NationStates Jolt Archive

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=624&ncid=624&e=1&u=/ap/20050228/ap_on_sc/thinking_differently_7

"If men do have a slight advantage over women in mathematical ability, as much of the current research suggests, and there are more men at the extreme ends of the intelligence spectrum, that suggests there is a larger pool of men who can do the heavy intellectual lifting physics requires"

and my FAVORITE quote;

"Some studies also have suggested that the IQ distribution is more spread out among men. If that is true, then there are proportionately more men at the extremely brilliant end of the IQ scale — and the dull end as well. "

"There are only 10 types of men, those who understand binary and those who don't."

ROFLMAO on the binary quote

Yeah, testosterone helps with spatial reasoning skills which are important for math... what's your point?

*grumbles*
Ive always been horrible at math. But thats just me.

Yeah, that goes with plenty of other studies I've read that suggest men are typically (important clarification there) better than women at maths, spatial awareness and throwing stuff (we subconsciously know to lock our wrists apparently).

However, the studies also show the women are basically better at pretty much everything else.

Anyone want to do my AP Multivariable Calculus and advanced topics problem set and exam for me? We were doing something about polar equations, integration to find the curve and 'strophoids' today. Yea that's how I felt about halfway through the lesson while the teacher kept getting stuck on how to fina an answer to:
The graph of
y² = x²(1+x)/1-x
is called a strophoid.
a. Show that r = secθ - 2cosθ for -π/2 < θ < π/2 is a polar equation of this strophoid.
b. Find the area enclosed by the loop of this strophoid.

Intelligence tests have found that men, on average, perform better on spatial tasks that require mentally rotating or otherwise manipulating objects. Men also do better on tests of mathematical reasoning. Women tend to do better than men on tasks requiring verbal memory and distinguishing whether objects are similar or different. The relative strengths even out, so on average the sexes are of equal intelligence.


Some studies also have suggested that the IQ distribution is more spread out among men. If that is true, then there are proportionately more men at the extremely brilliant end of the IQ scale — and the dull end as well.


Ok so what is the problem? This is a generalization. It may be true but.
What exactly is the point? And is the point necessary?

It's funny, because I suck at math and am teh roxor at verbal skills. Thank God the SAT loves me. But I can still play sports dammit!

I'm horrible at math, but then, i was always really good in English, i majored in it. I found that most English majors and English teachers i knew were horrible at math, including my mom, it's who i get it from i guess...lol.

Yeah, that goes with plenty of other studies I've read that suggest men are typically (important clarification there) better than women at maths, spatial awareness and throwing stuff (we subconsciously know to lock our wrists apparently).

I suck at all of those (Though the lack of spatial awareness may have other causes at times :D). Does that make me gay?

:p

Hmm. All of these show that men are better at math than women.

But are they NATURALLY better? Are they born that way or is it a product of the way they're raised? Is the cause of it genetics or discrimination?

:-p just throwing a monkey wrench around. :fluffle: ;)

No-one able to do my maths problem yet?



fyi: f and 19.

It's funny, the top maths classes at my school were dominated by guys, the middle classes by girls (heavily too, my class had like 3 guys...) and the bottom class had only one girl.

So that does seem to bear this whole thing out doesn't it? I'm not too flash at spatial reasoning, yet maths was my best subject in school, but English and History were my favourites.

Did anyone else here sit the UMAT, the test for admission into medicine, dentistry and health sciences? It has spatial, verbal and empathetic sections. It would be interesting to compare roughly how people went...
Edit: I'll just ask the question everyone else was too embarrassed to: What's a strophoid? :p

But are they NATURALLY better? Are they born that way or is it a product of the way they're raised? Is the cause of it genetics or discrimination?

Ooh, way to throw the cat amongst the pigeons. ;)

These studies are interesting, yes, but very redundant. I have noticed from my experience that men do fill both extremes of the intellectual spectrum many times in my life.

Fantastic. Then 3 months later another professor comes out with another study that says that (example) women actually perform a slight bit BETTER than men in the field of mathematics, or that men are actually more capable of doing redundant tasks and multitasking, when testing a group of 19-year olds.

Kudos to the research if it is not faulty, but do we really need this? Are you going to rethink your life when it turns out that you are actually worse than the opposing gender in some area? Same goes for IQ's. I don't care to know mine, because it makes little difference...I am who I am, and an IQ score can never be determined because intelligence is something MUCH more complicated than can be described in a range of numbers from 0 to 200.

Well duh! It's been known for ages that men are more disposed to eing better at maths, and teh chicks are gooder at language.;)

Men also think faster, which dosen't mean we're smarter, it just means we get the wrong answer faster.:p

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

*ahem* sorry. It's just that that's exactly the opposite of what I've found in my life. All the girls I know are good with math and the guys tend to suck.

However, as the article would support... the math genius guys that I know ARE rather freakishly so.

I think guys gravitate to extremes and girls toward the middle, just in general.

