they're both Cypress Hill songs. :) It's just I generally prefer rock to rap.

This is veering away from BLACK urban culture, but if you like Cypress Hill you'd probably like Kottonmouth Kings too.

This is veering away from BLACK urban culture, but if you like Cypress Hill you'd probably like Kottonmouth Kings too.
I had gotten a Kottonmouth Kings t-shirt from my job that got me soooooo many random smoke outs until I gave it to a chick who was really a fan of the band...

I prefer the "old school" stuff like Run DMC, Grandmaster Flash, Sugarhill Gang, etc.

I find the contrast between the typical lyrics back then compared to now somewhat amusing. A lot of the lyrics back then were "Stay in school, get a decent education, don't do drugs and don't be a victim" where now it largely seems to be "I gotz ma bitches 'n' gunz 'n' cocaine cuz I'm straight from da ghetto aaight?"

Of course, I'm probably being far too critical of modern rap but I lost interest with all the gangsta stuff.

I'm not going to try to defend all gangsta rap, since a lot of it just sucks. But it did give us some classic protest songs, like "Cop Killer" by Ice-T.

Hip-hop HAS become too commercialized. Like so many other things pop culture has gotten its dirty hands on, it has been taken over by money-hungry people with little to no talent. After all, the purpose of pop culture is to make the money not through quality but by quantity.

And, I'd like to point out, hip-hop was originally called the "music of the people" and was not predominately a black thing. In fact, hip-hop does not refer to the music itself; it refers to the culture as a whole and also involves tagging and graffiti, breakdancing, emceeing, and other musical styles besides breakbeat like house and trance. Here's a timeline Unofficial Hip Hop Timeline@Bboy.com (http://www.b-boys.com/hiphoptimeline.html) Basically, people at the time heard disco and said to themselves "Hey, give me the equipment and I could make music X times better than that cookie cutter disco crap." and, thus, the foundations for modern electronica were born. Also, if you want to get a good idea about what the hip-hop culture really stands for and where it's roots originated, I recommend watching the movie "Beat Streets".

i just dont particularly like rap or hip hop..if that makes me ignorant then so be it

I'm not going to try to defend all gangsta rap, since a lot of it just sucks. But it did give us some classic protest songs, like "Cop Killer" by Ice-T.

You'd count that as gangsta rap? Interesting.

I'd never considered it to be gangsta, just Ice-T being his usual angry, outspoken self :)

Also, on another slightly random tack - I believe KRS-One did a song called "To Prove A Point" where he raps to rock/metal music? I've been searching for it but I've never found it.

Also, if you want to get a good idea about what the hip-hop culture really stands for and where it's roots originated, I recommend watching the movie "Beat Streets".

I love that movie but I haven't seen it in ages.

I'm gonna add that to my "Must Get" list, thanks for reminding me!

Also, if you want to get a good idea about what the hip-hop culture really stands for and where it's roots originated, I recommend watching the movie "Beat Streets".
Alright, I have a soft spot of Beat Street as much as anyone, but wouldn't you think that that is really more or less the begining or the end in terms of the culture being sold out, along with it's compatriates Breakin' and the Mario Van Peebles vehicle Rappin' (where he played Rappin' Hood...gives me shivers)?

And wouldn't a better example of film from that era be Krush Groove, the slightly fictionalized rise of Russel Simmons?

Alright, I have a soft spot of Beat Street as much as anyone, but wouldn't you think that that is really more or less the begining or the end in terms of the culture being sold out, along with it's compatriates Breakin' and the Mario Van Peebles vehicle Rappin' (where he played Rappin' Hood...gives me shivers)?

And wouldn't a better example of film from that era be Krush Groove, the slightly fictionalized rise of Russel Simmons?

Krush Groove?

I could go and look it up on IMDB but I'd like to hear what someone who obviously likes it thinks about it. Tell me! (please :) )

Krush Groove?

I could go and look it up on IMDB but I'd like to hear what someone who obviously likes it thinks about it. Tell me! (please :) )
Well, Krush Groove (http://imdb.com/title/tt0089444/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxzZz0xfGxtPTUwMHx0dD1vbnxmYj11fHBuPTB8cT1LcnVzaCBHcm9vdmV8aHRtbD0xfG5tPW9u;fc= 1;ft=20) (there's the imdb for ya) is (more or less) the rise of Def Jam records and the two brothers (Russel Simmons and Run of Run-DMC). Run-DMC's King of Rock (if I remember correctly, I'm trying to do this with out going to the imdb page for reminders) becomes a hit and it's something that they are not ready to deal with. It has a great part for Kurtis Blow, who has been with Def Jam from the begining but Simmons lets him go to another label for his career. It also has a great appearance by LL Cool J doing an audition with I Can't Live Without My Radio.