It's funny, the top maths classes at my school were dominated by guys, the middle classes by girls (heavily too, my class had like 3 guys...) and the bottom class had only one girl.
Not that funny. I would expect most of the reason that the bottom tier is filled with boys is not because they are bad at maths per se, but their reading and writing skills are extremely low (I've taught 14 yr-old boys who had a reading age of 7). And without those basics, any form of learning is going to be difficult. As girls do better in these areas, they tend not to be put into the very low classes. Also boys are more likely to have learning disorders (e.g. dyslexia) and behavioural disorders (e.g. AHDH) than girls. A lot of the time it's not diagnosed and they thought of as just not very bright and shoved into the bottom class.


BTW, strophoid means 'Belt with a Twist'. It sort of looks like a piece of string that follows a path but then loops round itself before carrying on. The middle bit looks like a tear-drop. Sorry if my explanation isn't too hot. Maths is hard to describe and explain sometimes.

Hmm. All of these show that men are better at math than women.

But are they NATURALLY better? Are they born that way or is it a product of the way they're raised? Is the cause of it genetics or discrimination?

:-p just throwing a monkey wrench around. :fluffle: ;)
That's true. There was a famous study done years ago about that. Researchers dressed a baby (regardless of sex) up as either a boy or girl and asked subjects to look after it for a few minutes (they weren't told that this was in fact the test).
Nearly every subject, men and women, treated the baby differently according to what sex they were told it was. For the 'boy', nearly everyone would play with trucks, blocks etc; For the 'girl', it was dolls and reading a story to 'her'.

That said, there are physical differences between a man's and a woman's brain. A woman's verbal (LHS) and emotional (RHS) areas are closer to the Corpus Callosum (which is itself thicker than what you normally see in a man's brain). As a result, they tend (notice the word tend) to be better at expressing their emotions and understanding non-verbal information better.
It also explains how men can distant themselves from their emotions better and think solely in logical terms at times. Because the pathway between the two hemispheres is thinner, they can shut their emotional side off better.

As I said, these are only generalisations and there's always ppl who are exceptions.

It also explains how men can distant themselves from their emotions better and think solely in logical terms at times. Because the pathway between the two hemispheres is thinner, they can shut their emotional side off better.


Of course. Emotion is illogical, captain!

personaly i think guys are both geniuses and dumbasses

I mean if you put 5 guys in a room who all have IQs of 150 they will still laugh at a guy getting hit in the balls with a football

What I hate about these goddamn discussions is that someone says something like "women generally do better in English at school and here is the research to prove it" and then some other worthless asshole always pipes up about how they know a boy who is really good at English, and that therefore their personal experience with an exception somehow invalidates the proffered statistical facts.

I think there are a number of gender differences that affect perception and pychological makeup, but I also think that for the most part it doesn't actually matter. So you can prove that guys generally make better mechanics then women. So what? Does this mean women shouldn't become mechanics? Of course it doesn't. The knowledge is worthless for the most part. Sure, if its applied in a useful way (Women generally learn like this and men generally learn like this, here is the implication for education and tutoring) then yeah, go for it. But if people are just using it as an excuse for repressing women, or further consigning people in gender roles, then it isn't useful.

I also believe that any steretypes you CAN truthfully make about men and women are NOT going to be all encompassing and absolute, and that some women have more "male" brains and more stereotypically male ways of thinking, and vice versa for men. And some people's way of thinking utterly defies categorisation altogether.

If there's one thing that annoys me more then dumbasses that try to pretend that men and women are exactly the same (Usually feminists who simaltaenously, hypocritically claim that if women ruled the world there would be no war), it's the people that try to claim the differences between male and female brains are absolute. They are not and should not be treated as such. Most of the time, women act and think in a feminine way because society tells them to, and the same for males and masculinity. The more you reinforce these stereotypes, the more people will mindlessly adhere to them, and so "men and women think differently" becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

Yeah, testosterone helps with spatial reasoning skills which are important for math... what's your point?

If testosterone helps with math so much, why do football players beat up so many of the "Mathletes?"

I agree with ^^

What I hate about these goddamn discussions is that someone says something like "women generally do better in English at school and here is the research to prove it" and then some other worthless asshole always pipes up about how they know a boy who is really good at English, and that therefore their personal experience with an exception somehow invalidates the proffered statistical facts...

What really annoys me is that this is exactly what makes some people think that the phrase "the exception that proves the rule," is not a piece of incoherent gibberish used to prop up a self-evidently absurd proposition.