It's a lot about the entrepunerial spirit and community of the early hip-hop culture. Really a must see if you're into it. I saw it in the theaters while my parents watched The Gods Must Be Crazy.

I'm not going to try to defend all gangsta rap, since a lot of it just sucks. But it did give us some classic protest songs, like "Cop Killer" by Ice-T.
That song is kewl. :cool:

I love that movie but I haven't seen it in ages.

I'm gonna add that to my "Must Get" list, thanks for reminding me!
No prob, bob. Always glad to help. :D
Alright, I have a soft spot of Beat Street as much as anyone, but wouldn't you think that that is really more or less the begining or the end in terms of the culture being sold out, along with it's compatriates Breakin' and the Mario Van Peebles vehicle Rappin' (where he played Rappin' Hood...gives me shivers)?
Yeah, I know. But, out of the three its the least campy. BTW, you forgot "Breakin' 2: Electric Boogaloo" :p


And wouldn't a better example of film from that era be Krush Groove, the slightly fictionalized rise of Russel Simmons?
I'm embarrased to say that I've never seen it or I would have mentioned it as well. Thanks for the head's up; I'll watch for it on cable or at the local video store.

Hey... stop knocking Breakin'

I loved that movie when I was a kid. Of course, I'd refuse to watch it now because I'm sure it'd ruin my childhood memories of it.

It was, as I recall, my first major introduction to hip-hop & breakdancing. It was from that movie that my interest grew and my taste matured :D

I like some of the music, mostly Ice-T, Onyx and stuff like that, and really love good grafitti.
But what the fuck happened to Hip-Hop? 95% nowadays is absolutely horrible, with unneccessary smoothy background choirs, dumb mysogynistic lyrics and not even rapped anymore. It merges with that crappy R'n'B like there is no tomorrow. If it wasnt for the new Beastie Boys album i would lose my faith in Hip Hop altogether. :rolleyes:

I'm actually a really big fan of hip-hop and rap...as it existed back in the 80's and 90's. Not so much now; I guess some of the "Country Grammar" style music still catches my ear now and again.

Overall, rap has become corporate pop; just like any successful music style. This commercialization has made it less and less innovative, fewer and fewer artists can get on the air with original, or even much quality material as it the filter of cooperate media strains out the creative. It was the innovation and the soul behind rap that made it so interesting.

But that's rap as a musical style. I cannot say black urban culture held much appeal for me at any point, very few cultures do though. I have respect for it, but I'm not inclined to emulate it.

Well, I wonder if Gyrobot has anything to add to his original comments?

I like this thread's title:
"Who generally towards black urban culture"?
:confused:

It was suppose to meant who is generally tolerant towards black urban culture.

Who generally towards black urban culture

This sentence no verb.

When I came to NS, I was checking out the enviroment of cultural tolerance of the NS and to me it seems like this fell short of my expectations. First of all one of its most famous users Kahta(no offence to you) has a ill will towards minorities and their influence(it can be examine in his RP and one of his topics). I also saw topics where the black urban culture (Rap and hip hop for example) are scorned at. I wonder if someone here likes the black urban culture? But from what I seen it seems no one seems to like it. :(
Well there is the black culture, then there is the "MTV" black culture. Same for every other culture, except for white people, who we all know don't havea culture

When I came to NS, I was checking out the enviroment of cultural tolerance of the NS and to me it seems like this fell short of my expectations. First of all one of its most famous users Kahta(no offence to you) has a ill will towards minorities and their influence(it can be examine in his RP and one of his topics). I also saw topics where the black urban culture (Rap and hip hop for example) are scorned at. I wonder if someone here likes the black urban culture? But from what I seen it seems no one seems to like it. :(


For one rap and hip hop are useless. They promote violence and bad attitudes towards women and other races. Now with that said. There has been massive black contribution to the United States. We would not be the nation today if it were not for black Americans.

For one rap and hip hop are useless. They promote violence and bad attitudes towards women and other races. Now with that said. There has been massive black contribution to the United States. We would not be the nation today if it were not for black Americans.

What an interesting pair of conclusions. Don't you think?

1) Their culture/music is useless
2) We owe so much to them

Thus I can assume you either think
a)We are useless.
or
b)Black culture stopped being useful when they started to make music you didn't like.

I think Bill Cosby put it best...Its okay for rap music to reflect problems within the black community, so long as those problems are seen as problems and addressed. Its another thing entirely when you confuse the cry for help as a invitaiton for more.

There has been a problem with rap music promoting the very things its early creators sought to address. We have gone from seeing rap music as a form of "protest" music into seeing it as a part of pop culture.

Well there is the black culture, then there is the "MTV" black culture. Same for every other culture, except for white people, who we all know don't havea culture
that's bullshit, white people have a culture, only its more of a commercial mainstream thing so, most ridiculous generalizations like that disqualify it as being a culture.

the problem most rap is the glorification of a poor distitute lifestyle that often promotes violence. There is plenty of good rap/hip-hop music that not only reflects the problems in their life but is also progressive.

Hmmm i thought i told you I generally towards black urban culture.

This not asking for an apology, this is just saying how much ignorance there is on the boards of NS. I mean Kahta displays his anti minority views at his RPs and in some of his topics (2 examples are when he reduce asians to animals and ranting about rap music). I just wonder if there is at least a few users here who actually appreciates hip hop.

Ignorance means a lack of knowledge. Just because someone doesn't like rap or think that "urban" fashion is particularly stylish doesn't make them ignorant.

If you think that baggy pants are a poor fashion statement you may be ignorant, if you wear such clothes and have no idea that it became a fashion trend in imitation of people being sent to prison and having to make do with oversized jeans because the prison didn't have the proper size for everyone then you're ignorant and inclusive.

If the anti rap thread you're talking about is the one I remember I'd like to point out that I defended the character of rap relative to other genres, but I still don't like it. Disliking a style of music does not make you ignorant any more than liking one makes you enlightened. Do you enjoy aborigonal didgeridoo music? I doubt it.

Considering how moved you are to create a pro-rap thread I'll go out on a limb and say you don't like Tim McGraw music. If you did, it would not make you enlightened. In fact some of the most intolerant ignorant people enjoyed his line "we'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American way."

Besides, the only culture appearant in modern rap is the culture of corporate greed. Hip hop culture was more exemplified in the old albums of Public Enemy
and Grand Master Flash and the Furious Five. Their music was about more than self agrandizement. There hasn't been culture in commercial rap since MC Hammer made the scene. Ever since then the word culture is really only applicable in the sense it is used in medical labs.

That song is kewl. :cool:

I lost all respect for anything Ice T had to say when he put together the band Body Count. Just yelling about how threatened white people were by black rockers. I laughed when his song came on the radio in between a song by Living Color and one by King's X.

The idiot didn't even know that rock and roll originated as a primarily black musical form and that black people lost interest in it when whites started taking it in their direction.

This not asking for an apology, this is just saying how much ignorance there is on the boards of NS. I mean Kahta displays his anti minority views at his RPs and in some of his topics (2 examples are when he reduce asians to animals and ranting about rap music). I just wonder if there is at least a few users here who actually appreciates hip hop.
I hate to be the one to ruin all your childhood illusions, but not liking hip-hop does not equate to being "anti-minority!" :headbang:

Considering how moved you are to create a pro-rap thread I'll go out on a limb and say you don't like Tim McGraw music. If you did, it would not make you enlightened. In fact some of the most intolerant ignorant people enjoyed his line "we'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American way."
Actually that was toby keith's "Courtesy of the red, white, and blue". Funny how you were talking about ignorance.

Rap/Hip hop is the blacks' tool for spreading their racist agenda.
They rap about killing a cracker, or the police, and the Liberals simply deduce it to artistic expression.
Yet any song about killing a ****** is labelled as ignorant.
Think about it.

Current rap tends to suck.
Really, if I want someone to denigrate my gender then I'll go find some chauvists and proclaim that I'm not planning on being a housewife, I don't want to walk into a store and hear some guy going off about his "ho's" gangster rap and pop music have to be among the lowest forms of expression.

Don't get me wrong there is some good rap out there... it's just that most of the good shit was made in the 80s/early 90s.

Also, the whole frivilous lawsuits these rappers launch against one another for steaing "beats" while they "sample" good songs... can't these people come up with their own music? I mean, it would be one thing if they actually sang, but no, they talk to music (if you count a repetitive drum beat as music)

I like some of the music, mostly Ice-T, Onyx and stuff like that, and really love good grafitti.
But what the fuck happened to Hip-Hop? 95% nowadays is absolutely horrible, with unneccessary smoothy background choirs, dumb mysogynistic lyrics and not even rapped anymore. It merges with that crappy R'n'B like there is no tomorrow. If it wasnt for the new Beastie Boys album i would lose my faith in Hip Hop altogether. :rolleyes:

I think the fact that your faith in hip-hop is being salvaged the 80's novelty act of a bunch of white jewish guys should probably ruin your faith in it by itself.