Well duh! It's been known for ages that men are more disposed to eing better at maths, and teh chicks are gooder at language.;)

Men also think faster, which dosen't mean we're smarter, it just means we get the wrong answer faster.:p

In the Renaissance, when language skills were seen as more important and difficult than maths skills, the consensus was that women were better at maths, men at languages... :)

personaly i think guys are both geniuses and dumbasses

I mean if you put 5 guys in a room who all have IQs of 150 they will still laugh at a guy getting hit in the balls with a football
That's so true. I used to work on farms during the Uni Summer holidays. Nearly everyone (all guys) there were like me - uni undergrads. So a good assumption to make would be that we were all above average intelligence.
However, after a week or so of living in shearer's quarters and working 10-14 hour a day doing back-breaking work, I could practically feel my IQ dropping. Within a fortnight we'd gone from intellectual discussions to laughing at the most inane shite imaginable.
I think there must be a physical law that explains this. The more guys you get together, the faster and lower the IQ drops according to the length of time they're together.
Here's an example:
Week One: 'What do you think of the current political climate?'
Week Two: 'Did you read the article in the Penthouse?'
Week Three: 'Did ya see Kelly today? He slipped over in some cowshit! Hurr Hurr Hurr!'
Luckily by then we'd usually finished and could head back into the local town and regain a semblance of culture and humanity. I often thought that if it had continued, by about week Ten, we'd have looked more like the chimps at the start of 2001.

Yeah, testosterone helps with spatial reasoning skills which are important for math... what's your point?
Actually, that sounds like a good basis for a controlled experement...

Anyone want to do my AP Multivariable Calculus and advanced topics problem set and exam for me? We were doing something about polar equations, integration to find the curve and 'strophoids' today. Yea that's how I felt about halfway through the lesson while the teacher kept getting stuck on how to fina an answer to:
Sorry, my spatial cognition got stuck when you started talking about your curves....

Whet everyone is stepping completely over is the fact that this Ivy league University magnate was forced to APOLOGIZE for noting this circumstance and may lose his job - all for stating something which is based in fact.

The political elite no longer care about fact apparently...

I think there must be a physical law that explains this. The more guys you get together, the faster and lower the IQ drops according to the length of time they're together.
Here's an example:
Week One: 'What do you think of the current political climate?'
Week Two: 'Did you read the article in the Penthouse?'
Week Three: 'Did ya see Kelly today? He slipped over in some cowshit! Hurr Hurr Hurr!'
Luckily by then we'd usually finished and could head back into the local town and regain a semblance of culture and humanity. I often thought that if it had continued, by about week Ten, we'd have looked more like the chimps at the start of 2001.

That's the same with girls though. There are certain girls I know who I won't hang out unless they're alone. They act normal one on one, odd in small groups, and completely ridiculous in large ones.

...and B0zzy...when has anyone ever cared about fact? Politics is all about kissing someone's ass...in this case...the womenfolk.

If testosterone helps with math so much, why do football players beat up so many of the "Mathletes?"

As a HC football player who took accelerated and AP classes, I must say that the people I fought with were either fellow football players, soccer players, or the "punks" of my school. Then again, there were a good number of fights at my school to begin with. We were violent for some reason.

As for the "Mathletes," perhaps I was different because I had a brain that worked, but I left them alone. They didn't inspire anger in me. I didn't talk to them outside of class, but I didn't bother them either.

...and B0zzy...when has anyone ever cared about fact? Politics is all about kissing someone's ass...in this case...the womenfolk.


If an ass must be kissed at least it is of my preferable type. Can I bounce a quarter first?

What I hate about these goddamn discussions is that someone says something like "women generally do better in English at school and here is the research to prove it" and then some other worthless asshole always pipes up about how they know a boy who is really good at English, and that therefore their personal experience with an exception somehow invalidates the proffered statistical facts.

To be honest with you, and to piss you off, I'm a guy who's great and english and history (i'm a poli sci major) and who's not that good at math and physics. ;)

Still, I don't think that invalidates the evidence, it just makes me better than the majority of my gender. People who are better at math are often blind to reality, too concerned with black or white to see the grey or to see red or some other color outside of the box. Those people are boring.

Can I bounce a quarter first?

Hey...why not? It's all in good fun.

Sorry, my spatial cognition got stuck when you started talking about your curves....

That is bad.....

Demented hamsters - yea I know what it looks like, just wondering who would take up my challenge...still doing my exam might be good, I failed last quarter >_<.

(Usually feminists who simaltaenously, hypocritically claim that if women ruled the world there would be no war)

BINGO!

If women ruled the world, it would be more violent, not less. Consider the following:

1.) Observe a cat-fight at school and a fist fight between two men. In the fist fight, there's about ten punches, and it's over. There's a chance everyone's friends again within a week. The cat-fight will not end at all. The two women will hate each other for the rest of their lives.

2.) A different country would be nuked every 28 days.

And for those of you who couldn't make out a joke if it was on the license plate of the truck that just hit you, both of the above statements were meant for giggles.

BINGO!

If women ruled the world, it would be more violent, not less. Consider the following:

1.) Observe a cat-fight at school and a fist fight between two men. In the fist fight, there's about ten punches, and it's over. There's a chance everyone's friends again within a week. The cat-fight will not end at all. The two women will hate each other for the rest of their lives.

2.) A different country would be nuked every 28 days.

And for those of you who couldn't make out a joke if it was on the license plate of the truck that just hit you, both of the above statements were meant for giggles.

...and yet while I won't touch on the second one for obvious reasons...

...the first statement does have its merit. Women are far more evil creatures.

I suck at math. I;m completely right-brained.

Am I now gay? Oh Noes!