As for your complaints about modern rap music. When rap got started it was something that mostly went on in basements and underground clubs. People would take one or two seconds of music from lots of songs. Over a hundred sometimes. Once it became popular the owners of the rights of those songs started demanding credit and money for their contributions. The music law never kept pace with the medium. No one can afford to make music that way and pay for it anymore. Even if they could do it, it would cost them money to make an album. Now they have to rip off only one or two songs. MC Frontalot wrote a song about it called Good Olde Clyde (http://www.frontalot.com/music.html). Chuck D had an article about it on Alternet.org, but I can't find it now for the life of me.

The idiot didn't even know that rock and roll originated as a primarily black musical form and that black people lost interest in it when whites started taking it in their direction.
You've got to love metal. :)

So much classic rock is obviously blues influenced, as is some current rock, and blues also happens to be a form of music pioneered by black people.

But then along comes Sabbath with power chords.. oh my, how the harmonists of the 18th century would cringe to hear all those parallel 5ths and octaves. (ask for clarification if you have never studied 18th century harmony and are so inclined)

When I came to NS, I was checking out the enviroment of cultural tolerance of the NS and to me it seems like this fell short of my expectations. First of all one of its most famous users Kahta(no offence to you) has a ill will towards minorities and their influence(it can be examine in his RP and one of his topics). I also saw topics where the black urban culture (Rap and hip hop for example) are scorned at. I wonder if someone here likes the black urban culture? But from what I seen it seems no one seems to like it. :(

Noone seems to like it? Tons of people were defending hip hop and some rap too from Kathas hate speech.

I like some hip hop but my love is in world music liek different kinds of drumming, japanese flute, flamenco and such. I like pretty much all music except for country, and I can even tolerate a little bit of country.

Actually that was toby keith's "Courtesy of the red, white, and blue". Funny how you were talking about ignorance.

Oops. Ya, Tim McGraw was the one about the girl who only drinks whiskey, right?

I don't claim to be a font of information on country music. It is a subject on which I cherish my gradually dwindling ignorance. The basic point was that being ignorant of something is not the same as being intolerant of it, nor vice versa.

I don't like most rap, but Vanilla Ice used to make me laugh, until he 'vanished.'
He was on that show with the washed up celebs...

I can't remeber the name of it, it was on much more music (probably on vh1 in the states) he kept ranting on about how he was used by the business and was all like "I am not this guy" when they had pictures of him from his vanilla ice days. He's a bit of a drama queen it seems.

Ignorance means a lack of knowledge. Just because someone doesn't like rap or think that "urban" fashion is particularly stylish doesn't make them ignorant.

If you think that baggy pants are a poor fashion statement you may be ignorant, if you wear such clothes and have no idea that it became a fashion trend in imitation of people being sent to prison and having to make do with oversized jeans because the prison didn't have the proper size for everyone then you're ignorant and inclusive.

If the anti rap thread you're talking about is the one I remember I'd like to point out that I defended the character of rap relative to other genres, but I still don't like it. Disliking a style of music does not make you ignorant any more than liking one makes you enlightened. Do you enjoy aborigonal didgeridoo music? I doubt it.

Considering how moved you are to create a pro-rap thread I'll go out on a limb and say you don't like Tim McGraw music. If you did, it would not make you enlightened. In fact some of the most intolerant ignorant people enjoyed his line "we'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American way."

Besides, the only culture appearant in modern rap is the culture of corporate greed. Hip hop culture was more exemplified in the old albums of Public Enemy
and Grand Master Flash and the Furious Five. Their music was about more than self agrandizement. There hasn't been culture in commercial rap since MC Hammer made the scene. Ever since then the word culture is really only applicable in the sense it is used in medical labs.

I totally agree with you, almost.

Grandmaster Flash & the Furious Five, Run DMC, Public Enemy & KRS-One... they all had something to say about the world they lived in.

Is there a modern equivalent to GMF&TFF's "The Message" or even "White Lines"? Or how about Run DMC's "It's Like That"?

The only modern group that comes to mind is the Wu-Tang Clan. Even then, most of their songs weren't overly deep but a couple of songs from the album "Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers)" - namely Can It Be All So Simple and Tearz strike me as being a little deeper and more "real" than pretty much everything else out there.

Of course, I still think there is a big "real" culture out there in rap/hip-hop but you won't see it by watching TV or listening to the radio. It is still out there and still pretty much underground.

Rap/Hip hop is the blacks' tool for spreading their racist agenda.
They rap about killing a cracker, or the police, and the Liberals simply deduce it to artistic expression.
Yet any song about killing a ****** is labelled as ignorant.
Think about it.

Because of course, you're not trying to spread a racist agenda. Right?

Jealous that maybe they're doing a better job?